Official Feedback Thread for Sorcerers

klink012

Grao wrote: »

klink012 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

klink012 wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

NativeJoe wrote: »

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IF YOU DON"T UNDERSTAND THE ISSUE SORCS ARE HAVING WITH SHIELD REDUCTION AND OTHER NERFS PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A POST STATING YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND. Thanks ~Broken'Stick
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Why is the duration 6 seconds?
Because how long does fear last? right so u shield up. the NB gets a smirk, buffs up, fears you, u run around like and idiot lose ur shields, and he gets his combo in unmitigated. A well timed Dizzy swing and ur on the ground, ult time as soon as the shields expire. IT is basically just a way to give EVERY class their own shot at us without having to go through any mitigation. and lets not forget the dirty little secret of the transmutation set. If you are healed by a person and are wearing 7/7 impen... Sorcs CANNOT heal off you because you are immune to critical strikes. Also with everyone having shields...same issue. So sorcs cannot recover hp.

Why do I personally have an issue with the changes?
It isn't that they Changed just my shields and I'm QQing in the corner. let me try to paint a picture everyone can see.

In pvp... Every class has it's own damage mitigation techniques. NBs can stealth, shuffle, dodge. Dks Traditionally are the tankiest of builds and can mitigate damage greatly; they also get flappy wings to reflect direct damage projectiles such as crystal frags, overload, crushing shock, flame clench, and that sorta thing. Templars can out mitigate, out heal, and have insane resource management to get by, Sorcs have Streak, rune prison, soft CC, and Shields as our Damage mitigation techniques.

A broad description that isn't by any means absolute. or the entire story...but u get the idea...every class has it's own WAY of dealing with heavy damage.

So I'm playing a pet build...doing Awsome btw : https://www.twitch.tv/trixytricks/v/64395447 : And then Zos comes in and goes hey... shield duration reduced by 70%, Your pet curse now is not considered a dot and thus does not benefit from CP in thermaturge (these things are 2 major nerfs to my pets survival, my resource management, my ability to not get randomly ganked, etc) ..... okay awsome..... but they weren't finished. ALSO all shields now protect against all damage, every class can now shield stack, AND we're upping the damage of proxy. (5 pets x 25% more damage + me roughly means im going to take 20k damage from it by myself...if not more) So now all my opponents just got tougher, my dps just got lower, and they put in basically a kill switch to my pet build.

understand a little bit of my frustration here?

By no means is that all they did, nor all they will do... they gotta do something about stamina sorc now...which probably means magicka sorcs of all kinds are about to lose something.

And thats just talking about this specific build. Sorc shield tanks, CC sustain sorc builds, and others are on the chopping block too. It's a wide range of builds that are going to suffer by changing a "class defining" skill.

Why do I have problems with it in pve?
basically our BIS gear (to be remotely competitive) doesn't give HP, and our defenses are paper thin... like unshielded we get one shot thin. So traditionally we used shields so we didn't have to lose THAT much dps by dropping lots of points into hp or jumping heavy armor or the like. Now in pve they are basically making us take off our shields..because there is no way to run molag kena (skills cost 33% more) and do a skill rotation and be spamming shields every 6 seconds. Which means we have to adapt... Maybe slotting a pet in the place of the shield would give enough hp room for templar healer to keep us up...idk but either way it's a massive change to sorcs, and it's a tough bullet to swallow to have to depend on the competency of another for survival.

Why do I feel like a wet noodle next to other classes in the dps role?
have you been in a parse with someone on the higher end of the dps spectrum. aka actually wearing bis gear? a NB or DK can easily pull 50k dps. Templar HEALERS doing their job can do 20k+ dps. Sorcs doing all their rotations, perfectly buffed, and in cookie cutter builds struggle to break 25k.

And remember the other classes shield stacking too...so if your doing the same ur cutting your dps for a no win scenerio. Dk's are now the best shield stackers with flappy wings, thorn shield (reflects 33% damage back), and the fact they can self heal and pretty much already dominated the damage mitigation scene prior to this anyway.

Our shields where donated to the other classes. my honest opinion is to ditch em, and try to go for something else. otherwise it is kinda like the vanilla days of wow...paladin vs paladin.

What else do I hate about DB changes as far as sorcs are concerned?
Currently we lack Complete originality in the area of Stamina sorcs (which use very few class skills and basically just use being a "sorc" as a utility)
And With magicka sorcs being the bottom of the barrel dps wise across the board and the fact our class "unique-ness" has been lost due to the fact everyone is now inheriting our damage mitigation techniques while retaining their own...
Get ganked by a shielded NB from stealth...because you forgot to spam your shield Every 6 seconds while walking around.
Sorcs are no longer the best shielders... DK's are. With flappy wings, thorn shield, and heavy damage mitigation...they're the new kings.
I hate that I'm having to rethink and recraft all my gear now. No longer can I depend on shields to get me through...but im lost as to what to do.
Currently I'm thinking with our shields being reduced to 6 seconds and it just not being feasible to refresh them constantly on a pet build or CC based sustain build for pvp we need to invest in tactics that Don't use shields... for that we basically need to take all points out of magicka and invest in health instead... utilizing the new buffs in heavy armor, and the +8% max hp for having a pet summoned we stack that with entrophy + 8% and we'll see a build that can actually take a hit from enemy players. The problem with this idea is where is our damage coming from, and more importantly how are we sustaining such a build? There is a pvp set that combined with 7/7 impren makes builds uncritable , and therefor we can't rely on critical surge for anything at all. As for our pet... he's 15k hp in DB and shieldless he's pretty much a one shot. But maybe there is a way to mitigate damage enough to let mutagens or something do the work for us.

For pve... shields are pointless, we;re already the lowest dps...refreshing a shield every 6 seconds is absolutely pointless. Infact it is a liability. So we're going to have to rely on healers, Slot a pet instead of a shield for the extra 8% hp (since our best in slot gear doesn't give us hp) and try to do our basic OL set up (molag kena and shield casting every 6 seconds doesn't work, some come DB you have to lose one or the other)

Now here's the thing... these 2 builds are not transferable from one area to the other... therefor I think those of us who do pvp mostly will have to Tank in the pve setting. and those of us pveing mostly will either have to hide in the Zerg and hope to not get hit in the cross fire, or go cookie cutter sorc.(cookie cutter sorc is using burst damage, 1 resto staff, 1 destro staff with trade mark abilities like crushing shock, mines, streak, and frags to destroy opponents)

Niche builds are basically being annihilated by this DB patch...and proxy counting pets as targets and scaling much higher much faster means pet builds are pretty much done in pvp. Also with our primary curse damage being deemed not a dot...our damage has been nerfed there as well since we can't invest in thermaturge to get that higher amount of damage. So yeah... think pet builds are done for now.

CC sustain builds may still be viable but we're going to need to highly consider not running shields and instead running hp instead because you can't take an even larger dps hit on a low dps build.

Anyway I think since Stamina sorcs are going to be getting some stuff, Magick sorcs need some attention to their passives and abilities as well.
We have lost our Sorc-ness, and need a new identity. Now personally I kinda like the GW2 idea with the mesmer class... Lots of pets, executes, and CC/bleed/confusion/condition effects to take down opponents. For non pet builds I like the idea of having more AOE static (this is my house) type of damage builds to combat the whole invisible/untargetable/shuffle/shielded builds that are going to be new meta. AS for passives... Anything that gives us more life and more life steal at this point.. we're totally screwed on that end without shields.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @Wrobel
This is where the class is left. Perfectly explains it. Now do something about it.

NativeJoe wrote: »

So just throwing this out there... We're supposed to spam shields constantly... how is this going to work with the poisen system?


...just throwing a little logic out here guys...but while this too doesn't effect people that instantly kill their opponents like gankers, or people that stack attacks like cookie cutter sorcs... but for pet builds, sustain builds, and anything else niche... it's going to be border line unfeasible. And this is just an example... there are stronger poisons out there.

100% agree with the above posts. I've played on and off since beta (70/30 split PVP to PVE). Time to make a Stamina NB and join over half the of the PVP population. That's if I continue to play ESO. The sheer lack of direction, multiple COMPLETE overhauls, and no character progression (Champion Points is an utter failure in my book).

Leave Sorc Ward's at 20 seconds.
Leave Harness Magicka the way it is.
DO NOT change Boneshield to absorb magicka.
Give the Mages Guild skill line a grappling hook like you did the Fighters Guild. (assaulting keeps and other structures will be soooo much fun!)

