Official Feedback Thread for Sorcerers

NativeJoe

Participated in a tournament Today. Dueled over 30 different people and was doing great for a while. Got wiped out by a stamina dk in under 9 seconds with a leap, WB, and Heavy attack weave followed by WB wB WB. Was stunned and was nothing I could do about the burst.

The final rounds of the tournament Had all stamina Dk's and Nightblades. No sorcs made it to the finals. No templars either.
No magick Dk's, No magick nightblades.

Just throwing this out there... But THE strongest classes that actually made it to the finals and won... are getting buffed next patch. .....Those that didn't are all getting collectively nerfed in one way or another. (for nightblades I hear it's a passive they're losing, for templars it's the same nuke to dots and channels we got nerfed by, and dks it's something I don't remember.... For sorcs... obviously painted all over this forum...and it's our DPS, defense, identity, utility, niche builds, etc that are being hit with the mighty nerf hammer)

As I've said before...
we're losing just about Everything this coming patch... it's not that the sky is falling. but the ground beneath our feet is. Our class foundation has been destroyed... and what is left?
The best sorcs in the game. like top 200 players!!!! are struggling to complete vma...
Like I don't know how I can possibly explain this more coherently then what I have in previous posts.

I guess here is my TL;DR to the developer or anyone that cares. "Sorcs are not just nerfed to the point of being ineffective, and non-competitive with these changes, they are liability to any core pve, pvp, or trial group."

Natas013

cpuScientist wrote: »

Natas013 wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

Natas013 wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

Natas013 wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

On not counting overload bar for slot when commenting pn toggle slot loss, it would be less misleading if you noted the "if you dont want overload bar" when citing limited slots as an issue. IMO.

O making surge ignore ults, so then not only does surge push against dot use in builds but also against non-utility ulti use in builds as well? One sorc class desoign only sounds dull. New version supports any build that can crit. That seems to me to be a good diversity upgrade.

Ulti hit too hard, as previously stated in this thread about overload hits healing to full, and DoTs hit too soft, except maybe curse, to be a good heal with the way it's set up on live. If we had a class spamable skill, this change I suggested seems reasonable. I'll admit my previously suggested stam ranged drain type skill was ill conceived. As such maybe the stam morph should be melee range so it dealing physical damage would make sense.

As for not counting overload bar, I agree with @code65536. When I run it I at most get 2 additional skills and that's if I'm running no toggles. This might be different if weapon swap brought you out of overload.

I also agree that we need more DoTs, and still believe pets should be changed to DoTs like shade. This change would also help DoT builds get heals as opposed to relying on surge. Also it would make for more reliable heals for tanks.

Where I don't agree is the suggested passive swap concerning bound armor. I feel putting an effective active skill on it and it's morphs, justifying having it on both bars (or all three of you run overload), would be better.

In truth sorcs are in a pretty bad spot and could use a lot of attention. There's so many ways the toolkit could be changed up to make us effective, it's hard to settle on what exactly should be done. Obviously the least being changed would be the easiest to get, but may not be the best coarse of action.

I really do not want shades. That skill is not good. And pets in how they fintion are fine, there is just no good reason to alot them. As to do slightly competitive DPS we must have max magicka. We must have overload, we must have inner light and bound aegis slotted. MUST.
So that is why all I want is for the magicka bonus on bound aegis and the health bonus for having pets to be swapped. That's all. It will make pets stronger. As we would be getting the max magicka boost with the pet. And then people could choose which pet they want out.

This is all. I do not know if you use pets or not. But I am a pet Sorc and I have all classes leveled, and shades suck, Sorc pets need tweaks not an insane overhaul like that.

I don't use pets, as they don't function well at all on consoles. The only use for them in PvE is to grab agro and serve as a meat shield until they die. In high end content that's not very long. I can't direct them as I can shades, which I run both morphs for two different purposes. Dark shades I run on my tank set up, and shadow image I run on my healer set up. If they functioned on consoles like they do on PC then I might be inclined to agree with you. Since they don't, and I don't see how they could, the only way I see them being worth a slot is if they only took up one slot. They cost too much, and the cast time is too long, to use them as I proposed they be changed to work. When you throw in the active skill they cost upwards of 3X as much.

As for PvP you're better off slotting two more reliable DoTs that'll actually do some damage. Although you may get to use the heals a few times before someone accidentally kills them.

