[Class Rep] Sorcerer Feedback Thread

cpuScientist

Pets are here to stay and are being made more and more useful especially with the newest change allowing them to function in dungeons and trials. They do however, leave alot to be desired. And could use some buffs for both PvE and PvP, as the interaction between the sorcerer skills and the pets are nearly non existent.

Pets should be buffable by sorcerer skills, such as boundless storm/hurricane. The pets should also get these effects or something pet-specific when that skill is used. Dark deal should heal both you and the pet. Anything else. Usually summoners buff pets and while sorcerer does have the most interaction with the pets such as shield and curse. More interaction would be great.

And finally a graphical update for the pets would be great after all this time. They look very outdated.

Oh also change twilight tormentor into something better for DPS it is never used and really just very bad skill. Not useful in PvP whatsoever. And hardly worthwhile and clunky to use in PvE.

cpuScientist

So yeah pet should get functionality from sorcerer skills.

1. Boundless storm/hurricane should give them armor buff as well. Maybe some minor damage effect but atleast the armor.
2. CritSurge should heal the pets as well. And perhaps give them a small damage boost.
3. Dark deal could heal the pets as well.
4. Bound armor could grant them minor protection.

Our class skillls could have more interaction with pets. If sorcerer is summoner then we should have many ways of buffing our pets.

Further for their viability in PvP they need some form of hot not just the burst heal and critSurge applying to them would help in that.

Locriana

Recent patch has UTTERLY DESTROYED MY PETSORC FOR MAELSTROM. First of all the ‘pets do not die’ thing doesn’t apply in Maelstrom. The pathetic shields we now get WHICH ARE NOW 1/3 OF WHAT THEY WERE IN MY BUILD cannot keep the pets alive. So the pets die, and so do I during the channeling time of recasting the pets.

Now, I really, really wish I’d managed to get my Maelstrom fire staff in any of my 20+ runs of Maelstrom before you destroyed sorc’s ability to stay alive in solo content, but your rng doesn’t favor me, ever.

I have worked and worked on this build and after many, many failures, much learning and effort over the years, finally learned to beat Maelstrom. It was not easy for me. I even managed it on my Magblade, but now I’m sure that one is toast as well because harness magicka is dead too.

But pet builds for Maelstrom should not be utterly killed by one patch update. I thought you guys were into subtle changes that would not destroy the game for any one class. I understand pvp people have a complaint about sorcs, but I don’t play my sorc in pvp. In trials this may be okay, with healers, but Maelstrom, no, just no..

This is completely unfair to sorcs in Maelstrom.

Please, pvp players, do not harass me here. This is a very extreme change and apparently there is no way to compensate. I took all my points out of bastion, as that CP is now worthless, and put it into spell resistance. Still the same issues. As if I had changed nothing. THIS IS BROKEN, and I am utterly disheartened by this game, and the choices made by zos.

Most of us are not in the .1% of players, and struggle in a place like Maelstrom, and apparently NO ONE GAVE A SINGLE THOUGHT TO HOW THIS UNPRECEDENTED NERF WOULD AFFECT MAELSTROM PLAYERS.

PLEASE RETHINK WHAT YOU DID HERE AND FIX WHAT YOU DID TO US IN MAELSTOM.

Locriana

I have been told by there was a bug introduced on PC with the base Murkmire patch that affected how pets take damage.

To quote @Feric51 “ I'm not talking about their supposed 100 resistance to damage in group content (which may, or may not, actually be true).

Instead: pre-Murkmire pets had an 85% reduction to AoE and DoT damage in all non-group content, this was removed by a bug and pets started taking unreduced damage from all sources. They fixed this on PC with incremental patch 4.2.6, but it appears the fix did not make it into the console release of Murkmire.

This may be the real reason your pets seem to be dying more often than before. Yes, shield size does play a role, but it might be exacerbated by the lack of damage reduction pets should be getting.”

THIS is a HUGE PROBLEM in VMA ON CONSOLE that suddenly I am experiencing in vMA. My pets rarely died before MurkMire. Now it’s ridiculous in there.
PLEASE FIX THIS !!!

