PTS Update 20 - Feedback Thread for Sorcerer

Vogtard

Make the first cast instant, but add cast time to the stacked shields.

What worries me is that the instant Healing Ward might end up as the only reliable defence - hidden behind a paywall.
The extra Major Vitality might become crucial.

polgarah

Thank you Zoe, I’ve been playing ESO during the last 7 months paying my sub and with this patch you’ve ruined my characters. Both.

I couldn’t run vMA anymore, nobody wants magsorcs in trials, I couldn’t play BG’s anymore...I don’t have any reason to keep playing your game, I don’t wanna play any other character. What is the point? You will nerf and destroy it in a few months...

LadyNalcarya

Vogtard wrote: »

Make the first cast instant, but add cast time to the stacked shields.

What worries me is that the instant Healing Ward might end up as the only reliable defence - hidden behind a paywall.
The extra Major Vitality might become crucial.

They didnt even need that to sell new weapons tbh. Even in the current patch the buff from black rose resto still looks pretty sweet.

Joy_Division

I play a templar, I know spells with cast-times all too well. Putting a cast time on Hardened Ward and Harness magicka undermines the abilities to such an extent that they won't be able to fulfill their function in a competitive PvP environment.

Adding a few extra seconds will not make a difference.

Lord_Wrath

Im seriously baffled at the 1s cast time.

Darkenarlol

sweet changes to shields...

not even gonna mention that they are interruptable in pvp... pvp and magsorc are just two incompatible things now =D

i want to talk about pve...when you are almost dead you shield... nope you are CASTING shield now

when you bring your birdy into hard 4 man as OH S**T button...nah it is dead because you have to CAST shield while dodge-

roll is needed NOW... ok you've chosen to CAST that shield? birdy is dead because you are dead now trying to CAAAAST that

shield under pressure lol


at least as i said before in other thread i'm not punished for doing my crafting dailyes on sorc =D

but i guess that crafting nerf incoming in next patch if crafting on sorc

*histerical laugh here*

Drummerx04

I'm just floored by these changes. This is the first time I've truthfully considered quitting the game and cancelling my sub over patch notes... normally the changes are fairly minor: adding another attack that hits through dodge roll, or tweaking some damage, adding sloads, or even removing the stun from cFrag... but this is some next level back stabbing from a company we supported. Find me even one end game magsorc main who thinks this is a good idea or even a fun idea @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Wrobel.

Tell me how I'm supposed to anticipate in advance taking damage from two stam players in pvp who can gap close indefinitely and bash my shields away. I'll wait.

Hutch679

Darkenarlol wrote: »

sweet changes to shields...

not even gonna mention that they are interruptable in pvp... pvp and magsorc are just two incompatible things now =D

i want to talk about pve...when you are almost dead you shield... nope you are CASTING shield now

when you bring your birdy into hard 4 man as OH S**T button...nah it is dead because you have to CAST shield while dodge-

roll is needed NOW... ok you've chosen to CAST that shield? birdy is dead because you are dead now trying to CAAAAST that

shield under pressure lol


at least as i said before in other thread i'm not punished for doing my crafting dailyes on sorc =D

but i guess that crafting nerf incoming in next patch if crafting on sorc

*histerical laugh here*

Anyone else have a really tough time reading this and making sense out of it?

Universe

@ZOS_Wrobel
I'm really shocked that you considered adding casting time to damage shields and on top of that damage shields can receive critical damage...
Those 2 changes makes magicka sorcerer extremely weak in PVP to the point it's unplayable, no more shield stacking and no more casting of shield when getting in trouble.
The critical damage will eat through that hard to cast shield/s quickly.
The cast time will make stacking shields very hard to near impossible.

At first, I was hoping that the resistances of shields will somewhat help in PVE but they are completely useless when even casting 1 shield takes forever.
The shields resistances have reduced the incoming damage from the world boss I was soloing but the shields cast time made playing sorcerer really unenjoyable.
I did kill the world boss but the fight was in like slow motion.
It will be 10X harder to survive in hard content, like vet dungeons or in PVP.

