Official Feedback Thread for Sorcerers

Natas013

I just don't understand why they even introduced battle spirit if they're not going to use it to balance PvP. Block casting is an issue in PvP, nerf stam regen everywhere. Streak is op in PvP, increase repeated use cost everywhere. Shield stacking is a major issue in PvP, well shields don't last as long as given most of the time so let's cut the time to that AND make the problem worse by giving sorcs access to a second shield that blocks all damage types. Who cares that this means PvE sorcs will have to add expensive shields to their rotations, further taxing resources so they have to weave in more heavy attacks, and reducing their already laughable dps to ROFL levels. I'm honestly waiting on that unbreakable cc to be added to sorcs tool kit.

Passive: the big joke. Casting any sorc ability has a 5%/10% chance to cause your enemy to ROFL uncontrollably. This cc is unbreakable and doesn't give cc immunity, and can only be stopped by taking damage from non sorcs.

I joke of course but sure feels that way.

Rakkul

jknight201 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Gentlemen, it looks like we get 10 seconds on empowered ward now (the pet morph).

With 'Anulment' stacked on top of that, it works for PVE and PVP. It means we don't get instantly crit-killed in a fight after five seconds, and we can do most PVE content without dying constantly.

It's not perfect, but I'll take it at this point. At least it's a good reason to use empowered ward.

And so the prophesy comes true. Zos destroys a class ability (Ward) and then gives a tiny bit back to make it just a little less worthless and people fawn over how great it is that Zos "fixed" the problem. No, just no.

Ward is still seriously nerfed, and a 6 to 10 second change is really not a fix to the problem Zos created.

You could carve this in stone as the 11th commandment. If you want to nerf something in an mmo: make it very bad, then just make it bad - and the people will praise you."

Grao

Derra wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Lets just make a huge offering to Molag Bal and hope he can fix sorcs, as zenimax apparently can't.

Maybe a offering to Hircine so he can hunt down the Devs for us. Is there a Daedric Prince of lost causes?

When looking at the changes mr. W might actually be Sheogoraths heir and we´re all victim of his madness.

You may be right. @Wrobel, are you a follower of Sheogorath???

Grao

Natas013 wrote: »

I just don't understand why they even introduced battle spirit if they're not going to use it to balance PvP. Block casting is an issue in PvP, nerf stam regen everywhere. Streak is op in PvP, increase repeated use cost everywhere. Shield stacking is a major issue in PvP, well shields don't last as long as given most of the time so let's cut the time to that AND make the problem worse by giving sorcs access to a second shield that blocks all damage types. Who cares that this means PvE sorcs will have to add expensive shields to their rotations, further taxing resources so they have to weave in more heavy attacks, and reducing their already laughable dps to ROFL levels. I'm honestly waiting on that unbreakable cc to be added to sorcs tool kit.

Passive: the big joke. Casting any sorc ability has a 5%/10% chance to cause your enemy to ROFL uncontrollably. This cc is unbreakable and doesn't give cc immunity, and can only be stopped by taking damage from non sorcs.

I joke of course but sure feels that way.

Meanwhile PvE sorcerers drown and die...

Grao

Rakkul wrote: »

jknight201 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Gentlemen, it looks like we get 10 seconds on empowered ward now (the pet morph).

With 'Anulment' stacked on top of that, it works for PVE and PVP. It means we don't get instantly crit-killed in a fight after five seconds, and we can do most PVE content without dying constantly.

It's not perfect, but I'll take it at this point. At least it's a good reason to use empowered ward.

And so the prophesy comes true. Zos destroys a class ability (Ward) and then gives a tiny bit back to make it just a little less worthless and people fawn over how great it is that Zos "fixed" the problem. No, just no.

Ward is still seriously nerfed, and a 6 to 10 second change is really not a fix to the problem Zos created.

You could carve this in stone as the 11th commandment. If you want to nerf something in an mmo: make it very bad, then just make it bad - and the people will praise you."

