PTS Feedback Thread for Sorcerer Balance Improvements

TheHsN

psychotic13 wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Just wanted to thank everyone for all the feedback in this thread. We are going to be making tweaks to Velocious Curse for the next PTS build:

• Velocious Curse – This morph will still cause an echo, but now the explosions will occur at 3.5s and 8.5s, instead of 6s and 12s

Thanks! I think this is a great change thank you for taking your time to respond to us

tnx For this really....

BUT,
you stil didnt make any balance about those which skills need...you basicly didnt change anything in the name of BALANCE...

you did take back already what was wtong in the first place... So there wont be anything about sorc thats is it?

Icarus42

Thank you for reverting the curse change. Now can we discuss equilibrium in the mages guild skill line, and does anyone even use it...

CyrusArya

This is not a major buff as some people are making it out to be. Personally I wouldn't mind if curse just stayed as it is on live. It did get a slight buff, as the new morph is definitely not a nerf. But this haunting change just means if you forget to cast it or can't for whatever reason it will reload. It will still provide more damage in the same time frame (in PvP) if you use it exactly like it is on the live server, which is probably why they chose the 3.5/8.5 second increments.

And if you wanna utilize the echo, you can squeeze in a whole nother crushing shock+light attack in that 1.5 seconds. Not exactly a game breaking buff.

Every other magicka class also saw buffs, so whats the problem? Sorc will be more powerful, due to global changes, but the whole point of this patch was to make magicka builds stronger.

That being said, I am very happy with how sorc is on live and also with where its going. But there is one change I would like to see now that this curse debacle is settled. When streaking from a place of high elevation to low elevation, after the streak duration the character just hits a wall and completely loses momentum. This is the number 1 cause of death for me in cyrodiil and a completely immersion breaking experience. Can we please make it so sorcs can maintain momentum when streaking on un even terrain, rather than slowly floating down to the ground?

Lord_Hev

CyrusArya wrote: »

This is not a major buff as some people are making it out to be. Personally I wouldn't mind if curse just stayed as it is on live. It did get a slight buff, as the new morph is definitely not a nerf. But this haunting change just means if you forget to cast it or can't for whatever reason it will reload. It will still provide more damage in the same time frame (in PvP) if you use it exactly like it is on the live server, which is probably why they chose the 3.5/8.5 second increments.

And if you wanna utilize the echo, you can squeeze in a whole nother crushing shock+light attack in that 1.5 seconds. Not exactly a game breaking buff.

Every other magicka class also saw buffs, so whats the problem? Sorc will be more powerful, due to global changes, but the whole point of this patch was to make magicka builds stronger.

That being said, I am very happy with how sorc is on live and also with where its going. But there is one change I would like to see now that this curse debacle is settled. When streaking from a place of high elevation to low elevation, after the streak duration the character just hits a wall and completely loses momentum. This is the number 1 cause of death for me in cyrodiil and a completely immersion breaking experience. Can we please make it so sorcs can maintain momentum when streaking on un even terrain, rather than slowly floating down to the ground?

Agreed. If anything, the echo curse thing should just be applied to Daedric Prey for PvE. Velocious curse does not need any changes from how it functions on live.


A rework on bolt escape + 10 second shields and I feel Magic Sorc will be fine.

Kalante

Mashille wrote: »

Are people seriously rejoicing over the fact that Curse Got doubled in strength?

So, as this now triggers twice with the same timer, it's effectively half the cost, double the damage. I did not really have an issue with curse as it was and I thought the initial change was a bit dumb.

But now you overbuff it to 1000% and people are saying 'Omg thank god ZOS finally learned how to balance the game'

Well of course they are not going to complain. What mag sorc is going to come in here and complain that their class got buffed? or any player in that matter. Instead they rather stay quiet so they don't revert the changes. When the change to curse was shown all the mag sorcs in this game starter crying but now that it got buffed for whatever reason they are all nice and quiet.Same thing with stam templars.None of them care that their ultimate costs the same as incap but it is literally miles better basically an incap on steroids but they do not care because it's their class. It's just human nature to not care when their favor is on their side.

saten

Icarus42 wrote: »

Thank you for reverting the curse change. Now can we discuss equilibrium in the mages guild skill line, and does anyone even use it...

Nope.

Finisherofwar

THANK YOU, now never touch velicious curse again please and thank you.

leepalmer95

Lmao all these sorc's are all like 'ty for the curse buff'

Curse did not need changing at all, it didn't need nerfing or buffing ffs.

