Official Feedback Thread for Sorcerers
-
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭The potential for high DPS is definitely already there - next patch you can do the same with overlol builds by slotting Elegance set from vSO (+20% dmg on overload light/heavy attacks)
Overload in vMoL?! Ok, when you never ult on a trash-packs to have at least 1 min overload for a 5-8 min more or less AOE boss fights it's not a good way to utilise your ultimates.
1000 ultimate points is 5-6 Shooting Stars (170 Ults for one plus ults back for hits) vs 1 min overload... It's just a joke. Not talking about the fact that without using ulty while charging 1000 you are loosing your value on trash encounters.
It doesn't answer my question: why would I take more than ONE Magicka Sorc in my vMoL or vSO Trial Group?
The overload damage is just crazy with Elegance set though - the 5-piece is worth around 1,5k spell damage. We'll see next patch if it's worth it.
As to your question, I think a better one would be: why wouldn't I take more than one magicka sorc? The answer to that isn't that they deal less DPS than other magicka classes, 40k on 2nd bosses (as shown on the video) is comparable to any magicka NB/templar/DK.
Though in all fairness, I havent seen many sorcs (even very experienced ones) pull off those numbers, so maybe it is a bit more difficult than it is for other classes (but you still can reach equal DPS numbers).Edited by DDuke on May 25, 2016 12:47PM0 -
XaXa✭✭✭✭The potential for high DPS is definitely already there - next patch you can do the same with overlol builds by slotting Elegance set from vSO (+20% dmg on overload light/heavy attacks)
Overload in vMoL?! Ok, when you never ult on a trash-packs to have at least 1 min overload for a 5-8 min more or less AOE boss fights it's not a good way to utilise your ultimates.
1000 ultimate points is 5-6 Shooting Stars (170 Ults for one plus ults back for hits) vs 1 min overload... It's just a joke. Not talking about the fact that without using ulty while charging 1000 you are loosing your value on trash encounters.
It doesn't answer my question: why would I take more than ONE Magicka Sorc in my vMoL or vSO Trial Group?
The overload damage is just crazy with Elegance set though - the 5-piece is worth around 1,5k spell damage. We'll see next patch if it's worth it.
As to your question, I think a better one would be: why wouldn't I take more tha one magicka sorc? The answer to that isn't that they deal less DPS than other magicka classes, 40k on 2nd bosses (as shown on the video) is comparable to any magicka NB/templar/DK.
Yes but thats the problem. To get even close to comparative DPS on a boss is is basically REQUIRED we slot overload and spam light attack. every other class has multiple play styles that are effective execpt us.4 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭The potential for high DPS is definitely already there - next patch you can do the same with overlol builds by slotting Elegance set from vSO (+20% dmg on overload light/heavy attacks)
Overload in vMoL?! Ok, when you never ult on a trash-packs to have at least 1 min overload for a 5-8 min more or less AOE boss fights it's not a good way to utilise your ultimates.
1000 ultimate points is 5-6 Shooting Stars (170 Ults for one plus ults back for hits) vs 1 min overload... It's just a joke. Not talking about the fact that without using ulty while charging 1000 you are loosing your value on trash encounters.
It doesn't answer my question: why would I take more than ONE Magicka Sorc in my vMoL or vSO Trial Group?
The overload damage is just crazy with Elegance set though - the 5-piece is worth around 1,5k spell damage. We'll see next patch if it's worth it.
As to your question, I think a better one would be: why wouldn't I take more tha one magicka sorc? The answer to that isn't that they deal less DPS than other magicka classes, 40k on 2nd bosses (as shown on the video) is comparable to any magicka NB/templar/DK.
Yes but thats the problem. To get even close to comparative DPS on a boss is is basically REQUIRED we slot overload and spam light attack. every other class has multiple play styles that are effective execpt us.
Check the video I linked, no Overload used.0 -
Flaminir✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The potential for high DPS is definitely already there - next patch you can do the same with overlol builds by slotting Elegance set from vSO (+20% dmg on overload light/heavy attacks)
Overload in vMoL?! Ok, when you never ult on a trash-packs to have at least 1 min overload for a 5-8 min more or less AOE boss fights it's not a good way to utilise your ultimates.
1000 ultimate points is 5-6 Shooting Stars (170 Ults for one plus ults back for hits) vs 1 min overload... It's just a joke. Not talking about the fact that without using ulty while charging 1000 you are loosing your value on trash encounters.
It doesn't answer my question: why would I take more than ONE Magicka Sorc in my vMoL or vSO Trial Group?
