PTS Feedback Thread for Sorcerer Balance Improvements

xblackroxe

Minalan wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

One thing that needs to happen imo, is Crystal Fragment/Shard: The speed of the projectile needs to be increased by atleast 20%+ Atm its the slowed moving projectile and extremely easy to avoid/dodge.

That's the balance part... the damage on it is pretty high on the ability. The speed is the counter play. It can be blocked, dodged, or reflected mid-flight.

We're not nightblades. We don't do one second kills and come here and tell everyone how bad we NEED it...

Lol seems like somebody hot killed by a nb. How sad

Derra

Minalan wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Hexys wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Just wanted to thank everyone for all the feedback in this thread. We are going to be making tweaks to Velocious Curse for the next PTS build:

• Velocious Curse – This morph will still cause an echo, but now the explosions will occur at 3.5s and 8.5s, instead of 6s and 12s

YES YES YES THANK YOU

Sorc are gonne be so insanely op ._.

Only because of the 8% destro staff passive and eye of the storm. Otherwise, it's not much different than we have now. A 3.5 second curse? Got that on live.

We'll see how it plays, but somehow I doubt magicka sorc is going to be the problem with ice staff blocking templars a thing.

8% more dmg.
unreflectable (1h shield ulti is a big thing atm) pulse/shock
curse now the highest singletarget "dot" in the game

Sorc wasn´t in a bad spot.
Now i get an 8% dmg buff to the already high dmg.
I get an absolutely insane buff to my main burst ability that also still allows me to backbar it and use it at 100% efficiency - which lets me use another ability on frontbar.
I get the ability to keep pressure people through reflect with 75% of my dps rotation being unreflectable (curse finisher pulse).

I think when looking at their 1 tamriel performance compared to what they get with homestead sorc gets buffed the most.

psychotic13

Derra wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Hexys wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Just wanted to thank everyone for all the feedback in this thread. We are going to be making tweaks to Velocious Curse for the next PTS build:

• Velocious Curse – This morph will still cause an echo, but now the explosions will occur at 3.5s and 8.5s, instead of 6s and 12s

YES YES YES THANK YOU

Sorc are gonne be so insanely op ._.

Only because of the 8% destro staff passive and eye of the storm. Otherwise, it's not much different than we have now. A 3.5 second curse? Got that on live.

We'll see how it plays, but somehow I doubt magicka sorc is going to be the problem with ice staff blocking templars a thing.

8% more dmg.
unreflectable (1h shield ulti is a big thing atm) pulse/shock
curse now the highest singletarget "dot" in the game

Sorc wasn´t in a bad spot.
Now i get an 8% dmg buff to the already high dmg.
I get an absolutely insane buff to my main burst ability that also still allows me to backbar it and use it at 100% efficiency - which lets me use another ability on frontbar.
I get the ability to keep pressure people through reflect with 75% of my dps rotation being unreflectable (curse finisher pulse).

I think when looking at their 1 tamriel performance compared to what they get with homestead sorc gets buffed the most.

Myself and several others backbar curse anyway, so no difference for us. The destro passives buff magicka across the board not just sorc, this was their way of bringing magicka up to par with stamina and proc sets. Though I use DW anyway so is irrelevant to me.

Minalan

xblackroxe wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

One thing that needs to happen imo, is Crystal Fragment/Shard: The speed of the projectile needs to be increased by atleast 20%+ Atm its the slowed moving projectile and extremely easy to avoid/dodge.

That's the balance part... the damage on it is pretty high on the ability. The speed is the counter play. It can be blocked, dodged, or reflected mid-flight.

We're not nightblades. We don't do one second kills and come here and tell everyone how bad we NEED it...

Lol seems like somebody hot killed by a nb. How sad

Aww. Did the poor night blade proc set and incap get a nerf?

Even more sad.

Derra wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Hexys wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Just wanted to thank everyone for all the feedback in this thread. We are going to be making tweaks to Velocious Curse for the next PTS build:

• Velocious Curse – This morph will still cause an echo, but now the explosions will occur at 3.5s and 8.5s, instead of 6s and 12s

YES YES YES THANK YOU

Sorc are gonne be so insanely op ._.

