[Class Rep] Sorcerer Feedback Thread

gpiolettipreeb18_ESO

Hi all, it's long time i want to make this post.
I've been into this game since beta and StamSorc it's my main since 3 years, i agree with last changes and nerf to Dark Deal and Overload 3rd bar but after those changes a redesign of this class is mandatory because we are going to have even less buffs and chances to survive.

I'm writing all this text because i hope it will help to improve this game, i've appreciated many changes made by ZOS and i'm pretty sure you'll think also to sorc...if you finally nerfed shields after 4 years, we can always hope!
I'm sorry if i made some mistakes, please tell me.

I made 4 tables to compare all stamina classes:
Into those tables i've put all Stamina relevant passives, stamina morph of skills and some magicka skills which you don't need to spam and you can sustain on a stamina char, tha's why you'll se Crit Surge and not Streak or Toppling Charge.

I'll draw my own conclusion first so those who don't want to read the wall of text are free to stop here, at the end you'll find all the 4 tables with the name of the skills taken in account.
Table 1 – Buffs
Warden and Nightblade both shine here, they got 10 official buffs and keep being buffed every patch.
Dragonknight and Templars follow with half the buffes, luckly Templars got buffed this patch.
Sorcerer is the last one and, apart from generic buffs like Major Ward and Major Resolve, we only get Minor Expedition...nothing compared to classes who got Mending, Berserk or Protection.

Table 2 – Debuffs
Again Warden and Nightblade to the very top with all the best debuffs into the game.
Dragonknight and Templars follow with minor things.
Sorcerer got nothing.

Table 3 – Generic Boons
Here things changes a bit.
Templars and Dragonknight are the best with bonus to nearly everything.
Sorcerers are finally average with some regen and reduce costs, but again nothing important like buffs to defences or healing, and a buff to damage which is useless since we need to use only weapon skill on our main damage bar and can't slot more than one or two class skills.
Warden and Nightblade are at the end, but not that much.

Table 4 – Class Skills
This table is different because you can usually have only one buff, a second of the same will overwrite, while you can have multiple skills with the same effect.
Here Wardens are at the top of the food chain (and of course of the fun), they have everything: ultimate, spammable skills, CCs endless regen.
Dragonknight and Nightblade follow very close with full of utilities, even if Dks still lack of a true spammable attack but at least got many Dots, powerfull ulties and lot of regen and defences.
Templars are behind and i repeat luckly they got buffed last patch.
Last AND Least Sorcerers with just Hurricane and Implosion to shine, no defences, no healing or sustain apart Dark Deal which is cast time and interruptable nothing compared to Bully Netch or whatever.

So after this comparison don't be surprised when you see many stamblade and stamwarden around, to be honest i dont want to change.
I mean i have every stam class maxed and i could start playing stamden, but I LIKE my stamsorc, i dont want to cast flowers and trees, i like hurricanes and thunders!
What i dont like is to be pushed to play something i dislike only because it's 200% more powerfull, please i bought your game, Morrowind and Summerset aswell...i dont want nobody to be nerfed, only that you make justice of a huge difference that even a blind man would see.

Thank you.

Follow tables

Table 1 – Buffs
Warden
Buffs (10): Major Mending, Major Endurance, Minor Toughness, Major Ward, Major Resolve, Minor Evasion, Major Expedition, Major Heroism, Minor Berserk, Minor Protection
Skills: Falcon’s Swiftness (active), Green Lotus (active), Accelerated Growth (passive), Ice Fortress (active), Shimmering Shield (active), Maturation (passive).
Nightblade
Buffs (10): Major Brutality, Minor Endurance, Major Ward, Major Resolve, Major Evasion, Major Expedition, Major Berserk, Minor Berserk, Minor Savagery, Minor Protection
Skills: Reaper’s Mark (active), Relentless Focus (active), Power Extraction (active), Hemorrhage (passive), Shadow Barrier (passive), Dark Cloak (active), Double take (active).
Templar
Buffs (6): Minor Mending, Major Ward, Major Resolve, Major Savagery, Major Protection, Minor Protection
Skills: Biting Jabs (active), Sacred Ground (passive), Restoring Focus (active), Empowering Sweep (ultimate).
Dragonknight
Buffs (5): Major Brutality, Minor Brutality, Major Mending, Major Ward, Major Resolve
Skills: Hardened Armor (active), Igneous Weapons (active), Mountain’s Blessing (Passive), Fragmented Shield (active).
Sorcerer
Buffs (4): Major Brutality, Major Ward, Major Resolve, Minor Expetition
Skills: Critical Surge (active), Hurricane (active).


Table 2 – Debuffs
Nightblade
Debuffs (3): Major Fracture, Major Defile, Minor Maim.
Skills: Reaper’s Mark (active), Surprise attack (active), Mass Hysteria (active), Incapacitating Strike (ultimate).
Warden
Debuffs (2): Major Fracture, Minor Lifesteal.
Skills: Subterranean Assault (active), Leeching Vines (active).
Dragonknight
Debuffs (1): Major Fracture.
Skills: Noxious Breath (active).
Templar
Debuffs (1): Minor Fracture.
Skills: Power of the Light (active).
Sorcerer
Debuffs (0): .

Table 3 – Generic Boons
Templar
Bonus (11): Health regen, Stamina regen, Magika regen, Ulti. regen, Ulti. reduce cost, Stamina reduce cost, Magika reduce cost, Bonus to critical, Bonus to damage, Bonus to healing, Bonus to resistances.
Skills: Piercing Spear (Passive), Balanced Warrior (passive), Prism (Passive), Restoring Spirit (Passive), Mending (passive), Repentance (active).
Dragonknight
Bonus (8): Max Stats, Health regen, Stamina regen, Ulti. regen, Stamina reduce cost, Bonus to damage, Bonus to healing, Bonus to resistances.
Skills: Searing Heat (passive), World in Ruin (passive), Burning Hearth (passive), Scaled Armor (passive), Elder Dragon (passive), Elder Dragon (passive), Mountain’s Blessing (Passive).
Sorcerer
Bonus (8): Max Stats, Health regen, Stamina regen, Magika regen, Ulti. reduce cost, Stamina reduce cost, Magika reduce cost, Bonus to damage.
Skills: Daedric protection (passive), Bound armaments (active), Energized (passive), Expert Mage (passive) irrelevant since Stam.Sorc. needs to use weapon skill on his main dmg bar), Power Stone (passive), Unholy Knowledge (passive).
Warden
Bonus (6): Stamina regen, Magika regen, Ulti. regen, Bonus to damage, Bonus to healing, Bonus to resistances.
Skills: Savage Beast (Passive), Flourish (Passive), Advanced Species (Passive), Emerald Moss (passive), Frozen Armor (passive).
Nightblade
Bonus (5): Max Stats, Health regen, Stamina regen, Magika regen, Ulti. regen.
Skills: Master Assassin (passive), Pressure Point (passive), Hemorrhage (passive), Refreshing Shadows (passive), Transfer (passive).