I have even tried a high health build to increase shields (due to the unprecedented extreme nerf to shields (supposedly to help TANKS — WTF??!), and EVEN WITH LARGER SHIELDS, NOTHING PROTECTS THE PETS, THEY ARE DYING CONSTANTLY.

I used to enjoy running vMA - it was challenging but doable. I spent a long time learning mechanics and how to respond to them. I have been able to run my pet sorc build through ~20 times. I know when I am making a mistake, and that is usually the reason for dying in there. And I learn from it, correct the mistake, and succeed. That’s an enjoyable process.
BUT
Pets dying constantly and me struggling to recast them and in doing so am unable to do what I need to be doing, use up magicka trying to keep them alive fruitlessly, and lose dps by doing so, is not an interesting or enjoyable play style.

Please don’t destroy this game and the years invested in it by a lot of people.

I have no interest in your new DLC due to what it has done to petsorcs, the class I have spent years learning and investing in.

Chilly-McFreeze

Locriana wrote: »

They fixed this on PC with incremental patch 4.2.6, but it appears the fix did not make it into the console release of Murkmire.

Pretty much this. I don't exactly know why they don't mash up all the hot fixes from the PC version with the console launch but I guess it has something to do with the verification that is needed (and that causes the delay for consoles in the first place).

cpuScientist

Dunno if this is still being monitored. But pain points.

1. Still lack of sustain.
2. Lack of reliable heals outside of pets.
3. New pain, lack of barspace.
4. Lack of competitive DPS.
5. Lack of dot pressure.

cpuScientist

Shoot might as well keep going.

6. Lack of debuffs
7. Frag speed Nerf feels extremely clunky, melee should have some dangers when closing the gap.
8. Aegis there just for passives that other classes get from passives. Dead skills eating slots.
9. Many dead and useless passives.
10. No direction for the class, is it a ranged nuker or a zookeeper?

Plazadearmas

I read that resistance counts towards shields. Is that true? I feel it does not because I cant survive in vMA nearly as well as I used to.

Seems to me ESO has the same issue where you try to balance PVP and PVE and can't, those are two different games. I have been playing the game since it came out on console several years ago. Honestly about to quit with the constant "balance" changes.

You need to create skills that are unique to PVE and PVP areas.

Bergzorn

Ward size in PvE decreased dramatically for many builds due to the max ward limit of 40% - 50% of max health.

Assuming your ward size got cut in half by this change, you need 33k physical and spell resistance to make up for the lost ward size, this would bring you to the armor mitigation cap of 50%. This is without considering any other mitigation like Minor / Major Protection, Undead passive, and CP. Since they are all multiplicative with armor resistances, they will give you less 'bang for your buck' when running high armor resistances.

If you don't build for resistances, your ward is very likely much weaker than before. If you do, you are making serius sacrifices as compared to pre-Murkmire. It's an extreme change in PvE for most magica builds.

cpuScientist

Ok I have extensively tested pets in MurkMire. Obviously they are fantastic in duels. They are ok in BG if you are in a tightish group. Same with IC. Not good mind you just ok. But in open world they are just not gonna work not now not ever. Unless cyro for you is fighting a bunch of 1v1 or even 1v2 where no one LOS's.

Pets are definitely good now for pve alswell. They can perform really well and bring good AOE dps to the group. However in end game it is about that single target DPS, but maybe the one obligatory sorc can be a pet sorc.

Overload it is not worth it. It is a stronger light attack but in pve it is really bad because it does not compare damage wise to atro or destro ulti. This being because it REPLACES your normal light attack, if it BUFFED your normal light attack then we would be GOING somewhere. We would have a really GOOD ulti on our hands. But instead we have a MEDIOCRE ulti that just serves to take away our THIRD bar. Also it just gets reflected back non stop only ultimate I think that can be reflected... I mean on top of how slow it is, it can also be reflected geeeze. And then locking out ulti gen when it is active, makes it WAY more expensive than it seems to be.

In the end, pets are neat and those who love them will always LOVE them. Those who hate them will always HATE them. And it must be hard trying to balance the two, becuase if either gets behind the other in dps it is bad, if pets are meant to be the sorcs healing grace in PvP it is really bad as it is simply is not reliable in a pinch and takes up valuable slots.

