Official Feedback Thread for Sorcerers

XaXa

RebornV3x wrote: »

This thread is pure toxic is this what you want ZOS man this thread has really turned the community against one another.

Most of those who were toxic have left. The sorcs that are left and willing to discuss are actually quite civil now compared to earlier

Grao

And it starts.. ESO Live. Lets hope they announce Sorcerer overhaul!

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO

Grao wrote: »

And it starts.. ESO Live. Lets hope they announce Sorcerer overhaul!

Well, let us know how it ends, not really expecting them to do anything, but it would be a really nice surprise if they did.

Grao

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

And it starts.. ESO Live. Lets hope they announce Sorcerer overhaul!

Well, let us know how it ends, not really expecting them to do anything, but it would be a really nice surprise if they did.

LOL They ignored my 1 question and said pretty much nothing useful regarding sorcerers other than that they are still working on the Surge numbers...

Sigh... What a disappointment...

Minalan

Grao wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

And it starts.. ESO Live. Lets hope they announce Sorcerer overhaul!

Well, let us know how it ends, not really expecting them to do anything, but it would be a really nice surprise if they did.

LOL They ignored my 1 question and said pretty much nothing useful regarding sorcerers other than that they are still working on the Surge numbers...

Sigh... What a disappointment...

Did we seriously expect anything else from @Wrobel ?

I still want to see him do VMA on a sorc, until he can finish it without putting a fist through his monitor.

Derra

Grao wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

And it starts.. ESO Live. Lets hope they announce Sorcerer overhaul!

Well, let us know how it ends, not really expecting them to do anything, but it would be a really nice surprise if they did.

LOL They ignored my 1 question and said pretty much nothing useful regarding sorcerers other than that they are still working on the Surge numbers...

Sigh... What a disappointment...

Flat numbers will never work as the whole game is dynamic in terms of dmg done and healing.
They either have to adjust numbers every patch that introduces new gear or the ability will always be OP or useless afterwards.

But they don´t even grasp these basic concepts.

Grao

Minalan wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

And it starts.. ESO Live. Lets hope they announce Sorcerer overhaul!

Well, let us know how it ends, not really expecting them to do anything, but it would be a really nice surprise if they did.

LOL They ignored my 1 question and said pretty much nothing useful regarding sorcerers other than that they are still working on the Surge numbers...

Sigh... What a disappointment...

Did we seriously expect anything else from @Wrobel ?

I still want to see him do VMA on a sorc, until he can finish it without putting a fist through his monitor.

I... I had hopes he'd at least gives us what is his vision for the class... What role in PvE we are supposed to fill... Came the moment to answer that question and instead he turns it into a discussion about how each class is supposed to feel unique. Well, as a sorcerer main I feel uniquely ignored and weak... So I guess he achieves uniqueness for sorcerers?

code65536

I know a sorc tank (@RobbaYaga) who will likely take issue with @Wrobel's characterization that sorc tanks are more viable now. Yes, the changes to surge are probably good for sorc tanks a flat value favors low-damage builds. But the severe nerf to the sorc's ward took away one of the unique and important tools of the sorc tank.

Flaminir

So we're supposed to be crit build sorc tanks according to Wrobel....

That's the moment I think I finally accepted that things aren't going to change

AhPook_Is_Here

code65536 wrote: »

I know a sorc tank (@RobbaYaga) who will likely take issue with @Wrobel's characterization that sorc tanks are more viable now. Yes, the changes to surge are probably good for sorc tanks a flat value favors low-damage builds. But the severe nerf to the sorc's ward took away one of the unique and important tools of the sorc tank.

Just depends on the armor, if you are tanking 5 light it is a nerf if you are tanking 5 heavy its a buff.

code65536

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

Just depends on the armor, if you are tanking 5 light it is a nerf if you are tanking 5 heavy its a buff.

Good luck getting enough crit for those Surge heals in heavy armor!

Grao

Flaminir wrote: »

So we're supposed to be crit build sorc tanks according to Wrobel....

That's the moment I think I finally accepted that things aren't going to change

Because there are so many good sets that provide both tankiness and spell crit, right? Right?