The overload damage is just crazy with Elegance set though - the 5-piece is worth around 1,5k spell damage. We'll see next patch if it's worth it.
As to your question, I think a better one would be: why wouldn't I take more tha one magicka sorc? The answer to that isn't that they deal less DPS than other magicka classes, 40k on 2nd bosses (as shown on the video) is comparable to any magicka NB/templar/DK.
Yes but thats the problem. To get even close to comparative DPS on a boss is is basically REQUIRED we slot overload and spam light attack. every other class has multiple play styles that are effective execpt us.
Check the video I linked, no Overload used.
And as the poster above mentioned.... every class has multiple valid builds.... we have one.
And as you yourself mentioned... the number of sorc's that can pull that off are very very low.
And I'd like to point out, the video in question is in a full raid setup, will full raid buffs, using some of the best players in the world/game.... that kind of niche is possibly the worst way of viewing any kind of issues with any class (Not just sorc's).... it's the most limited way possible of viewing things, and totally ignores all the issues that have been raised in this and all the other sorc threads....
... It's basically saying... look, in perfect circumstances the best player in the world, supported by more of the best players in the world once pulled good dps..... therefore all other issues are void.
GM of the Unholy LegacyEU/EPSorcerer Flaminir (Magicka) / Staminir (Stamina)
Templar Elixiia (Magicka/Healer) / Lotti Velooni (Magicka)
DragonKnight Xalora Flaminar (Tank) / Unholy-Dragon-Toad (Tank)
Nightblade Aimee Owlious (Magicka) / Myttens (Stamina)
Warden: Frosti-Tute (Magicka/Healer) Boops-Many-Snoots (Stamina/Tank)13 -
Ryuho✭✭✭✭The potential for high DPS is definitely already there - next patch you can do the same with overlol builds by slotting Elegance set from vSO (+20% dmg on overload light/heavy attacks)
Overload in vMoL?! Ok, when you never ult on a trash-packs to have at least 1 min overload for a 5-8 min more or less AOE boss fights it's not a good way to utilise your ultimates.
1000 ultimate points is 5-6 Shooting Stars (170 Ults for one plus ults back for hits) vs 1 min overload... It's just a joke. Not talking about the fact that without using ulty while charging 1000 you are loosing your value on trash encounters.
It doesn't answer my question: why would I take more than ONE Magicka Sorc in my vMoL or vSO Trial Group?
The overload damage is just crazy with Elegance set though - the 5-piece is worth around 1,5k spell damage. We'll see next patch if it's worth it.
As to your question, I think a better one would be: why wouldn't I take more tha one magicka sorc? The answer to that isn't that they deal less DPS than other magicka classes, 40k on 2nd bosses (as shown on the video) is comparable to any magicka NB/templar/DK.
Yes but thats the problem. To get even close to comparative DPS on a boss is is basically REQUIRED we slot overload and spam light attack. every other class has multiple play styles that are effective execpt us.
Check the video I linked, no Overload used.
And as the poster above mentioned.... every class has multiple valid builds.... we have one.
And as you yourself mentioned... the number of sorc's that can pull that off are very very low.
And I'd like to point out, the video in question is in a full raid setup, will full raid buffs, using some of the best players in the world/game.... that kind of niche is possibly the worst way of viewing any kind of issues with any class (Not just sorc's).... it's the most limited way possible of viewing things, and totally ignores all the issues that have been raised in this and all the other sorc threads....
... It's basically saying... look, in perfect circumstances the best player in the world, supported by more of the best players in the world once pulled good dps..... therefore all other issues are void.
+ Agree
The Farron family team (EU)
sorcerer - Rubeus Farron AR31
templar - Selene Farron AR27
nightblade - Ryuho Farron AR25
stamplar - Nura Farron AR10
stamsorcerer - Kitty Farron AR14 (adopted member)
DK - Ryu Farron AR17
RETIRED
CU - next mmo0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭The potential for high DPS is definitely already there - next patch you can do the same with overlol builds by slotting Elegance set from vSO (+20% dmg on overload light/heavy attacks)
Overload in vMoL?! Ok, when you never ult on a trash-packs to have at least 1 min overload for a 5-8 min more or less AOE boss fights it's not a good way to utilise your ultimates.
1000 ultimate points is 5-6 Shooting Stars (170 Ults for one plus ults back for hits) vs 1 min overload... It's just a joke. Not talking about the fact that without using ulty while charging 1000 you are loosing your value on trash encounters.
It doesn't answer my question: why would I take more than ONE Magicka Sorc in my vMoL or vSO Trial Group?