I dare say, even if they became insanely OP I wouldn't run pets as they function for consoles right now. Tbh the only toggle skills I ever cared for are siphoning strikes and bound armor, I still run leeching strikes on my tank. I was glad when Mage light became an instant, as I could justify slotting it. With the shield nerf though I'm not sure it'll make the cut on the front bar. I'll have to see when DB goes live.

Ok sorry it sucks in consoles. Although you probably have, there needs to be threads asking for this change mage they attack whomever is cursed or they find a way to give that to you. As not having the ability to command my pets would infuriate me to no end. I would not ever slot them if the were the case. I micro manage them like crazy so no thanks consoles.

@ZOS_GinaBruno is there any way to make pets commendable on console any plans for this.

Pets attacking who was cursed would work for solo PvE. It would also work in PvP provided the curse being cleansed didn't affect the targeting. It's not perfect but I suppose. I'd still not run them in pledges, unless I was feeling gutsy and tried to go solo. Might make them useful in trials if they were more survivable. I suppose it wouldn't be any different than supporting a leveling friend who's damage isn't up to par, with one hand tied behind your back. I suppose that could be fun in a mind numbing soul devouring sort of way.

It's not mind numbing lol. And your almost right, but when you have control over them like we do on PC. It is a lot easier to help them survive in PvE. Well when we had shields that is lol. No I don't know. But it is a major part of the summoner experience that you are missing, so for console sorcs it must be terrible.

I do like pets I really do, I want them to be buffed. I would like the pets to not look so terribly stupid though and were not so weak. Yea you can think of them as dots. But dots are fire and forget, they don't require so much pampering. They need a boost to their power and a visual upgrade. But I do like the Summons.

I've often wondered why I couldn't hold down the button the pet's assigned to then press attack for targeting and block to turn them passive. Heck, down on the D-pad does nothing if memory serves me correctly. It'd be awkward to hold down and press the pet's button to have them target, and double tap down to make passive all active pets.

cpuScientist

This coming patch is just the end of the line really. I will still play. I like this game too much. I have 1 of each class, luckily I enjoy my magicka Templar as much as I o my pet sorc. So the transition will not be horrid. But they have really killed one of.my favorite parts of this game. And are just laughing about it on video. It's just a office joke for them.

I remember last patch when the templars were going crazy with anger. And in my mind I clearly saw that they were getting buffed in DPS, as it was clear that there main attacks count as dots and would thus be buffed. I saw that the real missing piece was the lack of mobility nothing else really. I figured that becuase I looked objectively.

No matter how you look at this patch however, it is clear to see that the Sorcs have been decimated. And that there really is nothing left of the class. This is a dead class. Those of us who still play it will be doing so for nostalgic reasons. We received no buffs whatsoever to make up for the nonsense. But instead got laughed at by the people responsible. A shame...

Flaminir

My feedback on Sorc's....

PLEASE REMOVE OVERLOAD!!!

I have had quite enough of the nerfs, lack of balancing, lack of buffs to all our other skills all in the name of this crappy, cheesy, boring, buggy ultimate just because it provides 30 seconds of good DPS out of every 10 minutes gameplay.

Remove it, and maybe we can start to move on and there are no excuses to look at the rest of our toolkit.

Grao

Mettaricana wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

NativeJoe wrote: »

Well you heard it from wobel. we're supposed to be stamina based tanks now. GL.

Not stamina based! Crit based tanks...

Crit tank sounds awesome but pretty much unfeasible no stamina based shields or crit options when in heavy a useless crit surge that doesn't do much and a dead slot with bound armor wasting potential skill options... no stam ult except dawnbreaker... I used to try stam tank dps back before the days of 1.6 when medium armor only offerd attack speed I used heavy and 2 pc medium but those days are gone

Wish they offered a new offensively defensive tank dps set like

2pc crit bonus
3pc armor/ spell resist
4pc crit bonus
5pc 250 wep dmg and gain a small dmg shield when you crit for like 5 secs. Or 250 wep dmg and gain another crit bonus.

Would give armored stam sorc tanks or tanks in general a nice option for dps tank not top of your game dps but better than now since class skills can easily push the pve side over the cap on armor and spell res

Hey, it is not my idea, it is @Wrobel 's. I do think he meant magicka crit sorcerer tanking though... Which is still ridiculous >.<

DjKahun

Had enough of this game now and with all the imbalance! Come on ZOS can you not make a balanced game? ITS NOT THAT HARD! Look at other MMO's with a lot smaller budget then you they are not having these problems like you. Get some new devs or something that actually have some experience with MMO's. I'm done for now I hardly go on this game anymore maybe once a week and also cancelling my ESO+ after using it for months.

