Official Feedback Thread for Sorcerers

Flaminir

cpuScientist wrote: »

Just switch the health from the pet passive and the magicka from bound aegis. Just do that

Well.... ideally not just that .... but yes that would be an exceptionally elegant and easy way for them to address one of the issues (Toggles) and is the kind of simple design thinking that will appeal to the dev's and they are more likely to consider!

It also fits more logically.... why should armor give magicka? Giving health is a far more logical feature.

bloodenragedb14_ESO

Flaminir wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

Just switch the health from the pet passive and the magicka from bound aegis. Just do that

Well.... ideally not just that .... but yes that would be an exceptionally elegant and easy way for them to address one of the issues (Toggles) and is the kind of simple design thinking that will appeal to the dev's and they are more likely to consider!

It also fits more logically.... why should armor give magicka? Giving health is a far more logical feature.

now that you mention it, that doesnt make any sense whatsoever, bound armor is supposed to protect, not empower

Makkir

Can we look at getting magicka morphs to some dual wield skills? I fear DB is going to pigeon hole sorcs into using destro/resto

How about fine tuning some of the less popular skills that literally no one uses?

Is it possible to make a slight modification to damage shields to only have the duration nerf effective in Cyrodiil? This way the original 20 second duration is still there for PvE content.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Ajax_22 wrote: »

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom I have a few questions for Wrobel and team.

• Why does Disintegrate, now Implosion, scale off max health? This is not a fun or interesting mechanic, and is extremely inconsistent with most of the rest of the game.
• Stamina Socerers still have the least amount of useful class passives. Are there any plans to update some of the other passives? If not why?
• Surge was the only class defensive ability Stamina Sorcerers had, and changing it to a flat value makes it unusable in Cyrodiil. Can we get one morph of the skill that functions like it currently does on live? If not are there plans to give us more class defensive abilities to compensate?
• Stamina Sorcerers only have one class ability that does damage while every other stamina class has a minimum of three. Are there any plans to correct this ability disparity?
• Dark Exchange is still not useful. Why won't you just remove the cast time?
• Why does the Daedric Protection passive still require a Daedric Summoning ability to be slotted? The only useful Daedric Summoning ability for Stamina Sorcerers is a toggle that most of us don't have the bar slots to use.
• Can Bound Armor get a rework? Some classes have the stat increases from both morphs as a passive. Why do we have to give up two bar slots for them?
• Can you take another look at this Streak cost increase? It hurts Stamina Sorcerers much more than it does Magicka Sorcerers.
• Overload is the source of a lot of Sorcerer nerfs, and problems. Would you be willing to change it to a cheap single cast ultimate, and give Magicka Sorcerers more sustained DPS to compensate?

Quoting these because they are all excellent. And adding a follow up to the bound armaments comment.

• Look at how you changed magelight.
• Now look at Bound Armaments
• Now back to magelight.
• One of these skills is no longer a toggle, and grants most all of the benefits passively while slotted and can be used from one bar.
• See anything you can do?

Just in case I have to spell it out.

For Dark Brotherhood: Bound Armaments (The least you can do)

• This ability is no longer a toggle and grants 8% max stamina and minor ward resolve passively while slotted.
• Activating the skill boosts your heavy attack damage by X% for Y seconds.
• You can mirror this for the magicka morph. simple and easy.

Not a very exiting skill is it? But this would be a LIFESAVER of a change for the DB patch. No more terrible toggle. Sorcs could use this to get the important Daedric protection passive without sacrificing TWO BARS for it. Quality of life would go up sooo much.

Stretch Goal: To keep in mind for the Future (i.e. Not this patch but maybe the next)

Bound Armaments (the dream):

• Grants 8% max stamina and minor ward resolve passively while slotted.
• Activating the skill costs X Magicka and spawns a bound sword (like morkuldin) around the player for Y seconds.
• While the sword is summoned, Player can press the skill again to wield the sword and perform a melee range single target attack fthat does physical damage costing X STAMINA.
• After Y seconds, the sword vanishes and must be summoned again.

This would give Sorcs a stamina spamable they desparately need that screams sorc. In true sorc fashion, its even a little clunky (because you have to summon it with magicka first, then use stamina to swing) so it fits well with our other sorc skills and ties into bound weapon lore and even the Daedric Summoning tree.

I know this is probably too much for this patch but please just give this ability the magelight treatment for this patch and give us our dream bound sword next patch.

