PTS Update 20 - Feedback Thread for Sorcerer

Thraben

Xsorus wrote: »

Crixus8000 wrote: »

I hate these changes so much as a stamsorc player too.

Stamsorc is already missing so many class passives, we only have a few utility skills from the class. The only 3 things that made stamsorc unique/good was speed, overload bar and dark deal. Everyone can get our special speed from 1 swift trait, overload bar is gone and you nerf our sustain so much with the dark deal change...

What do we have now ? An rng execute that no one likes ?

Dark deal nerf is the thing I hate most. The change gives the other half of the restore over 20 seconds but I tested it and multiple casts do not stack, so casting 3 dark deals wont give you 7500 stam over 20 seconds like I thought it would, just 2500. So it's just a direct nerf to our sustain and the thing that allowed us to have more build options.

That overload change is super good for Sorcs including Stam Sorcs, you're going to see more bowsorcs next patch from what I can tell as well.

Only if they didn't know how to use overload before. This "heavy overload into Dawnbreaker into steel Tornado" thing has been working for years already. We are already the strongest AoE Stam class, no need for even more.

What we need is single target burst to get something under 50% life, and the new Overload is no big improvement here.

The Dark Deal nerf is another slap in the face, but could have occured earlier given that the Psijics stole the skill and gave it to everyone.

My StamSorc HATES these changes even more than my MagSorc.

Alpheu5

SilverWF wrote: »

Alpheu5 wrote: »

qbit wrote: »

Let’s see a video of someone at ZOS completing vMA with a magsorc using only 300 CP points on PTS. Actually, it can be anyone with any build. As long as it’s magsorc. And if that’s not possible do it with CP 780.

If you can’t do that in PvE, then your nerfs are out of line. They’re wrong. And your choice of streamer for lead designer just cost you a lot of players. And earned you a very bad reputation.

@qbit How many brownie points do I win?

https://youtu.be/BzgNHphQWxY

Zero

Player of 300CP did NOT have enough experience and did NOT remember perfectly every spawn.

So your video proves nothing

Also, your lizard are is ugly AF

CP only shows how much time a person has spent killing things on that account, not their actual experience level with the content. If I bought a second account I could easily get the same gear and (begrudgingly) do it again. I've seen people below 300CP donning the Flawless Conqueror title.

Also,

Also also, don't take it seriously. I saw the comment and thought it'd be a fun thing to try. I don't expect any reliable data to be gleaned by me beating 3-year old content on a class I have 5000+ hours on with a playstyle that's barely been touched by the recent changes on the PTS.

SilverWF

I don't care.
I think, ZOS would be happier without my sub now.

All of that reminded me about some weird things happened long ago in the dead already Warhammer Online.
They got some new producer (Carrie Gouskos - I hope, you didn't hired her?) too with some "fresh and genius" ideas, that finally killed a game. Not directly - just removed last resources to the completely wrong direction.

Also, this is funny, last my long break from ESO was made right after Streak nerf. And, not joke, I found my self getting bored more and more in the past few weeks. And today I see this "awesome" changes. That's a sign...

Sorc is not my main, but I found gameplay on her is really rewarding and(!) relaxing. And I dislike significant changes (any!) that are happens with no any real reasons
God damn, I even bought a race change on my Sorc a month ago, since ZOS gave not a F about Bretons mag weakness. Lol, don't repeat my mistake - don't buy anything from ZOS - it would be ruined in 1 month.

Icarus42

Please rethink the one second delay on conjured ward zos. I can live with the overload bar being gone, shields being critted the rune cage delay, taking all my money, and sleeping with my wife... but one second delay on conjured ward is where I draw the line!!!

Dashmatt

I think the Overload change is a good idea, even though I thought it was fun and unique before - it was very clunky. I hope it is still fun and effective to use. I am hoping it will still function the same with Empower, and sets such as Elegance, Innate Axiom, Molag Kena, etc. Also, gank builds are lame and I’m not sad to see that aspect go. Does this mean we can re-evaluate Elemental Weapon working with Overload?

The damage shield changes are confusing overall. On one hand, you want to improve Light Armor, but then you make shields based on resistance, which is more beneficial for Heavy. I always thought that shields were the reason to wear light, and that reason seems to be going away. I’m not sure I understand the goal.

The confusion continues with the cast time, which absolutely ruins Hardened Ward. No one is going to try to cast an interruptible shield in combat in PvP, and it doesn’t last long enough (in duration or damage absorbed) to only be cast periodically. If you wanted to go this route, there would have to be significant changes to how shields work - and not the ones you made.