First sorc nerf then poisons wtf no wonder everyone stops playing this game.

Natas013

cpuScientist wrote: »

This coming patch is just the end of the line really. I will still play. I like this game too much. I have 1 of each class, luckily I enjoy my magicka Templar as much as I o my pet sorc. So the transition will not be horrid. But they have really killed one of.my favorite parts of this game. And are just laughing about it on video. It's just a office joke for them.

I remember last patch when the templars were going crazy with anger. And in my mind I clearly saw that they were getting buffed in DPS, as it was clear that there main attacks count as dots and would thus be buffed. I saw that the real missing piece was the lack of mobility nothing else really. I figured that becuase I looked objectively.

No matter how you look at this patch however, it is clear to see that the Sorcs have been decimated. And that there really is nothing left of the class. This is a dead class. Those of us who still play it will be doing so for nostalgic reasons. We received no buffs whatsoever to make up for the nonsense. But instead got laughed at by the people responsible. A shame...

I'll continue to play my sorc… but my sorc is my favorite. Probably because I'm a glutton for punishment and I got a group of friends that'll carry my sorry ass. ;P

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO

cpuScientist wrote: »

This coming patch is just the end of the line really. I will still play. I like this game too much. I have 1 of each class, luckily I enjoy my magicka Templar as much as I o my pet sorc. So the transition will not be horrid. But they have really killed one of.my favorite parts of this game. And are just laughing about it on video. It's just a office joke for them.

I remember last patch when the templars were going crazy with anger. And in my mind I clearly saw that they were getting buffed in DPS, as it was clear that there main attacks count as dots and would thus be buffed. I saw that the real missing piece was the lack of mobility nothing else really. I figured that becuase I looked objectively.

No matter how you look at this patch however, it is clear to see that the Sorcs have been decimated. And that there really is nothing left of the class. This is a dead class. Those of us who still play it will be doing so for nostalgic reasons. We received no buffs whatsoever to make up for the nonsense. But instead got laughed at by the people responsible. A shame...

Yeah, sorcs are the joke among zenimax while Wrobel is the joke among the playerbase, lol. Good times with elemental blockade melting things according to him back when it couldn't kill a fly. And the one with templar housing to mention a few. xD

eserras7b16_ESO

Flaminir wrote: »

My feedback on Sorc's....

PLEASE REMOVE OVERLOAD!!!

I have had quite enough of the nerfs, lack of balancing, lack of buffs to all our other skills all in the name of this crappy, cheesy, boring, buggy ultimate just because it provides 30 seconds of good DPS out of every 10 minutes gameplay.

Remove it, and maybe we can start to move on and there are no excuses to look at the rest of our toolkit.

Probably a good idea

SorataArisugawa

eserras7b16_ESO wrote: »

Flaminir wrote: »

My feedback on Sorc's....

PLEASE REMOVE OVERLOAD!!!

I have had quite enough of the nerfs, lack of balancing, lack of buffs to all our other skills all in the name of this crappy, cheesy, boring, buggy ultimate just because it provides 30 seconds of good DPS out of every 10 minutes gameplay.

Remove it, and maybe we can start to move on and there are no excuses to look at the rest of our toolkit.

Probably a good idea

Overload is not the problem. The complete mess in the 3 trees is the problem.

Why does the stormcalling tree has no spamable lightning ablity? Why is the curse not in the dark magic? Why is the execute not in there es well? We have a spell which hit hard after some seconds and one hat triggers at a certain amount of health as an execute. Combine this two and we are not that "bursty" anymore! After this give us a nice stormcalling spell instead of the useless finisher we got now.

Overload should be a nice DMG if needed not ourer only DMG at all.

Mulcibur

Hardened ward should last a little longer. 6 seconds is too short and the buff to the other morph making it 10 seconds now (or whatever) is not what we need. I can't respec my morphs each time I change from PVP to do vMSA or trails (if with a non-optimal group). For PVP the 6 seconds is manageable but for PVE, I really hope you will increase Hardened to 10 seconds or 12 seconds. I won't use the other morph for PVP with my playstyle and won't respec each time I leave PVP.

