Official Feedback Thread for Sorcerers

STEVIL

NoMaassPliz wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

QUESTION #4 Can Bound Armor turn into 30s duration non-toggle?

I disagree. having to recast this along with wards, etc., would create more resource issues than the class already has.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom Bound Armor Suggestion: do something like you did with inner light. Make the magicka boost a passive bonus just for having the skill on your bar, and then activate the ability to get the armor bonus for 30 seconds or something.

EDIT: tagging ZOS

I see your and mine as trade offs.

For mine, the bound takes up one bsckbar slot and is cast every 30s freeing up a main combat bar slot.

Yours requires it be on the main attack bar (for the magica boost to the attacks), frees up a backbar slot and requies cast for unspecified duration for the defense.

I think the attack bar slot freedom is worth the once every 30s recast.

YMMV.

Foxic

cpuScientist wrote: »

1. Why do the pets get max health instead of magicka? Why not move the magicka from bound armor over to pets and vice versa?
2. Why has the weak twilight tormentor not been looked at and given a more useful single target inferno like skill?
3. Why does the atro bonus need to be synergised with, when the DK magma armor just provides the buff?
4. Why would a serious raid group ever let a Sorc in over any of the orher classes?
5. Why is the DPS of a pure pet sorc in PvE so very weak? I am talking curse tormentor AOE pet and atro. It is extremely weak.
6. Why is the atros damage so very low and only single target and stationary?
7. Why is our group buff the 10 magicka regen tied to a skill that is a major DPS loss and the buff only lasts 10 seconds?
8. How are pet sorcs suppose to defend our pets now that they simply cannot be shielded as often as before and will now just die in red. Or if we do choose to shield them our low DPS drops lower. It's not like we are providing some major party boost by having them out so
9. Why is it that when I try to do the pet build that has been forced down on Sorcs, it is so weak?
10. Finally can you tell us WHAT IS THE SORC IDENTITY Are we glass cannons (cause only the glass part is true right now) are we summoners (cause are summons are lackluster at best) what are we????

We run one sorc for the group spell crit buff, but really that's the only reason

code65536

Surge: If the goal for the Surge change is to open up more play styles, as Wrobel stated on ESO Live, then why not give us a choice? Instead of giving us two morphs that are almost identical with relatively small differences, why not give us two morphs and let us pick the version of Surge that best suits our play style? As it stands right now, the changes are more about shifting play styles than expanding them.

Ward: I like that there's now two meaningful morph choices, a larger, shorter ward for reactive defense, and a smaller, longer ward for preemptive defense. But even at 10s, the reduction in the duration is very, very severe. Why not make it at least 12s?

Foxic

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

1. I would like to see a Rework of the 'toggle' skills, specifically, not making them a toggle, at least the summons at least

2. Im just wholly against the changes to the conjured ward durations, and not fond that every class gets a comparable skill.

3.Both stamina and Magicka sorcs need a spammable dps ability in our class skills that provides competitive dps, ill touch on this a bit in 5 6 and 7

4. Making pet build viable. all the taunt and pet buffs, bring them back, its irritating they were removed due to complaints from people who do not main pet builds. so allow the atronach to taunt again, at least one morph.

5. The twilight tormenter needs to activated dps skill like the unstable familiar, the current one is wholly underwhelming, there is no reason to pick that morph over the heal for dps at current. The clanfear needs better taunt, so maybe along with its heal, it taunts your target, or at least reduces the threat of the sorcerer in question.

6. Dark exchange is rather useless, i cant think of a single friend that uses it. IT would be best to change it into something else entirely, perhaps a spammable dps?

7. If not dark exchange, maybe some changes to bound armor, one morph can be for stam sorc, a summoned blade slash, one for magicka, a summoned arrow with competitive dps. In this way its not unlike the changes to summons, give the armor its own activate ability. Id rather it not be a toggle btw

8. Just a overall buff to sorc dps would be nice

9. and finally, Do not make changes that force magicka sorcs to donate passives to stam sorcs, if you must change them, make them scale to the highest stat, not complete conversion.


Edit 10. a bit off topic maybe but The undaunted skill necrotic orb, its crap, completely, i was so dissappointed when i unlocked it it bares mentioin, rework it completely, a really lackluster reward for getting the undaunted to 5.

This is just my list of complaints, im not arrogant enough to believe everyone agrees with me, but i think quite a few will.

Mystic orb which is a morph of necrotic orb is one of the most important skills in the game for raiding

bloodenragedb14_ESO

TotallyNotVos wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

1. I would like to see a Rework of the 'toggle' skills, specifically, not making them a toggle, at least the summons at least

2. Im just wholly against the changes to the conjured ward durations, and not fond that every class gets a comparable skill.

