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[Class Rep] Sorcerer Feedback Thread

  • rbfrgsp
    rbfrgsp
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    The game balancing team seems to be focused on removing crutch style elements of play from classes, so that new and old players will be encouraged to explore the full diversity of builds that are possible.

    With that in mind, I have a suggestion for sorcerer play style which comes out of the recent no-proc testing in cyrodiil:

    Change Streak so that it requires a target.

    Why? Because the skill has become a "panic button" ability without equal.


    In fact, the skill in its existing form is so front loaded, that there is literally not a single gameplay situation where you do not benefit by hitting Streak.

    Opening a gap? Streak.
    Closing a gap? Streak.
    On the back foot? Streak.
    On the offensive? Streak.
    Enemy in front of you? Streak.
    Behind you? Streak.
    To the left/right? Streak.

    The main problem is not actually the stun itself, but the radius for which the stun activates from. So, even if you are attacked from behind, and Streak away from your attacker, you still leave them stunned. This does not encourage skill attainment play or learning your class beyond the most shallow level.

    A change to this would have two benefits. First, a greater depth of choice between the two morphs, where one becomes explicitly a defensive gap opener, and the other an offensive stun CC and gap closer.

    Second, it would reward skill-based play. A good sorcerer player will be able to stand out further from the pack by making those tiny gameplay changes required of them with target-based streaking. Eg: you get attacked from behind. You pivot and turn around first, and then you hit Streak, zipping through your attacker and turning the tables. Perfect counterattack with the right amount of timing and reflexes demanded of you, rather than a default playstyle which is borne of: "I always have my finger hovering over button 1 because it is so damn useful" type play.

    This isn't a nerf post. The effects and costs of the skill should not change; only the context for its use requires better definition. Sorc is one class that looks and feels like it has a unique identity right now. This is a skill utility / anti-crutching suggestion.
    Edited by rbfrgsp on February 24, 2021 10:27AM
  • actosh
    actosh
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    @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_Gilliam

    Storm Atronarch Morphs should give the Major Berserk Buff to everybody around the Atronarch or after they activated the synergy. That it is just for 1 Single Person is kinda weird.

    Crystal Weapon should offer a more unique Bonus or should have it´s pen increased to at least 2.5k.

    The HP Bonus in the Deadric Skilline should be activated when a Skill from that line is on the Bar (QoL)

    Streak and BoL are sadly a bit overloaded. I love both of those morphs, but gotta be honest here.

    The Blink range is okay, ppl should slot a gapcloser to counter it.
    The 100% projetile absorb is a bit over the top (use that morph in pvp for obvious reasons).

    The Blink is so iconic and unique like nb´s tp shade or cloak, so pls dont butcher, but balance.

    Bound Aegis, is a nice Skill for a Tank if u go and Tank Hard hitting Bosses in Hardmodes (vKA Falgravn for example).
  • Minalan
    Minalan
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    Dear ZOS,

    People are only playing this class because you disabled proc sets.

    It will go back to “underutilized” at best as soon as your test is done, if you don’t make it permanent.
  • Doczy
    Doczy
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    Minalan wrote: »
    Dear ZOS,

    People are only playing this class because you disabled proc sets.

    It will go back to “underutilized” at best as soon as your test is done, if you don’t make it permanent.

    really? magsorc is strongest magicka class in pvp even with procs or no-procs. and its always at A tier at least


    try a magblade ;)
  • Chilly-McFreeze
    Chilly-McFreeze
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    actosh wrote: »
    The HP Bonus in the Deadric Skilline should be activated when a Skill from that line is on the Bar (QoL)

    Ew, please no. I don't have enough barspace on my stamsorc already, now I had to slot BA on front and back instead of firing up BA + a single LA and be done with it for 50sec?