The slow frag and bow proc, are also really uncalled for, it makes the skill feel sooooooooo much less satisfying, it already lost the knockdown now this, if someone gets in close to a sorc which is always, the only real penalty for that was frag would be hard to dodge.

Sorc resource sustain is also just bad, completely stopping combat for 1.3 seconds is really terrible. Overload would be the answer to fixing this, with energy overload. It would really be fantastic, but only if some of the problems with the ulti are looked at. IMO OL should be the best single target dps ulti in the game. OR atleast in the sorcs repertoire. If not some sort of mag back on concussion, and make sorcs more able to hand out concussion.


Stamina Sorc now. It is doing more or less ok, really feeling the loss of the third bar. As that really was all that set it apart. Now it is just even more of a non class. Melee proc frag is the answer ZOS. That and the making of the Wrecking Blow morph instant cast.

daveywavey

Zachary_Shadow wrote: »

StamSorc get's the fall. There's maybe 4, 5 useful active abilities inside of the sorcerer tree for stamina users. Plus, like someone said above, there's a lack of useful passives for stamina users. Magsorc, on the other hand, can use all of the passives, they can use a majority of the abilities, etc. There's becoming less and less of a reason to play stamsorc compared to magsorc, just based on how powerful and versatile they can become. The game claims that you can play however you want, but that changes very quickly with how the abilities are set up.

Possibly change some of the morphs of 1-2 abilities to where they can be useful to stam users? For passives, maybe make it where depending on what your characters' highest values are (stamina, magicka, health), the passives change to where they could be useful to your character.

I've never liked the idea of a Stamina Sorcerer. It's a Sorcerer. They use Sorcery. Sorcery is Magic. The 'Sorcerer' Class by definition should be better for Magicka users.

So:
1) Remove all Stamina morphs or add more Magicka morphs. Give us a way to choose our build, not just "Oh, I'm Magicka so I only have one morph to choose from". Like we used to before trolls decided that Sorcery-using Characters should use Stamina. Nobody complains that Orcs don't get Magicka Passives, cos it's expected that Orcs are Stamina-based. Sorcerers use Sorcery, and so it's expected that Sorcerers will be Magicka-based.
2) Bar Swap doesn't always work very well when using Dark Conversion.

cpuScientist

Fantastic world bending idea! Make overload not a toggle anymore. But a low cost ultimate that just buffs your light and heavy attacks with shock! Just make whatever weapon you have get a huge shock overlay. And then the light attacks deal X damage extra and the heavies upon completion of a full heavy attack send out a shockwave so it retains it's AOE aspect. Allowing this to be used with Architect. Allowing this to have a lot more use in PvP. A strong burst moment.

GREAT SCOTT I'VE DONE IT!

BaylorCorvette

daveywavey wrote: »

So:
1) Remove all Stamina morphs or add more Magicka morphs. Give us a way to choose our build, not just "Oh, I'm Magicka so I only have one morph to choose from". Like we used to before trolls decided that Sorcery-using Characters should use Stamina. Nobody complains that Orcs don't get Magicka Passives, cos it's expected that Orcs are Stamina-based. Sorcerers use Sorcery, and so it's expected that Sorcerers will be Magicka-based.
2) Bar Swap doesn't always work very well when using Dark Conversion.

Wow, just wow. First of all, you can play any class as any race (assuming you have that unlocked from the any race any faction), so to compare Orc racial passives with one of five classes is silly.

Furthermore Sorc has so few Stamina morphs already, and honestly they need more. You're saying they shouldn't have stamina morphs or should have more magicka morphs? Out of 36 possible skill and ulti morphs, FOUR are tailored for Stam Sorc, that's 11% of morphs: Dark Deal, Bound Armaments, Hurricane and Crit Surge and of these four skills two of them cost Magicka to use.

What would you gain by changing those morphs to benefit Magicka Socrs? Dark Deal is just the mirror image of Dark Conversion. If you're using spell power pots you can use Crit Surge for better heals. Hurricane and Boundless are very similar and as far as I'm concerned you can have Bound Armaments.

