PTS Update 20 - Feedback Thread for Sorcerer

Feric51

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Feric51 wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

What about rebate now? It does nothing for stam sorcs, non-pet magsorcs and pve pet sorcs now. Can we finally change it to something useful that every sorc profits from?

Pets won't take damage only in the group content Rob listed. They will still be able to die in overland PvE, PvP, vMA, etc. It still exists, although I must admit my pets usually only die when I unsummon them upon entering a town/bank/trader, etc. So i'm not really getting much use of the passive as it is.

Okay, missed the vma part. But I still think petsorcs can bear the loss of rebate in overland content. This passive is just to niché now.

I agree. Good pet sorcs should never let their pet die in difficult content because the cast time to resummon might end up getting you dead. In other content, the minuscule resource return from the passive is so trivial it won't matter.

NyxWrench

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

NyxWrench wrote: »

Boundless? Really? You make this a must-have with the shield changes, then give it the biggest duration nerf out of all class mobility skills, with no cost reduction to compensate??

Warden actually had a larger nerf, with Falcon's Swiftness going from 10 seconds to 4.

But wardens also have better ways to heal, something that sorcs lack good options for. On one hand Zeni says we shouldn't rely on wards only but then they continue to nerf what else we could use to survive.

They designed the class in a way that screams mobility, yet they do everything they can to not allow us to be faster than others. Boundless nerfed, hurricane equalised by a single jewelry trait, streak got fatigue costs and is too easily countered by gap closers or simply sprint (if streak works at all. I don't even care to use it anymore when a pebble lies around). Plus we neither have snares nor snare removal on our own skill trees.

Seems like they don't want us to use shields (gutted), heals (don't have good heals) or mobility (equalised and nerfed). So what shall we do?

I was only correcting the mistaken assertion regarding who got the biggest duration nerf in these changes to major expedition. My reply to Biro123 has nothing to do with wards or healing or anything else.

ruikkarikun

Feric51 wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

What about rebate now? It does nothing for stam sorcs, non-pet magsorcs and pve pet sorcs now. Can we finally change it to something useful that every sorc profits from?

Pets won't take damage only in the group content Rob listed. They will still be able to die in overland PvE, PvP, vMA, etc. It still exists, although I must admit my pets usually only die when I unsummon them upon entering a town/bank/trader, etc. So i'm not really getting much use of the passive as it is.

Where did you read this? Can you give link.

Sebar80

Time for the first part of feedback for 4.2.2

Shields without cast time feels normal, the shield size and strength is negligible for survival in PVP however.

As of now PVP 40.9 magicka and 22.7 health shield size is 4700 on conjured ward, hardened ward does 5000.
If i am getting hit with so much as a stick the shield is burst in one shoot 20k spell resistance and 15k physical resistance, crit resist 1,1k.

In my opinion 300 extra shield is worth nothing and in every situation conjured is better for extra sustain. Plays well in Zerg

In PVE the shield is slightly bigger 7200 conjured and 7800 hardened on the same setup with same resistances still gone in one shoot unless its a crab or rat than maybe two.

Went in to Cyro no one there, BGs are not active not possible to test properly, only few duels and again as before sorc is minced meat in just few seconds. Weaker shields are not enough to go turn the fight around. Using streak same old problem. to outrun 1 gap closer i need two streaks cost vs benefit 8k magica for no benefit at all, recovery animation from streak is slow opponent can break and gap close you before you can cast second streak. unless enemy is complete potato and allows sorc to be constantly on offensive there is no way to win.

Sorc is now nominated to the circus freak in PVE and a zerg surfer in PVP.
As again excellent job ZOS, subscriptions already cancelled so not much else i can do.

Minalan

Sebar80 wrote: »

Time for the first part of feedback for 4.2.2

Shields without cast time feels normal, the shield size and strength is negligible for survival in PVP however.

