PTS Feedback Thread for Sorcerer Balance Improvements

Oxalias · January 2017

I've already popped my agrees with the major points but still wanted to say, why are you trying to kill mag sorcs if you nerf curse you break and lose mag sorc. Just leave it as it is...

STEVIL · January 2017

KramUzibra wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

KramUzibra wrote: »

Mazoku_ wrote: »

I would like to start by thanking you *ZOS for retaining the 3.5 s burst for the haunting curse re work.
Now, i have always played magsorc pvp with a lighting staff. It's my playstyle and have always preferred it over flame or frost. And i know many other sorcs feel the same way.
Now with these new changes to the passives (flame staff increases damage with single target abilities) isn't this forcing all of us to use flame staff for pvp?
I mean who wouldn't want to squeeze the most dps out of their curse, execute , frags, and pulse?
I think it is taking away freedom of choice when it comes to your pvp staff and i believe thats wrong. Why should everyone be forced into using a staff they might not like just so they can remain competitive?

Minalan wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

KramUzibra wrote: »

NightSquirrel wrote: »

Stam sorcs should not be able to proc implosions, that is my two-cents.

They don't necessarily have to do anything except add a skill point in their class passives. Implosion just happens while they fight. If anything reduce the dmg to be comparable to an enchant around 2 thousand. Getting hit with 10k+ is way too powerful. Personally I don't think it should exist at all but I'll take a compromise if zos is willing.

Now correct me if i am wrong but arent there a lot of passives that can result in damage?

crit boosts for assassination passives, Stealth boosts for 10%, etc.

never will understand the artifical line between damage listed on recap separately from massive boosts like crits deliver which are added-in to the base powers.

To me, its how much damage you do and when and so forth - not how the recap lists it.

Don't forget 8% max magicka for nightblades. I'd take that over a 5% execute chance passive any day.

Some people want to pretend that one hit at full health means implosion procs left and right. That's asinine. It only triggers when you're almost dead anyways.

So you believe its ok and balanced for a sorc to passively grant you a 5 to 10k+ burst damage that finishes your target for you when I need to run an execute that requires me to physically activate an ability in order to do the same thing?

... it has a 5% proc chance. Statistically it needs to hit you twenty times at extremely low health to go off. You're either bad at math, or just hopelessly blubbering at this point with the e-tears everywhere.

Yeah I kind of laugh it off when it happens to me. I shrug, say "lucky shot", then res up. Most of the time when I die to it, I would have died with or without the implosion. So All he gets is a cool disintegrate animation out of it. And I have to admit, it is cool.

I'm aware of the proc chance, I run a medium armor dk so I get bursted down within that threshold that's procs implosion very often and have been killed by extremely high proced implosions. I will say this it happens far more frequent with stam sorcs. Usually with other classes I have an opportunity to roll dodge vigor rally I cant do that when the sorcs can passively execute me. Mind you it's an execute that you can not see thus 0 counter play. Again damage like that should be applied thru player intervention not freely given.

its 6% chance when you take damage at 15% health or less. if we assume 30k health thats 4500 health - proc dead so what?

My bet is the passive pen from light armor or the various medium armor passives have contributed more to your death than this 6% last legs kill proc does - heck the minor sorcery passive likely has.

just because it appears on your recap doesn't mean its why you died... many things more likely critical to your death dont show on recaps as separate items.

matter of fact, CCs are likely responsible for far more deaths if you really get down to it than implosion procs ever have and CC dont show on recaps damage lists at all.

but if you are spending enough time at <15% health that you are this animated about a 6% chance... my bet is really implosion is way way down on the list of things you should be focusing on.

Just because the last 15% of a fall passes by more quickly than the previous parts... doesn't mean that last 155 is what killed you or is responsible for your death.

KramUzibra · January 2017

STEVIL wrote: »

KramUzibra wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

KramUzibra wrote: »

Mazoku_ wrote: »

I would like to start by thanking you *ZOS for retaining the 3.5 s burst for the haunting curse re work.
Now, i have always played magsorc pvp with a lighting staff. It's my playstyle and have always preferred it over flame or frost. And i know many other sorcs feel the same way.
Now with these new changes to the passives (flame staff increases damage with single target abilities) isn't this forcing all of us to use flame staff for pvp?
I mean who wouldn't want to squeeze the most dps out of their curse, execute , frags, and pulse?
I think it is taking away freedom of choice when it comes to your pvp staff and i believe thats wrong. Why should everyone be forced into using a staff they might not like just so they can remain competitive?

Minalan wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

KramUzibra wrote: »

NightSquirrel wrote: »

Stam sorcs should not be able to proc implosions, that is my two-cents.

They don't necessarily have to do anything except add a skill point in their class passives. Implosion just happens while they fight. If anything reduce the dmg to be comparable to an enchant around 2 thousand. Getting hit with 10k+ is way too powerful. Personally I don't think it should exist at all but I'll take a compromise if zos is willing.

Now correct me if i am wrong but arent there a lot of passives that can result in damage?

crit boosts for assassination passives, Stealth boosts for 10%, etc.

never will understand the artifical line between damage listed on recap separately from massive boosts like crits deliver which are added-in to the base powers.

To me, its how much damage you do and when and so forth - not how the recap lists it.

Don't forget 8% max magicka for nightblades. I'd take that over a 5% execute chance passive any day.

Some people want to pretend that one hit at full health means implosion procs left and right. That's asinine. It only triggers when you're almost dead anyways.

So you believe its ok and balanced for a sorc to passively grant you a 5 to 10k+ burst damage that finishes your target for you when I need to run an execute that requires me to physically activate an ability in order to do the same thing?

... it has a 5% proc chance. Statistically it needs to hit you twenty times at extremely low health to go off. You're either bad at math, or just hopelessly blubbering at this point with the e-tears everywhere.

Yeah I kind of laugh it off when it happens to me. I shrug, say "lucky shot", then res up. Most of the time when I die to it, I would have died with or without the implosion. So All he gets is a cool disintegrate animation out of it. And I have to admit, it is cool.