Curse got a huge buff for no reason now lmao.

Revert it to 3.5s explosion only and put the echo on the daedric prey morph.

Ishammael

Wow, talking about folding like a cheap suit.

Akimbro

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Lmao all these sorc's are all like 'ty for the curse buff'

Curse did not need changing at all, it didn't need nerfing or buffing ffs.

Curse got a huge buff for no reason now lmao.

Revert it to 3.5s explosion only and put the echo on the daedric prey morph.

No one is arguing against that it didn't need changing...

leepalmer95

Akimbro wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Lmao all these sorc's are all like 'ty for the curse buff'

Curse did not need changing at all, it didn't need nerfing or buffing ffs.

Curse got a huge buff for no reason now lmao.

Revert it to 3.5s explosion only and put the echo on the daedric prey morph.

No one is arguing against that it didn't need changing...

All the 'OMG ty zos great change' sorc's say otherwise

Theres very few who actually care about the balance. Most of them were happily crying when the original change was announced, and i agree 6s was too much curse was fine as it was. Now instead of a unnecessary nerf it got a unnecessary buff, where are they now?

It's funny their all for balance when the change isn't in there favour they ignore balance when the change it in there favor.

This is why this forum is basically useless now days, most don't care for balance they care only for their own self interest on whichever class they are playing.

lygerseye

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Akimbro wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Lmao all these sorc's are all like 'ty for the curse buff'

Curse did not need changing at all, it didn't need nerfing or buffing ffs.

Curse got a huge buff for no reason now lmao.

Revert it to 3.5s explosion only and put the echo on the daedric prey morph.

No one is arguing against that it didn't need changing...

All the 'OMG ty zos great change' sorc's say otherwise

Theres very few who actually care about the balance. Most of them were happily crying when the original change was announced, and i agree 6s was too much curse was fine as it was. Now instead of a unnecessary nerf it got a unnecessary buff, where are they now?

It's funny their all for balance when the change isn't in there favour they ignore balance when the change it in there favor.

This is why this forum is basically useless now days, most don't care for balance they care only for their own self interest on whichever class they are playing.

Everyone complaining about HC said either "leave VC alone" or "make this change to Dardric Prey instead". No one asked for the newest buff to VC.

leepalmer95

lygerseye wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Akimbro wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Lmao all these sorc's are all like 'ty for the curse buff'

Curse did not need changing at all, it didn't need nerfing or buffing ffs.

Curse got a huge buff for no reason now lmao.

Revert it to 3.5s explosion only and put the echo on the daedric prey morph.

No one is arguing against that it didn't need changing...

All the 'OMG ty zos great change' sorc's say otherwise

Theres very few who actually care about the balance. Most of them were happily crying when the original change was announced, and i agree 6s was too much curse was fine as it was. Now instead of a unnecessary nerf it got a unnecessary buff, where are they now?

It's funny their all for balance when the change isn't in there favour they ignore balance when the change it in there favor.

This is why this forum is basically useless now days, most don't care for balance they care only for their own self interest on whichever class they are playing.

Everyone complaining about HC said either "leave VC alone" or "make this change to Dardric Prey instead". No one asked for the newest buff to VC.

And yet i'm failing to see all the ones saying 'leave VC alone' acknowledged that the buff was not needed, they all seem pretty happy now they are on the other end of balancing. Most either have shut up about balancing or are celebrating.

Now seemed happy enough to complain about balance when they were nerfed they seem to be quite when they got buffed. Not exactly out for 'balance.

Sandman929

This Curse is being considered a buff? Maybe for PvE. For PvP it seems like I have a choice; I can reapply Curse after the first explosion and get another in 3.5 seconds, or I can wait 5 seconds for the free echo.

I'll be reapplying Curse. I don't want the echo, I want pressure and burst.

leepalmer95

Sandman929 wrote: »

This Curse is being considered a buff? Maybe for PvE. For PvP it seems like I have a choice; I can reapply Curse after the first explosion and get another in 3.5 seconds, or I can wait 5 seconds for the free echo.

I'll be reapplying Curse. I don't want the echo, I want pressure and burst.

Think of it this way. When a curse is about the proc you usually cast a frags/ execute/ rushing shock weave or an ult which will take 1 global cooldown of 1s.