3.Both stamina and Magicka sorcs need a spammable dps ability in our class skills that provides competitive dps, ill touch on this a bit in 5 6 and 7

4. Making pet build viable. all the taunt and pet buffs, bring them back, its irritating they were removed due to complaints from people who do not main pet builds. so allow the atronach to taunt again, at least one morph.

5. The twilight tormenter needs to activated dps skill like the unstable familiar, the current one is wholly underwhelming, there is no reason to pick that morph over the heal for dps at current. The clanfear needs better taunt, so maybe along with its heal, it taunts your target, or at least reduces the threat of the sorcerer in question.

6. Dark exchange is rather useless, i cant think of a single friend that uses it. IT would be best to change it into something else entirely, perhaps a spammable dps?

7. If not dark exchange, maybe some changes to bound armor, one morph can be for stam sorc, a summoned blade slash, one for magicka, a summoned arrow with competitive dps. In this way its not unlike the changes to summons, give the armor its own activate ability. Id rather it not be a toggle btw

8. Just a overall buff to sorc dps would be nice

9. and finally, Do not make changes that force magicka sorcs to donate passives to stam sorcs, if you must change them, make them scale to the highest stat, not complete conversion.


Edit 10. a bit off topic maybe but The undaunted skill necrotic orb, its crap, completely, i was so dissappointed when i unlocked it it bares mentioin, rework it completely, a really lackluster reward for getting the undaunted to 5.

This is just my list of complaints, im not arrogant enough to believe everyone agrees with me, but i think quite a few will.

Mystic orb which is a morph of necrotic orb is one of the most important skills in the game for raiding

id like it to be viable in more than just one situtation

NoMaassPliz

Flaminir wrote: »

NoMaassPliz wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

QUESTION #4 Can Bound Armor turn into 30s duration non-toggle?

I disagree. having to recast this along with wards, etc., would create more resource issues than the class already has.

Bound Armor Suggestion: do something like you did with inner light. Make the magicka boost a passive bonus just for having the skill on your bar, and then activate the ability to get the armor bonus for 30 seconds or something.

Not really DB related...

But if I were to change this skill it would be to move the stat increase to a passive instead.... the armor buff is weak & pointless... people only run it for the stat buff, which is in itself a passive buff and therefore has no place being the only reason for running what should be an active skill.(Non-active skills like this contribute to the boredom and lack of interesting gameplay many Sorc's complain of)

Then change the skill to 'Bound.......' something... maybe a stamina morph as a weapon (Similar to Morkuldins) and a magicka morph as a different kind of summon.... maybe something similar to the DK fireball spitting wotsit, but shooting lightning.... both acting like a DoT!

That would fit with daedric SUMMONING far better than armor does.... whilst also adding a much needed class DoT (Class with the fewest DoT's at present.... a big contributing factor to our comparatively low DPS).

Oh... and one less toggle! Many birds... one stone.

Well said, and thanks for keeping the thread (and me) on task.

NBrookus

I'm going to repeat some questions, but I am doing so for emphasis. Clearly we are all doing a poor job keeping our questions DB-specific, but that only because the whole class is a disorganized mess. Camel, meet straw.

• What is the defining vision for the sorc class, and how does that translate into PvP and PvE? For example, we can make jokes about the templar house, but at least it's clear that the vision is for a stand-your-ground class. We can provide better feedback and suggestions if we have some idea where this short bus is supposed to going.
• Please explain why the nerfs had to happen, again and again. Right now we have a handful of great sorc players generating a lot of QQ in PvP, but it's not reasonable to balance for them, and certainly not at the expense of PvE sorcs. It would be like balancing NB damage based on 2 second gank builds. If nerfs and change happen, please give compensating skills and mitigation so we can change our builds, not just watch them get destroyed.
• Why are sorc penalized for using bolt escape? Stam classes have options to increase the number of dodge rolls they can execute via CP, armor sets and now well-fitted, but sorcs have no way of mitigating the nerf.
• Why has every magicka class been given a superior version of the sorc Hardened Ward? HW is our only significant damage mitigation method. We can't wear heavy armor and do much damage, we can't dodgeroll much, we can't self-heal and we can't escape. Make the sorc class shield last longer; 10 seconds would be fine.
• Why are magicka classes in general placed at a disadvantage with poisons since they scale off of Mighty?
• Why so many toggles? It reduces the number of skills we can use, unless you use Overload -- which is buggy and swapping in and out is really a PITA when Cyro is laggy. (Almost always.)
• Sorcs need a spammable class damage skill so we can break the class reliance on destro in PvP, and open up options for PvE sorcs.
• Sorcs need a *reliable* heal that works in PvP as well as PvE. Surge was already exceptionally poor for non-Overload sorcs, and now it's bad for almost every sorc. Break the class reliance on Healing Ward. This is an unnecessary nerf: if Overload was healing too much, a simple max heal cap would have been sufficient.
• Why is our execute still bugged and doesn't proc until 18%?