Chilly-McFreeze

BaylorCorvette wrote: »

daveywavey wrote: »

So:
1) Remove all Stamina morphs or add more Magicka morphs. Give us a way to choose our build, not just "Oh, I'm Magicka so I only have one morph to choose from". Like we used to before trolls decided that Sorcery-using Characters should use Stamina. Nobody complains that Orcs don't get Magicka Passives, cos it's expected that Orcs are Stamina-based. Sorcerers use Sorcery, and so it's expected that Sorcerers will be Magicka-based.
2) Bar Swap doesn't always work very well when using Dark Conversion.

Wow, just wow. First of all, you can play any class as any race (assuming you have that unlocked from the any race any faction), so to compare Orc racial passives with one of five classes is silly.

Furthermore Sorc has so few Stamina morphs already, and honestly they need more. You're saying they shouldn't have stamina morphs or should have more magicka morphs? Out of 36 possible skill and ulti morphs, FOUR are tailored for Stam Sorc, that's 11% of morphs: Dark Deal, Bound Armaments, Hurricane and Crit Surge and of these four skills two of them cost Magicka to use.

What would you gain by changing those morphs to benefit Magicka Socrs? Dark Deal is just the mirror image of Dark Conversion. If you're using spell power pots you can use Crit Surge for better heals. Hurricane and Boundless are very similar and as far as I'm concerned you can have Bound Armaments.

As if those guys would really care about arguments. Better to not feed the troll. Obviously he's one so I'm surprised someone actually agrees with his suggestions.

Anyway, I've read the devs thread about their new approach with smaller changes. What I got out of it is that I can bury my hopes and dreams of a sorcerer (mag and especially stam) overhaul.

Bobby_V_Rockit

daveywavey wrote: »

Zachary_Shadow wrote: »

StamSorc get's the fall. There's maybe 4, 5 useful active abilities inside of the sorcerer tree for stamina users. Plus, like someone said above, there's a lack of useful passives for stamina users. Magsorc, on the other hand, can use all of the passives, they can use a majority of the abilities, etc. There's becoming less and less of a reason to play stamsorc compared to magsorc, just based on how powerful and versatile they can become. The game claims that you can play however you want, but that changes very quickly with how the abilities are set up.

Possibly change some of the morphs of 1-2 abilities to where they can be useful to stam users? For passives, maybe make it where depending on what your characters' highest values are (stamina, magicka, health), the passives change to where they could be useful to your character.

I've never liked the idea of a Stamina Sorcerer. It's a Sorcerer. They use Sorcery. Sorcery is Magic. The 'Sorcerer' Class by definition should be better for Magicka users.

So:
1) Remove all Stamina morphs or add more Magicka morphs. Give us a way to choose our build, not just "Oh, I'm Magicka so I only have one morph to choose from". Like we used to before trolls decided that Sorcery-using Characters should use Stamina. Nobody complains that Orcs don't get Magicka Passives, cos it's expected that Orcs are Stamina-based. Sorcerers use Sorcery, and so it's expected that Sorcerers will be Magicka-based.
2) Bar Swap doesn't always work very well when using Dark Conversion.

Damn Thalmor purists...

Vahrokh

I am fairly sure neither ZOS nor the class representative are reading this thread anymore, but I still want to provide feedback.

Now that magsorcs have lost their last class signature skills (overload and strong shields), they have effectively become "wannabe glass cannons".

I write wannabe, because they are now glass, but the "cannon" has been left out, completely.

Today I felt it completely unfair to have to struggle so much just to be allowed into a hm vMOL trial group.

With a stamina character I could reach the DPS requirements (checked before officers) even in solo and without any external buff or help at all.

As a pet magsorc, OF COURSE I have immediately made them worried because of how pets screw up fight mechanics. So, the starting impression is bad already.

Then with them providing trial buffs I barely scratched the hm vMOL requirements, I had to work 10 times harder with a damn "easy mode" magsorc than an "evolved" stam character!!

It's is simply U N F A I R.

Yes, there are 2 (two) instances in the whole game where magicka characters are preferred. Magicka NIGHTBLADES, of course, not magicka sorcs. The remaining 99.9% of the content is under strong stamina domination.