    Admittedly I haven't played mS in a while but I remember I had curse & ward always on frontbar. So unless that changed or you run the atro on back you would gain nothing.

    rbfrgsp wrote: »

    This isn't a nerf post. The effects and costs of the skill should not change; only the context for its use requires better definition. Sorc is one class that looks and feels like it has a unique identity right now. This is a skill utility / anti-crutching suggestion.

    If you change up a skill for the worse and don't compensate for it in e.g. cost or damage then it is indeed a nerf. Sugarcoat it all you want but others have tried nerfing streak and all they've archieved is getting BoL buffed to become the superior option.
  • PhoenixGrey
    PhoenixGrey
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    Minalan wrote: »
    Dear ZOS,

    People are only playing this class because you disabled proc sets.

    It will go back to “underutilized” at best as soon as your test is done, if you don’t make it permanent.

    Nothing's really changed IMO.

    Before the test, mag sorc was the only class with < 25k hp and the easiest to kill

    During the test, there are many more mag sorcs with < 25k hp and still are the easiest to kill

    After the test, everyone will be a uber broken stamblade from CP buffs
    Edited by PhoenixGrey on February 24, 2021 7:39PM
  • Eweejy
    Eweejy
    In PvP Sorcs are easily my least favorite class to fight.

    1. Streak is OP - an evasion move that also can stun multiple players at once is probably the best PvP skill in the game hands down.

    2. Their double armor buffs are infuriating and can make them unbeatable.

    I personally know a Magsorc in PvP on another alliance (Used to despise them but now we're friends oddly) - I've witnessed, multiple times, this guy solo squat in our keep for 30 minutes+ while being constantly chased by 5-10 people at once. The mix of evasion + sustain + damage shields makes him basically impossible to kill - albeit during those 30 minutes he never killed anyone... Given when I've 1v1 him one my Stam Warden burst build (popping out 6.7k damage) I could only get him to 40% health once... Given I needed to change my CP points to buff damage against DmgShields, it was still incredible that I could hardly put a dent on his health)

    I've come to a conclusion that Magsorcs are OP unless you build specifically against them - ie CP allocation to dmgShields damage + 2h/bow build + DoT
  • Dixa
    Dixa
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    Right now - today, and as was from the beginning - the majority of the sorcerer base toolkit in their three lines is mostly ignored outright. It's really the only one of the classes like this.

    Until this is fixed and the other abilities find a common use, balancing this class is a pipe dream.
  • rbfrgsp
    rbfrgsp
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    rbfrgsp wrote: »

    This isn't a nerf post. The effects and costs of the skill should not change; only the context for its use requires better definition. Sorc is one class that looks and feels like it has a unique identity right now. This is a skill utility / anti-crutching suggestion.

    If you change up a skill for the worse and don't compensate for it in e.g. cost or damage then it is indeed a nerf. Sugarcoat it all you want but others have tried nerfing streak and all they've archieved is getting BoL buffed to become the superior option.

    It isn't a nerf because the skill itself - the effects, the cost - don't need changing. Only the context of where it should be active would change. Other similar gap closers with damage (ambush, stampede) require a target, so this would create parity.

    Also, requiring a target for one morph and not the other would make the distinction of one being the gap opener, and the other the gap closer. Plus, it would reward skilful play and players who were already good at using their sorcerer would feel little difference in what is demanded of them.

    Edited by rbfrgsp on February 24, 2021 8:41PM
  • Sahidom
    Sahidom
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    Remove the Crystal Frag cool down that prevents am immediate recast when recovering from a stun or break free action.
  • Chilly-McFreeze
    Chilly-McFreeze
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    rbfrgsp wrote: »
    rbfrgsp wrote: »

    This isn't a nerf post. The effects and costs of the skill should not change; only the context for its use requires better definition. Sorc is one class that looks and feels like it has a unique identity right now. This is a skill utility / anti-crutching suggestion.

    If you change up a skill for the worse and don't compensate for it in e.g. cost or damage then it is indeed a nerf. Sugarcoat it all you want but others have tried nerfing streak and all they've archieved is getting BoL buffed to become the superior option.