The overload damage is just crazy with Elegance set though - the 5-piece is worth around 1,5k spell damage. We'll see next patch if it's worth it.
As to your question, I think a better one would be: why wouldn't I take more tha one magicka sorc? The answer to that isn't that they deal less DPS than other magicka classes, 40k on 2nd bosses (as shown on the video) is comparable to any magicka NB/templar/DK.
Yes but thats the problem. To get even close to comparative DPS on a boss is is basically REQUIRED we slot overload and spam light attack. every other class has multiple play styles that are effective execpt us.
Check the video I linked, no Overload used.
And as the poster above mentioned.... every class has multiple valid builds.... we have one.
And as you yourself mentioned... the number of sorc's that can pull that off are very very low.
And I'd like to point out, the video in question is in a full raid setup, will full raid buffs, using some of the best players in the world/game.... that kind of niche is possibly the worst way of viewing any kind of issues with any class (Not just sorc's).... it's the most limited way possible of viewing things, and totally ignores all the issues that have been raised in this and all the other sorc threads....
... It's basically saying... look, in perfect circumstances the best player in the world, supported by more of the best players in the world once pulled good dps..... therefore all other issues are void.
Yes, I agree with that.
It should be made easier for magicka sorcs to pull off good DPS - but what I want to stress is that they shouldn't just straight out buff the DPS because then players like the one in this video start grossly outperforming other classes/builds in terms of DPS.
A repeat of the current stam DK>other stam builds scenario, except for magicka builds.0 -
Foxic✭✭✭✭✭The potential for high DPS is definitely already there - next patch you can do the same with overlol builds by slotting Elegance set from vSO (+20% dmg on overload light/heavy attacks)
Overload in vMoL?! Ok, when you never ult on a trash-packs to have at least 1 min overload for a 5-8 min more or less AOE boss fights it's not a good way to utilise your ultimates.
1000 ultimate points is 5-6 Shooting Stars (170 Ults for one plus ults back for hits) vs 1 min overload... It's just a joke. Not talking about the fact that without using ulty while charging 1000 you are loosing your value on trash encounters.
It doesn't answer my question: why would I take more than ONE Magicka Sorc in my vMoL or vSO Trial Group?
The overload damage is just crazy with Elegance set though - the 5-piece is worth around 1,5k spell damage. We'll see next patch if it's worth it.
As to your question, I think a better one would be: why wouldn't I take more tha one magicka sorc? The answer to that isn't that they deal less DPS than other magicka classes, 40k on 2nd bosses (as shown on the video) is comparable to any magicka NB/templar/DK.
Yes but thats the problem. To get even close to comparative DPS on a boss is is basically REQUIRED we slot overload and spam light attack. every other class has multiple play styles that are effective execpt us.
Check the video I linked, no Overload used.
And as the poster above mentioned.... every class has multiple valid builds.... we have one.
And as you yourself mentioned... the number of sorc's that can pull that off are very very low.
And I'd like to point out, the video in question is in a full raid setup, will full raid buffs, using some of the best players in the world/game.... that kind of niche is possibly the worst way of viewing any kind of issues with any class (Not just sorc's).... it's the most limited way possible of viewing things, and totally ignores all the issues that have been raised in this and all the other sorc threads....
... It's basically saying... look, in perfect circumstances the best player in the world, supported by more of the best players in the world once pulled good dps..... therefore all other issues are void.
Yes, I agree with that.
It should be made easier for magicka sorcs to pull off good DPS - but what I want to stress is that they shouldn't just straight out buff the DPS because then players like the one in this video start grossly outperforming other classes/builds in terms of DPS.
A repeat of the current stam DK>other stam builds scenario, except for magicka builds.
I don't think that the problem is that sorcs have bad dps. As you have shown, sorcerers can be competitive. In my opinion the problem is that sorcs have average dps, awful sustain and next to no group utility. All of these three things together is what makes sorcs less desirable. This comes from a sorc who can only justify taking his sorc to a raid to be the minor prophecy boyMechanically Challenged, PCNA competitive raid guild
Head of The Council of Raiders
First NA vAS Hardmode(#2 world)
World First Immortal Redeemer & Saintly Savior
All #1 Trial scores Clockwork City patch2 -
Fecius✭✭✭Though in all fairness, I havent seen many sorcs (even very experienced ones) pull off those numbers, so maybe it is a bit more difficult than it is for other classes (but you still can reach equal DPS numbers).