DDuke

An important Sorc question I havent seen being asked:

Can we get a stamina morph for atleast one of the pets? A Clannfear would be awesome

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO

DDuke wrote: »

An important Sorc question I havent seen being asked:

Can we get a stamina morph for atleast one of the pets? A Clannfear would be awesome

I'd rather them just scale to highest resource. Would be the simplest, although I'm really not sure how you'd summon a daedric creature with stamina :P

CP5

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

An important Sorc question I havent seen being asked:

Can we get a stamina morph for atleast one of the pets? A Clannfear would be awesome

I'd rather them just scale to highest resource. Would be the simplest, although I'm really not sure how you'd summon a daedric creature with stamina :P

Probably the same way you summon a bow with stamina, but I have to agree with this. I don't like arbitrary 'scales off of stamina/cost stamina' morphs since there is no real choice. They should be able to provide utility for multiple builds, and this would help that much more.

Derra

Flaminir wrote: »

SO... @ZOS_JessicaFolsom mentioned in the natch potes thread they would be popping in here this week & wanted a list of the questions relating to the DB patch changes that they can answer so here's mine as a starter.

Note these are just related to the DB changes affecting sorcs... not sorc's in general:

1. Sorc's are the only class without a spammable class dps skill.... why did you change Trapping webs (The only spammable we had access to which isn't tied to destro staff) to only stamina so we now have no choice but to run a destro staff in all aspects of the game? (This Q coming from a mainly PvP perspective as webs was widely used in there with dual wield on magicka builds).
   
   
2. Why did we receive so many defensive nerfs without a single usable buff to our defence / sustainability? (Shields, and Surge)
   
   
3. Surge nerf - all classes have skills which heal based on damage done.... why has ours been removed to give us a low flat value and all the other classes kept theirs? (If overload was the reason as @Wrobel mentioned on ESO live, then why not just cap the heal at say 6-8k to prevent the 20k overload heals at its peak... there were no other issues with this skill to warrant such a nerf & goes against the stated policy of smaller tweaks rather than huge nerfs).
   
   
4. Why the changes to Dark exchange without actually making it usable due to its cast time? It already has an interesting & unique mechanic... and the user has to sacrifice resources to use it... why add a double penalty with a cast time for such a small return?
   
   
5. Why give a version of our signature defensive ability (Hardened ward) to all classes but nothing from the other classes back to ours?
   
   
6. Given this was supposed to be the major stamina pass on all abilities... why are sorcs the only stamina class without a stamina based dps skill? (I would also ask the same question of magicka Sorcs... but the patch was never listed as a magicka based one)

I can probably think of quite a few more... but these will do to start with.

I 2nd this.

Would love to have each of these questions answered. Really good post.

Something i would like to add in terms of surge changes and their motivation: It was stated surge was supposed to work with DOTs yet with DB the only ranged targetted ability considered a dot for sorcerers by the game engine (curse and morphs) was changed to no longer be treated as such.

Why would it be a priority to give a class with no access to any targeted dot abilities healing that´s working with damage over time abilities, knowing that the ground or character based dots require either melee play (counterintuitive on a magica sorcerer) or require a target that´s not moving.

Alongside curse no longer being considered a dot - what is the general purpose of the velocious curse morph in regards to pve play as there is hardly any reason to ever slot this ability for that purpose.

Minalan

Dark Brotherhood Related Issues

1. Magicka Costs Increasing: Can you please look into this? I understand that this is happening to every class across the board, but with the costs of everything going up, this change is adding insult to injury. And there is already plenty of injury here, and that's being as polite about this patch as I am realistically able.

2. Shields: They took it very hard in this patch, and nothing was given in return. You have a PVE and a PVP morph of the shield, which is untenable because we need to be able to freely switch between them. Empowered Ward is THAT bad for PVP at 6K-8K. Hardened Ward is THAT bad for PVE at 6 seconds. This is not workable. We have to respec morphs based on what content we want to do, which could be multiple times in a day. That's poor design, I already pay enough money to the shrine of Stendarr. Instead why not fix the stacking problem, or make the shields critable and full-length again?