Birdovic

@Yolokin_Swagonborn

I hope you dont mind, if I quote you...you know, just to make sure its read

Quoting these because they are all excellent. And adding a follow up to the bound armaments comment.
Look at how you changed magelight.
Now look at Bound Armaments
Now back to magelight.
One of these skills is no longer a toggle, and grants most all of the benefits passively while slotted and can be used from one bar.
See anything you can do?

Just in case I have to spell it out.

For Dark Brotherhood: Bound Armaments (The least you can do)
This ability is no longer a toggle and grants 8% max stamina and minor ward passively while slotted.
Activating the skill boosts your heavy attack damage by X% for Y seconds.
You can mirror this for the magicka morph. simple and easy.

Not a very exiting skill is it? But this would be a LIFESAVER of a change for the DB patch. No more terrible toggle. Sorcs could use this to get the important Daedric protection passive. Quality of life would go up sooo much.

Stretch Goal: To keep in mind for the Future (i.e. Not this patch but maybe the next)

Bound Armaments (the dream):
Grants 8% max stamina and minor ward passively while slotted.
Activating the skill costs X Magicka and spawns a bound sword (like morkuldin) around the player for Y seconds.
While the sword is summoned, Player can press the skill again and perform a melee range single target attack for Y seconds costing X STAMINA.
After Y seconds, the sword vanishes and must be summoned again.

This would give Sorcs a stamina spamable they desparately need that screams sorc. In true sorc fashion, its even a little clunky (because you have to summon it with magicka first, then use stamina to swing) so it fits well with our other sorc skills and ties into bound weapon lore.

I know this is probably too much for this patch but please just give this ability the magelight treatment for this patch and give us our dream bound sword next patch.

XaXa

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom I have a few questions for Wrobel and team.

• Why does Disintegrate, now Implosion, scale off max health? This is not a fun or interesting mechanic, and is extremely inconsistent with most of the rest of the game.
• Stamina Socerers still have the least amount of useful class passives. Are there any plans to update some of the other passives? If not why?
• Surge was the only class defensive ability Stamina Sorcerers had, and changing it to a flat value makes it unusable in Cyrodiil. Can we get one morph of the skill that functions like it currently does on live? If not are there plans to give us more class defensive abilities to compensate?
• Stamina Sorcerers only have one class ability that does damage while every other stamina class has a minimum of three. Are there any plans to correct this ability disparity?
• Dark Exchange is still not useful. Why won't you just remove the cast time?
• Why does the Daedric Protection passive still require a Daedric Summoning ability to be slotted? The only useful Daedric Summoning ability for Stamina Sorcerers is a toggle that most of us don't have the bar slots to use.
• Can Bound Armor get a rework? Some classes have the stat increases from both morphs as a passive. Why do we have to give up two bar slots for them?
• Can you take another look at this Streak cost increase? It hurts Stamina Sorcerers much more than it does Magicka Sorcerers.
• Overload is the source of a lot of Sorcerer nerfs, and problems. Would you be willing to change it to a cheap single cast ultimate, and give Magicka Sorcerers more sustained DPS to compensate?

Quoting these because they are all excellent. And adding a follow up to the bound armaments comment.

• Look at how you changed magelight.
• Now look at Bound Armaments
• Now back to magelight.
• One of these skills is no longer a toggle, and grants most all of the benefits passively while slotted and can be used from one bar.
• See anything you can do?

Just in case I have to spell it out.

For Dark Brotherhood: Bound Armaments (The least you can do)

• This ability is no longer a toggle and grants 8% max stamina and minor ward passively while slotted.
• Activating the skill boosts your heavy attack damage by X% for Y seconds.
• You can mirror this for the magicka morph. simple and easy.

Not a very exiting skill is it? But this would be a LIFESAVER of a change for the DB patch. No more terrible toggle. Sorcs could use this to get the important Daedric protection passive. Quality of life would go up sooo much.

Stretch Goal: To keep in mind for the Future (i.e. Not this patch but maybe the next)

Bound Armaments (the dream):

• Grants 8% max stamina and minor ward passively while slotted.
• Activating the skill costs X Magicka and spawns a bound sword (like morkuldin) around the player for Y seconds.
• While the sword is summoned, Player can press the skill again and perform a melee range single target attack for Y seconds costing X STAMINA.
• After Y seconds, the sword vanishes and must be summoned again.

