Time To Fix Heavy Armor Meta

Nicko_Lps

NuarBlack wrote: »

No more nerfs to heavy period! Quit watering down the game and actually make Light and medium more appealing in pvp. For those that haven't been around know the nerfing heavy route hasn't worked. Heavy has been nerfed the most of all the lines. It used to have a stacking wep and spell power buff on taking damage and constitution used to be way better. It still hasn't changed the meta cause medium armor brings nothing valuable to pvp.

Medium needs better sets and better survivability passives and an armor skill that is unique and an almost a must slot. Old evasion or new isn't that. Focus on medium to fix medium.

Medium is better in pve+pvp from light. Yet you want a buff on it?

Yes medium is better, now all love heavy armor because while in light or medium 1-2 mistakes means KO.


If you think medium armor needs a buff you better L2P since its waaay better in every aspect of Elder Stamina Online.

lucky_dutch

NuarBlack wrote: »

lucky_dutch wrote: »

The problem with trying to buff medium and light (as opposed to needing heavy) is that dodging is *** in this game. Half the nastiest PvP abilities aren’t dodgeable anyway as ZOS don’t like the idea of high-skill players slaughtering noobs because they’re so good at timing their dodges.

Seems a bit of a red herring. While maybe some heavy sets specifically could be adjusted it sounds like dodge roll as the primary survival mechanic does need looked at or less emphasis put on it. I do remember the days of trying to land attacks on NB and never seeming to be able to get much to land and it wasn't that they were skillful just that major evasion used to be 25% chance and the dodge window was so long. ESO's dodge window has never been even close to something like Dark Souls on skill needed to dodge so you can quit pretending you were good. But it shouldn't be that way as eso is an MMO and latency exists. The problem came from spamming it and near 100% up time.

Medium should have better dodge rolls and needs to be a part of the armor class but if ESO is hell bent on having certain damage being un-dodgeable(another red herring problem) then medium needs more universally useful survival passives or armor skills. That's what makes heavy so much better, its passives and skills are universally useful. More resistance, health, and sustain are useful in every situation. Most pvp builds are not resistance capped and definitely not once penetration is taken into account. Shields for LA were universally useful, dodge hasn't been for awhile. So when I say buff LA and MA think outside the box, I'm not saying to double down on what already has proved not to work. Just like nerfing HA hasn't proved to work yet, only hurt pve tanks.

Firstly, you have no idea how good or not I am as dodging but I can tell you I’m no stranger to souls and have done all the cursed chalices with 1-shot mechanics on bloodborn.

Secondly, I’d agree that the dodge window is a tad generous, particularly when coming out of the dodge. The character can have returned to a standing animation but is still technically “dodging”. However, dodge as a mechanic is still pretty rubbish because half the burst mechanics out there (dawnbreakers, shalks, meteors, spin2win) completely ignore it.

I’d be perfectly comfortable with them shortening the dodge window in return for it actually being a proper dodge.

They could actually look at this as a way to balance an under-performing Armor type. For example, if Light Armor is too squishy after shield nerfs, give them an ability that turns their dodge into a short 5m blink that works against all abilities, including AoEs.

HeroOfNone

One simple battle spirit change I'd like to see tested:

Reduce healing done by 60-70% (from 50%)
Reduce health regen by 50%

Just to stop some of the yo-yo healing going on with heavy armor. I feel more adjustments are needed a top of this, but find 7th legion + troll king to be too good a combo not to go for and I don't need to stack up heals to bounce back up.

JinMori

Wait, i have a better idea, make light and medium armor more competitive, ooohhh, crazy right?

I must be a genius for thinking that, instead of nerfing until we have nothing of value, just make light and medium more competitive.

Crixus8000

HeroOfNone wrote: »

One simple battle spirit change I'd like to see tested:

Reduce healing done by 60-70% (from 50%)
Reduce health regen by 50%

Just to stop some of the yo-yo healing going on with heavy armor. I feel more adjustments are needed a top of this, but find 7th legion + troll king to be too good a combo not to go for and I don't need to stack up heals to bounce back up.

So more massive nerfs to solo play ? I think we have been nerfed enough thanks.

lucky_dutch

HeroOfNone wrote: »

One simple battle spirit change I'd like to see tested:

Reduce healing done by 60-70% (from 50%)
Reduce health regen by 50%

Just to stop some of the yo-yo healing going on with heavy armor. I feel more adjustments are needed a top of this, but find 7th legion + troll king to be too good a combo not to go for and I don't need to stack up heals to bounce back up.

Nerfing health regen actually hurts mag builds more than stam builds tbh. Templars aside, stam builds have better direct self-heal options.

HeroOfNone

Crixus8000 wrote: »

HeroOfNone wrote: »

One simple battle spirit change I'd like to see tested:

Reduce healing done by 60-70% (from 50%)
Reduce health regen by 50%

Just to stop some of the yo-yo healing going on with heavy armor. I feel more adjustments are needed a top of this, but find 7th legion + troll king to be too good a combo not to go for and I don't need to stack up heals to bounce back up.

So more massive nerfs to solo play ? I think we have been nerfed enough thanks.

"Massive nerfs"

Please elaborate how this destroys just the way you play rather than affecting the larger health of PVP and wouldn't possibly help you when fighting other heavy armor & healers. Thanks.

HeroOfNone

lucky_dutch wrote: »

HeroOfNone wrote: »

One simple battle spirit change I'd like to see tested:

Reduce healing done by 60-70% (from 50%)
Reduce health regen by 50%

Just to stop some of the yo-yo healing going on with heavy armor. I feel more adjustments are needed a top of this, but find 7th legion + troll king to be too good a combo not to go for and I don't need to stack up heals to bounce back up.

Nerfing health regen actually hurts mag builds more than stam builds tbh. Templars aside, stam builds have better direct self-heal options.

Unless they are vampires. But the aim is to evenly reduce heal methods to reduce the 50% to a 100% in a single cast we have going on. Heavy armor can do this better than most, given its health then passive.

Still requires additional balance though, like maybe something to boost crit resistance.

Crixus8000

HeroOfNone wrote: »

Crixus8000 wrote: »

HeroOfNone wrote: »

One simple battle spirit change I'd like to see tested:

Reduce healing done by 60-70% (from 50%)
Reduce health regen by 50%

Just to stop some of the yo-yo healing going on with heavy armor. I feel more adjustments are needed a top of this, but find 7th legion + troll king to be too good a combo not to go for and I don't need to stack up heals to bounce back up.

So more massive nerfs to solo play ? I think we have been nerfed enough thanks.

