[MATH] PvP Defensive Set Comparison (Impreg, Brass, Pariah, Riposte, + more)

Qbiken

Anyone managed to test if Steadfast Hero procs from Wings, Forward Momentum and Mistform??

Minno

Qbiken wrote: »

Anyone managed to test if Steadfast Hero procs from Wings, Forward Momentum and Mistform??

Someone tested it doesn't work on wings. Very highly likely it doesn't work for others

UltimateBias

@Taylor_MB

You were having an ongoing discussion about the effectiveness of the Combat Physician gear set with @TheDoomsdayMonster . Well he has released a video showcasing how frequently it procs (assuming you have high Spell Crit) and you can gauge for yourself how effective it is in combat.

Basically he is able to make it function as autoshielding every 6 seconds by stacking his HoT's (its the blue bubble that you will regularly see in his battles) and using abilities such as Structured Entropy.


Doomsday (he is known as TheLordofMurder ingame) has 29k Spell Resist and 20k Physical Resist in constant effect, so the Damage Shield is significantly stronger than its 4.1k tooltip would indicate; its about 44% stronger against Spell Damage and about 30% stronger against Physical Damage. This gives the Damage Shield an effective value of 5.9k against Spell and 5.3k against Physical. Of course, that effectiveness is reduced by an opponents Penetration, so its effectiveness does vary from foe to foe.

Anyway, here is the video. Enjoy.

PS, the last sequence which is titled "Outnumbered" showcases Combat Physician best.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQKKvbR4qTM&t=1s

Jimmy_The_Fixer

UltimateBias wrote: »

@Taylor_MB

You were having an ongoing discussion about the effectiveness of the Combat Physician gear set with @TheDoomsdayMonster . Well he has released a video showcasing how frequently it procs (assuming you have high Spell Crit) and you can gauge for yourself how effective it is in combat.

Basically he is able to make it function as autoshielding every 6 seconds by stacking his HoT's (its the blue bubble that you will regularly see in his battles) and using abilities such as Structured Entropy.


Doomsday (he is known as TheLordofMurder ingame) has 29k Spell Resist and 20k Physical Resist in constant effect, so the Damage Shield is significantly stronger than its 4.1k tooltip would indicate; its about 44% stronger against Spell Damage and about 30% stronger against Physical Damage. This gives the Damage Shield an effective value of 5.9k against Spell and 5.3k against Physical. Of course, that effectiveness is reduced by an opponents Penetration, so its effectiveness does vary from foe to foe.

Anyway, here is the video. Enjoy.

PS, the last sequence which is titled "Outnumbered" showcases Combat Physician best.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQKKvbR4qTM&t=1s

This is clearly you on a smurf account, Doom, stop lying and accept your forum ban like a man.

UltimateBias

Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »

UltimateBias wrote: »

@Taylor_MB

You were having an ongoing discussion about the effectiveness of the Combat Physician gear set with @TheDoomsdayMonster . Well he has released a video showcasing how frequently it procs (assuming you have high Spell Crit) and you can gauge for yourself how effective it is in combat.

Basically he is able to make it function as autoshielding every 6 seconds by stacking his HoT's (its the blue bubble that you will regularly see in his battles) and using abilities such as Structured Entropy.


Doomsday (he is known as TheLordofMurder ingame) has 29k Spell Resist and 20k Physical Resist in constant effect, so the Damage Shield is significantly stronger than its 4.1k tooltip would indicate; its about 44% stronger against Spell Damage and about 30% stronger against Physical Damage. This gives the Damage Shield an effective value of 5.9k against Spell and 5.3k against Physical. Of course, that effectiveness is reduced by an opponents Penetration, so its effectiveness does vary from foe to foe.

Anyway, here is the video. Enjoy.

PS, the last sequence which is titled "Outnumbered" showcases Combat Physician best.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQKKvbR4qTM&t=1s

This is clearly you on a smurf account, Doom, stop lying and accept your forum ban like a man.

Are you stalking me?

Is there a way I can put you on ignore?

Koensol

Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »

UltimateBias wrote: »

@Taylor_MB

You were having an ongoing discussion about the effectiveness of the Combat Physician gear set with @TheDoomsdayMonster . Well he has released a video showcasing how frequently it procs (assuming you have high Spell Crit) and you can gauge for yourself how effective it is in combat.