But the thing is that in same situation in the same raid setup DKs, NBs and Templars can show on average 10% more DPS! Every raid the same picture:
1. Sorc: "Yay, I've got 20k DPS!", NB: "Heh, 25k, deal with it!", DK: "23k and I was pulling mobs".
2. Sorc: "Yay, I've improved a lot, now my DPS is 30k!", NB: "35k, deal with it!", Templars: "37k and I was just pressing execute since 50% HP".
3. ...
I hope you can see my point, I'm not talking about "I can't reach 40k DPS", instead "Any high result I can reach as Sorc can be beaten with other Magicka classes".
P.S.: Just look at this! 1st place in recap is EXECUTE, WOOT?!
Edited by Fecius on May 25, 2016 1:42PM- Looking for Progress PvE Guild!
- Ex Ætherius Eight / Ætherius Raid PC EU
- World First Sanctum Ophidia Difficult Mode (1.5.8 at January 21, 2015)
- PvE Dunmer Magicka Sorcerer
- YouTube
- Under sun and sky Outlander, we greet you warmly!
- Под этим Солнцем и небом мы тепло приветствуем тебя!3 -
Grao✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Yolokin_Swagonborn Whilst I agree many don't want to run pets, the impact of having the health buff on Aegis would be high and make more sense. However the simplest solution would be for Bound Armour to trigger the passive Expert Summoner along with Pets.
The idea of swapping the Magicka increase to Expert summoner is precisely to encourage DPSers to use the DPS pet. If you gain the Magicka by simply having the creature slotted, than what is the harm of starting the fight with your Pet out? It is an extra DoT... If you don't care about the pet, let it die, it will still have done some damage before it goes poof...2 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Though in all fairness, I havent seen many sorcs (even very experienced ones) pull off those numbers, so maybe it is a bit more difficult than it is for other classes (but you still can reach equal DPS numbers).
But the thing is that in same situation in the same raid setup DKs, NBs and Templars can show on average 10% more DPS! Every raid the same picture:
1. Sorc: "Yay, I've got 20k DPS!", NB: "Heh, 25k, deal with it!", DK: "23k and I was pulling mobs".
2. Sorc: "Yay, I've improved a lot, now my DPS is 30k!", NB: "35k, deal with it!", Templars: "37k and I was just pressing execute since 50% HP".
3. ...
I hope you can see my point, I'm not talking about "I can't reach 40k DPS", instead "Any high result I can reach as Sorc can be beaten with other Magicka classes".
Best I've seen magicka NB pull on that particular encounter is 38-39k, for magicka templar I've seen 42k DPS once.
I think saying "other magicka builds get more DPS" isn't really that close to reality.Edited by DDuke on May 25, 2016 1:44PM0 -
Grao✭✭✭✭✭
✭The potential for high DPS is definitely already there - next patch you can do the same with overlol builds by slotting Elegance set from vSO (+20% dmg on overload light/heavy attacks)
Overload in vMoL?! Ok, when you never ult on a trash-packs to have at least 1 min overload for a 5-8 min more or less AOE boss fights it's not a good way to utilise your ultimates.
1000 ultimate points is 5-6 Shooting Stars (170 Ults for one plus ults back for hits) vs 1 min overload... It's just a joke. Not talking about the fact that without using ulty while charging 1000 you are loosing your value on trash encounters.
It doesn't answer my question: why would I take more than ONE Magicka Sorc in my vMoL or vSO Trial Group?
That is precisely the problem we face right now. Sorcerers don't have the reliable damage or the utility to be needed in a raid. I assume you take the one sorcerer for the minor critical buff and that is it, correct?0 -
holosoul✭✭✭✭Best I've seen magicka NB pull on that particular encounter is 38-39k, for magicka templar I've seen 42k DPS once.
I think saying "other magicka builds get more DPS" isn't really that close to reality.
Except you weren't in the raid of that video.
Are you implying the only sorc in the raid was their #1 DPS?
No, even in "your" raids, the NBs that are not world class are getting the same DPS as that world best sorc video.2 -
Fecius✭✭✭The potential for high DPS is definitely already there - next patch you can do the same with overlol builds by slotting Elegance set from vSO (+20% dmg on overload light/heavy attacks)
Overload in vMoL?! Ok, when you never ult on a trash-packs to have at least 1 min overload for a 5-8 min more or less AOE boss fights it's not a good way to utilise your ultimates.
1000 ultimate points is 5-6 Shooting Stars (170 Ults for one plus ults back for hits) vs 1 min overload... It's just a joke. Not talking about the fact that without using ulty while charging 1000 you are loosing your value on trash encounters.
It doesn't answer my question: why would I take more than ONE Magicka Sorc in my vMoL or vSO Trial Group?