This would give Sorcs a stamina spamable they desparately need that screams sorc. In true sorc fashion, its even a little clunky (because you have to summon it with magicka first, then use stamina to swing) so it fits well with our other sorc skills and ties into bound weapon lore.

I know this is probably too much for this patch but please just give this ability the magelight treatment for this patch and give us our dream bound sword next patch.

I would do horrible horrible things to get that. Originally i wanted minor force to be tied with it. But, i think your idea is much sexier.

What would your proposed bound aegis morph be?

I remember TES sorcs being described as magical batterys. Growing in power the more spells they are hit with or something. That could be an interesting active buff for aegis and would help defense cause of the nerf to hardened ward.

"Become a magical battery absorbing 50% of magical damage done to you for x seconds. After x seconds you overcharge and explode dealing the absorbed damage around you."

Can be cast again to explode on demand or something...."

PainfulFAFA

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom I have a few questions for Wrobel and team.

• Why does Disintegrate, now Implosion, scale off max health? This is not a fun or interesting mechanic, and is extremely inconsistent with most of the rest of the game.
• Stamina Socerers still have the least amount of useful class passives. Are there any plans to update some of the other passives? If not why?
• Surge was the only class defensive ability Stamina Sorcerers had, and changing it to a flat value makes it unusable in Cyrodiil. Can we get one morph of the skill that functions like it currently does on live? If not are there plans to give us more class defensive abilities to compensate?
• Stamina Sorcerers only have one class ability that does damage while every other stamina class has a minimum of three. Are there any plans to correct this ability disparity?
• Dark Exchange is still not useful. Why won't you just remove the cast time?
• Why does the Daedric Protection passive still require a Daedric Summoning ability to be slotted? The only useful Daedric Summoning ability for Stamina Sorcerers is a toggle that most of us don't have the bar slots to use.
• Can Bound Armor get a rework? Some classes have the stat increases from both morphs as a passive. Why do we have to give up two bar slots for them?
• Can you take another look at this Streak cost increase? It hurts Stamina Sorcerers much more than it does Magicka Sorcerers.
• Overload is the source of a lot of Sorcerer nerfs, and problems. Would you be willing to change it to a cheap single cast ultimate, and give Magicka Sorcerers more sustained DPS to compensate?

Quoting these because they are all excellent. And adding a follow up to the bound armaments comment.

• Look at how you changed magelight.
• Now look at Bound Armaments
• Now back to magelight.
• One of these skills is no longer a toggle, and grants most all of the benefits passively while slotted and can be used from one bar.
• See anything you can do?

Just in case I have to spell it out.

For Dark Brotherhood: Bound Armaments (The least you can do)

• This ability is no longer a toggle and grants 8% max stamina and minor ward passively while slotted.
• Activating the skill boosts your heavy attack damage by X% for Y seconds.
• You can mirror this for the magicka morph. simple and easy.

Not a very exiting skill is it? But this would be a LIFESAVER of a change for the DB patch. No more terrible toggle. Sorcs could use this to get the important Daedric protection passive. Quality of life would go up sooo much.

Stretch Goal: To keep in mind for the Future (i.e. Not this patch but maybe the next)

Bound Armaments (the dream):

• Grants 8% max stamina and minor ward passively while slotted.
• Activating the skill costs X Magicka and spawns a bound sword (like morkuldin) around the player for Y seconds.
• While the sword is summoned, Player can press the skill again to wield the sword and perform a melee range single target attack for Y seconds costing X STAMINA.
• After Y seconds, the sword vanishes and must be summoned again.

This would give Sorcs a stamina spamable they desparately need that screams sorc. In true sorc fashion, its even a little clunky (because you have to summon it with magicka first, then use stamina to swing) so it fits well with our other sorc skills and ties into bound weapon lore and even the Daedric Summoning tree.

I know this is probably too much for this patch but please just give this ability the magelight treatment for this patch and give us our dream bound sword next patch.

*salivates*

XaXa

/JoinsInSalivating

Although im interested to know. When summoning this hypothetical sword would it be instant cast? 1 sec cast time? If not imstant does it snare you when casting?

STEVIL

Just not a huge fan of front bar only buffs.

Baharoth77

Thank you Zos for this request for feedback!!!