Basically he is able to make it function as autoshielding every 6 seconds by stacking his HoT's (its the blue bubble that you will regularly see in his battles) and using abilities such as Structured Entropy.


Doomsday (he is known as TheLordofMurder ingame) has 29k Spell Resist and 20k Physical Resist in constant effect, so the Damage Shield is significantly stronger than its 4.1k tooltip would indicate; its about 44% stronger against Spell Damage and about 30% stronger against Physical Damage. This gives the Damage Shield an effective value of 5.9k against Spell and 5.3k against Physical. Of course, that effectiveness is reduced by an opponents Penetration, so its effectiveness does vary from foe to foe.

Anyway, here is the video. Enjoy.

PS, the last sequence which is titled "Outnumbered" showcases Combat Physician best.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQKKvbR4qTM&t=1s

This is clearly you on a smurf account, Doom, stop lying and accept your forum ban like a man.

Looking through his post history, yea it's definately him lmao. Some people will never give up I suppose.

Taylor_MB

UltimateBias wrote: »

@Taylor_MB

You were having an ongoing discussion about the effectiveness of the Combat Physician gear set with @TheDoomsdayMonster . Well he has released a video showcasing how frequently it procs (assuming you have high Spell Crit) and you can gauge for yourself how effective it is in combat.

Basically he is able to make it function as autoshielding every 6 seconds by stacking his HoT's (its the blue bubble that you will regularly see in his battles) and using abilities such as Structured Entropy.


Doomsday (he is known as TheLordofMurder ingame) has 29k Spell Resist and 20k Physical Resist in constant effect, so the Damage Shield is significantly stronger than its 4.1k tooltip would indicate; its about 44% stronger against Spell Damage and about 30% stronger against Physical Damage. This gives the Damage Shield an effective value of 5.9k against Spell and 5.3k against Physical. Of course, that effectiveness is reduced by an opponents Penetration, so its effectiveness does vary from foe to foe.

Anyway, here is the video. Enjoy.

PS, the last sequence which is titled "Outnumbered" showcases Combat Physician best.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQKKvbR4qTM&t=1s

I can't believe I wasted my time watching that D-level PvP. I actually thought, given your feverish conviction that Combat Physician is good, you'd actually have some decent clips to share.

1) Survivability does not mean mist forming away to zero magicka with only a single person chasing you.
2) Outnumbered is 1vX, not fighting 3 1v1's. All that demonstrates is you have enough regeneration, nothing else.
3) Your skill choice is bizarre-
- I get you are probably wearing Chudan, so no Channeled Focus, but you can't keep up that level of Mist Forming without it.
- Double slotting Magelight is... an interesting choice. You may as well slot Vampire's Bane / Reflective Light and open up another skill slot (for Channeled Focus, for example, and then slot 1pc Domihaus and 1pc Chudan, for example).

Just...wow. I actually expected way better gameplay then that, even considering the odd set choice.

I'm sorry.

UltimateBias

Taylor_MB wrote: »

UltimateBias wrote: »

@Taylor_MB

You were having an ongoing discussion about the effectiveness of the Combat Physician gear set with @TheDoomsdayMonster . Well he has released a video showcasing how frequently it procs (assuming you have high Spell Crit) and you can gauge for yourself how effective it is in combat.

Basically he is able to make it function as autoshielding every 6 seconds by stacking his HoT's (its the blue bubble that you will regularly see in his battles) and using abilities such as Structured Entropy.


Doomsday (he is known as TheLordofMurder ingame) has 29k Spell Resist and 20k Physical Resist in constant effect, so the Damage Shield is significantly stronger than its 4.1k tooltip would indicate; its about 44% stronger against Spell Damage and about 30% stronger against Physical Damage. This gives the Damage Shield an effective value of 5.9k against Spell and 5.3k against Physical. Of course, that effectiveness is reduced by an opponents Penetration, so its effectiveness does vary from foe to foe.

Anyway, here is the video. Enjoy.

PS, the last sequence which is titled "Outnumbered" showcases Combat Physician best.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQKKvbR4qTM&t=1s

I can't believe I wasted my time watching that D-level PvP. I actually thought, given your feverish conviction that Combat Physician is good, you'd actually have some decent clips to share.