"Massive nerfs"

Please elaborate how this destroys just the way you play rather than affecting the larger health of PVP and wouldn't possibly help you when fighting other heavy armor & healers. Thanks.

No one is unkilable unless they are in a ball group or something stacking heals, and nerfing hp regen and healing more will nerf everyone but they will still be the same way they are as they are built for it.

If people are having issues against normal players in heavy armor and hp regen then they need to get better or up their damage.

And as a solo player we need decent heals and speed to survive. Our speed has already been nerfed into the ground, I would like to be able to heal through some of the damage too. This change would wreck solo/smallscale completely and force people into groups more than they already are.

HeroOfNone

Crixus8000 wrote: »

HeroOfNone wrote: »

Crixus8000 wrote: »

HeroOfNone wrote: »

One simple battle spirit change I'd like to see tested:

Reduce healing done by 60-70% (from 50%)
Reduce health regen by 50%

Just to stop some of the yo-yo healing going on with heavy armor. I feel more adjustments are needed a top of this, but find 7th legion + troll king to be too good a combo not to go for and I don't need to stack up heals to bounce back up.

So more massive nerfs to solo play ? I think we have been nerfed enough thanks.

"Massive nerfs"

Please elaborate how this destroys just the way you play rather than affecting the larger health of PVP and wouldn't possibly help you when fighting other heavy armor & healers. Thanks.

No one is unkilable unless they are in a ball group or something stacking heals, and nerfing hp regen and healing more will nerf everyone but they will still be the same way they are as they are built for it.

If people are having issues against normal players in heavy armor and hp regen then they need to get better or up their damage.

And as a solo player we need decent heals and speed to survive. Our speed has already been nerfed into the ground, I would like to be able to heal through some of the damage too. This change would wreck solo/smallscale completely and force people into groups more than they already are.

"If they build for it"

Correct, player wouldn't rely on simply troll king for self heals, instead will need use beekeeper, green pact, or ogrim's scales to get a similar effect. That means you'll need to consider giving up damage or giving up sustain sets. If your not willing to go e up either then you'll need to more carefully consider your health rather than just casting a HOT when close to 50%. It also means that other players, who's shield you can now crit on, won't be immediately at 100% if you're off on your burst execute by half a second.

This of course needs other concessions, such as better crit resistance or better ways to get resources for heavy armor, as I stated in another reply, but the knee jerk reaction that it's a "massive nerf" for just suggesting testing a change makes me question how much of a crutch health regen & self heals are to certain players you can't imagine a different meta.

NuarBlack

lucky_dutch wrote: »

Firstly, you have no idea how good or not I am as dodging but I can tell you I’m no stranger to souls and have done all the cursed chalices with 1-shot mechanics on bloodborn.

Secondly, I’d agree that the dodge window is a tad generous, particularly when coming out of the dodge. The character can have returned to a standing animation but is still technically “dodging”. However, dodge as a mechanic is still pretty rubbish because half the burst mechanics out there (dawnbreakers, shalks, meteors, spin2win) completely ignore it.

I’d be perfectly comfortable with them shortening the dodge window in return for it actually being a proper dodge.

They could actually look at this as a way to balance an under-performing Armor type. For example, if Light Armor is too squishy after shield nerfs, give them an ability that turns their dodge into a short 5m blink that works against all abilities, including AoEs.

Alright chill I'm not trying to say how good or bad you are specifically. Let me clarify. I'm just saying prior to all the nerfs to dodge and major evasion it didn't take skill to dodge roll constantly and pwn noobs. I'D 1VX small groups at the daily quest towns all the time cause I knew how to abuse the dodge mechanic and they didn't. Dodge roll and major evasion were busted and ZOS was right to fix it. The problem is they didn't adjust the medium armor skill line to compensate. I'm also saying the dodge window does need to account for latency since it is an mmo, so it needs to be more generous. It's why the pvp in souls games is trash cause latency Cant handle the speed, I frames, and hitboxes of those games. My point is that while dodge needs to be a part of the medium armor survival kit it cant be all of it given the changes made to the game over the years that has severely decreased the effectiveness of dodge. The new evasion tries to do this since as you pointed out AOEs have been made undodgeable and are common in burst combos. The problem with the new evasion is that it already existed and wasn't good enough before so why would it be good enough now? If blade cloak wasn't a must slot then shuffle won't be either. And medium will still lag behind as heavy and FM will be superior in almost every situation.

Crixus8000

HeroOfNone wrote: »

"If they build for it"

Correct, player wouldn't rely on simply troll king for self heals, instead will need use beekeeper, green pact, or ogrim's scales to get a similar effect. That means you'll need to consider giving up damage or giving up sustain sets. If your not willing to go e up either then you'll need to more carefully consider your health rather than just casting a HOT when close to 50%. It also means that other players, who's shield you can now crit on, won't be immediately at 100% if you're off on your burst execute by half a second.

This of course needs other concessions, such as better crit resistance or better ways to get resources for heavy armor, as I stated in another reply, but the knee jerk reaction that it's a "massive nerf" for just suggesting testing a change makes me question how much of a crutch health regen & self heals are to certain players you can't imagine a different meta.

Your idea would make hp regen completely useless, the sets you mentioned already aren't good, they don't give enough heals anyway, and with your change would be trash. The only good source of hp regen is tk, but that would be a worse choice than bloodspawn and other monster sets if hp regen was nerfed.

And you say healing is a crutch ? Well how else are people supposed to survive ? And yes big surprise that solo/smallascale need decent healing when we don't have multiple healbots doing it for us.....

lucky_dutch

NuarBlack wrote: »

lucky_dutch wrote: »

Firstly, you have no idea how good or not I am as dodging but I can tell you I’m no stranger to souls and have done all the cursed chalices with 1-shot mechanics on bloodborn.

Secondly, I’d agree that the dodge window is a tad generous, particularly when coming out of the dodge. The character can have returned to a standing animation but is still technically “dodging”. However, dodge as a mechanic is still pretty rubbish because half the burst mechanics out there (dawnbreakers, shalks, meteors, spin2win) completely ignore it.

I’d be perfectly comfortable with them shortening the dodge window in return for it actually being a proper dodge.

They could actually look at this as a way to balance an under-performing Armor type. For example, if Light Armor is too squishy after shield nerfs, give them an ability that turns their dodge into a short 5m blink that works against all abilities, including AoEs.