Ok I actually made a forum account just for this. I am very very very happy with the comunication!!! I would like to say what was done this patch was a good start with the hurricane change and the passive changes.. I think the sorcerer as a whole though has an issue with lackluster Daedric Summoning line. There are just too many toggle abilities. Honestly very few use abilities that require two bars to maintain such as bound armor and the pets seem to be used by many. It leaves you feeling like you have a real lack of choice in your character as you only have so many slots. Your giving up so many bar slots and variety for things that have limited interactivity. Less buttons = less utility and honestly I feel less fun. I don't see many sorcerers running pet builds so I'm guessing I'm not the only one feeling this way.

The pets power level does not scale super well. I have tried them. They are nearly impossible to manage in pvp. The new changes to the pets last patch were welcome but, as I was dying to play a heal sorcerer my pet insta dying to mobs in dungeons and suddenly summoning a pet doesn't work (Note if you spam the button while resummoning the pet trying to get that heal off you just chain summon the pet again and again despawning the previous). . The UI doesn't support pets well as you can't see life bars. They are difficult to control well. The pets need to scale better with all your stats. I would love to tank with a clanfear pet for a heal....However it scales so poorly that it dies all the time. The lowered duration on the ward spells only magnifiy the health scaling issues. You have to gear so far to the left for pet builds as they scale with only max mana and not spellpower for damage that you really limit yourself to one setup. The pets don't scale with Stamina at all making them nearly unusable for a stamina sorcerer thus locking out most of a line. consequently that line is where the major stamina regeneration passive buff is at for using said sorcerer abilities.

Sorry for the wall of text but the entire pet tree that people see as lackluster and honestly less fun for the most part is a huge part of the sorcerer problem. There is just less to mix and match so the power budget is honed into a few abilities. Variety is lacking.

Moving past that the stamina sorcerer.

Less choice is the issue here. People want to be able to vary characters to somewhat feel unique. The Sorcerer to me feels like it is the most pidgeon holded out of every other class due again to the daedreic summoning line. We have one real stamina class ability for damage...Hurricane....Note it looks awesome now!!! This leaves you with generic weapon lines and little build diversity for the stamina sorcerer.

I think the much suggested Crystal fragments morph is a big answer here. Templars have Jabs... Much like flurry from the duel wield line. DKs have Dots and great ults, Nightblades have class execute and gap closer and surprise attack playstyle of the insta attack akin to the sword and board tree. Whats missing is something with a cast time..Like wrecking blow... for the sorc. Frags totally fills that niche (Note sorcerers outside of steak are sorely lacking a stun for the stamina class line. . Summon a huge purple crystal sword and swing down on someone. Doing Damage and stunning... Potential insta cast here like its sister spell would be neat also... Perhaps less damage than flurry wrecking blow etc on the base spell but equivalent damage if you mix in the occasional instacast. ...... BAM now sorcerer has a unique move that makes it feel different. Perhaps you want to slot it for the insta proc and use flurry.... Perhaps you wanna use it on its own. More choices makes for more fun in my opinion.

Other spells I think would be neat to add a stam morph to....Please note I'm spitballing ideas I by no means think they need all of these.....

A stamina morph of liquid lightening. Storm touch. Reach out and bring the winds to bear on your enemy melee range... Add the neat wind swirling rock effect on hurricane basically your putting a localized tornado on the enemy peltering them with debris and wind. Could do lesser dot damage to enemies around the primary target. Don't wanna step on DK toes with too many class dots. However, the aoe dot theme would fit the sorcerer with hurricane in comparison.

Bound Armaments. Give it a castable effect that buffs your weapon to do something cool such as a damage proc or a neat floating weapon that does minor extra damage when it hits. Or perhaps increases dodge chance for a tanking morph.

Turn Ball lightning into a charge....Sorc is the only class without a true gap closer. Yes you can use Streak but your landing position may be a mile away depending on distance. Perhaps make it land behind the target instead of in front of. would be fitting for lightning.

Stamina based clanfear as far as damage scaling. Would love to see health scale also with all pets as mentioned above....

Mages fury stam morph. Could go with an execute. Though in my opinion this would be the more boring choice.

1 or perhaps 2 changes for diversity in the class lines for stam would make me a very happy sorcerer. We don't want overpowered. We want neat and diverse. I think all sorcerers would rejoice if the pet line was made into something more.....

I realize that some of these changes would require work. If it was to take time to get done I'm sure that everyone would be ok with that if it was communicated what you were working on and testing. Hope is a wonderful thing!!!