That is precisely the problem we face right now. Sorcerers don't have the reliable damage or the utility to be needed in a raid. I assume you take the one sorcerer for the minor critical buff and that is it, correct?
Yep.Though in all fairness, I havent seen many sorcs (even very experienced ones) pull off those numbers, so maybe it is a bit more difficult than it is for other classes (but you still can reach equal DPS numbers).
But the thing is that in same situation in the same raid setup DKs, NBs and Templars can show on average 10% more DPS! Every raid the same picture:
1. Sorc: "Yay, I've got 20k DPS!", NB: "Heh, 25k, deal with it!", DK: "23k and I was pulling mobs".
2. Sorc: "Yay, I've improved a lot, now my DPS is 30k!", NB: "35k, deal with it!", Templars: "37k and I was just pressing execute since 50% HP".
3. ...
I hope you can see my point, I'm not talking about "I can't reach 40k DPS", instead "Any high result I can reach as Sorc can be beaten with other Magicka classes".
Best I've seen magicka NB pull on that particular encounter is 38-39k, for magicka templar I've seen 42k DPS once.
I think saying "other magicka builds get more DPS" isn't really that close to reality.
I can answer you same way. This is the only video with 39k Sorc I've ever seen. Maybe he is just a hell lucky in this video with enemy positioning and crits and he's average DPS is 33-36k. I've got a statistic for our raid from 2 different sorcs vs other magica classes since vMoL PTS. And it's more like I said a post before this.- Looking for Progress PvE Guild!
- Ex Ætherius Eight / Ætherius Raid PC EU
- World First Sanctum Ophidia Difficult Mode (1.5.8 at January 21, 2015)
- PvE Dunmer Magicka Sorcerer
- YouTube
- Under sun and sky Outlander, we greet you warmly!
- Под этим Солнцем и небом мы тепло приветствуем тебя!0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Best I've seen magicka NB pull on that particular encounter is 38-39k, for magicka templar I've seen 42k DPS once.
I think saying "other magicka builds get more DPS" isn't really that close to reality.
Except you weren't in the raid of that video.
Are you implying the only sorc in the raid was their #1 DPS?
No, even in "your" raids, the NBs that are not world class are getting the same DPS as that world best sorc video.
No, but I seriously doubt their raid DPS is much different than our own and 39k is pretty much as good as you can hope for as magicka build. Maybe magplars can get a little bit more, magicka NBs sure can't (prove me wrong, please).
Won't comment on magicka DKs, because they've all rerolled stamina.0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Though in all fairness, I havent seen many sorcs (even very experienced ones) pull off those numbers, so maybe it is a bit more difficult than it is for other classes (but you still can reach equal DPS numbers).
But the thing is that in same situation in the same raid setup DKs, NBs and Templars can show on average 10% more DPS! Every raid the same picture:
1. Sorc: "Yay, I've got 20k DPS!", NB: "Heh, 25k, deal with it!", DK: "23k and I was pulling mobs".
2. Sorc: "Yay, I've improved a lot, now my DPS is 30k!", NB: "35k, deal with it!", Templars: "37k and I was just pressing execute since 50% HP".
3. ...
I hope you can see my point, I'm not talking about "I can't reach 40k DPS", instead "Any high result I can reach as Sorc can be beaten with other Magicka classes".
Best I've seen magicka NB pull on that particular encounter is 38-39k, for magicka templar I've seen 42k DPS once.
I think saying "other magicka builds get more DPS" isn't really that close to reality.
I can answer you same way. This is the only video with 39k Sorc I've ever seen. Maybe he is just a hell lucky in this video with enemy positioning and crits and he's average DPS is 33-36k. I've got a statistic for our raid from 2 different sorcs vs other magica classes since vMoL PTS. And it's more like I said a post before this.
Well, all I've got to say is that maybe magicka sorcs need to examine & theorycraft with their builds more.
If you can reach 39k DPS, then there is absolutely nothing wrong with the damage you can deal.
How easy it is to reach that number, that could be tweaked. But you don't do that by just slapping a overall damage buff to sorcerers affecting all of them (including the ones already doing competitive DPS).
That's how you end up with the "stamina DK" scenario with one class/build being grossly stronger than others.Edited by DDuke on May 25, 2016 2:11PM3 -
SorataArisugawa✭✭✭✭✭Best I've seen magicka NB pull on that particular encounter is 38-39k, for magicka templar I've seen 42k DPS once.
I think saying "other magicka builds get more DPS" isn't really that close to reality.
Except you weren't in the raid of that video.
Are you implying the only sorc in the raid was their #1 DPS?