The cast time of shields and critical damage to shields needs to be reverted before Update 20 Murkmire goes live.
I believe there is no need to nerf damage shields, but since I will probably won't be able to convince you, here is a suggestion on how to nerf shields but to not make them completely useless:
Shields Fatigue - While in PVP area you may receive the following:
"Shields fatigue": While shield stacking is applied, there is 10% chance to receive shields fatigue for 4 seconds.
While this debuff is active a player can bash the player who have this debuff and stun him for 3 seconds.
This also applies minor defile to the stunned player for 6 seconds, reducing his healing taken by 15%.

themaddaedra

When exactly have these forums become so toxic? It gives me headache when i try to read all those XXXXXXXXXXXs and ********s.

Honestly, i do know what a sorc is and only terrible thing here is shield cast times. I bet it won't survive the PTS cycle.

And all other changes are welcome. Once you remove cast time, shield changes are even a buff for PvE.

Sorcs will be ok. No need to burn the place down in any way.

Micah123

I’ve been a subscriber since beta. Haven’t played much lately but kept my sub. I’ve mained a sorc since beta. It seems strange to me that two skills that have been untouched since beta in the general form and function of them are now OP and are getting nerfed. To make both main sorc shields critable and have a cast time in the same patch is ridiculous. I am going to my account page next to unsub before trying it on pts and before it goes live. I do this in hopes that it in some way shows that making changes to skills that are critical to a squishy classes survivability, skills that have seemed to work just fine since the games release some 4 or 5 years ago are now so over powered they need a double nerf in one patch. I’m only $15/month, but I hope others follow suit. The only way I know to make zenimax feel any sort of pain is by not supporting their game monitarily is any form or fashion. Good Luck.

antihero727

Micah123 wrote: »

I’ve been a subscriber since beta. Haven’t played much lately but kept my sub. I’ve mained a sorc since beta. It seems strange to me that two skills that have been untouched since beta in the general form and function of them are now OP and are getting nerfed. To make both main sorc shields critable and have a cast time in the same patch is ridiculous. I am going to my account page next to unsub before trying it on pts and before it goes live. I do this in hopes that it in some way shows that making changes to skills that are critical to a squishy classes survivability, skills that have seemed to work just fine since the games release some 4 or 5 years ago are now so over powered they need a double nerf in one patch. I’m only $15/month, but I hope others follow suit. The only way I know to make zenimax feel any sort of pain is by not supporting their game monitarily is any form or fashion. Good Luck.

We are $30, Who's next?

Priyasekarssk

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for Sorcerer. Please read through all the changes in the patch notes and try them out on the PTS before providing feedback in this thread. Thank you!

Honest feedback propably my last feedback is lost hope on balance team and ZOs. Please fire the balance team as early as possible if you want to save the game .
Balance team consists of many NB streamers and destroying the game. They only worry about own personal money instead of doing their work properly with integrity for ZOs. It's not worth to give any feedback.
Do duel tournaments on open world and balance based on real data like other games rather with self proclaimed experts(********) and noob streamers. This patch is going to make many people to quit and uninstall game or unsubscribe. Its polite way of saying 'quit game'.

Priyasekarssk

zsban wrote: »

So I tried out the new shields on PTS.

Feels terrible. What about fast paced combat.... lol. ZOS keeps changing directions left and right, or to be more accurate, they swing the nerf hammer like a headless chicken, with no conception at all.

Also. Did vSCP tonight. How on earth am I supposed to stand in if the tank gets beamed, and can't stand there block cast spamming my shield?

*** YOU ZOS, *** YOU WROBEL, THIS ENTIRE COMPANY IS FULL WITH BRAINLESS ***.
I had enough, and you better ban my *** account or I keep spamming how *** disappointed I am.

Entire balance is full of NB streamers. Its all about money from stream and not taking their job with integrity. ESO is dead horse. Its time to move on.