Alright chill I'm not trying to say how good or bad you are specifically. Let me clarify. I'm just saying prior to all the nerfs to dodge and major evasion it didn't take skill to dodge roll constantly and pwn noobs. I'D 1VX small groups at the daily quest towns all the time cause I knew how to abuse the dodge mechanic and they didn't. Dodge roll and major evasion were busted and ZOS was right to fix it. The problem is they didn't adjust the medium armor skill line to compensate. I'm also saying the dodge window does need to account for latency since it is an mmo, so it needs to be more generous. It's why the pvp in souls games is trash cause latency Cant handle the speed, I frames, and hitboxes of those games. My point is that while dodge needs to be a part of the medium armor survival kit it cant be all of it given the changes made to the game over the years that has severely decreased the effectiveness of dodge. The new evasion tries to do this since as you pointed out AOEs have been made undodgeable and are common in burst combos. The problem with the new evasion is that it already existed and wasn't good enough before so why would it be good enough now? If blade cloak wasn't a must slot then shuffle won't be either. And medium will still lag behind as heavy and FM will be superior in almost every situation.

I agree that they have to be more generous with reaction times due to latency but there could be a happy medium whereby some or all users can dodge AoEs yet the dodge i-frames aren’t so generous that it’s abusive. Remember also that back to back dodging drains stamina very fast!

Regarding whether shuffle is good enough with the new major evasion, its better than blade cloak because it’s a snare break but the value of that is diminished significantly by the existence of FM. Snare break isn’t unique to medium users, anyone (even mag classes) with a 2h can access it.

The problem they have is that if they nerf FM, the 2h skill line starts to look pretty weak compared to dw. It’s a vicious circle.

The reality is that short of major changes to a multitude of skills or a rework of the dodge mechanic, you can’t easily buff medium up to heavies level. Resistance is always going to trump avoidance unless the avoidance is reliable. If you’ve ever tried to duel a heavy Spin2Win Stamsorc as a medium Stamblade without a shade up, you will understand what I’m talking about.

HeroOfNone

Crixus8000 wrote: »

HeroOfNone wrote: »

"If they build for it"

Correct, player wouldn't rely on simply troll king for self heals, instead will need use beekeeper, green pact, or ogrim's scales to get a similar effect. That means you'll need to consider giving up damage or giving up sustain sets. If your not willing to go e up either then you'll need to more carefully consider your health rather than just casting a HOT when close to 50%. It also means that other players, who's shield you can now crit on, won't be immediately at 100% if you're off on your burst execute by half a second.

This of course needs other concessions, such as better crit resistance or better ways to get resources for heavy armor, as I stated in another reply, but the knee jerk reaction that it's a "massive nerf" for just suggesting testing a change makes me question how much of a crutch health regen & self heals are to certain players you can't imagine a different meta.

Your idea would make hp regen completely useless, the sets you mentioned already aren't good, they don't give enough heals anyway, and with your change would be trash. The only good source of hp regen is tk, but that would be a worse choice than bloodspawn and other monster sets if hp regen was nerfed.

And you say healing is a crutch ? Well how else are people supposed to survive ? And yes big surprise that solo/smallascale need decent healing when we don't have multiple healbots doing it for us.....

The sets are used in some one note tanky builds, but typically not in solo builds because as you say: "The only good source of hp regen is tk" and on top of that, healing would out perform if just HP regen were reduced. hence suggesting lower healing across the board.

And to clarify better, single cast ability skills to heal yourself from 50% to 100% is feeling like a crutch. one cast of vigor with TK on and you'll be up to max in no time, some even in 25% range. Where in other builds you have to cast multiple heals, use abilities to damage and heal rather than simply out damage, and more carefully block.If a build can do a lot of mitigation, healing, and damage, and sustain, its great, use it. But when we talk about removing one of those pillars don't act so surprised. We have few builds right now because certain things are over performing, so things getting adjusted or tested shouldn't mean the sky is falling.

Crixus8000

HeroOfNone wrote: »

And to clarify better, single cast ability skills to heal yourself from 50% to 100% is feeling like a crutch. one cast of vigor with TK on and you'll be up to max in no time, some even in 25% range. Where in other builds you have to cast multiple heals, use abilities to damage and heal rather than simply out damage, and more carefully block.If a build can do a lot of mitigation, healing, and damage, and sustain, its great, use it. But when we talk about removing one of those pillars don't act so surprised. We have few builds right now because certain things are over performing, so things getting adjusted or tested shouldn't mean the sky is falling.

I play no cp, it's very different from cp pvp. One bleed char can output so much dmg, one vigor alone with tk is pathetic healing, you need much more than that and a lot of tankiness too. So I can't understand why you want to nerf the healing but leave damage alone when I see numbers like 23k zaans, 12k snipes, 10k bleeds, multiple proc sets doing ult level damage ect

Yesterday I was hit with an 11k heavy attack lol, but I guess my vigor doing 1.2k a sec is too strong...

The only time healing is that strong is when a group has a dedicated healer, so why nerf everyone else that much ? If you struggle against healing then get more damage or use major defile...

IZZEFlameLash

Yeah, try play HA as a mag and tell me how hard you hit. Because you won't ever hit as hard as stam HA users or magicka LA users. HA itself is not going to make you a sustain god/monster with dps. But, by all means, go ahead with funny stories.

NuarBlack

lucky_dutch wrote: »

NuarBlack wrote: »

lucky_dutch wrote: »

Firstly, you have no idea how good or not I am as dodging but I can tell you I’m no stranger to souls and have done all the cursed chalices with 1-shot mechanics on bloodborn.

Secondly, I’d agree that the dodge window is a tad generous, particularly when coming out of the dodge. The character can have returned to a standing animation but is still technically “dodging”. However, dodge as a mechanic is still pretty rubbish because half the burst mechanics out there (dawnbreakers, shalks, meteors, spin2win) completely ignore it.

I’d be perfectly comfortable with them shortening the dodge window in return for it actually being a proper dodge.

They could actually look at this as a way to balance an under-performing Armor type. For example, if Light Armor is too squishy after shield nerfs, give them an ability that turns their dodge into a short 5m blink that works against all abilities, including AoEs.

Alright chill I'm not trying to say how good or bad you are specifically. Let me clarify. I'm just saying prior to all the nerfs to dodge and major evasion it didn't take skill to dodge roll constantly and pwn noobs. I'D 1VX small groups at the daily quest towns all the time cause I knew how to abuse the dodge mechanic and they didn't. Dodge roll and major evasion were busted and ZOS was right to fix it. The problem is they didn't adjust the medium armor skill line to compensate. I'm also saying the dodge window does need to account for latency since it is an mmo, so it needs to be more generous. It's why the pvp in souls games is trash cause latency Cant handle the speed, I frames, and hitboxes of those games. My point is that while dodge needs to be a part of the medium armor survival kit it cant be all of it given the changes made to the game over the years that has severely decreased the effectiveness of dodge. The new evasion tries to do this since as you pointed out AOEs have been made undodgeable and are common in burst combos. The problem with the new evasion is that it already existed and wasn't good enough before so why would it be good enough now? If blade cloak wasn't a must slot then shuffle won't be either. And medium will still lag behind as heavy and FM will be superior in almost every situation.