2a. As a skill, the exclusive and class-defining ability Hardened Ward is not much better than Nullify Magicka. Please consider a longer duration, as 8-10 seconds wouldn't be out of line for Hardened Ward and 12 for Empowered.

3. Surge: Please take a look at the design and functionality inside Cyrodiil. Players do not stand still inside of DOT AOE attacks like liquid lightning. A 900 heal is not helpful, even if it manages to crit. Under the old system, we could at least get a decent heal from a lucky crit if the opponent wasn't shielded.

4. Dark Deal: This morph should be an instant heal instead of a one-second cast. This would help decouple the class from the restoration staff. I know someone on your team will think it's too much. All I have to say is: Templar. Dark Deal isn't nearly as good as other class self-heals, if you will not improve shields for whatever reason, please consider this.

5. Skill and DPS Loss: We've lost some of our best damage abilities that we used in the DB patch (Trapping webs, Dawnbreaker of smiting, Fighter's guild passives for werewolves, undead, and daedra). We're okay with this, stamina needed it more than we did. But please figure this into damage and defense calculation changes that you're making.

6. Poisons: These seem designed to affect Magicka users in an unbalanced way, when stamina builds have already been made so much stronger already. Please look into balancing weapon enchants against this, or add a 'poison antidote' potion effect that grants a short time immunity to poisons. Please, we don't want to just get farmed all day, but that's almost inevitable in this patch.

NON-Dark Brotherhood Related Issues

1. Please look at Mage's Wrath and it's morphs. Please look at increasing the damage slightly. It's lacking compared to other executes in both damage and the execution range, and it has been reported that the execute AOE explosion damage is divided between AOE targets.

No, I'm not asking for Radiant Destruction, and that skill needs to be looked at. But this skill doing a tiny bit more up-front damage (1K?), and say 20-25% instead of a reported 18% execute range would help.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Thanks for all the very detailed questions, everyone. We've grabbed everything from Flaminir's post onward and have a lot to work with (the Word doc is already up 8 pages.) We're going to start working on answers. It will take a day or two, but we'll try to release them in batches as we finish them.

XaXa

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Thanks for all the very detailed questions, everyone. We've grabbed everything from Flaminir's post onward and have a lot to work with (the Word doc is already up 8 pages.) We're going to start working on answers. It will take a day or two, but we'll try to release them in batches as we finish them.

Seriously you're amazing. Your performance and involvement in the forums shows how good ZoS could be.

You have really been ontop of the ball when it comes to communicating and relaying information on the threads.

I already posted this twice. But whoever is in charge of hiring and placing people in positions needs to make you the Lead Community Liason (Or something). You are already doing an excellent job at community relations as opposed to what we have recently had.

This is all very much appreciated.

/kowtow

Grao

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Flaminir wrote: »

SO... @ZOS_JessicaFolsom mentioned in the natch potes thread they would be popping in here this week & wanted a list of the questions relating to the DB patch changes that they can answer so here's mine as a starter.

Note these are just related to the DB changes affecting sorcs... not sorc's in general:

1. Sorc's are the only class without a spammable class dps skill.... why did you change Trapping webs (The only spammable we had access to which isn't tied to destro staff) to only stamina so we now have no choice but to run a destro staff in all aspects of the game? (This Q coming from a mainly PvP perspective as webs was widely used in there with dual wield on magicka builds).
   
   
2. Why did we receive so many defensive nerfs without a single usable buff to our defence / sustainability? (Shields, and Surge)
   
   
3. Surge nerf - all classes have skills which heal based on damage done.... why has ours been removed to give us a low flat value and all the other classes kept theirs? (If overload was the reason as @Wrobel mentioned on ESO live, then why not just cap the heal at say 6-8k to prevent the 20k overload heals at its peak... there were no other issues with this skill to warrant such a nerf & goes against the stated policy of smaller tweaks rather than huge nerfs).
   
   
4. Why the changes to Dark exchange without actually making it usable due to its cast time? It already has an interesting & unique mechanic... and the user has to sacrifice resources to use it... why add a double penalty with a cast time for such a small return?
   
   
5. Why give a version of our signature defensive ability (Hardened ward) to all classes but nothing from the other classes back to ours?
   
   
6. Given this was supposed to be the major stamina pass on all abilities... why are sorcs the only stamina class without a stamina based dps skill? (I would also ask the same question of magicka Sorcs... but the patch was never listed as a magicka based one)

I can probably think of quite a few more... but these will do to start with.

Thank you for getting this kicked-off! This is exactly what I'm looking for. We may not be able to answer every question, but having them compiled like this will help us get you answers. (Saving all of these out in a Word doc now.)