In my mind the biggest issue with shields on Live is that you can stack magicka for more powerful shields, which is also the resource that lets you cast more shields. And then all the different shields can stack completely with no penalty. Then you get these crazy shield spammers that can’t be touched by anything but oblivion damage, so people run these oblivion damage builds that make it less fun to be an average sorcerer. It’s not a great cycle.

Anyway, if it wasn’t clear from the massive pile of overwhelmingly negative feedback, the cast time change needs to be reverted so that the crit and resistance changes can be tested thoroughly, and you can see if those changes had the desired effect. If the goal is to have more people use Light instead of Heavy, I don’t think that is going to happen without additional tweaks.

I’m not sure what to say about Rune Cage at this point, except I don’t really get what y’all are doing with it. I find all the delays and dodgeable periods and maybe-damage to be excessively complicated and I probably just won’t slot it anymore. Meh.

Xsorus

Thraben wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Crixus8000 wrote: »

I hate these changes so much as a stamsorc player too.

Stamsorc is already missing so many class passives, we only have a few utility skills from the class. The only 3 things that made stamsorc unique/good was speed, overload bar and dark deal. Everyone can get our special speed from 1 swift trait, overload bar is gone and you nerf our sustain so much with the dark deal change...

What do we have now ? An rng execute that no one likes ?

Dark deal nerf is the thing I hate most. The change gives the other half of the restore over 20 seconds but I tested it and multiple casts do not stack, so casting 3 dark deals wont give you 7500 stam over 20 seconds like I thought it would, just 2500. So it's just a direct nerf to our sustain and the thing that allowed us to have more build options.

That overload change is super good for Sorcs including Stam Sorcs, you're going to see more bowsorcs next patch from what I can tell as well.

Only if they didn't know how to use overload before. This "heavy overload into Dawnbreaker into steel Tornado" thing has been working for years already. We are already the strongest AoE Stam class, no need for even more.

What we need is single target burst to get something under 50% life, and the new Overload is no big improvement here.

The Dark Deal nerf is another slap in the face, but could have occured earlier given that the Psijics stole the skill and gave it to everyone.

My StamSorc HATES these changes even more than my MagSorc.

I don't think you understand, Overload light attack works with melee weapons on PTS, you can absolutely wreck someone with something like Heroic/Bash/Light attack with it up on PTS

Hell bow is just as nasty as well....

sharquez

Shield changes involving the cast time cannot go live. You will hear this from anyone with an ounce of sense. The design philosophy of your game from the start was a departure from cool downs and cast times. Please remove this change, it should be off the table.

Thraben

Xsorus wrote: »

I don't think you understand, Overload light attack works with melee weapons on PTS, you can absolutely wreck someone with something like Heroic/Bash/Light attack with it up on PTS

Hell bow is just as nasty as well....

You need Crushing weapons to get results - Have you ever tried Crushing weapons on the Live servers like Vivec or Sotha? It´s already clunky as hell, and with an additional toggle that works like the worst of all toggles (like the Psijic healing skill), it´ll become a greater mess than the old Overload ever was.

Faint_One

dark deal instant or not？if not then RIP

Lady_Scorp72

My quick PVE only feedback re: shield changes:

So, I just tested my Pet MagSorc on the PTS in PVE, and was pleasantly surprised/relieved. As an average player who likes to solo base game dungeons to farm gear, not being able to do this anymore was my biggest concern when I read the notes. But, I had no problem when I tried a couple of dungeons tonight, and actually, I found that Hardened Ward felt significantly stronger because of the resistances buff. Also, none of the PVE bosses/mobs interrupted the cast, so it seems that may only be an issue in PVP.

That said, I really don't like the 1 second cast time. It looks and feels slow and clunky, which makes the whole rotation feel less responsive and fluid, but I was able to recast before it expires, so it never lapsed and left me vulnerable.

Crixus8000

Faint_One wrote: »

dark deal instant or not？if not then RIP

No it's not instant.

Same cast time but now you only get half the return of stam, the other half is returned over 20 seconds but the second part doesn't stack with multiple casts either so it's just a straight nerf to sustain. I hate this change so damn much.

Minno

Yea definitely remove the cast time on shields.

Crit+ penetration is enough of a setback. Or remove streak cost increase/dark deal cast time to compensate.

Dracane

LiquidPony wrote: »

Crazy conspiracy theory: given the drastic pet changes (every sorc pet cost significantly reduced, Warden bear damage nerfed) ... maybe later in PTS we're getting an update where pets persist when summoned without needing to have the ability on both bars?