ShieldStacker

Shields have always been a problem in Pvp but the main issue with them was that they couldn't be crit and they could be stacked allowing for people to spam wards and basically never die. Making shields crittable is a good change giving them a cast time makes them almost unusable in solo/small-scale fights I really hope the cast time gets reverted otherwise RIP Sorc

Hutch679

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for Sorcerer. Please read through all the changes in the patch notes and try them out on the PTS before providing feedback in this thread. Thank you!

Honest feedback propably my last feedback is lost hope on balance team and ZOs. Please fire the balance team as early as possible if you want to save the game . Balance team consists of many NB streamers and destroying the game. They only worry about own personal money instead of doing their work properly with integrity. It's not worth to give any feedback. Do duel tournaments on open world and balance based on real data like other ganes rather with self proclaimed experts(********). This patch is going to make many people to quit and uninstall game or unsubscribe. Its polite way of saying 'quit game'.

Thus it is defined.

SilverWF

@themaddaedra no, there is much easier ways to nerf shields
Like add crits and resists to them - and this is huge nerf by itself.
Or let shields values would be multiplicative (from different sources) rather than additive.
Or something else, like just raw decrease of values.

But cast time???

kookster

Rune Cage:
I honestly like the changes. It is still viable for meteor bursts cause you dont want to roll dodge that meteor cause it will hit you, so most people block which is where rune cage can come in. So its strong for that combo, but everything else rune cage is just ok, which i think is good. Also the CC is reliably breakable now.

Shield changes:
As someone who does not play mag sorc. I feel the cast time really really kills mag sorc in light. I dont think there should be a cast time honestly.

Jaimeh

I've written this in another thread but I'll repeat it here, I think the Overload change is completely unwarranted. A third bar is unique to sorcs but having to double-bar a lot of skills is also unique to sorcs, and before the changes to Bound Armour, this was even more pronounced. And it's not like having an Overload playstyle is completely risk free--swapping back and forth can be laggy, and I don't think anybody would use it in a fast combat situations like vMA, outside of round start/end, as getting caught in the wrong bar, or delaying to toggle if off can mean life or death. If they wanted to remove the third bar so that sorcs won't have a special feature, they should then also consider changing how pets need to be double slotted, etc.

Artim_X

Although I love how strong the overload heavy attack has become I would much rather have my third bar back. Cause this change in particular significantly denies me access to my full arsenal, since the overload bar was where I kept necessary PvE/PvP abilities that cannot fit on my regular bars. It's one of the main reasons for why I love the class and I never for even one second thought I would ever lose it, since it felt like a class defining skill.

Sure lots of players integrate light attacks into their rotation especially for "endgame" PvE content, but none of my builds do that cause my hands just don't work like that. Your idea of integrating overload light attacks into my personal rotation will never be a thing. Integrating the heavy attack on the other hand was fun when dealing with overland and dungeon mobs, but then I remembered my 3rd bar is gone, I have less buffs active, and at the end of the day my arsenal is diminished. In an ideal world I would love to keep overload's heavy attack damage change while also keeping the 3rd bar, but if I had to choose between the two I would pick the 3rd bar every time.

In PvE land where things are predictable the new hardened ward on it's own feels quite strong when used proactively, which isn't always easy to do. Before the change, shields like conjured ward and annulment could be used both proactively and reactively, but now it feels too awkward to use it reactively. Also the speed of combat feels much slower due to having to take a long pause just to put up my hardened ward.

From a PvP standpoint I cannot imagine any competent player allowing someone to use shields reactively especially to cover their pet. Using a restoration staff will still give my sorc some survivability in PvP, but if you've ever been attacked by gank build or multiple players who are not potatoes while playing a mag build it has always felt important at least for me to cast a shield and heal up however you can. However, the cast time on conjured ward and the light armor skill annulment honestly makes me feel like mag builds in general will end up primarily being group oriented in PvP, which shouldn't be the case for game that emphasizes playing how you want.