Table 4 – Class Skills
Warden: 14
Nightblade: 12
Dragonknight: 11
Templar: 9
Sorcerer: 6

Main Spammable
Warden: Cutting Dive (active), Subterranean Assault (active).
Nightblade: Surprise attack (active).
Templar: Biting Jabs (active).
Sorcerer: No
Dragonknight: No

Gapcloser
Nightblade: Ambush (active).
Templar: No
Sorcerer: No
Dragonknight: No
Warden: No

Dot
Dragonknight: Venomous Claw (active), Noxious Breath (active).
Sorcerer: Hurricane (active).
Templar: Power of the Light (active).
Nightblade: No
Warden: No

Regen Skill
Dragonknight: Combustion (passive), Battle Roar (passive), Helping Hands (passive).
Nightblade: Executioner (passive), Leeching Strikes (active), Catalyst (passive).
Warden: Bull Netch (active), Nature’s Gift (passive).
Sorcerer: Dark Deal (active), Capacitor (passive).
Templar: Restoring Focus (active).

Snares and CCs
Dragonknight: Take Flight (ultimate), Warmth (passive).
Nightblade: Incapacitating Strike (ultimate), Mass Hysteria (active).
Templar: Binding Javelin (active), Sacred Ground (passive).
Warden: Permafrost (ultimate), Glacial Presence (passive).
Sorcerer: No

Defense and Heals
Warden: Shooting Spores (active), Leeching Vines (active), Shimmering Shield (active), Green Lotus (active), Icy Aura (passive).
Nightblade: Double take (active), Dark Cloak (active), Shadow Image (actrive)
Dragonknight: Iron Skin (passive), Fragmented Shield (active).
Templar: Extended Ritual (active), Repentance (active).
Sorcerer: Critical Surge (active), Dark Deal (active).

Ultimate
Warden: Wild Guardian, Permafrost, Healing Thicket.
Dragonknight: Take Flight, Corrosive Armor.
Nightblade: Incapacitating Strike
Templar: Empowering Sweep
Sorcerer: No

Execute
Sorcerer: Implosion (passive).
Nightblade: Killer’s Blade (active).
Templar: Burning Light (Passive).
Dragonknight: No
Warden: No

Vahrokh

anatole1234 wrote: »

People Seem to forget that sorc has access to a Breath of Life equivalent : Twilight Matriarch. Although I would love for sorc's pet to be castable and not toggeable to make it more consistent with other classes and not waste a skill spot . Let's be real for a second : shield stacking has been a massive issue since day one. Already working on a heavy armor magicka sorc to show it won't be the death of the class.

You seem to forget that BoL does not die in 2 hits and - most of all - does not need pet specced shields to be spammed to not die immediately.

Nicko_Lps

anatole1234 wrote: »

People Seem to forget that sorc has access to a Breath of Life equivalent : Twilight Matriarch. Although I would love for sorc's pet to be castable and not toggeable to make it more consistent with other classes and not waste a skill spot . Let's be real for a second : shield stacking has been a massive issue since day one. Already working on a heavy armor magicka sorc to show it won't be the death of the class.

Shield stacking is the only defense magsorcs have and that is a problem to you after nerfs:

1) Shield strength reduced 50%
2) shield time reduced
3) magica harness nerfed to ONLY magic damage
4) magica harness nerfed to only 3 times magic damage
5) CP that counters shields giving a massive damage boost vs shielded enemies
6) shield breaker for an extra glimpse of skyrim life
7) oblivion damage in glyphs/sets


How many more nerfs shields need to make special snowflakes satisfied?


While most classes have MANY defensives + can mitigate damage in many ways sorc can only shield.
The changes are killing magsorc class, magsorc have NOT a dps constant like DK's have a heavy armor sorc will still be a dead sorc because he cannot apply any pressure to the enemy.



The revenge to ALL the forum whines is NO sorc in cyrodiil anymore, you are going to SUFFER from zergs that they will keep farming you all without nobody negating them. At least im gonna be laughing with this as i will go back to WoW when these atrocities called "class balance" gets live

Chilly-McFreeze

anatole1234 wrote: »

People Seem to forget that sorc has access to a Breath of Life equivalent : Twilight Matriarch. Although I would love for sorc's pet to be castable and not toggeable to make it more consistent with other classes and not waste a skill spot . Let's be real for a second : shield stacking has been a massive issue since day one. Already working on a heavy armor magicka sorc to show it won't be the death of the class.

@anatole1234 do you post that in every sorc thread? I'm just gonna quote my answer to that "advise" from the PTS thread

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

anatole1234 wrote: »

People Seem to forget that sorc has access to a Breath of Life equivalent : Twilight Matriarch. Although I would love for sorc's pet to be castable and not toggeable to make it more consistent with other classes and not waste a skill spot . Let's be real for a second : shield stacking has been a massive issue since day one. Already working on a heavy armor magicka sorc to show it won't be the death of the class.

I'm waiting for your results. Not like people didn't already tried to make a no-shields magsorc work.

But short question: how do you keep the twilight alive without instant wards? And where do you put all your skills when your two bars are riddled with toggles and your OL bar is gone?

Aedaryl

@anatole1234

My genius, can you tell me how you will protect your matriarch, the one without defensive cps and less than 20k resistance with a 1s cast time criticable hardened ward ?

