PTS Update 20 - Feedback Thread for Sorcerer

BlackLabel

My medium armor Stam Sorc got absolutely gutted. Bad changes regarding dark deal and overload. Not too happy about the evasion change as well since this should have been a passive. We simply asked you to fix evasion skill by making the snare removal up to par with forward momentum and you didn’t listen..

grannas211

AgaTheGreat wrote: »

I hate that all the changes are influenced by pvp only.

It's going to have a huge impact on pve sorcerers. Sorc survivability is gone. Imagine someone trying to learn vma on a sorc now, the arena is too punishing for new players and now take away their shield spamming and they will be too frustrated to continue. They will quit on arena 2.

Xsorus wrote: »

I'll just run Impregnable 5 Piece/5 Lich/2 Bloodspawn/1 Master's Staff on my Sorc

Lieblingsjunge wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Lieblingsjunge wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Lieblingsjunge wrote: »

I'm just reading this thread for pure entertainment.

Edit: Also, for the record. Solo is dead. With the addition of new sets, solo will be 100% dead, so talking from a solo-pov is already useless. In a smallscale-group, the 1s cast time won't mean much, as you always have(should have) group members backing you up if needed.

Nerf sorc => Sorcs lose their minds.
Nerf DK/Temp that's been nerfed to pieces in the past => "ha, used to it, whatever". Then it turns out DKs and temps still existed, even when it's trash.

Honestly, sorcs are losing their mind way too early. And the 1 second cast-time only applies to Harness/Conjured + you get your shield-duration back. Just because you can't stand open-field and shield to infinity anymore, you might have to streak => dork deal => shield or streak => shield => Dork deal or something. It's not dead. The good sorcs that still killed stuff this patch, will continue to kill stuff next patch. The difference is, newbies won't get free victories anymore against potatoes.

Tbf, I'm more worried about the way the larmour shield will affect PvEers. 1s cast time for a shield? Yikes. Although, /slowclap, healers are gonna be useful again.

But you get spring cost and snare immunity in Larmour + resistances anyway. Keep Conjured Ward slotted, and change Harness out for Boundless Storm. Ezpz.

/Yes, you can slaughter me now. -chirps and bows deep-

1. It's a reactive defense that must now be planned. This is a contradiction in terms, this is not a good change.

2. The crit changes were enough.

That is all.

Other classes had to be reactive and plan thier defences. They still lived. Crit changes are being made up for, by giving you resistances to the shields. Free up one slot on your bar by removing harness magicka and slot boundless storm.

That's not true at all.

NB: insta cloak, telport
Temps: Block + BOL
DKs: Wings, Block + Dragon blood
Wardens: Shimmering or mushrooms

I did vMA on my sorc last night on the PTS. I see what the devs were going for because it's possible to do the arena with the way shields are (mostly by using healing ward shield as the oh *** button), but there is zero reason to slot, let alone use, Conjured ward or harness in their current state.

Yes, this will hurt PvE-players, but that's not only affecting sorcs. Every class that relied on, or used, larmour shield is gonna be affected, that's not a sorc-only thing. I got Flawless Conqueror on my Magplar, and that is done without BoL, and with Larmour shield. Ain't gonna be able to do that now. Although, healing ward seems like a decent contender.


And the conjured ward are lasting longer, to make up for the loss in PvP. You just gotta plan a bit on a sorc in PvP. But for the pve-side of things, this is gna be really hard for solo-content. Although, healers are somewhat not redundant anymore, for veteran content, that's not the 0,01% player base that's going for scores.

You do realize they dont last the full duration now so extending it does nothing?

Galarthor

Lieblingsjunge wrote: »

Edit: Also, for the record. Solo is dead. With the addition of new sets, solo will be 100% dead, so talking from a solo-pov is already useless. In a smallscale-group, the 1s cast time won't mean much, as you always have(should have) group members backing you up if needed.

