Monthly Combat Update – December 2017

Xsorus

Let me point out the benefits right now of reducing the large group cap from 24 to something like 8 people

You instantly create 3 separate groups from the current 24 man groups...That's 3 different groups that is now roaming.

Groups that were running 4-8 people now become instantly viable threats to those new 8 man groups. You would have far less barrier for groups to form up and compete in group vs group in this game. Right now if you're running say 8 people and there is a 24 man running around you're not going to compete....

Things like Earthgore and Rapids become far less powerful as you now don't have a crap ton of those in an actual group fight..you can't afford to dedicate one person to just spamming rapids.

Zergballing instantly becomes far less viable as the AOE cap is at 6, While you will probably group up for damage it'll be on pushes into larger numbers.

now some will say "Well now you have no one to fight those giant zergs" Which isn't true...You'll still have 8 mans pairing up or attacking the zergs but instead of it coming at them in a giant ball spamming Destro ult it'll probably be multiple groups hitting from different angles. The multiple groups moving around the area will also thin the herd so to speak as people heading to the fight are picked off by those multiple groups

also people who were stacking up to zerg before will be able to get into group vs group combat easier simply because the barrier for entry is now less numbers.

Just something as simple as reducing the cap would change the group vs group dynamic in this game.

Draxys

Xsorus wrote: »

Let me point out the benefits right now of reducing the large group cap from 24 to something like 8 people

You instantly create 3 separate groups from the current 24 man groups...That's 3 different groups that is now roaming.

Groups that were running 4-8 people now become instantly viable threats to those new 8 man groups. You would have far less barrier for groups to form up and compete in group vs group in this game. Right now if you're running say 8 people and there is a 24 man running around you're not going to compete....

Things like Earthgore and Rapids become far less powerful as you now don't have a crap ton of those in an actual group fight..you can't afford to dedicate one person to just spamming rapids.

Zergballing instantly becomes far less viable as the AOE cap is at 6, While you will probably group up for damage it'll be on pushes into larger numbers.

now some will say "Well now you have no one to fight those giant zergs" Which isn't true...You'll still have 8 mans pairing up or attacking the zergs but instead of it coming at them in a giant ball spamming Destro ult it'll probably be multiple groups hitting from different angles. The multiple groups moving around the area will also thin the herd so to speak as people heading to the fight are picked off by those multiple groups

also people who were stacking up to zerg before will be able to get into group vs group combat easier simply because the barrier for entry is now less numbers.

Just something as simple as reducing the cap would change the group vs group dynamic in this game.

I understand your logic and I wouldn’t be opposed to that change. But I don’t think we can seriously suggest that the larger groups wouldn’t just all stay in the same TS channel and instead have 3 groups of 8 running around together. They would be slowed down a bit due to not everyone having the crown on their screen, but I don’t see how that would stop them from just doing the same thing they do now.

Juhasow

Gravord wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Like I said earlier You can get pretty close DPS to those people get with vMA bow while You're wearing master bow so vMA bow is not the case of single target DPS adventage of stamina characters.

Yeah, almost 20% of total dmg coming from Hail yet you gonna keep instists its not vMA bow... that debate wont take us far.

Is that all what You can come with ? Ironic statement without any reasonable informations behind it , proving only that You have no idea what you're talking about and You dont even know how to answer with sense to my previous words ?

It's like You would think without vMA bow endless hail is not doing dmg at all. Well guess what it does and it's still one of the strongest abilities on bar that will propably still be on 1st place and in worst case mayb on 2nd or 3rd. On the parse You linked if that stam nb would not wear vMA bow his endless hail would still got ~6k DPS.

Change vMA bow to Master one and yes in fact You'll loose that 3k DPS from endless hail but You'll get more DPS from all other abilities because You'll have additional 300 wep dmg to all of them. For comparision on stamplar in the same setups just with changing the bows I was doing selfbuffed 41k DPS on skeleton with vMA bow and 39,7k with master bow. Huuuge difference definietly saying that vMA bow is one of the main reasons why stamina DD's getting even over 10k higher single target DPS...

If You would dig more You would know that current difference in single target DPS between magicka and stamina DD's is higher then overall DPS from endless hail even with vMA bow and skeleton parses are irrelevant source of DPS comparisions...