None of those changes make a lick of sense otherwise. Who cares about pet skill cost when they take up so many slots that you can't reasonably run an effective LA build? Why on earth would Wardens have their only differentiating DPS skill nerfed into the ground?

Also, did some parsing on a magsorc with a variety of gear/skill setups. I guess the good news is ... sustain is a bit better and DPS seems to be a bit better as well. So there's that, anyway. Also, the massive duration of Empowered Ward means that's a skill that you can reasonably fit into a rotation which is a nice little group buff.

Stamsorc solo parse DPS is also slightly improved and sustain is slightly improved as well. Not a huge difference but noticeably better than last patch.

Pets cost has not been reduced, that was fake news. As someone who knows them very well, I will tell you that their cast cost was 3063 prior to this update and that they still cost the same amount. If you don't believe me, compare it on live and pts. I can't, as I have deleted it. It was just a fake patchnote to make Sorcerers believe they got buffed. While they as always, are the class that receives nothing but nerfs or "buffs" that nobody cares for. See bound armor.

JinMori

could have just made shield affected by crit, pen etc, but no, you either go 0 or 100%, you either make something op, or almost, or just unusable or almost.

alenae1b14_ESO

Gee zoss... My Sorcerer is a shell of she was once was

Narvuntien

Hmm there is a lot of angry people in here and I'd like to say how much of a big deal losing my overload bar was for my Sorc healer.

I am already very reliant on resto staff abilities for my healing utility then I have to double bar my twilight matriarch. So now I am a healer with 1 less ability than any other healer instead of having 2 extra abilities.

I am really going to need some healing utility added to the sorcs kit if there is going to be any reason to use a sorc healer any more?

TBois

As a stam sorc main (I haven't played mag sorc since softcaps), the main change from the patch notes that needs to be implemented before this hits live is to remove the 1 sec cast time to shields.

Please give me back my third bar.

Please give me an offensive ultimate option within the sorc toolkit that scales with my cp. A physical morph of overload/atro. You could even make the initial hit of atro physical and have the dot stay shock.

H3X0R

Ah great hit button wait 3 seconds shield casts nice game

FrancisCrawford

Xsorus wrote: »

ruikkarikun wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

So while you guys are crying about Shields; I logged in and tested it and figured out in like 10 seconds that the new Overload is going to be OP as hell.

You think sorcs kill you fast now, wait till that *** goes live.

Who are you going to kill with overload in PVE. See this is a problem. They need to change skills so they will have pvp/pve morphs.

I think it'll be used by sorcs in PVE as well

I don't think you understand how powerful it is on PTS

Take light attack damage right now that just got buffed, add an extra 8k to 10k damage to that....That's what overload does on PTS right now.

PvP wise, Stam Sorcs with Bow/Overload/Crushing weapon are going to be hella stupid.

Single-target toolbar damage of 10K or less for 24-30+ ultimate points? (Recall that you're losing ultimate regen.) 2 GCDs to get in and out of that? Hmm ...

steussy

Well ZOS here you have it the majority of the community by far does not want a cast time on shields.

ezio45

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/435931/something-id-like-to-see

just gunna place this riiiiight here, if your interested, say yes

Pulque

I need to pinpoint one thing:
with evasion change, stam shuffle will get 25% reduction to sorc's meteor and curse. Yes 25% to sorc's major burst skills. Execute is useless without enough burst. Now you really make PvP magsorc unplayable.

Shyl

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

ruikkarikun wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

So while you guys are crying about Shields; I logged in and tested it and figured out in like 10 seconds that the new Overload is going to be OP as hell.

You think sorcs kill you fast now, wait till that *** goes live.

Who are you going to kill with overload in PVE. See this is a problem. They need to change skills so they will have pvp/pve morphs.

I think it'll be used by sorcs in PVE as well

I don't think you understand how powerful it is on PTS

Take light attack damage right now that just got buffed, add an extra 8k to 10k damage to that....That's what overload does on PTS right now.

PvP wise, Stam Sorcs with Bow/Overload/Crushing weapon are going to be hella stupid.

Single-target toolbar damage of 10K or less for 24-30+ ultimate points? (Recall that you're losing ultimate regen.) 2 GCDs to get in and out of that? Hmm ...

PVE wise i think the new overload will be lot of fun. I did a quick test this morning and i can tell you that weaving 20-25k overload light attack is quite strong.
Sure we loose ultimate regen but if you use the overload morph that gives you magicka back, the sustain becomes completly trivial (i did my test using witchmother brew but bi-stat food will be completly fine).