Sadly true.

jeskah

Grao wrote: »

Rakkul wrote: »

jknight201 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Gentlemen, it looks like we get 10 seconds on empowered ward now (the pet morph).

With 'Anulment' stacked on top of that, it works for PVE and PVP. It means we don't get instantly crit-killed in a fight after five seconds, and we can do most PVE content without dying constantly.

It's not perfect, but I'll take it at this point. At least it's a good reason to use empowered ward.

And so the prophesy comes true. Zos destroys a class ability (Ward) and then gives a tiny bit back to make it just a little less worthless and people fawn over how great it is that Zos "fixed" the problem. No, just no.

Ward is still seriously nerfed, and a 6 to 10 second change is really not a fix to the problem Zos created.

You could carve this in stone as the 11th commandment. If you want to nerf something in an mmo: make it very bad, then just make it bad - and the people will praise you."

Sadly true.

Dont think so. IMHO the ward and the surge changes are a delayed result of vMA. Mostly the ward changes. Right now ,they are iterating, hence the duration change (and the bone shield reversal - they ara somewhat afraid of the shield play), and, in case of the surge, bugfixing. In case of surge, i still hope some further iteration, maybe trough the CD or the fixed amount of heal (Honestly, im not a fan of this flat amount of heal thing, but hey, at least its not a percent of health... yet).

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam: still hoping a bound aegis change in this patch cycle.

Lucky28

Minalan wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

LOL 5 sorcerer threads with about 2000 posts with all put together and no answer... What do they choose to answer to?

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2985195#Comment_2985195

This. Werewolf fur recoloring...

To be fair, they already answered us. "Duh dur. We think you should be offensive or defensive! Not both. Dur hur..."

They aren't going to change their tiny myopic little minds until dismal sales figures and anemic subscriptions force their hand.

that's just stupid tho. i mean if you don't want people to have defense and offense at the same time Why the *** did you make content that requires high defense and high offense (VMA) these devs..... i don't know what's wrong with them.

code65536

Lucky28 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

LOL 5 sorcerer threads with about 2000 posts with all put together and no answer... What do they choose to answer to?

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2985195#Comment_2985195

This. Werewolf fur recoloring...

To be fair, they already answered us. "Duh dur. We think you should be offensive or defensive! Not both. Dur hur..."

They aren't going to change their tiny myopic little minds until dismal sales figures and anemic subscriptions force their hand.

that's just stupid tho. i mean if you don't want people to have defense and offense at the same time Why the *** did you make content that requires high defense and high offense (VMA) these devs..... i don't know what's wrong with them.

To be fair, though, the team designing the dungeons, trials, and arenas isn't the same team making these "balancing" decisions. The dungeon team has stated in the past that they tune the difficulty based on what people are capable of doing. The problem, of course, is that now that they have tuned the difficulty around what people could do at Orsinium's launch, they're not likely to re-tune it for the nerfage of one class.

TheHsN

Sorcerer in this patch is disappointment...

-WE already use as main dps ForcePulse WHICH is Destruction weapon line skill not our own one...And it costs ALOT

-But NB is using swallow soul or surprise attack - Costs almost nothing
-Dk has whip - Costs almost nothing
-Temlar again his own skill line - Costs almost again nothing....

-making good dps is vry hard u need all buffs from warhorn and spell cure buffs with another buffs from resto staff...
-we have only boring overload ....
- Mages Wrath is the worst finisher
- now they took power surge to powerless surge
- Took hardened ward and harness magicka...

Class is sooooooo boring to play now...I cant understand why they destroy their own beauty with their own hand ....

hope they fix things before they break it all.. (before the DB gets live)

YoloWizard

New bug
- Suppression Field (morph of Negate) damage does NOT crit at all

Bugs that still exists
- Implosion (Formerly Disintegrate) damage still does NOT crit at all (both physical and shock procs).
- Mages' Wrath Explosion splits its full damage between Enemy mobs. If explosion deals 30k damage on a boss, it will deal 15k on each if there is a mob standing next to the boss instead of full 30k on boss and little bit damage on the mob.