Apherius

I will copy paste that here, I won't talk about shields.

Overload:

The idea is interesting but it could get some additional changes.

• Make it deplete 5/10 ultimates every 1/2 seconds, it should reward skilful rotation. If your weaving is perfect you would make better use of this ultimate, get better damage and restore more magicka.
  Let's imagine you have 170 ultimate, the choice between an atronach and overload should be interesting ... Overload should deal more damage than the atronach IF your weaving is perfect ( + help with sustain ) WHILE atronach would be useful IF you can't weave properly or want to play a pet build or/and don't have any sustain issue and so want to grant major berserk to 1 ally.
• overload proc enchantment of the bar you are currently on ( this is a nice thing ) ... make it so your right hand hold the staff and do a LA while the other hand could do an OL LA if the ultimate is active ( both would hit at the same time )
• What about the morphs ? One give 1K magicka each time you do an OL LA, the other morph increase the LA range and the HA radius, nobody care about OL HA, and the increased range on OL LA is not needed since the base range is the same as a standard LA = it mean you don't need to get closer to the boss when you active the ultimate ... They should better merge both morphs into one and keep the 3rd bar on a morph ( the 3rd bar is really useful and unique on both stam and magsorc for PVP ).
• About the OL HA, Nobody is gonna use that ... I would prefer to charge the ultimate on trash and keep it for boss, I don't think i'm the only one. They should better make it a beam we could use on atronach or pets increasing their damage during X sec or a Dot ... Anything.

Pets

Pets take two bar slots, stucks behind wall and under the floor, triggers mechanics in Vas and VAA, CC and prevent grab, these are the firsts pet pain points and the reason you can't bring them in raid

• Scamp and daedric prey both cost 500 less magicka, i's interesting ! Thank for this change.
• The tormentor change is laughable, the few players who play a pets build in pve and pvp prefer the Matriarch morph , 15% reduced cost on tormentor special attack isn't gonna make it interesting when the special attack we are talking about is beyond uselessness.

Dark Conversion

I'm still wondering if it's supposed to be a buff or a nerf. How much is that ? 8K health + 2400 magicka instant then 2400 magicka over 20 sec ( = 120 magicka each sec). It's supposed to help sorc with sustain ? ( because it's not better than the previous version, it's even worse ) Or it's just a PVP nerf ? A Developer Comment is needed.

• if your goal is to make it interesting in both PVE and PVP, here is an idea (not the best):
  " Dark Conversion: Cost 2000 stamina ~ Cast-T : Instant ~ Duration: 20,4 sec ~ Self : Bargain with darkness, restore 8K health and 4696 Magicka after 1,2 sec. [ Then restore 1100 health and 230 magicka each 1,2 sec during 19,2 sec. After 1,2 the skill deplete 350 stamina each second, until you run out of stamina or the ability is toggled off]. You can be interrupted within 1,2 sec after you used the ability, in this case it won't restore the cost of the skill.
  
  Or Same thing But restore 2500 magicka after 1,2 sec instead of 4696 and you won't lose 2000 stamina if someone interrupt you
  I really like this idea, make it a toogle like mend wound ( requiered on one bar only), toggle the skill on ... wait 1,2 sec then toggle it off, and repeat if you only care about the first part of the skill, or keep it on and it will start draining your stamina while restoring your health and magicka each 1,2 sec after 1,2 sec.
  
  
• Dark Conversion: Cost 2250 stamina ~ Cast-T : Instant ~ Self : Bargain with darkness, restore 8K health and 4696 Magicka after 1,2 sec. and 2500 magicka over 20 second. you can be interrupted within 1,2 sec after you used the ability, in this case it won't restore the cost of the skill.
  
  Or Same thing But restore 2500 magicka after 1,2 sec instead of 4696, cost 2000 stamina, and you won't lose 2000 stamina if someone interrupt you
  ( This would make the ability useful in PVE cause the cast time is the main problem ) and keep it useful in PVP.

Rune cage

Class Reps Meeting Notes - August 16 wrote: »

Initial and early feedback for Sorcerers is that their class is walking in place with the buff-nerf cycle to Rune Prison.

Seriously ? a new visual effect will display on the target to indicate this effect during 1,2 sec before it stun the target ?! Do you really think increasing the damage and the stun by 22% and 1 sec is gonna help ?

• Most of the time you won't stun anyone with that ... If you stun someone they will break free easily within 3 sec ... And if they break free it won't deal any damage ... make it deal deal damage when the stun ends ( even if the target break free) would be a good step, even though I don't think it would worth slotting ... Clench is better and can be used instead force pulse ... and with all the nerf coming ( shields, 3rd bar gone ) we will need a lot of bar slot !

Crystal

Good change but not enough, atleast our main skill escaped the 1st PTS nerf wave.

Bound armor

Class Reps Meeting Notes - August 16 wrote: »

Bound Armor needs to be more worthwhile

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/428310/sorcs-do-you-use-the-active-effect-of-bound-armor/p1

Why ? Add this block mitigation bonus in " Rebate " when we active bound armor ... or give us another bonus when we active Bound Aegis

• Bound Aegis: Cost 3443 magicka ( reduce the cost ? ): Protect yourself and your pets ( cooool ) with the power of Oblivion, Creating a suit of Daedric mail for you and your pets that increases your block mitigation by 36% for 3 seconds, also anchor your Daedric Familiar in Tamriel during 42 sec. While slotted, your Max [...]
  
  Isn't that cool ? " Anchor " mean you would not need them on Both bar ... If you don't refresh the buff you will need to reactive the pet, it's the risk and it reward skilful rotation. Of course they would need to slightly change the pet ( see below).
  If you have the scamp or the twillight on 1 bar and barswitch ... they would just stand where they are " screaming" during 1 sec then dissapear unless you active bound aegis or barswitch )

mojomood

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

anatole1234 wrote: »

People Seem to forget that sorc has access to a Breath of Life equivalent : Twilight Matriarch. Although I would love for sorc's pet to be castable and not toggeable to make it more consistent with other classes and not waste a skill spot . Let's be real for a second : shield stacking has been a massive issue since day one. Already working on a heavy armor magicka sorc to show it won't be the death of the class.

