Sorcerer's Execute + Disintegrate Passive + Suppression Field Bugs

YoloWizard

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

So apparently there are fishy things going on with the Sorcerer class which might explain why Sorc's execute is the weakest of all magicka executes. Sorcs rely heavily on Mages' Fury as an execute and then there is the Disintegrate which is barely noticeable on my damage reports and always wondered why. So my dear friend @Selawa and I took our time checking out stuff and this is what we found:

1- Suppression Field (Negate morph) Damage from this ability does NOT crit at all. See screenshot below (Taken from PTS)

2- Mages' Wrath (Mages' Fury morph) explosion damage will split between target and any nearby enemies. Lets say you are executing a boss with 30k explosion crits, if another mob stands beside the boss the damage from that explosion will split between them and deal 15k on each instead of full 30k on boss and some extra little damage on the mob. Same thing if there was 2 mobs beside the boss, you will do 10k on each. I'd assume Endless Fury is suffering from the same bug as it also has a splash damage. See screenshot below

Despite the fact that Sorc's execute is weaker than other magicka executes in terms of damage, the execute threshold is 19% which is a JOKE when I see Radiant Oppression starts from 50%. And on top of all that it is bugged and doesn't function correctly if there are multiple enemies around the target!. As you may all know, going to Veteran Maw of Lorkhaj thinking you are going to Overload everything to death is probably a bad idea because you gonna have a hard time sustaining good DPS. I'm not saying that Sorcs can not compete with other classes hell no it is still good and competitive, but needs few fixes and adjustments to be on par with other classes. Starting from making execute threshold at 25% just like Impale from NB.
As much as I hate saying this but sometimes I feel I'm forced to play another class (other than my main) just because as a competitive player I need to deal as much high DPS as possible which can be avoided by these fixes and adjustments.


3- Disintegrate Passive does NOT crit at all, yes when this passive procs on a low health target it will never crit. This has been a thing for quite a while now but didn't report it because most of the fights in this game were short that you barely can see any disintegration procs on your damage reports (which will lead to another point) See screenshot below

Yet another disadvantage to Sorc's execute, my friend here used all shock abilities possible for 5 whole minutes (on the invincible NPC so basically 0 hp all the time) with a total of 103 procs and 0 crits.
It doesn't end here, the tooltip of Disintegrate states "Gives all Shock spell a 6% chance to instantly disintegrate low Health targets, dealing X Shock Damage". So in worst case low health target means lower than 25% but no this does not apply to Sorc, proc threshold is at 15% based on our tests. This is inconsistency right there.

https://youtu.be/qqxvBrHF7EM

Overall you get a low chance to proc the passive when using Shock damage that starts from 15% health which does not crit at all. No thank you I'd rather remove that passive and get some crit damage buff or whatever. Seriously though, get this fixed ASAP. Make it proc from 25% and fix the crit and maybe this can help Sorc to evenly compete!

..

BONUS BUG Trapping web (and its morphs) synergy can NOT crit at all, the ability itself crits though. See screenshot below

Black Widows is the name of the synergy

DRXHarbinger

Bah those screen shots. How you pc boys play this with all that crap on screen is beyond me, no immersion at all.

OT. Mages wrath has always been shite compared to endless fury.

Disintegrate has always been at very low health iirc. More of a finish em off at low health rather than an execute on an execute.

PriorityBalle

ZoS please look at this @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

magnusthorek

Yesssss.... Try to do something good for Sorcerers instead of screwing us patch after patch

PriorityBalle

This is gamebreaking, please care)

xblackroxe

Also pls dont fix. Dont want to get outdpsed by a Sorc :P

Vezuls

ZoS please fix your game/class mechanics

ZOS_DaryaK

We removed the 'bump' posts. Please remember that 'bumping' is against our forum rules.

YoloWizard

xblackroxe wrote: »

Also pls dont fix. Dont want to get outdpsed by a Sorc :P

Even with these bugs you will , just wait for me

@ZOS_DaryaK Can at least sweet people from ZOS look into these bugs? I would like to know if you guys actually know about it or not

daemonios

I'm seeing sorcs slowly but steadily lagging behind other classes in the DPS department... Again. When all we have is an ultimate that we need to hoard and save for boss fights, precious few AoE or DoTs, the healing aspect of Negate was not what I expected to see on the PTS. In addition, overload is still buggy and will get stuck or turn into heavy attacks far too often. And pets are still next to useless.

Mind you, I can certainly pull my weight on live, and I'm waiting for EU character copy on the PTS to test my main character, but I'm seeing the game drift towards the situation in 1.5 where sorcs were undesirable in end game groups.