Did you guys noticed @Wrobel dismissive laugh when @ZOS_GinaBruno brought sorcerers concerns up? They all had a good laugh so apparently the class is a nice internal joke. How do you guys feel about that? Being their office joke?

bloodenragedb14_ESO

Grao wrote: »

Flaminir wrote: »

So we're supposed to be crit build sorc tanks according to Wrobel....

That's the moment I think I finally accepted that things aren't going to change

Because there are so many good sets that provide both tankiness and spell crit, right? Right?

Did you guys noticed @Wrobel dismissive laugh when @ZOS_GinaBruno brought sorcerers concerns up? They all had a good laugh so apparently the class is a nice internal joke. How do you guys feel about that? Being their office joke?

Hey, clip that bit of video, post it to youtube, and i want to ducking post it everywhere, to truly show the playerbase just how much their opinions and concerns matter

XaXa

I missed most of the stream but if you have a clip i would LOVE to watch that

Grao

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Flaminir wrote: »

So we're supposed to be crit build sorc tanks according to Wrobel....

That's the moment I think I finally accepted that things aren't going to change

Because there are so many good sets that provide both tankiness and spell crit, right? Right?

Did you guys noticed @Wrobel dismissive laugh when @ZOS_GinaBruno brought sorcerers concerns up? They all had a good laugh so apparently the class is a nice internal joke. How do you guys feel about that? Being their office joke?

Hey, clip that bit of video, post it to youtube, and i want to ducking post it everywhere, to truly show the playerbase just how much their opinions and concerns matter

Around 1hour and 36 minutes @ZOS_GinaBruno asks about what is the direction for magicka sorcerers (question she then spoiled by having @Wrobel talk about all the classes instead). You can hear someone snorting on the background and they follow the questions with several small jokes like 'And with this question I leaving' >.>

And after spending several minutes talking about how they want every class to be super flexible... They went into sorcerer tanking instead of talking about magicka sorcerer...

PainfulFAFA

Wrobel shares his thoughts on sorceres (mag/stam) at about 1:00:00 and onwards
Whats funny is, as hes talking, the other Dev is getting shrekt by 16k poisons and 14k tethers lolol and theyre like "ohh that hits really strong" ... smh lol

code65536

Grao wrote: »

Did you guys noticed Wrobel dismissive laugh when ZOS_GinaBruno brought sorcerers concerns up? They all had a good laugh so apparently the class is a nice internal joke. How do you guys feel about that? Being their office joke?

Dude, stop. You're not helping.

Yes, you're frustrated that they haven't been responding in this thread. But they do read these posts. And they did try to address our concerns during ESO Live.

Were their responses satisfactory? Not even close. So that's why you bring up the things that Wrobel said and point out the flaws in his reasoning. For example, the oddity of expecting high crit on a tank.

But posts like this one are distractions. They're noise that drown out the actual content, and they just don't help.

XaXa

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

XaXa wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno
Can we expect any class skill changes?

Bound Armor is still a toggle and that makes me sad It could really use some kind of active component.

Not in this PTS patch, but the team is still working on some adjustments and fixes for the Live patch.

I know its a vauge answer but im surprised i got a reply at all.

Im willing to bet the changes and such are the raising of the crit surge flat value and the sorc passive bugs.

Eitherway im still holding out for Bound Armaments / Aegis to finally get an active effect. (Regardless of how unlikely that is)

Grao

code65536 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Did you guys noticed Wrobel dismissive laugh when ZOS_GinaBruno brought sorcerers concerns up? They all had a good laugh so apparently the class is a nice internal joke. How do you guys feel about that? Being their office joke?

Dude, stop. You're not helping.

Yes, you're frustrated that they haven't been responding in this thread. But they do read these posts. And they did try to address our concerns during ESO Live.

Were their responses satisfactory? Not even close. So that's why you bring up the things that Wrobel said and point out the flaws in his reasoning. For example, the oddity of expecting high crit on a tank.

But posts like this one are distractions. They're noise that drown out the actual content, and they just don't help.