Morgul667

Nerf gap closer o.O

Range char were not strong enough lol

Anyway time will tell if this is a good change

But charge relaibility should be increased

Gandrhulf_Harbard

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone,


Another thing you’ll see when Update 17 goes to the PTS is a reduction in damage for some charge abilities. Decreasing their damage is going to ensure that at-range players who are utilizing movement and terrain to maintain their distance from melee enemies are better rewarded for that tactical advantage.

How does reduction to damage from an effect that won't be hitting (they are maintaining distance from melee after all) equate to a tactical advantage?

Reducing the damage from a successful charge does NOT benefit the players who have used tactics to avoid being charged.

It DOES benefit players who have failed to use such tactics.

Sounds an awful lot like more dumbing down.

All The Best

Shinkhan

Thank you @ZOS_GinaBruno

I am very exited to see what update 17 will bring to us, especially regarding heavy attacks and off balance.
btw do you have any comment about making two handed weapons a two set piece ?

Best regards !

Shinkhan

ak_pvp

Suggestion:

Complete AoE cap removal on both effects and damage.

I.e. Encase/talons/fear would affect anyone, be it 2 or 20 players within the area fairly. They would deal full damage and CC anyone without immunity.

This is fair as currently groups get a passive advantage with many of them being able to ignore damage and CC. Even the death recap on my DK says I should use talons if outnumbered, but when it stops working for some arbitrary reason.

The only abilities that wouldn't work with this are those who have stuns/CCs as a secondary single target effect. I.E. Crystal blast would only CC the inital target but deal splash damage to anyone within the radius. Same with the magicka morph of. shalk

@ZOS_Wrobel

SodanTok

Well, I hope there is still something planned for heavy attacks. It is still unreasonable how some weapons have 2.4s long heavy attacks (well, including the slight cancellable animation) with self snare while others (ehm ehm dw) are barely noticeable and even replaced spammables on many builds.

BohnT

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

@BohnT

I understand completely what you were saying.

So you are saying that because you have never found a counter to a dot defile build they should be nerfed. Your argument is we should have 31cp instead of 50cp at 42% ? Ok ... so where does that leave abilities skills passives potions dedicated healers monster set and regular sets that proc heals and buff them them 24/7 ? I see you can stack your heals buff them, proc them activate them, pop them when ever you like. I feel you may have 1 style of game play, and heavy reliant on. ( Old metas that do not work anymore. )

And you say and i qoute "

On most stam builds (not duel based) your vigor will tick between 1.8-3.4k with non-crits and crits. Reducing this by 70% and your healing goes down to 560-1020 there is no used dot in the game which doesn't apply enough damage to negate the healing of vigor. If you check combat parses most people have ~3-4k hps when they are fighting.

So your talking about most people, and their normal gameplay ? That is obviously not duel wield ? About thier vigor ticks with both debuffs on you ? Well thats simple change you build and gameplay. I only play sorc stam and mag day1 i have or had no problems adjusting to each patch update dlc in the 2 1/2 years i played in pvp and pve. The problem is that fact your healing is being negated by your normal gameplay in pvp not in pve. If the defile was nerfed every1 in thecgame would stay alive 24/7. Your also dying to this i pressume, and possibly known as a good player. Thus making you look bad in front of other players. That's also normal and should be ... thier is a counter to everything even my build you or anybody just hasn't found it yet. And i will most definitely not say it either.


Bye saying reduce it to 25% is insanity and the super healing is back. People can already outheal 3-4 oils being dropped on them why dont they align oils dam with cp or siege ? Before making an argument please look at the game as a whole and not how you or any popular person feels.

Heres the thing ... im a stam sorc dw and bow i have a build that is been reliable for 7 months in pvp after the fassalas nerf. I suggest to anybody that is runs a YouTube twitch build to step aside to that person if you see anybody running a DW and bow do not mess with just zerg them down do not attempt to 1v1 them.

You should stop praising "your" build these builds have been around for years now on PC EU and they are simple hardcounter builds like shieldbreaker+ infused torugs to one build while losing to every other build in the game.
Tell me the counter to dot builds? Is it that crappy purge skill that won't help you because it costs 5k and only removes 2 debuffs. Is it respeccing to magicka sorc / templar/ nb/warden to ignore defiles?
Super healing was 100% major mending + major vitality and 25% healing taken + healing dealt cp.
Major mending 100% uptime is impossible on almost any class if you want to fight, major vitality has low uptime with the nerf to potions, sustain overall got wrecked so the full dmg builds with no sustain investment got removed aswell, cp trees got reduced to 15% healing taken / dealt.
The counter to your build is playing a class with access to purge or shields. On my magnb i laugh at people using defiles and dots so do i on my stamplar or my magplar.