Shield stacking is the only defense magsorcs have and that is a problem to you after nerfs:

1) Shield strength reduced 50%
2) shield time reduced
3) magica harness nerfed to ONLY magic damage
4) magica harness nerfed to only 3 times magic damage
5) CP that counters shields giving a massive damage boost vs shielded enemies
6) shield breaker for an extra glimpse of skyrim life
7) oblivion damage in glyphs/sets


How many more nerfs shields need to make special snowflakes satisfied?


While most classes have MANY defensives + can mitigate damage in many ways sorc can only shield.
The changes are killing magsorc class, magsorc have NOT a dps constant like DK's have a heavy armor sorc will still be a dead sorc because he cannot apply any pressure to the enemy.



The revenge to ALL the forum whines is NO sorc in cyrodiil anymore, you are going to SUFFER from zergs that they will keep farming you all without nobody negating them. At least im gonna be laughing with this as i will go back to WoW when these atrocities called "class balance" gets live

Snowflake detected.

mojomood

Class Reps:

With the impending shield nerf, specs (and all magic users) need access to snare immunity and speed/power/magicka restore potions. Stam is king in Cyrodiil and it's not even close. According to the survey that the Class Reps put out 6 weeks ago, magsorc was the last magicka toon performing as well as stamden/stamblade/stamsorc in open world cyrodiil. That will no longer be the case. This will be the stam patch. Please start working now on getting a magicka skill of equal cost to Forward Momentum that gives snare immunity for 8 seconds and speed/spell power/magicka restore potions.

Adernath

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

1) Shield strength reduced 50%
2) shield time reduced
3) magica harness nerfed to ONLY magic damage
4) magica harness nerfed to only 3 times magic damage
5) CP that counters shields giving a massive damage boost vs shielded enemies
6) shield breaker for an extra glimpse of skyrim life
7) oblivion damage in glyphs/sets
How many more nerfs shields need to make special snowflakes satisfied?

That's actually a good summary of what happened due to constant QQing on the forums about shields.

Shields should be buffed instead, they are extremely weak in PvP already. Most of the above changes were not necessary, and the most recent idea to add a cast time is just ridiculous and simply fits into the general picture that there is apparently no clue about such a playstyle, using magicka resources with shields as main defense, in the first place.

All what is required is a better indication of the strength of the shield. If the HP of an opponent is full or low this is directly visible, but if you cast a shield, and you are not using any addons, it looks like all damage is mitigated somehow without compensation, leading to this endless QQ train of inexperienced players.

bardx86

Adernath wrote: »

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

1) Shield strength reduced 50%
2) shield time reduced
3) magica harness nerfed to ONLY magic damage
4) magica harness nerfed to only 3 times magic damage
5) CP that counters shields giving a massive damage boost vs shielded enemies
6) shield breaker for an extra glimpse of skyrim life
7) oblivion damage in glyphs/sets
How many more nerfs shields need to make special snowflakes satisfied?

That's actually a good summary of what happened due to constant QQing on the forums about shields.

Shields should be buffed instead, they are extremely weak in PvP already. Most of the above changes were not necessary, and the most recent idea to add a cast time is just ridiculous and simply fits into the general picture that there is apparently no clue about such a playstyle, using magicka resources with shields as main defense, in the first place.

All what is required is a better indication of the strength of the shield. If the HP of an opponent is full or low this is directly visible, but if you cast a shield, and you are not using any addons, it looks like all damage is mitigated somehow without compensation, leading to this endless QQ train of inexperienced players.

I totally agree!

generalmyrick

Not to be too critical...but the shield cast time coming out proves these feedback and class rep threads don't hold much water.

Cronopoly

ZOS_RobGarrett wrote: »

Hey all,

Just wanted to let you know we've been monitoring the feedback on this thread and elsewhere on the forums. Clearly there's a lot of concern around the impact of adding a cast time to Conjured Ward and Annulment.

First I'd like to talk about our motivation with the change. We believe choices between damage output and survivability make combat more interesting. There are a number of areas within our system that could better adhere to this philosophy, but these self-cast damage shield abilities stood out as being particularly out of line. It was too easy to throw a bunch of effective health on yourself while making a minimal sacrifice in terms of DPS itemization and rotation. This applied to both PvE and PvP scenarios.

The addition of a cast time makes that choice between damage output and survivability more deliberate and strategic. However, as many of you have pointed out, there are several potential issues with this solution. We identified many of these risks prior to PTS, and we're actively monitoring feedback from the community, Class Reps, and PTS testers.

If we decide to make significant changes to the abilities, those changes would not appear until at least PTS 3. However, we agree Conjured Ward and Annulment are too easy to interrupt in PvP, so we'll be making both spells immune to interrupts for PTS 2. We'll also be meeting with the Class Reps next week to discuss the changes.

In the meantime, we encourage you to continue experimenting, evaluating, and providing feedback.

So that said, the INTERRUPT change is not to go live for Conjured Ward (Sorc) and Anullment (Light Armor). Yet the Cast Time & Crit stays for now. What concern's me is that it was stated by ZoS that "After feedback etc we decided...blah blah.

I'm like if they played the damn game this should have been known that an Interuptable >1 sec cast shield was a huge problem for everyone that wears Light Armor. And No, Healing Ward's chance to not land on you at all was a problem as well if it was the only insta cast left to the populace...

NyxWrench

An idea that came to mind:

Regarding the conflict of pets and the action bar, as well as the removal of the third bar, and the consideration that some of the balance of sorcerer has to do with potential pet damage, I would suggest that a good means of handling that is adding a 'pet' slot to the action bar (somewhat like the 'ultimate' slot).

Basically, the pet slot would be a single slot that automatically counts as being on both bars (you can't put different pets on different bars). You can't put anything but one of the pets in that slot, either. It's only for one pet, though, so if you want a permanent second pet, you still have to double-bar that.

The pet slot would provide the expectation that the sorcerer is always going to have a pet available, and thus it's easier to consider that any class balance will always take that into account, instead of as now, where it may or may not be included in a player's build.