Great, then let's be fair about it and in the interest of balance remove all instant abilities ... after all, there will always be a teammate backing you up. Btw, that also includes dodge, block, break-free, etc.

I know the 1 sec delay is not a big issue for you zerglings as you count down your attacks anyway and simply have to start 1 sec earlier, but for all the non-zerglings out there it actually does matter b/c combat is fast-paced and involve using more than 3 abilities.

BaylorCorvette

BlackLabel wrote: »

My medium armor Stam Sorc got absolutely gutted. Bad changes regarding dark deal and overload. Not too happy about the evasion change as well since this should have been a passive. We simply asked you to fix evasion skill by making the snare removal up to par with forward momentum and you didn’t listen..

Yup exactly this. The 3rd bar from Overload was fantastic for utility on a StamSorc since we have to use more buffs to get major / minor buffs that other classes get in their tool kit. If Overload had a Stam Morph then the new change on PTS might actually be really good in terms of weaving an OL LA. But right now with it as a Mag Ult using magPen. and magCrit it really falls flat of its potential on StamSorc. Just another thing gutting StamSorc and its very little class defining features.

LadyNalcarya

Lieblingsjunge wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Lieblingsjunge wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Lieblingsjunge wrote: »

I'm just reading this thread for pure entertainment.

Edit: Also, for the record. Solo is dead. With the addition of new sets, solo will be 100% dead, so talking from a solo-pov is already useless. In a smallscale-group, the 1s cast time won't mean much, as you always have(should have) group members backing you up if needed.

Nerf sorc => Sorcs lose their minds.
Nerf DK/Temp that's been nerfed to pieces in the past => "ha, used to it, whatever". Then it turns out DKs and temps still existed, even when it's trash.

Honestly, sorcs are losing their mind way too early. And the 1 second cast-time only applies to Harness/Conjured + you get your shield-duration back. Just because you can't stand open-field and shield to infinity anymore, you might have to streak => dork deal => shield or streak => shield => Dork deal or something. It's not dead. The good sorcs that still killed stuff this patch, will continue to kill stuff next patch. The difference is, newbies won't get free victories anymore against potatoes.

Tbf, I'm more worried about the way the larmour shield will affect PvEers. 1s cast time for a shield? Yikes. Although, /slowclap, healers are gonna be useful again.

But you get spring cost and snare immunity in Larmour + resistances anyway. Keep Conjured Ward slotted, and change Harness out for Boundless Storm. Ezpz.

/Yes, you can slaughter me now. -chirps and bows deep-

1. It's a reactive defense that must now be planned. This is a contradiction in terms, this is not a good change.

2. The crit changes were enough.

That is all.

Other classes had to be reactive and plan thier defences. They still lived. Crit changes are being made up for, by giving you resistances to the shields. Free up one slot on your bar by removing harness magicka and slot boundless storm.

That's not true at all.

NB: insta cloak, telport
Temps: Block + BOL
DKs: Wings, Block + Dragon blood
Wardens: Shimmering or mushrooms

I did vMA on my sorc last night on the PTS. I see what the devs were going for because it's possible to do the arena with the way shields are (mostly by using healing ward shield as the oh *** button), but there is zero reason to slot, let alone use, Conjured ward or harness in their current state.

Yes, this will hurt PvE-players, but that's not only affecting sorcs. Every class that relied on, or used, larmour shield is gonna be affected, that's not a sorc-only thing. I got Flawless Conqueror on my Magplar, and that is done without BoL, and with Larmour shield. Ain't gonna be able to do that now. Although, healing ward seems like a decent contender.


And the conjured ward are lasting longer, to make up for the loss in PvP. You just gotta plan a bit on a sorc in PvP. But for the pve-side of things, this is gna be really hard for solo-content. Although, healers are somewhat not redundant anymore, for veteran content, that's not the 0,01% player base that's going for scores.

Pre-casting shields is useless, they're going down very fast when you're taking damage. It's not a buff, its just a temporary extension to your health bar.
And it doesnt help pve healers. The main reason why healers arent needed is because new dungeons are full of oneshots. We cant heal oneshots so its easier to bring another dps to make fights shorter (=less chances to be oneshotted). It's that simple.