How did they tried to answer our concerns and questions? They were covering and dodging like crazy! Seriously, the one sorcerer question they allowed through Gina completely twisted by having @Wrobel speak instead about all the classes in general. It was a question about Magicka sorcerers and they end up talking about how they want every class to be unique and flexible and finally about sorcerer tanking with the idea of a heavy crit based tank, something you hardly itemize for since sets for tanks don't include spell crit... for obvious reasons >.<

At the same time they were talking of how flexible they want each class to be they were also ignoring a resounding question, when will magicka sorcerers be allowed to main a weapon that is not a damn destro fire staff...

bloodenragedb14_ESO

Grao wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Did you guys noticed Wrobel dismissive laugh when ZOS_GinaBruno brought sorcerers concerns up? They all had a good laugh so apparently the class is a nice internal joke. How do you guys feel about that? Being their office joke?

Dude, stop. You're not helping.

Yes, you're frustrated that they haven't been responding in this thread. But they do read these posts. And they did try to address our concerns during ESO Live.

Were their responses satisfactory? Not even close. So that's why you bring up the things that Wrobel said and point out the flaws in his reasoning. For example, the oddity of expecting high crit on a tank.

But posts like this one are distractions. They're noise that drown out the actual content, and they just don't help.

How did they tried to answer our concerns and questions? They were covering and dodging like crazy! Seriously, the one sorcerer question they allowed through Gina completely twisted by having @Wrobel speak instead about all the classes in general. It was a question about Magicka sorcerers and they end up talking about how they want every class to be unique and flexible and finally about sorcerer tanking with the idea of a heavy crit based tank, something you hardly itemize for since sets for tanks don't include spell crit... for obvious reasons >.<

At the same time they were talking of how flexible they want each class to be they were also ignoring a resounding question, when will magicka sorcerers be allowed to main a weapon that is not a damn destro fire staff...

I think toning it down a bit might help, but i do feel your anger is justified.

All the irritation, anger, and the myriad of other emotions you feel right now, i feel too.

a dark, but wise man once said 'let the hate flow through you'

dont let this exhaust you, let it further empower you to get answers out of these, clearly, PR disaster clusterducks.

Collect your data, present it in a calm and informative manner whenever possible, and i mean WHENEVER possible. Multiple a day if the case calls for it.

They are counting on us giving up, thats what the laughing was, i am positive, 'lets make them so mad they give up, so we can just do what we want'

XaXa

ive mainly decided to be so polite and persistent mainly because i think it annoys them. I dont want to give up and if i can kill them with professionalism then i will.

Thats a figure of speech by the way. Never know what the mods might think!

dagonbeer

code65536 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Did you guys noticed Wrobel dismissive laugh when ZOS_GinaBruno brought sorcerers concerns up? They all had a good laugh so apparently the class is a nice internal joke. How do you guys feel about that? Being their office joke?

Dude, stop. You're not helping.

Yes, you're frustrated that they haven't been responding in this thread. But they do read these posts. And they did try to address our concerns during ESO Live.

Were their responses satisfactory? Not even close. So that's why you bring up the things that Wrobel said and point out the flaws in his reasoning. For example, the oddity of expecting high crit on a tank.

But posts like this one are distractions. They're noise that drown out the actual content, and they just don't help.

Agree with this. I tend to be pretty snarky about the changes but would never attack the developers themselves. Being a game developer takes more sacrifice and dedication than I'd be able to muster, and ESO has kept to a pretty impressive release schedule (some might say too ambitious, but constant and reliable content updates keeps the player base.)

I haven't seen the video, but perhaps the laugh is more a sign that they haven't figured it out, and that it's been a persistent thorn in their side?

code65536

Grao wrote: »

when will magicka sorcerers be allowed to main a weapon that is not a damn destro fire staff...

Honestly, I don't get why people get worked up so much about a sorc spammable. The lackluster group PvE DPS of sorcs is not due to a lack of a class spammable. If you think that, then I'm sorry to say that you probably don't actually understand why sorcs have relatively lower sustained DPS than other classes. All that a class spammable would do is enable alternate weapons for niche play-how-you-want builds, but it will do absolutely nothing for a sorc's competitive PvE DPS potential.

In any case, the issues that need to be addressed in the long run are the sorc's poor toolkit and limited bar space due to Bound Armor. But neither of these things are things that we can expect them to address at this point. We can and should continue to champion them for future updates, but there is no way we will see them in DB, and as the developers' time is currently focused on getting DB out the door, these are not issues that they will address at this time, and you shouldn't be surprised that they aren't doing anything about it.