This would ease the pressure that needed to use the third bar to get enough skill slots to make a pet build fully workable, as you're effectively freeing up two action slots, and if you had two pets and a third bar, you were only adding 3 action slots anyway. (And possibly one of those slots would be a magicka boost skill common to all three bars, so you'd only be gaining 2 action slots.)

This also seems like it would help remove the gap between sorcerer and other DPS classes (if used in that manner) without needing to mess with the strengths of the various abilities. Or make a sorcerer healer more generally viable.

On the keyboard it's easy to implement; just make it key 6. I'm not sure how easy it would be to add it to a gamepad, though.

ck37090

Do you think there is any chance of getting an insta cast matriarch pet that does the burst heal on summons? Which would allow it to be used on one bar as just a burst heal... So good for healers... Wiyh shield changes it would give the class a viable heal ability without the need to keep a pet up... It would allow the ability to not keep the pet up as a pointer if trying to sneak in pvp... It would make it so much better to go through dungeons and certain fights so you can desummon the pet not to aggro... It would just overall make the pet ability much more viable for allot of reasons it isn't

Ranger209

Really, every sorc ability that needs to be double slotted should be reconsidered for single slot use in some way after losing the 3rd bar. The 3rd bar was the only thing that allowed all those double slotted abilities to make sense.

Perashim

1. Give us different daedra to summon: So far the only things we can summon are storm atronachs, scamps, scamp v2.0 (now complete with a bigger boom), clannfears, and Winged Twilights. What about Flame Atronachs, Air/Frost Atronachs, Daedroths, and the others?

2. More to offer as non DPS roles.

Cronopoly

I think the next 24 hours will tell the tale if Light Armor is to be Dead in PVP...

Swen_von_Walhallion

gpiolettipreeb18_ESO wrote: »

Hi all, it's long time i want to make this post.
I've been into this game since beta and StamSorc it's my main since 3 years, i agree with last changes and nerf to Dark Deal and Overload 3rd bar but after those changes a redesign of this class is mandatory because we are going to have even less buffs and chances to survive.

I'm writing all this text because i hope it will help to improve this game, i've appreciated many changes made by ZOS and i'm pretty sure you'll think also to sorc...if you finally nerfed shields after 4 years, we can always hope!
I'm sorry if i made some mistakes, please tell me.

I made 4 tables to compare all stamina classes:
Into those tables i've put all Stamina relevant passives, stamina morph of skills and some magicka skills which you don't need to spam and you can sustain on a stamina char, tha's why you'll se Crit Surge and not Streak or Toppling Charge.

I'll draw my own conclusion first so those who don't want to read the wall of text are free to stop here, at the end you'll find all the 4 tables with the name of the skills taken in account.
Table 1 – Buffs
Warden and Nightblade both shine here, they got 10 official buffs and keep being buffed every patch.
Dragonknight and Templars follow with half the buffes, luckly Templars got buffed this patch.
Sorcerer is the last one and, apart from generic buffs like Major Ward and Major Resolve, we only get Minor Expedition...nothing compared to classes who got Mending, Berserk or Protection.

Table 2 – Debuffs
Again Warden and Nightblade to the very top with all the best debuffs into the game.
Dragonknight and Templars follow with minor things.
Sorcerer got nothing.

Table 3 – Generic Boons
Here things changes a bit.
Templars and Dragonknight are the best with bonus to nearly everything.
Sorcerers are finally average with some regen and reduce costs, but again nothing important like buffs to defences or healing, and a buff to damage which is useless since we need to use only weapon skill on our main damage bar and can't slot more than one or two class skills.
Warden and Nightblade are at the end, but not that much.

Table 4 – Class Skills
This table is different because you can usually have only one buff, a second of the same will overwrite, while you can have multiple skills with the same effect.
Here Wardens are at the top of the food chain (and of course of the fun), they have everything: ultimate, spammable skills, CCs endless regen.
Dragonknight and Nightblade follow very close with full of utilities, even if Dks still lack of a true spammable attack but at least got many Dots, powerfull ulties and lot of regen and defences.
Templars are behind and i repeat luckly they got buffed last patch.
Last AND Least Sorcerers with just Hurricane and Implosion to shine, no defences, no healing or sustain apart Dark Deal which is cast time and interruptable nothing compared to Bully Netch or whatever.

So after this comparison don't be surprised when you see many stamblade and stamwarden around, to be honest i dont want to change.
I mean i have every stam class maxed and i could start playing stamden, but I LIKE my stamsorc, i dont want to cast flowers and trees, i like hurricanes and thunders!
What i dont like is to be pushed to play something i dislike only because it's 200% more powerfull, please i bought your game, Morrowind and Summerset aswell...i dont want nobody to be nerfed, only that you make justice of a huge difference that even a blind man would see.

Thank you.

Follow tables

Table 1 – Buffs
Warden
Buffs (10): Major Mending, Major Endurance, Minor Toughness, Major Ward, Major Resolve, Minor Evasion, Major Expedition, Major Heroism, Minor Berserk, Minor Protection
Skills: Falcon’s Swiftness (active), Green Lotus (active), Accelerated Growth (passive), Ice Fortress (active), Shimmering Shield (active), Maturation (passive).
Nightblade
Buffs (10): Major Brutality, Minor Endurance, Major Ward, Major Resolve, Major Evasion, Major Expedition, Major Berserk, Minor Berserk, Minor Savagery, Minor Protection
Skills: Reaper’s Mark (active), Relentless Focus (active), Power Extraction (active), Hemorrhage (passive), Shadow Barrier (passive), Dark Cloak (active), Double take (active).
Templar
Buffs (6): Minor Mending, Major Ward, Major Resolve, Major Savagery, Major Protection, Minor Protection
Skills: Biting Jabs (active), Sacred Ground (passive), Restoring Focus (active), Empowering Sweep (ultimate).
Dragonknight
Buffs (5): Major Brutality, Minor Brutality, Major Mending, Major Ward, Major Resolve
Skills: Hardened Armor (active), Igneous Weapons (active), Mountain’s Blessing (Passive), Fragmented Shield (active).
Sorcerer
Buffs (4): Major Brutality, Major Ward, Major Resolve, Minor Expetition
Skills: Critical Surge (active), Hurricane (active).


