PTS Feedback Thread for Sorcerer Balance Improvements

Lord-Otto

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

feyreisa12 wrote: »

While I understand and appreciate that devs have listened to feedback on Velocious Curse, I'm disappointed that the Overload nerf appears to be going forward as planned. Cutting that Ulti by 50% is too extreme. Someone else suggested that if you had to decrease overload's ulti storage, drop it to 750. I would rather you leave it as is, but a 25% loss of DPS is better than a 50% loss.

Using overload is a DPS loss.

Except in vMA.

Where stam sorcs rule. (>.>)

Minalan

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

While you guys are doing the balancing pass on Sorcerer can you look at doing something with Bound Armor? Outside of the 5% Magicka the 1320 physical and spell resistances do literally nothing. You have to give up a slot on both your front and back bar just to run it since it deactivates when you swap bars so would be great if you could give it something else that makes it worthwhile to run over just using Inner Light from the Mages Guild line which gives 7% Magicka/2% regen on top of revealing stealthed targets.

It gives 8% max magic.

Which nightblades get as a PASSIVE. Aegis shouldn't require a slot on every bar.

Remove the toggle functionality and make it work like mage light.

HELLB0UNDH0UND

jasonteck wrote: »

dont' nerf the hurricane. it is all we have as stam sorcs. we don't have the same skills in our skill line as other classes do. most are magic based that due damage.

Bruh if hurricane is the only thing getting changed about stamsorcs, I will take it with arms wide open. How much do you really know about the stamsorc? Have you seen crit surge? What about dark deal? Holy ***! Both of those skills are insanely huge. I think we can handle losing a little damage on hurricane..

Twohothardware

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

While you guys are doing the balancing pass on Sorcerer can you look at doing something with Bound Armor? Outside of the 5% Magicka the 1320 physical and spell resistances do literally nothing. You have to give up a slot on both your front and back bar just to run it since it deactivates when you swap bars so would be great if you could give it something else that makes it worthwhile to run over just using Inner Light from the Mages Guild line which gives 7% Magicka/2% regen on top of revealing stealthed targets.

It gives 8% max magic.

Didn't realize Bound Aegis levels up to 8% unlike Bound Armor but they still need to do something else with the 1320 physical and spell resistance buffs which make no noticeable difference before there's a reason to use this skill over Inner Light from the Mages Guild.

Blackfyre20

Stam sorcs complaining about the hurricane nerf and their lack of class tools blows my mind. Be grateful dark deal wasn't touched for some reason. Then go play a stamplar and see what an actual underpowered stamina class feels like.

leepalmer95

Twohothardware wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

While you guys are doing the balancing pass on Sorcerer can you look at doing something with Bound Armor? Outside of the 5% Magicka the 1320 physical and spell resistances do literally nothing. You have to give up a slot on both your front and back bar just to run it since it deactivates when you swap bars so would be great if you could give it something else that makes it worthwhile to run over just using Inner Light from the Mages Guild line which gives 7% Magicka/2% regen on top of revealing stealthed targets.

It gives 8% max magic.

Didn't realize Bound Aegis levels up to 8% unlike Bound Armor but they still need to do something else with the 1320 physical and spell resistance buffs which make no noticeable difference before there's a reason to use this skill over Inner Light from the Mages Guild.

Pve.

alexkdd99

Now can we please revert the ultimate change? Even just a little? Like others have said if you must nerf it, then only cut it by 25% not 50%.

All this will do is drag out vma a little longer for mag sorc. Surely your sole intention for this nerf isn't based on vma alone as nobody really uses this skill outside of vma.

leepalmer95

Still can't believe dark deal got over looked.

At least make it cost magicka if i interrupt it. There is no consequences for spamming it and getting caught out.