As of now PVP 40.9 magicka and 22.7 health shield size is 4700 on conjured ward, hardened ward does 5000.
If i am getting hit with so much as a stick the shield is burst in one shoot 20k spell resistance and 15k physical resistance, crit resist 1,1k.

In my opinion 300 extra shield is worth nothing and in every situation conjured is better for extra sustain. Plays well in Zerg

In PVE the shield is slightly bigger 7200 conjured and 7800 hardened on the same setup with same resistances still gone in one shoot unless its a crab or rat than maybe two.

Went in to Cyro no one there, BGs are not active not possible to test properly, only few duels and again as before sorc is minced meat in just few seconds. Weaker shields are not enough to go turn the fight around. Using streak same old problem. to outrun 1 gap closer i need two streaks cost vs benefit 8k magica for no benefit at all, recovery animation from streak is slow opponent can break and gap close you before you can cast second streak. unless enemy is complete potato and allows sorc to be constantly on offensive there is no way to win.

Sorc is now nominated to the circus freak in PVE and a zerg surfer in PVP.
As again excellent job ZOS, subscriptions already cancelled so not much else i can do.

They acknowledged the shield cap and battle spirit issue, when fixed it should be about the same size as PVE.

Sebar80

Minalan wrote: »

Sebar80 wrote: »

Time for the first part of feedback for 4.2.2

Shields without cast time feels normal, the shield size and strength is negligible for survival in PVP however.

As of now PVP 40.9 magicka and 22.7 health shield size is 4700 on conjured ward, hardened ward does 5000.
If i am getting hit with so much as a stick the shield is burst in one shoot 20k spell resistance and 15k physical resistance, crit resist 1,1k.

In my opinion 300 extra shield is worth nothing and in every situation conjured is better for extra sustain. Plays well in Zerg

In PVE the shield is slightly bigger 7200 conjured and 7800 hardened on the same setup with same resistances still gone in one shoot unless its a crab or rat than maybe two.

Went in to Cyro no one there, BGs are not active not possible to test properly, only few duels and again as before sorc is minced meat in just few seconds. Weaker shields are not enough to go turn the fight around. Using streak same old problem. to outrun 1 gap closer i need two streaks cost vs benefit 8k magica for no benefit at all, recovery animation from streak is slow opponent can break and gap close you before you can cast second streak. unless enemy is complete potato and allows sorc to be constantly on offensive there is no way to win.

Sorc is now nominated to the circus freak in PVE and a zerg surfer in PVP.
As again excellent job ZOS, subscriptions already cancelled so not much else i can do.

They acknowledged the shield cap and battle spirit issue, when fixed it should be about the same size as PVE.

Still about the third of previous size and it seems almost anything in PVE one shoots it anyway, and pve monsters don't crit.

Also it begs the question how they released something broken like this for testing, we are going to get one more pts week and then they will released something complete broken to live. The sheer incompetence is just mind boggling.

There should be an emergency hot fix for PTS in the matter of hours, but no we will have to wait for the week while testing new crown items.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

grannas211 wrote: »

So whats the point of Hardened over Empowering Ward now?

Or take it one step further. Why run empowering over harness? If you build right, you can get harness to 40% of your health, and it ends up being almost free most of the time. I have the option of a virtually free non-class shield or a costly class shield that gives me minor intellect that are the same strength? Is this a joke?

Said it before and ill say it a gain. What does a sorc have that other classes dont in terms of defense. They cant cloak, their burst heal is either an interruptable channel or tied to a toggled pet which takes two bars, they dont have evasion, they have virtually no defensive major/minor buffs to speak of other than the same two everyone already has. Sorcs have gone from bad to dead in open world pvp. They will either need one hell of a pocket healer or to ride the zerg train spamming their execute. Not impressed....

Biro123

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

grannas211 wrote: »

So whats the point of Hardened over Empowering Ward now?

Or take it one step further. Why run empowering over harness? If you build right, you can get harness to 40% of your health, and it ends up being almost free most of the time. I have the option of a virtually free non-class shield or a costly class shield that gives me minor intellect that are the same strength? Is this a joke?