Micah123

antihero727 wrote: »

Micah123 wrote: »

I’ve been a subscriber since beta. Haven’t played much lately but kept my sub. I’ve mained a sorc since beta. It seems strange to me that two skills that have been untouched since beta in the general form and function of them are now OP and are getting nerfed. To make both main sorc shields critable and have a cast time in the same patch is ridiculous. I am going to my account page next to unsub before trying it on pts and before it goes live. I do this in hopes that it in some way shows that making changes to skills that are critical to a squishy classes survivability, skills that have seemed to work just fine since the games release some 4 or 5 years ago are now so over powered they need a double nerf in one patch. I’m only $15/month, but I hope others follow suit. The only way I know to make zenimax feel any sort of pain is by not supporting their game monitarily is any form or fashion. Good Luck.

We are $30, Who's next?

Just finished unsubbing. ZOS please make smart and balanced changes. I hope you understand it’s much harder to convince someone to hit that subscribe button once they’ve been pushed to unsubscribe. Do the right thing.

alcal32

I will quit the game if the Sorc class is destroyed.

LiquidPony

Crazy conspiracy theory: given the drastic pet changes (every sorc pet cost significantly reduced, Warden bear damage nerfed) ... maybe later in PTS we're getting an update where pets persist when summoned without needing to have the ability on both bars?

None of those changes make a lick of sense otherwise. Who cares about pet skill cost when they take up so many slots that you can't reasonably run an effective LA build? Why on earth would Wardens have their only differentiating DPS skill nerfed into the ground?

Also, did some parsing on a magsorc with a variety of gear/skill setups. I guess the good news is ... sustain is a bit better and DPS seems to be a bit better as well. So there's that, anyway. Also, the massive duration of Empowered Ward means that's a skill that you can reasonably fit into a rotation which is a nice little group buff.

Stamsorc solo parse DPS is also slightly improved and sustain is slightly improved as well. Not a huge difference but noticeably better than last patch.

Reloader84

Thank god that ZoS finally listened to the community about shields. Welcome to the land of being crit and being interrupted.

Also, RIP Magblades and Stamblades

Best day ever!

TY ZoS for listening to the non-sorc/stamina community.

Priyasekarssk

Hutch679 wrote: »

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for Sorcerer. Please read through all the changes in the patch notes and try them out on the PTS before providing feedback in this thread. Thank you!

Honest feedback propably my last feedback is lost hope on balance team and ZOs. Please fire the balance team as early as possible if you want to save the game . Balance team consists of many NB streamers and destroying the game. They only worry about own personal money instead of doing their work properly with integrity. It's not worth to give any feedback. Do duel tournaments on open world and balance based on real data like other ganes rather with self proclaimed experts(********). This patch is going to make many people to quit and uninstall game or unsubscribe. Its polite way of saying 'quit game'.

Thus it is defined.

Probably happiest man on earth ? I have a stam nb and magick nb backup leveled from may 2018. 2 garbage in 8 character slots. I know this will happen.
Wait a minute. Whom are you going to kill in PVP ? No one is going to play magicka except NB. Mage dk is dead.

Hutch679

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

Hutch679 wrote: »

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for Sorcerer. Please read through all the changes in the patch notes and try them out on the PTS before providing feedback in this thread. Thank you!

Honest feedback propably my last feedback is lost hope on balance team and ZOs. Please fire the balance team as early as possible if you want to save the game . Balance team consists of many NB streamers and destroying the game. They only worry about own personal money instead of doing their work properly with integrity. It's not worth to give any feedback. Do duel tournaments on open world and balance based on real data like other ganes rather with self proclaimed experts(********). This patch is going to make many people to quit and uninstall game or unsubscribe. Its polite way of saying 'quit game'.

Thus it is defined.

Probably happiest man on earth ? I have a stam nb and magick nb backup leveled from may 2018. 2 garbage in 8 character slots. I know this will happen.
Wait a minute. Whom are you going to kill in PVP ? No one is going to play magicka except NB. Mage dk is dead.

Definitely definitively defined definitions of definite indefinitely. Thank you for defining.

Odovacar

Everyone is like “we all thought this day would never come” omg, let’s overcome and move forward.