Only because of the 8% destro staff passive and eye of the storm. Otherwise, it's not much different than we have now. A 3.5 second curse? Got that on live.

We'll see how it plays, but somehow I doubt magicka sorc is going to be the problem with ice staff blocking templars a thing.

8% more dmg.
unreflectable (1h shield ulti is a big thing atm) pulse/shock
curse now the highest singletarget "dot" in the game

Sorc wasn´t in a bad spot.
Now i get an 8% dmg buff to the already high dmg.
I get an absolutely insane buff to my main burst ability that also still allows me to backbar it and use it at 100% efficiency - which lets me use another ability on frontbar.
I get the ability to keep pressure people through reflect with 75% of my dps rotation being unreflectable (curse finisher pulse).

I think when looking at their 1 tamriel performance compared to what they get with homestead sorc gets buffed the most.

Destro wielding night blades, DK's and templars get that 8% too. I think that's over the top, but I'm a dual wield user. The devs are trying to balance swords and sword/shield against destro setups.

Yes. Destro was THAT bad and far behind, to the point where nearly every decent sorc canned their staves, and hardly any DK's used them. Now they will, since 8% damage is competitive with another set piece.

Dracane

I agree, Destro Staff was long overdue for buffs. It received the most nerfs out of all weapon lines over the years, was about time that it gets something.

Masty_Spy

MANASOCR IS SAVED! AKATOSH bless the ZoS!

Jsmalls

old_mufasa wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

Every other magicka class also saw buffs, so whats the problem? Sorc will be more powerful, due to global changes, but the whole point of this patch was to make magicka builds stronger.

I'm sorry.. what world do you live in?

Magblades got a 38% increase in there main spam costs with NO buffs at all... and got a damage buff to there AOE skill that still lags behind elemental blockade and other class aoe.. but at least its not a total waste to cast now...so one nerf and one change that brings up a skill to just under par with other mage class dps... oh but lets not for get the fact that we are talking about one of the lowest dps class in pve as well...

Dragon knights got 5% increase to there spam.. and fixs to some skill some of that hardly used anyhow.. but totally ignored they main issue.. that dragon knight magic skills are way more expensive then anyone else and it was totally ignored.. and they had promised major changes to the class.. I don't call getting 5% whip change and nurfing our standard major buffs.. or fixing chains to work and dragon leap to work..
.
The staff changes are nice.. don't get me wrong.. but that's a buff across all mage class's

Over all Id say sorcs made out like bandits this patch..

The only "buff" we recieved (directed at our class) is the VC one. I wouldn't say it's a damage increase (in PvP, I know it is in PvE) because we burst, we don't really do sustained DPS. It's a sustain buff I'll agree with that (but what good Sorc was running out of resources anyways??).

I just don't see how we "made out like bandits" when the only thing that really happened is they didn't destroy Curse.

I'll agree that the 8% single target damage increase for inferno builds, along with the nerfs to Stamina this update will probably make Mag Sorcs (a class that is pretty heavily tied to said staff) a very strong option. As long as you can manage your 6 second shields, and wearing light armor which I know I have absolutely mastered.

Finisherofwar

Endless fury should be the next sorc move the team pay attention to, for the extremely low requirement of 20% health it has to proc explosion it really doesn't do enough damage or have enough utility in PvP to justify the requirement. I would like to see one of the following changes to it to make it more competitive when compared to other executes. 1: Up the percentage to execute to 25% to make it more like nightblade execute

2: Up the stored execute explosion from 4 seconds to 6 to allow for better combing potential

3: Change the other morph Mages wrath to do more damage on base move not explosion.

Is sorc execute bad as it is now? Not necessarily but it is pretty petty when compared to other executes because it has such a ridiculously low health requirement to cause explosion and gets no increasing percentages like pretty much all other executes have. It's damage is not as high as other executes and on top of that it can be dodged. When compared to radiant or two hander or nightblade execute or... pretty much any execute it leaves much to be desired.

ku5h

Ishammael wrote: »

Wow, talking about folding like a cheap suit.