So if you re apply curse straight away, assuming you don't need to recast shields, streak, use frag/ execute etc... you new curse will go off 0.5s before the echo would of. But saying this global cooldowns at in 1s intervals, so even if you cast curse just as the first one went off that would be 4s not 3.5s. So realistically there will be no difference it time.

I'd take the free damage of the echo as well as the saved magicka of it. Letting your echo burst will save you magicka and gives a bit of sustain.

lygerseye

leepalmer95 wrote: »

lygerseye wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Akimbro wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Lmao all these sorc's are all like 'ty for the curse buff'

Curse did not need changing at all, it didn't need nerfing or buffing ffs.

Curse got a huge buff for no reason now lmao.

Revert it to 3.5s explosion only and put the echo on the daedric prey morph.

No one is arguing against that it didn't need changing...

All the 'OMG ty zos great change' sorc's say otherwise

Theres very few who actually care about the balance. Most of them were happily crying when the original change was announced, and i agree 6s was too much curse was fine as it was. Now instead of a unnecessary nerf it got a unnecessary buff, where are they now?

It's funny their all for balance when the change isn't in there favour they ignore balance when the change it in there favor.

This is why this forum is basically useless now days, most don't care for balance they care only for their own self interest on whichever class they are playing.

Everyone complaining about HC said either "leave VC alone" or "make this change to Dardric Prey instead". No one asked for the newest buff to VC.

And yet i'm failing to see all the ones saying 'leave VC alone' acknowledged that the buff was not needed, they all seem pretty happy now they are on the other end of balancing. Most either have shut up about balancing or are celebrating.

Now seemed happy enough to complain about balance when they were nerfed they seem to be quite when they got buffed. Not exactly out for 'balance.

Those complaining spent a week saying "don't change VC" and ZOS's response was to still change it. If they only half-listen the first time, I doubt an additional week of complaining is going to matter, especially when PVP-ers got to keep the one piece of VC they wanted. The second burst at 8.5s is not going to get used much (VC getting reapplied before it goes off), nor be that effective in Cyrodiil (after 8 seconds the target is likely dead or has purged/healed past being in immediate danger)

leepalmer95

lygerseye wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

lygerseye wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Akimbro wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Lmao all these sorc's are all like 'ty for the curse buff'

Curse did not need changing at all, it didn't need nerfing or buffing ffs.

Curse got a huge buff for no reason now lmao.

Revert it to 3.5s explosion only and put the echo on the daedric prey morph.

No one is arguing against that it didn't need changing...

All the 'OMG ty zos great change' sorc's say otherwise

Theres very few who actually care about the balance. Most of them were happily crying when the original change was announced, and i agree 6s was too much curse was fine as it was. Now instead of a unnecessary nerf it got a unnecessary buff, where are they now?

It's funny their all for balance when the change isn't in there favour they ignore balance when the change it in there favor.

This is why this forum is basically useless now days, most don't care for balance they care only for their own self interest on whichever class they are playing.

Everyone complaining about HC said either "leave VC alone" or "make this change to Dardric Prey instead". No one asked for the newest buff to VC.

And yet i'm failing to see all the ones saying 'leave VC alone' acknowledged that the buff was not needed, they all seem pretty happy now they are on the other end of balancing. Most either have shut up about balancing or are celebrating.

Now seemed happy enough to complain about balance when they were nerfed they seem to be quite when they got buffed. Not exactly out for 'balance.

Those complaining spent a week saying "don't change VC" and ZOS's response was to still change it. If they only half-listen the first time, I doub't an additional week of complaining is going to matter, especially when PVP-era got to keep the one piece of VC they wanted. The second burst at 8.5s is not going to get used much (VC getting reapplied before it goes off), nor be that effective in Cyrodiil (after 8 seconds the target is likely dead or has purged/healed past being in immediate danger)

the extra 1.5s extra time the echo takes won't even be noticable.

The first 0.5s won't be because global cooldowns are in 1s, so even if you recast as soon as it explodes you can only do so 4s after the first cast.

The extra second may seem like time wasted but usually a curse isn't instantly on someone after it explodes, a burst combo is usually followed with a execute/ frag/ ult or force pulse in order to try and finish the enemy, by that time the echo will go off 3.5s later so you may as well just save magicka and not recast because it won't be needed.

cschwingeb14_ESO

Sandman929 wrote: »

This Curse is being considered a buff? Maybe for PvE. For PvP it seems like I have a choice; I can reapply Curse after the first explosion and get another in 3.5 seconds, or I can wait 5 seconds for the free echo.