Just to give you an idea, here is a parse i did weaving overload



The parse is totally not perfect (it's PTS so it's lagging and all that...on my usual rotation, i loose like 4k compare to live), but i think it still illustrate well that the new overload can be quite promising.

ezio45

SmackNCheese

When you added a delay to streak at the front and end, I could understand others strife at watching people streak from keep to keep, and I moved on.
When you took our 24 second wards I could see there was a problem with being able to maintain roughly 100% shield uptime, and I adapted.
When you took our frag stun, I could rationalize that it was the direction game balance was headed in and the loss could be mitigated by trading a bar space, and I farmed vDSA
When you nerfed frags damage for rune prison, I begrudgingly accepted that sometimes balance teams need to shake things up to keep a game from stagnating, and I leveled the skill for the first time in 3 years.
When you nerfed rune prison for very obvious reasons without restoring the power to frag, I was decimated as I hit 3.8k crit frags in duels, but yet I powered through because of my love for the class.
But now in patch 420, my 3+ year vigil will be coming to an end. After typing out many iterations to try and convey my sadness at the change to the identity of mag sorc I realized that it is simply no use. For a simple conversation with any person who's played the class for more than 3 months would yield the same cautionary statements that I would provide here today.

Kova

That shield change is huge...what sorc hurt you guys so bad?

EDIT:
This was as ToS friendly as I could be. I'm usually pretty level headed and reading these skill changes reminded me why I quit playing in the first place.

ALSO, what are these "feedback" threads even fetching for? Does anyone have absolutely any evidence that these do anything except keep sorc tears off the main forums?

An_An

BalticBlues wrote: »

Lylith wrote: »

i can't say anything without violating the tos, so *** it.

Exactly. This Anti-Sorc patch will make only NBs happy.
First I shelved my Templar, then my Warden, now comes my Sorc.
Good job, ZOS. Another step in direction of 100% PvP NB population.

Well... now that you've said it, we know what is getting nerfed next ...

Speaking for PvP atleast, it seems like ZOS does not understand a simple concept - Classes are what they are, unfair and optimum for certain playstyles/situations. Every one of us has been killed by every other class on any toon. There is no class which I can say completely dominates me in PvP. I get killed equally by all. I kill all equally (depending on MY toon, not theirs).

Nerfing everything just because it is doing what it was originally intended to do is not the solution. Life is unfair. Some classes will perform better than others in PvP and those same classes will have a class they will dread.

Wish they would improve the stability of the game, deal with bugs instead of trying to "fix” classes ffs ...

The way they are headed they will soon have the same abilities on every class with a different name and different animation.

Markrox

Best sorc changes since launch. Stay strong ZOS, stay strong.

GoonyGoat

A quick question: has anyone had a chance to test out the changes in content like vSP or vCR (portal run)? I cleared my rig recently so don't have PTS atm.

My feedback, based on other user input, videos, etc: The nerf is too hard with nothing given back. Duration increase means almost nothing as shields are usually dust long before they wear out. Cast time looks like it will be awkward but if it goes live (which it probably will) it's something we can adapt to.

If you guys are determined to rework shields,there are ways to do it without gutting them.

1. If stacking was an issue: 1st cast could play as normal, if you recast while a shield is active it costs more magicka / only grants half the shield / whatever
2. If the hard cast is kept, then the skill needs to be adjusted, perhaps by adding an additional HoT. This will help in moving them to a more proactive defensive skill

Also why only nerf sorc and LA shields and leave healing ward?

Another thing to consider is rework one with cast time, leave the other as an instant "oh sh*t" button.
The LA would be ideally the reworked version
Reasoning:

It will be more experienced people that will be using it as you need to get LA to lvl50 to unlock it. this means these players will/should have (at least) basic combat and mech knowledge.
The sorc class shields can be unlocked early and are a massive help to new players and casuals trying out the game.

Am sure there are way more great suggestions out there, but please don't let this go up as is.
Sorry for the long wall of text, it is coffee time!

themaddaedra

SilverWF wrote: »

@themaddaedra no, there is much easier ways to nerf shields
Like add crits and resists to them - and this is huge nerf by itself.
Or let shields values would be multiplicative (from different sources) rather than additive.
Or something else, like just raw decrease of values.

But cast time???

What are you even saying? I'm already saying removing cast time is necessary. You kinda said the same thing but started with no lol.