PTS Update 20 - Feedback Thread for Sorcerer

Derra

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

SaKGEE wrote: »

new hardened ward in pvp, why would you add battle spirit to already dead shield?

@Derra

You said something yesterday? Yes its bugged PRE-battle spirit, but after?

It´s in the patchnotes that it´s bugged.

Zos_RobGarret showcased the math how it´s supposed to work. A 24k hp build (with battlespirit in those hp) is supposed to have a 9600 cap on their shields in cyrodiil.

Derra

ku5h wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

GoodFella146 wrote: »

So basically you just need a light attack to break my shield i paid 3k magicka for? Lol what skill

4k DK wings says hello and welcome to the club where your mitigation is nullified by free attacks.

Even though i wouldn't put wings and shields in the same category, since DK has a few other very potent defensive skills, I think that wings is amazing skill which tottaly shuts down ReachSorc and magBlade and you got snare immunity on it, lol.

It´s also the ultimate hypocrisy - because getting rid of wings with those free attacks means shooting oneself a minimum of 12k tooltip dmg back into the face.

Removing wings isn´t free. It´s shooting oneself and makes wings one of the highest dmg tooltips in the game.

But since all DKs seem to have prosecution complex that´s easily forgotten.

Somewhere

The travel time they added to Crystal Fragments (and by extension Spectral Bow) feels just absolutely horrible. I figured this would be mostly a pvp change and wouldn't be too bad, but it's terrible. Last PTS cycle Frags felt very good to use since its animation was finally smoothed out at the end, and it was quick on instant cast. Now it's just garbage. I doubt it'll get reverted or anything changed because shields are getting the most attention.

Nicko_Lps

Derra wrote: »

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

SaKGEE wrote: »

new hardened ward in pvp, why would you add battle spirit to already dead shield?

@Derra

You said something yesterday? Yes its bugged PRE-battle spirit, but after?

It´s in the patchnotes that it´s bugged.

Zos_RobGarret showcased the math how it´s supposed to work. A 24k hp build (with battlespirit in those hp) is supposed to have a 9600 cap on their shields in cyrodiil.

Already know its bugged, said so but from 10k+ you claimed yesterday now youre down to 9k6?

One way or the other, shields are useless crittable + have resist + get major breach + affected by spriggans = 0 resistance + Crits unless we start running 1 pirate skelly piece + 1 chudan piece and loose (in my case) 1 domi + 1 illambris that means huge amount of damage loss + stamina. But hey, our frag proc deals +10% more dmg. Class is saved.

Derra

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

SaKGEE wrote: »

new hardened ward in pvp, why would you add battle spirit to already dead shield?

@Derra

You said something yesterday? Yes its bugged PRE-battle spirit, but after?

It´s in the patchnotes that it´s bugged.

Zos_RobGarret showcased the math how it´s supposed to work. A 24k hp build (with battlespirit in those hp) is supposed to have a 9600 cap on their shields in cyrodiil.

Already know its bugged, said so but from 10k+ you claimed yesterday now youre down to 9k6?

One way or the other, shields are useless crittable + have resist + get major breach + affected by spriggans = 0 resistance + Crits unless we start running 1 pirate skelly piece + 1 chudan piece and loose (in my case) 1 domi + 1 illambris that means huge amount of damage loss + stamina. But hey, our frag proc deals +10% more dmg. Class is saved.

Wow.

25k hp in cyrodiil will get a 10k shield. The math showcased used the same calculation but with 24k hp which results in a 9.6k shield.
The maximum shieldsize you´ll see will be related to your HP. Get 26k hp - you´ll have 10400 max shield.

Nicko_Lps

Derra wrote: »

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

SaKGEE wrote: »

new hardened ward in pvp, why would you add battle spirit to already dead shield?

@Derra

You said something yesterday? Yes its bugged PRE-battle spirit, but after?

It´s in the patchnotes that it´s bugged.

Zos_RobGarret showcased the math how it´s supposed to work. A 24k hp build (with battlespirit in those hp) is supposed to have a 9600 cap on their shields in cyrodiil.