CP5

Quickly came in and will second what Baharoth77 said. It is so easy to unsummon a pet while trying to cast it then cast its skill. Do pets even need a cast time now that the clannfear doesn't heal on death?

XaXa

I always had a secret wanting for a stam overload morph. (A change to the one that just makes bigger radius)

But instead of being just a stamina type normal overload i always thought it would be cool if it was something like.

Beserker Overload: charge your weapons with the power of the storm. Granting minor brutality, major force, and minor berserk for 10 seconds.

I would love it but would be OP AF i think lol.

(Not seriously recomending this just something i always thought would be cool. I always imagined weapons made of lightning while active)

Minalan

XaXa wrote: »

I always had a secret wanting for a stam overload morph. (A change to the one that just makes bigger radius)

But instead of being just a stamina type normal overload i always thought it would be cool if it was something like.

Beserker Overload: charge your weapons with the power of the storm. Granting minor brutality, major force, and minor berserk for 10 seconds.

I would love it but would be OP AF i think lol.

(Not seriously recomending this just something i always thought would be cool. I always imagined weapons made of lightning while active)

Instead, let Stam sorcs bombard their enemies with boulders. Physical damage. Chance to immobilize.

I like it.

Ipslor

I second the idea of increasing damage of Mage's Wrath and shifting the execution part to Daedric Curse. Great idea, really.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Wow guys thanks for all the feedback and excitement based on my suggestion. Note that most of the conclusions I have come to about the short term and long term fixes for Bound Armaments come from all of the contributors to the Stam Sorc feedback thread. After reading everyone's suggestions and feedback, I just didn't feel that "stam frag," "stam curse," or "stam fury" was an elegant enough solution the direct damage problem. Bound Armaments is already a stam morph so improving it takes nothing away from magicka sorc and could possible improve Bound Aegis as well.

Remember that as cool as the "Final form" of bound armaments idea is, I don't want to lose sight of the short term "magelight treatment" fix we desperately need for Dark Brotherhood. But since I got questions on the "dream change," I will answer them.

XaXa wrote: »

/JoinsInSalivating

Although im interested to know. When summoning this hypothetical sword would it be instant cast? 1 sec cast time? If not imstant does it snare you when casting?

The existing summoning animation for bound armaments is sufficient. No need to even make a new animation. It is instant cast but still has an opportunity cost of one ability cooldown when you summon the sword. Now you have a floating sword around your head for Y seconds that you can either ignore or press the button again costing stamina to swing the sword.

Originally I wanted to simplify the ability to just cost stamina, summon the sword, and use it all in one motion (sort of like how Fighters Guild silver shards summons a crossbow and fires) but I decided to make it a little more complicated, difficult and clunky to fit the general look and feel of the sorcerer class and to pre-empt the lore bears crying when you use stamina to summon a magical weapon. What I wanted to avoid was an overload type situation where you can only use the sword (and nothing else) once cast preventing the use of other weapon abilities or bar swap. This would be too clunky and terrible. We are talking sorcerer here, you have to find the sweet spot of unnecessary complication and difficulty but still have it usable in real time combat.

Having the sword cost magicka when summoned, float around you, then cost stamina to actually wield and perform a single target physical attack solves this problem. Ideally, for the Y seconds that the sword is summoned, you would be able to use any other skill or even switch bars. The BA skill on your ability bar (where you slotted Bound Armaments) would just change to another icon while the sword is summoned (this is similar to what happens to flame lash when it becomes power lash) alerting you that it now costs stamina to use. Pressing the same button again (while the sword is summoned) would then cost stamina and the sword would do physical damage that would scale with the physical CP. Once the summon timer wears out the sword vanishes and then costs X magicka to summon again.

A bound sword, (like from oblivion) that costs magicka to summon then costs stamina and does physical damage when swung. Doesn't that scream sorc?

XaXa wrote: »

I would do horrible horrible things to get that. Originally i wanted minor force to be tied with it. But, i think your idea is much sexier. What would your proposed bound aegis morph be?

I would think that the Bound Aegis would be more of a defensive morph for magicka based DPS or tanks since Bound Armaments is the offensive morph and Armaments literally means weapons. The word Aegis comes from greek Mythology and is Zeus's shield.

This also comes at a good time since shields got nerfed so sorcs are looking toward alternate defensive options. It shouldn't be another damage shield. Ideally I would like it to either absorb damage in some other way or inflict Minor maim on enemies that attack you (similar to dark talons). That would make attackers do 15% less damage against you and would help sorcs with survivability issues now that shields are much weaker.