The issues that we still have a chance for this update that's coming in just a little over a week on are Surge and Ward, and we should have constructive feedback on these issues--even if the feedback is us vehemently disagreeing with their design decisions.

Grao

code65536 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

when will magicka sorcerers be allowed to main a weapon that is not a damn destro fire staff...

Honestly, I don't get why people get worked up so much about a sorc spammable. The lackluster group PvE DPS of sorcs is not due to a lack of a class spammable. If you think that, then I'm sorry to say that you probably don't actually understand why sorcs have relatively lower sustained DPS than other classes. All that a class spammable would do is enable alternate weapons for niche play-how-you-want builds, but it will do absolutely nothing for a sorc's competitive PvE DPS potential.

In any case, the issues that need to be addressed in the long run are the sorc's poor toolkit and limited bar space due to Bound Armor. But neither of these things are things that we can expect them to address at this point. We can and should continue to champion them for future updates, but there is no way we will see them in DB, and as the developers' time is currently focused on getting DB out the door, these are not issues that they will address at this time, and you shouldn't be surprised that they aren't doing anything about it.

The issues that we still have a chance for this update that's coming in just a little over a week on are Surge and Ward, and we should have constructive feedback on these issues--even if the feedback is us vehemently disagreeing with their design decisions.

A spammable ability is at the core of your damage, it is the button you will press the most during any fight and thus it can be used to regulate our lackluster sustained DPS into a more respectable number.
Besides, the tree most likely to receive this ability would be Dark Magic, every damage activation of dark magic heals the caster by 8% of their max health.
Next, freeing us from needing a destruction staff in our main bar opens the possibility for Magicka sorcerers to main hand dual wield for better spell damage. Also on spell damage, having another sorcerer ability on your main bar activates storm calling passive giving us yet more spell damage, all of it working to increase our poor DPS Performance.
On top of that most sorcerers would still use a Destruction staff on their back bar, but since there'd be no need to use that weapon for light and heavy attack weaving, it could be a lightning staff instead of fire, meaning every AoE from the destruction tree would give increased DPS also thanks to passives on the storm calling tree.
Over even that, having a spammable ability in the sorcerer tree would increase the damage potential of Overload considerably. Currently you lose your weapon and weapon skills going into Overload and thus you have nothing but your execution to weave with the empowered light attacks, that not being the case, sustained DPS with that ultimate active would significantly improve.

Must I keep going?

As for the issues with Ward and Surge... It is a problem I will grant you that, but the numbers for Surge are still being worked upon according to the Devs. As for Ward, the reduction of duration isn't bad in PvP and in PvE, yes, it will increase your resource drain in solo content, but in group content you truly shouldn't need to rely on Ward in the first place, not with CP resistances.
The builds that are heavily affected by the nerfing of Ward are magicka tank builds and pet builds, the first for obvious reasons, the second because pets are already too fragile., being unable to keep them shielded permanently is problematical. To correct the last problem Ward should Heal the pets besides shielding and the pet shield should be considerably more powerful, at least in PvE.

I think all that makes pretty clear why magicka sorcerers need a spammable ability, don't you think so?

Minalan

Recap from @Wrobel sorc comments in the twitch today.

* Hardened ward is meant for PVP focus. Empowered for PVE, with the extra duration (10 seconds). That's Eric's thinking, they aren't going to change it. Plus, they expected the negative feedback from this major nerf, and no. They don't care, they've heard it all in 5,000 posts.

You'll just have to remorph EVERY SINGLE TIME you leave Cyrodiil to do a dungeon or vice -versa. Asinine, since now you pay a tax to switch. The 6K/12K Empowered morph is unusable in PVP at 6K max strength, and the Hardened 9K/18K ward only lasts 6 seconds in PVE. You'll die. Alot.

* Surge heals aren't coming back, because the ultimate overload was too good with all of the heals to full. So we won't get the old surge heals anywhere near back to where they were, but they may look into it.

Sadly, it was our ONLY decent heal, but never mind facts or game play. If we're lucky, they'll make 'dark deal' an instant cast instead of a one second channel that roots you. At least we know what to ask for, and they might listen (probably not). That won't be as good as a resto staff, but it might at least let some sorcs dual wield and destro staff and survive. No. Apparently none of them have tried VMA.