I'm aware of the proc chance, I run a medium armor dk so I get bursted down within that threshold that's procs implosion very often and have been killed by extremely high proced implosions. I will say this it happens far more frequent with stam sorcs. Usually with other classes I have an opportunity to roll dodge vigor rally I cant do that when the sorcs can passively execute me. Mind you it's an execute that you can not see thus 0 counter play. Again damage like that should be applied thru player intervention not freely given.

its 6% chance when you take damage at 15% health or less. if we assume 30k health thats 4500 health - proc dead so what?

My bet is the passive pen from light armor or the various medium armor passives have contributed more to your death than this 6% last legs kill proc does - heck the minor sorcery passive likely has.

just because it appears on your recap doesn't mean its why you died... many things more likely critical to your death dont show on recaps as separate items.

matter of fact, CCs are likely responsible for far more deaths if you really get down to it than implosion procs ever have and CC dont show on recaps damage lists at all.

but if you are spending enough time at <15% health that you are this animated about a 6% chance... my bet is really implosion is way way down on the list of things you should be focusing on.

Just because the last 15% of a fall passes by more quickly than the previous parts... doesn't mean that last 155 is what killed you or is responsible for your death.

I'm ok with buffs and debuffs contributing to my death as long as what kills me is a direct response to a players command. Why argu so hard on keeping a passive that supposably doesn't matter. Why not grant sorcs increase spell pen while I'm in that threshold at least in that case your character wouldn't passively finish your target or you.

Beardimus · January 2017

Daedric prey, how about that targets pets on Consoles?

Malamar1229 · January 2017

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Ball of Lightning needs another second or two added to the orb. With the cost increase of bolt escape, the timer is so short to be really effective and I have a feeling this skill will get more utilization with Homestead (when all the rerolls come back to magicka)

i wanna rebump this point for visibility.

Malamar1229 · January 2017

overload rework- cost 300 ultimate.
"overload your weapons with stored energy causing your attacks for next 6 seconds to deal an additional X shock damage"

SanTii.92 · January 2017

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Just wanted to thank everyone for all the feedback in this thread. We are going to be making tweaks to Velocious Curse for the next PTS build:
Velocious Curse – This morph will still cause an echo, but now the explosions will occur at 3.5s and 8.5s, instead of 6s and 12s

we got trolled so hard.. "instead of 6s and 12s" clearly means procs at 3.5s and 8.5s of initial cast. Still so salty for what would have been an awesome change. Now it feels clunky and out of place.

Minalan · January 2017

Malamar1229 wrote: »

overload rework- cost 300 ultimate.
"overload your weapons with stored energy causing your attacks for next 6 seconds to deal an additional X shock damage"

Nah, what they need to do is swap the damage between the overload heavy and light attacks. The AOE lightning from your fingers should hurt. ALOT.

TBH I rarely ever use an ultimate offensively, because the extra overload bar is just so GOOD.

STEVIL · January 2017

KramUzibra wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

KramUzibra wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

KramUzibra wrote: »

Mazoku_ wrote: »

I would like to start by thanking you *ZOS for retaining the 3.5 s burst for the haunting curse re work.
Now, i have always played magsorc pvp with a lighting staff. It's my playstyle and have always preferred it over flame or frost. And i know many other sorcs feel the same way.
Now with these new changes to the passives (flame staff increases damage with single target abilities) isn't this forcing all of us to use flame staff for pvp?
I mean who wouldn't want to squeeze the most dps out of their curse, execute , frags, and pulse?
I think it is taking away freedom of choice when it comes to your pvp staff and i believe thats wrong. Why should everyone be forced into using a staff they might not like just so they can remain competitive?

Minalan wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

KramUzibra wrote: »

NightSquirrel wrote: »

Stam sorcs should not be able to proc implosions, that is my two-cents.

They don't necessarily have to do anything except add a skill point in their class passives. Implosion just happens while they fight. If anything reduce the dmg to be comparable to an enchant around 2 thousand. Getting hit with 10k+ is way too powerful. Personally I don't think it should exist at all but I'll take a compromise if zos is willing.

Now correct me if i am wrong but arent there a lot of passives that can result in damage?

crit boosts for assassination passives, Stealth boosts for 10%, etc.

never will understand the artifical line between damage listed on recap separately from massive boosts like crits deliver which are added-in to the base powers.

To me, its how much damage you do and when and so forth - not how the recap lists it.

Don't forget 8% max magicka for nightblades. I'd take that over a 5% execute chance passive any day.

Some people want to pretend that one hit at full health means implosion procs left and right. That's asinine. It only triggers when you're almost dead anyways.

So you believe its ok and balanced for a sorc to passively grant you a 5 to 10k+ burst damage that finishes your target for you when I need to run an execute that requires me to physically activate an ability in order to do the same thing?

... it has a 5% proc chance. Statistically it needs to hit you twenty times at extremely low health to go off. You're either bad at math, or just hopelessly blubbering at this point with the e-tears everywhere.

Yeah I kind of laugh it off when it happens to me. I shrug, say "lucky shot", then res up. Most of the time when I die to it, I would have died with or without the implosion. So All he gets is a cool disintegrate animation out of it. And I have to admit, it is cool.

I'm aware of the proc chance, I run a medium armor dk so I get bursted down within that threshold that's procs implosion very often and have been killed by extremely high proced implosions. I will say this it happens far more frequent with stam sorcs. Usually with other classes I have an opportunity to roll dodge vigor rally I cant do that when the sorcs can passively execute me. Mind you it's an execute that you can not see thus 0 counter play. Again damage like that should be applied thru player intervention not freely given.

its 6% chance when you take damage at 15% health or less. if we assume 30k health thats 4500 health - proc dead so what?

