[MATH] PvP Defensive Set Comparison (Impreg, Brass, Pariah, Riposte, + more)

Iskiab

Buffer and pariah would be good if you’re interested in being a tank, but your damage and sustain would suffer.

Exodium

UltimateBias wrote: »

@Taylor_MB

You were having an ongoing discussion about the effectiveness of the Combat Physician gear set with @TheDoomsdayMonster . Well he has released a video showcasing how frequently it procs (assuming you have high Spell Crit) and you can gauge for yourself how effective it is in combat.

Basically he is able to make it function as autoshielding every 6 seconds by stacking his HoT's (its the blue bubble that you will regularly see in his battles) and using abilities such as Structured Entropy.


Doomsday (he is known as TheLordofMurder ingame) has 29k Spell Resist and 20k Physical Resist in constant effect, so the Damage Shield is significantly stronger than its 4.1k tooltip would indicate; its about 44% stronger against Spell Damage and about 30% stronger against Physical Damage. This gives the Damage Shield an effective value of 5.9k against Spell and 5.3k against Physical. Of course, that effectiveness is reduced by an opponents Penetration, so its effectiveness does vary from foe to foe.

Anyway, here is the video. Enjoy.

PS, the last sequence which is titled "Outnumbered" showcases Combat Physician best.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQKKvbR4qTM&t=1s

LMAO you're LordOfMurder the DC zergling that always runs in 24man allmadden/jigsawman groups?

If you had even a grain of credibility, which you probably didn't to begin with, you've now completely lost it.

Jimmy_The_Fixer

@Exodium
It’s probably not necessary to bring up tired old drama from months ago. Wouldn’t want to derail the discussion away from defensive set theorycrafting.

Minno

Lloydmp wrote: »

@Taylor_MB

Loved this thread, I have a few questions regarding some of the new set changes.
Cryodiil’s light, robes of the swift and wizards.

I’m trying out combinations of these sets to get as much mitigation in light Armor as possible. What in your option would have the greatest uptime in melee ranged combat. (Magplar).

Thanks in advance.

Cyro light basically has the same mitigation as wizard. It just requires cast time/channels. So your uptime is as good as the abilities you want to use.

Swift is like steadfast hero except you don't have 25% DMG reduction, you only have 10%. You can assume it's about 3-6% less on the chart.

Wizard was answered a couple of pages ago. It's less powerful but only because it was possible to backbar the set. Now you have to use 5pc on the body or on both weapons. The uptime is better in solo/small scale; large scale it will hardly proc. And if you already havea consistent minor maim, don't bother with it.

Iskiab

Minno wrote: »

Lloydmp wrote: »

@Taylor_MB

Loved this thread, I have a few questions regarding some of the new set changes.
Cryodiil’s light, robes of the swift and wizards.

I’m trying out combinations of these sets to get as much mitigation in light Armor as possible. What in your option would have the greatest uptime in melee ranged combat. (Magplar).

Thanks in advance.

Cyro light basically has the same mitigation as wizard. It just requires cast time/channels. So your uptime is as good as the abilities you want to use.

Swift is like steadfast hero except you don't have 25% DMG reduction, you only have 10%. You can assume it's about 3-6% less on the chart.

Wizard was answered a couple of pages ago. It's less powerful but only because it was possible to backbar the set. Now you have to use 5pc on the body or on both weapons. The uptime is better in solo/small scale; large scale it will hardly proc. And if you already havea consistent minor maim, don't bother with it.

What? Some things I’m not sure have been answered already.

Steadfast hero looks like it would have far more mitigation than wizards repost. All Wizard’s repost gives is minor main vs major protection, plus steadfast hero provides resistances.

Buffer of the swift’s 10 percent less player damage is not a named buff. Meaning since many ultimates provide major protection you wouldn’t be gaining any additional mitigation from steadfast but would from buffer.

One thing I’ve always wondered about wizard’s repost, does it apply minor maim before or after taking critical damage? Either way I don’t think it’s a good set, in most in game scenarios you’ll need to be hit 4x on average before it will proc.

Minno

Iskiab wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Lloydmp wrote: »

@Taylor_MB

Loved this thread, I have a few questions regarding some of the new set changes.
Cryodiil’s light, robes of the swift and wizards.

I’m trying out combinations of these sets to get as much mitigation in light Armor as possible. What in your option would have the greatest uptime in melee ranged combat. (Magplar).

Thanks in advance.