The_Undefined

Just my 2 cents, the curse should go back to the way ya'll had it before the increase in time for the second explosion. I think it was 3.5 then 6secs or something, maybe go with 3.5 to 7 seconds. Putting it at 8 just sets up a standard for everyone to ignore that second explosion and get that extra second in for the 3.5 unless I'm missing something.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

tamrielwinner

xblackroxe wrote: »

tamrielwinner wrote: »

i would prefer if they hadn't touched curse, even with the recent changes. it's better than nothing though. it's still a damage nerf to some degree, which is what i assume they were really wanting.

How is this a damage nerf?

i misunderstood the changes. i like them now.

dpencil

Just to clarify here, since it hasn't been mentioned yet in this thread:

The second curse will explode at 12sec from the initial cast. That is, 8.5 second AFTER the first explosion hits.

So if you cast it on cool down:
3.5 + 3.5 (7) + 3.5 (10.5) + 3.5 (14) [4 casts]

If you wait to cast after the full duration:
3.5 + 8.5 (12) + 3.5 (15.5) + 8.5 (24) [2 casts]

dpencil

@ZOS_GinaBruno
Personally, it's not easy for me to see why anyone using Velocious Curse would wait for the 2nd explosion. Yes, having a free explosion is nice if you're having sustain issues, but to maximize dps, running at 3.5 seconds will still be necessary.

Others have suggested that the echo be given to Daedric Prey, and I agree with them. Daedric Prey actually would benefit more from a longer uptime so that the full Volatile Familiar Pulse group 5 over 8 seconds.

Why not give an echo to BOTH MORPHS? Just make it part of what happens when you morph curse either way. You always get a 2nd explosion 12 seconds out, with one giving you the upfront 3.5 burst and the other the extra pet damage.

Please share this idea with the other devs.

Shinkhan

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Just wanted to thank everyone for all the feedback in this thread. We are going to be making tweaks to Velocious Curse for the next PTS build:

• Velocious Curse – This morph will still cause an echo, but now the explosions will occur at 3.5s and 8.5s, instead of 6s and 12s

This IS what you said :
Velocious Curse – This morph will still cause an echo, but now the explosions will occur at 3.5s and 8.5s, instead of 6s and 12s

8,5 INSTEAD of 12 !!!!!!!!!!!!!

And now this is what you said on the patch notes :
Haunting Curse (Deadric Curse morph): This morph continues to explode twice per cast, but now explodes once after 3.5 seconds and again after an """ADDITIONAL""" 8.5 seconds.

Seriously ?? so basically its the same final 12 sec !! and i tested it on pts it is like this. so what is this ! you said it will be a final 8,5 instead of 12 sec but now its a Final 12 sec.

Correct this ZOS !!

Tyrion87

Shinkhan wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Just wanted to thank everyone for all the feedback in this thread. We are going to be making tweaks to Velocious Curse for the next PTS build:

• Velocious Curse – This morph will still cause an echo, but now the explosions will occur at 3.5s and 8.5s, instead of 6s and 12s

This IS what you said :
Velocious Curse – This morph will still cause an echo, but now the explosions will occur at 3.5s and 8.5s, instead of 6s and 12s

8,5 INSTEAD of 12 !!!!!!!!!!!!!

And now this is what you said on the patch notes :
Haunting Curse (Deadric Curse morph): This morph continues to explode twice per cast, but now explodes once after 3.5 seconds and again after an """ADDITIONAL""" 8.5 seconds.

Seriously ?? so basically its the same final 12 sec !! and i tested it on pts it is like this. so what is this ! you said it will be a final 8,5 instead of 12 sec but now its a Final 12 sec.

Correct this ZOS !!