My bet is the passive pen from light armor or the various medium armor passives have contributed more to your death than this 6% last legs kill proc does - heck the minor sorcery passive likely has.

just because it appears on your recap doesn't mean its why you died... many things more likely critical to your death dont show on recaps as separate items.

matter of fact, CCs are likely responsible for far more deaths if you really get down to it than implosion procs ever have and CC dont show on recaps damage lists at all.

but if you are spending enough time at <15% health that you are this animated about a 6% chance... my bet is really implosion is way way down on the list of things you should be focusing on.

Just because the last 15% of a fall passes by more quickly than the previous parts... doesn't mean that last 155 is what killed you or is responsible for your death.

I'm ok with buffs and debuffs contributing to my death as long as what kills me is a direct response to a players command. Why argu so hard on keeping a passive that supposably doesn't matter. Why not grant sorcs increase spell pen while I'm in that threshold at least in that case your character wouldn't passively finish your target or you.

for the record, i really could care less about implosion as a sorc. i hardly ever notice it.

Replace Implosion with OVERTIME and i would do a happy dance.

OVERTIME: An active toggled power can last fully active for 3s/6s after you swap to a bar where the toggle is not slotted. if you swap back to a bar where it is slotted before the overtime period elapses the toggled power continues without fail. if you dont swap back in time, the toggle power shuts down as normal.

but let me get this straight...

You drop to 15% health
The sorc hits you with a light attack.
Liquid lightning tics.
Implosions procs you die
You are not ok with that.

On the other hand...

You drop to 15% health
The sorc hits you with a light attack
implosion procs
Liquid lightning tics and you die
You are ok with that.

Do i have that right?

STEVIL · January 2017

Beardimus wrote: »

Daedric prey, how about that targets pets on Consoles?

IMO Dp should get the 12 double tap AND be a pet magnet - drawing pets to focus on that target.

KramUzibra · January 2017

STEVIL wrote: »

KramUzibra wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

KramUzibra wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

KramUzibra wrote: »

Mazoku_ wrote: »

I would like to start by thanking you *ZOS for retaining the 3.5 s burst for the haunting curse re work.
Now, i have always played magsorc pvp with a lighting staff. It's my playstyle and have always preferred it over flame or frost. And i know many other sorcs feel the same way.
Now with these new changes to the passives (flame staff increases damage with single target abilities) isn't this forcing all of us to use flame staff for pvp?
I mean who wouldn't want to squeeze the most dps out of their curse, execute , frags, and pulse?
I think it is taking away freedom of choice when it comes to your pvp staff and i believe thats wrong. Why should everyone be forced into using a staff they might not like just so they can remain competitive?

Minalan wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

KramUzibra wrote: »

NightSquirrel wrote: »

Stam sorcs should not be able to proc implosions, that is my two-cents.

They don't necessarily have to do anything except add a skill point in their class passives. Implosion just happens while they fight. If anything reduce the dmg to be comparable to an enchant around 2 thousand. Getting hit with 10k+ is way too powerful. Personally I don't think it should exist at all but I'll take a compromise if zos is willing.

Now correct me if i am wrong but arent there a lot of passives that can result in damage?

crit boosts for assassination passives, Stealth boosts for 10%, etc.

never will understand the artifical line between damage listed on recap separately from massive boosts like crits deliver which are added-in to the base powers.

To me, its how much damage you do and when and so forth - not how the recap lists it.

Don't forget 8% max magicka for nightblades. I'd take that over a 5% execute chance passive any day.

Some people want to pretend that one hit at full health means implosion procs left and right. That's asinine. It only triggers when you're almost dead anyways.

So you believe its ok and balanced for a sorc to passively grant you a 5 to 10k+ burst damage that finishes your target for you when I need to run an execute that requires me to physically activate an ability in order to do the same thing?

... it has a 5% proc chance. Statistically it needs to hit you twenty times at extremely low health to go off. You're either bad at math, or just hopelessly blubbering at this point with the e-tears everywhere.

Yeah I kind of laugh it off when it happens to me. I shrug, say "lucky shot", then res up. Most of the time when I die to it, I would have died with or without the implosion. So All he gets is a cool disintegrate animation out of it. And I have to admit, it is cool.

I'm aware of the proc chance, I run a medium armor dk so I get bursted down within that threshold that's procs implosion very often and have been killed by extremely high proced implosions. I will say this it happens far more frequent with stam sorcs. Usually with other classes I have an opportunity to roll dodge vigor rally I cant do that when the sorcs can passively execute me. Mind you it's an execute that you can not see thus 0 counter play. Again damage like that should be applied thru player intervention not freely given.

its 6% chance when you take damage at 15% health or less. if we assume 30k health thats 4500 health - proc dead so what?

My bet is the passive pen from light armor or the various medium armor passives have contributed more to your death than this 6% last legs kill proc does - heck the minor sorcery passive likely has.

just because it appears on your recap doesn't mean its why you died... many things more likely critical to your death dont show on recaps as separate items.

matter of fact, CCs are likely responsible for far more deaths if you really get down to it than implosion procs ever have and CC dont show on recaps damage lists at all.

but if you are spending enough time at <15% health that you are this animated about a 6% chance... my bet is really implosion is way way down on the list of things you should be focusing on.

Just because the last 15% of a fall passes by more quickly than the previous parts... doesn't mean that last 155 is what killed you or is responsible for your death.

I'm ok with buffs and debuffs contributing to my death as long as what kills me is a direct response to a players command. Why argu so hard on keeping a passive that supposably doesn't matter. Why not grant sorcs increase spell pen while I'm in that threshold at least in that case your character wouldn't passively finish your target or you.

for the record, i really could care less about implosion as a sorc. i hardly ever notice it.

Replace Implosion with OVERTIME and i would do a happy dance.

OVERTIME: An active toggled power can last fully active for 3s/6s after you swap to a bar where the toggle is not slotted. if you swap back to a bar where it is slotted before the overtime period elapses the toggled power continues without fail. if you dont swap back in time, the toggle power shuts down as normal.

but let me get this straight...
You drop to 15% health

The sorc hits you with a light attack.