***Install a major and minor shielding system. Make Sorc ward a Major shield along with HEALING WARD (shields that can absorb both magicka and physical dmg should be Major) the other shields should be minor. ***

Revamp multiple Sorcerer skills and passives. Too many to list without the skills in front of me, but from reading through this thread you'll get the idea.

Character advancement - Make DLC with quest lines to further your class skill lines. Could do this in many ways. Add to the existing skill lines. Create more class skill trees / lines. Have a quest line that FORCES you to choose between 2 new class skill trees, you cannot have both! Do something to make uniqueness amongst the same classes. MAYBE even add a 3rd Morph to skills??

Spend major resources on improving every aspect of the overland PVP. IC will be fun for a little while come DB, but vicious death bombs will get very annoying. Your players LOVE the open world of Cyrodiil.

Sincerely,

Kastor Spiritsong - Beloved Sorcerer of few and Destroyer of many

You are going a little over board there. I doubt they will give each skill a third morph as that would mean not only considerable scripting changes but also quite a bit of redesigning of the game's UI. Besides, it is not truly necessary, two morphs per skill is definitely enough as long as those morphs are attractive and interesting.

As for improving the PvP environment, I do agree with you, unfortunately that currently seems like a hardware issue more than a scripting problem. The server housing PvP is not powerful enough to handle the rendering of the scenario + all the AoE particles and spell particles when the server is full. The amount of graphic information and the number crunching is just too much. ZoS has been trying different fixes for that, but clearly it isn't an easy to solve problem and upgrading the server, which probably would be the best alternative, is simply too expensive.

Now... About the shields. True, a shield buff system could implemented to prevent or regulate shield stacking, but it would have to be far more complex than you described. First there are two different degrees of shielding, shields provided by Skills and shields provided by Ultimates. Ultimate shields have to be more powerful.

On top of that there are three different kinds of shields, energy shields that absorb all damage, physical shields which block physical damage and magical shields that prevent magical damage. You'd need different buffs for each one of those to maintain diversity between the different shields. Now, it would be possible to make so only one of this 6 could be active at the same time and that would prevent shield stacking, but I am not sure how happy PvPers would be about such change.

My comments were feedback for the Dev's and ZoS, not you. Stop drinking their kool-aid. DLC is for content, progression, overhaul old areas, adding features, etc. This is what they are paid to do, why we give them money. Adding a UI image and possibly spell effects? That's going overboard? Seriously? Again, things aren't as difficult as ZoS and you make them out to be.

And of course Ultimate shields should be unchanged and stack with the major and minor shields. I kind of figured that would just be a given. People CRY and complain about SORC SHIELD STACKING. Its the bad Sorcs who use 3 shields anyways... So again, put Hardened Ward and Healing Ward as MAJOR shields because they absorb both damage types. Leave the others as Minor and leave the Ultimates alone. This change alone would solve half of the whining on PVP about Sorc shield stacking.

I am sorry you don't want to hear other people's opinions on what you think, but this is a discussion forum, discussion being my point. At this stage, 15 days before the release of the new DLC the best we can hope is for them change one or two useless skill and adjust some numbers, there is absolutely no chance of them overhauling the entire current system and create a third morph for every ability currently available. We are trying to give reasonable feedback to get results and save this class, the keyword being reasonable.

As for shielding, Zenimax already demonstrated that when they turn something a skill give into one of those non stacking buffs that affects all abilities, ultimates included, they will be consistent on that. If they ever follow your idea for shielding, Major shields will be for ultimates and minor shields for normal skills and item sets.

The character advancement was for future DLC and I should have said that from the beginning. (I honestly didn't think I needed to explain that). Of course that wouldn't happen in 15 days. And yes, my thoughts / ideas / opinions are reasonable. Especially the Shields. Nice talk.

GRYM.LOCKE

Suggestion:

@ZOS_GinaBruno @Wrobel

I prefer Magicka version of Liquid Lighting But perhaps we can change the other Morph to Stamina based skill

Take away the Increased Radius and make it a Physical Skill with Damage over time with a unstable ground effect

for 10 seconds it will every 2 seconds knock down npcs and interrupt casting?

could be quite good

genjutsu_kami

ArvenAldmeri wrote: »

gamerguy757 wrote: »

OMG I got it! Change CRYSTAL BLAST MORPH TO A STAMINA MORPH. Same as Crystal Frags, but the damage is based off stamina now.

You normal? Care to get one shot in pvp?

NO he's right! give us stamina crystal frags morph! DK have alternative instant dps morph so do Templars sorcs don't!!! so just give it to us and we will shut up !

genjutsu_kami

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE ZOS

just give us a crystal frag equivalent morph!!! a stamina based one that scales of either weapon damage or max stamina. please i am begging!! all other changes with stam sorc are amazing and great but the cheery on top of the cake to finally saying stam sorcs are part of the top food chain for pvp and pve and to just have the ability to be versatile and have "options" crystal frags stam morph would complete this !!

honestly we stam sorcs we dont complain that NB are ridiculously OP one shot damage stealth experts with more passive buffs then any other class in the game or TEMPLARS can heal for days and are tanky! and do great damage or that DKs can be tanky! and mitigate so much damage. were not so bothered we just want our own thing! cause right now all we are is an eye sore of blue lightning streaking across the plain.

just please, please i beg you give us a stam morph of crystal frags

andryuhav

Neither magicka, nor stamina spammable dps skill + no unique shields = goodbye sorcs

Jar_Ek

@Grao Whilst I appreciate the effort involved in writing out a class revamp (I've done it a few times myself), I think it is overlooking a few things.

The removal of Dark Deal (which definitely needs modification) takes the only stamina recovery mechanism from the class (barring passive regeneration) and I'm not sure where such a thing would come from.

There is no physical scaling ultimate (the barrier atronach could be that maybe).

There is no effective way for a stamina sorcerer to keep a Pet alive as Hardened Ward is a magicka ability (costly and weak for stamina).

I also think that Zos would not make Pets immune, maybe changing rebate such that any ward you cast affects your pets (100%; 150%) would be more acceptable (and would make Bone shield ward Pets).

That said it could be a way forward.

bloodenragedb14_ESO

Jar_Ek wrote: »

@Grao Whilst I appreciate the effort involved in writing out a class revamp (I've done it a few times myself), I think it is overlooking a few things.

The removal of Dark Deal (which definitely needs modification) takes the only stamina recovery mechanism from the class (barring passive regeneration) and I'm not sure where such a thing would come from.

There is no physical scaling ultimate (the barrier atronach could be that maybe).

There is no effective way for a stamina sorcerer to keep a Pet alive as Hardened Ward is a magicka ability (costly and weak for stamina).

I also think that Zos would not make Pets immune, maybe changing rebate such that any ward you cast affects your pets (100%; 150%) would be more acceptable (and would make Bone shield ward Pets).

That said it could be a way forward.

i think the best way to give us a spammable skill is to tack one on to the bound armor, like a arrow for magsorce, an a sword slash for stamsorc, i mean they have already done something similar with summons, why not the armor?

edit: to be honest, i use the restore stamina morph of dark exchange, even though im a mag sorc, give me some resource for blocking, and gives me a heal, for a mere pittance of magicka

Joy_Division

Grao wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Alright, this took a little while to type down, but here it goes. Sorcerers as I think they should / could be.

Dark Magic

Negate Magic: [As in Live]

• Suppression Field: [As in the PTS] Create a globe of magic suppression, dispelling enemy placed effects instantly.
  Enemy players will be silenced rather than stunned.
  Heals you and your allies standing within the area of effect by X.
• Absorption Field: [As in the PTS] Create a globe of magic suppression, dispelling enemy placed effects instantly.
  Enemy players will be silenced rather than stunned.
  Deals X Magic Damage to enemies standing within the area of effect.

Dark Exchange: Drains an enemy's strength causing X Magic Damage and Healing the caster by Y% of the Damage Caused. (Ranged, instant cast, 3000 – 3500 Magicka cost)

• Dark Slash: [Replacing Dark Deal] Drains an enemy's strength causing X Magic Damage and Healing the caster by Y% of the Damage Caused.
  Causes Z additional Magic Damage (Melee, instant cast, 3000 – 3500 Magicka cost)
• Dark Conversion: Drains an enemy's strength causing X Magic Damage and Healing the caster by Y% of the Damage Caused.
  Additionally regains Z% of the Damage caused as Magicka (Increased Range, instant cast, 3000 – 3500 Magicka cost)

Argument: This skill can be balanced to increase Sorcerer Magicka DPS just enough to be in the same level as the other Magicka Builds and Classes. It would replace Force Pulse in our rotation and its numbers could played with to fix the class's sustain issues while also creating diversity by stimulating the creation of a Melee DPS Magicka Sorcerer. At the same time it preserves some of the original essence of Dark Exchange.