I agree that they have to be more generous with reaction times due to latency but there could be a happy medium whereby some or all users can dodge AoEs yet the dodge i-frames aren’t so generous that it’s abusive. Remember also that back to back dodging drains stamina very fast!

Regarding whether shuffle is good enough with the new major evasion, its better than blade cloak because it’s a snare break but the value of that is diminished significantly by the existence of FM. Snare break isn’t unique to medium users, anyone (even mag classes) with a 2h can access it.

The problem they have is that if they nerf FM, the 2h skill line starts to look pretty weak compared to dw. It’s a vicious circle.

The reality is that short of major changes to a multitude of skills or a rework of the dodge mechanic, you can’t easily buff medium up to heavies level. Resistance is always going to trump avoidance unless the avoidance is reliable. If you’ve ever tried to duel a heavy Spin2Win Stamsorc as a medium Stamblade without a shade up, you will understand what I’m talking about.

I would love to make everything dodgeable again given that passive dodge is being removed from the game and the cost increase to consecutive dodge has been implemented. The non dodgeable abilities are over kill and do lower the skill floor, so I agree. Problem is I don't see ZOS going back on one of their efforts to standardize things like they did with making all AOE undodgeable and purposely making other skills undogeable as well. My best hope is that they realize all these changes to core game mechanics have disproportionately affected medium armor. Doubtful as they seem oblivious to how changing shields will affect light, but maybe in a few patches/dlc they will finally come around.

And I know the pain, all my stam toons still run medium, Stam sorc included. Think im the only one that hasn't jumped on the heavy ravager spin to win train still chillin in my briarheart and Automaton. I have been running blade cloak with mixed results which is why I'm not super hopeful for the new evasion.

bardx86

Kadoin wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

Banana wrote: »

Its only going to get worse with all the shield changes. I was light now im thinking heavy.

Next patch there is ZERO reason to wear light armor, unless they increase cost reduction by 1% per piece to actually justify the shield nerf. Since magicka will no longer be "safe at a distance" or "shielded up" all the time, the skill cost is ridiculous even in light, and if heavy can give you enough defense to not have to cast shields/heal 2-3 times or more in the same battle (when these skills cost around 4K+ EACH), then essentially heavy is even better than light in sustain. The penetration and crit become the only things that matter, but considering PvP even now is dominated by tank builds that do damage, I highly doubt any of the light armor passives will outweigh he benefits of heavy in nearly every PvP build.

1) When was that ever the case? People used gap closers on many builds. Then they were nerfed but swift was introduced. Now swift, snare immunity, maj Expedition and speed pots get nerfed as well. And if I can believe in "magbuilds can't afford to use speed pots" (beside the glaring fact that ling. health + mE pots are a thing that don't benefit stamina over mag), this should slow down chasers. But people will probably go back to use the still damage-nerfed gap closers.

2) Fun fact: Heavy grants neither crit nor pen. But light and medium do.

But if you ask me, shield costs should be lowered to meet the smaller size and give incentive to run light. Mag should get a snare removal outside of purge and mist form. Medium's sprint passive should be changed to movement speed (but % lowered, maybe) and gap closers should get a bit of a range reduction, maybe to 15-18 meters?

Shield costs reduced for light to solve its balance v. heavy? Yeah, you obviously haven't logged onto the PTS and used light armor. Speed increase for medium...when the entire patch was aimed at lowering speed because the game bugs out? Really? Nothing more needs to be said.

EDIT: Before someone cries and says its baiting, let me expound on why its dumb. #1 no passive for ANY armor tree right now specifically targets certain skills for it to be usable. None. Armor passives are available and useful at all times. This is exactly what makes heavy better than both medium and light: the passives are simply better to have on all the time, at least in PvP.

To suggest crit and pen actually are game changers when in light vs heavy is just silly. If anything the only reason to wear light is cost reduction. The crit is useful if you are a healer, but considering the change to healing ward, it's simply not going to be as good as having damage reduction 100% of the time. No, nope, not gonna happen.

I don't know anyone that tremendously benefits from either of those stats in general in PvP. You can show some streamtard running around 1vXing idiots, but the problems is that streamers manufacture footage. What they don't show you is what really matters: how they die. Here's an example: some guy might use a somewhat tanky DK LA build where he whips someone three times and they die. Now, that guy he whipped we know nothing about, but what we do know is that its very unlikely anyone with a brain or decent build would die in 3 flame lashes. No one. And certainly not anyone with 33K+ resist, greater than 26K HP, and more than 3K crit resist.

Okay, why does any of this matter? Simple. The guy's build looks good on paper and on video, however I guarantee you when these LA builds start to face enemies with more resist, all of them crumble. The reason is very simple: because in LA you have to sacrifice too much to gain either defense, damage, healing, or sustain. You can do two but not both. Yet, all stam builds can do it all, and at worse only one thing needs to be sacrificed. It's not surprising they don't see a reason to use medium when heavy is not much more different AND gives health, more resist, and depending on your build more sustain.

On live, most LA build crutch on shields and the fact they don't need to stack resist to be able to gain damage and sustain, no healing or healing and sustain, no damage. That effectively only left one weakness compared to stam: having to sacrifice for a stam pool, we cannot forget this weakness of LA builds. Now, in this patch ZOS decided to nerf shields for LA users overall. Now with the changes, its back to TWO. None of the passives ZOS has added to LA address defense, damage, healing, or sustain. None of the passives address roll cost, or break free. As a result the only logical thing to do will be to move to heavy where you can at least get health + defense in resistance and longer shields. I will even wager, that if medium gets the buff you want to speed, magicka builds might move there instead. Even on live you can run a magicka build in medium, in pvp, with success right now. In the future, though, 25% damage reduction, lower roll cost, lower spint, sprint speed increase would be TOO good to pass up. Add movement speed and LA has no place in the armor competition anymore.

What I find interesting is that you can find a fault with medium, that is going to still be good and in some cases better, yet are too blind to see a glaring problem with light? Reading the forums I can see how ZOS comes to the stupidest conclusions when it comes to balance.

Amazing post. Truth!