Already know its bugged, said so but from 10k+ you claimed yesterday now youre down to 9k6?

One way or the other, shields are useless crittable + have resist + get major breach + affected by spriggans = 0 resistance + Crits unless we start running 1 pirate skelly piece + 1 chudan piece and loose (in my case) 1 domi + 1 illambris that means huge amount of damage loss + stamina. But hey, our frag proc deals +10% more dmg. Class is saved.

Wow.

25k hp in cyrodiil will get a 10k shield. The math showcased used the same calculation but with 24k hp which results in a 9.6k shield.
The maximum shieldsize you´ll see will be related to your HP. Get 26k hp - you´ll have 10400 max shield.

I have played this game 6 months in the launch and another 10 months now.

Both times taught me to not pay attention and trust what devs say or claim because forum whiners always win vs devs+players.


Still 5k or 9k or 10k have the same useless effect on sorcs that have 0 heals and 0 other defensives for reasons mentioned above plus a change that will force us to retrait our well fitted to impen.

The change was a clear "save magblade" in PvP that if youre right and im wrong they lost 2k or so shielding value while we lost 12k

Derra

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

SaKGEE wrote: »

new hardened ward in pvp, why would you add battle spirit to already dead shield?

@Derra

You said something yesterday? Yes its bugged PRE-battle spirit, but after?

It´s in the patchnotes that it´s bugged.

Zos_RobGarret showcased the math how it´s supposed to work. A 24k hp build (with battlespirit in those hp) is supposed to have a 9600 cap on their shields in cyrodiil.

Already know its bugged, said so but from 10k+ you claimed yesterday now youre down to 9k6?

One way or the other, shields are useless crittable + have resist + get major breach + affected by spriggans = 0 resistance + Crits unless we start running 1 pirate skelly piece + 1 chudan piece and loose (in my case) 1 domi + 1 illambris that means huge amount of damage loss + stamina. But hey, our frag proc deals +10% more dmg. Class is saved.

Wow.

25k hp in cyrodiil will get a 10k shield. The math showcased used the same calculation but with 24k hp which results in a 9.6k shield.
The maximum shieldsize you´ll see will be related to your HP. Get 26k hp - you´ll have 10400 max shield.

I have played this game 6 months in the launch and another 10 months now.

Both times taught me to not pay attention and trust what devs say or claim because forum whiners always win vs devs+players.


Still 5k or 9k or 10k have the same useless effect on sorcs that have 0 heals and 0 other defensives for reasons mentioned above plus a change that will force us to retrait our well fitted to impen.

The change was a clear "save magblade" in PvP that if youre right and im wrong they lost 2k or so shielding value while we lost 12k

the cap is per shield and only for annulment and conjure ward. you can still stack them. you didn´t lose 12k.

Feanor

@Derra

So Argonian everyone?

Derra

Feanor wrote: »

@Derra

So Argonian everyone?

Argonian seems preferable for light armor as it gets a better hp to magica ratio than classic races.

For heavy I can see just about any race stil - but personally would chose: Breton > Argonian > Dunmer > Altmer

From my personal pov altmer is now the worst possible race for a pvp magsorc.

Witar

I actually lost close to 25k shields in pve.

Sebar80

Shields are not even possible to test now. Other changes however are just more nerfs piling up on sorc.

Our source of speed buff now mandatory due to resistance changes was nerfed by 60% while swift was nerfed by 40% (duration to speed). Yet mag sorc cannot effectively stack speed or extend duration due to loss of damage or sustain.
How any competent developer can overnerf already gutted class again while addressing a valid concern about the swift. With this change sorcs can not chase or run away from swift users. Its seems like its compensation for stam for the adjustment.

Adding small flight time to frag time is a nerf and is clearly there to allow for easier roll dodge for stam. There is no other explanation

Finally no proc for frag out of combat. We have to be proactive on our defences and pre cast shields but cannot be proactive on offence because (ZOS) logic.

bardx86

Just think about how much damage a reflected frags plus all the proc sets a DK will use. They only have to cast wings to kill a sorc. Lame.