Flaminir

SorataArisugawa wrote: »

eserras7b16_ESO wrote: »

Flaminir wrote: »

My feedback on Sorc's....

PLEASE REMOVE OVERLOAD!!!

I have had quite enough of the nerfs, lack of balancing, lack of buffs to all our other skills all in the name of this crappy, cheesy, boring, buggy ultimate just because it provides 30 seconds of good DPS out of every 10 minutes gameplay.

Remove it, and maybe we can start to move on and there are no excuses to look at the rest of our toolkit.

Probably a good idea

Overload is not the problem. The complete mess in the 3 trees is the problem.

Why does the stormcalling tree has no spamable lightning ablity? Why is the curse not in the dark magic? Why is the execute not in there es well? We have a spell which hit hard after some seconds and one hat triggers at a certain amount of health as an execute. Combine this two and we are not that "bursty" anymore! After this give us a nice stormcalling spell instead of the useless finisher we got now.

Overload should be a nice DMG if needed not ourer only DMG at all.

This is my point.... we don't get these nice things because they see our DPS metrics in some situations as being ok... purely because of overload.

Wrobel also even stated on ESO live on friday that the surge nerf was primarily because of the stupid heals that you'd get from using it with overload.

Overload is a crappy, buggy & boring skill.... remove it and many of our DPS metrics will all go down... so they then have to look at the rest of the toolkit... and all the things that you said in your post that you want.

Until this crutch is removed we appear at their end to be ok.. and nothing changes.

All the other classes have a low cost ulti... I'd like to see one for us, in place of Overload....

...Maybe a HUGE lightning bolt flying down from the sky and doing a decent amount of damage and making the target more susceptible to elemental damage for 12 seconds or something like that? Would fit with stormcalling and provide extra utility in raids.

Derra

Mulcibur wrote: »

Hardened ward should last a little longer. 6 seconds is too short and the buff to the other morph making it 10 seconds now (or whatever) is not what we need. I can't respec my morphs each time I change from PVP to do vMSA or trails (if with a non-optimal group). For PVP the 6 seconds is manageable but for PVE, I really hope you will increase Hardened to 10 seconds or 12 seconds. I won't use the other morph for PVP with my playstyle and won't respec each time I leave PVP.

One of the issues i have with empowered ward aswell.

It´s fine for pve but too small in pvp. There should not be a pve/pvp morph choice for core class skills. The result will most likely be two shields to stack on my bar for the first time since 1.7.

bloodenragedb14_ESO

so, the recent 'natch potes' topic for today, they mentioned that the devs will finally be looking in on the feedback threads.

so guys, stow the anger, get out your thinking caps, take some anti-psychotics, and carefully and dutifully describe what you think is wrong with the class when the time comes

XaXa

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

so, the recent 'natch potes' topic for today, they mentioned that the devs will finally be looking in on the feedback threads.

so guys, stow the anger, get out your thinking caps, take some anti-psychotics, and carefully and dutifully describe what you think is wrong with the class when the time comes

Thank you for reminding me to take my seroquel. I actually forgot.

On an more related note. Keep it clean and constructive. Someone already told them we simmerd down. Lets not make thay person a liar. Be professional and polite people and maybe we can get some changes!

bloodenragedb14_ESO

XaXa wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

so, the recent 'natch potes' topic for today, they mentioned that the devs will finally be looking in on the feedback threads.

so guys, stow the anger, get out your thinking caps, take some anti-psychotics, and carefully and dutifully describe what you think is wrong with the class when the time comes

Thank you for reminding me to take my seroquel. I actually forgot.

On an more related note. Keep it clean and constructive. Someone already told them we simmerd down. Lets not make thay person a liar. Be professional and polite people and maybe we can get some changes!

that was me, but yeah, im trying some pre-emptive calming down

Flaminir

SO... @ZOS_JessicaFolsom mentioned in the natch potes thread they would be popping in here this week & wanted a list of the questions relating to the DB patch changes that they can answer so here's mine as a starter.

Note these are just related to the DB changes affecting sorcs... not sorc's in general:

1. Sorc's are the only class without a spammable class dps skill.... why did you change Trapping webs (The only spammable we had access to which isn't tied to destro staff) to only stamina so we now have no choice but to run a destro staff in all aspects of the game? (This Q coming from a mainly PvP perspective as webs was widely used in there with dual wield on magicka builds).
   