    It isn't a nerf because the skill itself - the effects, the cost - don't need changing. Only the context of where it should be active would change. Other similar gap closers with damage (ambush, stampede) require a target, so this would create parity.

    Also, requiring a target for one morph and not the other would make the distinction of one being the gap opener, and the other the gap closer. Plus, it would reward skilful play and players who were already good at using their sorcerer would feel little difference in what is demanded of them.

    Bolt Escape, in it's concept, is one of those multi purpose skills. You can see an issue in and by itself in that but it isn't the only skill of that kind in ESO. E.g. cloaks fits offensive and defensive purposes too.

    Bolt escape in it's core, as seen in the base skill, is a mobility tool. Nothing more, nothing less. On top of that we already get two very distinctive morphs of that mobility tool. One for greater utility (snare removal) & projectile defense in BoL, while streak fits a more aggressive tone with it's AoE dmg & stun.
    Both fit different playstyles. You could also argue that one is better to get away from ranged opponents while streak is better to create gap against melee opponents.

    Now to your suggestion:
    If the devs now somehow decide to remove large part of the mobility aspect, that is there since the start of the game and originates from the base skill, you'd alter the very essence of the skill. And by doing so you make it weaker compared to live. We call that a nerf.
    Due to the target requirement it would behave like an ordinary gap closer yet would still have the downsides of the original BE concept. You still overshoot and must run back to melee range, you still have to deal with escalating cost. Does this sound like parity to you?

    This also completely ignores how the rest of the class toolkit and it's different playstyles revolve around that unconditional movement tool. Not to start how a 3 week test with 90% of the item sets disabled currently distort the whole class balance picture.

    If, at all, you have to complain about one morph of Bolt Escape it should be Ball of Lightning. But I can understand that the cloak breaking ability of streak is a pain in the arse for any cloak relying build.
    Edited by Chilly-McFreeze on February 25, 2021 3:25PM
  • rbfrgsp
    rbfrgsp
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    As I say: not a nerf. If you prefer the mobility tool, you would choose the BoL morph. If you prefer the offensive CC gap closer, then you would continue using Streak. Naturally, an offensive tool ought to have a target, to keep it in line with the skill based playstyle of other classes.

    My comments come from two fundamental flaws of the current Streak:

    1) That its lack of target means that it is possible to launch a one-button counter attack to an enemy the is in any position relative to you, and you instantly stun them and open a gap to evade further attack. This is true regardless of whether you turn to face them before counter attacking, or just whack the button because you always whack the same button when anything unexpected happens.

    2) That it is always a beneficial skill to use in any context, which is the definition of a crutch in gaming, and does not encourage skillful play of sorcerers.
  • Minalan
    Minalan
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    I see the forums haven’t changed much. See how the nightblades tell us that we can keep the bolt escape morph that’s harmless to them. How generous!

    PS: Nerf Sorc! I can’t play without my proc sets!
    Edited by Minalan on February 27, 2021 11:06AM
  • Anyron
    Anyron
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    PVP

    Sorcerer is in good spot with resources and survivability (though ward could use spell damage scaling, not full but at least something)

    Whats bad there are ultimates.
    1) negate - outdated ultimate, almost pointless to use because of hot stacking and widely common stamina users

    2) atronach - this high cost ultimate is pale in comparison with other damage ultimates. Its not even close to 100 ultimate cost dawnbreaker

    3) overload is also outdated, it offers almost nothing. Low damage increase on light attacks, crappy heavy version and high cost for what it does.