Krymzonbladez

Really don't understand this bull at all. Nerf dps of Sorc and their shielding( not to mention the shielding of every other class that uses light armor) but say they need to make sacrifices to be able to dps nerf their maneuverability so they can't gtfo when they need to. Just don't get why ZOS hates this class so much. Really don't understand the whole travel time for frags, as the closer you are to something the less distance it has to travel not to mention it's an ability with a cast time leaving you open with your useless shields, and now they can even more easily dodge the projectile and out run you while your mobility has been shot or crit through your useless shields that you now Have to stack.

I also posted this in the wrong thread a few moments ago. >.>

Didgerion

The shields are extremely hard to balance, especially when you have a class that totally rely on them for defense.

Shields not having resistance was a good solution to simplify the balance process.
Now with all that resistances....good luck balancing it.

As all you did now you made light armor even weaker as before, mobility on light armor did not improve, the cost of cc breaking, roll-dodging and root-freeing in light armor was not improved....how the light armor users need to survive now?

I guess heavy armor will be the temporary solution....but then you will start balancing it next DLC...really don't know what to do....

Apherius

NyxWrench wrote: »

Biro123 wrote:

One about hardened ward scaling.. are they saying that the increased size applies to both you and pets now?

They were talking about the difference between Hardened Ward I, Hardened Ward II, Hardened Ward III, and Hardened Ward IV. On live, the percentage boost over baseline increases from 20% to 23% as you rank it up, but they're removing that. Presumably it will be a flat +20% regardless of the rank.

It still improves the base shield strength as you rank up, though, but I'm not sure of the exact numbers. Perhaps it starts at 32% of magicka, and maxes at 35% magicka? Well, one of the devs said the calculation factor was 0.35, but since the rank-up is 3.3% higher than it should be (bug), it sounds like it caps at 0.31 instead of 0.30, which is completely different from the 0.35 factor. Was the 0.35 after the 20% boost? Such details are difficult to test.

Boundless? Really? You make this a must-have with the shield changes, then give it the biggest duration nerf out of all class mobility skills, with no cost reduction to compensate??

Warden actually had a larger nerf, with Falcon's Swiftness going from 10 seconds to 4.

0,48 for hardened, 0,35 for harness.

Galarthor

Derra wrote: »

ku5h wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

GoodFella146 wrote: »

So basically you just need a light attack to break my shield i paid 3k magicka for? Lol what skill

4k DK wings says hello and welcome to the club where your mitigation is nullified by free attacks.

Even though i wouldn't put wings and shields in the same category, since DK has a few other very potent defensive skills, I think that wings is amazing skill which tottaly shuts down ReachSorc and magBlade and you got snare immunity on it, lol.

It´s also the ultimate hypocrisy - because getting rid of wings with those free attacks means shooting oneself a minimum of 12k tooltip dmg back into the face.

Removing wings isn´t free. It´s shooting oneself and makes wings one of the highest dmg tooltips in the game.

But since all DKs seem to have prosecution complex that´s easily forgotten.

This is pretty much the only reason aside from the S&B meta I still run Force Pulse and Rune Cage. It sucks when you fight the other 70% (20% if you deduct perma dodgers since you cannot hit them) b/c nowadays this combo is very clunky, but at least I don't constantly shoot and stun myself.


Edit: Has anybody figured out how Bastion now works? Numbers are buggy, but at least we should see how it affects shields.

maboleth

Frags work as intended.

Feanor

maboleth wrote: »

Frags work as intended.

Erm. Please tell me you edited that.

grannas211

Feanor wrote: »

maboleth wrote: »

Frags work as intended.

Erm. Please tell me you edited that.

yes. Please dont be real life. Thats ridiculous

Gnozo

Feanor wrote: »

maboleth wrote: »

Frags work as intended.

Erm. Please tell me you edited that.