Encase:[As in Live]

• Shattering Prison: [As in Live]
• Restraining Prison: [As in Live]

Rune Prison: [As in Live]

• Rune Cage: [As in Live]
• Defensive Rune: [As in Live]

Crystal Shard: [As in Live]

• Crystal Blade: [Replacing Crystal Blast] Conjure a dark crystal blade and toss it at an enemy, dealing X Physical Damage and stunning them for 2 seconds.
  Casting any other Stamina ability has a 35% chance of causing your next Crystal Blade to be instant, cause the target to bleed for Y seconds, and cost 50% less Stamina.
• Crystal Fragments: [As in Live]

Daedric Curse: [Swap with Daedric Mines – As in Live]

• Daedric Prey: [As in Live]
• Velocious Curse: Curses an enemy with a destructive rune dealing X Magic Damage every second and Y Magic Damage to all other nearby enemies after 3.5 seconds.
  Has shorter duration and is converted into a true DoT.

Argument: This ability should be swapped with Daedric Mines for a few reasons, the first being both skills are daedric in nature, but Daedric Curse doesn't summon anything and is not affected in anyway by the passives in the Daedric Summoning Tree. Meanwhile curses are considered Dark Magic and Daedric Mines actually does summon something, not to mention certain passives in Summoning Tree could be tinkered to affect that skill positively.

Unholy Knowledge: [As in Live]

Blood Magic: [As in Live ]

Persistence: [As in Live]

Exploitation: [As in Live]

Daedric Summoning

Argument: Allow all Magicka Scaling Pets to gain extra damage from Spell Power and Stamina Pets to gain extra damage from Weapon Power as well. That or simply increase their damage slightly.

Summon Storm Atronach: [As in Live]

• Greater Storm Atronach: Summon a storm atronach at the target location. The atronach's arrival deals X Shock Damage and stuns nearby enemies for 3 seconds. The atronach cannot move but attacks the nearest enemy.
  An ally can activate Lightning Barrier, granting a energy shield to all allies in range and the atronach absorbing Y damage for 8 seconds. Atronach has increased duration, health and damage.
  Upon Synergy activation, grants all allies in range a energy shield (similar to barrier).
• Summon Empowering Atronach: Summon a storm atronach at the target location. The atronach's arrival deals X Shock Damage and stuns nearby enemies for 3 seconds. The atronach cannot move but attacks the nearest enemy.
  An ally can activate Charged Lightning, giving both the ally, the Atronach's caster and the atronach Major Berserk, increasing their damage by 25% for 8 seconds.
  Caster of the Atronach is also granted Major Berserk upon the activation of the Atronach's Synergy. Additionally, the Atronach has a powerful area effect attack.

Argument: One of the things Sorcerers currently lack is useful utility for a raid or dungeon group. Granting Minor Prophecy is simply not enough and I believe Zenimax recognizes such as true as they are buffing Negate. This changes would grant the Atronach more power and interesting utility, the first morph would sacrifice damage to shield the raid and the second morph would empower not only the ally who activated the synergy, but also the sorcerer, helping the sorcerer DPS.

Unstable Familiar: [As in the PTS]*

• Summon Unstable Clannfear: Command the powers of Oblivion to send a clannfear to fight at your side. The clannfear's attacks deal X Physical Damage plus an additional 15%.
  Once summoned you can activate the clannfear's special ability, tail swiping nearby enemies and taunting the primary target for Y seconds.
  The clannfear remains until killed or unsummoned. (Stamina Based)
• Summon Volatile Familiar: [As in PTS]*

Bound Armor: Protect yourself with the power of Oblivion, creating a suit of Daedric mail that grants Minor Resolve and Minor Ward, increasing your Armor and Spell Resistance by X.

• Bound Armaments: Protect yourself with the power of Oblivion, creating a suit of Daedric mail that grants Minor Resolve and Minor Ward, increasing your Armor and Spell Resistance by X.
  The armor also increases your Max Stamina by 5%.
  Once summoned you can activate the armament's special ability, granting Minor Berserk, increasing all damage done by 8% for 5 seconds.
• Bound Aegis: Protect yourself with the power of Oblivion, creating a suit of Daedric mail that grants Minor Resolve and Minor Ward, increasing your Armor and Spell Resistance by X.
  The armor also increases your Max Health by 5%.
  Once summoned you can activate the armor's special ability, healing you for 35% of your Maximum Health

Argument: Again, in an effort to diversify builds this skills would support both Stamina and Tanking sorcerers greatly. The self heal removed from Clannfear coupled with the 5% Health increase would make this a useful toggle for Tanks while Minor Berserk would make Bound Armaments tempting not just for Stamina Sorcerers but also for Magicka Sorcerers. The 5% Stamina increase would be very useful for Stam DPS, but would also be tempting for tanks needing additional resources for blocking, etc.

Summon Winged Twilight: [As in PTS]*

• Summon Twilight Tormentor: [As in PTS]*
• Summon Twilight Matriarch: [As in PTS]*

Daedric Mines: [As in Live]

• Daedric Tomb: [As in Live]
• Daedric Minefield: [As in Live]

Conjured Ward: Conjures globes of Daedric energy for protection granting you a damage shield that absorbs X damage for 6 seconds and healing your pets for Y.

• Hardened Ward: Conjures globes of Daedric energy for protection granting you a damage shield that absorbs X damage for 6 seconds and healing your pets for Y.
  While the ward is active, your summoned creatures are immune to damage.
  Your damage shield absorbs 30% more damage.
• Empowered Ward: Conjures globes of Daedric energy for protection granting you a damage shield that absorbs X damage for 6 seconds and healing your pets for Y.
  While the ward is active, your summoned creatures are immune to damage.
  This skill also grants Minor Intellect to you and nearby allies, increasing your Magicka Recovery by 10% for 20 seconds and has reduced cost.

Argument: With the changes proposed above and the considerable nerf to all shields in the game this skill needs a few changes to remain viable, not to mention pets need better protection, specially as Sorcerers will no longer be able to maintain their Wards up 100% of the time. The idea here is to use your ward when your pet is going low on health or when you know it and your self are about to get hit with a massive amount of damage. The choice for the sorcerer would then be between having a larger shield or having their shield cost less and provide some minor utility for their allies.

Rebate: When one of your summoned creatures or mines is killed or triggered, you are restored X Magicka.

Power Stone: [As in Live]

Daedric Protection: [As in Live]

Expert Summoner: Grants you 4/8% more maximum magicka whenever you have a Daedric Summoning pet active.

Argument: Not only would this increase sorcerer DPS by increasing the Magicka pool, it would also increase the pet's DPS and thus make them more attractive. This would also help Tank builds that utilize the Clannfear as part of their build.

Storm Calling

Overload: Charge your fists with the power of the storm. Light attacks become lightning bolts, dealing X Shock Damage and 5% additional damage.
Attacks deplete Ultimate until you run out or the ability is toggled off.

• Power Overload: Charge your fists with the power of the storm. Light attacks become lightning bolts, dealing X Shock Damage and 10% additional damage.
  Attacks deplete Ultimate until you run out or the ability is toggled off.
• Energy Overload: Charge your fists with the power of the storm. Light attacks become lightning bolts, dealing X Shock Damage and 5% additional damage.
  Attacks deplete Ultimate until you run out or the ability is toggled off and restore X Magicka and / or Stamina.

Argument: First of all, this ultimate is, in my opinion, the best sorcerer ultimate, not only because its potential burst damage but also because it unlocks a third bar. For a class with quite a few toggles, that is quite a useful feature.
That is not to say it doesn't need a few small changes. Nerfs to its damage have made prolonged use of this ultimate less advantageous, so it could use a slight increase in its power. More importantly though, this is a ultimate plagued by bugs, the most annoying one being getting 'stuck' in heavy attack mode. As its heavy attack isn't powerful enough to be used, I propose simply disabling it as it is not truly a feature for the ultimate, but a problem. Power overload should be about making the ultimate more powerful, not about range and energy overload should return the resource that is actually useful to the sorcerer using the ability or simply return both resources.