Miswar

In regards of the PvP this heavy armour meta is big joke.

Simple solution for this...

If you use 1-2 piece heavy armour = No change to dps
If you wear 5 piece heavy armour = -50% of the dps no matter if you are stamina or magica character.

You want to play as tank? Than so be it and the above pretty much makes you an tank.

Also this would NOT impact PvE side and would definately solve hell of a lot of nonsense from PvP.

This also would mean that you actually would need learn to play the damn game instead just been carried by gear.

Leave the healing as it is... they can still run around towers feeling op but guess what they really are just running and not hitting like a truck as they are now in terms of dps.

All of this would result people wearing medium and light gears... would make battles much more fluent etc.

This heavy amour nonsense has made so mamy people getting bored by PvP...and yes lag is not worst culprit eventhough it is obnoxious too.

Chilly-McFreeze

Miswar wrote: »

In regards of the PvP this heavy armour meta is big joke.

Simple solution for this...

If you use 1-2 piece heavy armour = No change to dps
If you wear 5 piece heavy armour = -50% of the dps no matter if you are stamina or magica character.

You want to play as tank? Than so be it and the above pretty much makes you an tank.

Also this would NOT impact PvE side and would definately solve hell of a lot of nonsense from PvP.

This also would mean that you actually would need learn to play the damn game instead just been carried by gear.

Leave the healing as it is... they can still run around towers feeling op but guess what they really are just running and not hitting like a truck as they are now in terms of dps.

All of this would result people wearing medium and light gears... would make battles much more fluent etc.

This heavy amour nonsense has made so mamy people getting bored by PvP...and yes lag is not worst culprit eventhough it is obnoxious too.

Sure thing. Also add +50% damage taken to anyone wearing a bedsheat? You grossly overestimate how much resistance heavy gives. Not nearly enough to justify 50% dmg nerf. Heavy passives are nothing to write home about. Fix some specific sets and see how that plays out.

You don't want balance, you only want to replace one meta with another by killing an entire armor class.

Miswar

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Miswar wrote: »

In regards of the PvP this heavy armour meta is big joke.

Simple solution for this...

If you use 1-2 piece heavy armour = No change to dps
If you wear 5 piece heavy armour = -50% of the dps no matter if you are stamina or magica character.

You want to play as tank? Than so be it and the above pretty much makes you an tank.

Also this would NOT impact PvE side and would definately solve hell of a lot of nonsense from PvP.

This also would mean that you actually would need learn to play the damn game instead just been carried by gear.

Leave the healing as it is... they can still run around towers feeling op but guess what they really are just running and not hitting like a truck as they are now in terms of dps.

All of this would result people wearing medium and light gears... would make battles much more fluent etc.

This heavy amour nonsense has made so mamy people getting bored by PvP...and yes lag is not worst culprit eventhough it is obnoxious too.

Sure thing. Also add +50% damage taken to anyone wearing a bedsheat? You grossly overestimate how much resistance heavy gives. Not nearly enough to justify 50% dmg nerf. Heavy passives are nothing to write home about. Fix some specific sets and see how that plays out.

Yes. I agree that is based upon the sets. However they are not going to fix those so what's left?

You can still get +2k dps even with that -50% penalty...that pretty decent damage output for a TANK as heavy armour sets should be.

I have no problems with these heavy armour trolls in general but I do and many others do when these builds hit +4k weapon damage... it is absurd, broken etc.

By penalizing the damage output it makes you an tank as it should be.... there was a time when the pvp had various builds but nomore.

It is also fact that most of these players are carried by their gears. Have you seen how many of these builds are there now? It is also absurd.

That simple solution would solve hell a lot of issues. Also it would actually help those people that want play 1vsX style since there would not be these absurd amount dps tanks as it is now.

The game itself would start actually be learn to play game where skills matter NOT just the gears.

I have played a lot with my heavy armour stamblade lately and the dps, survivavibility etc etc is joke. You can do so much with pretty much no effort at all.

There is no chanve in hell that you will have the survivability and dps without this broken heavy armour set bulds.

PvP is heavy armour spin to win circus at the moment and population is declining... that good for the game? No it is definately not. Saying otherwise is a lie.

Crixus8000

Miswar wrote: »

Yes. I agree that is based upon the sets. However they are not going to fix those so what's left?

I have no problems with these heavy armour trolls in general but I do and many others do when these builds hit +4k weapon damage... it is absurd, broken etc.

4k weapon dmg is easy to get, even not wearing meta heavy sets. And people seem to think heavy = tank for some reason. Heavy is just a different playstyle, more brawler in your face type there is no reason you shouldn't be able to deal good damage in heavy.

Miswar wrote: »

By penalizing the damage output it makes you an tank as it should be.... there was a time when the pvp had various builds but nomore.

It is also fact that most of these players are carried by their gears. Have you seen how many of these builds are there now? It is also absurd.

People always have been and always will be carried by gear, but even meta heavy sets carry way less than proc sets, they are basically free dmg you get from just doing light atatcks.

Miswar wrote: »

That simple solution would solve hell a lot of issues. Also it would actually help those people that want play 1vsX style since there would not be these absurd amount dps tanks as it is now.

No it would make heavy armor completely useless in pvp, no one would ever use it. And it would make 1vx much harder not easier. You need decent tankiness to survive 1vx because some things you can't avoid with skill.

Miswar wrote: »

The game itself would start actually be learn to play game where skills matter NOT just the gears.

Skill already matters, you don't become a god from equiping heavy, people really overestimate it. But like I said, there is so many things in this game that skill can't save you from. The countless list of bugs that occur every day, the proc sets that give the enemy free dmg, dysncs, lag and much more, skill only gets you so far no matter how good you are. Like you could be the best player in the world, you would still lose a 1v1 to dumb things like sprint bug and being unable to break free ect.

Miswar wrote: »

I have played a lot with my heavy armour stamblade lately and the dps, survivavibility etc etc is joke. You can do so much with pretty much no effort at all.

There is no chanve in hell that you will have the survivability and dps without this broken heavy armour set bulds.

PvP is heavy armour spin to win circus at the moment and population is declining... that good for the game? No it is definately not. Saying otherwise is a lie.

I have no issue at all with spin2win or heavy builds at all, I die much more to groups of players with full proc set builds and snipe spammers in the back. If the game wasn't flooded with bugs and lag then medium would be a much better choice than it currently is, and the dumb sneak passive than only benefits stamblades could actually be made useful too.

Maura_Neysa

Miswar wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Miswar wrote: »

In regards of the PvP this heavy armour meta is big joke.