For more details
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/263210/sorcerers-execute-disintegrate-passive-suppression-field-bugs/p1

Grao

YoloWizard wrote: »

New bug
- Suppression Field (morph of Negate) damage does NOT crit at all

Bugs that still exists
- Implosion (Formerly Disintegrate) damage still does NOT crit at all (both physical and shock procs).
- Mages' Wrath Explosion splits its full damage between Enemy mobs. If explosion deals 30k damage on a boss, it will deal 15k on each if there is a mob standing next to the boss instead of full 30k on boss and little bit damage on the mob.

For more details
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/263210/sorcerers-execute-disintegrate-passive-bugs/p1

So... 20 days since you reported those bugs and still no sign of Zenimax responding except to tell those interested to stop bumping the thread... Also no sign of them fixing the problem...

Great... It shows just how much they care about sorcerers, then again it shouldn't surprise considered their casual dismissal of our 1092 posts just in this thread they opened...

PainfulFAFA

Buff crystal blast

Derra

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Buff crystal blast

Can you think of a way how?

I honestly can´t come up with an idea to make a casttime ability vaible.

PainfulFAFA

Derra wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Buff crystal blast

Can you think of a way how?

I honestly can´t come up with an idea to make a casttime ability vaible.

They can start by removing the cast time?
Make it an instant attack (or even a gapcloser). Give it a buff (Major Fracture/Major breach)
The stronger damage morph should be Frags (keep the cast time and 35% proc chance), while the morph for utility/debuffs should be Blast.

Sorcerers have TOO many cast time abilities... 2 pets, dark conversion, frags. I consider mines, and Overload also cast time abilities because both have delays in their animations/effects.

Derra

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Buff crystal blast

Can you think of a way how?

I honestly can´t come up with an idea to make a casttime ability vaible.

They can start by removing the cast time?
Make it an instant attack (or even a gapcloser). Give it a buff (Major Fracture/Major breach)
The stronger damage morph should be Frags (keep the cast time and 35% proc chance), while the morph for utility/debuffs should be Blast.

Sorcerers have TOO many cast time abilities... 2 pets, dark conversion, frags. I consider mines, and Overload also cast time abilities because both have delays in their animations/effects.

I think it would already be in a good spot if it was uninterruptable like WB.

No casttime. God that would be pretty op

PainfulFAFA

Derra wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Buff crystal blast

Can you think of a way how?

I honestly can´t come up with an idea to make a casttime ability vaible.

They can start by removing the cast time?
Make it an instant attack (or even a gapcloser). Give it a buff (Major Fracture/Major breach)
The stronger damage morph should be Frags (keep the cast time and 35% proc chance), while the morph for utility/debuffs should be Blast.

Sorcerers have TOO many cast time abilities... 2 pets, dark conversion, frags. I consider mines, and Overload also cast time abilities because both have delays in their animations/effects.

I think it would already be in a good spot if it was uninterruptable like WB.

No casttime. God that would be pretty op

For Crystal Blast
Remove the cast time (make it insta cast)
Remove the CC (remove the stun)
Lower the cost (should cost no more than 2.5k, on live it costs 3k+.... 3.4k for me)
Lower the damage (crystal frags should be the dps morph)
.
.
.
and in return give it a buff. Major Fracture/Breach (reduce enemy armors)
Both magicka and stam can use this.

flguy147ub17_ESO

TheHsN wrote: »

Sorcerer in this patch is disappointment...

-WE already use as main dps ForcePulse WHICH is Destruction weapon line skill not our own one...And it costs ALOT

-But NB is using swallow soul or surprise attack - Costs almost nothing
-Dk has whip - Costs almost nothing
-Temlar again his own skill line - Costs almost again nothing....

-making good dps is vry hard u need all buffs from warhorn and spell cure buffs with another buffs from resto staff...
-we have only boring overload ....
- Mages Wrath is the worst finisher
- now they took power surge to powerless surge
- Took hardened ward and harness magicka...