FriedEggSandwich

Just to clarify; this on live or pts? I've been using mages wrath as my dps filler in pvp since shortly after launch and I have to admit I like it a lot. I knew the execute threshold was below 20% and that was my only gripe with it. I love the pre-proc mechanic. I don't look at execute damage in pvp but I get good figures from mages wrath executes in pve (20k ish). I've honestly never noticed the splash damage issue. Clearly if this is an issue I would very much like it fixed as this skill is a staple of most of my rotations. It's not functioning properly as an execute if it's sharing execute damage with anyone else. Nice find op

GeertKarel

Fix sorcerer please it shouldn't be a overload class make it great and compared to different classes.

Paulington

There are a lot of bugs that need addressing with this class, just like Templars and Toppling Charge.

However, not just with Sorcerers, I believe consistency is required and having some executes start at 50% whilst others start at 20% et cetera is just wildly inconsistent. Just let the "execute" phase be 20% or whatever.

Dromede

That's terrible... I also saw Desintegration do 1 damage on some bosses - not sure if resistances are at play, or if it's FTC bug, but that passive is not working too well.

Also, when it comes to percentages at which certain skills become more useful, i feel like that kind of information should be available in open, not tested by players. It's really cool that the community is eager to take the numbers apart to figure out formulas, but these numbers are detrimental to builds. A little more light on these matters will never hurt.

Dyride

*looks to all the other stam sorcs* See guys, we didn't even want to use this passive anyways kappa.

Caeric

@YoloWizard thank you all (both?) for taking the time to look into this. I've always felt that the damage from these was off, but as I mainly solo PvE it didn't matter as much to me. Although I've put points into Disintegrate, I never really felt like it did much. Now I know that it didn't.

The few times I did use mage's fury or it's morphs was for crystal frag procs - and that was just while leveling the storm calling line. That was the best use I found for it.

Reorx_Holybeard

YoloWizard wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

So apparently there are fishy things going on with the Sorcerer class which might explain why Sorc's execute is the weakest of all magicka executes. Sorcs rely heavily on Mages' Fury as an execute and then there is the Disintegrate which is barely noticeable on my damage reports and always wondered why. So my dear friend @Selawa and I took our time checking out stuff and this is what we found:

1- Mages' Wrath (Mages' Fury morph) explosion damage will split between target and any nearby enemies. Lets say you are executing a boss with 30k explosion crits, if another mob stands beside the boss the damage from that explosion will split between them and deal 15k on each instead of full 30k on boss and some extra little damage on the mob. Same thing if there was 2 mobs beside the boss, you will do 10k on each. I'd assume Endless Fury is suffering from the same bug as it also has a splash damage. See screenshot below

Despite the fact that Sorc's execute is weaker than other magicka executes in terms of damage, the execute threshold is 19% which is a JOKE when I see Radiant Oppression starts from 50%. And on top of all that it is bugged and doesn't function correctly if there are multiple enemies around the target!. As you may all know, going to Veteran Maw of Lorkhaj thinking you are going to Overload everything to death is probably a bad idea because you gonna have a hard time sustaining good DPS. I'm not saying that Sorcs can not compete with other classes hell no it is still good and competitive, but needs few fixes and adjustments to be on par with other classes. Starting from making execute threshold at 25% just like Impale from NB.
As much as I hate saying this but sometimes I feel I'm forced to play another class (other than my main) just because as a competitive player I need to deal as much high DPS as possible which can be avoided by these fixes and adjustments.

...

Great stuff! I wasn't aware of those bugs. Note that there is actually not as much difference between Mage's Fury and Radiant Destruction/Oppression as there may appear:

1. The listed tooltip for RD is for the entire 2.8 second channel.
2. The execute for RD does start at 50% but it scales linearly starting at 0% bonus damage and ending at 330% damage at 0% mob health.

Regarding the last point, for most Templars it is a *loss* of DPS to use RD before around 25% health.

As an example comparison I looked at my Templar and Sorcerer who have roughly similar stats and tested RD on a mob at 19% health.

• Sorcerer Mage's Fury = 17.1 k dmg (3.75k + 13.34k) on mobs less than 20% health
• Radiant Oppression = 18.7k dmg on a 19% health mob (tooltip for RD is 15.4k).

So comparable at 19%...of course RD just gets better past 19% while MF just stays the same but MF has AoE damage which is really nice in some situations plus the whole Magicka return thing. What would be your version of an improved MF? A higher execute than 20%, more damage, scaling damage? From past dev discussions on DK executes I would guess they would prefer keeping them unique to each class, barring the obvious bug fixes which need to be done as you pointed out.