Yep, I agree that this is confusing and needs clarification since the patch notes and the post made by Rich are totally inconsistent. I understood Rich's post, just like many others, that the second explosion will occur at 8,5s after casting a curse, not after the first explosion. And tbh this is not a simple matter of misunderstanding since Rich clearly wrote: the explosions will occur at 3.5s and 8.5s, instead of 6s and 12s. And this was quite interesting. But after reading the patch notes, this echo thing seems to be a luckluster - nobody will wait 12s after casting a curse for the second explosion; to maximize dps people will be recasting a curse every 3,5s.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert Where is a mistake then? In the patch notes or in the Rich's post? Did something change after Rich made his post?

psychotic13

Tyrion87 wrote: »

Shinkhan wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Just wanted to thank everyone for all the feedback in this thread. We are going to be making tweaks to Velocious Curse for the next PTS build:

• Velocious Curse – This morph will still cause an echo, but now the explosions will occur at 3.5s and 8.5s, instead of 6s and 12s

This IS what you said :
Velocious Curse – This morph will still cause an echo, but now the explosions will occur at 3.5s and 8.5s, instead of 6s and 12s

8,5 INSTEAD of 12 !!!!!!!!!!!!!

And now this is what you said on the patch notes :
Haunting Curse (Deadric Curse morph): This morph continues to explode twice per cast, but now explodes once after 3.5 seconds and again after an """ADDITIONAL""" 8.5 seconds.

Seriously ?? so basically its the same final 12 sec !! and i tested it on pts it is like this. so what is this ! you said it will be a final 8,5 instead of 12 sec but now its a Final 12 sec.

Correct this ZOS !!

Yep, I agree that this is confusing and needs clarification since the patch notes and the post made by Rich are totally inconsistent. I understood Rich's post, just like many others, that the second explosion will occur at 8,5s after casting a curse, not after the first explosion. And tbh this is not a simple matter of misunderstanding since Rich clearly wrote: the explosions will occur at 3.5s and 8.5s, instead of 6s and 12s. And this was quite interesting. But after reading the patch notes, this echo thing seems to be a luckluster - nobody will wait 12s after casting a curse for the second explosion; to maximize dps people will be recasting a curse every 3,5s.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert Where is a mistake then? In the patch notes or in the Rich's post? Did something change after Rich made his post?

If it's at 3.5 and 12s they really shouldn't have even bothered to alter the ability, like you said no one will wait for the second explosion.

Minalan

psychotic13 wrote: »

Tyrion87 wrote: »

Shinkhan wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Just wanted to thank everyone for all the feedback in this thread. We are going to be making tweaks to Velocious Curse for the next PTS build:

• Velocious Curse – This morph will still cause an echo, but now the explosions will occur at 3.5s and 8.5s, instead of 6s and 12s

This IS what you said :
Velocious Curse – This morph will still cause an echo, but now the explosions will occur at 3.5s and 8.5s, instead of 6s and 12s

8,5 INSTEAD of 12 !!!!!!!!!!!!!

And now this is what you said on the patch notes :
Haunting Curse (Deadric Curse morph): This morph continues to explode twice per cast, but now explodes once after 3.5 seconds and again after an """ADDITIONAL""" 8.5 seconds.

Seriously ?? so basically its the same final 12 sec !! and i tested it on pts it is like this. so what is this ! you said it will be a final 8,5 instead of 12 sec but now its a Final 12 sec.

Correct this ZOS !!

Yep, I agree that this is confusing and needs clarification since the patch notes and the post made by Rich are totally inconsistent. I understood Rich's post, just like many others, that the second explosion will occur at 8,5s after casting a curse, not after the first explosion. And tbh this is not a simple matter of misunderstanding since Rich clearly wrote: the explosions will occur at 3.5s and 8.5s, instead of 6s and 12s. And this was quite interesting. But after reading the patch notes, this echo thing seems to be a luckluster - nobody will wait 12s after casting a curse for the second explosion; to maximize dps people will be recasting a curse every 3,5s.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert Where is a mistake then? In the patch notes or in the Rich's post? Did something change after Rich made his post?

If it's at 3.5 and 12s they really shouldn't have even bothered to alter the ability, like you said no one will wait for the second explosion.

The PVE guys will, and that's fine. So long as I can hit something at 3.5 like we do on live, I'm golden.

