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Torug last minute change

Sordidfairytale
Sordidfairytale
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Torug’s Pact:
This item set now reduces the cooldown of your weapon enchantment by 30% instead of one second, and is multiplicative with the cooldown reduction of the Infused trait.
Fixed an issue where this item set’s bonus was modifying the strength and cooldown of poisons.


It had been affecting poisons since they were introduced to the game, why the sudden change? Will Assassins Guile provide a strength buff to poisons?
Edited by Sordidfairytale on August 14, 2017 6:43PM
The Vegemite Knight

"if the skeleton kills you, your dps is too low." ~STEVIL

The Elder World of WarScrollCraft Online ~joaaocaampos

Alchemy leveling
  • Sordidfairytale
    Sordidfairytale
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    It was never supposed to affect poisons. Don't incorporate bugs into your builds, and you won't have this issue.

    Doesn't answer either question. Are you baiting?
    The Vegemite Knight

    "if the skeleton kills you, your dps is too low." ~STEVIL

    The Elder World of WarScrollCraft Online ~joaaocaampos

    Alchemy leveling
  • theamazingx
    theamazingx
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    It was never supposed to affect poisons. Don't incorporate bugs into your builds, and you won't have this issue.

    Doesn't answer either question. Are you baiting?

    If a set bonus does something other than what it says, one of the two is a bug. It's to their discretion to which end it's "fixed".
  • rhapsodious
    rhapsodious
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    I mean, they fixed Twisting Path being direct damage when it's been that way for literal years, so.
  • Samadhi
    Samadhi
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    Torug’s Pact:
    ...
    It had been affecting poisons since they were introduced to the game, why the sudden unannounced nerf? ...

    Because it was a bug, rather than intentional
    so it was a fix, rather than a nerf
    fixes need not be announced as 'nerfs'

    no one needs a warning that something is going to begin working as it was intended to

    things working as intended should be the base expectation to have of the company
    "If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
    Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
  • Sordidfairytale
    Sordidfairytale
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    Well to be fair some of you could be new to the game and don't realize that Torug's was introduced at a time before poisons were in the game. So the tooltip says "enchantment" to weapons, and the later introduction of poisons would naturally get the buff from Torug's. Much like the Healing Mage set says "Weapon Damage" and yet it affects both weapon and spell damage. :o



    The Vegemite Knight

    "if the skeleton kills you, your dps is too low." ~STEVIL

    The Elder World of WarScrollCraft Online ~joaaocaampos

    Alchemy leveling
  • Samadhi
    Samadhi
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    Well to be fair some of you could be new to the game and don't realize that Torug's was introduced at a time before poisons were in the game. So the tooltip says "enchantment" to weapons, and the later introduction of poisons would naturally get the buff from Torug's.
    ...

    "Naturally get" by your own logic
    or by the logic of the devs?

    The devs logic appears to be that poisons should not naturally get the buff specific to enchantments

    Have been playing since Beta
    a bug fix is still a bug fix
    and given ZOS' shoddy record at fixing bugs
    can see how you may interpret what was effectively an exploit as having been naturally intended
    but we ought to be thankful they are addressing bugs at all

    :)
    "If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
    Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
  • Merlin13KAGL
    Merlin13KAGL
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    Well to be fair some of you could be new to the game and don't realize that Torug's was introduced at a time before poisons were in the game.
    Clue #1: It was not intended to work with something that wasn't even there poisons.
    Clue #2: Enchantments (what the tooltip says) are those things which poisons suppress.

    It's a bug. Well, it was a bug.

    Edited by Merlin13KAGL on August 14, 2017 5:15PM
    Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...

    Earn it.

    IRL'ing for a while for assorted reasons, in forum, and in game.
    I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
    Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS
  • Lord_Eomer
    Lord_Eomer
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    Torug’s Pact:
    This item set now reduces the cooldown of your weapon enchantment by 30% instead of one second, and is multiplicative with the cooldown reduction of the Infused trait.
    Fixed an issue where this item set’s bonus was modifying the strength and cooldown of poisons.


    It had been affecting poisons since they were introduced to the game, why the sudden unannounced nerf? Will Assassins Guile provide a strength buff to poisons?

    Major problem with this set was Oblivion Damage enchanement,

    Oblivion Damage enchanement is nerf with this patch so eventually affected this set a lot!

    QQ @ forum works finally!
    Edited by Lord_Eomer on August 14, 2017 5:19PM
  • Sordidfairytale
    Sordidfairytale
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    Well to be fair some of you could be new to the game and don't realize that Torug's was introduced at a time before poisons were in the game.
    Clue #1: It was not intended to work with something that wasn't even there poisons.
    Clue #2: Enchantments (what the tooltip says) are those things which poisons suppress.