And the worst part is not this. The worst part is that you SHALL COMPLETELY IGNORE what I, or other dozen mag sorc (ex) trial players have written.

daveywavey

BaylorCorvette wrote: »

daveywavey wrote: »

So:
1) Remove all Stamina morphs or add more Magicka morphs. Give us a way to choose our build, not just "Oh, I'm Magicka so I only have one morph to choose from". Like we used to before trolls decided that Sorcery-using Characters should use Stamina. Nobody complains that Orcs don't get Magicka Passives, cos it's expected that Orcs are Stamina-based. Sorcerers use Sorcery, and so it's expected that Sorcerers will be Magicka-based.
2) Bar Swap doesn't always work very well when using Dark Conversion.

Wow, just wow. First of all, you can play any class as any race (assuming you have that unlocked from the any race any faction), so to compare Orc racial passives with one of five classes is silly.

Furthermore Sorc has so few Stamina morphs already, and honestly they need more. You're saying they shouldn't have stamina morphs or should have more magicka morphs? Out of 36 possible skill and ulti morphs, FOUR are tailored for Stam Sorc, that's 11% of morphs: Dark Deal, Bound Armaments, Hurricane and Crit Surge and of these four skills two of them cost Magicka to use.

What would you gain by changing those morphs to benefit Magicka Socrs? Dark Deal is just the mirror image of Dark Conversion. If you're using spell power pots you can use Crit Surge for better heals. Hurricane and Boundless are very similar and as far as I'm concerned you can have Bound Armaments.

Yes, absolutely. Anyone can play their classes on whatever race they choose. Just like they can play Magicka or Stamina on any class they choose. But just like you wouldn't choose Redguard for a magicka user or Altmer for a stamina user because you'd end up gimping yourself compared to other players, the same applies to the 'Sorcerer' who, as the name implies, should be 'Sorcery'-based.
Regarding the skills, I'd love to see more skills of both varieties, but I honestly don't think we're going to get more Class skills. So, that leaves the existing ones. In order to get some choice in what features and abilities my skills use, I need more than a "Magicka or Stamina" choice, given that one will be powerful and the other ridiculously weak depending on whether or not I'm specced for Magicka or Stamina.

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

As if those guys would really care about arguments. Better to not feed the troll. Obviously he's one so I'm surprised someone actually agrees with his suggestions.

And there's the "anyone who disagrees with me is a troll" post. Shame on you.

dpencil1

cpuScientist wrote: »

Fantastic world bending idea! Make overload not a toggle anymore. But a low cost ultimate that just buffs your light and heavy attacks with shock! Just make whatever weapon you have get a huge shock overlay. And then the light attacks deal X damage extra and the heavies upon completion of a full heavy attack send out a shockwave so it retains it's AOE aspect. Allowing this to be used with Architect. Allowing this to have a lot more use in PvP. A strong burst moment.

GREAT SCOTT I'VE DONE IT!

Nice! I'd get behind this.

BaylorCorvette

daveywavey wrote: »

Yes, absolutely. Anyone can play their classes on whatever race they choose. Just like they can play Magicka or Stamina on any class they choose. But just like you wouldn't choose Redguard for a magicka user or Altmer for a stamina user because you'd end up gimping yourself compared to other players, the same applies to the 'Sorcerer' who, as the name implies, should be 'Sorcery'-based.
Regarding the skills, I'd love to see more skills of both varieties, but I honestly don't think we're going to get more Class skills. So, that leaves the existing ones. In order to get some choice in what features and abilities my skills use, I need more than a "Magicka or Stamina" choice, given that one will be powerful and the other ridiculously weak depending on whether or not I'm specced for Magicka or Stamina.

But in Elder Scrolls lore there is a thing called a Battlemage: http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Battlemage

barshemm

Sorcs should all be Orcs. Orc Sorcs user Sorcery to enhance their physical capabilities to smash stinky elves.

Biro123

barshemm wrote: »

Sorcs should all be Orcs. Orc Sorcs user Sorcery to enhance their physical capabilities to smash stinky elves.

is that 'sorcery' pronounced s'orkery?

pieratsos

Cant we just rework pets and make them something like shadow image and netch with actual synergy with the class, doesnt require to be double barred and they are not either obnoxious or useless?