Said it before and ill say it a gain. What does a sorc have that other classes dont in terms of defense. They cant cloak, their burst heal is either an interruptable channel or tied to a toggled pet which takes two bars, they dont have evasion, they have virtually no defensive major/minor buffs to speak of other than the same two everyone already has. Sorcs have gone from bad to dead in open world pvp. They will either need one hell of a pocket healer or to ride the zerg train spamming their execute. Not impressed....

Of course, that's assuming they fix the execute!

Strider__Roshin

Guess it's pointless to test anything until they fix the shield bug.

Thraben

Feedback 4.2.2

General: The changes countering the "speed" meta are sufficient. Maybe people will be able to land a dizzy swing again.

MagSorc (healer):

a) Shield: I´m ok with the shield changes. I feel pity, though, for the light armor PvP sorcs.

b) Pets: The most pressing concern is the double bar issue. Rework the Sorc pets along the lines of the NB´s shade (duration: 60 seconds), and I could live with the loss of my beloved third OL bar as a Pet Sorc healer.

StamSorc (tank):

a) the coming Air Atronach´s duration should be determined by the invested Ulti: 50 Ulti für 5 seconds, 100 Ulti for 10 seconds, and so on. It´s still no Incap, but would actually have a purpose. Maybe with the synergy´s buff provided to the caster for x seconds.

b) Bound Armaments: I know many StamSorc who wish to have the option to show the old Bound Armor again while others don´t share that enthusiasm. No matter what, the skill´s duration of 3 seconds is too short. Either change it so it grants a weak version of Meridia´s Blessed Armor, or do something else with that skill: I´d prefer a chance to to summon a Dremora Lord (Aurorans would fit better to the lore and class, though) when the activated bound armor is being hit who attacks the attacker and applies the concussed status effect - so that the Sorc Tanks' support role is improved.

Non- Tank StamSorc would probably prefer a Bound Weapon strike on activation, something like a summoned version of the Dizzy Swing.

c) Overload favors heavily MagSorcs due to the lack of viable stamina based sources of Empower, which would force us to use the new crafting set in conjunction with a playstyle more akin to a 7th legion Stam DK - which is not something many StamSorc look forward to. I´d still prefer to keep the third bar and allow conjured versions of Weapon Skills on it. Since their passives won´t apply, they would be worse than the real weapon skills, but they would increase the flexibility of the class greatly. Alternative changes, like fighting with empower fists, were suggested by other StamSorcs, and I´d like to mention them as well.

maboleth

Frags proc seems a bit slo-mo now...

Urvoth

So frags gets slower when it already was quite slow, our movement(which is already way lower than stam classes when we are supposed to be a mobile class) gets a massive nerf, and shields are 60% less and critable. It just gets worse and worse. ZOS is literally trying their hardest to kill the class...

Sure, pets got a buff but they're trash(except the atro) in PvP and endgame PVE. Plus half the sorcs don't even like using pets.

Vahrokh

Feric51 wrote: »

BrightOblivion wrote: »

iDeadly_CTSV wrote: »

Pets: The 0 damage change is good for boss fights that they die alot which makes them better. Some other changes that would make them less of an Eww another pet sorc would be removing the stun from the pulse (annoying for tanks to chain and manage ads), Chain lightning from AA HM (spreads chain lightning like the plague) , storms from asylum (just overall an issue)

I absolutely agree. In PvE at least, the stun just seems to be more of an irritant than actually something where I'm like "Yay! A stun!" It just serves to mess up tank pulls or strats like pulling Yokeda Kai and his copies into that hallway (I can't pulse my pet at all during that fight, because I have no idea what's going to be happening when he goes "Aaaaand stunned.") Maybe it's better in PvP land, but it just seems unpredictable and not really reliable.

I didn't really notice the scamp spreading chain lightning, but the Storm Atro totally still does. Also, I really wish they'd do something about him turning completely solid (can't DPS through him) as he despawns.