    It's a bug. Well, it was a bug.

    I like how people conveniently miss the point about the Healing Mage set and it's tooltip (mis)information. Convenient argument is convenient.
    The Vegemite Knight

    "if the skeleton kills you, your dps is too low." ~STEVIL

    The Elder World of WarScrollCraft Online ~joaaocaampos

    Alchemy leveling
  • theamazingx
    theamazingx
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    Well to be fair some of you could be new to the game and don't realize that Torug's was introduced at a time before poisons were in the game.
    Clue #1: It was not intended to work with something that wasn't even there poisons.
    Clue #2: Enchantments (what the tooltip says) are those things which poisons suppress.

    It's a bug. Well, it was a bug.

    I like how people conveniently miss the point about the Healing Mage set and it's tooltip (mis)information. Convenient argument is convenient.

    Does Mending actually function that way in pvp? From what I understand, it functions that way in pve because monsters only have weapon damage as a modifiable stat, hence similar wording of the Weakening enchant.
  • Samadhi
    Samadhi
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    Well to be fair some of you could be new to the game and don't realize that Torug's was introduced at a time before poisons were in the game.
    Clue #1: It was not intended to work with something that wasn't even there poisons.
    Clue #2: Enchantments (what the tooltip says) are those things which poisons suppress.

    It's a bug. Well, it was a bug.

    I like how people conveniently miss the point about the Healing Mage set and it's tooltip (mis)information. Convenient argument is convenient.

    Has Healing Mage been reported as a bug?
    The fact that they need to fix another set, or the text on another set,
    does not void the validity of the bug fix on Torug's
    no matter how convenient it may be for your argument

    Likely what happens with Healing Mage is that it is taking the Weapon Damage out of the actual Weapon's pool (potentially unintentional)
    as the Damage stat of a Weapon impacts both Weapon and Spell Damage stats

    If you would like, we could use this thread to notify someone like @ZOS_GinaBruno of the issue with Healing Mage
    and ZOS can fix the debuff or the text of the set description accordingly
    "If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
    Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
  • Taleof2Cities
    Taleof2Cities
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    Samadhi wrote: »

    does not void the validity of the bug fix on Torug's
    no matter how convenient it may be for your argument

    ^This.^

    End this rant thread already ...

    Edited by Taleof2Cities on August 14, 2017 6:10PM
    "May you walk on warm sands."
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  • Merlin13KAGL
    Merlin13KAGL
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    Well to be fair some of you could be new to the game and don't realize that Torug's was introduced at a time before poisons were in the game.
    Clue #1: It was not intended to work with something that wasn't even there poisons.
    Clue #2: Enchantments (what the tooltip says) are those things which poisons suppress.

    It's a bug. Well, it was a bug.

    I like how people conveniently miss the point about the Healing Mage set and it's tooltip (mis)information. Convenient argument is convenient.
    I like how you're trying to argue one wrong tooltip as your own justification for what you think the other should be.

    Unlike "Weapon Damage" which could reasonably also include "Spell Damage," there is no way to misconstrue "Enchantment" to have any other meaning.

    Twist it all you like.
    1. You're wrong.
    2. It's already been fixed.

    Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...

    Earn it.

    IRL'ing for a while for assorted reasons, in forum, and in game.
    I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
    Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS
  • Sordidfairytale
    Sordidfairytale
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    Samadhi wrote: »
    Well to be fair some of you could be new to the game and don't realize that Torug's was introduced at a time before poisons were in the game.
    Clue #1: It was not intended to work with something that wasn't even there poisons.
    Clue #2: Enchantments (what the tooltip says) are those things which poisons suppress.

    It's a bug. Well, it was a bug.

    I like how people conveniently miss the point about the Healing Mage set and it's tooltip (mis)information. Convenient argument is convenient.

    Has Healing Mage been reported as a bug?
    The fact that they need to fix another set, or the text on another set,
    does not void the validity of the bug fix on Torug's
    no matter how convenient it may be for your argument

    Likely what happens with Healing Mage is that it is taking the Weapon Damage out of the actual Weapon's pool (potentially unintentional)
    as the Damage stat of a Weapon impacts both Weapon and Spell Damage stats

    If you would like, we could use this thread to notify someone like @ZOS_GinaBruno of the issue with Healing Mage
    and ZOS can fix the debuff or the text of the set description accordingly

    Yeah thanks, that's so awesome.