Doctordarkspawn

Lieblingsjunge wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Lieblingsjunge wrote: »

I'm just reading this thread for pure entertainment.

Edit: Also, for the record. Solo is dead. With the addition of new sets, solo will be 100% dead, so talking from a solo-pov is already useless. In a smallscale-group, the 1s cast time won't mean much, as you always have(should have) group members backing you up if needed.

Nerf sorc => Sorcs lose their minds.
Nerf DK/Temp that's been nerfed to pieces in the past => "ha, used to it, whatever". Then it turns out DKs and temps still existed, even when it's trash.

Honestly, sorcs are losing their mind way too early. And the 1 second cast-time only applies to Harness/Conjured + you get your shield-duration back. Just because you can't stand open-field and shield to infinity anymore, you might have to streak => dork deal => shield or streak => shield => Dork deal or something. It's not dead. The good sorcs that still killed stuff this patch, will continue to kill stuff next patch. The difference is, newbies won't get free victories anymore against potatoes.

Tbf, I'm more worried about the way the larmour shield will affect PvEers. 1s cast time for a shield? Yikes. Although, /slowclap, healers are gonna be useful again.

But you get spring cost and snare immunity in Larmour + resistances anyway. Keep Conjured Ward slotted, and change Harness out for Boundless Storm. Ezpz.

/Yes, you can slaughter me now. -chirps and bows deep-

1. It's a reactive defense that must now be planned. This is a contradiction in terms, this is not a good change.

2. The crit changes were enough.

That is all.

Other classes had to be reactive and plan thier defences. They still lived. Crit changes are being made up for, by giving you resistances to the shields. Free up one slot on your bar by removing harness magicka and slot boundless storm.

The shield resistances were all that needed to happen. It gives tanky players the ability to use those shields, and it makes the ones casted by sorcs more of an oh *** button to eat sudden damage spikes.

The cast time was un-necessary. Period. It doesn't fit the fast paced combat and as a templar main, as someone who doesn't even play this class, I can recognize they went overboard.

SenorCrouch

Ah crap, went back into the PTS this morning and found they have a 1 second casting time on Harness Magicka as well as Hardened Ward. RIP me.

rosendoichinoveb17_ESO

Shields need to have their 1 second cast time removed. As a compensation to adding resistance mitigation reduce their their effectiveness by 1/3 and we will be fine. This should bring them on par to their current value as light armor builds don't have more than 10k-12k resistances in PvE.

In addition Summon Twilight Tormentor needs a damage buff and a rework to its morph as it it just useless on enemies below 50% as there is no point in casting it (most meaningful for dungeon bosses and raids). It is not worth casting for non-boss enemies as they are low health to begin with.

ZOS_JesC

Greetings, we've removed some nonconstructive and bashing comments in order to make the feedback easier to read through. Thank you for your understanding, and please remember to keep comments civil and constructive.

antihero727

ZOS_JesC wrote: »

Greetings, we've removed some nonconstructive and bashing comments in order to make the feedback easier to read through. Thank you for your understanding, and please remember to keep comments civil and constructive.

We will be respectful when zos respects us too. Good luck to your team as it’s going to be a long day for us all, Godspeed.

Irylia

Yoooo can I get a goblin poly/disguise (similar to skele)
At least I can then roleplay as the most hated race and class.

Low key just want my goblin back in cyro. Gimme gimme

Beardimus

Personally, id have created a class reps program to avoid all these problems.

Rather than just dream up changes no one wants to problems no one mentioned - which is ALWAYS going to get backlash what I would do is get the community to vote in say 10 balanced expereinced players, i'd get them some threads on here, get them to setup discords to discuss stuff.

I'd meet with them, hear their feedback and factor it into plans / changes. I'd also listen to feedback following PTS launches and those threads etc.

oh hang on... think we did 99% of that just that last 1% missing.