For those of you reading who also have questions, our goal is to get you answers to as many of your outstanding questions about Dark Brotherhood-specific changes to the Sorcerer class (and related concerns) much like we did in the thread about the PVP sets. We know there are a lot of questions and concerns, so we ask that you please try to keep questions about the Dark Brotherhood-specific changes and concerns specifically with the Sorcerer class. Keeping them to the current update will help us get you answers a little more quickly.

(We'll be going through and doing this for each class, but we're starting with the Sorcerer community.)

1. For a starter, I think all the sorcerers want to understand what is the developers current vision for sorcerers, specially in PvE as their identity in PvP is less murky. Every class was designed with a strong point, DKs were designed the best tanks, Templars were designed as the best healers, Nightblades were designed as the best Stamina DPS and though you made changes since the start of the game to make all classes viable to all roles in PvE, those identities still hold to a certain extent. From that we assumed Sorcerers were originally conceived as the best Magicka DPS, but that was clearly lost at somepoint as the class now features the lowest maximum magicka DPS available.
2. Why are sorcerers the only class without a spammable ability? For stamina builds that isn't as dreadful as they have multiple weapons to choose from, but for Magicka DPSers this is an absolute restriction to our build paths. We are forced into a Destruction Staff, worse, a fire staff, which isn't at all ideal for our class and thus precluded from trying anything different, such as being a melee magicka oriented sorcerer. I understand the developers desire to keep classes unique, but this particular difference only makes Sorcerer as a class feel uniquely limited and weak.
3. Why do you insist in Dark Exchange? The ability has some serious design flaws which make what we want out of it problematic and which make its current iteration pretty much useless. The Devs can't remove the cast time because of shielding and blocking and at the same time having this ability have a cast time makes it inefficient. Why not replace this skill with something the class so desperately needs, like a spammable damage ability? Just its presence in the Dark Magic Tree would help sorcerer's current sustain issue.
4. Why not give Stamina Builds Crystal Blast? Of all the sorcerer skills available, Crystal Shards and its morphs are likely the most iconic, recognizable skill that is not linked to the Summoner Tree. I understand if Zenimax doesn't want to make Blast into a proc like Crystal Fragments, but why not lower its cost and cast time to make the ability a debuffer, besides being a damage provider? Sorcerers, specially stamina sorcerers, could use a source of Major Breach and Fracture.
5. Pets. Why wasn't their health increased this patch? Currently in Live any sorcerer has trouble keeping pets alive and that is with a un-nerfed Ward, so why not increase the pets health? Why not give Ward the ability to heal pets as well? Why not make Ward stronger on the pets? All those things would make pets far more viable in PvE and if it those became a problem in PvP, you have ways to lower their health and the effectiveness of those spells mentioned through Battle Spirit.
6. Bound Armor. From what I heard Zenimax has expressed their desire to turn away from toggles or give abilities that have to remain a toggle, an active component. Why were the Bound Armor Morphs not given this treatment? Will they be getting this treatment any time soon? There are quite a few suggestion in this thread as what those actives could be.
7. Adding, also on pets. Why are they not allowed to benefit from Champion Points? They are damage spells like DoTs of any other class, so how does Zenimax expects their provided DPS to be competitive with other skills if the progression of that damage is so limited while other Dots aren't? Similarly, I've heard, but haven't been able to test yet, but are sorcerer pets not affected by the Storm Calling Tree passives? If so, again, I have to ask why. They are summoned creatures, but they are still spells cast by the sorcerer and should benefit of all other spells benefit from.

Grao

DDuke wrote: »

An important Sorc question I havent seen being asked:

Can we get a stamina morph for atleast one of the pets? A Clannfear would be awesome

Agreed, the pet deals physical damage, its power should scale with stamina.

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

An important Sorc question I havent seen being asked:

Can we get a stamina morph for atleast one of the pets? A Clannfear would be awesome

I'd rather them just scale to highest resource. Would be the simplest, although I'm really not sure how you'd summon a daedric creature with stamina :P

Maybe they could be summoned using magicka but scale of stamina? That is something I've been wondering, why can't some obviously Magical skills have reduced cost and scale of Stamina? Would it be too powerful?

Vythri

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Thank you for getting this kicked-off! This is exactly what I'm looking for. We may not be able to answer every question, but having them compiled like this will help us get you answers. (Saving all of these out in a Word doc now.)

For those of you reading who also have questions, our goal is to get you answers to as many of your outstanding questions about Dark Brotherhood-specific changes to the Sorcerer class (and related concerns) much like we did in the thread about the PVP sets. We know there are a lot of questions and concerns, so we ask that you please try to keep questions about the Dark Brotherhood-specific changes and concerns specifically with the Sorcerer class. Keeping them to the current update will help us get you answers a little more quickly.