* Apparently, dying to gankblades over and over and over again in 2 seconds flat was hilarious to all of them. Killing one required some NINE PEOPLE to take one down (Gina's comment I believe, "Wow, it takes nine of you to kill this guy!"). They all thought that was perfectly fine, the issue is that the players are so good, not that the people are hitting two or three buttons over and over.

Just to show you how they think. The lights are on, but nobody there is drawing any conclusions. Sorry, I call it how I see it. This isn't meant to be mean or combative, but just I don't agree with any of their decisions lately. I won't be re-subbing for their stupid bag unless they fix this.

STEVIL

code65536 wrote: »

In any case, the issues that need to be addressed in the long run are the sorc's poor toolkit and limited bar space due to Bound Armor..

About this:

SORC WITH OVERLOAD and ONE TOGGLE on all bars has 1 ult empty and 12 slots empty
other class with one untl slotted and skill non-toggle slotted has 9 and 1 ult empty
Advanatge SORC by 3

SORC WITH OVERLOAD and TWO TOGGLES on all bars has 1 ult empty and 9 slots empty
other class with one untl slotted and TWO skills non-toggle slotted has 8 and 1 ult empty
Advanatge SORC by 2

SORC WITH OVERLOAD and THREE TOGGLES on all bars has 1 ult empty and 6 slots empty
other class with one untl slotted and THREE skills non-toggle slotted has 7 and 1 ult empty
Advanatge NON-SORC by 1

So, until you go for THREE toggles... the sorc has more slots than the other classes.

it isn't limited bar space.

Your MATH MAY VARY.

code65536

Grao wrote: »

A spammable ability is at the core of your damage, it is the button you will press the most during any fight and thus it can be used to regulate our lackluster sustained DPS into a more respectable number.

If they add a sorc spammable, you can be guaranteed that it will hit with a strength similar to Force Pulse. They're not going to give a spammable that's substantially stronger than all the other spammables in the game. It simply would not be balanced.

Grao wrote: »

Besides, the tree most likely to receive this ability would be Dark Magic, every damage activation of dark magic heals the caster by 8% of their max health.

Okay, that would be a good solution to the Surge problem. But you'll also lose the many benefits of Force Pulse. The same benefits that are causing some competitive magblades to ditch the Strife for Force Pulse: the 3 hits increasing the proc rate of Nerien'eth and Scathing Mage, the destro staff passives (namely, extra penetration and the huge magicka return if it lands a killing blow), and the fact that it's elemental damage and can thus proc magicka return from Ele Drain (skills in Dark Magic are magic damage, not elemental damage; this would also be bad for Altmers). This could potentially turn into a Funnel vs. Force Pulse thing like what we see with magblades: that in solo play, the healing from Funnel is better, and in group play, Force Pulse just has more damage potential.

Grao wrote: »

Next, freeing us from needing a destruction staff in our main bar opens the possibility for Magicka sorcerers to main hand dual wield for better spell damage.

Why do you think DKs and nightblades--who do have class spammables--still main bar a destro in PvE? This is my biggest point of contention with this give-sorcs-a-spammable campaign. Why do you want to run away from the destro staff so much? The DPS from couple hundred Spell Damage from dual-wield is downright pitiful compared to the DPS from staff weaving. Plus, Wall of Elements is a very, very good DoT that every magicka user must run, but it's also a fairly short duration DoT, which means it's best placed on the front bar, not on the back bar.

Even if you had a non-staff spammable, you will still need a staff on your front bar if you want to do competitive PvE DPS because you lose too much DPS if you don't weave your spammable, and you want Wall on the front or else your rotation will be annoying to execute with too many barswaps.

(Plus bonus points in the you'd-be-stupid-to-ditch-a-staff column if you have Maelstrom destro staves.)

Grao wrote: »

Over even that, having a spammable ability in the sorcerer tree would increase the damage potential of Overload considerably.

