Monthly Combat Update – December 2017

ZOS_GinaBruno

Hi everyone,

First, apologies for the delay in getting this month’s combat update published. We greatly appreciate the amount of constructive feedback you provided in our first combat update last month, and we plan to continue providing regular updates. With that said, we want to be clear that each month may not be as meaty; it depends on where we are in our development cycle. That doesn’t mean we’re doing less work, but just that we’re in more of a polishing phase rather than working on large changes.

Since we posted the November update, we’ve been mainly focusing on fixing bugs (some that you’ve seen in recent incremental patches, but most of are still internal and for Update 17) and doing some work for Update 18, which we aren’t quite ready to discuss yet. We’re still moving full steam ahead with the synergy improvements we talked about last month, which you’ll see when Update 17 hits the PTS. We’re also continuing to work on improving interrupt, including adding a short cooldown to any interrupted ability. We noticed some confusion when we first mentioned this change, so we’d like to clarify: the reasoning behind this change is to add more strategic play when you interrupt another player’s ability, and in turn give players using abilities with a cast time an opportunity to use them against other players who repeatedly use interrupts.

Another thing you’ll see when Update 17 goes to the PTS is a reduction in damage for some charge abilities. Decreasing their damage is going to ensure that at-range players who are utilizing movement and terrain to maintain their distance from melee enemies are better rewarded for that tactical advantage.

Last month, we mentioned that we were looking at shortening the Heavy Attack cooldown, but ultimately decided not to go with this change to avoid making too many dramatic changes at once.

We’re also beginning to look at ways to improve group combat in Cyrodiil, particularly when groups of varying sizes fight each other. Some specific concerns we’ve been looking into include:

• Not enough effective options to deal damage to clustered groups from afar
• Earthgore is too powerful in group vs group battles
• Not enough diversity in Ultimate choice
• Large groups can have players take on specialized utility roles, reducing counter-play options against them

We’re still talking about what exactly we’ll be doing, but once we have a better idea of the direction we’re taking, we’ll include it in one of the next combat updates.

Finally, once Update 17 is available on the PTS, you’ll notice that not many class abilities have changed. We’ve instead focused our efforts on the things we previously talked to you about, including:

• Synergy improvements
• Updates to cast time and channeled abilities
• Block cost changes
• Improvements to off-balance and Heavy Attacks

We look forward to having everyone try these changes on the PTS for Update 17. Again, please remember what’s listed here isn’t everything the team is working on. Keep the feedback coming, and thanks for your continued input!

KingExecration

Surprise surprise

Vanthras79

Thanks Gina for the update!

When can we expect to see update 17 on the pts and what is update 17? (yes I know i am searching for nuggets )

ZOS_GinaBruno

Vanthras79 wrote: »

Thanks Gina for the update!

When can we expect to see update 17 on the pts and what is update 17? (yes I know i am searching for nuggets )

You'll find out soon enough.

Vanthras79

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Another thing you’ll see when Update 17 goes to the PTS is a reduction in damage for some charge abilities. Decreasing their damage is going to ensure that at-range players who are utilizing movement and terrain to maintain their distance from melee enemies are better rewarded for that tactical advantage.

Again, please remember what’s listed here isn’t everything the team is working on. Keep the feedback coming, and thanks for your continued input!

So will this help with light armor caster survivability from charge->knockdown->dead? It seems that two handed weapons and stam are way too powerful in battlegrounds vs. the light armor caster archetype (shields and mobility was nerfed to favor the stam builds but never re-examined, I suppose.)

GoldParadox

Looking forward to this OwO

Koolio

With the nerf to gap closer is there anyway to improve their reliability?

You can barely connect with them any more

InvitationNotFound

sounds like ***. sorry to say, but this sounds like you try to screw group play in favor or more zerging.
reduce how organized groups can act in favor of 50+ players stacking at a point spaming ranged ***.