    It's not just a matter of convenience for an argument, however.

    Someone else brought up the point about the tooltip, so I pointed out that other tooltips are equally ambiguous.

    The change was rather sudden, and it has been working since poisons were introduced, it worked on the PTS up until now. And my question remains, will/should Assassins Guile get a buff equal to what Torug's gives to enchantments for poisons?

    I understand it's difficult for some people to realize that other people play the game differently than they do, and don't always use the popular builds that people post videos about, so questions like these might seem offensive and trigger them in ways that make them unable to have a reasonable conversation. And to those people that I've affected, I've altered my text in my original message to reflect "change" rather than "nerf".

    cheers!
    The Vegemite Knight

    "if the skeleton kills you, your dps is too low." ~STEVIL

    The Elder World of WarScrollCraft Online ~joaaocaampos

    Alchemy leveling
  • Bam_Bam
    Bam_Bam
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    Utterly confused.

    What is the 'last minute change' and is it positive or negative?

    Layman's terms or fingerpaint examples only please.
    Joined January 2014
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  • Sordidfairytale
    Sordidfairytale
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    Baranthus wrote: »
    Utterly confused.

    What is the 'last minute change' and is it positive or negative?

    Layman's terms or fingerpaint examples only please.

    The set was changed to how it affects poisons. It no longer affects them, it had been unintended in doing that according to the patch notes.

    Positive or negative directly relates to your point of view on it affecting poisons.
    The Vegemite Knight

    "if the skeleton kills you, your dps is too low." ~STEVIL

    The Elder World of WarScrollCraft Online ~joaaocaampos

    Alchemy leveling
  • leepalmer95
    leepalmer95
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    Samadhi wrote: »
    Well to be fair some of you could be new to the game and don't realize that Torug's was introduced at a time before poisons were in the game.
    Clue #1: It was not intended to work with something that wasn't even there poisons.
    Clue #2: Enchantments (what the tooltip says) are those things which poisons suppress.

    It's a bug. Well, it was a bug.

    I like how people conveniently miss the point about the Healing Mage set and it's tooltip (mis)information. Convenient argument is convenient.

    Has Healing Mage been reported as a bug?
    The fact that they need to fix another set, or the text on another set,
    does not void the validity of the bug fix on Torug's
    no matter how convenient it may be for your argument

    Likely what happens with Healing Mage is that it is taking the Weapon Damage out of the actual Weapon's pool (potentially unintentional)
    as the Damage stat of a Weapon impacts both Weapon and Spell Damage stats

    If you would like, we could use this thread to notify someone like @ZOS_GinaBruno of the issue with Healing Mage
    and ZOS can fix the debuff or the text of the set description accordingly

    Yeah thanks, that's so awesome.

    It's not just a matter of convenience for an argument, however.

    Someone else brought up the point about the tooltip, so I pointed out that other tooltips are equally ambiguous.

    The change was rather sudden, and it has been working since poisons were introduced, it worked on the PTS up until now. And my question remains, will/should Assassins Guile get a buff equal to what Torug's gives to enchantments for poisons?

    I understand it's difficult for some people to realize that other people play the game differently than they do, and don't always use the popular builds that people post videos about, so questions like these might seem offensive and trigger them in ways that make them unable to have a reasonable conversation. And to those people that I've affected, I've altered my text in my original message to reflect "change" rather than "nerf".

    cheers!

    Should change it from 'change' to 'fix' because thats what it is.

    You take a risk when you base a build around something thats clearly not intended.

    PS4 EU DC

    Current CP : 756+

    I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.


    RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...
  • Sordidfairytale
    Sordidfairytale
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    Samadhi wrote: »
    Well to be fair some of you could be new to the game and don't realize that Torug's was introduced at a time before poisons were in the game.
    Clue #1: It was not intended to work with something that wasn't even there poisons.
    Clue #2: Enchantments (what the tooltip says) are those things which poisons suppress.

    It's a bug. Well, it was a bug.

    I like how people conveniently miss the point about the Healing Mage set and it's tooltip (mis)information. Convenient argument is convenient.

    Has Healing Mage been reported as a bug?
    The fact that they need to fix another set, or the text on another set,
    does not void the validity of the bug fix on Torug's
    no matter how convenient it may be for your argument

    Likely what happens with Healing Mage is that it is taking the Weapon Damage out of the actual Weapon's pool (potentially unintentional)
    as the Damage stat of a Weapon impacts both Weapon and Spell Damage stats

    If you would like, we could use this thread to notify someone like @ZOS_GinaBruno of the issue with Healing Mage
    and ZOS can fix the debuff or the text of the set description accordingly

    Yeah thanks, that's so awesome.