   
2. Why did we receive so many defensive nerfs without a single usable buff to our defence / sustainability? (Shields, and Surge)
   
   
3. Surge nerf - all classes have skills which heal based on damage done.... why has ours been removed to give us a low flat value and all the other classes kept theirs? (If overload was the reason as @Wrobel mentioned on ESO live, then why not just cap the heal at say 6-8k to prevent the 20k overload heals at its peak... there were no other issues with this skill to warrant such a nerf & goes against the stated policy of smaller tweaks rather than huge nerfs).
   
   
4. Why the changes to Dark exchange without actually making it usable due to its cast time? It already has an interesting & unique mechanic... and the user has to sacrifice resources to use it... why add a double penalty with a cast time for such a small return?
   
   
5. Why give a version of our signature defensive ability (Hardened ward) to all classes but nothing from the other classes back to ours?
   
   
6. Given this was supposed to be the major stamina pass on all abilities... why are sorcs the only stamina class without a stamina based dps skill? (I would also ask the same question of magicka Sorcs... but the patch was never listed as a magicka based one)

I can probably think of quite a few more... but these will do to start with.

XaXa

My main questions are.

What is your vision for the Sorc class? Do you have a roadmap and plan with realistic dates and goals to get the class to where you want it? (Stamina and Magicka)

Is there any plan in the works to give bound armor an the mage light treatment? It should really have an active component and remove its status as a toggle. This will open alot of options for both magicka and stam sorcs.

Surge. What are the developers intentions with this move? I suggest returning power surge to its former status while leaving crit surge as is on pts. This gives more options. If need be the power surge heal can be capped.

Wards. What was the developers intentions when it came to giving everyone a hardened ward? Will sorcs be getting any kind of defensive buff to offset the massive ward nerf?

Dark Exchange. Are there any intentions to reduce the cast time? As is this move is underwhelming simply because the long cast time / the fact it can be bashed. If you are worried about permablock with unlimited resources you can make it so it simply returns the secondary resource as an overtime effect. This move could be a great class heal if it wasnt for the cast time.

Magicka spammable. Any update?


And lastly. Crystal blast... are there plans to turn this move into a stamina move? On live no one uses it and it really could be changed without impacting magicka sorcs.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Flaminir wrote: »

SO... @ZOS_JessicaFolsom mentioned in the natch potes thread they would be popping in here this week & wanted a list of the questions relating to the DB patch changes that they can answer so here's mine as a starter.

Note these are just related to the DB changes affecting sorcs... not sorc's in general:

1. Sorc's are the only class without a spammable class dps skill.... why did you change Trapping webs (The only spammable we had access to which isn't tied to destro staff) to only stamina so we now have no choice but to run a destro staff in all aspects of the game? (This Q coming from a mainly PvP perspective as webs was widely used in there with dual wield on magicka builds).
   
   
2. Why did we receive so many defensive nerfs without a single usable buff to our defence / sustainability? (Shields, and Surge)
   
   
3. Surge nerf - all classes have skills which heal based on damage done.... why has ours been removed to give us a low flat value and all the other classes kept theirs? (If overload was the reason as @Wrobel mentioned on ESO live, then why not just cap the heal at say 6-8k to prevent the 20k overload heals at its peak... there were no other issues with this skill to warrant such a nerf & goes against the stated policy of smaller tweaks rather than huge nerfs).
   
   
4. Why the changes to Dark exchange without actually making it usable due to its cast time? It already has an interesting & unique mechanic... and the user has to sacrifice resources to use it... why add a double penalty with a cast time for such a small return?
   
   
5. Why give a version of our signature defensive ability (Hardened ward) to all classes but nothing from the other classes back to ours?
   
   
6. Given this was supposed to be the major stamina pass on all abilities... why are sorcs the only stamina class without a stamina based dps skill? (I would also ask the same question of magicka Sorcs... but the patch was never listed as a magicka based one)

I can probably think of quite a few more... but these will do to start with.

Thank you for getting this kicked-off! This is exactly what I'm looking for. We may not be able to answer every question, but having them compiled like this will help us get you answers. (Saving all of these out in a Word doc now.)