Cyro light basically has the same mitigation as wizard. It just requires cast time/channels. So your uptime is as good as the abilities you want to use.

Swift is like steadfast hero except you don't have 25% DMG reduction, you only have 10%. You can assume it's about 3-6% less on the chart.

Wizard was answered a couple of pages ago. It's less powerful but only because it was possible to backbar the set. Now you have to use 5pc on the body or on both weapons. The uptime is better in solo/small scale; large scale it will hardly proc. And if you already havea consistent minor maim, don't bother with it.

What? Some things I’m not sure have been answered already.

Steadfast hero looks like it would have far more mitigation than wizards repost. All Wizard’s repost gives is minor main vs major protection, plus steadfast hero provides resistances.

Buffer of the swift’s 10 percent less player damage is not a named buff. Meaning since many ultimates provide major protection you wouldn’t be gaining any additional mitigation from steadfast but would from buffer.

One thing I’ve always wondered about wizard’s repost, does it apply minor maim before or after taking critical damage? Either way I don’t think it’s a good set, in most in game scenarios you’ll need to be hit 4x on average before it will proc.

Crit applies before mitigation, FYI. That's why crit resists alone can't save you from high DMG burst and why resist stacking won't save you from crits either. You need both.

Minor maim applies like other DMG Mitigation.

Going from Swift to major protection, might bea waste pending how much you get major protection uptime.

Iskiab

Minno wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Lloydmp wrote: »

@Taylor_MB

Loved this thread, I have a few questions regarding some of the new set changes.
Cryodiil’s light, robes of the swift and wizards.

I’m trying out combinations of these sets to get as much mitigation in light Armor as possible. What in your option would have the greatest uptime in melee ranged combat. (Magplar).

Thanks in advance.

Cyro light basically has the same mitigation as wizard. It just requires cast time/channels. So your uptime is as good as the abilities you want to use.

Swift is like steadfast hero except you don't have 25% DMG reduction, you only have 10%. You can assume it's about 3-6% less on the chart.

Wizard was answered a couple of pages ago. It's less powerful but only because it was possible to backbar the set. Now you have to use 5pc on the body or on both weapons. The uptime is better in solo/small scale; large scale it will hardly proc. And if you already havea consistent minor maim, don't bother with it.

What? Some things I’m not sure have been answered already.

Steadfast hero looks like it would have far more mitigation than wizards repost. All Wizard’s repost gives is minor main vs major protection, plus steadfast hero provides resistances.

Buffer of the swift’s 10 percent less player damage is not a named buff. Meaning since many ultimates provide major protection you wouldn’t be gaining any additional mitigation from steadfast but would from buffer.

One thing I’ve always wondered about wizard’s repost, does it apply minor maim before or after taking critical damage? Either way I don’t think it’s a good set, in most in game scenarios you’ll need to be hit 4x on average before it will proc.

Crit applies before mitigation, FYI. That's why crit resists alone can't save you from high DMG burst and why resist stacking won't save you from crits either. You need both.

Minor maim applies like other DMG Mitigation.

Going from Swift to major protection, might bea waste pending how much you get major protection uptime.

About wizard’s repost, I meant it says you apply minor maim to opponents when you take crit damage. So when you take your first crit does it factor in minor maim on that first crit or no?

I think most pvp builds sit at around 30 percent crit. That means on average you’d be crit on the 4th hit you take (excluding bleeds and such that don’t crit). If the minor maim applies on the 4th hit to proc then on average you won’t apply minor maim until your opponent’s 5th attack? If so that’s near the end of a burst combo including light attacks, depending on if the person uses dots.

Minno

Iskiab wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Lloydmp wrote: »

@Taylor_MB

Loved this thread, I have a few questions regarding some of the new set changes.
Cryodiil’s light, robes of the swift and wizards.

I’m trying out combinations of these sets to get as much mitigation in light Armor as possible. What in your option would have the greatest uptime in melee ranged combat. (Magplar).

Thanks in advance.

Cyro light basically has the same mitigation as wizard. It just requires cast time/channels. So your uptime is as good as the abilities you want to use.

Swift is like steadfast hero except you don't have 25% DMG reduction, you only have 10%. You can assume it's about 3-6% less on the chart.

Wizard was answered a couple of pages ago. It's less powerful but only because it was possible to backbar the set. Now you have to use 5pc on the body or on both weapons. The uptime is better in solo/small scale; large scale it will hardly proc. And if you already havea consistent minor maim, don't bother with it.