Liquid lightning tics.

Implosions procs you die

You are not ok with that.

On the other hand...
You drop to 15% health

The sorc hits you with a light attack

implosion procs

Liquid lightning tics and you die

You are ok with that.

Do i have that right?

Umm no I'm not ok with implosion ever. I'm not ok with free no skill damage ie proc sets. Essentially implosion is like vipers, it's free damage and requires no skill to achieve it just happens.

SanTii.92 · January 2017

Why are you discussing so much about stuff that is not gonna happen on this pts cycle, instead of things that might change now?

Like, ehem, second proc at 8.5s from cast and not 12s

KramUzibra · January 2017

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Why are you discussing so much about stuff that is not gonna happen on this pts cycle, instead of things that might change now?

Like, ehem, second proc at 8.5s from cast and not 12s

Not my initial intent assure you

STEVIL · January 2017

KramUzibra wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

KramUzibra wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

KramUzibra wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

KramUzibra wrote: »

Mazoku_ wrote: »

I would like to start by thanking you *ZOS for retaining the 3.5 s burst for the haunting curse re work.
Now, i have always played magsorc pvp with a lighting staff. It's my playstyle and have always preferred it over flame or frost. And i know many other sorcs feel the same way.
Now with these new changes to the passives (flame staff increases damage with single target abilities) isn't this forcing all of us to use flame staff for pvp?
I mean who wouldn't want to squeeze the most dps out of their curse, execute , frags, and pulse?
I think it is taking away freedom of choice when it comes to your pvp staff and i believe thats wrong. Why should everyone be forced into using a staff they might not like just so they can remain competitive?

Minalan wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

KramUzibra wrote: »

NightSquirrel wrote: »

Stam sorcs should not be able to proc implosions, that is my two-cents.

They don't necessarily have to do anything except add a skill point in their class passives. Implosion just happens while they fight. If anything reduce the dmg to be comparable to an enchant around 2 thousand. Getting hit with 10k+ is way too powerful. Personally I don't think it should exist at all but I'll take a compromise if zos is willing.

Now correct me if i am wrong but arent there a lot of passives that can result in damage?

crit boosts for assassination passives, Stealth boosts for 10%, etc.

never will understand the artifical line between damage listed on recap separately from massive boosts like crits deliver which are added-in to the base powers.

To me, its how much damage you do and when and so forth - not how the recap lists it.

Don't forget 8% max magicka for nightblades. I'd take that over a 5% execute chance passive any day.

Some people want to pretend that one hit at full health means implosion procs left and right. That's asinine. It only triggers when you're almost dead anyways.

So you believe its ok and balanced for a sorc to passively grant you a 5 to 10k+ burst damage that finishes your target for you when I need to run an execute that requires me to physically activate an ability in order to do the same thing?

... it has a 5% proc chance. Statistically it needs to hit you twenty times at extremely low health to go off. You're either bad at math, or just hopelessly blubbering at this point with the e-tears everywhere.

Yeah I kind of laugh it off when it happens to me. I shrug, say "lucky shot", then res up. Most of the time when I die to it, I would have died with or without the implosion. So All he gets is a cool disintegrate animation out of it. And I have to admit, it is cool.

I'm aware of the proc chance, I run a medium armor dk so I get bursted down within that threshold that's procs implosion very often and have been killed by extremely high proced implosions. I will say this it happens far more frequent with stam sorcs. Usually with other classes I have an opportunity to roll dodge vigor rally I cant do that when the sorcs can passively execute me. Mind you it's an execute that you can not see thus 0 counter play. Again damage like that should be applied thru player intervention not freely given.

its 6% chance when you take damage at 15% health or less. if we assume 30k health thats 4500 health - proc dead so what?

My bet is the passive pen from light armor or the various medium armor passives have contributed more to your death than this 6% last legs kill proc does - heck the minor sorcery passive likely has.

just because it appears on your recap doesn't mean its why you died... many things more likely critical to your death dont show on recaps as separate items.

matter of fact, CCs are likely responsible for far more deaths if you really get down to it than implosion procs ever have and CC dont show on recaps damage lists at all.

but if you are spending enough time at <15% health that you are this animated about a 6% chance... my bet is really implosion is way way down on the list of things you should be focusing on.

Just because the last 15% of a fall passes by more quickly than the previous parts... doesn't mean that last 155 is what killed you or is responsible for your death.

I'm ok with buffs and debuffs contributing to my death as long as what kills me is a direct response to a players command. Why argu so hard on keeping a passive that supposably doesn't matter. Why not grant sorcs increase spell pen while I'm in that threshold at least in that case your character wouldn't passively finish your target or you.

for the record, i really could care less about implosion as a sorc. i hardly ever notice it.

Replace Implosion with OVERTIME and i would do a happy dance.

OVERTIME: An active toggled power can last fully active for 3s/6s after you swap to a bar where the toggle is not slotted. if you swap back to a bar where it is slotted before the overtime period elapses the toggled power continues without fail. if you dont swap back in time, the toggle power shuts down as normal.

but let me get this straight...
You drop to 15% health

The sorc hits you with a light attack.

Liquid lightning tics.

Implosions procs you die

You are not ok with that.

On the other hand...
You drop to 15% health

The sorc hits you with a light attack

implosion procs

Liquid lightning tics and you die

You are ok with that.

Do i have that right?

Umm no I'm not ok with implosion ever. I'm not ok with free no skill damage ie proc sets. Essentially implosion is like vipers, it's free damage and requires no skill to achieve it just happens.

So now this is new...

so, if you die from the fourth tick from hurricane criting due to boosted crit chance from passives, thats fine - the damage wouldn't be listed as "from the set" but from that hurricane tick.

But if you die from that same tick triggering the implosion, where the damage is shown as implosion not just more hurricane, thats not ok cuz that damage came from a passive.

is that right?