Mage's Fury: [As in Live]

• Mage's Wrath: [As in Live]*
• Endless Fury: Call down lightning to strike an enemy for X Shock Damage.
  If target enemy's health falls below 20% within 4 seconds, an explosion deals an additional Y Shock Damage to the target and Z Shock Damage to other enemies nearby.
  Applies a lighting charge that increases the damage of the next cast of Endless Fury by 10% stacking up to 3 times.

Argument: I think no one will argue that Endless Fury feels lackluster when compared to Mage's Wrath. The use of the skill doesn't feel endless at all as its special trait only activates when you kill your enemy and at least in PvE that usually mean the fight is over and you don't need the very small amount of Magicka it returns. This change would encourage spamming this ability and would be an interesting boost for extra damage against enemies that won't die to just one or two explosions. I also believe Mage's Wrath AoE 'Explosion' could use buffs.

Lightning Form: [As in Live]

• Hurricane: [Replacing Thundering Presence] Manifest yourself as lightning to gain Major Resolve and Major Ward, increasing Armor and Spell Resistance by X for 20 seconds.
  While active, nearby enemies will take Y Physical Damage each second. The size and damage of the periodic effect increases the longer it is active, going up to 225% more damage and up to 9 meters in size.
  Grants the Minor Expedition buff at all times while it is active.
• Boundless Storm: [As in Live]*

Argument: The new Stamina morph for this ability seems great, but it does make the Magicka morph feeling very lackluster. Its cost is higher, its damage is weaker and the duration of its speed buff is considerably shorter, even if the buff is more powerful. Yes, the duration is longer which justify the higher cost, but the damage of the Magicka morph for this ability could use some small buff and its range could see a small increase.

Lightning Splash: [As in Live]

• Liquid Lightning: [As in Live]*
• Lightning Flood: [As in Live]

Argument: This is a good skill, but Liquid Lightning can be tricky to target. I would gladly see that morph lose its AoE aspect and become a more traditional, single target, powerful DoT. It is not a necessary change though.

Surge: [As in the PTS]*

• Power Surge: [As in the PTS]*
• Critical Surge: [As in the PTS]*

Argument: I heavily dislike some of the changes this skill suffered this last patch, but I believe Zenimax is still working the numbers. Besides, I believe other changes proposed above would take care of the sustain issues the changes to Surge's internal cooldown and heals would cause.

Bolt Escape: [As in Live]*

• Streak: [As in Live]*
• Ball of lightning: [As in Live]*

Argument: I will admit this is not a skill a use a lot as my enjoyment in PvP tends to fizzle out after fighting the considerable lag of Cyrodill for about an hour. I do believe the stacking cost increase intended to punish repetitive uses of the skill should be balanced out by a damage increase for each repetitive use. The idea is to keep sorcerers from spamming the ability to run away when they are in trouble, but if the sorcerer is using this ability aggressively, that should be rewarded.

Capacitor: [As in Live]

Energized: [As in the PTS]*

Argument: This is a good passive and the change to it adding Physical Damage is a step on the right direction. I'd love to see that damage buff extended to Magic Damage as well or to all Elemental Damage instead of just Shock Damage. Again, with the changes proposed above this may not be needed.

Implosion: [As in the PTS]

Expert Mage: [As in Live]

@Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno
Please take a look at this. Right here would make the Sorc viable and fun to play. We would have group buffs that would make us useful, and have damage and a really good reason to alot pets.

If anything atleast for now make the change with bound armor mines and pet magick passives...

I am glad someone took the time to read all of that >.> Typing all of it and formating it too quite a bit of time

I agree with most of that except for pet damage immunity. That's... Too much. Increase their shields, but immortal? No.

I'd also set the endless fury to hit at a higher execute percentage (40%? I mean radiant destruction triggers at HALF health). And leave it there.

I love the dark conversion ideas, so long as it's spammable!

Yes, the idea is for Dark Exchange and morphs to replace Force Pulse in Magicka sorcerer DPS. It would be the skill to balance to increase our sustained DPS wothout causing massive issues in PvP.

As for the pets immunity, yes, you may be right, specially because of the combo of Clannfear taunt + the immunity to damage. All I want is for the shield to be powerful enough that pets would survive the bosses abilities if they were shielded (The clannfear can die when used for tanking the bosses massive hits though. It would be the sorcerer tank way of mitigating their damage, by having their pet take it and die instead.

And as to our execution, I probably wouldn't set our execute over 25% or so as it might become a problem in PvP. I think the templars execution needs nerfs instead as it is far stronger than what we have and what nightblades have.

Nah radiant is perfect where it is. Its a channeled skill and just fine as is. Ours needs a buff up to 40-50%.

An execution should be when an enemy is at their limit, close to dying, not when they are still at half their health, channeled or not, that Templar ability is way too powerful, the DPS it puts out is ridiculous and one of the reasons magic templars can do over 50k DPS in fights.

Plz post templar DPS parse over 50K under what is deemed standard conditions (sustained, single target)

Minalan

Testing Feedback:

A number of changes were made to our class when shields, undaunted, and fighters guild changes were made that affect our playstyle. It left our class seriously broken, and it needs to be fixed.


1. Sorcs need a spammable attack ability other than force pulse or crushing shock. Seriously, this is asinine design. To get competitive SPELL DAMAGE on a MAGICKA SORC, we have to duel wield SWORDS. Then when you do, you don't have a basic ranged attack, we have to borrow one that everyone gets. We used to at least be able to spam trapping webs.

2. Dark heal, why isn't this ability instant/spammable? Why would anyone bother to use it when it's not? Fix this. If we don't get long shields and no burst heal on crits, it's the least you could do.

3. Overload - fix the bugs that cause this ability to stick or misfire constantly. Or when you cast it without hitting block, the AOE lightning goes off. It happens every other time I fire this ultimate! Boss fight deaths and PVP losses when it's unnecessary. Dawn breaker used to be our ultimate of choice, now we have this to come back to and it's terrible.

4. Mages wrath: fix one morph to do more base damage, while the other one explodes for more. Our execute is behind everyone else's (radiant destruction anyone?)

ADarklore

Jar_Ek wrote: »

There is no effective way for a stamina sorcerer to keep a Pet alive as Hardened Ward is a magicka ability (costly and weak for stamina).

The Clannfear heal ability also heals the pet, while it's not something you can spam because a Stam Sorc doesn't have a high pool of Magicka, it does work to keep the pet alive.

Got a chance to test these changes on PTS today, my main focus was Hurricane and Critical Surge, as I wanted to see how it would impact my main Stamina Sorc. I found myself loving Hurricane, the animation is just awesome. Normally with Boundless Storm I would only use it during major fights, but Hurricane I found myself using in every battle just because it was so much fun.

Critical Surge, I didn't have any problems in Public Dungeons with solo healing using Steel Tornado and Hurricane. Granted, I don't do PvP or vMA, so when it comes to these changes and regular solo questing, these changes won't impact how I play at all, other than Hurricane will now make it a bit more fun.

Grao

Jar_Ek wrote: »

@Grao Whilst I appreciate the effort involved in writing out a class revamp (I've done it a few times myself), I think it is overlooking a few things.

The removal of Dark Deal (which definitely needs modification) takes the only stamina recovery mechanism from the class (barring passive regeneration) and I'm not sure where such a thing would come from.

There is no physical scaling ultimate (the barrier atronach could be that maybe).

There is no effective way for a stamina sorcerer to keep a Pet alive as Hardened Ward is a magicka ability (costly and weak for stamina).

I also think that Zos would not make Pets immune, maybe changing rebate such that any ward you cast affects your pets (100%; 150%) would be more acceptable (and would make Bone shield ward Pets).

That said it could be a way forward.

On Dark Exchange: I can see how not having a Stamina based direct heal could be a problem, but I don't think in its current state Dark Deal does the job. In PvE if you have a second to stand and heal your self, the fight is probably over and in PvP. Well, standing still usually means you die, even if it is just a 1 second cast (More like 1.5 seconds), it is still a huge risk.

Maybe Bound Aegis (in my suggestion it passively grants health and has a healing active ability) could scale from stamina as well? Thus you'd have your direct heal and have extra health bonus.

On Ultimates: Did ZOS Reverted Ults so they scale only from magicka or stamina? Or do you mean neither the ultimates does Physical Damage? If the last is the case maybe one of the Atronachs, likely the barrier morph, could indeed be it.