Valrien

Reorx_Holybeard wrote: »

YoloWizard wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

So apparently there are fishy things going on with the Sorcerer class which might explain why Sorc's execute is the weakest of all magicka executes. Sorcs rely heavily on Mages' Fury as an execute and then there is the Disintegrate which is barely noticeable on my damage reports and always wondered why. So my dear friend @Selawa and I took our time checking out stuff and this is what we found:

1- Mages' Wrath (Mages' Fury morph) explosion damage will split between target and any nearby enemies. Lets say you are executing a boss with 30k explosion crits, if another mob stands beside the boss the damage from that explosion will split between them and deal 15k on each instead of full 30k on boss and some extra little damage on the mob. Same thing if there was 2 mobs beside the boss, you will do 10k on each. I'd assume Endless Fury is suffering from the same bug as it also has a splash damage. See screenshot below

Despite the fact that Sorc's execute is weaker than other magicka executes in terms of damage, the execute threshold is 19% which is a JOKE when I see Radiant Oppression starts from 50%. And on top of all that it is bugged and doesn't function correctly if there are multiple enemies around the target!. As you may all know, going to Veteran Maw of Lorkhaj thinking you are going to Overload everything to death is probably a bad idea because you gonna have a hard time sustaining good DPS. I'm not saying that Sorcs can not compete with other classes hell no it is still good and competitive, but needs few fixes and adjustments to be on par with other classes. Starting from making execute threshold at 25% just like Impale from NB.
As much as I hate saying this but sometimes I feel I'm forced to play another class (other than my main) just because as a competitive player I need to deal as much high DPS as possible which can be avoided by these fixes and adjustments.

...

Great stuff! I wasn't aware of those bugs. Note that there is actually not as much difference between Mage's Fury and Radiant Destruction/Oppression as there may appear:

1. The listed tooltip for RD is for the entire 2.8 second channel.
2. The execute for RD does start at 50% but it scales linearly starting at 0% bonus damage and ending at 330% damage at 0% mob health.

Regarding the last point, for most Templars it is a *loss* of DPS to use RD before around 25% health.

As an example comparison I looked at my Templar and Sorcerer who have roughly similar stats and tested RD on a mob at 19% health.

• Sorcerer Mage's Fury = 17.1 k dmg (3.75k + 13.34k) on mobs less than 20% health
• Radiant Oppression = 18.7k dmg on a 19% health mob (tooltip for RD is 15.4k).

So comparable at 19%...of course RD just gets better past 19% while MF just stays the same but MF has AoE damage which is really nice in some situations plus the whole Magicka return thing. What would be your version of an improved MF? A higher execute than 20%, more damage, scaling damage? From past dev discussions on DK executes I would guess they would prefer keeping them unique to each class, barring the obvious bug fixes which need to be done as you pointed out.

Actually, @Asayre calculated that a Templar's execute range starts at 40% while keeping up DoTs, and at around 25% you just use straight radiant.

Inarre

Oh god not more wining about radiant oppression. Have we not been over this?

The rest of your points, fine, but go read the other discussions about templar executes

Birdovic

Oh wow, I noticed something is off, here is the confirmation.
Thanks for the great effort you both put in there.

I hope this gets looked at...

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Valrien

Inarre wrote: »

Oh god not more wining about radiant oppression. Have we not been over this?

The rest of your points, fine, but go read the other discussions about templar executes

He mentioned it only once, and only as a comparison showing how crappy the Sorc execute is. I'd hardly call that whinging about Radiant. Little too trigger-happy to defend your execute I think .

Reorx_Holybeard

Valrien wrote: »

Actually, @Asayre calculated that a Templar's execute range starts at 40% while keeping up DoTs, and at around 25% you just use straight radiant.

Ahh really? Good to know, thanks!

Fallen_Ray

Even though I wasn't aware of this bug I never spend any skill points on that passive because I had an odd feeling it wasn't going to be useful. And this post confirms it. I also agree on the Mages Wrath execute, it procs when the target's HP is too low. It really should be like the impale skill the nightblades have 25% hp remaining. I agree with the OP in everyway.

Now will Zenimax address these issues? Or will we get skill buffs/nerfs on the next patch? Perhaps an ostrich mount on the crown store? Yeah that will solve all the issues the game has.

Zenimax while you're at it, might as well add the flying dog from A Never Ending Story as a mount.