    4) Meteor - high cost, with decent damage but it takes ages to land and it tells you clearly when to block


    Seriously, if you compare all these ultimates to dawnbreaker, you can't seriously think they are ballanced. I am using physical damage ultimate over my class ultimates and that is bad on magsorc
  • rbfrgsp
    rbfrgsp
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    Anyron wrote: »
    PVP
    2) atronach - this high cost ultimate is pale in comparison with other damage ultimates. Its not even close to 100 ultimate cost dawnbreaker
    This is interesting because I have never once seen the atro ulti as a damage skill. I always considered its utility as a sort of portable tank / meat shield that you drop and then LoS behind. That certainly seems to be the way that most sorcerers who use it try to find utility from it.
  • Anyron
    Anyron
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    rbfrgsp wrote: »
    Anyron wrote: »
    PVP
    2) atronach - this high cost ultimate is pale in comparison with other damage ultimates. Its not even close to 100 ultimate cost dawnbreaker
    This is interesting because I have never once seen the atro ulti as a damage skill. I always considered its utility as a sort of portable tank / meat shield that you drop and then LoS behind. That certainly seems to be the way that most sorcerers who use it try to find utility from it.

    Its only sorcerer ultimate worth slotting for damage but as i said its still weak, compared to dawnbreaker. About los, i am not hiding behind pet zoo.
  • YandereGirlfriend
    YandereGirlfriend
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    RE: Sorcerer Ultimates

    Atronach currently has one functionally dead morph that, as every stamSorc knows, could be easily transmuted into an Air Atronach (yes, I know that Aegiscaller exists, you can still do it). Make it deal Physical Damage and provide the same synergy as the Storm Atronach (or, even better, come up with a new group buff to attach).

    After that, allowing all group members to synergize the Major Berserk from the two Atronachs would be an immense group-utility improvement and would make Sorcerers more worthy of inclusion in raids.

    Overload is an interesting idea but it also has one functionally dead morph that could be re-purposed to something more interesting. A quality-of-life change for the skill would be to enable ult-gen while the mode is toggled - if damage must come down slightly in order to accomplish that, then so be it.

    What to do with the other morph though? IMO, it should be something having to do with wind and do Physical Damage. Perhaps call down a funnel tube (a la a Tornado) and have it pull enemies in the radius toward the center while doing damage over time. Such a morph would obviously be more PvP-oriented but it would be quite thematic for use by more casual players in Overland questing as well.

    Suppression Field is an amazing skill that ought not to be touched. However, nobody uses Absorption Field, and, like the other half of Sorcerer ultimates, it is essentially a dead morph. One possible solution would be to convert it into a version of Negate that works against Stamina rather than Magicka.
  • Jayserix
    Jayserix
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    Eweejy wrote: »
    [...]
    I've come to a conclusion that Magsorcs are OP unless you build specifically against them - ie CP allocation to dmgShields damage + 2h/bow build + DoT

    And this is the reason why players can't be trusted to give insightful inputs.

    What this person isn't saying is that any class with mobility and geared towards recovery + tanking can do that, on the other hand they won't be able to deal meaningful damage. So the "OP" element here is clearly absurd.

  • Luckylancer
    Luckylancer
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    Class is decent right now. For more improvement, dead morps can be explored. Morps in use should not be touched other than minor triming. Dont fix what is broken. @YandereGirlfriend have some good idead.
  • universal_wrath
    universal_wrath
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    rbfrgsp wrote: »
    Anyron wrote: »
    PVP
    2) atronach - this high cost ultimate is pale in comparison with other damage ultimates. Its not even close to 100 ultimate cost dawnbreaker
    This is interesting because I have never once seen the atro ulti as a damage skill. I always considered its utility as a sort of portable tank / meat shield that you drop and then LoS behind. That certainly seems to be the way that most sorcerers who use it try to find utility from it.

    I think there is something wrong if you use an offensive skill/ultimate as a utility. This just shows you how weak it is in comparison to other ultimates. Overlaod even worse, if you exclude PvP.