    It's not just a matter of convenience for an argument, however.

    Someone else brought up the point about the tooltip, so I pointed out that other tooltips are equally ambiguous.

    The change was rather sudden, and it has been working since poisons were introduced, it worked on the PTS up until now. And my question remains, will/should Assassins Guile get a buff equal to what Torug's gives to enchantments for poisons?

    I understand it's difficult for some people to realize that other people play the game differently than they do, and don't always use the popular builds that people post videos about, so questions like these might seem offensive and trigger them in ways that make them unable to have a reasonable conversation. And to those people that I've affected, I've altered my text in my original message to reflect "change" rather than "nerf".

    cheers!

    Should change it from 'change' to 'fix' because thats what it is.

    You take a risk when you base a build around something thats clearly not intended.

    Thanks for your input. Sorry to have affected you, but the new title is fine the way it is. I can't keep taking personal feelings into account.
    The Vegemite Knight

    "if the skeleton kills you, your dps is too low." ~STEVIL

    The Elder World of WarScrollCraft Online ~joaaocaampos

    Alchemy leveling
  • itsfatbass
    itsfatbass
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    It was never supposed to affect poisons. Don't incorporate bugs into your builds, and you won't have this issue.

    By that logic nobody should incorporate animation canceling as that is an admitted bug in the game.
  • Samadhi
    Samadhi
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    Samadhi wrote: »
    Well to be fair some of you could be new to the game and don't realize that Torug's was introduced at a time before poisons were in the game.
    Clue #1: It was not intended to work with something that wasn't even there poisons.
    Clue #2: Enchantments (what the tooltip says) are those things which poisons suppress.

    It's a bug. Well, it was a bug.

    I like how people conveniently miss the point about the Healing Mage set and it's tooltip (mis)information. Convenient argument is convenient.

    Has Healing Mage been reported as a bug?
    The fact that they need to fix another set, or the text on another set,
    does not void the validity of the bug fix on Torug's
    no matter how convenient it may be for your argument

    Likely what happens with Healing Mage is that it is taking the Weapon Damage out of the actual Weapon's pool (potentially unintentional)
    as the Damage stat of a Weapon impacts both Weapon and Spell Damage stats

    If you would like, we could use this thread to notify someone like @ZOS_GinaBruno of the issue with Healing Mage
    and ZOS can fix the debuff or the text of the set description accordingly

    Yeah thanks, that's so awesome.

    It's not just a matter of convenience for an argument, however.

    Someone else brought up the point about the tooltip, so I pointed out that other tooltips are equally ambiguous.
    ...

    And if it is a bug or wording ambiguity,
    then hopefully ZOS will correct it now that it has been brought up
    so it is good that you brought it up,
    but nothing about it changes that fixing a bug
    does not 'require' announcement as a change
    in the way that changing how something is intended to work
    to working in a new intended way
    ...
    The change was rather sudden, and it has been working since poisons were introduced, it worked on the PTS up until now. And my question remains, will/should Assassins Guile get a buff equal to what Torug's gives to enchantments for poisons?
    ...

    Perhaps, rather than 'change' and 'working since'
    you were looking for the terms 'fix' and 'bugged since'

    As for Assassin's Guile
    do you have numbers to show cause for such a change in balance
    or is this a reaction to no longer being able to utilize a bug as a central build mechanic?
    ...
    I understand it's difficult for some people to realize that other people play the game differently than they do, and don't always use the popular builds that people post videos about, so questions like these might seem offensive and trigger them in ways that make them unable to have a reasonable conversation. And to those people that I've affected, I've altered my text in my original message to reflect "change" rather than "nerf".

    cheers!

    People are free to play the game in any manner they see fit,
    so long as they are not exploiting bugs for unintended effects

    perhaps your initial post, and even comprehension of the issue,
    would be more clear if you alter the text to correctly read "fix" rather than "change"

    :)
    "If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
    Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
  • Sordidfairytale
    Sordidfairytale
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    Are you suggesting that people should not use healing mage in their build until it's clarified what it is intended to work on? I mean they might be using a bug and not realize it.



    The Vegemite Knight

    "if the skeleton kills you, your dps is too low." ~STEVIL

    The Elder World of WarScrollCraft Online ~joaaocaampos

    Alchemy leveling
  • leepalmer95
    leepalmer95
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    Are you suggesting that people should not use healing mage in their build until it's clarified what it is intended to work on? I mean they might be using a bug and not realize it.