Table 2 – Debuffs
Nightblade
Debuffs (3): Major Fracture, Major Defile, Minor Maim.
Skills: Reaper’s Mark (active), Surprise attack (active), Mass Hysteria (active), Incapacitating Strike (ultimate).
Warden
Debuffs (2): Major Fracture, Minor Lifesteal.
Skills: Subterranean Assault (active), Leeching Vines (active).
Dragonknight
Debuffs (1): Major Fracture.
Skills: Noxious Breath (active).
Templar
Debuffs (1): Minor Fracture.
Skills: Power of the Light (active).
Sorcerer
Debuffs (0): .

Table 3 – Generic Boons
Templar
Bonus (11): Health regen, Stamina regen, Magika regen, Ulti. regen, Ulti. reduce cost, Stamina reduce cost, Magika reduce cost, Bonus to critical, Bonus to damage, Bonus to healing, Bonus to resistances.
Skills: Piercing Spear (Passive), Balanced Warrior (passive), Prism (Passive), Restoring Spirit (Passive), Mending (passive), Repentance (active).
Dragonknight
Bonus (8): Max Stats, Health regen, Stamina regen, Ulti. regen, Stamina reduce cost, Bonus to damage, Bonus to healing, Bonus to resistances.
Skills: Searing Heat (passive), World in Ruin (passive), Burning Hearth (passive), Scaled Armor (passive), Elder Dragon (passive), Elder Dragon (passive), Mountain’s Blessing (Passive).
Sorcerer
Bonus (8): Max Stats, Health regen, Stamina regen, Magika regen, Ulti. reduce cost, Stamina reduce cost, Magika reduce cost, Bonus to damage.
Skills: Daedric protection (passive), Bound armaments (active), Energized (passive), Expert Mage (passive) irrelevant since Stam.Sorc. needs to use weapon skill on his main dmg bar), Power Stone (passive), Unholy Knowledge (passive).
Warden
Bonus (6): Stamina regen, Magika regen, Ulti. regen, Bonus to damage, Bonus to healing, Bonus to resistances.
Skills: Savage Beast (Passive), Flourish (Passive), Advanced Species (Passive), Emerald Moss (passive), Frozen Armor (passive).
Nightblade
Bonus (5): Max Stats, Health regen, Stamina regen, Magika regen, Ulti. regen.
Skills: Master Assassin (passive), Pressure Point (passive), Hemorrhage (passive), Refreshing Shadows (passive), Transfer (passive).

Table 4 – Class Skills
Warden: 14
Nightblade: 12
Dragonknight: 11
Templar: 9
Sorcerer: 6

Main Spammable
Warden: Cutting Dive (active), Subterranean Assault (active).
Nightblade: Surprise attack (active).
Templar: Biting Jabs (active).
Sorcerer: No
Dragonknight: No

Gapcloser
Nightblade: Ambush (active).
Templar: No
Sorcerer: No
Dragonknight: No
Warden: No

Dot
Dragonknight: Venomous Claw (active), Noxious Breath (active).
Sorcerer: Hurricane (active).
Templar: Power of the Light (active).
Nightblade: No
Warden: No

Regen Skill
Dragonknight: Combustion (passive), Battle Roar (passive), Helping Hands (passive).
Nightblade: Executioner (passive), Leeching Strikes (active), Catalyst (passive).
Warden: Bull Netch (active), Nature’s Gift (passive).
Sorcerer: Dark Deal (active), Capacitor (passive).
Templar: Restoring Focus (active).

Snares and CCs
Dragonknight: Take Flight (ultimate), Warmth (passive).
Nightblade: Incapacitating Strike (ultimate), Mass Hysteria (active).
Templar: Binding Javelin (active), Sacred Ground (passive).
Warden: Permafrost (ultimate), Glacial Presence (passive).
Sorcerer: No

Defense and Heals
Warden: Shooting Spores (active), Leeching Vines (active), Shimmering Shield (active), Green Lotus (active), Icy Aura (passive).
Nightblade: Double take (active), Dark Cloak (active), Shadow Image (actrive)
Dragonknight: Iron Skin (passive), Fragmented Shield (active).
Templar: Extended Ritual (active), Repentance (active).
Sorcerer: Critical Surge (active), Dark Deal (active).

Ultimate
Warden: Wild Guardian, Permafrost, Healing Thicket.
Dragonknight: Take Flight, Corrosive Armor.
Nightblade: Incapacitating Strike
Templar: Empowering Sweep
Sorcerer: No

Execute
Sorcerer: Implosion (passive).
Nightblade: Killer’s Blade (active).
Templar: Burning Light (Passive).
Dragonknight: No
Warden: No

well let me little corect you, your tables are fine, but its little out of reality bc its only counting of skills and you dont think about how valuable are for stamina char in game. And for stamsorc, i dont find in your tabs Bound Armaments which is rly rly crazy good skill. Well i will be killing for this as stamina templar. And ou forgot compare real sustain of clases where sorc are on the top.

And you have lots of mistakes at temlars skills, PotL is not DoT its rly unique skill which 2 diferent dmg mechanics combined with debuf ( it do little dmg at cast, which is scaled from wpn dmg, and after itc cumulate dmg done and mob for 6s which is realesed at and and number of this max dmg is scaled only from max samina) its more direct dmg skill with delayed DMG. And biting jabs is dmg wise and for CP counted as DOT (btw templar spmable is chaneling skill which have is sometime rly problematic in fight)
Other thing Burnig Light pasive is not execute its normal dmg proc which can be initiated only by Aedric spera skills.
And for ultimates Templar Empowering Sweep is cap for DD, it have pitful dmg and rly low range, its uselful only if you play templar tank. then PvE wise are temlar and sorc at ultimates equal ( well strom atronach for PvE at stam sorc is much beter option then Empowering Sweep for templar) and PvP wise as sorc you have negate, which is proly best ulti ever for PvP.