What? Some things I’m not sure have been answered already.

Steadfast hero looks like it would have far more mitigation than wizards repost. All Wizard’s repost gives is minor main vs major protection, plus steadfast hero provides resistances.

Buffer of the swift’s 10 percent less player damage is not a named buff. Meaning since many ultimates provide major protection you wouldn’t be gaining any additional mitigation from steadfast but would from buffer.

One thing I’ve always wondered about wizard’s repost, does it apply minor maim before or after taking critical damage? Either way I don’t think it’s a good set, in most in game scenarios you’ll need to be hit 4x on average before it will proc.

Crit applies before mitigation, FYI. That's why crit resists alone can't save you from high DMG burst and why resist stacking won't save you from crits either. You need both.

Minor maim applies like other DMG Mitigation.

Going from Swift to major protection, might bea waste pending how much you get major protection uptime.

About wizard’s repost, I meant it says you apply minor maim to opponents when you take crit damage. So when you take your first crit does it factor in minor maim on that first crit or no?

I think most pvp builds sit at around 30 percent crit. That means on average you’d be crit on the 4th hit you take (excluding bleeds and such that don’t crit). If the minor maim applies on the 4th hit to proc then on average you won’t apply minor maim until your opponent’s 5th attack? If so that’s near the end of a burst combo including light attacks, depending on if the person uses dots.

Well most heavy armor is 30-35% but most light/medium are 40-50%. And it includes everything direct; light attack, direct sources, etc. If you are being focused by a bunch, it doesn't care who procs it, because it has no cooldown so solo play will have the mostuptime.

And yes it doesn't include the first attack, but most people fire off light attacks in between main attacks so it's probably not worth to figureout the optimal situation when it's going toproc + remain for 4 seconds. If you after expecting malubeth-reactive cheesplar mitigation, wizard is not the set for you lol. But it gives you health, Regen andmax mag with 15% DMG Mitigation that can apply on ALOT of targets without using your own GCDs; something not to dismiss either!

kaithuzar

Did anyone ever compare what the 10% damage reduction from players “roughly” looked like in terms of dmg mitigation equivalent for resistance?
I know it doesn’t have an exact & it’s comparing apples to oranges I’m just looking for an approximation.
Heartland, valiant, & I think there’s at least 1 other set.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

kaithuzar wrote: »

Did anyone ever compare what the 10% damage reduction from players “roughly” looked like in terms of dmg mitigation equivalent for resistance?
I know it doesn’t have an exact & it’s comparing apples to oranges I’m just looking for an approximation.
Heartland, valiant, & I think there’s at least 1 other set.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5806423

kaithuzar

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

Did anyone ever compare what the 10% damage reduction from players “roughly” looked like in terms of dmg mitigation equivalent for resistance?
I know it doesn’t have an exact & it’s comparing apples to oranges I’m just looking for an approximation.
Heartland, valiant, & I think there’s at least 1 other set.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5806423

Thanks, now I wonder how it compares to the sets mentioned in this thread lol
I’ll look at it more in the morning

Iskiab

kaithuzar wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

Did anyone ever compare what the 10% damage reduction from players “roughly” looked like in terms of dmg mitigation equivalent for resistance?
I know it doesn’t have an exact & it’s comparing apples to oranges I’m just looking for an approximation.
Heartland, valiant, & I think there’s at least 1 other set.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5806423

Thanks, now I wonder how it compares to the sets mentioned in this thread lol
I’ll look at it more in the morning

Reductions in player damage take effect after resistances. So basicly with Buffer of the Swift if your resistances reduce damage taken by 20%, 10% of the remaining damage will be mitigated for 28% total mitigation. The break even point is if you have less than 14k resists left after the enemy's penetration then buffer of the swift is better than light fortified brass.

With how popular penetration is, I'd say Buffer of the Swift is flat out better than light fortified brass, especially since it reduces bleed damage.

Minno

Iskiab wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

Did anyone ever compare what the 10% damage reduction from players “roughly” looked like in terms of dmg mitigation equivalent for resistance?
I know it doesn’t have an exact & it’s comparing apples to oranges I’m just looking for an approximation.
Heartland, valiant, & I think there’s at least 1 other set.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5806423

Thanks, now I wonder how it compares to the sets mentioned in this thread lol
I’ll look at it more in the morning

Reductions in player damage take effect after resistances. So basicly with Buffer of the Swift if your resistances reduce damage taken by 20%, 10% of the remaining damage will be mitigated for 28% total mitigation. The break even point is if you have less than 14k resists left after the enemy's penetration then buffer of the swift is better than light fortified brass.