For those of you reading who also have questions, our goal is to get you answers to as many of your outstanding questions about Dark Brotherhood-specific changes to the Sorcerer class (and related concerns) much like we did in the thread about the PVP sets. We know there are a lot of questions and concerns, so we ask that you please try to keep questions about the Dark Brotherhood-specific changes and concerns specifically with the Sorcerer class. Keeping them to the current update will help us get you answers a little more quickly.

(We'll be going through and doing this for each class, but we're starting with the Sorcerer community.)

STEVIL

Odd thought for the bound armor discussion.
Impossible for this patch but food fot thpught.

No toggle.
Click for 30 sec buff
Gives minor resistances plus the minor reduction in dmg (no magica gain)
MORPH ENCHANTED WEAPONS lets melee weapons and bows do shock damage and scale with magica and spellbdmg, return
MORPH

Flaminir wrote: »

SorataArisugawa wrote: »

eserras7b16_ESO wrote: »

Flaminir wrote: »

My feedback on Sorc's....

PLEASE REMOVE OVERLOAD!!!

I have had quite enough of the nerfs, lack of balancing, lack of buffs to all our other skills all in the name of this crappy, cheesy, boring, buggy ultimate just because it provides 30 seconds of good DPS out of every 10 minutes gameplay.

Remove it, and maybe we can start to move on and there are no excuses to look at the rest of our toolkit.

Probably a good idea

Overload is not the problem. The complete mess in the 3 trees is the problem.

Why does the stormcalling tree has no spamable lightning ablity? Why is the curse not in the dark magic? Why is the execute not in there es well? We have a spell which hit hard after some seconds and one hat triggers at a certain amount of health as an execute. Combine this two and we are not that "bursty" anymore! After this give us a nice stormcalling spell instead of the useless finisher we got now.

Overload should be a nice DMG if needed not ourer only DMG at all.

This is my point.... we don't get these nice things because they see our DPS metrics in some situations as being ok... purely because of overload.

Wrobel also even stated on ESO live on friday that the surge nerf was primarily because of the stupid heals that you'd get from using it with overload.

Overload is a crappy, buggy & boring skill.... remove it and many of our DPS metrics will all go down... so they then have to look at the rest of the toolkit... and all the things that you said in your post that you want.

Until this crutch is removed we appear at their end to be ok.. and nothing changes.

All the other classes have a low cost ulti... I'd like to see one for us, in place of Overload....

...Maybe a HUGE lightning bolt flying down from the sky and doing a decent amount of damage and making the target more susceptible to elemental damage for 12 seconds or something like that? Would fit with stormcalling and provide extra utility in raids.

WAMASU STORM
Throw cone shaped lightning channel out to like 10m or whatrver the beast does.
Morphs for duration or range buffs.
Each tick can proc passives.

Bfish22090

Why are pets and bound armor still a toggle that you have to slot on both bars?

cpuScientist

1. Why do the pets get max health instead of magicka? Why not move the magicka from bound armor over to pets and vice versa?
2. Why has the weak twilight tormentor not been looked at and given a more useful single target inferno like skill?
3. Why does the atro bonus need to be synergised with, when the DK magma armor just provides the buff?
4. Why would a serious raid group ever let a Sorc in over any of the orher classes?
5. Why is the DPS of a pure pet sorc in PvE so very weak? I am talking curse tormentor AOE pet and atro. It is extremely weak.
6. Why is the atros damage so very low and only single target and stationary?
7. Why is our group buff the 10 magicka regen tied to a skill that is a major DPS loss and the buff only lasts 10 seconds?
8. How are pet sorcs suppose to defend our pets now that they simply cannot be shielded as often as before and will now just die in red. Or if we do choose to shield them our low DPS drops lower. It's not like we are providing some major party boost by having them out so
9. Why is it that when I try to do the pet build that has been forced down on Sorcs, it is so weak?
10. Finally can you tell us WHAT IS THE SORC IDENTITY Are we glass cannons (cause only the glass part is true right now) are we summoners (cause are summons are lackluster at best) what are we????

XaXa

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Flaminir wrote: »

SO... @ZOS_JessicaFolsom mentioned in the natch potes thread they would be popping in here this week & wanted a list of the questions relating to the DB patch changes that they can answer so here's mine as a starter.

Note these are just related to the DB changes affecting sorcs... not sorc's in general:

1. Sorc's are the only class without a spammable class dps skill.... why did you change Trapping webs (The only spammable we had access to which isn't tied to destro staff) to only stamina so we now have no choice but to run a destro staff in all aspects of the game? (This Q coming from a mainly PvP perspective as webs was widely used in there with dual wield on magicka builds).
   