On Ward and pets immunity to damage: Yes, I can see that being a problem, though I have to admit the only pet I really thought a stamina build would use is the Clannfear and that I designed for tanking, the Twilight is very Magicka oriented and the volatile familiar as well with its bursts of daedric energy. I do agree that giving ward the ability to keep pets alive no matter what for 6 seconds would be too much, but it at least would fix the problem of Ward not scaling from Stamina, thus allowing you to keep the pets alive no matter what. I too am interested in keeping the damn things alive, I just don't see how it will ever happen now that Ward's duration was shot down and pets are not being given more health and resistances.

Grao

Minalan wrote: »

Testing Feedback:

A number of changes were made to our class when shields, undaunted, and fighters guild changes were made that affect our playstyle. It left our class seriously broken, and it needs to be fixed.


1. Sorcs need a spammable attack ability other than force pulse or crushing shock. Seriously, this is asinine design. To get competitive SPELL DAMAGE on a MAGICKA SORC, we have to duel wield SWORDS. Then when you do, you don't have a basic ranged attack, we have to borrow one that everyone gets. We used to at least be able to spam trapping webs.

2. Dark heal, why isn't this ability instant/spammable? Why would anyone bother to use it when it's not? Fix this. If we don't get long shields and no burst heal on crits, it's the least you could do.

3. Overload - fix the bugs that cause this ability to stick or misfire constantly. Or when you cast it without hitting block, the AOE lightning goes off. It happens every other time I fire this ultimate! Boss fight deaths and PVP losses when it's unnecessary. Dawn breaker used to be our ultimate of choice, now we have this to come back to and it's terrible.

4. Mages wrath: fix one morph to do more base damage, while the other one explodes for more. Our execute is behind everyone else's (radiant destruction anyone?)

You know what is sad? At one point sorcerer execution was rumored to be the best in the game. -.-

I agree both morphs of Mage's Wrath seem a little lacking when compared to what other executions in the game can currently do. The AoE is not strong at all and the Magicka return from the other is, well... Not great.

Grao

Minalan wrote: »

Testing Feedback:

A number of changes were made to our class when shields, undaunted, and fighters guild changes were made that affect our playstyle. It left our class seriously broken, and it needs to be fixed.


1. Sorcs need a spammable attack ability other than force pulse or crushing shock. Seriously, this is asinine design. To get competitive SPELL DAMAGE on a MAGICKA SORC, we have to duel wield SWORDS. Then when you do, you don't have a basic ranged attack, we have to borrow one that everyone gets. We used to at least be able to spam trapping webs.

2. Dark heal, why isn't this ability instant/spammable? Why would anyone bother to use it when it's not? Fix this. If we don't get long shields and no burst heal on crits, it's the least you could do.

3. Overload - fix the bugs that cause this ability to stick or misfire constantly. Or when you cast it without hitting block, the AOE lightning goes off. It happens every other time I fire this ultimate! Boss fight deaths and PVP losses when it's unnecessary. Dawn breaker used to be our ultimate of choice, now we have this to come back to and it's terrible.

4. Mages wrath: fix one morph to do more base damage, while the other one explodes for more. Our execute is behind everyone else's (radiant destruction anyone?)

Ding... That is what we need to to fix Sorcerer Magicka sustained DPS. Free us from stupid Force Pulse ZOS.... Please! I know you guys can't buff that ability otherwise other classes might pick it up and get even stronger DPS, so give sorcerers their own version of a nice, spammable attack! You guys can use that one ability, nerf and buff its numbers until Sorcerer DPS Is not at the very DEEP bottom of the DPS Pyramid...

Natas013

klink012 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

klink012 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

klink012 wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

NativeJoe wrote: »

*******************************************************************************************
IF YOU DON"T UNDERSTAND THE ISSUE SORCS ARE HAVING WITH SHIELD REDUCTION AND OTHER NERFS PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A POST STATING YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND. Thanks ~Broken'Stick
*******************************************************************************************


Why is the duration 6 seconds?
Because how long does fear last? right so u shield up. the NB gets a smirk, buffs up, fears you, u run around like and idiot lose ur shields, and he gets his combo in unmitigated. A well timed Dizzy swing and ur on the ground, ult time as soon as the shields expire. IT is basically just a way to give EVERY class their own shot at us without having to go through any mitigation. and lets not forget the dirty little secret of the transmutation set. If you are healed by a person and are wearing 7/7 impen... Sorcs CANNOT heal off you because you are immune to critical strikes. Also with everyone having shields...same issue. So sorcs cannot recover hp.

Why do I personally have an issue with the changes?
It isn't that they Changed just my shields and I'm QQing in the corner. let me try to paint a picture everyone can see.

In pvp... Every class has it's own damage mitigation techniques. NBs can stealth, shuffle, dodge. Dks Traditionally are the tankiest of builds and can mitigate damage greatly; they also get flappy wings to reflect direct damage projectiles such as crystal frags, overload, crushing shock, flame clench, and that sorta thing. Templars can out mitigate, out heal, and have insane resource management to get by, Sorcs have Streak, rune prison, soft CC, and Shields as our Damage mitigation techniques.

A broad description that isn't by any means absolute. or the entire story...but u get the idea...every class has it's own WAY of dealing with heavy damage.

So I'm playing a pet build...doing Awsome btw : https://www.twitch.tv/trixytricks/v/64395447 : And then Zos comes in and goes hey... shield duration reduced by 70%, Your pet curse now is not considered a dot and thus does not benefit from CP in thermaturge (these things are 2 major nerfs to my pets survival, my resource management, my ability to not get randomly ganked, etc) ..... okay awsome..... but they weren't finished. ALSO all shields now protect against all damage, every class can now shield stack, AND we're upping the damage of proxy. (5 pets x 25% more damage + me roughly means im going to take 20k damage from it by myself...if not more) So now all my opponents just got tougher, my dps just got lower, and they put in basically a kill switch to my pet build.

understand a little bit of my frustration here?

By no means is that all they did, nor all they will do... they gotta do something about stamina sorc now...which probably means magicka sorcs of all kinds are about to lose something.

And thats just talking about this specific build. Sorc shield tanks, CC sustain sorc builds, and others are on the chopping block too. It's a wide range of builds that are going to suffer by changing a "class defining" skill.

Why do I have problems with it in pve?
basically our BIS gear (to be remotely competitive) doesn't give HP, and our defenses are paper thin... like unshielded we get one shot thin. So traditionally we used shields so we didn't have to lose THAT much dps by dropping lots of points into hp or jumping heavy armor or the like. Now in pve they are basically making us take off our shields..because there is no way to run molag kena (skills cost 33% more) and do a skill rotation and be spamming shields every 6 seconds. Which means we have to adapt... Maybe slotting a pet in the place of the shield would give enough hp room for templar healer to keep us up...idk but either way it's a massive change to sorcs, and it's a tough bullet to swallow to have to depend on the competency of another for survival.

Why do I feel like a wet noodle next to other classes in the dps role?
have you been in a parse with someone on the higher end of the dps spectrum. aka actually wearing bis gear? a NB or DK can easily pull 50k dps. Templar HEALERS doing their job can do 20k+ dps. Sorcs doing all their rotations, perfectly buffed, and in cookie cutter builds struggle to break 25k.

And remember the other classes shield stacking too...so if your doing the same ur cutting your dps for a no win scenerio. Dk's are now the best shield stackers with flappy wings, thorn shield (reflects 33% damage back), and the fact they can self heal and pretty much already dominated the damage mitigation scene prior to this anyway.

Our shields where donated to the other classes. my honest opinion is to ditch em, and try to go for something else. otherwise it is kinda like the vanilla days of wow...paladin vs paladin.

What else do I hate about DB changes as far as sorcs are concerned?
Currently we lack Complete originality in the area of Stamina sorcs (which use very few class skills and basically just use being a "sorc" as a utility)
And With magicka sorcs being the bottom of the barrel dps wise across the board and the fact our class "unique-ness" has been lost due to the fact everyone is now inheriting our damage mitigation techniques while retaining their own...
Get ganked by a shielded NB from stealth...because you forgot to spam your shield Every 6 seconds while walking around.
Sorcs are no longer the best shielders... DK's are. With flappy wings, thorn shield, and heavy damage mitigation...they're the new kings.
I hate that I'm having to rethink and recraft all my gear now. No longer can I depend on shields to get me through...but im lost as to what to do.
Currently I'm thinking with our shields being reduced to 6 seconds and it just not being feasible to refresh them constantly on a pet build or CC based sustain build for pvp we need to invest in tactics that Don't use shields... for that we basically need to take all points out of magicka and invest in health instead... utilizing the new buffs in heavy armor, and the +8% max hp for having a pet summoned we stack that with entrophy + 8% and we'll see a build that can actually take a hit from enemy players. The problem with this idea is where is our damage coming from, and more importantly how are we sustaining such a build? There is a pvp set that combined with 7/7 impren makes builds uncritable , and therefor we can't rely on critical surge for anything at all. As for our pet... he's 15k hp in DB and shieldless he's pretty much a one shot. But maybe there is a way to mitigate damage enough to let mutagens or something do the work for us.