Irylia

ProfoundlyFaded wrote: »

Wow you lot, I hope you have someone coming over to pick the toys up from the floor.

If you can't manage to play a Sorc without spamming shields then seriously, get out the kitchen because it is too hot for you in there.

There is no fun or glory in being nigh on invincible from being able to spam shields at the rate some players do.

I speak as a Sorc.

Insightful
:thumbs up: sarcasm

Dreyloch

ezio45 wrote: »

Im going to TRY to be as non toxic as possible with this.....

Conjured Ward:
This ability and its morphs now have a 1-second cast time, previously an instant cast.
Increased the duration of the damage shield for Conjured Ward and the Hardened Ward morph to 9 seconds from 6 seconds.
Empowered Ward (morph): Increased the duration of the damage shield to 14 seconds from 9 seconds.

The increase to 9 seconds is useless shields dont stay up that long in pvp
Likewise the increase to 14 seconds is useless, see above

The cast time is the part i am most "upset" over
- Means you cant case shields back to back
- You cant cast them when your in trouble and have them take effect, compounding the fact that you already could not cast them in the same time frame you were on the attack because of the gcd
- A one second cast time is the same as a hard cast

-You can now deal a Critical Strike against an enemy with a damage shield.
-Your Spell and Physical Resistance now reduces incoming damage before it is applied to your damage shield.
This change makes damage shields function more consistently with the rest of the game’s mechanics. It means that damage shields are more powerful in PvE content since monsters generally don’t reduce armor. Heavy Armor players in particular will receive much more effective damage shields now. This is intended to make damage shields a more potent tools for tanks. We will be monitoring this change closely throughout the PTS cycle and will make adjustments as necessary.
-Poisons and Weapon Enchantments can now proc even if the damage done by the Light Attack, Heavy Attack, or Weapon Ability is fully absorbed by a damage shield.

My shield is 14k out of pvp, thats 7k in pvp, THATS 1 CRIT 1 and there is not a cast time in addition to the gcd were I cant cast a shield

I thought zos was trying to make tanks more kill able in pvp, by adding the resist to shields you have compounded that. Even tho god knows the light armor will need it now

Poisons and enchants procing im fine with, excluding entrap which compounds the easiest counter play against sorc, stuns

THIS PATCH HAS KILLED MAGSORC

There 0 reason to be a magsorc this update, Respectfully as possible I dont need to try this on pts, I have common sense, I know my class


@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_MattFiror @ZOS_Wrobel

Well said, and here's some other info for the devs (because we KNOW you don't play PvP enough, or maybe at all). Here's a few items that (If you played a Mag Sorc on NA Vivec, you'd know this nerf was Wayyy wrong).

Item one: Lag. There are times in PvP where the lag is so horrible that casting anything is difficult as it is. I can see the icon react to my button pushes, and have to keep pushing till it actually goes off. So try to think about this effect with a one second cast time? Even the best sorc players will be dead before it ever goes off. Then your compounding that effect with it being crit-able. Light armor offers little to no physical or elemental resists. So that is no compensation at all imo.

Item two: If there is still a reasonable goal of trying to reduce "ball groups" in PvP, there is another side effect to every sorc in PvP putting their toons on the shelf. NEGATES. There will no longer be players out there with negates that will help to stop these groups. Negate is still one of the best ways to do that, because they run RIGHT THRU Time stop using a Rapid Maneuvers bot/person/member spamming it.

Item three: You've increased the damage passive of medium armor. Mag sorcs have had a rough time already with the super speedy use of Swift jewelry compounded by the burst of medium armor build damage. Simply "streaking away" doesn't always cut it these days...

Item four: Fending off a nightblade attack from stealth. If I'm on a siege weapon, there are times a NB will come up and try to gank me. Now just saying if I survive the initial burst, my first reaction is to cast that damage shield. I'll be dead in that one second before I would ever see it cast for protection.