(We'll be going through and doing this for each class, but we're starting with the Sorcerer community.)

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Realistically, even though it will be awesome to hear answers to all of these questions, at the end of the day everybody just wants the stuff fixed. Not just some hand waving and b/s answers that you think justify all of this.

Grao

Vythri wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Thank you for getting this kicked-off! This is exactly what I'm looking for. We may not be able to answer every question, but having them compiled like this will help us get you answers. (Saving all of these out in a Word doc now.)

For those of you reading who also have questions, our goal is to get you answers to as many of your outstanding questions about Dark Brotherhood-specific changes to the Sorcerer class (and related concerns) much like we did in the thread about the PVP sets. We know there are a lot of questions and concerns, so we ask that you please try to keep questions about the Dark Brotherhood-specific changes and concerns specifically with the Sorcerer class. Keeping them to the current update will help us get you answers a little more quickly.

(We'll be going through and doing this for each class, but we're starting with the Sorcerer community.)

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Realistically, even though it will be awesome to hear answers to all of these questions, at the end of the day everybody just wants the stuff fixed. Not just some hand waving and b/s answers that you think justify all of this.

Please, don't say stuff like that. I understand the frustration, believe me, I do and ultimately you are not wrong, we do want the problems fixed, but having an open dialog with the Developers and knowing that they are at least aware of those things we believe are issues with this class is a step on the right direction. Lets not discourage it, please.

It will also be interesting to see how they respond to some of our concerns, why they haven't seen this points as concerns thus far and if we are able to change their opinions when that is the case.

XaXa

Vythri wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Thank you for getting this kicked-off! This is exactly what I'm looking for. We may not be able to answer every question, but having them compiled like this will help us get you answers. (Saving all of these out in a Word doc now.)

For those of you reading who also have questions, our goal is to get you answers to as many of your outstanding questions about Dark Brotherhood-specific changes to the Sorcerer class (and related concerns) much like we did in the thread about the PVP sets. We know there are a lot of questions and concerns, so we ask that you please try to keep questions about the Dark Brotherhood-specific changes and concerns specifically with the Sorcerer class. Keeping them to the current update will help us get you answers a little more quickly.

(We'll be going through and doing this for each class, but we're starting with the Sorcerer community.)

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Realistically, even though it will be awesome to hear answers to all of these questions, at the end of the day everybody just wants the stuff fixed. Not just some hand waving and b/s answers that you think justify all of this.

At least let them give us answers before we get snarky. We finally got some ZoS involvment in this thread lets not push them away.

Friendly reminder to everyone: Keep it professional.

And everyone, just a reminder... we are supposed to be getting ANSWERS. They did not say that they are looking to change the skills. As nice as it would be, do NOT get your hopes up.

Maybe in the long run we can get the changes we need, but for now try to remain calm and look at things realisticlly.

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO

Grao wrote: »

Vythri wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Thank you for getting this kicked-off! This is exactly what I'm looking for. We may not be able to answer every question, but having them compiled like this will help us get you answers. (Saving all of these out in a Word doc now.)

For those of you reading who also have questions, our goal is to get you answers to as many of your outstanding questions about Dark Brotherhood-specific changes to the Sorcerer class (and related concerns) much like we did in the thread about the PVP sets. We know there are a lot of questions and concerns, so we ask that you please try to keep questions about the Dark Brotherhood-specific changes and concerns specifically with the Sorcerer class. Keeping them to the current update will help us get you answers a little more quickly.

(We'll be going through and doing this for each class, but we're starting with the Sorcerer community.)

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Realistically, even though it will be awesome to hear answers to all of these questions, at the end of the day everybody just wants the stuff fixed. Not just some hand waving and b/s answers that you think justify all of this.

Please, don't say stuff like that. I understand the frustration, believe me, I do and ultimately you are not wrong, we do want the problems fixed, but having an open dialog with the Developers and knowing that they are at least aware of those things we believe are issues with this class is a step on the right direction. Lets not discourage it, please.

It will also be interesting to see how they respond to some of our concerns, why they haven't seen this points as concerns thus far and if we are able to change their opinions when that is the case.

Yeah, I'll play nice for a little bit and see if they can actually respond to things and fix them. If they don't I can just go back to complaining, if they do fix sorcs I might actually start playing a bit again and even pay them some money for stuff.

Minalan

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Thanks for all the very detailed questions, everyone. We've grabbed everything from Flaminir's post onward and have a lot to work with (the Word doc is already up 8 pages.) We're going to start working on answers. It will take a day or two, but we'll try to release them in batches as we finish them.