Malamar1229

There has been ongoing issue with damage shields specifically on sorcs stacking Hardened Ward over Harness and Healing Ward. I have personally played magicka sorc since launch and I adapted patch after patch, nerf after nerf. While I do not have all the answers, I can tell you this:


-Mobility is a painpoint for magicka sorcs. It has been for some time. Now from within melee range it will be impossible to re-apply a damage shield. Streak is expensive, can't really control the direction, and it's not smooth with terrain meaning you fall a lot on uneven surfaces losing about a second. Any stamina class has no issue keeping up with sorcs.

-Shields are only overpowered in a 1v1 scenario. They scale horribly as more players are involved, unlike dodge roll which performs better against X.

- Magicka sorc does not have strong innate damage like a nightblade does. I main both sorc and nightblade and attest to how much harder my NB hits, even when running two non-offensive sets. Coupled with this issue, is the *** poor sustain a sorc has without running sets to support...which again, does nothing for it's low damage. Even on live, most competent players shelved their magicka sorcs because they just don't have the damage to compete with stam.


All of you who have been parading for changes like this, you should honestly feel ashamed. This is not healthy and it's driving more players away from this game. You will not have anyone with which to PvP if the game dies and is unplugged. You should want a fun, balanced PvP environment for everyone of all skill levels. I can tell you in the current meta, there is no balance when it comes to magicka sorcs versus other classes (except magden, sorry guys). On live, they do not place in dueling tourneys. Raiding guilds don't want more than 1, if that. They perform horribly in 1vX scenarios, outperformed by all stamina classes, and especially in closed quarter (tower) type environments. There are many mechanics which have positioned magicka sorcs here- Swift jewelry traits, Fwd momentum being so cheap and effective, shuffle, to name a few.


To the ones cheerleading in the back, like the guy above me @Reloader84, I challenge you all to really look at your place in the ESO community or in any MMO for that matter. This isn't a single player Skyrim. It is a complex game layered with players of all skill levels. The vast majority are either average or below average, and the top tier players are a sliver minority. Bringing the bottom up and top down (subsidizing pretty much) is not the way to balance, nor is it rewarding to gut a class completely because the bottom tier majority cannot be bothered to learn how to play, counter play, or adapt. Instead of learning from your mistakes, you come to the forums in herds and pitchforks crying for changes to be made to blatantly hurt the players who have worked over the years to improve. It is not fair to make these nerfs to cover up your unskilled gameplay. Not a single decent player agrees that either of these shield changes were necessary.

The cast time cannot make it to live. I don't even care about the crit part. Cast time means no one will use them...forcing magicka sorcs into a Impreg Heavy armor meta...where they will suffer due to a lack of sustain and damage, where once again NBs will prevail.

Malamar1229

Micah123 wrote: »

antihero727 wrote: »

Micah123 wrote: »

I’ve been a subscriber since beta. Haven’t played much lately but kept my sub. I’ve mained a sorc since beta. It seems strange to me that two skills that have been untouched since beta in the general form and function of them are now OP and are getting nerfed. To make both main sorc shields critable and have a cast time in the same patch is ridiculous. I am going to my account page next to unsub before trying it on pts and before it goes live. I do this in hopes that it in some way shows that making changes to skills that are critical to a squishy classes survivability, skills that have seemed to work just fine since the games release some 4 or 5 years ago are now so over powered they need a double nerf in one patch. I’m only $15/month, but I hope others follow suit. The only way I know to make zenimax feel any sort of pain is by not supporting their game monitarily is any form or fashion. Good Luck.

We are $30, Who's next?

Just finished unsubbing. ZOS please make smart and balanced changes. I hope you understand it’s much harder to convince someone to hit that subscribe button once they’ve been pushed to unsubscribe. Do the right thing.

I have unsubbed 4 accounts, two PC, two Xbox.

Hutch679

I'm going to unsub if they dont fix by next Monday. They get one chance. Then my money is going to Fifa 19. Good luck, ZOS! Figure it out.