Class is sooooooo boring to play now...I cant understand why they destroy their own beauty with their own hand ....

hope they fix things before they break it all.. (before the DB gets live)

Whip cost the same Force Pulse or Crushing Shock, i have no clue where you got that info from that Force Pulse is expensive and Whip is cheap when they cost exactly the same.

cschwingeb14_ESO

Grao wrote: »

Natas013 wrote: »

I just don't understand why they even introduced battle spirit if they're not going to use it to balance PvP. Block casting is an issue in PvP, nerf stam regen everywhere. Streak is op in PvP, increase repeated use cost everywhere. Shield stacking is a major issue in PvP, well shields don't last as long as given most of the time so let's cut the time to that AND make the problem worse by giving sorcs access to a second shield that blocks all damage types. Who cares that this means PvE sorcs will have to add expensive shields to their rotations, further taxing resources so they have to weave in more heavy attacks, and reducing their already laughable dps to ROFL levels. I'm honestly waiting on that unbreakable cc to be added to sorcs tool kit.

Passive: the big joke. Casting any sorc ability has a 5%/10% chance to cause your enemy to ROFL uncontrollably. This cc is unbreakable and doesn't give cc immunity, and can only be stopped by taking damage from non sorcs.

I joke of course but sure feels that way.

Meanwhile PvE sorcerers drown and die...

This is the problem with the PvP vs PvE crowd. They are very myopic. There have been dev posts related to how the blocking-regen change was due to PvE tanks face rolling content while holding down the right mouse button.

The new Ward change is largely vMSA and 25k Ward PvE tank related. It is a big nerf for sorcs. But every time I ignored PvE mobs because of a 25k shield, I thought: "this can't last.... It makes things to easy"

With streak you might have a point, except that back when they did it, it was also partly a reaction to sorcs bragging that they didn't need horses, and content skipping.

Grao

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Natas013 wrote: »

I just don't understand why they even introduced battle spirit if they're not going to use it to balance PvP. Block casting is an issue in PvP, nerf stam regen everywhere. Streak is op in PvP, increase repeated use cost everywhere. Shield stacking is a major issue in PvP, well shields don't last as long as given most of the time so let's cut the time to that AND make the problem worse by giving sorcs access to a second shield that blocks all damage types. Who cares that this means PvE sorcs will have to add expensive shields to their rotations, further taxing resources so they have to weave in more heavy attacks, and reducing their already laughable dps to ROFL levels. I'm honestly waiting on that unbreakable cc to be added to sorcs tool kit.

Passive: the big joke. Casting any sorc ability has a 5%/10% chance to cause your enemy to ROFL uncontrollably. This cc is unbreakable and doesn't give cc immunity, and can only be stopped by taking damage from non sorcs.

I joke of course but sure feels that way.

Meanwhile PvE sorcerers drown and die...

This is the problem with the PvP vs PvE crowd. They are very myopic. There have been dev posts related to how the blocking-regen change was due to PvE tanks face rolling content while holding down the right mouse button.

The new Ward change is largely vMSA and 25k Ward PvE tank related. It is a big nerf for sorcs. But every time I ignored PvE mobs because of a 25k shield, I thought: "this can't last.... It makes things to easy"

With streak you might have a point, except that back when they did it, it was also partly a reaction to sorcs bragging that they didn't need horses, and content skipping.

PvE Sorcerers aren't dying because of the nerfs to ward or Streak, we are dying because our already poor DPS is getting further nerfed (see nerfs to Curse), because our ability to sustain was pretty much obliterated (see changes to Surge), because the devs keep trying to fix an ability that is a simple failure (see Useless Exchange), because we are the only magicka class without a spammable ability of our own, restricting our builds to pretty much one option and one weapon, because we have the weakest utility of all 4 classes while also being the weakest DPS, because pets still die way too easily, have cast time and cost too much to summon while not doing enough damage because somehow they fail to make use of our class passives and champion points... Do I have to go on?