Thank you. @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Even if the designers have a different idea in mind, you're amazing.

Vythri

Grao wrote: »

Please, don't say stuff like that. I understand the frustration, believe me, I do and ultimately you are not wrong, we do want the problems fixed, but having an open dialog with the Developers and knowing that they are at least aware of those things we believe are issues with this class is a step on the right direction. Lets not discourage it, please.

It will also be interesting to see how they respond to some of our concerns, why they haven't seen this points as concerns thus far and if we are able to change their opinions when that is the case.

I'm not saying that to discourage them from listening to our questions and responding. Quite the opposite actually. I just don't want them to go and do what they always do. That being just listing reasons to justify why they make these changes (or don't make changes) and then move on to other things and consider this problem resolved.

Dialogue is great, but if it only ever remains with us just asking questions and them answering without any actual in-game changes, then it's all meaningless. That's what I mean.

Flaminir

Vythri wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Please, don't say stuff like that. I understand the frustration, believe me, I do and ultimately you are not wrong, we do want the problems fixed, but having an open dialog with the Developers and knowing that they are at least aware of those things we believe are issues with this class is a step on the right direction. Lets not discourage it, please.

It will also be interesting to see how they respond to some of our concerns, why they haven't seen this points as concerns thus far and if we are able to change their opinions when that is the case.

I'm not saying that to discourage them from listening to our questions and responding. Quite the opposite actually. I just don't want them to go and do what they always do. That being just listing reasons to justify why they make these changes (or don't make changes) and then move on to other things and consider this problem resolved.

Dialogue is great, but if it only ever remains with us just asking questions and them answering without any actual in-game changes, then it's all meaningless. That's what I mean.

Recently we've been asking... and there have been no answers.... so it's not even been up that level.

The replies from Jess today have been a big step in the right direction.... a dialogue has to be two way... so far it's been one... but with her acting as a conduit at least we can try and move forward constructively.

If we can get some replies from the dev's then one of two things happen...

Either they take some of the feedback on board and make changes (Which will likely be a little down the line), or they inform us they aren't and explain why... and in that case we at least have more info to go on to then make a case which will persuade them.

Or it could be a mixed bag... I'm sure some stuff they will have a set idea on and won't want to change.... my hope is that there is some ground in the middle for compromise & change.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

CP5 wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

On not counting overload bar for slot when commenting pn toggle slot loss, it would be less misleading if you noted the "if you dont want overload bar" when citing limited slots as an issue. IMO.

O making surge ignore ults, so then not only does surge push against dot use in builds but also against non-utility ulti use in builds as well? One sorc class desoign only sounds dull. New version supports any build that can crit. That seems to me to be a good diversity upgrade.

I think I speak for more than just myself when I say socrerer's should stop being ignored in regards to buffs with the 'overload' excuse. It is irritating seeing that pop up when a point is brought up and reminds me when sorcerer's were 'negate monkies'. There is more to the class than just the cheese ultimate. Also that bar is very unreliable, unless the sorcerer doesn't use another ultimate and uses overload sparingly.

I'm glad someone else remembers the days when any thread asking for sorc fixes and changes was hijacked with "Sorcs are fine because Negate is so OP."

This was also before people realized you could break out of the old negate. They still thought it was powerful.

Sorcerers have a few powerful things (which are continually nerfed) and a ton of broken things (which are continually ignored). We are constantly told but other members of the community that we shouldn't get fixes for our broken things because our (already nerfed) powerful things are still too powerful.

PainfulFAFA

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Thanks for all the very detailed questions, everyone. We've grabbed everything from Flaminir's post onward and have a lot to work with (the Word doc is already up 8 pages.) We're going to start working on answers. It will take a day or two, but we'll try to release them in batches as we finish them.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom
Dark Magic
Crystal blast: needs to be removed/replaced. It is an obsolete skill that nobody will ever use because it costs 3.4k, it has a cast time, and it hits very weak. I suggest you either make it into a Buff morph OR make it a stamina ability.

Dark Exchange: cast time and insignificant returns make this skill useless too. It can be interrupted in combat by a simple bash or any ability that interrupts. I suggest you either remove the cast time, or have this ability benefit from its passives by making it do some form of damage or add a passive into the tree so this ability can benefit from it..