No, even in "your" raids, the NBs that are not world class are getting the same DPS as that world best sorc video.
No, but I seriously doubt their raid DPS is much different than our own and 39k is pretty much as good as you can hope for as magicka build. Maybe magplars can get a little bit more, magicka NBs sure can't (prove me wrong, please).
Won't comment on magicka DKs, because they've all rerolled stamina.
Yeah just because you doubt that, it doesn't make it true. I don't want to be offensive, but without the numbers of the others we don't know anything. If every buff and debuff and everything else was perfect could increase the DPS of the others as well above your 39k. So the problem remains.PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!3 -
XaXa✭✭✭✭Hopefully we get the dev commentary today.
Super excited to finally see what the combat teams vision for both magicka and stamina sorcs are.
@ZOS_JessicaFolsomEdited by XaXa on May 25, 2016 2:26PM1 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭SorataArisugawa wrote: »Best I've seen magicka NB pull on that particular encounter is 38-39k, for magicka templar I've seen 42k DPS once.
I think saying "other magicka builds get more DPS" isn't really that close to reality.
Except you weren't in the raid of that video.
Are you implying the only sorc in the raid was their #1 DPS?
No, even in "your" raids, the NBs that are not world class are getting the same DPS as that world best sorc video.
No, but I seriously doubt their raid DPS is much different than our own and 39k is pretty much as good as you can hope for as magicka build. Maybe magplars can get a little bit more, magicka NBs sure can't (prove me wrong, please).
Won't comment on magicka DKs, because they've all rerolled stamina.
Yeah just because you doubt that, it doesn't make it true. I don't want to be offensive, but without the numbers of the others we don't know anything. If every buff and debuff and everything else was perfect could increase the DPS of the others as well above your 39k. So the problem remains.
Just like someone claiming magicka sorc dps sucks doesn't make it true.
Atleast I've provided proof to back up my argument that magicka sorc DPS is fine, no matter how incomplete that proof is.
The reason I doubt that their average magicka DPS is 40k+ is because afaik not even Hodor is doing that at the moment (and they have much higher vMoL score than Crown Store Heroes).Edited by DDuke on May 25, 2016 2:41PM3 -
NativeJoe✭✭✭✭✭Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »Master_Kas wrote: »WTB un-nerfed bolt escape please.
I main a nightblade, and want this to happen.
Best of luck ::)
That would be amazing.
Bolt escape is easy to fix. Anytime you stun someone with the skill or damage someone with streak, it removes the cooldown. This would encourage sorcs to stay in the fight, but still punish those that just try to port across the map.
This rewards sorcs that stay in the fight and would be a huge help for stam sorcs as well since bolt escape, the defining sorc move, has been made even more expensive for stam sorcs due to changes to the expert mage passive.
It's not like bolt escape is even that powerful anymore. It's movement mechanics and streak distance has been nerfed so many times. Add that to the gap closer perma snare and if you can't catch a sorc these days with gap closer spam you probably don't have one slotted.
Trust me, u still can streak a LOT. Only thing needed to perform blinking like mad is nice amount of magicka recovery, with 2.5k magicka recovery u can do it esy.. Combo streak with major expedition from lightning armor and u can esy escape zerglins.. Kiting and killing noobs which follow u..
Also 3 streaks in a row are not noticable if ur mana pool is 40k mana. 4th streak starts to hurt ur magcika and so on.. blink 2 times, major expedition + sprint, blink 2 times more, remember to use immovable pots.. good bye zerglings
Good idea is also switching to drinks when u are escaping to boost ur m.recovery to 3k +
Or they just slot poisons next patch and ur build is done. Poisons are the Zergers form of proxy vs single elites.650cp+ Sorcerer 100+ days /played
Broken'Stick North American Server
https://www.twitch.tv/trixytricks0 -
XaXa✭✭✭✭Remember guys lets keep it civil.
Not calling anyone out i just want to make sure we dont start a massive internet argument. Its fine to disagree but keep it constructive.
Weve crawled out of the toxicity and are doing a great job at showing the Devs how well we have recovered and that we are able to talk professionally. Lets keep up the good work. 2 -
Grao✭✭✭✭✭
✭SorataArisugawa wrote: »Best I've seen magicka NB pull on that particular encounter is 38-39k, for magicka templar I've seen 42k DPS once.
I think saying "other magicka builds get more DPS" isn't really that close to reality.
Except you weren't in the raid of that video.
Are you implying the only sorc in the raid was their #1 DPS?
No, even in "your" raids, the NBs that are not world class are getting the same DPS as that world best sorc video.