You're telling me you played mag and Stamsorc for 2 1/2 years. The time when one of those always was on top of the PvP performance.

Ask people like @Subversus @KenaPKK @Hexys how balanced defile stacking is

Drakkdjinn

simeion wrote: »

There are few ways to get groups to spread out. A few of these ideas are not bad others could be devasting to small group or single play, but let’s be realalistc here, Cyrodiil is supposed to be about large scale war.
1. Only let siege shield mitiagate siege
2. Speed siege up.(not rate of fire but speed of projectile.)
3. All siege causes minor defile
4. Bring back old proxy det(let it scale off targets hit, and scales down for how many is in your group.

Just a few thoughts.

Why do ppl confuse PvP with PvSiege?

Xsorus

Draxys wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Let me point out the benefits right now of reducing the large group cap from 24 to something like 8 people

You instantly create 3 separate groups from the current 24 man groups...That's 3 different groups that is now roaming.

Groups that were running 4-8 people now become instantly viable threats to those new 8 man groups. You would have far less barrier for groups to form up and compete in group vs group in this game. Right now if you're running say 8 people and there is a 24 man running around you're not going to compete....

Things like Earthgore and Rapids become far less powerful as you now don't have a crap ton of those in an actual group fight..you can't afford to dedicate one person to just spamming rapids.

Zergballing instantly becomes far less viable as the AOE cap is at 6, While you will probably group up for damage it'll be on pushes into larger numbers.

now some will say "Well now you have no one to fight those giant zergs" Which isn't true...You'll still have 8 mans pairing up or attacking the zergs but instead of it coming at them in a giant ball spamming Destro ult it'll probably be multiple groups hitting from different angles. The multiple groups moving around the area will also thin the herd so to speak as people heading to the fight are picked off by those multiple groups

also people who were stacking up to zerg before will be able to get into group vs group combat easier simply because the barrier for entry is now less numbers.

Just something as simple as reducing the cap would change the group vs group dynamic in this game.

I understand your logic and I wouldn’t be opposed to that change. But I don’t think we can seriously suggest that the larger groups wouldn’t just all stay in the same TS channel and instead have 3 groups of 8 running around together. They would be slowed down a bit due to not everyone having the crown on their screen, but I don’t see how that would stop them from just doing the same thing they do now.

And that would be fine and viable tactic. It however would make each group require certain things because of abilities being group only. The community also might push towards players not doing it as well.

I’ll use an example from DAOC, there was a Midgard group on Merlin that tried running two groups and got dogged by the community till they switched to just 8. Now if this gaming community would force that is unknown but I feel like it’ll alter the community perspective.

Plus you would have the whole EGO aspect of it. Yes they could run 3 groups but if everyone is running 8 all of a sudden would you really want to be the group that was considered so bad you needed 3 groups to fight one? Most I imagine wouldn’t want that reputation.

The_Brosteen

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

@BohnT

Im concerned with your post that you maybe dont understand how this works. Let me explain to you how this works, also break down what you have said as an explanation to @ZOS_Wrobel .

Major Defile Decrease Healing taken and Health
Recovery by 30%

Minor defile Decrease Healing taken and Health recovery by 15%

Now in the Befoul cp tree you can have 100 cp into that tree and will go to 55%. That means on Major Defile it will allow me to have 46.5% rounded down is 46% debuff, and with minor 23.25% rounded down is 23%

How do i get these numbers ? Well 55% of 30% is 46.5 % and 55% of 15% is 23.25%. In Theory you can have a total of 70% healing taken and hp recovery debuff.


Now you said and i quote

"Defile stacking means using both minor and Major defile with 100% uptime with 50+ Points into befoul to reduce healing to almost 0. "

Now in order to get an accurate assumption you would have to do the research and testing to see what is effect healing taken and is any heal you or anybody gives you. And health Recovery is self explanatory see 50+cp at a min of 50% will only gain 42.25% rounded down to 42% and on 15% is 21.15 rounded down is 21% Totaling at min major defile at 50cp would be 42% and at max 100cp would be at 46% stacking both major and minor would be 63% at 50cp. And at 100cp would be 69%.

Now to tell you about your other reasoning you said.