And well caling repetence hel is liitle wierd bc its stil temlar only way how get some resorces, for heal as sttamina temlar and as all stamina DD (mebe except warden with tehir own stamina based heal) is here vigor. Repetence is rly bad skill bc when you neeed heal or some resources back its moslty in boss fight and most of time on bos figh here is nothing you can drain. And you cannot wait with drain it in best time bc the have rly fast despawn ( lots ofadds have only 1-2s window when you can drain them)

Illuvatarr

1) Ball Lightning should be increased to 3 seconds and should absorb all incoming projectiles. If someone comes near one of the balls or if it takes X damage, the ball explodes for Y damage in Z radius and roots those nearby. Leave the 50 percent magicka cost to avoid cheese.
2) Pets should take up only one slot each and while alive should either apply minor maim or give Sorc minor berserk.
3) Matriarch/tormentor attack should be a Magicka and or health drain which heals the Sorc and gives magicka/health to the Sorc.
4) Crystal Blast (not crystal shards) should be unreflectable.
5) Power Surge crits should heal for percentage of health.
6) Sorcs should have 10 percent more Crit across the board.
7) Expert Mage should provide additional spell penetration against targets in 5 pieces or more of heavy armor. Alternatively, or in addition, expert mage should allow the Sorc a percentage chance to hit dodging targets.
8) Tormentor/matriarch should have a percentage chance to “gate” in an additional tormentor for 30 seconds similar to demons in Dungeons and Dragons.
9) Daedric summoning passive should give 20 percent magicka regent in addition to health and stamina.

Nicko_Lps

Illuvatarr wrote: »

1) Ball Lightning should be increased to 3 seconds and should absorb all incoming projectiles. If someone comes near one of the balls or if it takes X damage, the ball explodes for Y damage in Z radius and roots those nearby. Leave the 50 percent magicka cost to avoid cheese.
2) Pets should take up only one slot each and while alive should either apply minor maim or give Sorc minor berserk.
3) Matriarch/tormentor attack should be a Magicka and or health drain which heals the Sorc and gives magicka/health to the Sorc.
4) Crystal Blast (not crystal shards) should be unreflectable.
5) Power Surge crits should heal for percentage of health.
6) Sorcs should have 10 percent more Crit across the board.
7) Expert Mage should provide additional spell penetration against targets in 5 pieces or more of heavy armor. Alternatively, or in addition, expert mage should allow the Sorc a percentage chance to hit dodging targets.
8) Tormentor/matriarch should have a percentage chance to “gate” in an additional tormentor for 30 seconds similar to demons in Dungeons and Dragons.
9) Daedric summoning passive should give 20 percent magicka regent in addition to health and stamina.

I agree, but they dont care

Dont waste your time, sorc is a targeted class by forum whiners. Next nerf inc is fury, it steals their kills in BG.


Dont waste your time with them

Vahrokh

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

Illuvatarr wrote: »

1) Ball Lightning should be increased to 3 seconds and should absorb all incoming projectiles. If someone comes near one of the balls or if it takes X damage, the ball explodes for Y damage in Z radius and roots those nearby. Leave the 50 percent magicka cost to avoid cheese.
2) Pets should take up only one slot each and while alive should either apply minor maim or give Sorc minor berserk.
3) Matriarch/tormentor attack should be a Magicka and or health drain which heals the Sorc and gives magicka/health to the Sorc.
4) Crystal Blast (not crystal shards) should be unreflectable.
5) Power Surge crits should heal for percentage of health.
6) Sorcs should have 10 percent more Crit across the board.
7) Expert Mage should provide additional spell penetration against targets in 5 pieces or more of heavy armor. Alternatively, or in addition, expert mage should allow the Sorc a percentage chance to hit dodging targets.
8) Tormentor/matriarch should have a percentage chance to “gate” in an additional tormentor for 30 seconds similar to demons in Dungeons and Dragons.
9) Daedric summoning passive should give 20 percent magicka regent in addition to health and stamina.

I agree, but they dont care

Dont waste your time, sorc is a targeted class by forum whiners. Next nerf inc is fury, it steals their kills in BG.


Dont waste your time with them

Sadly, he's right.

Of this whole thread, ZOS did not implement one, just one of the copious suggestions. Instead, they destroyed shields, destroyed Overload, nerfed other stuff...

Cronopoly

Vahrokh wrote: »

snip

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

snip

I agree, Sorc as we know it is a DEAD husk.

Left Axe Berserker - Nerfed into the ground. - DAoC
Creature Handler - Worst Nerf in MMO history...Class was deleted from the Star Wars Galaxies game by SOE with their NGE fiasco which killed the game...chasing WoW's character style.

Sorcerer - ZOS - Severely hampers Magicka Light Armor (other classes too) defensive/sustain play as "proposed"...We'll see where this one ranks on the list in history (PVP Centric) - So while not yet labelled an EPIC fail of SONY's NGE proportions, I'm not sure where this will Rank.

P.S. This Pet decision..."Screw it, we cannot find a common ground on Pets, Ha lets make em invulnerable in certain instances? Who asked for that..Trials ofc? Seems just a kneejerk reaction instead of making them hardier...sigh. Lost Taunt which was a pain point for Trials ofc. This is a blatant casualty of not having an evolved Pet Control system in late 2018 like every other MMO in the world

If there's some spoken direction that every class needs to do all roles effectively, that would be one thing if the Nerfs / Buffs supported it, but that's definitely not the case.

I'm one that looks at the long road across several Patches. I'm Sure ZOS does too occasionally in certain instances...others not so much.
- Summerset made it easy to get some of the niche skills only available to certain classes.
- Removal of the 3rd Skill bar
- Similar Debuffs / Buffs / Skills nerfed across the board to similar numerical Values.
- Homoginization...

Was Sorc TOO specialized is my Question? Hence the desire to homogenize it / dumb it down? If shield Stacking was a PROBLEM that could have been prevented at any moment by ZOS directly within the last 4 years to bring that playstyle in line...But instead, it's gutted, and Crit thrown on top as sprinkles. 1 GCD and ANY Light armor wearer will be driven to 100% defensive and or dead in PVP.

Any Truth is a Table with multiple supporting legs of facts. With the multiple Legged NERF across the board to Magsorcs, I consider the class/playstyle DEAD in PVP. Mine has been stripped of all gear soon to be forgotten. I might still play my Redguard Stam Sorc as that's mostly weapon line play anyways...

We enter the bar and sit down for drinks with Mag DK's with their ridiculous skill costs...