To me:
Both came into effect due to the tick from the hurricane hitting you.
Both did damage to you that wouldn't have been done without the passive (crit on the tick and implosion on the other) that the attacker had spent skills to unlock.
The only real difference is that implosion is listed separately as implosion damage while the extra crits all thru the fight are listed just on the regular recap.

So that is where we differ.

Gothren · January 2017

Joy_Division wrote: »

[*] Storm Atronach needs to move.: Whatever thought process was involved in the original decision to make them immobile has been amply debunked after nearly three years. I still think this is underwhelming for a 200 cost ultimate, I would combine the two morphs.

iv been saying this for a long time. id rather have a morph where it can move but without the damage buff. so many other great aoe ultimates to run and the aoe atro is just too weak for practical use.

STEVIL · January 2017

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Why are you discussing so much about stuff that is not gonna happen on this pts cycle, instead of things that might change now?

Like, ehem, second proc at 8.5s from cast and not 12s

uhh... Ok so there have been lotsa posts about 8.5s v 12s already this week since the issue got ferretted out and what do you think us repeating those points again will accomplish?

is there some secret new info about 8.5 v 12 that has changed since yesterday?

or have the rules of mathematics been altered since the oath was taken in DC?

if not then are we still at:
First boom at 3.5s.
Second boom seems to be at 12 which matches one post but mismatches another and some think that BOOST to the power many said was fine without it at all is BAD and some think its fine and some think its Op... just like yesterday?

is there really that much more that needs to be said when:
The original 6-12 nerf to burst boost to sustain got lotsa "it was fine as is".
They reverted it back and ADDED the second tick making it as good for burst or better for some sustain but the player can choose in play whether to recast or wait the second tick. plenty were "hey its ok now again better ok"

So now that it might be 12s or 8.5s added boom there needs to be lotsa posts and discussion about the degree to which the "was Ok before" skill gets some optional sustain added at maybe 8.5 but maybe 12?

Really?

Reverting to 3.5 was big and key and important. it deserved discussion and got plenty of thanks.

Whether the double whammy they added was an 8.5s or a 12s second hit option, seriously, is not a big deal. It wont matter much for burst cuz it wont be used and for sustain its small difference.

nobody will lose sleep over 8.5 v 12 second whammy.

Now, if they gave the double whammy to Daedric Prey, thats a significant change and so far no indication thats happening which prolly means you dont want that discussed here either. (Should also get "pet magnet" added to Dp but that also not seen in PTS so off limits i guess?)

STEVIL · January 2017

KramUzibra wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Why are you discussing so much about stuff that is not gonna happen on this pts cycle, instead of things that might change now?

Like, ehem, second proc at 8.5s from cast and not 12s

Not my initial intent assure you

For me, any post i make, it is absolutely my intent.
Barring the occasional misstatement or typo its not anyone else's fault i posted.
i am not Flip Wilson and the devil doesn't make me do things.

:-)

KramUzibra · January 2017

STEVIL wrote: »

KramUzibra wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

KramUzibra wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

KramUzibra wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

KramUzibra wrote: »

Mazoku_ wrote: »

I would like to start by thanking you *ZOS for retaining the 3.5 s burst for the haunting curse re work.
Now, i have always played magsorc pvp with a lighting staff. It's my playstyle and have always preferred it over flame or frost. And i know many other sorcs feel the same way.
Now with these new changes to the passives (flame staff increases damage with single target abilities) isn't this forcing all of us to use flame staff for pvp?
I mean who wouldn't want to squeeze the most dps out of their curse, execute , frags, and pulse?
I think it is taking away freedom of choice when it comes to your pvp staff and i believe thats wrong. Why should everyone be forced into using a staff they might not like just so they can remain competitive?

Minalan wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

KramUzibra wrote: »

NightSquirrel wrote: »

Stam sorcs should not be able to proc implosions, that is my two-cents.

They don't necessarily have to do anything except add a skill point in their class passives. Implosion just happens while they fight. If anything reduce the dmg to be comparable to an enchant around 2 thousand. Getting hit with 10k+ is way too powerful. Personally I don't think it should exist at all but I'll take a compromise if zos is willing.

Now correct me if i am wrong but arent there a lot of passives that can result in damage?

crit boosts for assassination passives, Stealth boosts for 10%, etc.

never will understand the artifical line between damage listed on recap separately from massive boosts like crits deliver which are added-in to the base powers.

To me, its how much damage you do and when and so forth - not how the recap lists it.

Don't forget 8% max magicka for nightblades. I'd take that over a 5% execute chance passive any day.

Some people want to pretend that one hit at full health means implosion procs left and right. That's asinine. It only triggers when you're almost dead anyways.

So you believe its ok and balanced for a sorc to passively grant you a 5 to 10k+ burst damage that finishes your target for you when I need to run an execute that requires me to physically activate an ability in order to do the same thing?

... it has a 5% proc chance. Statistically it needs to hit you twenty times at extremely low health to go off. You're either bad at math, or just hopelessly blubbering at this point with the e-tears everywhere.

Yeah I kind of laugh it off when it happens to me. I shrug, say "lucky shot", then res up. Most of the time when I die to it, I would have died with or without the implosion. So All he gets is a cool disintegrate animation out of it. And I have to admit, it is cool.

I'm aware of the proc chance, I run a medium armor dk so I get bursted down within that threshold that's procs implosion very often and have been killed by extremely high proced implosions. I will say this it happens far more frequent with stam sorcs. Usually with other classes I have an opportunity to roll dodge vigor rally I cant do that when the sorcs can passively execute me. Mind you it's an execute that you can not see thus 0 counter play. Again damage like that should be applied thru player intervention not freely given.

its 6% chance when you take damage at 15% health or less. if we assume 30k health thats 4500 health - proc dead so what?