Malamar1229

Ball of Lightning needs another second or two added to the orb. With the cost increase of bolt escape, the timer is so short to be really effective and I have a feeling this skill will get more utilization with Homestead (when all the rerolls come back to magicka)

AgentofKhaoss

If you're listening about Curse, listen PLEASE and don't nerf Hurricane. Stam Sorcs have so few ways to be competitive. It allows us to mop up mobs in pve and adds mobility in pvp. We can't shield stack, we can't use most of our class abilities, you are nerfing Overload and now Hurricane? Please. We are in a good place.

Sandman929

The stam sorc crocodile tears are pretty funny. They've got a massive AoE that can proc Implosion. It needed the damage reduction.

TheHsN

Velicious Curse DIDNT GET BUFFEDDDDD....

good players never will wait to acho at 8.5 sec...

We always cast it again after 3.5 or 4


people say OOO BUFF noo it is not... it is not like while it hits 4000 like now 6000k ...

SO there isnt any changes realy in the name of BALANCE for SORC .....................

Staff buff is not specific to SORC it is for all MAGICKA USERS.................................................

Minalan

TheHsN wrote: »

Velicious Curse DIDNT GET BUFFEDDDDD....

good players never will wait to acho at 8.5 sec...

We always cast it again after 3.5 or 4


people say OOO BUFF noo it is not... it is not like while it hits 4000 like now 6000k ...

SO there isnt any changes realy in the name of BALANCE for SORC .....................

Staff buff is not specific to SORC it is for all MAGICKA USERS.................................................

Most of us are just happy that we're not getting a nerf It could be worse, we could be nightblades.

Meanwhile stamina templars are one shotting people with "copied" damage.

gibous

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

I would lie if I say that I'm not happy about the changes, but to be honest, this sounds pretty broken in my opinion. Would have preferred something to break roots and snares.

Wouldn't it make sense if boundless storm lived up to its name in this regard? Right now it should be called: "Speedy Storm Unless You're Ridiculously Snared Because Then it's Just Regular Storm."

Pinja

cpuScientist wrote: »

feyreisa12 wrote: »

While I understand and appreciate that devs have listened to feedback on Velocious Curse, I'm disappointed that the Overload nerf appears to be going forward as planned. Cutting that Ulti by 50% is too extreme. Someone else suggested that if you had to decrease overload's ulti storage, drop it to 750. I would rather you leave it as is, but a 25% loss of DPS is better than a 50% loss.

Here is what they are doing. Once again nerfing a part of the sorcs kit for the sake of VMA. They always do it as sorcs are king of that jungle. OL for mag sorcs was a big reason and now it has been nerfed. It's really the only place that it is still used and relied upon. So now we cannot just down all the bosses with it. We have to go slower again. Nerfed again for VMA. But notice how so many are not complaining it's because ZOS already killed that skills usefulness a long while ago. So many frankly don't give a darn.

Meh, this isn't really much of a nerf & only prolongs certain fights in VMA by a few dozen seconds were they're pronlonged by the otherwise burstible health bars. Almost everywhere else it will free up the use of better AoE ultimates on trash mobs, by technically letting you charge up the ultimate twice as fast. Figuratively rather then saving ult 2 trash mobs before a boss, you'd speed up the process ulting the first mob & get a full 500 on the second to start the boss. Past the initial 500 in a prolong 4 or 12 man fight the ultimate's use is all based on the recharge meaning you'll be throwing the 'same' amount of it out across the fight more often (-500). In trials I usually only let it stack to about 250 after the initial burn to keep it in time with the rotation of my DoTs, theoretically increasing Dps.
Not to say it doesn't hurt in certain narrow to play circumstances in PvP but... We've been worse.

Indirect overcharge change.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Combat & Gameplay
General

• Reduced the maximum amount of Ultimate that can be stored to 500 from 1000.

Beardimus

Cool that they listened on Curse timing.

Maybe hope is not lost for Overload. Or an explanation of why its getting cut in half? Where was the OL hate coming from?

Pet targetting for consoles would naturally fit in this patch..