" There is no counterplay for most classes as you don't have as much Access to Major mending, vitality etc. This wrecks anybuild that has no access to purge (everyone except for templar the other classes can't use purge due to low cd on defile providing sets/abilities and the high cost of purge) .

As far as counter play goes, well thier is a lot of counter play as to knowing your class and understanding what you can and cannot do. Your argument is access to buffs that allow you to increase your healing, and purging effects is the counter play to it thier are sets and abilities that allow you to remove negative affects from that group and yourself. Unfortunately nobody runs them because its based on 1 type of gameplay. ( And thats support ) Purge is high for a reason and thats because if everybody can remove effect 24/7 thier would be no reason to have dots in the game besides pve.

And last but not least your argument of.

"It's just too powerfull as your opportunity cost in the cp are almost not exsisting while stacking into healing reduces your damag or your survivability. Problematic is duroks bane/ reverbating bash as you'll have 100% Major defile uptime on your enemies easily with no drawbacks.

I'd say the amount of skills and abilities potions and passives for healing heavily outweighs the amount of healing debuffs in the game today. Their was a huge problem is cyrodiil for the super healing dps super unkillable tanks and super healers everybody needs to be killable. And duroks has been in the game since day 1 and as soon as people start dying because the counter play has been semi balanced on heals people start complaining.

Because if anybody listens to somebody about a set needs to be nerfed, has to learn to be creative in builds.

And i take full responsibility on this current meta in bleeds and duroks. If you need any help destroying these uncreative complainers please click on link.


https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/359042/p-m-s-build-stam-sorc

I tested a warden build a while back that used fassallas and corrupting pollen with a bunch of points into cp for defile (I forget how many). I tested against someones pve healer and their BOL crit for 1.2k, it was kinda absurd how effective it was. Watching templars lifting up their resto staves and waving their hands around frantically with almost no effect during keep fights was really funny.

ak_pvp

Xsorus wrote: »

Draxys wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Let me point out the benefits right now of reducing the large group cap from 24 to something like 8 people

You instantly create 3 separate groups from the current 24 man groups...That's 3 different groups that is now roaming.

Groups that were running 4-8 people now become instantly viable threats to those new 8 man groups. You would have far less barrier for groups to form up and compete in group vs group in this game. Right now if you're running say 8 people and there is a 24 man running around you're not going to compete....

Things like Earthgore and Rapids become far less powerful as you now don't have a crap ton of those in an actual group fight..you can't afford to dedicate one person to just spamming rapids.

Zergballing instantly becomes far less viable as the AOE cap is at 6, While you will probably group up for damage it'll be on pushes into larger numbers.

now some will say "Well now you have no one to fight those giant zergs" Which isn't true...You'll still have 8 mans pairing up or attacking the zergs but instead of it coming at them in a giant ball spamming Destro ult it'll probably be multiple groups hitting from different angles. The multiple groups moving around the area will also thin the herd so to speak as people heading to the fight are picked off by those multiple groups

also people who were stacking up to zerg before will be able to get into group vs group combat easier simply because the barrier for entry is now less numbers.

Just something as simple as reducing the cap would change the group vs group dynamic in this game.

I understand your logic and I wouldn’t be opposed to that change. But I don’t think we can seriously suggest that the larger groups wouldn’t just all stay in the same TS channel and instead have 3 groups of 8 running around together. They would be slowed down a bit due to not everyone having the crown on their screen, but I don’t see how that would stop them from just doing the same thing they do now.

And that would be fine and viable tactic. It however would make each group require certain things because of abilities being group only. The community also might push towards players not doing it as well.

I’ll use an example from DAOC, there was a Midgard group on Merlin that tried running two groups and got dogged by the community till they switched to just 8. Now if this gaming community would force that is unknown but I feel like it’ll alter the community perspective.

Plus you would have the whole EGO aspect of it. Yes they could run 3 groups but if everyone is running 8 all of a sudden would you really want to be the group that was considered so bad you needed 3 groups to fight one? Most I imagine wouldn’t want that reputation.

Thing is, around half of zergs are ungrouped players looking for fights. And ego hardly matters if you are running with a 24 man group now anyway. Oh, look my light attack on the single player really gave me a sense of pride and accomplishment.