No, but I seriously doubt their raid DPS is much different than our own and 39k is pretty much as good as you can hope for as magicka build. Maybe magplars can get a little bit more, magicka NBs sure can't (prove me wrong, please).
Won't comment on magicka DKs, because they've all rerolled stamina.
Yeah just because you doubt that, it doesn't make it true. I don't want to be offensive, but without the numbers of the others we don't know anything. If every buff and debuff and everything else was perfect could increase the DPS of the others as well above your 39k. So the problem remains.
Just like someone claiming magicka sorc dps sucks doesn't make it true.
Atleast I've provided proof to back up my argument that magicka sorc DPS is fine, no matter how incomplete that proof is.
The reason I doubt that their average magicka DPS is 40k+ is because afaik not even Hodor is doing that at the moment (and they have much higher vMoL score than Crown Store Heroes).
There is no arguing against the DPS ceiling for each class though. Sorcerers can achieve a maximum DPS of about 40 - 41k DPS while other classes, under their optimal circumstances can reach values between 45k and 55k. At the same time those classes that do have stronger DPS options also have Utility that by far outshines a Sorcerer's utility, thus there is a clear balance issue.
Why would a raid take more than one sorcerer when at best their DPS can maybe match the other classes, but at the same time they provide so very little class utility? Until sorcerers offer more to the group in terms of DPS or Utility it is far better to bring an extra Stamina DK with absurd DPS or a Templar / Nightblade with Nova / Veil.2 -
ZOS_JessicaFolsomCommunity ManagerOne more update for you all: The Combat team is working on answers to the initial batch of 15 questions we sent them, but they're also working around the clock to get the last few things into the Dark Brotherhood patch before we launch on PC/Mac next week. So, answers are coming, it just may be another day or two.5 -
Grao✭✭✭✭✭
✭ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »One more update for you all: The Combat team is working on answers to the initial batch of 15 questions we sent them, but they're also working around the clock to get the last few things into the Dark Brotherhood patch before we launch on PC/Mac next week. So, answers are coming, it just may be another day or two.
Thanks for keeping us up to date @ZOS_JessicaFolsom. I hope the answers we get can clarify where sorcerers are supposed to shine in this game and that this last minute changes can improve the class as it currently feels very underwhelming when compared to other classes.1 -
XaXa✭✭✭✭ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »One more update for you all: The Combat team is working on answers to the initial batch of 15 questions we sent them, but they're also working around the clock to get the last few things into the Dark Brotherhood patch before we launch on PC/Mac next week. So, answers are coming, it just may be another day or two.
Thanks for the info @ZOS_JessicaFolsom!
You are doing a great job! Keep up the good work!0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭SorataArisugawa wrote: »Best I've seen magicka NB pull on that particular encounter is 38-39k, for magicka templar I've seen 42k DPS once.
I think saying "other magicka builds get more DPS" isn't really that close to reality.
Except you weren't in the raid of that video.
Are you implying the only sorc in the raid was their #1 DPS?
No, even in "your" raids, the NBs that are not world class are getting the same DPS as that world best sorc video.
No, but I seriously doubt their raid DPS is much different than our own and 39k is pretty much as good as you can hope for as magicka build. Maybe magplars can get a little bit more, magicka NBs sure can't (prove me wrong, please).
Won't comment on magicka DKs, because they've all rerolled stamina.
Yeah just because you doubt that, it doesn't make it true. I don't want to be offensive, but without the numbers of the others we don't know anything. If every buff and debuff and everything else was perfect could increase the DPS of the others as well above your 39k. So the problem remains.
Just like someone claiming magicka sorc dps sucks doesn't make it true.
Atleast I've provided proof to back up my argument that magicka sorc DPS is fine, no matter how incomplete that proof is.
The reason I doubt that their average magicka DPS is 40k+ is because afaik not even Hodor is doing that at the moment (and they have much higher vMoL score than Crown Store Heroes).
There is no arguing against the DPS ceiling for each class though. Sorcerers can achieve a maximum DPS of about 40 - 41k DPS while other classes, under their optimal circumstances can reach values between 45k and 55k. At the same time those classes that do have stronger DPS options also have Utility that by far outshines a Sorcerer's utility, thus there is a clear balance issue.
Why would a raid take more than one sorcerer when at best their DPS can maybe match the other classes, but at the same time they provide so very little class utility? Until sorcerers offer more to the group in terms of DPS or Utility it is far better to bring an extra Stamina DK with absurd DPS or a Templar / Nightblade with Nova / Veil.
I won't comment on the group utility, maybe sorcs could use more of that but... 45k-55k DPS at vMoL 2nd bosses?