My bet is the passive pen from light armor or the various medium armor passives have contributed more to your death than this 6% last legs kill proc does - heck the minor sorcery passive likely has.

just because it appears on your recap doesn't mean its why you died... many things more likely critical to your death dont show on recaps as separate items.

matter of fact, CCs are likely responsible for far more deaths if you really get down to it than implosion procs ever have and CC dont show on recaps damage lists at all.

but if you are spending enough time at <15% health that you are this animated about a 6% chance... my bet is really implosion is way way down on the list of things you should be focusing on.

Just because the last 15% of a fall passes by more quickly than the previous parts... doesn't mean that last 155 is what killed you or is responsible for your death.

I'm ok with buffs and debuffs contributing to my death as long as what kills me is a direct response to a players command. Why argu so hard on keeping a passive that supposably doesn't matter. Why not grant sorcs increase spell pen while I'm in that threshold at least in that case your character wouldn't passively finish your target or you.

for the record, i really could care less about implosion as a sorc. i hardly ever notice it.

Replace Implosion with OVERTIME and i would do a happy dance.

OVERTIME: An active toggled power can last fully active for 3s/6s after you swap to a bar where the toggle is not slotted. if you swap back to a bar where it is slotted before the overtime period elapses the toggled power continues without fail. if you dont swap back in time, the toggle power shuts down as normal.

but let me get this straight...
You drop to 15% health

The sorc hits you with a light attack.

Liquid lightning tics.

Implosions procs you die

You are not ok with that.

On the other hand...
You drop to 15% health

The sorc hits you with a light attack

implosion procs

Liquid lightning tics and you die

You are ok with that.

Do i have that right?

Umm no I'm not ok with implosion ever. I'm not ok with free no skill damage ie proc sets. Essentially implosion is like vipers, it's free damage and requires no skill to achieve it just happens.

So now this is new...

so, if you die from the fourth tick from hurricane criting due to boosted crit chance from passives, thats fine - the damage wouldn't be listed as "from the set" but from that hurricane tick.

But if you die from that same tick triggering the implosion, where the damage is shown as implosion not just more hurricane, thats not ok cuz that damage came from a passive.

is that right?

To me:
Both came into effect due to the tick from the hurricane hitting you.
Both did damage to you that wouldn't have been done without the passive (crit on the tick and implosion on the other) that the attacker had spent skills to unlock.
The only real difference is that implosion is listed separately as implosion damage while the extra crits all thru the fight are listed just on the regular recap.

So that is where we differ.

...Sure

Minalan · January 2017

saten wrote: »

Istill worth rolling a stamsorc?

They didn't nerf Dark Deal or Streak. So it's very much worth it.

You lose a little damage on hurricane, but it's still there at the same radius revealing nightblades and making hidden players everywhere miserable.

STEVIL · January 2017

KramUzibra wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

KramUzibra wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

KramUzibra wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

KramUzibra wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

KramUzibra wrote: »

Mazoku_ wrote: »

I would like to start by thanking you *ZOS for retaining the 3.5 s burst for the haunting curse re work.
Now, i have always played magsorc pvp with a lighting staff. It's my playstyle and have always preferred it over flame or frost. And i know many other sorcs feel the same way.
Now with these new changes to the passives (flame staff increases damage with single target abilities) isn't this forcing all of us to use flame staff for pvp?
I mean who wouldn't want to squeeze the most dps out of their curse, execute , frags, and pulse?
I think it is taking away freedom of choice when it comes to your pvp staff and i believe thats wrong. Why should everyone be forced into using a staff they might not like just so they can remain competitive?

Minalan wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

KramUzibra wrote: »

NightSquirrel wrote: »

Stam sorcs should not be able to proc implosions, that is my two-cents.

They don't necessarily have to do anything except add a skill point in their class passives. Implosion just happens while they fight. If anything reduce the dmg to be comparable to an enchant around 2 thousand. Getting hit with 10k+ is way too powerful. Personally I don't think it should exist at all but I'll take a compromise if zos is willing.

Now correct me if i am wrong but arent there a lot of passives that can result in damage?

crit boosts for assassination passives, Stealth boosts for 10%, etc.

never will understand the artifical line between damage listed on recap separately from massive boosts like crits deliver which are added-in to the base powers.

To me, its how much damage you do and when and so forth - not how the recap lists it.

Don't forget 8% max magicka for nightblades. I'd take that over a 5% execute chance passive any day.

Some people want to pretend that one hit at full health means implosion procs left and right. That's asinine. It only triggers when you're almost dead anyways.

So you believe its ok and balanced for a sorc to passively grant you a 5 to 10k+ burst damage that finishes your target for you when I need to run an execute that requires me to physically activate an ability in order to do the same thing?

... it has a 5% proc chance. Statistically it needs to hit you twenty times at extremely low health to go off. You're either bad at math, or just hopelessly blubbering at this point with the e-tears everywhere.

Yeah I kind of laugh it off when it happens to me. I shrug, say "lucky shot", then res up. Most of the time when I die to it, I would have died with or without the implosion. So All he gets is a cool disintegrate animation out of it. And I have to admit, it is cool.

I'm aware of the proc chance, I run a medium armor dk so I get bursted down within that threshold that's procs implosion very often and have been killed by extremely high proced implosions. I will say this it happens far more frequent with stam sorcs. Usually with other classes I have an opportunity to roll dodge vigor rally I cant do that when the sorcs can passively execute me. Mind you it's an execute that you can not see thus 0 counter play. Again damage like that should be applied thru player intervention not freely given.

its 6% chance when you take damage at 15% health or less. if we assume 30k health thats 4500 health - proc dead so what?

My bet is the passive pen from light armor or the various medium armor passives have contributed more to your death than this 6% last legs kill proc does - heck the minor sorcery passive likely has.

just because it appears on your recap doesn't mean its why you died... many things more likely critical to your death dont show on recaps as separate items.

matter of fact, CCs are likely responsible for far more deaths if you really get down to it than implosion procs ever have and CC dont show on recaps damage lists at all.

but if you are spending enough time at <15% health that you are this animated about a 6% chance... my bet is really implosion is way way down on the list of things you should be focusing on.