Kronuxx

Morgul667 wrote: »

Nerf gap closer o.O

Range char were not strong enough lol

Anyway time will tell if this is a good change

But charge relaibility should be increased

@ZOS_GinaBruno exactly what this man said and many others. It makes no sense to create a less effective charge against a ranged character when the said charge ability is already difficult to land due to 1) poor pathing 2) load screens coming up in the middle of a charge 3) landscape clipping and landscape inclines and declines (even through mild gradual grades of landscape elevation) preventing a proper charge to be executed. Again, I repeat it makes no sense. Ranged characters already don't have to deal with the first two issues.

In short, before even thinking about decreasing the damage of charge abilities, you should increase their effectiveness to land in the first place. Then, if need be, you can decrease damage of certain charge abilities that warrant it. I mean, you guys do realize not everything needs a blanket nerf, right? Come on guys, please think before you say or do. Just once, think things through.

Xsorus

ak_pvp wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Draxys wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Let me point out the benefits right now of reducing the large group cap from 24 to something like 8 people

You instantly create 3 separate groups from the current 24 man groups...That's 3 different groups that is now roaming.

Groups that were running 4-8 people now become instantly viable threats to those new 8 man groups. You would have far less barrier for groups to form up and compete in group vs group in this game. Right now if you're running say 8 people and there is a 24 man running around you're not going to compete....

Things like Earthgore and Rapids become far less powerful as you now don't have a crap ton of those in an actual group fight..you can't afford to dedicate one person to just spamming rapids.

Zergballing instantly becomes far less viable as the AOE cap is at 6, While you will probably group up for damage it'll be on pushes into larger numbers.

now some will say "Well now you have no one to fight those giant zergs" Which isn't true...You'll still have 8 mans pairing up or attacking the zergs but instead of it coming at them in a giant ball spamming Destro ult it'll probably be multiple groups hitting from different angles. The multiple groups moving around the area will also thin the herd so to speak as people heading to the fight are picked off by those multiple groups

also people who were stacking up to zerg before will be able to get into group vs group combat easier simply because the barrier for entry is now less numbers.

Just something as simple as reducing the cap would change the group vs group dynamic in this game.

I understand your logic and I wouldn’t be opposed to that change. But I don’t think we can seriously suggest that the larger groups wouldn’t just all stay in the same TS channel and instead have 3 groups of 8 running around together. They would be slowed down a bit due to not everyone having the crown on their screen, but I don’t see how that would stop them from just doing the same thing they do now.

And that would be fine and viable tactic. It however would make each group require certain things because of abilities being group only. The community also might push towards players not doing it as well.

I’ll use an example from DAOC, there was a Midgard group on Merlin that tried running two groups and got dogged by the community till they switched to just 8. Now if this gaming community would force that is unknown but I feel like it’ll alter the community perspective.

Plus you would have the whole EGO aspect of it. Yes they could run 3 groups but if everyone is running 8 all of a sudden would you really want to be the group that was considered so bad you needed 3 groups to fight one? Most I imagine wouldn’t want that reputation.

Thing is, around half of zergs are ungrouped players looking for fights. And ego hardly matters if you are running with a 24 man group now anyway. Oh, look my light attack on the single player really gave me a sense of pride and accomplishment.

I’m not really talking about ungrouped pug players running in a large zerg. They’re kinda suppose to do that to make up for the lack of a group. It’s the exact reason most battlegrounds in MMOs don’t actually work. Because you get premade groups vs pugs and the one Avenue for for pugs to fight premades is completely removed by the battleground player limit.

Now developers generally respond by separating premade vs pug but that ends up with premades being punished for grouping and long wait times. In fact a change like that completely killed Rift pvp system when it was made and resulted in a huge exodus of pvp guilds.

How the flip end is if you make the group cap able to go to zerg like levels in an open world pvp system pugs lose their ability to fight those premade groups. It’s basically the same problem as battlegrounds but on the opposite end of the scale.

Meld777

What I'd like to see:

- Fix to Shadow Image - teleport working only 1 out of 10 times
- Fix to Cloak - it's expensive and should work a lot more reliably. When you press it, you should be in stealth, end of discussion, I'm talking override command, unless of course you stand in AoE.
- Group Finder penalty should be increased to at least 30 min, be account-wide, and start when someone leaves the dungeon, not when someone enters, and only the first two people to leave should get it.
- And while we're on it, fix the group finder. And by fixing it, I mean revert it to pre-Homestead. No more ready checks. Not that I don't like them, I just prefer a quick group finder that is working as intended.
- Various fixes to Eidetic Memory.