Chilly-McFreeze

daveywavey wrote: »

BaylorCorvette wrote: »

daveywavey wrote: »

So:
1) Remove all Stamina morphs or add more Magicka morphs. Give us a way to choose our build, not just "Oh, I'm Magicka so I only have one morph to choose from". Like we used to before trolls decided that Sorcery-using Characters should use Stamina. Nobody complains that Orcs don't get Magicka Passives, cos it's expected that Orcs are Stamina-based. Sorcerers use Sorcery, and so it's expected that Sorcerers will be Magicka-based.
2) Bar Swap doesn't always work very well when using Dark Conversion.

Wow, just wow. First of all, you can play any class as any race (assuming you have that unlocked from the any race any faction), so to compare Orc racial passives with one of five classes is silly.

Furthermore Sorc has so few Stamina morphs already, and honestly they need more. You're saying they shouldn't have stamina morphs or should have more magicka morphs? Out of 36 possible skill and ulti morphs, FOUR are tailored for Stam Sorc, that's 11% of morphs: Dark Deal, Bound Armaments, Hurricane and Crit Surge and of these four skills two of them cost Magicka to use.

What would you gain by changing those morphs to benefit Magicka Socrs? Dark Deal is just the mirror image of Dark Conversion. If you're using spell power pots you can use Crit Surge for better heals. Hurricane and Boundless are very similar and as far as I'm concerned you can have Bound Armaments.

Yes, absolutely. Anyone can play their classes on whatever race they choose. Just like they can play Magicka or Stamina on any class they choose. But just like you wouldn't choose Redguard for a magicka user or Altmer for a stamina user because you'd end up gimping yourself compared to other players, the same applies to the 'Sorcerer' who, as the name implies, should be 'Sorcery'-based.
Regarding the skills, I'd love to see more skills of both varieties, but I honestly don't think we're going to get more Class skills. So, that leaves the existing ones. In order to get some choice in what features and abilities my skills use, I need more than a "Magicka or Stamina" choice, given that one will be powerful and the other ridiculously weak depending on whether or not I'm specced for Magicka or Stamina.

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

As if those guys would really care about arguments. Better to not feed the troll. Obviously he's one so I'm surprised someone actually agrees with his suggestions.

And there's the "anyone who disagrees with me is a troll" post. Shame on you.

Here, mister ingnorant, take time to educate yourself before spilling such nonsense again. These are class discriptions and attributes/major/minor skills from previous games. You know, the ones this MMO rips it's lore from.. You can read them at UESP if you don't own any of them.

From TES 4: Oblivion

SORCERER: Besting the most well-equipped fighters, they rely on the spells of the mystic arts. Unique to these mages is the bodily stamina to be armed with the thickest armor.


TES 3: Morrowind

SORCERER
Attributes: Intelligence & Stamina
Minor skills: medium armor, heavy armor, Marksman, short blade

Also, look up what a Battlemage and Spellswords are in previous games.
E: I'll do it for you, since I doub't you will ever invest time to research

OBLIVION
Battlemage: Able to resolve most conflicts with either spell or sword. They are a deadly mix of scholar and soldier.
Spellsword: More nimble and athletic than the sorcerer, and better suited for spell-casting than the knight, their attacks are unpredictable. Students of combat and magic. (Strenght & intelligence; axe & heavy armor as major, long blade & marksman as minor skills)

MORROWIND
Battlemages are wizard-warriors, trained in both lethal spellcasting and heavily armored combat. They sacrifice mobility and versatility for the ability to supplement melee and ranged attacks with elemental damage and summoned creatures.

Spellswords are spellcasting specialists trained to support Imperial troops in skirmish and in battle. Veteran spellswords are prized as mercenaries, and well-suited for careers as adventurers and soldiers-of-fortune. (Attributes: willpower, endurance; block & long blade as major, blunt weapons, axes and medium armor as minor skills)


What you're talking about is a plain "Mage". That's a different old class from an actual Sorcerer.

The only thing I get out of your texts, beside your blatant ignorance, is that you're annoyed with how skills scale with attributes ("I need more than a "Magicka or Stamina" choice, given that one will be powerful and the other ridiculously weak depending on whether or not I'm specced for Magicka or Stamina"). That's an often brought up "issue" and personally, I'd like to see it changed but I doubt that will ever happen, especially with their new approach of baby steps.