These shield changes must not go live. I might accept the crit if you increase the protection light armor gives along with the extended time. I "might" even say leave the cast times and duration alone(as they are on live currently), but make it a crit cast as others have mentioned, with the current durations.

The other changes to light armor with regen and such is not compensation for this absurdity. I can personally say I've never used the 3rd bar for overload because of the light attacks being reflectable as it is. That change doesn't bother me. I'll also add that it's nice your trying to get impulse back into the mix, but tread lightly here. I still recall ball groups using that ad-nausem when there were no AoE caps. So everything looks like it's going full circle back to those days, and it's why so many players left the game.

Last tidbit here: There are 2 counters already in the game for shield stacking. Shield breaker and Sload's. I've even had the DIS-pleasure of being killed by a nightblade using BOTH those sets during the recent Imperial city event. You gotta be crazy if you think that isn't enough.

Murador178

Finally shieldbreaker is not more worth it to run .

ruikkarikun

Alot deleted comments?

Democracy ?!

PS

Constructive criticism from @Alcast in his latest video
https://youtube.com/watch?v=B087K6AdPMM

tngunner

Ive jus read the patch notes but the one second cast time on shields is a bit extreme if you really wanna fix mag sorc for pvp an pve the best way to do so is to take the dot of endless fury for starters for pvp an it won't effect pve really other that maybe maelstorm sustian. I agree that rune cage is broken but that nerf will just make it not useable an easily dodged but I don't play on PC so I'm not on pts jus my thoughts but I think really the skill needs to be done away with in general an reimagined maybe give sorc a main spamable in that spot every class in the game has a class specific spamable but the sorc an I like the shield be critable idea but the resistances will probably make it to stong without the cast time but the cast time is really unnecessary an the dark deal change is interesting it could be good but the mag sorc pve sustian is rather terrible but I see the cost reduction to curse it may be enough to get through a 3 mil parce with out being bone dry on resources but we'll see.. just my thoughts ps you for got to give sunshield a cast time bone shield an obsidian shield lol if your gonna do one you should do all lol

ruikkarikun

Just make separate changes and make PVP morphs / and PVE morphs.

Or make cnahge so you can't have shield more then one. Problem solved. Instant shield. But you can have only one shield at time. I

DeathStalker

I am beginning to wonder what is it going to take to get any kind of response from ESO about the one second cast time. Clearly, it is not a well-liked change. So when is ESO going to bother to even acknowledge the players POV on this? Can we get some kind of official response?

ToadSage

Cast time on shields + pvp lag=small group or solo Sorcs screwed (

Dreyloch

ToadSage wrote: »

Cast time on shields + pvp lag=small group or solo Sorcs screwed (

Not just them, it's ALL styles of play. Just last night it was taking 2-3 seconds to cast anything with all three factions fighting over a scroll at Faregyl on NA Vivec. I wasn't even on my sorc, and I can tell you it would have been impossible to stay alive if that cast time was involved.

valeriiya

Dreyloch wrote: »

ToadSage wrote: »

Cast time on shields + pvp lag=small group or solo Sorcs screwed (

Not just them, it's ALL styles of play. Just last night it was taking 2-3 seconds to cast anything with all three factions fighting over a scroll at Faregyl on NA Vivec. I wasn't even on my sorc, and I can tell you it would have been impossible to stay alive if that cast time was involved.

The lag problem is huge; it can take 3 tries before I can bar swap on PS4 or get a shield up. We already have a delay, don't add to it.

Akimbro

DeathStalker wrote: »

I am beginning to wonder what is it going to take to get any kind of response from ESO about the one second cast time. Clearly, it is not a well-liked change. So when is ESO going to bother to even acknowledge the players POV on this? Can we get some kind of official response?

See how long it took them to make a change to sloads....

Giraffon

ZOS_JesC wrote: »

Greetings, we've removed some nonconstructive and bashing comments in order to make the feedback easier to read through. Thank you for your understanding, and please remember to keep comments civil and constructive.