If they dont listen to our feedback, its bad. Now that they do listen, its again bad. Am i on the right track?

CyrusArya

Finisherofwar wrote: »

Endless fury should be the next sorc move the team pay attention to, for the extremely low requirement of 20% health it has to proc explosion it really doesn't do enough damage or have enough utility in PvP to justify the requirement.

lol, no. Endless fury is one of the most powerful skills in the game due to the synergy it has with the sorc class. If you are trying to use it as you do other executes, applying it when the enemy is in execute range, you're using it wrong. It's a delayed execute, like a ticking time bomb of sorts. You apply it in anticipation of dropping an enemy below 20% while it is active, and then you get a massive instant burst stacked on top of whatever burst procs it. Its a very powerful skill and feels so damn good now after they made it more responsive. Niether this skill nor any other skill in the sorcs offensive rotation needs buffing, nerfing, or tweaking. Everything is perfectly good as is, my opinion of course.

What sorc needs is more utility and diversity in their kit. More viable skills to choose from so that every meta sorc doesn't run the exact same skill load out. We need a rework of pets so that they aren't toggles and then maybe they will see some use. But curse, frags, fury? These are in a good spot and need no tweaking.

Ragnaroek93

I would lie if I say that I'm not happy about the changes, but to be honest, this sounds pretty broken in my opinion. Would have preferred something to break roots and snares.

Berenhir

CyrusArya wrote: »

Finisherofwar wrote: »

Endless fury should be the next sorc move the team pay attention to, for the extremely low requirement of 20% health it has to proc explosion it really doesn't do enough damage or have enough utility in PvP to justify the requirement.

lol, no. Endless fury is one of the most powerful skills in the game due to the synergy it has with the sorc class. If you are trying to use it as you do other executes, applying it when the enemy is in execute range, you're using it wrong. It's a delayed execute, like a ticking time bomb of sorts. You apply it in anticipation of dropping an enemy below 20% while it is active, and then you get a massive instant burst stacked on top of whatever burst procs it. Its a very powerful skill and feels so damn good now after they made it more responsive. Niether this skill nor any other skill in the sorcs offensive rotation needs buffing, nerfing, or tweaking. Everything is perfectly good as is, my opinion of course.

What sorc needs is more utility and diversity in their kit. More viable skills to choose from so that every meta sorc doesn't run the exact same skill load out. We need a rework of pets so that they aren't toggles and then maybe they will see some use. But curse, frags, fury? These are in a good spot and need no tweaking.

QFT.

Dracane

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

I would lie if I say that I'm not happy about the changes, but to be honest, this sounds pretty broken in my opinion. Would have preferred something to break roots and snares.

They should add root immunity. Make it so, that roots can no longer be dodged or purged, but grant a 10 seconds immunity afterwards. Same for snares. Just a thought.

kongkim

Like to see some buff in damage to pet builds. And a stamina pet morph.

ilmyy

I do love this change. It buffs the magic sorc build and nerf stam sorc.
Stam build is so strong now for its high dps.
We need a reason for playing magic sorc in PVE

old_mufasa

Jsmalls wrote: »

old_mufasa wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

Every other magicka class also saw buffs, so whats the problem? Sorc will be more powerful, due to global changes, but the whole point of this patch was to make magicka builds stronger.

I'm sorry.. what world do you live in?

Magblades got a 38% increase in there main spam costs with NO buffs at all... and got a damage buff to there AOE skill that still lags behind elemental blockade and other class aoe.. but at least its not a total waste to cast now...so one nerf and one change that brings up a skill to just under par with other mage class dps... oh but lets not for get the fact that we are talking about one of the lowest dps class in pve as well...