ManicDee

1. Give pet classes a selection of pets that can taunt, dps, heal
2. Allow pets to be selectable, so that familiar is not mutually exclusive with clannfear
3. Provide means to set pets to passive vs aggressive so eg: a group member walking too close to a trial boss won’t send the entire group’s flock of pets to start a fight
4. Allow combat pets to survive combat they shouldn’t evaporate just because an NPC sneezed
5. Ensure that combat pets which aren't taunting mobs attack from behind the mob

An example for pet sorcs, it might be worth shifting to a WoW style of pet where the sorc can capture daedra or totems(through quests, encounters, or paying gold to trainers?) so that they can customise their pets for specific purposes. So today I want to run overland content, I will activate a “daedric mark of clannfear ferocity” which turns my clan fear into a tank version: has a taunt, high resists & health, but low DPS. I switch my Matriarch to the version which provides a heal, and a magicka recovery aura but no attack, and switch my familiar to the volatile version for heaps of DPS but low survivability. Then tomorrow I am going to Veteran SO so I switch the clannfear to the leaping DPS version which has slightly lower survivability and no taunt, but CCs mobs with a leap stun (also handy for HRC top group).

It importantly, pets should not be paper thin, and I should be able to heal them.

Viimanir

Yup I'm gonna be another person complaining about the shields, because these concerns need to be heard.

I'm a magsorc as one can tell. Its been my main and favourite class since I started playing ESO 3-4 years ago, starting on Xbox and migrating to PC only this year. With the nerf to shields now live, there is a significant problem with protecting myself in all game modes. I have been setting up a build for some time now meant to be a sort of glass cannon for a reason: I'm DPS, not a Tank or Healer, so the more damage I deal the better my build is to run veteran dungeons and trials. If I can't stay alive without having a healer attached to my hip, then what worth do I have? Dealing a burst of damage before dying nearly instantly because my only defense, a magicka shield, can't cover my small bit of base health? That cuts out my role significantly, making me as a DPS absolutely useless compared to the other classes.

DPS gives up the health stat for whatever main resource they use. Stamsorcs give up health for stamina, and magsorcs give up health for magicka. If I could focus on health stats, then I really wouldn't need my shield as badly would I?

This nerf is going to kill magsorcs real fast, in both pvp and pve.

If this isn't going to be changed, I think people have the right in general to a free class change. I'd suggest adding this to daily rewards; if this is permanent, let people choose their path without having to either kill a character they worked on for days, maybe even months, or making them pay you.

Illuvatarr

Until they figure out a solution, pets should be immune to siege in pvp and should be much tougher than they are. They die too quickly.

Biro123

Illuvatarr wrote: »

Until they figure out a solution, pets should be immune to siege in pvp and should be much tougher than they are. They die too quickly.

Running impreg helps - but I agree.. and I think they need more health (+5k for battle-sprit?) I'm not sure but it seems like their max shield size is limited by their health too...
They also need to either use their own resists or yours whichever is higher, and should be affected by your resist buffs too.

Devs need to remember they're too stupid to dodge/block/break-free/not stand in the red.

TheValar85

Viimanir wrote: »

Yup I'm gonna be another person complaining about the shields, because these concerns need to be heard.

I'm a magsorc as one can tell. Its been my main and favourite class since I started playing ESO 3-4 years ago, starting on Xbox and migrating to PC only this year. With the nerf to shields now live, there is a significant problem with protecting myself in all game modes. I have been setting up a build for some time now meant to be a sort of glass cannon for a reason: I'm DPS, not a Tank or Healer, so the more damage I deal the better my build is to run veteran dungeons and trials. If I can't stay alive without having a healer attached to my hip, then what worth do I have? Dealing a burst of damage before dying nearly instantly because my only defense, a magicka shield, can't cover my small bit of base health? That cuts out my role significantly, making me as a DPS absolutely useless compared to the other classes.

DPS gives up the health stat for whatever main resource they use. Stamsorcs give up health for stamina, and magsorcs give up health for magicka. If I could focus on health stats, then I really wouldn't need my shield as badly would I?

This nerf is going to kill magsorcs real fast, in both pvp and pve.

If this isn't going to be changed, I think people have the right in general to a free class change. I'd suggest adding this to daily rewards; if this is permanent, let people choose their path without having to either kill a character they worked on for days, maybe even months, or making them pay you.

I am 100% agree. The shield changes needs to be reversed.

Biro123

I'm ok with the shield changes(pvp).. hopefully it will open some doors for other improvements down the road - especially for bar-space/sustain.

Loving the new overload, by the way.

Lord_Wrath

Im really confused on how im expected to balance my stats to make up for survival AND maintain DPS.

Icarus42

I just crafted an armor master set lost some spell damage and my sustain is terrible, but I thought that I wouldn't be melted as bad in pvp. Nope still get melted, I last maybe 5 seconds longer. I have impen on 4 pieces innate axiom for some stamina, 3 willpower 1 piece kena or any one piece monster for more magic since you lose a ton of magic due to have to run with witchmothers brew and atronach mundus stone 5 light 1h and 1m... Atronach mundus sucks because you have to run impen and not divines.

I will tell you this my second attempt to make something viable for pvp with my magic sorc, the thing that is the killer is having no viable heals. You can craft whatever you want, but I think it comes down to not being able to get your health pool back up in time, because in pvp right now my shields get melted as soon as I put them up! They are touching my health pool before I can even get an attack off. I can put ZERO pressure on my opponents! Next I guess I will try getting my heal regen up running regen or blessing of protection.....really ungood heals 3000 heal after battle spirit for blessing.

Blah blah, my point is basically that this sucks really bad to have to put this much time into something like this. Every patch I get my build all sussed out and ready to go...this patch is the worst turd ever is way too much time and effort on this. Time spent crafting gear farming gear accumulating enough gold to buy hard to find traits etc. etc. Now they want magic sorc to run a mitigation set?? This is bs...


Now that my rant is done I will continue to try and find a viable build for mag sorc because I am ocd like that... Maybe bright throat with orzogas red frothgar...Anyway if you guys have any good ideas on builds post them. I am sure I am not the only one doing this, thanks!!