One thing I noticed, and maybe @ZOS_RobGarrett can answer, is that it specifies "Group Arenas." Does that mean that, in vMA (which is a solo arena), they still get bopped by the damages?

I would assume that's exactly what it means. Pet sorcs are already one of the easiest classes to go through vMA with (I'm a half-burro pet sorc main), and not needing to worry about your pets taking any damage in vMA would make it even easier.

Although this does make soloing group dungeons even more appealing as a pet sorc.

Not at all. Because what made pet sorc good in group dungeons were the pets taking aggro. Now they don't any more and the sorc with nerfed shields goes splat.

Vahrokh

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

grannas211 wrote: »

So whats the point of Hardened over Empowering Ward now?

Or take it one step further. Why run empowering over harness? If you build right, you can get harness to 40% of your health, and it ends up being almost free most of the time. I have the option of a virtually free non-class shield or a costly class shield that gives me minor intellect that are the same strength? Is this a joke?

No, it was the last nerf needed to force us to just give up on all our class skills and lose our identity.

It's almost like they want to implement a sort of Kalergi plan on classes, sorcs being the most dramatically hit by that.

waitwhat

Vahrokh wrote: »

Feric51 wrote: »

BrightOblivion wrote: »

iDeadly_CTSV wrote: »

Pets: The 0 damage change is good for boss fights that they die alot which makes them better. Some other changes that would make them less of an Eww another pet sorc would be removing the stun from the pulse (annoying for tanks to chain and manage ads), Chain lightning from AA HM (spreads chain lightning like the plague) , storms from asylum (just overall an issue)

I absolutely agree. In PvE at least, the stun just seems to be more of an irritant than actually something where I'm like "Yay! A stun!" It just serves to mess up tank pulls or strats like pulling Yokeda Kai and his copies into that hallway (I can't pulse my pet at all during that fight, because I have no idea what's going to be happening when he goes "Aaaaand stunned.") Maybe it's better in PvP land, but it just seems unpredictable and not really reliable.

I didn't really notice the scamp spreading chain lightning, but the Storm Atro totally still does. Also, I really wish they'd do something about him turning completely solid (can't DPS through him) as he despawns.

One thing I noticed, and maybe @ZOS_RobGarrett can answer, is that it specifies "Group Arenas." Does that mean that, in vMA (which is a solo arena), they still get bopped by the damages?

I would assume that's exactly what it means. Pet sorcs are already one of the easiest classes to go through vMA with (I'm a half-burro pet sorc main), and not needing to worry about your pets taking any damage in vMA would make it even easier.

Although this does make soloing group dungeons even more appealing as a pet sorc.

Not at all. Because what made pet sorc good in group dungeons were the pets taking aggro. Now they don't any more and the sorc with nerfed shields goes splat.

I think the pets will still hold aggro if an enemy NPC focuses on them. They've never taunted of course, but NPCs will still attack them even if they don't take damage.

Vahrokh

waitwhat wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Feric51 wrote: »

BrightOblivion wrote: »

iDeadly_CTSV wrote: »

Pets: The 0 damage change is good for boss fights that they die alot which makes them better. Some other changes that would make them less of an Eww another pet sorc would be removing the stun from the pulse (annoying for tanks to chain and manage ads), Chain lightning from AA HM (spreads chain lightning like the plague) , storms from asylum (just overall an issue)

I absolutely agree. In PvE at least, the stun just seems to be more of an irritant than actually something where I'm like "Yay! A stun!" It just serves to mess up tank pulls or strats like pulling Yokeda Kai and his copies into that hallway (I can't pulse my pet at all during that fight, because I have no idea what's going to be happening when he goes "Aaaaand stunned.") Maybe it's better in PvP land, but it just seems unpredictable and not really reliable.

I didn't really notice the scamp spreading chain lightning, but the Storm Atro totally still does. Also, I really wish they'd do something about him turning completely solid (can't DPS through him) as he despawns.