It is not a myopic view, I know sorcerers have their strengths in PvP, but currently in PvE the class is ruined. Yes, the changes to ward do affect us in VMA, but the change that really annihilates us in that content is the change Surge. Having the worse sustain in the game now coupled with the worse DPS makes for very bad VMA experiences.

Tannus15

Surge, wards, low dps, low utility etc are symptoms. The sickness is that 1/3 of sorc class skills are Pets. And the pets suck. They have way too many draw backs.

Pets need to be changed to work the same way as the Dire-wolves on Pack-leader.

Not a toggle.
No cast involved.
They auto re-summon on death.
Swapping to a skill bar without them slotted kills them, swapping back auto re-summons without cast.

Then it works.
Then we can run pets and the stupid things can die in boss aoe.
Then we can use 2 bars of skills.

PainfulFAFA

Tannus15 wrote: »

Surge, wards, low dps, low utility etc are symptoms. The sickness is that 1/3 of sorc class skills are Pets. And the pets suck. They have way too many draw backs.

Pets need to be changed to work the same way as the Dire-wolves on Pack-leader.

Not a toggle.
No cast involved.
They auto re-summon on death.
Swapping to a skill bar without them slotted kills them, swapping back auto re-summons without cast.

Then it works.
Then we can run pets and the stupid things can die in boss aoe.
Then we can use 2 bars of skills.

exactly

Grao

Tannus15 wrote: »

Surge, wards, low dps, low utility etc are symptoms. The sickness is that 1/3 of sorc class skills are Pets. And the pets suck. They have way too many draw backs.

Pets need to be changed to work the same way as the Dire-wolves on Pack-leader.

Not a toggle.
No cast involved.
They auto re-summon on death.
Swapping to a skill bar without them slotted kills them, swapping back auto re-summons without cast.

Then it works.
Then we can run pets and the stupid things can die in boss aoe.
Then we can use 2 bars of skills.

This is probably a little too much. The pets have good actives now so the toggleness is somewhat justified and we do have an extra bar to play with precisely because of having so many toggles.

The pets do have a few serious issues though, for one they don't scale or affected by your champion points, which is a serious problem if not a huge bug. That means their damage and their health doesn't grow further with the CPs you invest.

They also have survivability issues as they are not affected by the majority of the heals. Ward needs to be changed so it heals pet in addition to shielding pets for a number of seconds. The summoned also need larger health pools than they currently have to survive the content of end game PvE.

Bound Armor Morphs need to get an active component or get the Inner Light treatment.

Meanwhile, to fix the general DPS issues of the class, we need a spammable ability... Unfortunately it is not looking likely that Zenimax will hear us on this or on anything else.

Minalan

Tannus15 wrote: »

Surge, wards, low dps, low utility etc are symptoms. The sickness is that 1/3 of sorc class skills are Pets. And the pets suck. They have way too many draw backs.

Pets need to be changed to work the same way as the Dire-wolves on Pack-leader.

Not a toggle.
No cast involved.
They auto re-summon on death.
Swapping to a skill bar without them slotted kills them, swapping back auto re-summons without cast.

Then it works.
Then we can run pets and the stupid things can die in boss aoe.
Then we can use 2 bars of skills.

I don't want to use pets...

Let's not make out builds depend on them, but make them viable at least.

Natas013

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Natas013 wrote: »

I just don't understand why they even introduced battle spirit if they're not going to use it to balance PvP. Block casting is an issue in PvP, nerf stam regen everywhere. Streak is op in PvP, increase repeated use cost everywhere. Shield stacking is a major issue in PvP, well shields don't last as long as given most of the time so let's cut the time to that AND make the problem worse by giving sorcs access to a second shield that blocks all damage types. Who cares that this means PvE sorcs will have to add expensive shields to their rotations, further taxing resources so they have to weave in more heavy attacks, and reducing their already laughable dps to ROFL levels. I'm honestly waiting on that unbreakable cc to be added to sorcs tool kit.

Passive: the big joke. Casting any sorc ability has a 5%/10% chance to cause your enemy to ROFL uncontrollably. This cc is unbreakable and doesn't give cc immunity, and can only be stopped by taking damage from non sorcs.