Dragon knights got 5% increase to there spam.. and fixs to some skill some of that hardly used anyhow.. but totally ignored they main issue.. that dragon knight magic skills are way more expensive then anyone else and it was totally ignored.. and they had promised major changes to the class.. I don't call getting 5% whip change and nurfing our standard major buffs.. or fixing chains to work and dragon leap to work..
.
The staff changes are nice.. don't get me wrong.. but that's a buff across all mage class's

Over all Id say sorcs made out like bandits this patch..

The only "buff" we recieved (directed at our class) is the VC one. I wouldn't say it's a damage increase (in PvP, I know it is in PvE) because we burst, we don't really do sustained DPS. It's a sustain buff I'll agree with that (but what good Sorc was running out of resources anyways??).

I just don't see how we "made out like bandits" when the only thing that really happened is they didn't destroy Curse.

I'll agree that the 8% single target damage increase for inferno builds, along with the nerfs to Stamina this update will probably make Mag Sorcs (a class that is pretty heavily tied to said staff) a very strong option. As long as you can manage your 6 second shields, and wearing light armor which I know I have absolutely mastered.

Do you even play and pay attention to the other mage class?

Compared to what happened to them.. yes sorcs made out like bandits when you compare what a happened to the other class's... in what was supposed to be the major magic patch..

Izaki

So much salt in here.

old_mufasa

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

So much salt in here.

I think its because in other games these minor changes are done monthly... we wait months and months with a promise of major overhaul to magic and we get something that other MMO's would consider monthly adjustments to game play...

I think the community is starting to get fed up with all talk and not a lot of substance.. and way to much waiting for bugs and basic game play patchs.

tamrielwinner

i would prefer if they hadn't touched curse, even with the recent changes. it's better than nothing though. it's still a damage nerf to some degree, which is what i assume they were really wanting.

xblackroxe

tamrielwinner wrote: »

i would prefer if they hadn't touched curse, even with the recent changes. it's better than nothing though. it's still a damage nerf to some degree, which is what i assume they were really wanting.

How is this a damage nerf?

Domander

I'd like the stun from Volatile Familiar moved to when it is cast instead of at the end of 8 seconds....


My other thoughts are why the ultimate nerf? .......also please make sure the "haunting" is reset if curse is cast again on the same target before it has gone off.

Transairion

Just throwing my two cents in, I'm quite ashamed at how many players are bashing pets/summons and blaming obvious nerfs on "pushing pets". It's just sad people, summons are finally get some attention after having been considered "trash-tier useless for all content" for literally years, but actual buffs are blamed for other nerfs? Something considered useless is getting buffs, don't spoil it by being bitter.

Hurricane wasn't nerfed for summoners sake, it was nerfed because too strong. Don't forget that video where 4 Stam Sorcs killed Hard Mode Skoria on his first platform, no tanks or heals required just a mass of Hurricanes and set procs.

Increased the Physical and Spell Resistance of all Daedric Summoning pets by 100% (18200 resists at CP160, up from 9100).

Summon Storm Atronach: Increased the damage dealt from the pet summoned by this ability and its morphs by approximately 25%.

Summon Volatile Familiar (Summon Unstable Familiar morph):
Increased the duration of this pet’s special ability to 8 seconds from 4 seconds, causing it to pulse for two extra ticks of damage.
Fixed an issue where the damage from this morph’s special ability was not being increased by Daedric Prey.

Summon Winged Twilight: Increased the health of the pet summoned by this ability and its morphs by 100% (15889 Health at CP160, up from 7945)

I certainly appreciate the buffs, though I'm not a fan of the nerfs as well (Armor-based summons/pets can no longer crit, lowering their DPS) and I'm a bit on the fence with the change to Familiar's stun: instead of every 4 seconds, every 8 seconds (the stun occurs on the final pulse).The health/resist buffs more benefit players who refuse to use Ward, so not really aimed at a pet build like mine but hopefully this will keep summons alive better in Wardless gameplay.

It remains to be seen if the DPS buff of Storm Antronach will even out the DPS loss of armor-summons no longer critting (I doubt it, armor-summons appear more often than can use Ultimate), so this patch hasn't changed much for me. But I certainly appreciate the attention at least!