Here's my idea for Bound Aegis:

• Grants 8% max magicka and Minor Ward passively when slotted. (analogous to armaments)
• When activated creates a floating Aegis (shield) around the player. The shield absorbs a percentage of damage dealt to the player and (actively) returns some of that damage to the attacker while afflicting the attacker with minor maim (15% damage reduction) for Y seconds.

Note this is NOT another damage shield. It more like a pet using the Alliance war guard skill on you. It absorbs a percentage of the damage dealt to you and returns a percentage of that damage back to the attacker while afflicting them with minor maim. I would rather have it return damage actively than store it all up and then explode since a lot of other abilities already do that. Since it only absorbs a percentage, it would not get one-shot like the twilight currently does. It shouldn't be able to be directly targeted anyway but should expire after it absorbs X amount of damage over its Y second lifespan.

What I am trying to do is make smarter "summons" that stick with you, don't run off and do stupid things, and don't get insta gibbed while providing a valuable service. Not all summons in the ESO lore are sentiant creatures. Bound weapons and shields are much cooler, much more controllable, and much more sorc-like. Pet summons are for necromancers not sorcs.

Minalan

Ipslor wrote: »

I second the idea of increasing damage of Mage's Wrath and shifting the execution part to Daedric Curse. Great idea, really.

I'm really 'meh' about that, because mages wrath is really useful when fighting an 8 million HP boss.

Mages wrath is spammable, and explodes for 20K below 18%. Frankly it's needed to quick kill bosses that absolutely "OMFG-rampage-nuke-phase" at a quarter health. Waiting four seconds for an execute is bad, because I can get three off in that time.

cpuScientist

Minalan wrote: »

Ipslor wrote: »

I second the idea of increasing damage of Mage's Wrath and shifting the execution part to Daedric Curse. Great idea, really.

I'm really 'meh' about that, because mages wrath is really useful when fighting an 8 million HP boss.

Mages wrath is spammable, and explodes for 20K below 18%. Frankly it's needed to quick kill bosses that absolutely "OMFG-rampage-nuke-phase" at a quarter health. Waiting four seconds for an execute is bad, because I can get three off in that time.

That's our execute. It needs a buff to bring it in line. But an execute that takes time to blow. No thanks. In PvP that's not really gonna fly unless you time it perfectly Everytime. Nahhhhh it's a neat idea, but not a needed change. We just need mages wrath buffed.

Jar_Ek

@Yolokin_Swagonborn Bound Aegis sounds good with one change... swap the 8% max magicka for health and give the 8% magicka to the new pet summons passive (which I fail to recall the name of. Expert Summoner maybe?).
Then Aegis is viable for stamina tanks and magicka builds, and max magicka is passively given with any summoned pet for magicka builds. More diversity, more options at almost zero cost and minimal unintended consequences.

XaXa

Minalan wrote: »

XaXa wrote: »

I always had a secret wanting for a stam overload morph. (A change to the one that just makes bigger radius)

But instead of being just a stamina type normal overload i always thought it would be cool if it was something like.

Beserker Overload: charge your weapons with the power of the storm. Granting minor brutality, major force, and minor berserk for 10 seconds.

I would love it but would be OP AF i think lol.

(Not seriously recomending this just something i always thought would be cool. I always imagined weapons made of lightning while active)

Instead, let Stam sorcs bombard their enemies with boulders. Physical damage. Chance to immobilize.

I like it.

Would it work as the normal overload now but with rocks?. Or similar to meteor? Either way that sounds cool.

XaXa

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Wow guys thanks for all the feedback and excitement based on my suggestion. Note that most of the conclusions I have come to about the short term and long term fixes for Bound Armaments come from all of the contributors to the Stam Sorc feedback thread. After reading everyone's suggestions and feedback, I just didn't feel that "stam frag," "stam curse," or "stam fury" was an elegant enough solution the direct damage problem. Bound Armaments is already a stam morph so improving it takes nothing away from magicka sorc and could possible improve Bound Aegis as well.

Remember that as cool as the "Final form" of bound armaments idea is, I don't want to lose sight of the short term "magelight treatment" fix we desperately need for Dark Brotherhood. But since I got questions on the "dream change," I will answer them.

XaXa wrote: »

/JoinsInSalivating

Although im interested to know. When summoning this hypothetical sword would it be instant cast? 1 sec cast time? If not imstant does it snare you when casting?