I joke of course but sure feels that way.

Meanwhile PvE sorcerers drown and die...

This is the problem with the PvP vs PvE crowd. They are very myopic. There have been dev posts related to how the blocking-regen change was due to PvE tanks face rolling content while holding down the right mouse button.

The new Ward change is largely vMSA and 25k Ward PvE tank related. It is a big nerf for sorcs. But every time I ignored PvE mobs because of a 25k shield, I thought: "this can't last.... It makes things to easy"

With streak you might have a point, except that back when they did it, it was also partly a reaction to sorcs bragging that they didn't need horses, and content skipping.

I fail to see how the problem with a 25k ward that last 20 seconds, and still generally needs to be recast under pressure every 6 seconds, will be fixed by making the base time 6 seconds. I also fail to see how giving a second shield bumping that up around 40-50k (depending on the options used) does to make this better. All I see this change really does is make sorcs have to recast shields more often, reducing our dps, while not under pressure. Plenty of times in group PvE content that a sorc isn't under pressure. Not many instances in PvP fights are you not under pressure. Simply put, these changes to sorcs in this update is akin to giving sorcs a shovel.

Tannus15

Minalan wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

Surge, wards, low dps, low utility etc are symptoms. The sickness is that 1/3 of sorc class skills are Pets. And the pets suck. They have way too many draw backs.

Pets need to be changed to work the same way as the Dire-wolves on Pack-leader.

Not a toggle.
No cast involved.
They auto re-summon on death.
Swapping to a skill bar without them slotted kills them, swapping back auto re-summons without cast.

Then it works.
Then we can run pets and the stupid things can die in boss aoe.
Then we can use 2 bars of skills.

I don't want to use pets...

Let's not make out builds depend on them, but make them viable at least.

I agree, I'm not a huge fan of pets either, however, like it or not they are the defining feature of the class. The fact that an entire skill line is basically useless at end game is appalling.

XaXa

30k views, 1.1k posts, 0 Developer participation.

@Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno.

What on earth do we need to do to get some kind of developer response on the two largest threads on the PTS forums!?

Tannus15

Grao wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

Surge, wards, low dps, low utility etc are symptoms. The sickness is that 1/3 of sorc class skills are Pets. And the pets suck. They have way too many draw backs.

Pets need to be changed to work the same way as the Dire-wolves on Pack-leader.

Not a toggle.
No cast involved.
They auto re-summon on death.
Swapping to a skill bar without them slotted kills them, swapping back auto re-summons without cast.

Then it works.
Then we can run pets and the stupid things can die in boss aoe.
Then we can use 2 bars of skills.

This is probably a little too much. The pets have good actives now so the toggleness is somewhat justified and we do have an extra bar to play with precisely because of having so many toggles.

The pets do have a few serious issues though, for one they don't scale or affected by your champion points, which is a serious problem if not a huge bug. That means their damage and their health doesn't grow further with the CPs you invest.

They also have survivability issues as they are not affected by the majority of the heals. Ward needs to be changed so it heals pet in addition to shielding pets for a number of seconds. The summoned also need larger health pools than they currently have to survive the content of end game PvE.

Bound Armor Morphs need to get an active component or get the Inner Light treatment.

Meanwhile, to fix the general DPS issues of the class, we need a spammable ability... Unfortunately it is not looking likely that Zenimax will hear us on this or on anything else.

If the pets "actives" were just skills we could use then they would be "good".
But they aren't.

what we have is like requiring "breath of life" to be on both bars to be usable.Not only that but we can't use it in circumstances where we need it like Large Aoe from a boss because the first thing that dies is our pet. It's the most useless, costly way for us to run things.

If they don't want to make it auto re-summon then it should be instant cast and summoning the pet also instantly triggers their active. We NEED to be able to cast heal or an attack and it actually happen, not suddenly lock us into a cast time summon for a pet that will die before we can cast the active.