   
2. Why did we receive so many defensive nerfs without a single usable buff to our defence / sustainability? (Shields, and Surge)
   
   
3. Surge nerf - all classes have skills which heal based on damage done.... why has ours been removed to give us a low flat value and all the other classes kept theirs? (If overload was the reason as @Wrobel mentioned on ESO live, then why not just cap the heal at say 6-8k to prevent the 20k overload heals at its peak... there were no other issues with this skill to warrant such a nerf & goes against the stated policy of smaller tweaks rather than huge nerfs).
   
   
4. Why the changes to Dark exchange without actually making it usable due to its cast time? It already has an interesting & unique mechanic... and the user has to sacrifice resources to use it... why add a double penalty with a cast time for such a small return?
   
   
5. Why give a version of our signature defensive ability (Hardened ward) to all classes but nothing from the other classes back to ours?
   
   
6. Given this was supposed to be the major stamina pass on all abilities... why are sorcs the only stamina class without a stamina based dps skill? (I would also ask the same question of magicka Sorcs... but the patch was never listed as a magicka based one)

I can probably think of quite a few more... but these will do to start with.

Thank you for getting this kicked-off! This is exactly what I'm looking for. We may not be able to answer every question, but having them compiled like this will help us get you answers. (Saving all of these out in a Word doc now.)

For those of you reading who also have questions, our goal is to get you answers to as many of your outstanding questions about Dark Brotherhood-specific changes to the Sorcerer class (and related concerns) much like we did in the thread about the PVP sets. We know there are a lot of questions and concerns, so we ask that you please try to keep questions about the Dark Brotherhood-specific changes and concerns specifically with the Sorcerer class. Keeping them to the current update will help us get you answers a little more quickly.

(We'll be going through and doing this for each class, but we're starting with the Sorcerer community.)

This makes me happy .

I think this is a sign guys...

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom takes over for a bit and suddently developer / community relations and communicatiom skyrockets!

Can you be the new community liason / face of zos on the forums?

/kowtow

STEVIL

QUESTION #1 Can we please have pets base of higher of stamina and magica?

QUESTION #2 Can we get "end of shield" benefits ti the new 6s wards ala blazing shield and healing ward? Suggest splitting remaining shield strength at end with magica and stamina or maybe return x% of absorbed damage as health, magic, sta.

QUESTION #3 Can we get either a minor buff when pets are active (minor mending/blessing for twilights and minor brutal/sorc for clanfear/scamp) or maybe increases to regens depending on which chosen?

QUESTION #4 Can Bound Armor turn into 30s duration non-toggle?

Thanks.

NoMaassPliz

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom I think this is a really good start. I know these have already been stated, but I think these are the two most pressing issues facing sorcs on PTS:

1) Surge nerf: Wrobel said ESO live on friday that the surge nerf was primarily because heals received while using overload. Please, please, please look at the numbers with non-ultimate skills. It is not sustainable. If, as Wrobel said. he is trying to match surge to the heals received from templar sweeps / nightblade siphon attacks, please take into account the other synergies these classes have that sorcs do not; i.e., templars have extra resistances that sorcs d not, etc.

2) Hardened ward... please extend the duration. Now that every class has access to this ability in Harness magicka and its morphs from light armor (may be messing up name), what is the point? The ward was a defining ability of a sorc. Please consider extending to 10 seconds.

3) Class spammable dps... maybe not for this update but please consider addressing at some point... templars have sweeps, dks have whip... we have hard-casted frags? Again, I don't think this needs to be addressed this patch, as 1 & 2 are way more important.

The other concerns are viable, but we can at least play sorcs on live if you address these two issues. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE listen to your player base on this, there have been extensive posts written in this thread about these two problems in particular.

AshTal

1) I get that we are getting nerfed a lot because of a very small group who can kick up a 40K shield so the average player must be punished. Why not limit the strength of the shield rather than reduce its duration so heavily. Link the shield to the players health so that min maxers can't get the same level shield as a balanced offense/defence player.

2) Why are pets so useless. This is in end game PvP (and I assume raids) the damage of pets is pathetic that's all of them including the ultimate - yes this isn't a recent change but it looks like we are again being forced to be a class pet, the problem being pets are crap. In PvP everyone just ignored them unless the AI has them out in front of the battle line and in end game even the mobs either ignore them or kill them in 2 shots. They need a massive damage bonus. Also pets cripple our ability to have 2 combat bars as we must keep them on both or they are un-summoned. They don't take up 2 slots but 4.