  • Merllow
    Merllow
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    I am a PVP player and the Sorc has problems
    1. Each blow of Sorc literally can be slowly avoided by rolling, the spels fly too long.
    2. Streak can only be useful if the opponent is a beginner. Seasoned players catch up with you by sprint or use getclouser. Streak 15 meters, getclouser 22 meters people ride on your back for a very cheap skill, and you spend 4 times in a row 20k magic, while stamina with getclouser spends 12k stamina.
    3. The Sorc lacks good useful skills that reset negative effects, ideally, this function is to perform a streak (for example, one effect per streak)
    4. The rotation is very complicated, you need to do a strong combo, which works if the person does not know what a break free and a roll are. In stamina, people throw debuffs and spam dizzy+execut
  • actosh
    actosh
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    Merllow wrote: »
    I am a PVP player and the Sorc has problems
    4. The rotation is very complicated, you need to do a strong combo, which works if the person does not know what a break free and a roll are. In stamina, people throw debuffs and spam dizzy+execut

    Crystal into dizzy into medium weave with Dawnbringer. Execute. Works best with vateshran 2handed.
  • Hescrow
    Hescrow
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    1- Crystal weapon animation is really too slow although it is marked as instant skill
    2- Range of Streak is too short
  • francesinhalover
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    Give stam sorcerer a spammable like surprise atrack.
    It cam be a purple conjured sword
    And remove crystal weapon from the game.

    Remove winged twilight from the game or give it a non flying morph.
    Edited by francesinhalover on April 6, 2022 3:09AM
    I am @fluffypallascat pc eu if someone wants to play together
    Shadow strike is the best cp passive ever!
  • Hescrow
    Hescrow
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    Give stam sorcerer a spammable like surprise atrack.
    It cam be a purple conjured sword
    And remove crystal weapon from the game.

    Remove winged twilight from the game or give it a non flying morph.

    I agree for crystal weapon but for what is main problem if you Can describe.

    Same for winged Can you describe why flying daedra is a PB? Here I disagree BTW lol
  • julez92
    julez92
    Soul Shriven
    TrapLord wrote: »
    Mag Sorcs main problem is that there is no way to remove a snare. And almost every class and build has a way to mitigate, and or remove snares applied.

    My personal opinion is that a class ability, such as boundless storm, or streak, and it morphs should implement snare mitigation/ removal of some kind.

    The DK class just got snare removal added to the effects of “Wings”, I personally feel that the sorcerer class should also be given snare removal.



    - Ball of Lightning removes snares and immobilizations and makes you immune to snares and immobilizations for "2 Seconds"
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    Doczy wrote: »
    Minalan wrote: »
    Dear ZOS,

    People are only playing this class because you disabled proc sets.

    It will go back to “underutilized” at best as soon as your test is done, if you don’t make it permanent.

    really? magsorc is strongest magicka class in pvp even with procs or no-procs. and its always at A tier at least


    try a magblade ;)

    The only placeI find that Magsorc somewhat shines is in BG's. Have you played MagDk or MagPlar? They seem to be a cut above the rest in terms of class balance for PvP.
  • the1andonlyskwex
    the1andonlyskwex
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    julez92 wrote: »
    TrapLord wrote: »
    Mag Sorcs main problem is that there is no way to remove a snare. And almost every class and build has a way to mitigate, and or remove snares applied.

    My personal opinion is that a class ability, such as boundless storm, or streak, and it morphs should implement snare mitigation/ removal of some kind.

    The DK class just got snare removal added to the effects of “Wings”, I personally feel that the sorcerer class should also be given snare removal.



    - Ball of Lightning removes snares and immobilizations and makes you immune to snares and immobilizations for "2 Seconds"
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    Doczy wrote: »
    Minalan wrote: »
    Dear ZOS,

    People are only playing this class because you disabled proc sets.

    It will go back to “underutilized” at best as soon as your test is done, if you don’t make it permanent.

    really? magsorc is strongest magicka class in pvp even with procs or no-procs. and its always at A tier at least


    try a magblade ;)

    The only placeI find that Magsorc somewhat shines is in BG's. Have you played MagDk or MagPlar? They seem to be a cut above the rest in terms of class balance for PvP.

    This thread is 47 pages long and has been around since 2018. I don't think using current information to refute old posts is very productive.
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