Grao

Tannus15 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

Surge, wards, low dps, low utility etc are symptoms. The sickness is that 1/3 of sorc class skills are Pets. And the pets suck. They have way too many draw backs.

Pets need to be changed to work the same way as the Dire-wolves on Pack-leader.

Not a toggle.
No cast involved.
They auto re-summon on death.
Swapping to a skill bar without them slotted kills them, swapping back auto re-summons without cast.

Then it works.
Then we can run pets and the stupid things can die in boss aoe.
Then we can use 2 bars of skills.

This is probably a little too much. The pets have good actives now so the toggleness is somewhat justified and we do have an extra bar to play with precisely because of having so many toggles.

The pets do have a few serious issues though, for one they don't scale or affected by your champion points, which is a serious problem if not a huge bug. That means their damage and their health doesn't grow further with the CPs you invest.

They also have survivability issues as they are not affected by the majority of the heals. Ward needs to be changed so it heals pet in addition to shielding pets for a number of seconds. The summoned also need larger health pools than they currently have to survive the content of end game PvE.

Bound Armor Morphs need to get an active component or get the Inner Light treatment.

Meanwhile, to fix the general DPS issues of the class, we need a spammable ability... Unfortunately it is not looking likely that Zenimax will hear us on this or on anything else.

If the pets "actives" were just skills we could use then they would be "good".
But they aren't.

what we have is like requiring "breath of life" to be on both bars to be usable.Not only that but we can't use it in circumstances where we need it like Large Aoe from a boss because the first thing that dies is our pet. It's the most useless, costly way for us to run things.

If they don't want to make it auto re-summon then it should be instant cast and summoning the pet also instantly triggers their active. We NEED to be able to cast heal or an attack and it actually happen, not suddenly lock us into a cast time summon for a pet that will die before we can cast the active.

As I said, the pets are not without flaws, they do need to be affected by CPs and actually survive confrontations, but you need to keep in mind that besides their active pets are also a DoT of sorts. They are a constant source of damage, thus justifying the use of two slots to maintain them, if the damage is good.

Tannus15

Grao wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

Surge, wards, low dps, low utility etc are symptoms. The sickness is that 1/3 of sorc class skills are Pets. And the pets suck. They have way too many draw backs.

Pets need to be changed to work the same way as the Dire-wolves on Pack-leader.

Not a toggle.
No cast involved.
They auto re-summon on death.
Swapping to a skill bar without them slotted kills them, swapping back auto re-summons without cast.

Then it works.
Then we can run pets and the stupid things can die in boss aoe.
Then we can use 2 bars of skills.

This is probably a little too much. The pets have good actives now so the toggleness is somewhat justified and we do have an extra bar to play with precisely because of having so many toggles.

The pets do have a few serious issues though, for one they don't scale or affected by your champion points, which is a serious problem if not a huge bug. That means their damage and their health doesn't grow further with the CPs you invest.

They also have survivability issues as they are not affected by the majority of the heals. Ward needs to be changed so it heals pet in addition to shielding pets for a number of seconds. The summoned also need larger health pools than they currently have to survive the content of end game PvE.

Bound Armor Morphs need to get an active component or get the Inner Light treatment.

Meanwhile, to fix the general DPS issues of the class, we need a spammable ability... Unfortunately it is not looking likely that Zenimax will hear us on this or on anything else.

If the pets "actives" were just skills we could use then they would be "good".
But they aren't.

what we have is like requiring "breath of life" to be on both bars to be usable.Not only that but we can't use it in circumstances where we need it like Large Aoe from a boss because the first thing that dies is our pet. It's the most useless, costly way for us to run things.

If they don't want to make it auto re-summon then it should be instant cast and summoning the pet also instantly triggers their active. We NEED to be able to cast heal or an attack and it actually happen, not suddenly lock us into a cast time summon for a pet that will die before we can cast the active.

As I said, the pets are not without flaws, they do need to be affected by CPs and actually survive confrontations, but you need to keep in mind that besides their active pets are also a DoT of sorts. They are a constant source of damage, thus justifying the use of two slots to maintain them, if the damage is good.