Valrien

Fallen_Ray wrote: »

Even though I wasn't aware of this bug I never spend any skill points on that passive because I had an odd feeling it wasn't going to be useful. And this post confirms it. I also agree on the Mages Wrath execute, it procs when the target's HP is too low. It really should be like the impale skill the nightblades have 25% hp remaining. I agree with the OP in everyway.

Now will Zenimax address these issues? Or will we get skill buffs/nerfs on the next patch? Perhaps an ostrich mount on the crown store? Yeah that will solve all the issues the game has.

Zenimax while you're at it, might as well add the flying dog from A Never Ending Story as a mount.

Are you aware that the people who make Crown Store items probably can't fix bugs? They're artists, not programmers.

Birdovic

Perhaps an ostrich mount on the crown store? Yeah that will solve all the issues the game has.

Seriously, I would die from laughing, riding a damn ostrich must be funny as hell, I WANT

Fallen_Ray

Valrien wrote: »

Fallen_Ray wrote: »

Even though I wasn't aware of this bug I never spend any skill points on that passive because I had an odd feeling it wasn't going to be useful. And this post confirms it. I also agree on the Mages Wrath execute, it procs when the target's HP is too low. It really should be like the impale skill the nightblades have 25% hp remaining. I agree with the OP in everyway.

Now will Zenimax address these issues? Or will we get skill buffs/nerfs on the next patch? Perhaps an ostrich mount on the crown store? Yeah that will solve all the issues the game has.

Zenimax while you're at it, might as well add the flying dog from A Never Ending Story as a mount.

Are you aware that the people who make Crown Store items probably can't fix bugs? They're artists, not programmers.

Yes I am aware. However, crown store always has something out. The game has had issues like this one going on forever. Now since this doesn't affect the game economy like last Friday's exploit which allowed everyone to have Legendary gear easily, it gets to be on the table gathering dust. I just can't believe how some stupid things get out first while game breaking bugs stay.

Let's say they already have the fix and the reason why it isn't out is due to approval signatures (how companies work). Well since it's a bug that allows people to get bad it can wait. Now if it's a bug that allows us to become powerful in a few hours it gets all necessary approval signatures, rapidly gets fixed even if they have to pull the plug on prime time hours and even if that fix has way worse consequences on the game.

Then again maybe it's just me making a scenery to get everyone's attention.

Fallen_Ray

andypappb16_ESO wrote: »

Perhaps an ostrich mount on the crown store? Yeah that will solve all the issues the game has.

Seriously, I would die from laughing, riding a damn ostrich must be funny as hell, I WANT

True lol! it would make me feel like im riding a chocobo though, a bald headed chocobo with black & white feathers

Fallen_Ray

wrong click duplicate post if any mods read this please delete if possible

Fallen_Ray

wrong click duplicate post if any mods read this please delete if possible

Smajestic

Thx Yolo,

I write a same complaint about sorcerer magicka in french, if I resume, I think the main 3 problems are:

1) the DPS and the execute: my proposition is more to begin à 30 %
2) The toggle problem: sorcerer have 4 slots with mage light and the 8 % more magicka (NB have a simple passiv to have the 8 % magicka...).
3) The AOE DPS problem, sorcerer are the weakest class for AOE DPS: maybe one proposition is to change one morph of velocity curse
4) The cost of most of the spell, sorcerer have the biggest problem with mana, because most of spell cost simply to much in comparison with other class.

Cf: my subject in french: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/fr/discussion/261885/dark-brotherhood-fil-de-discussion-officiel-sur-les-sorciers/p1

Dromede

Smajestic wrote: »

Thx Yolo,

I write a same complaint about sorcerer magicka in french, if I resume, I think the main 3 problems are:

1) the DPS and the execute: my proposition is more to begin à 30 %
2) The toggle problem: sorcerer have 4 slots with mage light and the 8 % more magicka (NB have a simple passiv to have the 8 % magicka...).
3) The AOE DPS problem, sorcerer are the weakest class for AOE DPS: maybe one proposition is to change one morph of velocity curse
4) The cost of most of the spell, sorcerer have the biggest problem with mana, because most of spell cost simply to much in comparison with other class.

Cf: my subject in french: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/fr/discussion/261885/dark-brotherhood-fil-de-discussion-officiel-sur-les-sorciers/p1

Our AOE DPs is not bad at all - I personally really like Liquid Lightning for 4-man, but we need someone to hit synergy for that skill to do decent damage, otherwise it's meh. If you are fighting by yourself, it's borderline useless, that's true(