Cinbri

I afraid that you might do cast time abilities uninterruptable during cc immunity. It will be disastrous. Imagine tanks spamming relic take on bgs and you cant do anything to prevent it, etc.
Hopefully you also do searching for ways to fix such old bugs as jabs incorrectly calculation its area of cone attacks, that making use of jabs in movement to not connect with enemy in range.

Apherius

Cinbri wrote: »

I afraid that you might do cast time abilities uninterruptable during cc immunity. It will be disastrous. Imagine tanks spamming relic take on bgs and you cant do anything to prevent it, etc.

I was just thinking to it ... it's horrible ...

Unfortunaly they will probably be flooded about the incoming " nerf crystal blast " thread or " I can't interrupt darkdeal" thread before.

Paulington

Thanks for the post Gina, looking forward to seeing what comes with Update 17 on the PTS.

Firstmep

Cinbri wrote: »

I afraid that you might do cast time abilities uninterruptable during cc immunity. It will be disastrous. Imagine tanks spamming relic take on bgs and you cant do anything to prevent it, etc.

Hopefully theyre smart enough, and wont overlook something like this.

casparian

Thanks for this, Gina!

Back in the Morrowind patch, magicka templars started reporting (in the Bug Reports section and elsewhere) that the execute damage from Radiant Destruction wasn't scaling correctly when combined with other % bonuses (CP, Minor Berserk, etc.). Turns out the problem affected % scaling executes in general (their bonuses were being calculated additivy instead of multiplicatively), and so y'all fixed the problem in the HOTR patch -- except for Radiant Destruction, which is still being calculated exactly the same (incorrect) way as in Morrowind. There have also been numerous reports that Puncturing Sweeps is suffering from the same issue, despite not being an execute ability.

Can you tell us whether anyone is looking into these bugs?

Firstmep

I dont know if the proposed change would make me want to slot dark flare, even now when its interruptable, the long travel time and the obvious casting animation is what making this bad for solo play. Its too easy to avoid and leaves me vulnurable to counter attacks, even if it doesnt get interrupted. Puncturing Sweeps is undodgable and heals so the risk is a lot smaller.
Also with no real mobility on templars, ranged builds are just not that effective.
The one mobility skill we have is a gapcloser, so it makes sense to be in melee range.

DivineFirstYOLO

I'm really curious about what is going to change, i hope those "nerf purge, nerf maneuvre, nerf desto, nerf everything" noobs on the forums won't win - @ZOS_GinaBruno hope you guys also find some love for 2-12 men groups who fight 30++

BohnT

@ZOS_GinaBruno thanks for the Update.
Will the following points be adressed in the future? :
-Stamdk/ Stamsorc spammable
-Magplar scaling fixes
-Class Balance overall (Bring stamwarden, stamnb & magsorc a bit down and raise stamdk/ stamsorc)
-Reliable snare removal for all classes
-Buffs to various unused skills
-Nerfs to poisons
-Nerfs to defile stacking

scipionumatia

synergy increase good
block cost increase BOOOOOOO another indirect dk nerf.... thx
improvement to heavy attacks, thanks ill take it

please buff dk, every patch its nerfs on nerfs I'm tired of constant throttling of the characters ive worked so hard on.

SirCritical

Block cost change again, bleh

Theodard

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

You'll find out soon enough.

No we wont. Soon enough for me is right now. However, since there's still more work to be done before it drops I'll let it slide. This time.

VelociousLegend

Looking forward to learning more to how the interrupt counter-play will work. Loving the transparency from the developers for new areas being improved.

Has there been any discussion or ideas about how to revamp/improve Cyrodiil? Cyrodiil PvP is currently is just zerg vs zerg at the same 2-4 locations around the emp keep circle. Incentivizing players to spread out and attack/defend other locations on the map may go a long way to improving Cyrodiil performance issues.

IC could use some love too. That place is mostly a dead zone. Move IC to base game to include more players, make a separate queue for IC, and add some new gameplay element or incentive to go in there to PvP.

Sandman929

"Large groups can have players take on specialized utility roles, reducing counter-play options against them"

Is this a problem? Are group roles a bad thing? Confused on this part.