WeylandLabs

@BohnT This guy Lmfao We calling out names now ?

Obviously you are very eager to know how to counter these builds. I have said it before and i will say it again. ( Im a console player, and therefore get no credibility, by a lot of the PC community. Im perfectly fine with that... ) Unfortunately you are still not thinking outside the box, id ask the people you may know or named rudley in this argument on how to counter it.

And you are 100% i should'nt have said your. Im thr guy on console that brought it. I give all credit and knowledge to of this to and creator to @PrinceFabious AKA Dubzug. Im sure you and the people you named also know him as the retirement god.

Here is a hint: To help you and others

Why are you still trying to out heal it or remove it ? Think in terms of accepting it and use it via playstyle or skills and abilities. Please dont try to decypher this, i using this in terms to say step out of logic and use creativity and no its not a hybrid.


And its funny you should say that about my time played on sorc and to honestly tell you. It wasn't mag i was playing on in pvp. It was my stam sorc and i am the 1st Stam Sorc GO on ps4 NA. So ya.. i know about my class in and out, and tested pretty much everything. Please dont ask how i test on console either, its horrible and timely process i have to go through.


And you lul at people using Dots on ur Stamplar and magplar ? I love facing them, i think i will update my P.M.S build now.

And @The_Brosteen

Nice great creative support idea to help your people out. Dont know much about warden but id fassalas with barkskin to many things in the game that is a spammable snare. Trust me on this its really good and if you can the asylum S/B. Check it out.

Thraben

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone,


We’re also beginning to look at ways to improve group combat in Cyrodiil, particularly when groups of varying sizes fight each other. Some specific concerns we’ve been looking into include:

• Not enough effective options to deal damage to clustered groups from afar
• Earthgore is too powerful in group vs group battles
• Not enough diversity in Ultimate choice
• Large groups can have players take on specialized utility roles, reducing counter-play options against them

We look forward to having everyone try these changes on the PTS for Update 17. Again, please remember what’s listed here isn’t everything the team is working on. Keep the feedback coming, and thanks for your continued input!

All of your points have merit.

I´d like to add:

(1) Certain classes, StamBlades in particular, have no place in group play outside of ganking. In other games they kill/ interrupt healers; that´s not really possible with the current skill set and ui, so StamBlades are more a liability than anything else due to their inherent squishyness and Vicious Death.

(2) MagTemplars and MagSorcs have their own ranged anti-bomb-train skills, and all other magicka classes could use the Inev. Deto if it had a shorter cast time. So It´s more a stamina class problem.

An easy fix apart from Earthgore would be: Make Warrior Guild skills great again! Clustered groups consist almost exclusively of vamps, make them BURN when they enter the ENLARGED Circle of Protection. Give the one crossbow morph ("Silver Fire") a one-second cast time and add a delayed Holy Handgranade effect to it

HairyFairy

I have talked to many people, @ZOS_GinaBruno about how much fun it would be if the keeps changed to more race-themed keeps! I want to siege and take an orcish stronghold!

Arthg

I support critical doubts on the changes to gap-closers.

They're unreliable for two reasons:

1) loading screens teleporting us in the middle of nowhere (try one around Nickel for starters)
2) Miat's notifications effectively neutering them.

I would also like to remind you devs and mods of a commitment you made to at least TAKE A STANCE regarding Miat's addon, which has completely modified PC gameplay.

The commitment was formulated here:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4581943/#Comment_4581943

Two months and two combat updates later, could we please have information on whether you'll be doing something at all, and on whether you're still "uncomfortable" with anything?

Considering how deeply this third-party addon affects PvP gameplay on PC, I think an official statement is long overdue.

Many thanks!

[EDIT]: @BohnT pointed me out to a message on the second page of this thread where Gina says the API is going to change

Ranger209

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We’re also beginning to look at ways to improve group combat in Cyrodiil, particularly when groups of varying sizes fight each other. Some specific concerns we’ve been looking into include:

• Not enough effective options to deal damage to clustered groups from afar
• Earthgore is too powerful in group vs group battles
• Not enough diversity in Ultimate choice
• Large groups can have players take on specialized utility roles, reducing counter-play options against them

We’re still talking about what exactly we’ll be doing, but once we have a better idea of the direction we’re taking, we’ll include it in one of the next combat updates.