Just because the last 15% of a fall passes by more quickly than the previous parts... doesn't mean that last 155 is what killed you or is responsible for your death.

I'm ok with buffs and debuffs contributing to my death as long as what kills me is a direct response to a players command. Why argu so hard on keeping a passive that supposably doesn't matter. Why not grant sorcs increase spell pen while I'm in that threshold at least in that case your character wouldn't passively finish your target or you.

for the record, i really could care less about implosion as a sorc. i hardly ever notice it.

Replace Implosion with OVERTIME and i would do a happy dance.

OVERTIME: An active toggled power can last fully active for 3s/6s after you swap to a bar where the toggle is not slotted. if you swap back to a bar where it is slotted before the overtime period elapses the toggled power continues without fail. if you dont swap back in time, the toggle power shuts down as normal.

but let me get this straight...
You drop to 15% health

The sorc hits you with a light attack.

Liquid lightning tics.

Implosions procs you die

You are not ok with that.

On the other hand...
You drop to 15% health

The sorc hits you with a light attack

implosion procs

Liquid lightning tics and you die

You are ok with that.

Do i have that right?

Umm no I'm not ok with implosion ever. I'm not ok with free no skill damage ie proc sets. Essentially implosion is like vipers, it's free damage and requires no skill to achieve it just happens.

So now this is new...

so, if you die from the fourth tick from hurricane criting due to boosted crit chance from passives, thats fine - the damage wouldn't be listed as "from the set" but from that hurricane tick.

But if you die from that same tick triggering the implosion, where the damage is shown as implosion not just more hurricane, thats not ok cuz that damage came from a passive.

is that right?

To me:
Both came into effect due to the tick from the hurricane hitting you.
Both did damage to you that wouldn't have been done without the passive (crit on the tick and implosion on the other) that the attacker had spent skills to unlock.
The only real difference is that implosion is listed separately as implosion damage while the extra crits all thru the fight are listed just on the regular recap.

So that is where we differ.

...Sure

great!

DragonBound · January 2017

Minalan wrote: »

saten wrote: »

Istill worth rolling a stamsorc?

They didn't nerf Dark Deal or Streak. So it's very much worth it.

You lose a little damage on hurricane, but it's still there at the same radius revealing nightblades and making hidden players everywhere miserable.

The dps seems to be still worth it but I will admit I think the nerf might be overkill, has anyone tested stam hurricane yet?

Izaki · January 2017

So guys, does the new Curse explode first at 3.5 seconds and then at 8.5 or 12?

If it explodes at 12, ZOS has actually made the Sorc rotation much harder in PvE on consoles because we don't have buff trackers. So knowing that there are around 2-3 sorcs in a trial + all the visual effects, you don't actually see the explosions, its just muscle memory for the Curse recast. Now however, its much harder to keep track of a 8.5 sec interval between the explosions. So they did the exact opposite of what they wanted to do. Sure it increases DPS, but without a buff tracker it will be crazy hard to time it.

Dracane · January 2017

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

So guys, does the new Curse explode first at 3.5 seconds and then at 8.5 or 12?

If it explodes at 12, ZOS has actually made the Sorc rotation much harder in PvE on consoles because we don't have buff trackers. So knowing that there are around 2-3 sorcs in a trial + all the visual effects, you don't actually see the explosions, its just muscle memory for the Curse recast. Now however, its much harder to keep track of a 8.5 sec interval between the explosions. So they did the exact opposite of what they wanted to do. Sure it increases DPS, but without a buff tracker it will be crazy hard to time it.

The first one after 3,5 seconds and the second one 8,5 seconds after the first explosion.
So 3,5 and 12s after the cast.

psychotic13 · January 2017

Well that sucks I was really hoping for a 3.5s curse and another explosion 5s later, I thought that's what rich said, I know the patch notes said differently

SwaminoNowlino · January 2017

Good point on the Daedric Prey, console players have no way to control their pets. Make it add like a taunt debuff on the enemy, where the enemy that has prey casted on it taunts your pets.

Tonturri · January 2017

On Implosion, since I see a guy up near the top of the page whining about it - I think the current implementation is quite horrid but in the current incarnation if it pops up that's on you. Imo. I've written up a post in another game's forum about 'combat consistency', where generally you can expect the same amount of difficulty/results/etc from pull to pull...aka things that rarely proc during a fight - or every couple fights - are bad combat design (Implooosion). It's a chance - a very small chance - for me to instantly kill whatever I'm fighting when they're below 15% (the ridiculously low health % requirement aside...)

A while ago I sent in a ticket suggestion. It was as follows.
- There's math that can be done in order to adjust the proc chance, health threshhold and proc-damage. Adjust it such that the proc chance is 30%, health threshold is 33%. Lower the proc damage so that it gives the same DPS as the current incarnation (something-somethingPvE-something). Have the proc damage scale off health. Have it do 1% of proc damage when target is at 33% health, and have it scale linearly between 33%-0%. Something like that. I've always imagined it as a scaling weapon enchantment/execute for added pressure. Added pressure while fighting, mind, something my opponent notices and goes 'oh dear, I should keep my health a little higher', not 'well...he got lucky and I died instantly, gg'.

Or they could just make it a 'Gain x% lightning damage bonus based on damage done/whateveritscalesoffof on next ability after a fully charged heavy attack. Encourage people to do more heavy atttacks + give a little burst afterwards, then nerf dark deal or something.