One thing I noticed, and maybe @ZOS_RobGarrett can answer, is that it specifies "Group Arenas." Does that mean that, in vMA (which is a solo arena), they still get bopped by the damages?

I would assume that's exactly what it means. Pet sorcs are already one of the easiest classes to go through vMA with (I'm a half-burro pet sorc main), and not needing to worry about your pets taking any damage in vMA would make it even easier.

Although this does make soloing group dungeons even more appealing as a pet sorc.

Not at all. Because what made pet sorc good in group dungeons were the pets taking aggro. Now they don't any more and the sorc with nerfed shields goes splat.

I think the pets will still hold aggro if an enemy NPC focuses on them. They've never taunted of course, but NPCs will still attack them even if they don't take damage.

We do so much random AoE damage that we'll steal that little aggro they'd even get.

Kova

What? Why?

Guys, just admit there's a dart board in your office with nerfs and buffs on it. I was feeling so positive when they announced the shield rollback, and then crushed when I found out it was a 40% cap. Now this too? Why wasn't this in the original patch?

What is a sorc now? Can't be a glass cannon because our main source of burst now has sssssllloooooommooooooo. Can't be defensive because of shield nerfs, blink nerfs, and dependence on light armor.

Just delete the fetching class, please.

Revokus

I honestly don't know what to say...how anyone can put their faith in ZOS is beyond me. They truly outdid themselves.

SirLeeMinion

Kova wrote: »

Just delete the fetching class, please.

Maybe rebate could be re-worked to give a crafting bonus? Perhaps something like like needing one less temper material to upgrade. It would be helpful and would line up well with the other changes in this patch.

taco_suave

This is utterly ridiculous. The shield issue is a joke, but the nerfs to boundless and especially frags is just over the top. Seriously. Why is ZOS out to destroy this class?

I'm too insulted to bother rolling a stam class. /unsub

ruikkarikun

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RobGarrett @ZOS_Wrobel @ZOS_Finn @ZOS_MattFiror
Feedback 4.2.2

Each patch notes you just more and more sending sorcerer to the ground. Even more then into the ground, Just useless class, useless shields, useless pets. Yes another nerf like they can't taunt now? Nerf to solo game.
Hardened ward? Useless morph. You nerfed main defence and compensate it with what? Did you add some alternative?

Magicka nightblades facerolling vMA, dungeons any content and you decided to kill sorcerer? Where is the connection?

What reaction do you expect after you made sorcerer "trash class"? What reaction do you expect for nerfs?

I see a few

• quitting from tha game
• stopping to pay money for your company

Simple as it is. No? What other you can expect after making class weaker and garbage?

Please record a video where you (developers) run any vet DLC dungeon with this sorc on PTS. I want to see how you will survive there. Oh and that comedy with healers. Nerfing dds for making healer is top desicion, while in every mmo the majority of players are dds.

Seriously, what buff you gave us from all this patch notes? Decreasing pets costs? laugh.
While in notes you said yes we know sorcerer has problem with sustain and selfheal what did you do? Nerf shields and add ZERO solutions and buffs.

Questions which I asked and didn't get any answers:

• Stamina dps with 16k health (Berserking Warrior + Relequen or any other setups), all in dmg, weapon glyphs, infused and bloodthirsty, all max stamina, all cp to damage.
  Why those stamina glasscannon dds don't need to invest ANYTHING TO DEFENCE, ANY SACRIFACES FOR DEFENCE ON LIVE AND NEXT UPDATE? And sorcerer need? WHY? LOGIC?
• There were a lot of videos, detailed posts with amazing proofs and calculations that sorcerer was nerfed too much and too hard, but this is just nothing for you right? No reaction I see in patch notes. Like speaking with wall? Can you give us clear answer why after situation where a lot of people do not agree with your desicions you are not just keep nerfing but also making more huge nerfs? I mean those people are your customers, and you don't care they will quit or will stop play, pay money to you? Because I don't see another way how it when company don't want to listen to clients.