Not sure how much work it would be, but could the grouping system specifically for Cyrodiil be done akin to having squads and platoons? Say for instance a squad is composed of a 4 man group and a platoon is composed of 4 to 6 squads. In the group window it would show the squad you are in as well as the platoon. A platoon would then have between 16 and 24 members in it and would show visibility of those members to each member of the platoon on the map.

You could then place conditions on buffs/heals and AOE damage abilities that some may work for your platoon and some may work for your squad only. These conditions would be placed on squad/platoon type groups only and not be placed on PVE groups at all. Once this grouping system is in place with the potential to alter ability mechanics you can then go in and determine which abilities need conditions upon them to only work in the 4 man squad or, if desired to work in the 16 to 24 man platoon.

This would allow for the larger group sizes per se if that is desired, while still allowing to tune down abilities effects en masse to be limited to only a small portion of that larger group where it seems beneficial to overall gameplay. It may also allow for easier and a more clear way to divide forces for multiple objectives. You could send groups A and B to objective X, group C to objective Y, and groups D, E, & F to objective Z. Everyone knows what group they are in and can easily respond to instructions vs. calling everyone out by name to dispatch them.

All in all it could be a way to enhance and fine tune game play beyond the battle spirit buff.

Ranger209

Draxys wrote: »

PLEASE do not listen to the people complaining about groups taking on specialized support roles. That is a good thing. Nerfing group support roles will only reinforce the already nearly unchallengeable swarms of 40 players. The only way to fight them is with a well composed group of 8-16, WITH support roles.
.

I don't think 8 players should challenge 40, ever.

AddictionX

I would like to see shield stacking changes...

Scoring changes.... both AP and Campaign

The removal of AOE's that FOLLOW you around doing HIGH DAMAGE to enemies while stacking into a ball creating a black hole of cancer.

Why does ESO have AOE's that are NOT ground-based but move with a player?! This is the invitation and the definition of a Ball Group.

BohnT

Arthg wrote: »

I support critical doubts on the changes to gap-closers.

They're unreliable for two reasons:

1) loading screens teleporting us in the middle of nowhere (try one around Nickel for starters)
2) Miat's notifications effectively neutering them.

I would also like to remind you devs and mods of a commitment you made to at least TAKE A STANCE regarding Miat's addon, which has completely modified PC gameplay.

The commitment was formulated here:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4581943/#Comment_4581943

Two months and two combat updates later, could we please have information on whether you'll be doing something at all, and on whether you're still "uncomfortable" with anything?

Considering how deeply this third-party addon affects PvP gameplay on PC, I think an official statement is long overdue.

Many thanks!

They already said that they'll change something about the API next patch affecting Miats

Arthg

BohnT wrote: »

Arthg wrote: »

I support critical doubts on the changes to gap-closers.

They're unreliable for two reasons:

1) loading screens teleporting us in the middle of nowhere (try one around Nickel for starters)
2) Miat's notifications effectively neutering them.

I would also like to remind you devs and mods of a commitment you made to at least TAKE A STANCE regarding Miat's addon, which has completely modified PC gameplay.

The commitment was formulated here:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4581943/#Comment_4581943

Two months and two combat updates later, could we please have information on whether you'll be doing something at all, and on whether you're still "uncomfortable" with anything?

Considering how deeply this third-party addon affects PvP gameplay on PC, I think an official statement is long overdue.

Many thanks!

They already said that they'll change something about the API next patch affecting Miats

I missed that, then.

Have you got a link?

BohnT

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

T4T2FR34K wrote: »

When are you going to do something about Miats?

You'll see something in the next update - it will likely be detailed in the API notes so addon authors can make necessary adjustments before the update is released.

@Arthg

Arthg

Thanks a lot @BohnT, I'd missed that message - I should have used the arrows on the staff's messages

This is great news, I'm looking forward to the changes.

Thanks again!

Neoauspex

I wouldn't mind defile stacking if there was a major/minor debuff to counter shields as well.

GreenSoup2HoT

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone,

Another thing you’ll see when Update 17 goes to the PTS is a reduction in damage for some charge abilities. Decreasing their damage is going to ensure that at-range players who are utilizing movement and terrain to maintain their distance from melee enemies are better rewarded for that tactical advantage.

Last month, we mentioned that we were looking at shortening the Heavy Attack cooldown, but ultimately decided not to go with this change to avoid making too many dramatic changes at once.