Okay, it would improve the utility of Overload somewhat since you now have the option to cast your spammable while in Overload mode. But it will not improve the damage. That is because, while Overload is considered light attacking by some of the game mechanics, Overload is mostly treated like casted abilities. For example, you can't Overload when silenced even though you can light attack with your staff when silenced. This means that you cannot weave Overload with another instant-cast ability. You can try it right now with Mage's Wrath if you don't believe me. (Nor do I think you should be able to weave Overload with an ability--that would be way too imbalanced.)

So what would be the point of having a spammable on your bar in Overload? If you're primarily using the spammable, then you're losing out on the staff weave. All that it does is make it convenient to throw in a spammable attack here and there without popping out and in of Overload. So it improves utility. But does absolutely nothing for your damage.

If you think that the problem with sorcs in PvE is that they have to use Force Pulse, then you don't really understand PvE DPS that well. The key to high PvE DPS, aside from things like raw stats, buffs, etc., is the rotation. You can give someone perfect BiS gear and put them in a group with a perfect War Horn rotation and all the raid buffs you can imagine, but if they have a crap rotation, then they won't get the DPS. And the key idea behind the rotation is maximizing the amount of damage you do per ability cast. My Force Pulse has a tooltip of 8373. My DPS would suck if, at every 1s ability cooldown, all I did was weave Force Pulse (or Whip as a DK, or Funnel as a NB). Blockade of Elements, on the other hand, has a 14400 cumulative tooltip. It has an 8s duration, so if every 8th ability I cast was changed from Force Pulse to Blockade, then I've gained DPS. Every 10th ability, I can throw in a Liquid Lightning, which has a tooltip of 29130. Almost all the DoTs in this game have a higher damage-per-cast ratio than spammables, to make up for the fact that they do their damage over time and they can't be spammed. A wider variety of DoTs to pick from in your toolkit means that you can build a better rotation with more of these high-damage-per-cast DoTs and fewer spammables. This is why sorcs fall behind DKs: because of fewer DoTs to choose from in their toolkit, and because of a toggle reducing the number of abilities you can slot.

cpuScientist

They in destro on back bar.... We need a spammable, read Grao again for why....

Grao

code65536 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

A spammable ability is at the core of your damage, it is the button you will press the most during any fight and thus it can be used to regulate our lackluster sustained DPS into a more respectable number.

If they add a sorc spammable, you can be guaranteed that it will hit with a strength similar to Force Pulse. They're not going to give a spammable that's substantially stronger than all the other spammables in the game. It simply would not be balanced.

Grao wrote: »

Besides, the tree most likely to receive this ability would be Dark Magic, every damage activation of dark magic heals the caster by 8% of their max health.

Okay, that would be a good solution to the Surge problem. But you'll also lose the many benefits of Force Pulse. The same benefits that are causing some competitive magblades to ditch the Strife for Force Pulse: the 3 hits increasing the proc rate of Nerien'eth and Scathing Mage, the destro staff passives (namely, extra penetration and the huge magicka return if it lands a killing blow), and the fact that it's elemental damage and can thus proc magicka return from Ele Drain (skills in Dark Magic are magic damage, not elemental damage; this would also be bad for Altmers). This could potentially turn into a Funnel vs. Force Pulse thing like what we see with magblades: that in solo play, the healing from Funnel is better, and in group play, Force Pulse just has more damage potential.

Grao wrote: »

Next, freeing us from needing a destruction staff in our main bar opens the possibility for Magicka sorcerers to main hand dual wield for better spell damage.

Why do you think DKs and nightblades--who do have class spammables--still main bar a destro in PvE? This is my biggest point of contention with this give-sorcs-a-spammable campaign. Why do you want to run away from the destro staff so much? The DPS from couple hundred Spell Damage from dual-wield is downright pitiful compared to the DPS from staff weaving. Plus, Wall of Elements is a very, very good DoT that every magicka user must run, but it's also a fairly short duration DoT, which means it's best placed on the front bar, not on the back bar.

Even if you had a non-staff spammable, you will still need a staff on your front bar if you want to do competitive PvE DPS because you lose too much DPS if you don't weave your spammable, and you want Wall on the front or else your rotation will be annoying to execute with too many barswaps.

(Plus bonus points in the you'd-be-stupid-to-ditch-a-staff column if you have Maelstrom destro staves.)