Daedric Summoning
This is perhaps the most frustrating tree in the sorc arsenal. 3/5 abilities are toggles... meaning you have to give up slots on both bars just to keep the effect active all the time. Thats a huge turn off. There SHOULD be a way to have toggles active even if its slotted on only 1 of your bars. I suggest you make it so that the effect of those toggles remain X amount of time if you switch bars but if you switch back before the timer runs out, your pet doesn't unsummon. Thats my only issue with this tree... the damn toggles.
I would also like to suggest you give Bound Armaments another effect. Take away the 10% extra heavy att dmg and give it something else, like a buff or let the armor conjure weapons that fight for us.
The atronach ultimate is also something i would like to see buffed. I suggest this ultimate should ALWAYS do AoE dmg (or single target dont matter to me) but one morph should do magic damage and the other should do PHYSICAL damage (wind atro ftw)

Storm Calling
The only issue i have with this tree is with Overload, Ball of Lightning, and Surge.
Overload's morph Power Overload add more range and extra heavy attack damage. In other words, its a mediocre morph. The Power Overload morph should be changed to something else. I suggest you allow it to scale with stamina OR a allowing it to apply a debuff on enemies hit by the overload.

Ball of lightning is an ability that was effectively gutted when streak was nerfed. This ability is pretty much useless because the duration of the ball is too short for it to absorb anything. By the time somebody shoots their arrows at you, the ball is gone. I suggest you increase the duration of the absorbing effect by an extra 2-3 seconds.

Surge has always been overperforming in PvE but did absolutely nothing in PvP imo. If anything, the changes to Surge was a PvE nerf and a PvP buff. When they added Battle Spirit into the formula, that threw everything off for PvP. I suggest you increase the flat heal value by alittle bit from 3k heals (current) to 4k heals because of the Battle Spirit changes.

Passives
Exploitation: This passive grants minor spell crit when you activate a Dark Magic ability. I suggest this passive grant minor weapon crit too so that stam sorcs can benefit from it too by using Dark Exchange etc.

Rebate: This passive grants about 1k magicka when a pet is unsummoned and therein lies the issue. First of all, this passive only works with pets (which there are only 3). Secondly, i need to give up 2 slots for it to be viable. Thirdly, i need to summon the pet... every... time. Do i need to say more? I suggest this passive be the first thing to go next pts patch. If the combat team doesnt know where to start.... this is it right here. I have no suggestions for this passive because im speechless. This passive has been there SINCE LAUNCH. >_<

Daedric Protection: This passive grants 20% stam regen + hp regen. when you have daedric ability slotted. Now there are only 3 possible ways any sorc can do this.
a)Give up 2 slots
b) Give up 2 ultimates
c) Give up 1 slot + 1 Ultimate
...........need i say more? I suggest you make it so that the player can get the effects depending on how many daedric summoning skills are slotted. If i have 1 ability slotted, then i only get 1 effect (stam regen for example). If i have 2 abilities slotted, then i get both effects. The effect should not go away ever. It should depend on abilities slotted on ANY bar.

Expert Summoner: This passive was changed in one of the pts patches. It now gives 8% max health for having a PET ACTIVE. Again, another passive that only works with pets. I need to give up 2 slots and summon it just to get this passive to work. I suggest this passive be changed to 8% max health for having a toggle active (or maybe a daedric ability slotted). That wouldve made much more sense...

Im sorry if i sound a little frustrated but sorcs (especially stam sorcs) have been gutted patch after patch after patch while every other class that outperforms keep getting buffed and buffed .

GriM_728

Today is the day...the day I give up on my first toon I created...the day I let him collect dust...sorcs are toast in pvp. See you guys in the dk threads

XaXa

I'm looking forward to the ZoS Sorc Post. Unlike some others I will be remaining on my stam sorc. Hopefully we can get an idea of the combat teams vision for us.

#StamSorc4Life

Master_Kas

WTB un-nerfed bolt escape please.

I main a nightblade, and want this to happen.

Best of luck ::)

XaXa

Master_Kas wrote: »

WTB un-nerfed bolt escape please.

I main a nightblade, and want this to happen.

Best of luck ::)

That would be amazing.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

XaXa wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

WTB un-nerfed bolt escape please.

I main a nightblade, and want this to happen.

Best of luck ::)

That would be amazing.

Bolt escape is easy to fix. Anytime you stun someone with the skill or damage someone with streak, it removes the cooldown. This would encourage sorcs to stay in the fight, but still punish those that just try to port across the map.

This rewards sorcs that stay in the fight and would be a huge help for stam sorcs as well since bolt escape, the defining sorc move, has been made even more expensive for stam sorcs due to changes to the expert mage passive.

It's not like bolt escape is even that powerful anymore. It's movement mechanics and streak distance has been nerfed so many times. Add that to the gap closer perma snare and if you can't catch a sorc these days with gap closer spam you probably don't have one slotted.