For pve... shields are pointless, we;re already the lowest dps...refreshing a shield every 6 seconds is absolutely pointless. Infact it is a liability. So we're going to have to rely on healers, Slot a pet instead of a shield for the extra 8% hp (since our best in slot gear doesn't give us hp) and try to do our basic OL set up (molag kena and shield casting every 6 seconds doesn't work, some come DB you have to lose one or the other)

Now here's the thing... these 2 builds are not transferable from one area to the other... therefor I think those of us who do pvp mostly will have to Tank in the pve setting. and those of us pveing mostly will either have to hide in the Zerg and hope to not get hit in the cross fire, or go cookie cutter sorc.(cookie cutter sorc is using burst damage, 1 resto staff, 1 destro staff with trade mark abilities like crushing shock, mines, streak, and frags to destroy opponents)

Niche builds are basically being annihilated by this DB patch...and proxy counting pets as targets and scaling much higher much faster means pet builds are pretty much done in pvp. Also with our primary curse damage being deemed not a dot...our damage has been nerfed there as well since we can't invest in thermaturge to get that higher amount of damage. So yeah... think pet builds are done for now.

CC sustain builds may still be viable but we're going to need to highly consider not running shields and instead running hp instead because you can't take an even larger dps hit on a low dps build.

Anyway I think since Stamina sorcs are going to be getting some stuff, Magick sorcs need some attention to their passives and abilities as well.
We have lost our Sorc-ness, and need a new identity. Now personally I kinda like the GW2 idea with the mesmer class... Lots of pets, executes, and CC/bleed/confusion/condition effects to take down opponents. For non pet builds I like the idea of having more AOE static (this is my house) type of damage builds to combat the whole invisible/untargetable/shuffle/shielded builds that are going to be new meta. AS for passives... Anything that gives us more life and more life steal at this point.. we're totally screwed on that end without shields.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @Wrobel
This is where the class is left. Perfectly explains it. Now do something about it.

NativeJoe wrote: »

So just throwing this out there... We're supposed to spam shields constantly... how is this going to work with the poisen system?


...just throwing a little logic out here guys...but while this too doesn't effect people that instantly kill their opponents like gankers, or people that stack attacks like cookie cutter sorcs... but for pet builds, sustain builds, and anything else niche... it's going to be border line unfeasible. And this is just an example... there are stronger poisons out there.

100% agree with the above posts. I've played on and off since beta (70/30 split PVP to PVE). Time to make a Stamina NB and join over half the of the PVP population. That's if I continue to play ESO. The sheer lack of direction, multiple COMPLETE overhauls, and no character progression (Champion Points is an utter failure in my book).

Leave Sorc Ward's at 20 seconds.
Leave Harness Magicka the way it is.
DO NOT change Boneshield to absorb magicka.
Give the Mages Guild skill line a grappling hook like you did the Fighters Guild. (assaulting keeps and other structures will be soooo much fun!)

***Install a major and minor shielding system. Make Sorc ward a Major shield along with HEALING WARD (shields that can absorb both magicka and physical dmg should be Major) the other shields should be minor. ***

Revamp multiple Sorcerer skills and passives. Too many to list without the skills in front of me, but from reading through this thread you'll get the idea.

Character advancement - Make DLC with quest lines to further your class skill lines. Could do this in many ways. Add to the existing skill lines. Create more class skill trees / lines. Have a quest line that FORCES you to choose between 2 new class skill trees, you cannot have both! Do something to make uniqueness amongst the same classes. MAYBE even add a 3rd Morph to skills??

Spend major resources on improving every aspect of the overland PVP. IC will be fun for a little while come DB, but vicious death bombs will get very annoying. Your players LOVE the open world of Cyrodiil.

Sincerely,

Kastor Spiritsong - Beloved Sorcerer of few and Destroyer of many

You are going a little over board there. I doubt they will give each skill a third morph as that would mean not only considerable scripting changes but also quite a bit of redesigning of the game's UI. Besides, it is not truly necessary, two morphs per skill is definitely enough as long as those morphs are attractive and interesting.

As for improving the PvP environment, I do agree with you, unfortunately that currently seems like a hardware issue more than a scripting problem. The server housing PvP is not powerful enough to handle the rendering of the scenario + all the AoE particles and spell particles when the server is full. The amount of graphic information and the number crunching is just too much. ZoS has been trying different fixes for that, but clearly it isn't an easy to solve problem and upgrading the server, which probably would be the best alternative, is simply too expensive.

Now... About the shields. True, a shield buff system could implemented to prevent or regulate shield stacking, but it would have to be far more complex than you described. First there are two different degrees of shielding, shields provided by Skills and shields provided by Ultimates. Ultimate shields have to be more powerful.

On top of that there are three different kinds of shields, energy shields that absorb all damage, physical shields which block physical damage and magical shields that prevent magical damage. You'd need different buffs for each one of those to maintain diversity between the different shields. Now, it would be possible to make so only one of this 6 could be active at the same time and that would prevent shield stacking, but I am not sure how happy PvPers would be about such change.

My comments were feedback for the Dev's and ZoS, not you. Stop drinking their kool-aid. DLC is for content, progression, overhaul old areas, adding features, etc. This is what they are paid to do, why we give them money. Adding a UI image and possibly spell effects? That's going overboard? Seriously? Again, things aren't as difficult as ZoS and you make them out to be.

And of course Ultimate shields should be unchanged and stack with the major and minor shields. I kind of figured that would just be a given. People CRY and complain about SORC SHIELD STACKING. Its the bad Sorcs who use 3 shields anyways... So again, put Hardened Ward and Healing Ward as MAJOR shields because they absorb both damage types. Leave the others as Minor and leave the Ultimates alone. This change alone would solve half of the whining on PVP about Sorc shield stacking.

I am sorry you don't want to hear other people's opinions on what you think, but this is a discussion forum, discussion being my point. At this stage, 15 days before the release of the new DLC the best we can hope is for them change one or two useless skill and adjust some numbers, there is absolutely no chance of them overhauling the entire current system and create a third morph for every ability currently available. We are trying to give reasonable feedback to get results and save this class, the keyword being reasonable.

As for shielding, Zenimax already demonstrated that when they turn something a skill give into one of those non stacking buffs that affects all abilities, ultimates included, they will be consistent on that. If they ever follow your idea for shielding, Major shields will be for ultimates and minor shields for normal skills and item sets.

The character advancement was for future DLC and I should have said that from the beginning. (I honestly didn't think I needed to explain that). Of course that wouldn't happen in 15 days. And yes, my thoughts / ideas / opinions are reasonable. Especially the Shields. Nice talk.

You had me up to Mage guild grapnel skill. As a magicka sorc, I'd rather keep my distance. As such I'd rather see a low damage push back skill that causes a short stun so as not to be abused to death over a grapnel.

GRYM.LOCKE wrote: »

Suggestion:

@ZOS_GinaBruno @Wrobel

I prefer Magicka version of Liquid Lighting But perhaps we can change the other Morph to Stamina based skill

Take away the Increased Radius and make it a Physical Skill with Damage over time with a unstable ground effect

for 10 seconds it will every 2 seconds knock down npcs and interrupt casting?

could be quite good

In keeping with the skill lines theme, wouldn't a wind based aoe dot with a knock down upon cast and/or a minor speed debuf make more sense? Not that I agree with losing the other morph, just saying.

genjutsu_kami wrote: »

ArvenAldmeri wrote: »

gamerguy757 wrote: »

OMG I got it! Change CRYSTAL BLAST MORPH TO A STAMINA MORPH. Same as Crystal Frags, but the damage is based off stamina now.

You normal? Care to get one shot in pvp?

NO he's right! give us stamina crystal frags morph! DK have alternative instant dps morph so do Templars sorcs don't!!! so just give it to us and we will shut up !