If you want to make sorcerer garbage class just say it to us, it will be fair to people who spend money to this company.
Then we can quit and sgo play to another game and stop to asking questions to you.

PS

I remember watched Bethesda stream where @ZOS_MattFiror said about best MMO game, best community, etc, isn'y it a joke yes? Because so much nerfs is like...don't have any words to be honest.

Galarthor

ruikkarikun wrote: »

Magicka nightblades facerolling vMA, dungeons any content and you decided to kill sorcerer? Where is the connection?

They both use magicka!
A crime in and of itself in the striven for stamina meta.

Heymexa

4.2.2

PVP
The shields are buggy. Vivec. 24hp. Harnes Magicka 12k. Empowered ward 4700. What?
Crystal Fragments. You can drink a cup of tea while the fragment flies.

PVE
Overload. New damage is too small to justify the use of this ability in rotation. Any other ultimate ability will give more.
Overload. The animation of this ability is longer than the animation of the light attack. This is very difficult, makes rotation difficult.

Susteyn ..... (a lot of dirty words).

KramUzibra

Hold on sheilds are critable now!?

Somewhere

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

grannas211 wrote: »

So whats the point of Hardened over Empowering Ward now?

Or take it one step further. Why run empowering over harness? If you build right, you can get harness to 40% of your health, and it ends up being almost free most of the time. I have the option of a virtually free non-class shield or a costly class shield that gives me minor intellect that are the same strength? Is this a joke?

Said it before and ill say it a gain. What does a sorc have that other classes dont in terms of defense. They cant cloak, their burst heal is either an interruptable channel or tied to a toggled pet which takes two bars, they dont have evasion, they have virtually no defensive major/minor buffs to speak of other than the same two everyone already has. Sorcs have gone from bad to dead in open world pvp. They will either need one hell of a pocket healer or to ride the zerg train spamming their execute. Not impressed....

Don't say that too loudly. ZOS will just nerf harness magicka to be much worse to make sorc shields seem better.

Witar

Feric51 wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Feric51 wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

What about rebate now? It does nothing for stam sorcs, non-pet magsorcs and pve pet sorcs now. Can we finally change it to something useful that every sorc profits from?

Pets won't take damage only in the group content Rob listed. They will still be able to die in overland PvE, PvP, vMA, etc. It still exists, although I must admit my pets usually only die when I unsummon them upon entering a town/bank/trader, etc. So i'm not really getting much use of the passive as it is.

Okay, missed the vma part. But I still think petsorcs can bear the loss of rebate in overland content. This passive is just to niché now.

I agree. Good pet sorcs should never let their pet die in difficult content because the cast time to resummon might end up getting you dead. In other content, the minuscule resource return from the passive is so trivial it won't matter.

You know that pets act like a brain dead dolls in some trials, right? Mol for example. Often just standing in one place doing nothing on final boss. So just them not dying won't fix anything to make them reliable in endgame content.

Nicko_Lps

SaKGEE wrote: »

new hardened ward in pvp, why would you add battle spirit to already dead shield?

@Derra

You said something yesterday? Yes its bugged PRE-battle spirit, but after?

NBrookus

GoodFella146 wrote: »

So basically you just need a light attack to break my shield i paid 3k magicka for? Lol what skill

4k DK wings says hello and welcome to the club where your mitigation is nullified by free attacks.

ku5h

NBrookus wrote: »

GoodFella146 wrote: »

So basically you just need a light attack to break my shield i paid 3k magicka for? Lol what skill

4k DK wings says hello and welcome to the club where your mitigation is nullified by free attacks.

Even though i wouldn't put wings and shields in the same category, since DK has a few other very potent defensive skills, I think that wings is amazing skill which tottaly shuts down ReachSorc and magBlade and you got snare immunity on it, lol.

FrancisCrawford

Boundless Storm was another of the class' fun/cool skills. It hasn't actually been much use in PvE for a long time, if ever, but it was cool. Now that it might actually be more useful, because it doesn't conflict with shields, it's becoming less fun. Figures ...