Simple solution for this...

If you use 1-2 piece heavy armour = No change to dps
If you wear 5 piece heavy armour = -50% of the dps no matter if you are stamina or magica character.

You want to play as tank? Than so be it and the above pretty much makes you an tank.

Also this would NOT impact PvE side and would definately solve hell of a lot of nonsense from PvP.

This also would mean that you actually would need learn to play the damn game instead just been carried by gear.

Leave the healing as it is... they can still run around towers feeling op but guess what they really are just running and not hitting like a truck as they are now in terms of dps.

All of this would result people wearing medium and light gears... would make battles much more fluent etc.

This heavy amour nonsense has made so mamy people getting bored by PvP...and yes lag is not worst culprit eventhough it is obnoxious too.

Sure thing. Also add +50% damage taken to anyone wearing a bedsheat? You grossly overestimate how much resistance heavy gives. Not nearly enough to justify 50% dmg nerf. Heavy passives are nothing to write home about. Fix some specific sets and see how that plays out.

Yes. I agree that is based upon the sets. However they are not going to fix those so what's left?

You can still get +2k dps even with that -50% penalty...that pretty decent damage output for a TANK as heavy armour sets should be.

I have no problems with these heavy armour trolls in general but I do and many others do when these builds hit +4k weapon damage... it is absurd, broken etc.

By penalizing the damage output it makes you an tank as it should be.... there was a time when the pvp had various builds but nomore.

It is also fact that most of these players are carried by their gears. Have you seen how many of these builds are there now? It is also absurd.

That simple solution would solve hell a lot of issues. Also it would actually help those people that want play 1vsX style since there would not be these absurd amount dps tanks as it is now.

The game itself would start actually be learn to play game where skills matter NOT just the gears.

I have played a lot with my heavy armour stamblade lately and the dps, survivavibility etc etc is joke. You can do so much with pretty much no effort at all.

There is no chanve in hell that you will have the survivability and dps without this broken heavy armour set bulds.

PvP is heavy armour spin to win circus at the moment and population is declining... that good for the game? No it is definately not. Saying otherwise is a lie.

Where exactly is it written that Heavy Armor should do no damage? Its actually the other way around, Heavy Armor should do the most damage, just slowly.
What is missing from Medium and Light is movement speed, attack speed, regen. Those are the stats that should be doing more. While Heavy is slow and tanky.

However, none of that matters, because the problem isn't the Armor at all. The problem is that because of ZoS performance the only kind of defense is Reactive. Proactive defense is just not an option, but that is how Light and Medium should work. Light Armor was viable because Shields let you run both proactive and reactive defense. Light Armor got movement speed buffs and shield nerfs, so maybe it will survive. But because of the Dodge change than Medium just got a straight nerf.

But until ZoS fixes performance issues, nothing will change. And I dont just mean lag, I mean Sprint Bug, Break Free not breaking, Desynic Snipes. There are a lot of pieces going on that mean you have to be able to eat the damage, avoiding it in the first place just isn't an option.

Miswar

Youd do NOT that amount of tankiness when your opponents are not pretty much all tanks.

That would NOT kill armour class by any means. I mean in PvE.. tanks run heavy armours and only tanks.. why because heavy armour builds should be tanks.

Why should PvP has these armour builds be DPS tanks? It makes no sense whatsoever.

Ofcourse you can get more than 4k dps on medium armours. Why is not as popular?

Well.. survivability... and to say that currently people are not carried by their in example: 7th legion + Fury + Troll kings is a lie-

I have been playing this almost 4 years now and the above is gotten worse and worse every single patch.

Now with nerfmire DLC we are reaching new level! (Yeah, I have said it elsewhere that once that dlc hits live -> long ESO break starts).

Have you bothered to check how many HEAVY armour Stam wardens are people building at the moment?

Lol... why are people doing that? You do know the answer just like me. To say that it takes a lot skill to run heavy armour metas and that survivability is not very big factor is also an lie.

As said I personally feel that my heavy stamblade is broken with the current system... is it easy to get ap? Extremely easy compared to medium set.

We can go about this all night and I base my conclusion to actual gameplay not just anything else.

There still would be heavy armours around since they do have their use and some people like to play debuff tanks etc.

I mean we are forcing light armour build to jump into heavy armours... medium builds are rare... etc.

That solution would not affect PvE whatsoever which other fixes would. So simple and decisive action that actually works.

ezio45

Anti_Virus wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

Its time to do something about heavy armor builds with high damage, Players in 5-7 heavy shouldnt be able to take players in light or medium armor.

A great way to do this without effecting heavy armor healer? Add to battle spirit that every piece of heavy armor after 1 reduces spell and physical pen by 3k ish

At 3k reduced pen a player wearing 5 pc of heavy will be down 15k pen and thats the average amount of penetration you can get out of heavy armor build. They wont be able to kill anything, which is how TANKS SHOULD BE . Bleed and oblivion dmg might still be a problem but this should do a decent job of fixing things.

Heavy healers will be fine because pen doesnt effect heals

People like you complain about heavy armor killing people, but when an actual Tank comes around and DOESN'T kill people you guys still whine that they are unkillable and slow down the gameplay, Which is it?

i have no problem with tanks doing tanks jobs, cc's, negates, res's, permas, all fine

Nicko_Lps

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Miswar wrote: »

In regards of the PvP this heavy armour meta is big joke.

Simple solution for this...

If you use 1-2 piece heavy armour = No change to dps
If you wear 5 piece heavy armour = -50% of the dps no matter if you are stamina or magica character.

You want to play as tank? Than so be it and the above pretty much makes you an tank.

Also this would NOT impact PvE side and would definately solve hell of a lot of nonsense from PvP.

This also would mean that you actually would need learn to play the damn game instead just been carried by gear.

Leave the healing as it is... they can still run around towers feeling op but guess what they really are just running and not hitting like a truck as they are now in terms of dps.

All of this would result people wearing medium and light gears... would make battles much more fluent etc.

This heavy amour nonsense has made so mamy people getting bored by PvP...and yes lag is not worst culprit eventhough it is obnoxious too.

Sure thing. Also add +50% damage taken to anyone wearing a bedsheat? You grossly overestimate how much resistance heavy gives. Not nearly enough to justify 50% dmg nerf. Heavy passives are nothing to write home about. Fix some specific sets and see how that plays out.

You don't want balance, you only want to replace one meta with another by killing an entire armor class.

Dont close your eyes, its not the resistance that makes heavy armor strong, its all the passive package.

Block cost reduction
Healing recieved
Max HP
Resourse returns
resistances.