I never really liked this idea. I don't think a stam copy and paste is a good idea. I'd rather see some sort of crystal melee weapon with an appropriate secondary effect and cast time relative to said effect if warented. I'd be ok with instant cast proc-able via physical attacks much like frags on a short distance (14m maybe) javelin with a root or bleed effect, but would rather see something more unique. A crystal hammer you slam into the ground that causes a cone aoe knock back and stun, either from the hammer exploding or the ground erupting (whichever is easier to pull off) would be cool. Make its damage comparable to WB, divided by the number of targets hit, up to 3.

On a side note, if everyone is going to get hardened ward, then everyone should get scales, cloak, and rushed ceremony. Sharing is caring

Glantir

I think the reason why dark deal have a cast time is the magicka/stamina recovery and if this is really the reason they could remove that part of the skill in my opinion and give us an instant heal or they change the skill to a dps skill....

Grao

Natas013 wrote: »

klink012 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

klink012 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

klink012 wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

NativeJoe wrote: »

*******************************************************************************************
IF YOU DON"T UNDERSTAND THE ISSUE SORCS ARE HAVING WITH SHIELD REDUCTION AND OTHER NERFS PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A POST STATING YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND. Thanks ~Broken'Stick
*******************************************************************************************


Why is the duration 6 seconds?
Because how long does fear last? right so u shield up. the NB gets a smirk, buffs up, fears you, u run around like and idiot lose ur shields, and he gets his combo in unmitigated. A well timed Dizzy swing and ur on the ground, ult time as soon as the shields expire. IT is basically just a way to give EVERY class their own shot at us without having to go through any mitigation. and lets not forget the dirty little secret of the transmutation set. If you are healed by a person and are wearing 7/7 impen... Sorcs CANNOT heal off you because you are immune to critical strikes. Also with everyone having shields...same issue. So sorcs cannot recover hp.

Why do I personally have an issue with the changes?
It isn't that they Changed just my shields and I'm QQing in the corner. let me try to paint a picture everyone can see.

In pvp... Every class has it's own damage mitigation techniques. NBs can stealth, shuffle, dodge. Dks Traditionally are the tankiest of builds and can mitigate damage greatly; they also get flappy wings to reflect direct damage projectiles such as crystal frags, overload, crushing shock, flame clench, and that sorta thing. Templars can out mitigate, out heal, and have insane resource management to get by, Sorcs have Streak, rune prison, soft CC, and Shields as our Damage mitigation techniques.

A broad description that isn't by any means absolute. or the entire story...but u get the idea...every class has it's own WAY of dealing with heavy damage.

So I'm playing a pet build...doing Awsome btw : https://www.twitch.tv/trixytricks/v/64395447 : And then Zos comes in and goes hey... shield duration reduced by 70%, Your pet curse now is not considered a dot and thus does not benefit from CP in thermaturge (these things are 2 major nerfs to my pets survival, my resource management, my ability to not get randomly ganked, etc) ..... okay awsome..... but they weren't finished. ALSO all shields now protect against all damage, every class can now shield stack, AND we're upping the damage of proxy. (5 pets x 25% more damage + me roughly means im going to take 20k damage from it by myself...if not more) So now all my opponents just got tougher, my dps just got lower, and they put in basically a kill switch to my pet build.

understand a little bit of my frustration here?

By no means is that all they did, nor all they will do... they gotta do something about stamina sorc now...which probably means magicka sorcs of all kinds are about to lose something.

And thats just talking about this specific build. Sorc shield tanks, CC sustain sorc builds, and others are on the chopping block too. It's a wide range of builds that are going to suffer by changing a "class defining" skill.

Why do I have problems with it in pve?
basically our BIS gear (to be remotely competitive) doesn't give HP, and our defenses are paper thin... like unshielded we get one shot thin. So traditionally we used shields so we didn't have to lose THAT much dps by dropping lots of points into hp or jumping heavy armor or the like. Now in pve they are basically making us take off our shields..because there is no way to run molag kena (skills cost 33% more) and do a skill rotation and be spamming shields every 6 seconds. Which means we have to adapt... Maybe slotting a pet in the place of the shield would give enough hp room for templar healer to keep us up...idk but either way it's a massive change to sorcs, and it's a tough bullet to swallow to have to depend on the competency of another for survival.

Why do I feel like a wet noodle next to other classes in the dps role?
have you been in a parse with someone on the higher end of the dps spectrum. aka actually wearing bis gear? a NB or DK can easily pull 50k dps. Templar HEALERS doing their job can do 20k+ dps. Sorcs doing all their rotations, perfectly buffed, and in cookie cutter builds struggle to break 25k.

And remember the other classes shield stacking too...so if your doing the same ur cutting your dps for a no win scenerio. Dk's are now the best shield stackers with flappy wings, thorn shield (reflects 33% damage back), and the fact they can self heal and pretty much already dominated the damage mitigation scene prior to this anyway.

Our shields where donated to the other classes. my honest opinion is to ditch em, and try to go for something else. otherwise it is kinda like the vanilla days of wow...paladin vs paladin.

What else do I hate about DB changes as far as sorcs are concerned?
Currently we lack Complete originality in the area of Stamina sorcs (which use very few class skills and basically just use being a "sorc" as a utility)
And With magicka sorcs being the bottom of the barrel dps wise across the board and the fact our class "unique-ness" has been lost due to the fact everyone is now inheriting our damage mitigation techniques while retaining their own...
Get ganked by a shielded NB from stealth...because you forgot to spam your shield Every 6 seconds while walking around.
Sorcs are no longer the best shielders... DK's are. With flappy wings, thorn shield, and heavy damage mitigation...they're the new kings.
I hate that I'm having to rethink and recraft all my gear now. No longer can I depend on shields to get me through...but im lost as to what to do.
Currently I'm thinking with our shields being reduced to 6 seconds and it just not being feasible to refresh them constantly on a pet build or CC based sustain build for pvp we need to invest in tactics that Don't use shields... for that we basically need to take all points out of magicka and invest in health instead... utilizing the new buffs in heavy armor, and the +8% max hp for having a pet summoned we stack that with entrophy + 8% and we'll see a build that can actually take a hit from enemy players. The problem with this idea is where is our damage coming from, and more importantly how are we sustaining such a build? There is a pvp set that combined with 7/7 impren makes builds uncritable , and therefor we can't rely on critical surge for anything at all. As for our pet... he's 15k hp in DB and shieldless he's pretty much a one shot. But maybe there is a way to mitigate damage enough to let mutagens or something do the work for us.

For pve... shields are pointless, we;re already the lowest dps...refreshing a shield every 6 seconds is absolutely pointless. Infact it is a liability. So we're going to have to rely on healers, Slot a pet instead of a shield for the extra 8% hp (since our best in slot gear doesn't give us hp) and try to do our basic OL set up (molag kena and shield casting every 6 seconds doesn't work, some come DB you have to lose one or the other)

Now here's the thing... these 2 builds are not transferable from one area to the other... therefor I think those of us who do pvp mostly will have to Tank in the pve setting. and those of us pveing mostly will either have to hide in the Zerg and hope to not get hit in the cross fire, or go cookie cutter sorc.(cookie cutter sorc is using burst damage, 1 resto staff, 1 destro staff with trade mark abilities like crushing shock, mines, streak, and frags to destroy opponents)

Niche builds are basically being annihilated by this DB patch...and proxy counting pets as targets and scaling much higher much faster means pet builds are pretty much done in pvp. Also with our primary curse damage being deemed not a dot...our damage has been nerfed there as well since we can't invest in thermaturge to get that higher amount of damage. So yeah... think pet builds are done for now.

CC sustain builds may still be viable but we're going to need to highly consider not running shields and instead running hp instead because you can't take an even larger dps hit on a low dps build.

Anyway I think since Stamina sorcs are going to be getting some stuff, Magick sorcs need some attention to their passives and abilities as well.
We have lost our Sorc-ness, and need a new identity. Now personally I kinda like the GW2 idea with the mesmer class... Lots of pets, executes, and CC/bleed/confusion/condition effects to take down opponents. For non pet builds I like the idea of having more AOE static (this is my house) type of damage builds to combat the whole invisible/untargetable/shuffle/shielded builds that are going to be new meta. AS for passives... Anything that gives us more life and more life steal at this point.. we're totally screwed on that end without shields.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @Wrobel
This is where the class is left. Perfectly explains it. Now do something about it.

NativeJoe wrote: »

So just throwing this out there... We're supposed to spam shields constantly... how is this going to work with the poisen system?