1) Survivability does not mean mist forming away to zero magicka with only a single person chasing you.
2) Outnumbered is 1vX, not fighting 3 1v1's. All that demonstrates is you have enough regeneration, nothing else.
3) Your skill choice is bizarre-
- I get you are probably wearing Chudan, so no Channeled Focus, but you can't keep up that level of Mist Forming without it.
- Double slotting Magelight is... an interesting choice. You may as well slot Vampire's Bane / Reflective Light and open up another skill slot (for Channeled Focus, for example, and then slot 1pc Domihaus and 1pc Chudan, for example).

Just...wow. I actually expected way better gameplay then that, even considering the odd set choice.

I'm sorry.

Well, the point was just to focus on the mitigation of Combat Physician, but that's ok.

I guess I shouldn't have bothered; I'll post here no further.

Taylor_MB

Steadfast Hero
• Now added.
• Stat wise it's identical to Ironblood, except with higher cooldown but no negative effect (snare).
• Potential max mitigation puts this set squarely into the top tier of defensive sets.
• Can be back barred.
+ everything else we've already discussed.

Jeezye

Can anyone share his experience of running pariah + blackrose resto? I'll soon return to eso and this really struck me first when reading damage shields get resistances and the major vitality bonus of healing ward. I mean - the synergy is just too good on paper. have insanely strong shields + major vitality when low hp should make you almost immortal.

Also, something I tried out and really liked is combining jorvulds with pirate skeleton - guarantees 100% major protection uptime + decent resistances makes it really hard to withle you down.

Both setups were intended for my (sap)tank blade

Brutusmax1mus

Jeezye wrote: »

Can anyone share his experience of running pariah + blackrose resto? I'll soon return to eso and this really struck me first when reading damage shields get resistances and the major vitality bonus of healing ward. I mean - the synergy is just too good on paper. have insanely strong shields + major vitality when low hp should make you almost immortal.

Also, something I tried out and really liked is combining jorvulds with pirate skeleton - guarantees 100% major protection uptime + decent resistances makes it really hard to withle you down.

Both setups were intended for my (sap)tank blade

BR resto is absolutely overpowering on hot based healing for duos. Mag warden using this in conjunction with rapid regen, vines, and trellis keeps you two on offense the whole fight.

Jeezye

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

Can anyone share his experience of running pariah + blackrose resto? I'll soon return to eso and this really struck me first when reading damage shields get resistances and the major vitality bonus of healing ward. I mean - the synergy is just too good on paper. have insanely strong shields + major vitality when low hp should make you almost immortal.

Also, something I tried out and really liked is combining jorvulds with pirate skeleton - guarantees 100% major protection uptime + decent resistances makes it really hard to withle you down.

Both setups were intended for my (sap)tank blade

BR resto is absolutely overpowering on hot based healing for duos. Mag warden using this in conjunction with rapid regen, vines, and trellis keeps you two on offense the whole fight.

wait what, do you mean BR resto provides major vitality for you AND your buddy if you choose to run the other morph with two shields?

Brutusmax1mus

Jeezye wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

Can anyone share his experience of running pariah + blackrose resto? I'll soon return to eso and this really struck me first when reading damage shields get resistances and the major vitality bonus of healing ward. I mean - the synergy is just too good on paper. have insanely strong shields + major vitality when low hp should make you almost immortal.

Also, something I tried out and really liked is combining jorvulds with pirate skeleton - guarantees 100% major protection uptime + decent resistances makes it really hard to withle you down.

Both setups were intended for my (sap)tank blade

BR resto is absolutely overpowering on hot based healing for duos. Mag warden using this in conjunction with rapid regen, vines, and trellis keeps you two on offense the whole fight.

wait what, do you mean BR resto provides major vitality for you AND your buddy if you choose to run the other morph with two shields?

Yes

Jeezye

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

Can anyone share his experience of running pariah + blackrose resto? I'll soon return to eso and this really struck me first when reading damage shields get resistances and the major vitality bonus of healing ward. I mean - the synergy is just too good on paper. have insanely strong shields + major vitality when low hp should make you almost immortal.