BretonMage

In all TES games, magicka is the ONLY resource for spellcasting, though. Magic users, regardless of type, rely only on magicka to cast spells; any reference to stamina in TES lore is for armour use (whether you're able to use light or heavy armour). And we know that sorcerers in ESO use primarily light armor, like the mages in TES. Sorcerers in ESO are basically the equivalent of mages in TES, since they're the light armor-based, magic only (no blades), summoning/destruction class.

Chilly-McFreeze

BretonMage wrote: »

In all TES games, magicka is the ONLY resource for spellcasting, though. Magic users, regardless of type, rely only on magicka to cast spells; any reference to stamina in TES lore is for armour use (whether you're able to use light or heavy armour). And we know that sorcerers in ESO use primarily light armor, like the mages in TES. Sorcerers in ESO are basically the equivalent of mages in TES, since they're the light armor-based, magic only (no blades), summoning/destruction class.

Why aren't Sorcerers in ESO basically the equivalent of Sorcerers in TES?

You're attirbute/ armor weight argument leads nowhere since you could equip whatever you want in e.g. Morrowind and Oblivion. Not to mention that Sorcerers in both titles have at least Heavy Armor as one of their class skills. Stamina in other TES games isn't for armor use, it's only for weapon use, sprinting and jumping.

Your conclusion only fits for ESO's magicka sorcerers, which are indeed what Mages are for other TES games. But that doesn't change the fact that a stamina sorcerer is still a thing in ESO and also in other games, where it's the equivalent of a Sorcerer, Battlemage or Spellsword.

BretonMage

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

BretonMage wrote: »

In all TES games, magicka is the ONLY resource for spellcasting, though. Magic users, regardless of type, rely only on magicka to cast spells; any reference to stamina in TES lore is for armour use (whether you're able to use light or heavy armour). And we know that sorcerers in ESO use primarily light armor, like the mages in TES. Sorcerers in ESO are basically the equivalent of mages in TES, since they're the light armor-based, magic only (no blades), summoning/destruction class.

Why aren't Sorcerers in ESO basically the equivalent of Sorcerers in TES?

You're attirbute/ armor weight argument leads nowhere since you could equip whatever you want in e.g. Morrowind and Oblivion. Not to mention that Sorcerers in both titles have at least Heavy Armor as one of their class skills. Stamina in other TES games isn't for armor use, it's only for weapon use, sprinting and jumping.

Your conclusion only fits for ESO's magicka sorcerers, which are indeed what Mages are for other TES games. But that doesn't change the fact that a stamina sorcerer is still a thing in ESO and also in other games, where it's the equivalent of a Sorcerer, Battlemage or Spellsword.

I think we have all noticed that classes were rendered obsolete by TESV anyway, so concepts such as differences between sorcerers/mages/battlemages/what-have-you were no longer in use. And even before, as you yourself mentioned, we could use any variety of armour we wanted, for a custom class if we wished.

My main point was that magic users in TES use only magicka for spells, and so there is no such thing as stamina sorcerers in TES lore (even if players may use stamina for weapons/sprinting etc). I don't remember reading anywhere that magic users could use their stamina for spells. I know stamina sorcerers exist in ESO, but I assume that's for gameplay/variability reasons.

Squidgaurd

Can you make the attronch ultimate grant another buff when activated or sloted like passive stam recovery/mag or make one of the bolt escape morphs give snare immunity for a short duration of time? or make streak purple everyone loves purple.

Lord-Otto

Squidgaurd wrote: »

Can you make the attronch ultimate grant another buff when activated or sloted like passive stam recovery/mag or make one of the bolt escape morphs give snare immunity for a short duration of time? or make streak purple everyone loves purple.

I WANT PURPLE LIGHTNING!
(0.0)

bardx86

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Squidgaurd wrote: »

Can you make the attronch ultimate grant another buff when activated or sloted like passive stam recovery/mag or make one of the bolt escape morphs give snare immunity for a short duration of time? or make streak purple everyone loves purple.