One change I would like to see for Daedric Summoning is summon basic attacks scaling off some kind of CP tree (most of the Champion system doesn't affect a pet build at all, while for almost every other build in the game Champion system is key!). And some kind of summon-aiming system for console users would be nice for those guys.

Icarus42

Honestly though Equilibrium. What is it good for, absolutely nothing.
Equilibrium is a top tier skill in mages guild and yet its the most useless magic ability in our whole arsenal! (my opinion)
Can't we find something a wee bit more useful to replace it with hmm? Like anything would be better. 14 sec increase in duration for the armor buff is like trying to put a coat of wax on a rust heap.
Also what is the the whole being snared and can't rotate 360 degrees thing all about? Streak with all of its past nerfs did not need this bizarre mechanic. Oh and thanks for the curse thingy.

feyreisa12

While I understand and appreciate that devs have listened to feedback on Velocious Curse, I'm disappointed that the Overload nerf appears to be going forward as planned. Cutting that Ulti by 50% is too extreme. Someone else suggested that if you had to decrease overload's ulti storage, drop it to 750. I would rather you leave it as is, but a 25% loss of DPS is better than a 50% loss.

DPShiro

feyreisa12 wrote: »

While I understand and appreciate that devs have listened to feedback on Velocious Curse, I'm disappointed that the Overload nerf appears to be going forward as planned. Cutting that Ulti by 50% is too extreme. Someone else suggested that if you had to decrease overload's ulti storage, drop it to 750. I would rather you leave it as is, but a 25% loss of DPS is better than a 50% loss.

Using overload is a DPS loss.

cpuScientist

feyreisa12 wrote: »

While I understand and appreciate that devs have listened to feedback on Velocious Curse, I'm disappointed that the Overload nerf appears to be going forward as planned. Cutting that Ulti by 50% is too extreme. Someone else suggested that if you had to decrease overload's ulti storage, drop it to 750. I would rather you leave it as is, but a 25% loss of DPS is better than a 50% loss.

Here is what they are doing. Once again nerfing a part of the sorcs kit for the sake of VMA. They always do it as sorcs are king of that jungle. OL for mag sorcs was a big reason and now it has been nerfed. It's really the only place that it is still used and relied upon. So now we cannot just down all the bosses with it. We have to go slower again. Nerfed again for VMA. But notice how so many are not complaining it's because ZOS already killed that skills usefulness a long while ago. So many frankly don't give a darn.

Twohothardware

While you guys are doing the balancing pass on Sorcerer can you look at doing something with Bound Armor? Outside of the 5% Magicka the 1320 physical and spell resistances do literally nothing. You have to give up a slot on both your front and back bar just to run it since it deactivates when you swap bars so would be great if you could give it something else that makes it worthwhile to run over just using Inner Light from the Mages Guild line which gives 7% Magicka/2% regen on top of revealing stealthed targets.

Vaoh

So now were buffing Velocious Curse?

....why? This was one of the few skills that was 100% balanced. You could have added the Haunting effect to the rarely-used Daedric Prey morph.

Now Curse is OP if anything. I don't understand the purpose of knowingly imbalancing a skill. Smh

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Twohothardware wrote: »

While you guys are doing the balancing pass on Sorcerer can you look at doing something with Bound Armor? Outside of the 5% Magicka the 1320 physical and spell resistances do literally nothing. You have to give up a slot on both your front and back bar just to run it since it deactivates when you swap bars so would be great if you could give it something else that makes it worthwhile to run over just using Inner Light from the Mages Guild line which gives 7% Magicka/2% regen on top of revealing stealthed targets.

It gives 8% max magic.

Izaki

DPShiro wrote: »

feyreisa12 wrote: »

While I understand and appreciate that devs have listened to feedback on Velocious Curse, I'm disappointed that the Overload nerf appears to be going forward as planned. Cutting that Ulti by 50% is too extreme. Someone else suggested that if you had to decrease overload's ulti storage, drop it to 750. I would rather you leave it as is, but a 25% loss of DPS is better than a 50% loss.

Using overload is a DPS loss.

Except in vMA.