Also, something I tried out and really liked is combining jorvulds with pirate skeleton - guarantees 100% major protection uptime + decent resistances makes it really hard to withle you down.

Both setups were intended for my (sap)tank blade

BR resto is absolutely overpowering on hot based healing for duos. Mag warden using this in conjunction with rapid regen, vines, and trellis keeps you two on offense the whole fight.

wait what, do you mean BR resto provides major vitality for you AND your buddy if you choose to run the other morph with two shields?

Yes

holy, I need to start watching guides for BR prison. Combining this with jorvulds must be insane.

paulsimonps

Jeezye wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

Can anyone share his experience of running pariah + blackrose resto? I'll soon return to eso and this really struck me first when reading damage shields get resistances and the major vitality bonus of healing ward. I mean - the synergy is just too good on paper. have insanely strong shields + major vitality when low hp should make you almost immortal.

Also, something I tried out and really liked is combining jorvulds with pirate skeleton - guarantees 100% major protection uptime + decent resistances makes it really hard to withle you down.

Both setups were intended for my (sap)tank blade

BR resto is absolutely overpowering on hot based healing for duos. Mag warden using this in conjunction with rapid regen, vines, and trellis keeps you two on offense the whole fight.

wait what, do you mean BR resto provides major vitality for you AND your buddy if you choose to run the other morph with two shields?

Yes

holy, I need to start watching guides for BR prison. Combining this with jorvulds must be insane.

add some guard on top of that and got yourself a nice combo.

kaithuzar

paulsimonps wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

Can anyone share his experience of running pariah + blackrose resto? I'll soon return to eso and this really struck me first when reading damage shields get resistances and the major vitality bonus of healing ward. I mean - the synergy is just too good on paper. have insanely strong shields + major vitality when low hp should make you almost immortal.

Also, something I tried out and really liked is combining jorvulds with pirate skeleton - guarantees 100% major protection uptime + decent resistances makes it really hard to withle you down.

Both setups were intended for my (sap)tank blade

BR resto is absolutely overpowering on hot based healing for duos. Mag warden using this in conjunction with rapid regen, vines, and trellis keeps you two on offense the whole fight.

wait what, do you mean BR resto provides major vitality for you AND your buddy if you choose to run the other morph with two shields?

Yes

holy, I need to start watching guides for BR prison. Combining this with jorvulds must be insane.

add some guard on top of that and got yourself a nice combo.

Sounds like a cancerous combo, has anyone fought against this in Cyrodiil?

Baconlad

Damn zos *** up my old build...
Skoria, riposte and desert rose and willpower swords. Rose has to be front barred...and now so does riposte. Garbage!

Oh well good thing I don't play sweeplar anymore...

Taylor_MB

@Baconlad
Yeah, it's shame they nerfed Wizard's Riposte (I used it on 3 toons), but it was OP you could back bar a defensive set with the full benefits easily carried over to front bar.

Baconlad

Well yeah...there are a few others you can do that with. Guess I could reroll the playstyle and go transmutation and a damage set...or trans and riposte.

Been running a glass ranged magplar and a medium stamplar since summerset... guest it's time to go back...getting bored again

Minno

Do we have the math on the uptime of Templar minor protection? Is it like 50% uptime and do we use the 26.666% but divide that in half to see minor protection uptime on the spreadsheet?

Wanted to see how that passive works out now that we no longer have 100% uptime.

paulsimonps

Minno wrote: »

Do we have the math on the uptime of Templar minor protection? Is it like 50% uptime and do we use the 26.666% but divide that in half to see minor protection uptime on the spreadsheet?

Wanted to see how that passive works out now that we no longer have 100% uptime.

It's 3 seconds duration on aedric spear ability use, right? so technically it's possible to have a 100% uptime if timed mpossibly perfect. But something like a jab spammer could most likely have a 90%+ uptime, for everyone else it just matters how often you want to cast or I'd you are trying to time it. But this is just me typing while on my way home, got no data at all just educated guess.

Minno

paulsimonps wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Do we have the math on the uptime of Templar minor protection? Is it like 50% uptime and do we use the 26.666% but divide that in half to see minor protection uptime on the spreadsheet?

Wanted to see how that passive works out now that we no longer have 100% uptime.