Um...So does this mean you read all of our posts?

Do you have anything else you'd like to say about the topic of this thread?

Growlspirit

cast time on shield?????? Does anyone there even PLAY a sorc in pve?

Beardimus

Growlspirit wrote: »

cast time on shield?????? Does anyone there even PLAY a sorc in pve?

Any problem you feel that has in PvE, static content, think of the multiplier for PvP.

Natas013

Seriously… I have no words. Just when I decided to come back after the rage I felt from DB leading up to MW you pull this? More channels, less sustain, loss of a third bar but pets are still toggles. Do you even play this game?

Cast time on shields is absurd point blank.

20 sec delay on resource return on a skill that is a channel is absurd

The toggles are absurd (we’re the only class that still has them) without the third bar.

Overload is completely worthless unless you can weapon swap with it active or out of it (and then it’s only partly worthless)

These toggle pets still have a cast time

Defensive rune is dodgable? Really?

Still no class spamable?

Streak? Enough said

I'd go on but I already know I’m wasting my time, as is everyone else on this thread. Dozens of good ideas to make sorcs fun and interesting to play were posted in a thread you set up over a year ago and I’ve seen nothing from that tread, or even close to what was posted there. You obviosly don’t care about this class so why not introduce class change tokens, distribute them to Sorc players and delete the class all together? Just be done with it already.

cokkto

Natas013 wrote: »

Seriously… introduce class change tokens, distribute them to Sorc players and delete the class all together? Just be done with it already.

Love that, pls , zos, make it real.

Thraben

Sorc Tanks - detailed feedback.

1) Yes we do exist. My Magsorc is a healtank, and my StamSorc is a main tank.

2) Let´s start with the joke of the month:

"We want Sorcerers to feel like they have access to their full arsenal while in Overload mode. This ability is updated to better integrate with other abilities. As soon as you Overload light attack you can cast an ability, just like the light attacks of any other weapon set."

Then, compare the StamSorc tank with the 2 "normal" tank classes, DK and Warden.

a) The DK is the classical block tank. If he can´t block, he shields himself up until he can again block. His support use is the increase in group damage.

b) The warden is the classical healtank. He can both heal and tank most dungeons so that you can safely pick 3 DDs in your group. Even his sustain is based on the amount he heals.

c) The Sorc ist the classical "Fake Tank", so people think. However, if he equips the clannfear and some other situational skills, he can be an awesome support tank, because he can sustain himself and even share some sustain with the group: StamSorc tanks throwing Orbs at the DDs or placing altars actually exist!

By deleting the Overload bar, you are taking this "support" speciality from us, leaving us as gimped health tanks with worse passives and fewer skill slots than a DK which destroys our survivability and flexibility.

3) Dark Deal: We economists have a very simple understanding of saving: People prefer having money now to having money in maybe 10 years. Because, you know, in 10 years you might already be dead. Thus, the interest rate must be reliably high enough to motivate people to save money. The same principle applies to the new Dark Deal. Even worse, I´m getting punished if I have to use the skill more often than, say, 20 seconds. For a laughable interest rate of 2% more ressource regen? Naaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhh....

4) Bound Armor: The duration of the skill´s active effect is so short that both Bone Shield and Defensive Posture are more efficient skills. I only use it on my damage bar.

Didgerion

PTS test results:

1. Test result of 1-second cast time on shields
The shields are not reliable anymore not in PVE nor in PVP. The cast is interrupted by stuns and interrupt mechanic. Casting it prevents you from doing other moves like light attacking or bar swapping.

2. Test result of overload. Toggling and untoggling overload skill is very non-friendly now. It even remains toggled when you swap the bars and there is another ultimate on that bar. Also consuming that other ultimate leaves you with 0 ultimate but you can still cast one more overload. Looks like the work is not finished for overload yet - feels very raw and unprofessional.

3. Test result for resistances on shields - uhm impossible to test it with 1s cast time - and there is no need to really, as no one will use shields with cast times