Again, there's likely math that can be done in order to ensure the DPS output is the same. I'm not going to do it (I did it in the ticket but I didn't make a log of the damn thing and I'm not gonna do it again). The above percentages are just placeholders. Kindly do not disregard this post because the percentages and proc chances and whatever were pulled out of my ass, or because the current meta is something or other and ZOS is slow to deal with or...Yeah. I just want this passive to be useful, I like it ;-; I do believe I've gotten the gist of my idea across. Anyway, the goal is to
1) Ensure PvE dps remains the same.
2) Give the passive a consistent presence in fights - seeing it pop up every 3-4 fights in PvP is ridiculous. Magblades don't get their 8% magicka once every 4 fights, nor does battle roar only work on the 4th person you use it on.Again, I'd like my character's strength/damage output/performance to be consistent through each fight, especially since this passive is(could be) stronger than most other passives.
3) Make the passive actually...useful (in PvP - I'm aware it is useful in PvE)? It's a lovely passive, but I don't think I've ever seen a build that actually utilizes it**. The thing is just...there, and you go 'oh well lookie that, I'm lucky today' when it procs and saves you the button press of killing the person (who was going to die anyway no matter what you did so really nothing much changed)
4) But not too strong. We don't want to end up with basically Viper, but in class passive form. Hence the 'scale dmg off health' thing. And maybe nerf the damage a bit, or have it not proc off dots - only direct hits.

**Wait hold on I think I saw one person ever actually use the passive. A heavy, DW stam sorc. DW passive + Flurry multi hit + dots gave them decently reliable procs, if I recall correctly, but that's it.

TLDR Implosion right now is stupid and it really irritates me. There's a game from 10 YEARS ago that uses a similar 'super super low proc chance, procs once every couple of fights' type deal, but why ESO is using it I will never know. Plz change. I sad that PTS come and go without a change to this.

DragonBound · January 2017

Tonturri wrote: »

On Implosion, since I see a guy up near the top of the page whining about it - I think the current implementation is quite horrid but in the current incarnation if it pops up that's on you. Imo. I've written up a post in another game's forum about 'combat consistency', where generally you can expect the same amount of difficulty/results/etc from pull to pull...aka things that rarely proc during a fight - or every couple fights - are bad combat design (Implooosion). It's a chance - a very small chance - for me to instantly kill whatever I'm fighting when they're below 15% (the ridiculously low health % requirement aside...)

A while ago I sent in a ticket suggestion. It was as follows.
- There's math that can be done in order to adjust the proc chance, health threshhold and proc-damage. Adjust it such that the proc chance is 30%, health threshold is 33%. Lower the proc damage so that it gives the same DPS as the current incarnation (something-somethingPvE-something). Have the proc damage scale off health. Have it do 1% of proc damage when target is at 33% health, and have it scale linearly between 33%-0%. Something like that. I've always imagined it as a scaling weapon enchantment/execute for added pressure. Added pressure while fighting, mind, something my opponent notices and goes 'oh dear, I should keep my health a little higher', not 'well...he got lucky and I died instantly, gg'.

Or they could just make it a 'Gain x% lightning damage bonus based on damage done/whateveritscalesoffof on next ability after a fully charged heavy attack. Encourage people to do more heavy atttacks + give a little burst afterwards, then nerf dark deal or something.

Again, there's likely math that can be done in order to ensure the DPS output is the same. I'm not going to do it (I did it in the ticket but I didn't make a log of the damn thing and I'm not gonna do it again). The above percentages are just placeholders. Kindly do not disregard this post because the percentages and proc chances and whatever were pulled out of my ass, or because the current meta is something or other and ZOS is slow to deal with or...Yeah. I just want this passive to be useful, I like it ;-; I do believe I've gotten the gist of my idea across. Anyway, the goal is to
1) Ensure PvE dps remains the same.
2) Give the passive a consistent presence in fights - seeing it pop up every 3-4 fights in PvP is ridiculous. Magblades don't get their 8% magicka once every 4 fights, nor does battle roar only work on the 4th person you use it on.Again, I'd like my character's strength/damage output/performance to be consistent through each fight, especially since this passive is(could be) stronger than most other passives.
3) Make the passive actually...useful (in PvP - I'm aware it is useful in PvE)? It's a lovely passive, but I don't think I've ever seen a build that actually utilizes it**. The thing is just...there, and you go 'oh well lookie that, I'm lucky today' when it procs and saves you the button press of killing the person (who was going to die anyway no matter what you did so really nothing much changed)
4) But not too strong. We don't want to end up with basically Viper, but in class passive form. Hence the 'scale dmg off health' thing. And maybe nerf the damage a bit, or have it not proc off dots - only direct hits.

**Wait hold on I think I saw one person ever actually use the passive. A heavy, DW stam sorc. DW passive + Flurry multi hit + dots gave them decently reliable procs, if I recall correctly, but that's it.

TLDR Implosion right now is stupid and it really irritates me. There's a game from 10 YEARS ago that uses a similar 'super super low proc chance, procs once every couple of fights' type deal, but why ESO is using it I will never know. Plz change. I sad that PTS come and go without a change to this.

Yep, the chance for it to proc is 6 percent, not much to be honest.

Lord-Otto · January 2017

psychotic13 wrote: »

Well that sucks I was really hoping for a 3.5s curse and another explosion 5s later, I thought that's what rich said, I know the patch notes said differently

No, they didn't. People just didn't read right.
I don't think anything will change. 3.5 explosions still net more dps, so...

Tethalion · January 2017

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Hello.

I think sorcerer should have at least 1 morph of one of their ultimates be physical based. Every class has at least one and I believe it falls in line with the "every class can play every build" vision that ZoS ESO has always tried to project. I don't really care or mind which one it is (though I think negate magic kind of makes sense for a non-magic build. Or perhaps Overload can reflect the mystic-knight / battle-mage archetype), I just think there should be at least one, since every other class has one.

I understand that sorcerers are typically magic, and that's cool. But given the clear wish for ZoS ESO to have a design where "your class doesn't define you" so sorcerer can be physical and knights can be magical, I think at least 1 morph is needed to do physical damage. Once again, every other class has this option, whether players as a whole choose to use it or not.

Cheers.

Morgul667 · January 2017

Thanks for the reverse on curse, appreciated.

Wonder what a good build / stuff will be with this update for sorcerer ;/ any good idea on what to farm ? burning spellweave ?