It's 3 seconds duration on aedric spear ability use, right? so technically it's possible to have a 100% uptime if timed mpossibly perfect. But something like a jab spammer could most likely have a 90%+ uptime, for everyone else it just matters how often you want to cast or I'd you are trying to time it. But this is just me typing while on my way home, got no data at all just educated guess.

Yea wanted to see everyone's uptimes in combat (dont have combat metrics installed to see uptimes on buffs). 100% is possible, but it requires sharting using just jabs. My guess it's 50-60% uptime, since our main burst is cycling around the 6 second mark. Rending+POTL+jav+jabs means 5 seconds before hitting jabs again? Same for magplar, except UC/TD and vamps bane for rending.

Taylor_MB

@Minno
I'll add it to my list of queued updates (behind Major Evasion change).

Gaming is more fun than spread sheeting XD

Minno

Taylor_MB wrote: »

@Minno
I'll add it to my list of queued updates (behind Major Evasion change).

Gaming is more fun than spread sheeting XD

haha thanks!

In the meantime, what's the uptime?!?! Guess I will need to add combat metrics and fight a mammoth or something for 5 minutes lol.

ExistingRug61

First, great thread.

Secondly, regarding Wizards Riposte/Minor Maim and its diminishing returns in CP:

I suspect it is likely that the reason this is diminishing is because it is additive with the attackers damage bonus (but negative) so has a lesser effect the more damage bonuses the attacker has (ie from CP).

@TaylorMB looking at your tests in the "My Workings" sheet it looks like you were on the same track but I have tried slightly different formulas. I made all offensive bonuses additive and included Minor Maim as a negative here, all defensive bonuses multiplicative, as follows:

For calculated damage you have:
BaseDamage*(1+Mighty-Hardy)*(1+MasterAtArms-IronClad)*(1-ExpertDefender)
Whereas I used:
BaseDamage*(1+Mighty+MasterAtArms)*(1-Hardy)*(1-IronClad)*(1-ExpertDefender)

Likewise for WR calculated damage you have:
BaseDamage*(1+Mighty+MasterAtArms-0.15)*(1-Hardy-IronClad-ExpertDefender)
Whereas I used:
BaseDamage*(1+Mighty+MasterAtArms-0.15)*(1-Hardy)*(1-IronClad)*(1-ExpertDefender)

This seems to give fairly close results to your test damage numbers (apart from column K for some reason, observed damage value here seems off?) and also very close for the observed reduction percentage due to Wizards Riposte.
(I haven't actually done any testing myself, this is just what I can see looking at your test numbers)

One implication of this is that if Maim interacts like this (additively) with other damage bonuses your opponent has (such as Minor and Major Berserk, swords passive damage bonus) then it will also be providing less than 15% reduction in these cases as well (even in noCP). Would need testing.

Lloydmp

@Taylor_MB

Loved this thread, I have a few questions regarding some of the new set changes.
Cryodiil’s light, robes of the swift and wizards.

I’m trying out combinations of these sets to get as much mitigation in light Armor as possible. What in your option would have the greatest uptime in melee ranged combat. (Magplar).

Thanks in advance.

Iskiab

Yea, the thread needs to be updated. There are better choices now.

Even though it’s a thread about dueling mitigation choices I think some people erroneously believe this carries over into all pvp. For example people talk about how wizard’s repost is great but there are lots of sources of minor maim without the set.

Xvorg

Swift looks quite tasty if you combine it with Armor master and annullement, stronk shields

Minno

Iskiab wrote: »

Yea, the thread needs to be updated. There are better choices now.

Even though it’s a thread about dueling mitigation choices I think some people erroneously believe this carries over into all pvp. For example people talk about how wizard’s repost is great but there are lots of sources of minor maim without the set.

the first few pages talks about that lol.

ChefZero

Lloydmp wrote: »

@Taylor_MB

Loved this thread, I have a few questions regarding some of the new set changes.
Cryodiil’s light, robes of the swift and wizards.

I’m trying out combinations of these sets to get as much mitigation in light Armor as possible. What in your option would have the greatest uptime in melee ranged combat. (Magplar).

Thanks in advance.

Buffer + Pariah no discussion.

But you could also slot buffer and transmutation on one bar, so you could use willpower or an arena weapon.