When a glassy sorc duels a glassy nightblade whoever does 1 or 2 silly mistakes max ends up dead, now these two sacrifice tankiness to get damage, when they both hit a BDoS heavy armor tankling that stacks 3+ heals and they cant get him down this is not balanced


You want damage? Sacrifice tankiness and get some, being a tank a deal amazing bursts of damage and INSANE amounts of healing and HoT's almost as good as glassy builds while they fly like F-15's is hilarious, its the solution that ZoS found for EX-skyrim low reflect players since being in heavy allow's you to make several mistakes before end up dead.


When people cant play a rewarding build with a high risk its their problem, they should stop whining on the forums since they cant play it and realize its their fault and their lack of understanding.

Ive said before, one of the most famous warden dps tanklings in EU/PC/VIVEC while magsorc/magblade mode survived me for like 2-3 mins, and i do not consider myself a good player. While on Tank mode he happyly tanks around 10 people and manage to kill some while running like flash gordon + stacking several heals on him.

I do agree with Misswar in the damage debuff while wearing heavy armor, but they should have their insane healing to not cause problems in PvE.

Heavy armor + sword and board is not pro, the exactly opposite.

IZZEFlameLash

ezio45 wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

Its time to do something about heavy armor builds with high damage, Players in 5-7 heavy shouldnt be able to take players in light or medium armor.

A great way to do this without effecting heavy armor healer? Add to battle spirit that every piece of heavy armor after 1 reduces spell and physical pen by 3k ish

At 3k reduced pen a player wearing 5 pc of heavy will be down 15k pen and thats the average amount of penetration you can get out of heavy armor build. They wont be able to kill anything, which is how TANKS SHOULD BE . Bleed and oblivion dmg might still be a problem but this should do a decent job of fixing things.

Heavy healers will be fine because pen doesnt effect heals

People like you complain about heavy armor killing people, but when an actual Tank comes around and DOESN'T kill people you guys still whine that they are unkillable and slow down the gameplay, Which is it?

i have no problem with tanks doing tanks jobs, cc's, negates, res's, permas, all fine

Actually you do have problem with those. I think I remember you complaining about those back in the days. Most NBs did as well. Which was why block was nerfed in the first place.

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Miswar wrote: »

In regards of the PvP this heavy armour meta is big joke.

Simple solution for this...

If you use 1-2 piece heavy armour = No change to dps
If you wear 5 piece heavy armour = -50% of the dps no matter if you are stamina or magica character.

You want to play as tank? Than so be it and the above pretty much makes you an tank.

Also this would NOT impact PvE side and would definately solve hell of a lot of nonsense from PvP.

This also would mean that you actually would need learn to play the damn game instead just been carried by gear.

Leave the healing as it is... they can still run around towers feeling op but guess what they really are just running and not hitting like a truck as they are now in terms of dps.

All of this would result people wearing medium and light gears... would make battles much more fluent etc.

This heavy amour nonsense has made so mamy people getting bored by PvP...and yes lag is not worst culprit eventhough it is obnoxious too.

Sure thing. Also add +50% damage taken to anyone wearing a bedsheat? You grossly overestimate how much resistance heavy gives. Not nearly enough to justify 50% dmg nerf. Heavy passives are nothing to write home about. Fix some specific sets and see how that plays out.

You don't want balance, you only want to replace one meta with another by killing an entire armor class.

Dont close your eyes, its not the resistance that makes heavy armor strong, its all the passive package.

Block cost reduction
Healing recieved
Max HP
Resourse returns
resistances.

When a glassy sorc duels a glassy nightblade whoever does 1 or 2 silly mistakes max ends up dead, now these two sacrifice tankiness to get damage, when they both hit a BDoS heavy armor tankling that stacks 3+ heals and they cant get him down this is not balanced


You want damage? Sacrifice tankiness and get some, being a tank a deal amazing bursts of damage and INSANE amounts of healing and HoT's almost as good as glassy builds while they fly like F-15's is hilarious, its the solution that ZoS found for EX-skyrim low reflect players since being in heavy allow's you to make several mistakes before end up dead.


When people cant play a rewarding build with a high risk its their problem, they should stop whining on the forums since they cant play it and realize its their fault and their lack of understanding.

Ive said before, one of the most famous warden dps tanklings in EU/PC/VIVEC while magsorc/magblade mode survived me for like 2-3 mins, and i do not consider myself a good player. While on Tank mode he happyly tanks around 10 people and manage to kill some while running like flash gordon + stacking several heals on him.

I do agree with Misswar in the damage debuff while wearing heavy armor, but they should have their insane healing to not cause problems in PvE.

Heavy armor + sword and board is not pro, the exactly opposite.

LA and shield is not pro by that very logic.

Xeniph

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

Its time to do something about heavy armor builds with high damage, Players in 5-7 heavy shouldnt be able to take players in light or medium armor.

A great way to do this without effecting heavy armor healer? Add to battle spirit that every piece of heavy armor after 1 reduces spell and physical pen by 3k ish

At 3k reduced pen a player wearing 5 pc of heavy will be down 15k pen and thats the average amount of penetration you can get out of heavy armor build. They wont be able to kill anything, which is how TANKS SHOULD BE . Bleed and oblivion dmg might still be a problem but this should do a decent job of fixing things.

Heavy healers will be fine because pen doesnt effect heals

People like you complain about heavy armor killing people, but when an actual Tank comes around and DOESN'T kill people you guys still whine that they are unkillable and slow down the gameplay, Which is it?

i have no problem with tanks doing tanks jobs, cc's, negates, res's, permas, all fine

Actually you do have problem with those. I think I remember you complaining about those back in the days. Most NBs did as well. Which was why block was nerfed in the first place.

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Miswar wrote: »

In regards of the PvP this heavy armour meta is big joke.

Simple solution for this...

If you use 1-2 piece heavy armour = No change to dps
If you wear 5 piece heavy armour = -50% of the dps no matter if you are stamina or magica character.

You want to play as tank? Than so be it and the above pretty much makes you an tank.

Also this would NOT impact PvE side and would definately solve hell of a lot of nonsense from PvP.

This also would mean that you actually would need learn to play the damn game instead just been carried by gear.

Leave the healing as it is... they can still run around towers feeling op but guess what they really are just running and not hitting like a truck as they are now in terms of dps.

All of this would result people wearing medium and light gears... would make battles much more fluent etc.

This heavy amour nonsense has made so mamy people getting bored by PvP...and yes lag is not worst culprit eventhough it is obnoxious too.