And I agree Bound Ageis should not be a toggle. In particular for pet builds. So many slots doubled up

Blackfyre20

AgentofKhaoss wrote: »

If you're listening about Curse, listen PLEASE and don't nerf Hurricane. Stam Sorcs have so few ways to be competitive. It allows us to mop up mobs in pve and adds mobility in pvp. We can't shield stack, we can't use most of our class abilities, you are nerfing Overload and now Hurricane? Please. We are in a good place.

Yea I'd be pretty content too if I were in a good place above everyone else. Relax, the hurricane nerf is not going to break your build, stam sorcs are still strong.

TheHsN wrote: »

Velicious Curse DIDNT GET BUFFEDDDDD....

good players never will wait to acho at 8.5 sec...

We always cast it again after 3.5 or 4


people say OOO BUFF noo it is not... it is not like while it hits 4000 like now 6000k ...

SO there isnt any changes realy in the name of BALANCE for SORC .....................

Staff buff is not specific to SORC it is for all MAGICKA USERS.................................................

Mag sorcs are in a good place, what changes could you want? If you run pets, you got buffed, and if you don't then you're still in a good place. You are correct that the staff buff is for all magicka users, so even though it is not sorc specific, it is still a buff that every stamina class didn't get.

Isn't the goal to get to a place where the game is balanced and we don't need a bunch of changes every patch? That is not realistic, but have you thought that maybe the reason there weren't a bunch of sorc changes outside of pets is because the class is in a good place balance wise right now? The only changes IMO that would be nice for sorcs are increasing shield duration to 10 seconds, more for quality of life than anything else, and pet targeting on console. The class is in a competitive place right now for both stamina and magicka, and arguably the best for both (at least in PvP and vMA), enough with the complaining.

SmalltalkJava

Zos, Love the sorc pet changes. Is it possible to make the aoe morph Crystal Blast use lightening elemental damage? It would make it much more useable in relation to sustain.

gibous

SmalltalkJava wrote: »

Is it possible to make the aoe morph Crystal Blast use lightening elemental damage? It would make it much more useable in relation to sustain.

Wow, sometimes I just completely forget about that morph, that's how bad it is. It will be a strange day if and when they ever make crystal blast a viable alternative to fragments.

Derra

gibous wrote: »

SmalltalkJava wrote: »

Is it possible to make the aoe morph Crystal Blast use lightening elemental damage? It would make it much more useable in relation to sustain.

Wow, sometimes I just completely forget about that morph, that's how bad it is. It will be a strange day if and when they ever make crystal blast a viable alternative to fragments.

You just have to use it when a lot of enemies charge at you. That´s where you´ll find it´s strengh.

Minalan

gibous wrote: »

SmalltalkJava wrote: »

Is it possible to make the aoe morph Crystal Blast use lightening elemental damage? It would make it much more useable in relation to sustain.

Wow, sometimes I just completely forget about that morph, that's how bad it is. It will be a strange day if and when they ever make crystal blast a viable alternative to fragments.

Please don't ask for that. Just don't.

They'll make shards viable by nerfing fragments. You know they will.

Want to fix something? Ask for Bound Aegis to get the 'mage light' toggle-removal treatment, so that it doesn't take space on both bars if you don't want to.

Tyrobag

Minalan wrote: »

gibous wrote: »

SmalltalkJava wrote: »

Is it possible to make the aoe morph Crystal Blast use lightening elemental damage? It would make it much more useable in relation to sustain.

Wow, sometimes I just completely forget about that morph, that's how bad it is. It will be a strange day if and when they ever make crystal blast a viable alternative to fragments.

Please don't ask for that. Just don't.

They'll make shards viable by nerfing fragments. You know they will.

Want to fix something? Ask for Bound Aegis to get the 'mage light' toggle-removal treatment, so that it doesn't take space on both bars if you don't want to.

Or just fix all the toggle abilities, so you only need them on one bar to leave them toggled on.