I'll be reapplying Curse. I don't want the echo, I want pressure and burst.

If you're not being attacked, you'll probably re-curse. But if you have to ward up after 4s the new timing is perfect getting a double burst out of curse:

Ward up
Curse
(Damage skill)
(Damage skill)
(CC/empower skill)
(curse explodes)

At this point, your Ward is about to drop. So you Ward up again, and have 4 seconds before the next curse explosion to layer on your attacks.

The 8.5s timing also works great with proxy det

STEVIL

Sandman929 wrote: »

This Curse is being considered a buff? Maybe for PvE. For PvP it seems like I have a choice; I can reapply Curse after the first explosion and get another in 3.5 seconds, or I can wait 5 seconds for the free echo.

I'll be reapplying Curse. I don't want the echo, I want pressure and burst.

yes and you may now choose to do so. you have now the option if sustain is more important than pressure at the particular instant to opt for the echo option maybe working in a hvy attack or something else and still get a second boom from the one click of HC/VC.

thats not an option you had before.

I would imagine if strife kept its cost increase but automatically procced again when the HOT was complete for another spate of damage and another HOT run for no additional cost that perhaps you might consider that a buff, even if it has a whole 1.5s additional time involved? or maybe flurry?

yeah lets take flurry - if you do not spam another flurry within 2s of ending one, another flurry starts for free. You can do other things during that period like say strife at its increased cost but then hey you save back when your second flurry goes free...

and we would see how many line up on the "thats not a buff either" train for PVP?

Dartricz

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Just wanted to thank everyone for all the feedback in this thread. We are going to be making tweaks to Velocious Curse for the next PTS build:

• Velocious Curse – This morph will still cause an echo, but now the explosions will occur at 3.5s and 8.5s, instead of 6s and 12s

Good! Would still rather you not change it at all but I can live with this. Thanks for listening to us.

old_mufasa

CyrusArya wrote: »

Every other magicka class also saw buffs, so whats the problem? Sorc will be more powerful, due to global changes, but the whole point of this patch was to make magicka builds stronger.

I'm sorry.. what world do you live in?

Magblades got a 38% increase in there main spam costs with NO buffs at all... and got a damage buff to there AOE skill that still lags behind elemental blockade and other class aoe.. but at least its not a total waste to cast now...so one nerf and one change that brings up a skill to just under par with other mage class dps... oh but lets not for get the fact that we are talking about one of the lowest dps class in pve as well...

Dragon knights got 5% increase to there spam.. and fixs to some skill some of that hardly used anyhow.. but totally ignored they main issue.. that dragon knight magic skills are way more expensive then anyone else and it was totally ignored.. and they had promised major changes to the class.. I don't call getting 5% whip change and nurfing our standard major buffs.. or fixing chains to work and dragon leap to work..

The staff changes are nice.. don't get me wrong.. but that's a buff across all mage class's

Over all Id say sorcs made out like bandits this patch..

STEVIL

old_mufasa wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

Every other magicka class also saw buffs, so whats the problem? Sorc will be more powerful, due to global changes, but the whole point of this patch was to make magicka builds stronger.

I'm sorry.. what world do you live in?

Magblades got a 38% increase in there main spam costs with NO buffs at all... and got a damage buff to there AOE skill that still lags behind elemental blockade and other class aoe.. but at least its not a total waste to cast now...so one nerf and one change that brings up a skill to just under par with other mage class dps... oh but lets not for get the fact that we are talking about one of the lowest dps class in pve as well...

Dragon knights got 5% increase to there spam.. and fixs to some skill some of that hardly used anyhow.. but totally ignored they main issue.. that dragon knight magic skills are way more expensive then anyone else and it was totally ignored.. and they had promised major changes to the class.. I don't call getting 5% whip change and nurfing our standard major buffs.. or fixing chains to work and dragon leap to work..

The staff changes are nice.. don't get me wrong.. but that's a buff across all mage class's

Over all Id say sorcs made out like bandits this patch..

on catch... "so far."

The final "go live" might very well see this latest buff removed or shifted to the pet curse still.

i mean, in my mind, if the net result of this all is that ZOS moves the 12s whammy to pet curse, puts VC back to square one and keeps a list of who said "its fine dont weaken it" about the VC cutback in PTS-1 and then said "its fine now with the buff thanks for balance" after the buff in PTS-3 so they can give their comments all the due respect and credence they deserve in the future... then i will be great with this as far as the sorc-curse thing goes.