I'd like to see which class/build does that, because the highest I've seen is a 42k from magicka templar.
The exact point I've been trying to make is that sorcs have pretty much the same "DPS ceiling" as other magicka builds, maybe slightly behind magicka templars (and slightly ahead of magicka NBs).
Raising that DPS ceiling for magicka sorcs would just make them better than others - kind of like stamina DKs are compared to other stamina classes. That is not balance. As a person who mains a stamina nightblade, it is not something I would wish for anyone on the magicka side to endure.
If anything, they should make it easier to reach that "DPS ceiling" for sorcs, but they should not raise it per se by just simply increasing DPS (which already is fine when played correctly).Edited by DDuke on May 25, 2016 3:00PM0 -
ZOS_JessicaFolsomCommunity ManagerZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »One more update for you all: The Combat team is working on answers to the initial batch of 15 questions we sent them, but they're also working around the clock to get the last few things into the Dark Brotherhood patch before we launch on PC/Mac next week. So, answers are coming, it just may be another day or two.
Thanks for keeping us up to date @ZOS_JessicaFolsom. I hope the answers we get can clarify where sorcerers are supposed to shine in this game and that this last minute changes can improve the class as it currently feels very underwhelming when compared to other classes.
Most of the questions we initially pulled were from @Flaminir's post, with a few more added in that were a bit more specifically about the Dark Brotherhood changes for Sorcerers. There were a lot of really good general questions, too, that we'll look at answering after this first batch.1 -
NativeJoe✭✭✭✭✭Not sure if Jessica went far back enough to see my post, so I'll quote it below.A few notes regarding the winged twilight and familiar pets.
The casting time for these abilities is entirely too long considering the flaws with the AI, and their poor survivability. Decreasing the casting time to 1 second would be a step in the right direction, but .5 - .8 seems appropriate.
Currently on live, the pet damage boost feature of daedric prey does not affect the damage of the volatile familiar's pulse ability. Is this intended? The death explosion it used to have was never affected by prey or empowering ward either, but I always figured that was because the scamp died and therefore no longer had those buffs.
Are there any plans to introduce health bars for the pets in the UI? Would it be possible for these bars to display the pets' remaining damage shield?
Is there a timeline for when we can expect the pets to benefit from champion points?
When using Y+RMB, the twilight and familiar seem to disengage appropriately. However, the atronach sometimes does not (it also does not always go after the target on which the caster uses Y+LMB), and the daedroth from the maw of the infernal set completely doesn't disengage. The daedroth isn't too much of an issue because it doesn't last long, has poor survivability, can be CCed, and has short range (all of which need are areas that need improvement); however, it's embarrassing when I'm participating in organized duels using this set, and it and the atronach interrupt other duels. Are there any plans to make them more obedient?
The pets completely stop functioning in lag. I use the latency display feature of the default UI, and my pets will stop performing all actions (or disappear entirely) even when the ping rate is less than 200. It is extremely frustrating to find yourself fighting an enemy player, wondering why you're not being healed by the twilight or seeing the scamp's pulses, only to realize they're a mile away stuck in one place. They take up 6 ability slots (including the overload bar). I am at a severe disadvantage when they stop working but everything else in the game seems to functioning well enough.
These flaws and more make these abilities difficult to use effectively and incredibly expensive, while also making this playstyle unviable for a lot of endgame content. These tremendous costs warrant attention to these abilities.
In addition, as many people have said, the pets need more HP and defense. The twilight can literally be one-shotted because she only has about 10k health. In pve, my already low dps with a pet build will be decreased further by having to recast their shield every 6 seconds.
Also, the pets' stealth mechanic still isn't working properly. They still remain visible even though they appear to be in stealth on my end.
ditto ... my pets remain visible randomly as well. So I won't be welcome in Zergs. Not that I would be anyway since I have the weakest defense without spamming all my magicka away and I'm basically a walking time bomb for the group because of VD.
idk of anyway to express how screwed we are lol... I've written probably a good sized novel by now on the topic. so I'm pretty much done explaining it.650cp+ Sorcerer 100+ days /played
Broken'Stick North American Server
https://www.twitch.tv/trixytricks1 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Thanks for the update @ZOS_JessicaFolsom !
Do you still plan on taking questions from other classes too after Sorcs?0 -
ZOS_JessicaFolsomCommunity ManagerDo you still plan on taking questions from other classes too after Sorcs?
Yes, though realistically it's going to be after the Dark Brotherhood PC/Mac launch. We'll likely spin up a new thread in each class's forum area and take questions from there.
2