Ofc it is, look at the pet.

maboleth

Feanor wrote: »

maboleth wrote: »

Frags work as intended.

Erm. Please tell me you edited that.

Of course I did. I thought it was obvious. It is though how I feel about the slow-mo change ZOS trolled on us.

Feanor

maboleth wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

maboleth wrote: »

Frags work as intended.

Erm. Please tell me you edited that.

Of course I did. I thought it was obvious. It is though how I feel about the slow-mo change ZOS trolled on us.

You just never know these days.

Lord-Otto

Hm. The change to pets might make them less annoying in trials. Sucks for solo if they don't draw aggro, but whatever. Crit resist keeps them from being oneshot in Cyro. Still get twoshot...

More damage on Frags, that's cool and about effing time. Minimum ttavel time... I don't know how I feel about that. Needs testing. Since dodging is more difficult now, it might be a necessary thing in laggy situations. Messes up Rune Cage combos, though...

Mobility nerfs... Ehhh... I'll wait for the speed pot changes to judge this.
Shields at 40% HP are still too low. 50% would be more reasonable, 60% perfect for PvP.

katorga

Mobility nerfs... Ehhh... I'll wait for the speed pot changes to judge this.

You just know they are going to make major expedition the same duration as immovable.

Lord-Otto

katorga wrote: »

Mobility nerfs... Ehhh... I'll wait for the speed pot changes to judge this.

You just know they are going to make major expedition the same duration as immovable.

Yes, this seems the most likely one.

Bergzorn

With wards benefiting from armor resistances, Boundless Storm lookend finally interesting for open world PvP. Casting it about every 15 seconds would give you 100% uptime of the armor buff and a quite good uptime of Major Expedition at an affordable cost.

Combined with the new Grace passive, 3 x Swift, and the occasional Streak, one would have been able to make a good and fun Magsorc kiting build.

If Swift has to be nerfed, I can live with it. But they should have buffed the duration of Major Expedition you get from Boundless Storm and similar abillities. Four seconds is just not worth it.

Seriously, *** these trolls.

Miswar

They nerfed the Crystal frags as well? Lol

..first thought that was a bad joke but apparently not.

Come on ZoS. The frags travel already slow on LIVE server and are all but useless unless your opponent is utterly incompetent.

As for the shields... it seems nothing sensible forthcoming despite detailed critique!

Also they seem to be broken on the PTS server as well lol!

Who is the man behind these senseless changes on the combat team? Honestly curious because these do NOT make any sense whatsoever even on current LIVE.

Can that same person please login into LIVE server PvP and show us all noobs how mag sorcs are over performing at Cyrodiil!

I really want to see that person fight these tanky, bursty stam wardens, Stamplars and DK's. Guess what .. you will lose most of your fights on current LIVE server...

Already said that this shield thing is utter joke and should be reverted.

When is this murkmire DLC coming on consoles?

I have been trying to enjoy the game on LIVE server before me and many of my friends are taking very very long break from ESO if/when these nerfs hit LIVE.

Universe

@ZOS_Wrobel Please make it so that damage shields will not receive critical damage.
40% max health Shield cap+damage shields receive critical damage = Sorcerer will be very weak in PVP.
The shields resistances will mean almost nothing if a sorcerer is wearing 5 Light Armor and have low resistances.
Also, Shield stacking is already nerfed due to the fact that the first damage shield will be gone even before the second damage shield will take effect.
Magicka Sorcerers can be defeated without too much effort on the LIVE servers.
If both the shield cap+critical damage to shields will be implemented, Sorcerers will be nothing more than cannon fodder in PVP.
Furthermore, there is a need to increase the shield cap to at least 50% player's max health.
40% is not enough for PVP and PVE.