And yeah that would still be a net plus for sorc given other changes across the classes.

Minalan

STEVIL wrote: »

old_mufasa wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

Every other magicka class also saw buffs, so whats the problem? Sorc will be more powerful, due to global changes, but the whole point of this patch was to make magicka builds stronger.

I'm sorry.. what world do you live in?

Magblades got a 38% increase in there main spam costs with NO buffs at all... and got a damage buff to there AOE skill that still lags behind elemental blockade and other class aoe.. but at least its not a total waste to cast now...so one nerf and one change that brings up a skill to just under par with other mage class dps... oh but lets not for get the fact that we are talking about one of the lowest dps class in pve as well...

Dragon knights got 5% increase to there spam.. and fixs to some skill some of that hardly used anyhow.. but totally ignored they main issue.. that dragon knight magic skills are way more expensive then anyone else and it was totally ignored.. and they had promised major changes to the class.. I don't call getting 5% whip change and nurfing our standard major buffs.. or fixing chains to work and dragon leap to work..

The staff changes are nice.. don't get me wrong.. but that's a buff across all mage class's

Over all Id say sorcs made out like bandits this patch..

on catch... "so far."

The final "go live" might very well see this latest buff removed or shifted to the pet curse still.

i mean, in my mind, if the net result of this all is that ZOS moves the 12s whammy to pet curse, puts VC back to square one and keeps a list of who said "its fine dont weaken it" about the VC cutback in PTS-1 and then said "its fine now with the buff thanks for balance" after the buff in PTS-3 so they can give their comments all the due respect and credence they deserve in the future... then i will be great with this as far as the sorc-curse thing goes.

And yeah that would still be a net plus for sorc given other changes across the classes.

For once we agree. Hopefully they move the change to the pet morph.

I'll be fine with where it is, but I won't be using the 'echo' unless I'm CC'ed or dead.

Hippie_Einstein

Just wanted to say thank you for listening to us. Really surprising and will indeed continue my sub I was planning on cancelling xD The 3.5 seconds was definitely key, I can either pay to recast quicker or let the later explosion go off if I need to Regen This makes way more sense

Digiman

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Just wanted to thank everyone for all the feedback in this thread. We are going to be making tweaks to Velocious Curse for the next PTS build:

• Velocious Curse – This morph will still cause an echo, but now the explosions will occur at 3.5s and 8.5s, instead of 6s and 12s

@ZOS_RichLambert thanks for not breaking the class for PvP.

olsborg

One thing that needs to happen imo, is Crystal Fragment/Shard: The speed of the projectile needs to be increased by atleast 20%+ Atm its the slowed moving projectile and extremely easy to avoid/dodge.

AgentofKhaoss

It seems that the nerf is just arbitrary.Velocious Curse is great as it is. It's not overpowered and very useful in skilled hands. Why change it? Hurricane is strong but Stam sorcs can't use most of the sorcerer abilities. Why take a key portion of my damage package and nerf I am forced to use mostly weapn skills because my class skills use magika and are not effective for me.

Even with the weapon ultimates, you give the destruction staff a powerful AOE ultimate that is useful in pve and pvp, but the Bow, Two-Hand and Dual Wield ultimates are all single target. (I can't believe I'm saying this)

Instead of nerfi abilities, why not address the less used class abilities (Crystal Shards..... cough cough) or add a Stam morph for a few more abilities or even add a Magika morph for all weapon classes.

Minalan

olsborg wrote: »

One thing that needs to happen imo, is Crystal Fragment/Shard: The speed of the projectile needs to be increased by atleast 20%+ Atm its the slowed moving projectile and extremely easy to avoid/dodge.

That's the balance part... the damage on it is pretty high on the ability. The speed is the counter play. It can be blocked, dodged, or reflected mid-flight.

We're not nightblades. We don't do one second kills and come here and tell everyone how bad we NEED it...

Lord-Otto

Minalan wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

One thing that needs to happen imo, is Crystal Fragment/Shard: The speed of the projectile needs to be increased by atleast 20%+ Atm its the slowed moving projectile and extremely easy to avoid/dodge.

That's the balance part... the damage on it is pretty high on the ability. The speed is the counter play. It can be blocked, dodged, or reflected mid-flight.

We're not nightblades. We don't do one second kills and come here and tell everyone how bad we NEED it...

xD
QFT!
(^_-)

Morgul667

Thanks for the reverse on curse, appreciated.