The existing summoning animation for bound armaments is sufficient. No need to even make a new animation. It is instant cast but still has an opportunity cost of one ability cooldown when you summon the sword. Now you have a floating sword around your head for Y seconds that you can either ignore or press the button again costing stamina to swing the sword.

Originally I wanted to simplify the ability to just cost stamina, summon the sword, and use it all in one motion (sort of like how Fighters Guild silver shards summons a crossbow and fires) but I decided to make it a little more complicated, difficult and clunky to fit the general look and feel of the sorcerer class and to pre-empt the lore bears crying when you use stamina to summon a magical weapon. What I wanted to avoid was an overload type situation where you can only use the sword (and nothing else) once cast preventing the use of other weapon abilities or bar swap. This would be too clunky and terrible. We are talking sorcerer here, you have to find the sweet spot of unnecessary complication and difficulty but still have it usable in real time combat.

Having the sword cost magicka when summoned, float around you, then cost stamina to actually wield and perform a single target physical attack solves this problem. Ideally, for the Y seconds that the sword is summoned, you would be able to use any other skill or even switch bars. The BA skill on your ability bar (where you slotted Bound Armaments) would just change to another icon while the sword is summoned (this is similar to what happens to flame lash when it becomes power lash) alerting you that it now costs stamina to use. Pressing the same button again (while the sword is summoned) would then cost stamina and the sword would do physical damage that would scale with the physical CP. Once the summon timer wears out the sword vanishes and then costs X magicka to summon again.

A bound sword, (like from oblivion) that costs magicka to summon then costs stamina and does physical damage when swung. Doesn't that scream sorc?

XaXa wrote: »

I would do horrible horrible things to get that. Originally i wanted minor force to be tied with it. But, i think your idea is much sexier. What would your proposed bound aegis morph be?

I would think that the Bound Aegis would be more of a defensive morph for magicka based DPS or tanks since Bound Armaments is the offensive morph and Armaments literally means weapons. The word Aegis comes from greek Mythology and is Zeus's shield.

This also comes at a good time since shields got nerfed so sorcs are looking toward alternate defensive options. It shouldn't be another damage shield. Ideally I would like it to either absorb damage in some other way or inflict Minor maim on enemies that attack you (similar to dark talons). That would make attackers do 15% less damage against you and would help sorcs with survivability issues now that shields are much weaker.

Here's my idea for Bound Aegis:

• Grants 8% max magicka and Minor Ward passively when slotted. (analogous to armaments)
• When activated creates a floating Aegis (shield) around the player. The shield absorbs a percentage of damage dealt to the player and (actively) returns some of that damage to the attacker while afflicting the attacker with minor maim (15% damage reduction) for Y seconds.

Note this is NOT another damage shield. It more like a pet using the Alliance war guard skill on you. It absorbs a percentage of the damage dealt to you and returns a percentage of that damage back to the attacker while afflicting them with minor maim. I would rather have it return damage actively than store it all up and then explode since a lot of other abilities already do that. Since it only absorbs a percentage, it would not get one-shot like the twilight currently does. It shouldn't be able to be directly targeted anyway but should expire after it absorbs X amount of damage over its Y second lifespan.

What I am trying to do is make smarter "summons" that stick with you, don't run off and do stupid things, and don't get insta gibbed while providing a valuable service. Not all summons in the ESO lore are sentiant creatures. Bound weapons and shields are much cooler, much more controllable, and much more sorc-like. Pet summons are for necromancers not sorcs.

I want. im just picturing a purple Xivkyn sword floating behind the player and it sounds awesome.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Jar_Ek wrote: »

@Yolokin_Swagonborn Bound Aegis sounds good with one change... swap the 8% max magicka for health and give the 8% magicka to the new pet summons passive (which I fail to recall the name of Daedric Protection maybe?).
Then Aegis is viable for stamina tanks and magicka builds, and max magicka is passively given with any summoned pet for magicka builds. More diversity, more options at almost zero cost and minimal unintended consequences.

If you get rid of the 8% magicka for Aegis, you will have protests from the PvE community. No one wants to run pets for endgame PvE and that 8% additional magicka/stamina is one of the few cool unique things sorcs have. It just should be passively granted on the bar like the 5% magicka is for magelight.