This is required:
PTS 3:
*We have reverted the change: "You can now deal a Critical Strike against an enemy with a damage shield."
You can no longer deal critical strike against an enemy with a damage shield.
*Conjured Ward: We have increased the total strength to 50% of caster's max health.
*Annulment: We have increased the total strength to 50% of caster's max health.
Developer Comment:

This change makes damage shields function properly while in PVP. Allowing damage shields to receive critical damage while they are already capped at 40% player's max health made them obsolete in PVP. This change will make them function as intended once more.
We have also increased the total strength of damage shields to 50% of caster's max health because we believe that 40% cap was not enough for the sorcerers to defend themselves in both PVP and PVE. Sorcerers can't have high health stat due to their style of gameplay which requires high magicka and the use of Light Armor.

Nicko_Lps

Derra wrote: »

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

SaKGEE wrote: »

new hardened ward in pvp, why would you add battle spirit to already dead shield?

@Derra

You said something yesterday? Yes its bugged PRE-battle spirit, but after?

It´s in the patchnotes that it´s bugged.

Zos_RobGarret showcased the math how it´s supposed to work. A 24k hp build (with battlespirit in those hp) is supposed to have a 9600 cap on their shields in cyrodiil.

Already know its bugged, said so but from 10k+ you claimed yesterday now youre down to 9k6?

One way or the other, shields are useless crittable + have resist + get major breach + affected by spriggans = 0 resistance + Crits unless we start running 1 pirate skelly piece + 1 chudan piece and loose (in my case) 1 domi + 1 illambris that means huge amount of damage loss + stamina. But hey, our frag proc deals +10% more dmg. Class is saved.

Wow.

25k hp in cyrodiil will get a 10k shield. The math showcased used the same calculation but with 24k hp which results in a 9.6k shield.
The maximum shieldsize you´ll see will be related to your HP. Get 26k hp - you´ll have 10400 max shield.

I have played this game 6 months in the launch and another 10 months now.

Both times taught me to not pay attention and trust what devs say or claim because forum whiners always win vs devs+players.


Still 5k or 9k or 10k have the same useless effect on sorcs that have 0 heals and 0 other defensives for reasons mentioned above plus a change that will force us to retrait our well fitted to impen.

The change was a clear "save magblade" in PvP that if youre right and im wrong they lost 2k or so shielding value while we lost 12k

the cap is per shield and only for annulment and conjure ward. you can still stack them. you didn´t lose 12k.

Really? Ive seen max absorption limit 40% per player.
If youre right its all ok

Biro123

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

SaKGEE wrote: »

new hardened ward in pvp, why would you add battle spirit to already dead shield?

@Derra

You said something yesterday? Yes its bugged PRE-battle spirit, but after?

It´s in the patchnotes that it´s bugged.

Zos_RobGarret showcased the math how it´s supposed to work. A 24k hp build (with battlespirit in those hp) is supposed to have a 9600 cap on their shields in cyrodiil.

Already know its bugged, said so but from 10k+ you claimed yesterday now youre down to 9k6?

One way or the other, shields are useless crittable + have resist + get major breach + affected by spriggans = 0 resistance + Crits unless we start running 1 pirate skelly piece + 1 chudan piece and loose (in my case) 1 domi + 1 illambris that means huge amount of damage loss + stamina. But hey, our frag proc deals +10% more dmg. Class is saved.

Wow.

25k hp in cyrodiil will get a 10k shield. The math showcased used the same calculation but with 24k hp which results in a 9.6k shield.
The maximum shieldsize you´ll see will be related to your HP. Get 26k hp - you´ll have 10400 max shield.

I have played this game 6 months in the launch and another 10 months now.

Both times taught me to not pay attention and trust what devs say or claim because forum whiners always win vs devs+players.


Still 5k or 9k or 10k have the same useless effect on sorcs that have 0 heals and 0 other defensives for reasons mentioned above plus a change that will force us to retrait our well fitted to impen.

The change was a clear "save magblade" in PvP that if youre right and im wrong they lost 2k or so shielding value while we lost 12k

the cap is per shield and only for annulment and conjure ward. you can still stack them. you didn´t lose 12k.

Really? Ive seen max absorption limit 40% per player.
If youre right its all ok

Yeah, they worded it really badly in the class-reps thread, then clarified it I some later posts hidden deep amongst everyone else's.