Sure thing. Also add +50% damage taken to anyone wearing a bedsheat? You grossly overestimate how much resistance heavy gives. Not nearly enough to justify 50% dmg nerf. Heavy passives are nothing to write home about. Fix some specific sets and see how that plays out.

You don't want balance, you only want to replace one meta with another by killing an entire armor class.

Dont close your eyes, its not the resistance that makes heavy armor strong, its all the passive package.

Block cost reduction
Healing recieved
Max HP
Resourse returns
resistances.

When a glassy sorc duels a glassy nightblade whoever does 1 or 2 silly mistakes max ends up dead, now these two sacrifice tankiness to get damage, when they both hit a BDoS heavy armor tankling that stacks 3+ heals and they cant get him down this is not balanced


You want damage? Sacrifice tankiness and get some, being a tank a deal amazing bursts of damage and INSANE amounts of healing and HoT's almost as good as glassy builds while they fly like F-15's is hilarious, its the solution that ZoS found for EX-skyrim low reflect players since being in heavy allow's you to make several mistakes before end up dead.


When people cant play a rewarding build with a high risk its their problem, they should stop whining on the forums since they cant play it and realize its their fault and their lack of understanding.

Ive said before, one of the most famous warden dps tanklings in EU/PC/VIVEC while magsorc/magblade mode survived me for like 2-3 mins, and i do not consider myself a good player. While on Tank mode he happyly tanks around 10 people and manage to kill some while running like flash gordon + stacking several heals on him.

I do agree with Misswar in the damage debuff while wearing heavy armor, but they should have their insane healing to not cause problems in PvE.

Heavy armor + sword and board is not pro, the exactly opposite.

LA and shield is not pro by that very logic.

I wouldn't worry about Nico. He has no clue what he's talking about. For example, I am still looking for that heavy passive that reduces block cost.

Oh right, it was removed ages ago. I wouldn't give anyone your time if they can't even log into the game to have a look at the passives, before running their mouth.

Anyone who thinks passives that give:

1800 spell resistance
20% Health recovery
270 Mag/Stam every 2 seconds WHILE taking damage. (541 every 4 seconds)
10% Max Health
8% healing received
and +25% more Stam/Mag on heavy attacks

Makes it all so much more powerful than the other armors, clearly doesn't understand the game.

Chilly-McFreeze

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Miswar wrote: »

In regards of the PvP this heavy armour meta is big joke.

Simple solution for this...

If you use 1-2 piece heavy armour = No change to dps
If you wear 5 piece heavy armour = -50% of the dps no matter if you are stamina or magica character.

You want to play as tank? Than so be it and the above pretty much makes you an tank.

Also this would NOT impact PvE side and would definately solve hell of a lot of nonsense from PvP.

This also would mean that you actually would need learn to play the damn game instead just been carried by gear.

Leave the healing as it is... they can still run around towers feeling op but guess what they really are just running and not hitting like a truck as they are now in terms of dps.

All of this would result people wearing medium and light gears... would make battles much more fluent etc.

This heavy amour nonsense has made so mamy people getting bored by PvP...and yes lag is not worst culprit eventhough it is obnoxious too.

Sure thing. Also add +50% damage taken to anyone wearing a bedsheat? You grossly overestimate how much resistance heavy gives. Not nearly enough to justify 50% dmg nerf. Heavy passives are nothing to write home about. Fix some specific sets and see how that plays out.

You don't want balance, you only want to replace one meta with another by killing an entire armor class.

Dont close your eyes, its not the resistance that makes heavy armor strong, its all the passive package.

Block cost reduction
Healing recieved
Max HP
Resourse returns
resistances.

When a glassy sorc duels a glassy nightblade whoever does 1 or 2 silly mistakes max ends up dead, now these two sacrifice tankiness to get damage, when they both hit a BDoS heavy armor tankling that stacks 3+ heals and they cant get him down this is not balanced


You want damage? Sacrifice tankiness and get some, being a tank a deal amazing bursts of damage and INSANE amounts of healing and HoT's almost as good as glassy builds while they fly like F-15's is hilarious, its the solution that ZoS found for EX-skyrim low reflect players since being in heavy allow's you to make several mistakes before end up dead.


When people cant play a rewarding build with a high risk its their problem, they should stop whining on the forums since they cant play it and realize its their fault and their lack of understanding.

Ive said before, one of the most famous warden dps tanklings in EU/PC/VIVEC while magsorc/magblade mode survived me for like 2-3 mins, and i do not consider myself a good player. While on Tank mode he happyly tanks around 10 people and manage to kill some while running like flash gordon + stacking several heals on him.

I do agree with Misswar in the damage debuff while wearing heavy armor, but they should have their insane healing to not cause problems in PvE.

Heavy armor + sword and board is not pro, the exactly opposite.

Block cost reduction isn't even a passive.

That warden survived 3mins? You didn't die 3 mins either and you call yourself "not even that good".

-50% weapon dmg means smaller heals as well (I take miswar means a cut in wpn dmg instead of a maim bc of what he wrote as a reply)

Swift and almost every source of "Flash Gordon" gets nerfed by next week.

And there are more weapons than SnB.

Qbiken

That would NOT kill armour class by any means. I mean in PvE.. tanks run heavy armours and only tanks.. why because heavy armour builds should be tanks.

Heavy armor is not equal to tank (neither in PvP or PvE). Get rid of that mindset, that´s old MMO standards that doesn´t apply to ESO.
If I remember correctly, many patches ago the world record run in vDSA was done with a tank running a medium armor setup (Night Mother´s Gaze + Powerful Assault) with 17k HP. Even in this patch I´ve had tanks doing vHoF in medium armor. Tanking is about performing a certain task/role and is not determined by what armor type you use.

If you want to get rid of the heavy armor meta in PvP. Start by adjusting these sets:

• Warrior´s Fury:Issue with the set is that it gives way too much weapon damage and in CP campaigns it´s very easy to accumulate many stacks and have a high uptime on those. Especially if you´re a bit outnumbered. Reduce the amount of stacks to 20 down from 25 would balance things out a bit.
  
• 7th Legion: Issue with this set is that it procs way to easy for the amount of weapon damage it gives (no one runs 7th for the extra heal anymore). Change 7th Legion so it has a 10% chance to proc on direct damage and not all sources of damage.
  
  Other sets like Ravager and Veiled Heritance I find to be more balanced. Veiled Heritance doesn´t give an absurd amount of weapon damage and Ravager is difficult to proc unless you´re a stamplar

I want the "brawler" playstyle to be viable (I´m perfectly fine with heavy armor damage sets) but as it stands now it´s a bit too strong.