XaXa

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Jar_Ek wrote: »

@Yolokin_Swagonborn Bound Aegis sounds good with one change... swap the 8% max magicka for health and give the 8% magicka to the new pet summons passive (which I fail to recall the name of Daedric Protection maybe?).
Then Aegis is viable for stamina tanks and magicka builds, and max magicka is passively given with any summoned pet for magicka builds. More diversity, more options at almost zero cost and minimal unintended consequences.

If you get rid of the 8% magicka for Aegis, you will have protests from the PvE community. No one wants to run pets for endgame PvE and that 8% additional magicka/stamina is one of the few cool unique things sorcs have. It just should be passively granted on the bar like the 5% magicka is for magelight.

Dont remember what DBs passive looks like. But if they gave aegis HP they could always do...

Daedric Summoning: With a daedric summoning skill slotted, Increase hp and stam recovery by 20% and max magicka by 8%



EDIT: just checked. Its expert summoner. I think they could change it to max magicka for having a daedric summoning ability slotted. I think that could do it.


Icantsleep

Jar_Ek

@Yolokin_Swagonborn Whilst I agree many don't want to run pets, the impact of having the health buff on Aegis would be high and make more sense. However the simplest solution would be for Bound Armour to trigger the passive Expert Summoner along with Pets.

Fecius

Choosing between Magicka DPSers for my Trial Group today I would prefer DKs, Templars and NBs over Sorcs. The only reason we have a Sorc in our PvE Trail Group for vMoL is a 3% crit-chance raid-buff from Fragments.

When will be the patch I could pick up Sorcerers over other Magica DPSers? Creating a Sorcerer as my main character more than 2 years ago I was sure that in perfect world Sorcerer should be at least excellent magicka DPS class for Raid PvE. But it's not since beta.

Now Magicka for me looks like:

Best Healers: Templars
Best Tanks: DKs.
Best ranged DPS: NBs.
Best mele DPS: DKs, Templars.

I want some room for a sustain PvE DPS Magicka Sorcerers in Trials.

DDuke

Jar_Ek wrote: »

@Yolokin_Swagonborn Whilst I agree many don't want to run pets, the impact of having the health buff on Aegis would be high and make more sense. However the simplest solution would be for Bound Armour to trigger the passive Daedric Protection along with Pets.

Ehm... Bound Armor does trigger the Daedric Protection passive.


For those complaining about magicka sorc DPS:

https://youtu.be/Bfi1e_2xif4


The potential for high DPS is definitely already there - next patch you can do the same with overlol builds by slotting Elegance set from vSO (+20% dmg on overload light/heavy attacks)

Valrien

DDuke wrote: »

Jar_Ek wrote: »

@Yolokin_Swagonborn Whilst I agree many don't want to run pets, the impact of having the health buff on Aegis would be high and make more sense. However the simplest solution would be for Bound Armour to trigger the passive Daedric Protection along with Pets.

Ehm... Bound Armor does trigger the Daedric Protection passive.


For those complaining about magicka sorc DPS:

https://youtu.be/Bfi1e_2xif4


The potential for high DPS is definitely already there - next patch you can do the same with overlol builds by slotting Elegance set from vSO (+20% dmg on overload light/heavy attacks)

Ha, Overload in vMoL. Funny idea.

Jar_Ek

@DDuke Apologies I meant the Expert Summoner replacement passive not Daedric Protection. Now corrected.

Khaos_Bane

I just wonder what class defining skill @Wrobel is going to take out to the pasture or homogenize giving it to other class in the next DLC. Get your popcorn !

Fecius

DDuke wrote: »

The potential for high DPS is definitely already there - next patch you can do the same with overlol builds by slotting Elegance set from vSO (+20% dmg on overload light/heavy attacks)

Overload in vMoL?! Ok, when you never ult on a trash-packs to have at least 1 min overload for a 5-8 min more or less AOE boss fights it's not a good way to utilise your ultimates.

1000 ultimate points is 5-6 Shooting Stars (170 Ults for one plus ults back for hits) vs 1 min overload... It's just a joke. Not talking about the fact that without using ulty while charging 1000 you are loosing your value on trash encounters.

It doesn't answer my question: why would I take more than ONE Magicka Sorc in my vMoL or vSO Trial Group?

XaXa

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

I just wonder what class defining skill @Wrobel is going to take out to the pasture or homogenize giving it to other class in the next DLC. Get your popcorn !

Please try to keep it constructive. Im as uoset as you are but we have finally gotten some dev interaction. Lets not push them away.