I WANT PURPLE LIGHTNING!
(0.0)

Purple rain, purple rain

daveywavey

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

daveywavey wrote: »

BaylorCorvette wrote: »

daveywavey wrote: »

So:
1) Remove all Stamina morphs or add more Magicka morphs. Give us a way to choose our build, not just "Oh, I'm Magicka so I only have one morph to choose from". Like we used to before trolls decided that Sorcery-using Characters should use Stamina. Nobody complains that Orcs don't get Magicka Passives, cos it's expected that Orcs are Stamina-based. Sorcerers use Sorcery, and so it's expected that Sorcerers will be Magicka-based.
2) Bar Swap doesn't always work very well when using Dark Conversion.

Wow, just wow. First of all, you can play any class as any race (assuming you have that unlocked from the any race any faction), so to compare Orc racial passives with one of five classes is silly.

Furthermore Sorc has so few Stamina morphs already, and honestly they need more. You're saying they shouldn't have stamina morphs or should have more magicka morphs? Out of 36 possible skill and ulti morphs, FOUR are tailored for Stam Sorc, that's 11% of morphs: Dark Deal, Bound Armaments, Hurricane and Crit Surge and of these four skills two of them cost Magicka to use.

What would you gain by changing those morphs to benefit Magicka Socrs? Dark Deal is just the mirror image of Dark Conversion. If you're using spell power pots you can use Crit Surge for better heals. Hurricane and Boundless are very similar and as far as I'm concerned you can have Bound Armaments.

Yes, absolutely. Anyone can play their classes on whatever race they choose. Just like they can play Magicka or Stamina on any class they choose. But just like you wouldn't choose Redguard for a magicka user or Altmer for a stamina user because you'd end up gimping yourself compared to other players, the same applies to the 'Sorcerer' who, as the name implies, should be 'Sorcery'-based.
Regarding the skills, I'd love to see more skills of both varieties, but I honestly don't think we're going to get more Class skills. So, that leaves the existing ones. In order to get some choice in what features and abilities my skills use, I need more than a "Magicka or Stamina" choice, given that one will be powerful and the other ridiculously weak depending on whether or not I'm specced for Magicka or Stamina.

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

As if those guys would really care about arguments. Better to not feed the troll. Obviously he's one so I'm surprised someone actually agrees with his suggestions.

And there's the "anyone who disagrees with me is a troll" post. Shame on you.

Indistinct prattling and blathering...

*sigh* Ok, I'll bite the bait..

What does it matter what a Battlemage and a Spellsword were? They aren't Sorcerers, so that (almost-)point is worthless and off-topic in a Sorcerer thread. Please stay on-topic.

The concept of Classes in TES4 and 5 was lost along the way, so any reference to them seems unproductive.

As you say, magic-users in TES: Morrowind were encouraged to use Heavy Armour as extra protection for if an enemy did get up close, while the Stamina Users could use their better agility and movement to help keep out of the way. Divayth Fyr, for example, is a classic example of a Heavy Armoured magic-user from TES:3; a Heavy Armoured magic-user who, guess what, USES MAGIC!!! Weaker weapons like Short Blade were added purely because we had no Magicka Regeneration in TES:3. Once your Magicka was gone, you were down to bare basics. Also, the Sorcerer Class in TES:3 had the Bound Dagger spell, and so needed the Short Blade skill for that.

Since you like copied descriptions, here's the actual Sorcerer description for you:
Sorcerer

In-game Description: Though spellcasters by vocation, sorcerers rely most on summonings and enchantments. They are greedy for magic scrolls, rings, armor and weapons, and commanding undead and Daedric servants gratifies their egos.Specialization: MagicAttributes: Intelligence, Endurance

And here's the Encyclopaedia Britannica's description of Sorcery. Note that it doesn't mention Stamina anywhere:
Sorcery, the practice of malevolent magic, derived from casting lots as a means of divining the future in the ancient Mediterranean world. Some scholars distinguish sorcery from witchcraft by noting that it is learned rather than intrinsic. Other scholars, noting that modern witches claim to learn their craft, suggest that sorcery’s intent is always evil and that of witchcraft can be either good or bad. In the early Christian era, the term was applied to any magician or wizard but by the Middle Ages only to those who allegedly practiced magic intended to harm others. In Western popular culture, and in Western children’s literature in particular, the sorcerer often assumes a more positive guise.


Perhaps you'd like to check your facts before you troll other people's posts with drivel. Your "research" skills could do with some work.