We’re also beginning to look at ways to improve group combat in Cyrodiil, particularly when groups of varying sizes fight each other. Some specific concerns we’ve been looking into include:

• Not enough effective options to deal damage to clustered groups from afar
• Earthgore is too powerful in group vs group battles
• Not enough diversity in Ultimate choice
• Large groups can have players take on specialized utility roles, reducing counter-play options against them

We’re still talking about what exactly we’ll be doing, but once we have a better idea of the direction we’re taking, we’ll include it in one of the next combat updates.

Finally, once Update 17 is available on the PTS, you’ll notice that not many class abilities have changed. We’ve instead focused our efforts on the things we previously talked to you about, including:

• Synergy improvements
• Updates to cast time and channeled abilities
• Block cost changes
• Improvements to off-balance and Heavy Attacks

We look forward to having everyone try these changes on the PTS for Update 17. Again, please remember what’s listed here isn’t everything the team is working on. Keep the feedback coming, and thanks for your continued input!

I like how they are finally changing Gap closer damage after i have time and time again mentioned this needed to happen and went ignored. Like i was mentioning this needed to happen before Imperial City was released.

Half of the Monster sets are breaking actual clean combat fyi. Its not just Earthgore thats an issue. Troll King is a massive help to groups also.

Block Cost changes wont change anything. The whole no regen while blocking needs to be scrapped and make blocking for long periods of time scale harder and harder. Block casting shouldn't be a thing. People can weave heavy attacks and potions while being argonion and block forever..... regardless of the changes you make to blocking.

Remove snares where ever possible.

There needs to be some toning down of Maximum stat builds in comparison to Regen builds. Stamina Regen is the most penalised stat in the game and part of the reason i stopped playing this game.



These changes are hardly progress. Its just fluff when its 2 years to late.

ak_pvp

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone,

Another thing you’ll see when Update 17 goes to the PTS is a reduction in damage for some charge abilities. Decreasing their damage is going to ensure that at-range players who are utilizing movement and terrain to maintain their distance from melee enemies are better rewarded for that tactical advantage.

Last month, we mentioned that we were looking at shortening the Heavy Attack cooldown, but ultimately decided not to go with this change to avoid making too many dramatic changes at once.

We’re also beginning to look at ways to improve group combat in Cyrodiil, particularly when groups of varying sizes fight each other. Some specific concerns we’ve been looking into include:

• Not enough effective options to deal damage to clustered groups from afar
• Earthgore is too powerful in group vs group battles
• Not enough diversity in Ultimate choice
• Large groups can have players take on specialized utility roles, reducing counter-play options against them

We’re still talking about what exactly we’ll be doing, but once we have a better idea of the direction we’re taking, we’ll include it in one of the next combat updates.

Finally, once Update 17 is available on the PTS, you’ll notice that not many class abilities have changed. We’ve instead focused our efforts on the things we previously talked to you about, including:

• Synergy improvements
• Updates to cast time and channeled abilities
• Block cost changes
• Improvements to off-balance and Heavy Attacks

We look forward to having everyone try these changes on the PTS for Update 17. Again, please remember what’s listed here isn’t everything the team is working on. Keep the feedback coming, and thanks for your continued input!

I like how they are finally changing Gap closer damage after i have time and time again mentioned this needed to happen and went ignored. Like i was mentioning this needed to happen before Imperial City was released.

Half of the Monster sets are breaking actual clean combat fyi. Its not just Earthgore thats an issue. Troll King is a massive help to groups also.

Block Cost changes wont change anything. The whole no regen while blocking needs to be scrapped and make blocking for long periods of time scale harder and harder. Block casting shouldn't be a thing. People can weave heavy attacks and potions while being argonion and block forever..... regardless of the changes you make to blocking.

Remove snares where ever possible.

There needs to be some toning down of Maximum stat builds in comparison to Regen builds. Stamina Regen is the most penalised stat in the game and part of the reason i stopped playing this game.



These changes are hardly progress. Its just fluff when its 2 years to late.

"Block Cost changes wont change anything. The whole no regen while blocking needs to be scrapped and make blocking for long periods of time scale harder and harder. Block casting shouldn't be a thing. People can weave heavy attacks and potions while being argonion and block forever..... regardless of the changes you make to blocking. "

Weaving heavy attacks =! blocking forever.

And what will DKs/templars do with no blocking? Sit in a hole and die? What will PvE tanks do?