But the damage is not good if the pet is dead.
Since increasing their survivability for most Vet situations is unrealistic, they need either very good AI to dodge instant kill AOE effects, OR enough health to just not care, we need to be able to resummon them quickly.

Like reapplying a DoT.

Also, since they supply our utility we need to be able to use them at a moments notice, even when dead. Especially when dead, since as noted above, keeping them alive at end game is just not viable.

This means we only NEED them on both bars if we want to DoT to keep ticking when we switch weapons. We can CHOOSE to have them on 1 bar for their utility and sometimes DoT, or on both bars for a never ending DoT plus utility.
It actually makes sense that way. It means choices!

And lastly you are entirely correct in that they need to be affected by our CP if we are going to scale correctly, especially with VR removal.

Grao

Tannus15 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

Surge, wards, low dps, low utility etc are symptoms. The sickness is that 1/3 of sorc class skills are Pets. And the pets suck. They have way too many draw backs.

Pets need to be changed to work the same way as the Dire-wolves on Pack-leader.

Not a toggle.
No cast involved.
They auto re-summon on death.
Swapping to a skill bar without them slotted kills them, swapping back auto re-summons without cast.

Then it works.
Then we can run pets and the stupid things can die in boss aoe.
Then we can use 2 bars of skills.

This is probably a little too much. The pets have good actives now so the toggleness is somewhat justified and we do have an extra bar to play with precisely because of having so many toggles.

The pets do have a few serious issues though, for one they don't scale or affected by your champion points, which is a serious problem if not a huge bug. That means their damage and their health doesn't grow further with the CPs you invest.

They also have survivability issues as they are not affected by the majority of the heals. Ward needs to be changed so it heals pet in addition to shielding pets for a number of seconds. The summoned also need larger health pools than they currently have to survive the content of end game PvE.

Bound Armor Morphs need to get an active component or get the Inner Light treatment.

Meanwhile, to fix the general DPS issues of the class, we need a spammable ability... Unfortunately it is not looking likely that Zenimax will hear us on this or on anything else.

If the pets "actives" were just skills we could use then they would be "good".
But they aren't.

what we have is like requiring "breath of life" to be on both bars to be usable.Not only that but we can't use it in circumstances where we need it like Large Aoe from a boss because the first thing that dies is our pet. It's the most useless, costly way for us to run things.

If they don't want to make it auto re-summon then it should be instant cast and summoning the pet also instantly triggers their active. We NEED to be able to cast heal or an attack and it actually happen, not suddenly lock us into a cast time summon for a pet that will die before we can cast the active.

As I said, the pets are not without flaws, they do need to be affected by CPs and actually survive confrontations, but you need to keep in mind that besides their active pets are also a DoT of sorts. They are a constant source of damage, thus justifying the use of two slots to maintain them, if the damage is good.

But the damage is not good if the pet is dead.
Since increasing their survivability for most Vet situations is unrealistic, they need either very good AI to dodge instant kill AOE effects, OR enough health to just not care, we need to be able to resummon them quickly.

Like reapplying a DoT.

Also, since they supply our utility we need to be able to use them at a moments notice, even when dead. Especially when dead, since as noted above, keeping them alive at end game is just not viable.

This means we only NEED them on both bars if we want to DoT to keep ticking when we switch weapons. We can CHOOSE to have them on 1 bar for their utility and sometimes DoT, or on both bars for a never ending DoT plus utility.
It actually makes sense that way. It means choices!

And lastly you are entirely correct in that they need to be affected by our CP if we are going to scale correctly, especially with VR removal.

They need a considerable health pool and their summoners need to be given better tools to care for the pets. For example, you see your pet is dying from standing in the AoE? Shield it... That shield should both heal the pet and be powerful enough to absorb the damage of any boss AoE.

That or they need to be more easily summoned, but I still think the alternative that has sorcerers actually taking care of their summons makes more sense and for more interesting game play.

As for the CPs, I have to say I was quite baffled that the pets are not affected by them. >.>