Grao wrote: »

Over even that, having a spammable ability in the sorcerer tree would increase the damage potential of Overload considerably.

Okay, it would improve the utility of Overload somewhat since you now have the option to cast your spammable while in Overload mode. But it will not improve the damage. That is because, while Overload is considered light attacking by some of the game mechanics, Overload is mostly treated like casted abilities. For example, you can't Overload when silenced even though you can light attack with your staff when silenced. This means that you cannot weave Overload with another instant-cast ability. You can try it right now with Mage's Wrath if you don't believe me. (Nor do I think you should be able to weave Overload with an ability--that would be way too imbalanced.)

So what would be the point of having a spammable on your bar in Overload? If you're primarily using the spammable, then you're losing out on the staff weave. All that it does is make it convenient to throw in a spammable attack here and there without popping out and in of Overload. So it improves utility. But does absolutely nothing for your damage.

If you think that the problem with sorcs in PvE is that they have to use Force Pulse, then you don't really understand PvE DPS that well. The key to high PvE DPS, aside from things like raw stats, buffs, etc., is the rotation. You can give someone perfect BiS gear and put them in a group with a perfect War Horn rotation and all the raid buffs you can imagine, but if they have a crap rotation, then they won't get the DPS. And the key idea behind the rotation is maximizing the amount of damage you do per ability cast. My Force Pulse has a tooltip of 8373. My DPS would suck if, at every 1s ability cooldown, all I did was weave Force Pulse (or Whip as a DK, or Funnel as a NB). Blockade of Elements, on the other hand, has a 14400 cumulative tooltip. It has an 8s duration, so if every 8th ability I cast was changed from Force Pulse to Blockade, then I've gained DPS. Every 10th ability, I can throw in a Liquid Lightning, which has a tooltip of 29130. Almost all the DoTs in this game have a higher damage-per-cast ratio than spammables, to make up for the fact that they do their damage over time and they can't be spammed. A wider variety of DoTs to pick from in your toolkit means that you can build a better rotation with more of these high-damage-per-cast DoTs and fewer spammables. This is why sorcs fall behind DKs: because of fewer DoTs to choose from in their toolkit, and because of a toggle reducing the number of abilities you can slot.

Alright, I didn't say at any point that there wouldn't be situations in which using Force Pulse or Crushing Shock wouldn't be better, but I maintain having a skill that is spammable would promote build diversity and could potentially help fix our low sustained DPS issues. The damage of the ability could be set as high or as low as it was needed after some play testing, there are spammables from other classes that do hit quite a bit harder than Force Pulse does.

You speak of the dilemma nightblades are in, in which they have two abilities to choose from to spam, as a bad thing, I think it is awesome. I means Nightblades will have how to adapt their build depending on what they are doing... Sorcerers simply don't have that freedom. You also speak of the loss of several Destruction Staff passives, but you are forgetting how much the sorcerer passives would influence our DPS with every ability cast, not only with our spammable.

As for Rotation, well you already run one dot in one bar and another on the other bar, lightning splash and Wall of Elements, it is easy enough to swap wall of elements to the back bar and the fact slotting a lightning staff would greatly increase that ability's power would compensate for any extra discomfort for... Bar swapping?

As to Overload, you are just wrong, you can animation cancel the light attack, even if you can't charge an attack while performing a spell because overload doesn't have medium attacks. Having a spammable to weave with overload would increase its sustained damage output considerably while helping prevent the bug in which the ability gets stuck in Heavy attack mode.

I am not saying giving sorcerers a spammable ability would be a fix for every issue the class has, but it would be a good start and it would be the most complicated step, as it would involve completely overhauling a skill.

Derra

Minalan wrote: »

* Apparently, dying to gankblades over and over and over again in 2 seconds flat was hilarious to all of them. Killing one required some NINE PEOPLE to take one down (Gina's comment I believe, "Wow, it takes nine of you to kill this guy!"). They all thought that was perfectly fine, the issue is that the players are so good, not that the people are hitting two or three buttons over and over.

The problem this poses in my opinion is:

Someone that inept at playing a game that is rather simple in terms of it´s combat mechanics should not be in charge of designing it. It shows the person is lacking the understanding of the systems they´re supposed to balance/tweak.