3) Why do we have no instant cast damage ability that's any good. Our healing requires pets (which suck) so we need to have healing staff, now that hardened ward is so completely nerfed to hell we need a healing ability not tied to a pet even more.

4) I like the change to bound armour however I still can't shake the feeling that the armour increase here is pitiful. Given that like most of our other toggle abilities we will need to have it on 2 bars so we can switch without constant recasting can we get better armour, or have it so just having it slotted gives are bonus so when we swap back in a battle we get the bonus without having to recast. As there is no down side to having it on can't we just assume we would always want it up?

bloodenragedb14_ESO

1. I would like to see a Rework of the 'toggle' skills, specifically, not making them a toggle, at least the summons at least

2. Im just wholly against the changes to the conjured ward durations, and not fond that every class gets a comparable skill.

3.Both stamina and Magicka sorcs need a spammable dps ability in our class skills that provides competitive dps, ill touch on this a bit in 5 6 and 7

4. Making pet build viable. all the taunt and pet buffs, bring them back, its irritating they were removed due to complaints from people who do not main pet builds. so allow the atronach to taunt again, at least one morph.

5. The twilight tormenter needs to activated dps skill like the unstable familiar, the current one is wholly underwhelming, there is no reason to pick that morph over the heal for dps at current. The clanfear needs better taunt, so maybe along with its heal, it taunts your target, or at least reduces the threat of the sorcerer in question.

6. Dark exchange is rather useless, i cant think of a single friend that uses it. IT would be best to change it into something else entirely, perhaps a spammable dps?

7. If not dark exchange, maybe some changes to bound armor, one morph can be for stam sorc, a summoned blade slash, one for magicka, a summoned arrow with competitive dps. In this way its not unlike the changes to summons, give the armor its own activate ability. Id rather it not be a toggle btw

8. Just a overall buff to sorc dps would be nice

9. and finally, Do not make changes that force magicka sorcs to donate passives to stam sorcs, if you must change them, make them scale to the highest stat, not complete conversion.


Edit 10. a bit off topic maybe but The undaunted skill necrotic orb, its crap, completely, i was so dissappointed when i unlocked it it bares mentioin, rework it completely, a really lackluster reward for getting the undaunted to 5.

This is just my list of complaints, im not arrogant enough to believe everyone agrees with me, but i think quite a few will.

NoMaassPliz

STEVIL wrote: »

QUESTION #4 Can Bound Armor turn into 30s duration non-toggle?

I disagree. having to recast this along with wards, etc., would create more resource issues than the class already has.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom Bound Armor Suggestion: do something like you did with inner light. Make the magicka boost a passive bonus just for having the skill on your bar, and then activate the ability to get the armor bonus for 30 seconds or something.

EDIT: tagging ZOS

Flaminir

NoMaassPliz wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

QUESTION #4 Can Bound Armor turn into 30s duration non-toggle?

I disagree. having to recast this along with wards, etc., would create more resource issues than the class already has.

Bound Armor Suggestion: do something like you did with inner light. Make the magicka boost a passive bonus just for having the skill on your bar, and then activate the ability to get the armor bonus for 30 seconds or something.

Not really DB related...

But if I were to change this skill it would be to move the stat increase to a passive instead.... the armor buff is weak & pointless... people only run it for the stat buff, which is in itself a passive buff and therefore has no place being the only reason for running what should be an active skill.(Non-active skills like this contribute to the boredom and lack of interesting gameplay many Sorc's complain of)

Then change the skill to 'Bound.......' something... maybe a stamina morph as a weapon (Similar to Morkuldins) and a magicka morph as a different kind of summon.... maybe something similar to the DK fireball spitting wotsit, but shooting lightning.... both acting like a DoT!

That would fit with daedric SUMMONING far better than armor does.... whilst also adding a much needed class DoT (Class with the fewest DoT's at present.... a big contributing factor to our comparatively low DPS).

Oh... and one less toggle! Many birds... one stone.

Thelon

Why are sorcerers the only class punished for using their defining skill? If the cost of Bolt Escape stacks, why is the same not true for DK wings, Templar BoL and Nightblades Cloak?