    They can use it all they want.

    Just don't be surprised and make a thread about it if it is a bug and gets fixed.

    Its the risk you take.
    PS4 EU DC

    Current CP : 756+

    I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.


    RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...
  • Sordidfairytale
    Sordidfairytale
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    Are you suggesting that people should not use healing mage in their build until it's clarified what it is intended to work on? I mean they might be using a bug and not realize it.



    They can use it all they want.

    Just don't be surprised and make a thread about it if it is a bug and gets fixed.

    Its the risk you take.

    Suggesting that someone knowingly use a possible bug? That's not very nice, shame.
    The Vegemite Knight

    "if the skeleton kills you, your dps is too low." ~STEVIL

    The Elder World of WarScrollCraft Online ~joaaocaampos

    Alchemy leveling
  • Samadhi
    Samadhi
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    Are you suggesting that people should not use healing mage in their build until it's clarified what it is intended to work on? I mean they might be using a bug and not realize it.

    Am not suggesting such,
    are you?

    Either way, you answered your own question,
    if they do not realize it is bugged, they are not exploiting it
    if they realize it is bugged, do not report it, and use it to produce imbalance they are exploiting it

    Do you have further issues in need of clarification?
    If something is unclear on how it is supposed to work,
    report the issue and continue on
    reported that Warden's Blue Betty procs the 5 piece Necropotence bonus
    which may make sense because it is a pet
    but may also not make sense as it is mechanically different compared to the combat pets of Sorcerers

    Necropotence got adjusted, am not up in arms about it
    if going back to Ysgramor's or War Maiden makes more sense, will do so
    "If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
    Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
  • leepalmer95
    leepalmer95
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    Samadhi wrote: »
    Are you suggesting that people should not use healing mage in their build until it's clarified what it is intended to work on? I mean they might be using a bug and not realize it.

    Am not suggesting such,
    are you?

    Either way, you answered your own question,
    if they do not realize it is bugged, they are not exploiting it
    if they realize it is bugged, do not report it, and use it to produce imbalance they are exploiting it

    Do you have further issues in need of clarification?
    If something is unclear on how it is supposed to work,
    report the issue and continue on
    reported that Warden's Blue Betty procs the 5 piece Necropotence bonus
    which may make sense because it is a pet
    but may also not make sense as it is mechanically different compared to the combat pets of Sorcerers

    Necropotence got adjusted, am not up in arms about it
    if going back to Ysgramor's or War Maiden makes more sense, will do so

    Betch isn't a bug it's a type of pet that can't be targeted like shade or the clannfear from the monster set.
    PS4 EU DC

    Current CP : 756+

    I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.


    RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...
  • geonsocal
    geonsocal
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    why they always have to fix *** just as I start using it :'(
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  • leepalmer95
    leepalmer95
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    Are you suggesting that people should not use healing mage in their build until it's clarified what it is intended to work on? I mean they might be using a bug and not realize it.



    They can use it all they want.

    Just don't be surprised and make a thread about it if it is a bug and gets fixed.

    Its the risk you take.

    Suggesting that someone knowingly use a possible bug? That's not very nice, shame.

    Suggesting that it may or may not be a bug.

    Like what was you expecting, a set that was out before poisons were made worked on poisons.

    The set doesn't state it reduces poisons, poisons aren't mentioned anywhere.

    Isn't it kind of obvious it wasn't intended.

    If its working differently that what it says then its obvious it could be a bug? How is that not nice or shameful?
    PS4 EU DC

    Current CP : 756+

    I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.


    RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...
  • Sordidfairytale
    Sordidfairytale
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    Samadhi wrote: »
    if they do not realize it is bugged, they are not exploiting it

    How is that so hard for people reading this thread to comprehend.
    Suggesting that it may or may not be a bug.

    Like what was you expecting, a set that was out before poisons were made worked on poisons.

    The set doesn't state it reduces poisons, poisons aren't mentioned anywhere.

    Isn't it kind of obvious it wasn't intended.

    If its working differently that what it says then its obvious it could be a bug? How is that not nice or shameful?

    Obvious? Really? ZOS is super quick at fixing and updating their tooltips when things are introduced/changed. If you can't pick up the sarcasm, my apologies.

    Not once have I asked that they revert this change, to be clear.
    The Vegemite Knight

    "if the skeleton kills you, your dps is too low." ~STEVIL

    The Elder World of WarScrollCraft Online ~joaaocaampos

    Alchemy leveling
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