Sandman929

Large groups can also have dedicated healers healing incoming damage. You guys should take a look at that too.

technohic

Mmm like these nuggets

davidj8291

“We’re also beginning to look at ways to improve group combat in Cyrodiil, particularly when groups of varying sizes fight each other. Some specific concerns we’ve been looking into include:
Not enough effective options to deal damage to clustered groups from afar
Earthgore is too powerful in group vs group battles
Not enough diversity in Ultimate choice
Large groups can have players take on specialized utility roles, reducing counter-play options against them“
————
So:
- Why do we need a ranged burst ability? The only viable answer here is just another cancerous ability: Ranged burst that CCs that isn’t the Meteor Ultimate.
- Earthgore isn’t too powerful. There are broken mechanics like it removing ground AoEs and Negates when it procs. Don’t nerf it. Fix it.
- No complaints. It’s almost like you haven’t been listening the past year and a half that a massive area, high damage, moving AoE Ultimate makes all the others look subpar.
- What Sandman said above; What is wrong with Utility and roles in a group. Those Utility roles also make a group of 12-16 able to stand up to a group of 40 pugged together. So what exactly are you getting at?

ManDraKE

The nerf to gap closers dmg was a long time pending, being able of hit 5-7k gap closer hits on PvP was absurd.

davidj8291

scipionumatia wrote: »

synergy increase good
block cost increase BOOOOOOO another indirect dk nerf.... thx
improvement to heavy attacks, thanks ill take it

please buff dk, every patch its nerfs on nerfs I'm tired of constant throttling of the characters ive worked so hard on.

If they would stop pigeonholing DKs into block holding builds, it wouldn’t be a problem. If they nerf block but buff DKs, I’ll be fine.

davidj8291

DivineFirstYOLO wrote: »

I'm really curious about what is going to change, i hope those "nerf purge, nerf maneuvre, nerf desto, nerf everything" noobs on the forums won't win - @ZOS_GinaBruno hope you guys also find some love for 2-12 men groups who fight 30++

This. I can’t tell if ZOS just wants a zerg vs zerg world where hundreds of random builds clash in a battle of “who gets the better lag” or they want to encourage tactical fights with organized groups.

Draxys

PLEASE do not listen to the people complaining about groups taking on specialized support roles. That is a good thing. Nerfing group support roles will only reinforce the already nearly unchallengeable swarms of 40 players. The only way to fight them is with a well composed group of 8-16, WITH support roles.

You removed the counter to these large groups a long time ago- dynamic ultimate. Was it OP? Maybe, but add a form of it back to the game and you won’t have to add bandaids like vicious death/eye of flame, or continue nerfing things that actually just end up hurting the smaller and well built groups instead.

davidj8291

I’m coming off complainy, got some leftover cynicism from the load screens methinks:
Either way, appreciate the update as to what you are doing. Thanks for keeping us in the loop at the very least.

Solariken

Hip-hip-hooray for gap closer adjustments! A little love for ranged builds will go a long way.

Some really promising things you listed here Gina.

technohic

davidj8291 wrote: »

scipionumatia wrote: »

synergy increase good
block cost increase BOOOOOOO another indirect dk nerf.... thx
improvement to heavy attacks, thanks ill take it

please buff dk, every patch its nerfs on nerfs I'm tired of constant throttling of the characters ive worked so hard on.

If they would stop pigeonholing DKs into block holding builds, it wouldn’t be a problem. If they nerf block but buff DKs, I’ll be fine.

They did the same thing to Templar for a long time. Everyone kept complaining about BOL spam. Everything got nerfed leading to that being more and more of a thing.


As to others worried about them bein after organized groups; it’s not about wanting organized groups or not. It’s some of this stuf gets multiplied beyond its value on paper. They have to decide for how the envision their game to play. Do they want individuals performing as independent capable play? Or do they want one guy to spam heals and purify, another to just focus on damage, another to focus on stuns and snares.

I liken it to PVE where there game design decisions have been made on going with the trinity style game or to break that mold.