With how popular penetration is, I'd say Buffer of the Swift is flat out better than light fortified brass, especially since it reduces bleed damage.

I agree with that statement. Fort brass was deemed bad in this thread though. At least buffer gives health magand ability to reduce bleeds.

Xvorg

Minno wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

Did anyone ever compare what the 10% damage reduction from players “roughly” looked like in terms of dmg mitigation equivalent for resistance?
I know it doesn’t have an exact & it’s comparing apples to oranges I’m just looking for an approximation.
Heartland, valiant, & I think there’s at least 1 other set.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5806423

Thanks, now I wonder how it compares to the sets mentioned in this thread lol
I’ll look at it more in the morning

Reductions in player damage take effect after resistances. So basicly with Buffer of the Swift if your resistances reduce damage taken by 20%, 10% of the remaining damage will be mitigated for 28% total mitigation. The break even point is if you have less than 14k resists left after the enemy's penetration then buffer of the swift is better than light fortified brass.

With how popular penetration is, I'd say Buffer of the Swift is flat out better than light fortified brass, especially since it reduces bleed damage.

I agree with that statement. Fort brass was deemed bad in this thread though. At least buffer gives health and ability to reduce bleeds.

And can be paired with minor protection buffs. In fact, Buffer + Vampire's armor gives you a lot of mitigation, and depending on if you go LA or HA you can have a very strong shield or a very tanky set up.

Then you have to work your resources or your dmg.

Iskiab

Minno wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

Did anyone ever compare what the 10% damage reduction from players “roughly” looked like in terms of dmg mitigation equivalent for resistance?
I know it doesn’t have an exact & it’s comparing apples to oranges I’m just looking for an approximation.
Heartland, valiant, & I think there’s at least 1 other set.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5806423

Thanks, now I wonder how it compares to the sets mentioned in this thread lol
I’ll look at it more in the morning

Reductions in player damage take effect after resistances. So basicly with Buffer of the Swift if your resistances reduce damage taken by 20%, 10% of the remaining damage will be mitigated for 28% total mitigation. The break even point is if you have less than 14k resists left after the enemy's penetration then buffer of the swift is better than light fortified brass.

With how popular penetration is, I'd say Buffer of the Swift is flat out better than light fortified brass, especially since it reduces bleed damage.

I agree with that statement. Fort brass was deemed bad in this thread though. At least buffer gives health magand ability to reduce bleeds.

It is? Maybe it’s different for me because I only play non-CP? I found fortified brass >>> wizard’s repost from trying them both.

I also play a pvp healer so eating ultimates non-stop is part of the job description. Mitigation is my primary concern so have tried lots of defensive sets.

Health or magicka didn’t make much of a difference on the set bonus for me. I ended up going with buffer 5L-1M-1H, Breton, 1 protective, 1 triune and one healthy trait. I ended up switching a magicka trait to healthy to compensate for lower health.

Jeezye

Iskiab wrote: »

I ended up switching a magicka trait to healthy to compensate for lower health.

I never understood why people bother so much with trait and glyph trading. I mean you have attribute points that are literally made to fine tune your statpools and its so much easier to just replace some from magicka to health. why bother all the transmuting and stuff

CatchMeTrolling

Jeezye wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

I ended up switching a magicka trait to healthy to compensate for lower health.

I never understood why people bother so much with trait and glyph trading. I mean you have attribute points that are literally made to fine tune your statpools and its so much easier to just replace some from magicka to health. why bother all the transmuting and stuff

How long have you been playing the game ?

Iskiab

Jeezye wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

I ended up switching a magicka trait to healthy to compensate for lower health.

I never understood why people bother so much with trait and glyph trading. I mean you have attribute points that are literally made to fine tune your statpools and its so much easier to just replace some from magicka to health. why bother all the transmuting and stuff

Because as a Magblade I pvp heal (non-CP only), pve heal, pve dps ... and used to pvp dps as well. Switching gear is easy, switching attribute points is not.

Only skill I need to remorph is refreshing/twisting path to change roles. For healing I leave everything as dps CPs unless I’m healing a vet trial. I also need to change mundus stones.

Doing it this way costs me maybe 2k gold for changing the morph and the mundus is free. I rarely dps pve though (wait times are horrible) and haven’t been doing trials since getting BiS gear.

A lot easier than changing attribute points.

Plus light armour doesn’t provide enough resistances, so pvp healing requires 1-2 protective traits for survivability (I found 0 works as a Nord, 1 for Breton, 2 for everyone else). That’s even after wearing a good defensive set like buffer of the swift. Most templars wear heavy, or light and block cast with sword and board, because they need to be even tankier than a NB because they don’t have cloak.

exeeter702

Jeezye wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

I ended up switching a magicka trait to healthy to compensate for lower health.

I never understood why people bother so much with trait and glyph trading. I mean you have attribute points that are literally made to fine tune your statpools and its so much easier to just replace some from magicka to health. why bother all the transmuting and stuff

Gear is permanent and swappable. Most people are flooded with transmutation geodes they cant open and enough enchanting mats to make glyphs for an entire server.

Attributes are not a 1 size fits all thing. Most builds outside of pvp have little need to put points into health other than a tank and even that is 50/50. And when attribute allocation costs 12k and requires a shrine, the choice is clear.

Syiccal

Does anyone know how buffer of the swift compares against other sets on a magplar

Iskiab

Syiccal wrote: »

Does anyone know how buffer of the swift compares against other sets on a magplar

Never tried it on a magplar, sorry.

Magplars look like they’ve had game changes specifically designed around helping them out, so I’d take advantage. I think cyrodiil’s light (the one where it’s less damage while channeling) and altmer is the way to go.

Buffer’s good except the 3-4 set bonus’ for only physical or spell resistances. It isn’t horrible but there are more efficient ways to get resistances like nord, protective traits on jewellery, Breton, or using a crafted set and making chest heavy, legs med and the rest light.

Xvorg

Syiccal wrote: »

Does anyone know how buffer of the swift compares against other sets on a magplar

I haven't triend yet, but seems a good one considering Magplar gets minor protection on their spammable and super strong resistance on rune

In fact, it's so good I'd even use it on a stamplar

kaithuzar

Iskiab wrote: »

Syiccal wrote: »

Does anyone know how buffer of the swift compares against other sets on a magplar

Never tried it on a magplar, sorry.

Magplars look like they’ve had game changes specifically designed around helping them out, so I’d take advantage. I think cyrodiil’s light (the one where it’s less damage while channeling) and altmer is the way to go.

Buffer’s good except the 3-4 set bonus’ for only physical or spell resistances. It isn’t horrible but there are more efficient ways to get resistances like nord, protective traits on jewellery, Breton, or using a crafted set and making chest heavy, legs med and the rest light.

Altmer (high elf), Cyrodiil’s light + has anyone tried soul shine on their magplar lately?
And do the psijic buffs/passives of “while casting or channeling” also trigger/proc those sets?
It appears magplar is in a great place.

Minno

Just tried Swift. If i had to rank the sets defensively:
1) pirate Skeleton
2) steadfast hero
3) buffer of the Swift
4) tie (trans, impreg, wizard)
5) tie (3x protective, chudan/pirate, bloodspawn, pariah, armor master)
6) tie (Templar minor protection, vamp set, heartland).

Syiccal

Minno wrote: »

Just tried Swift. If i had to rank the sets defensively:
1) pirate Skeleton
2) steadfast hero
3) buffer of the Swift
4) tie (trans, impreg, wizard)
5) tie (3x protective, chudan/pirate, bloodspawn, pariah, armor master)
6) tie (Templar minor protection, vamp set, heartland).

How would you rank cyrodills lights

TheBonesXXX

Nightflame + Sanc + Swift works fine for me.

kaithuzar

@Syiccal
Cyrodiil’s light would have to be ranked by class, as it’s stronger on magplar than it is on magblade.

kaithuzar

The problem with all of these defensive sets is that they do almost nothing, outside of impregnable, to counter the “bleed meta”

BxBourne

How about Ironblood? How does this set stack up with these sets for PvP? It's one of few that provides Major Protection.

Minno

kaithuzar wrote: »

@Syiccal
Cyrodiil’s light would have to be ranked by class, as it’s stronger on magplar than it is on magblade.

Cyro light is tied with wizard on a magplar. It's worse than vamp/minor protection on any other class.

kaithuzar wrote: »

The problem with all of these defensive sets is that they do almost nothing, outside of impregnable, to counter the “bleed meta”

Wizard, buffer, impreg, trans, pirate Skeleton and steadfast are all solid for bleed reduction. But it's just pressure, the DB burst will kill you.