...just throwing a little logic out here guys...but while this too doesn't effect people that instantly kill their opponents like gankers, or people that stack attacks like cookie cutter sorcs... but for pet builds, sustain builds, and anything else niche... it's going to be border line unfeasible. And this is just an example... there are stronger poisons out there.

100% agree with the above posts. I've played on and off since beta (70/30 split PVP to PVE). Time to make a Stamina NB and join over half the of the PVP population. That's if I continue to play ESO. The sheer lack of direction, multiple COMPLETE overhauls, and no character progression (Champion Points is an utter failure in my book).

Leave Sorc Ward's at 20 seconds.
Leave Harness Magicka the way it is.
DO NOT change Boneshield to absorb magicka.
Give the Mages Guild skill line a grappling hook like you did the Fighters Guild. (assaulting keeps and other structures will be soooo much fun!)

***Install a major and minor shielding system. Make Sorc ward a Major shield along with HEALING WARD (shields that can absorb both magicka and physical dmg should be Major) the other shields should be minor. ***

Revamp multiple Sorcerer skills and passives. Too many to list without the skills in front of me, but from reading through this thread you'll get the idea.

Character advancement - Make DLC with quest lines to further your class skill lines. Could do this in many ways. Add to the existing skill lines. Create more class skill trees / lines. Have a quest line that FORCES you to choose between 2 new class skill trees, you cannot have both! Do something to make uniqueness amongst the same classes. MAYBE even add a 3rd Morph to skills??

Spend major resources on improving every aspect of the overland PVP. IC will be fun for a little while come DB, but vicious death bombs will get very annoying. Your players LOVE the open world of Cyrodiil.

Sincerely,

Kastor Spiritsong - Beloved Sorcerer of few and Destroyer of many

You are going a little over board there. I doubt they will give each skill a third morph as that would mean not only considerable scripting changes but also quite a bit of redesigning of the game's UI. Besides, it is not truly necessary, two morphs per skill is definitely enough as long as those morphs are attractive and interesting.

As for improving the PvP environment, I do agree with you, unfortunately that currently seems like a hardware issue more than a scripting problem. The server housing PvP is not powerful enough to handle the rendering of the scenario + all the AoE particles and spell particles when the server is full. The amount of graphic information and the number crunching is just too much. ZoS has been trying different fixes for that, but clearly it isn't an easy to solve problem and upgrading the server, which probably would be the best alternative, is simply too expensive.

Now... About the shields. True, a shield buff system could implemented to prevent or regulate shield stacking, but it would have to be far more complex than you described. First there are two different degrees of shielding, shields provided by Skills and shields provided by Ultimates. Ultimate shields have to be more powerful.

On top of that there are three different kinds of shields, energy shields that absorb all damage, physical shields which block physical damage and magical shields that prevent magical damage. You'd need different buffs for each one of those to maintain diversity between the different shields. Now, it would be possible to make so only one of this 6 could be active at the same time and that would prevent shield stacking, but I am not sure how happy PvPers would be about such change.

My comments were feedback for the Dev's and ZoS, not you. Stop drinking their kool-aid. DLC is for content, progression, overhaul old areas, adding features, etc. This is what they are paid to do, why we give them money. Adding a UI image and possibly spell effects? That's going overboard? Seriously? Again, things aren't as difficult as ZoS and you make them out to be.

And of course Ultimate shields should be unchanged and stack with the major and minor shields. I kind of figured that would just be a given. People CRY and complain about SORC SHIELD STACKING. Its the bad Sorcs who use 3 shields anyways... So again, put Hardened Ward and Healing Ward as MAJOR shields because they absorb both damage types. Leave the others as Minor and leave the Ultimates alone. This change alone would solve half of the whining on PVP about Sorc shield stacking.

I am sorry you don't want to hear other people's opinions on what you think, but this is a discussion forum, discussion being my point. At this stage, 15 days before the release of the new DLC the best we can hope is for them change one or two useless skill and adjust some numbers, there is absolutely no chance of them overhauling the entire current system and create a third morph for every ability currently available. We are trying to give reasonable feedback to get results and save this class, the keyword being reasonable.

As for shielding, Zenimax already demonstrated that when they turn something a skill give into one of those non stacking buffs that affects all abilities, ultimates included, they will be consistent on that. If they ever follow your idea for shielding, Major shields will be for ultimates and minor shields for normal skills and item sets.

The character advancement was for future DLC and I should have said that from the beginning. (I honestly didn't think I needed to explain that). Of course that wouldn't happen in 15 days. And yes, my thoughts / ideas / opinions are reasonable. Especially the Shields. Nice talk.

You had me up to Mage guild grapnel skill. As a magicka sorc, I'd rather keep my distance. As such I'd rather see a low damage push back skill that causes a short stun so as not to be abused to death over a grapnel.

GRYM.LOCKE wrote: »

Suggestion:

@ZOS_GinaBruno @Wrobel

I prefer Magicka version of Liquid Lighting But perhaps we can change the other Morph to Stamina based skill

Take away the Increased Radius and make it a Physical Skill with Damage over time with a unstable ground effect

for 10 seconds it will every 2 seconds knock down npcs and interrupt casting?

could be quite good

In keeping with the skill lines theme, wouldn't a wind based aoe dot with a knock down upon cast and/or a minor speed debuf make more sense? Not that I agree with losing the other morph, just saying.

genjutsu_kami wrote: »

ArvenAldmeri wrote: »

gamerguy757 wrote: »

OMG I got it! Change CRYSTAL BLAST MORPH TO A STAMINA MORPH. Same as Crystal Frags, but the damage is based off stamina now.

You normal? Care to get one shot in pvp?

NO he's right! give us stamina crystal frags morph! DK have alternative instant dps morph so do Templars sorcs don't!!! so just give it to us and we will shut up !

I never really liked this idea. I don't think a stam copy and paste is a good idea. I'd rather see some sort of crystal melee weapon with an appropriate secondary effect and cast time relative to said effect if warented. I'd be ok with instant cast proc-able via physical attacks much like frags on a short distance (14m maybe) javelin with a root or bleed effect, but would rather see something more unique. A crystal hammer you slam into the ground that causes a cone aoe knock back and stun, either from the hammer exploding or the ground erupting (whichever is easier to pull off) would be cool. Make its damage comparable to WB, divided by the number of targets hit, up to 3.

On a side note, if everyone is going to get hardened ward, then everyone should get scales, cloak, and rushed ceremony. Sharing is caring

Once upon a time Sorcerers had a Wind ability that pushed back, I believe. It was on early beta stages, but the ability was replaced.

I agree, if they were to replace Lightning Flood with a Stmina Morph it would have to be a DoT wind AOE, but like you I don't like the idea of giving up that morph.

As for changing Crystal Blast to a Proc similar to Crystal Fragments... I do agree with you, it would be interesting if it could be made a more unique skill instead of essentially a copy of Crystal Fragments, but we are going for expedience here, giving ZOS alternatives we can live with that won't take them 6 months to come out with because they have to design new animations, new effects, etc. Sorcerers, both Magicka and Stamina need help right now, not six months from now when they are ready to release another DLC.

Minalan

I just want the animation cut down on dark deal, for an instant ability, it shouldn't be interruptible.

STEVIL

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Attacking Stam Sorcs will get you no where. Instead why don't you focus on changes that will improve Magic Sorcs. I'll give you some ideas. Revamp Overload this skill is the reason your sustained DPS is the lowest Magic DPS in MoL. Fight this terrible Surge change. Get Dark Exchange to be actually usable. Get a complete class passive revamp; we have the worst for magic and stam.

IMo two good options to consider are:

TWO Shield morphs:
EMPOWERED WARD lasts for 50% longer, so 9 secs off a base six sec shield.
ENERGIZING WARD lasts for six seconds but at the end of six seconds its remaining strength converts to magica or magica/stamina at an X-to-1 ratio. (See blazing shield which goes boom at end with aoe burst and healing ward which converts remaining strength to health at end.)
Consider scaling these off HEALTH so both STA and MAG get equal coverage. ratio of scale TBD by playtest.

DARK NEXUS: Switch out dark exchange for a self-centered aoe burst damage with one magic damage morph (mag scaled) and one poison damage morph (sta based) giving both sorcs a rapid-cast spammable attack that procs the 8% dark magic heal as well as a change at procing the surge on crits.

Keep surge as is in the new revision, allowing for playtest to possibly raise heal or quicken ticks. it SHOULD be and needs to be flat rate. but triggered by any attacks crit.

YMMV

Changing passives? Sorcs got some good ones.

STEVIL

potirondb16_ESO wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

kmatt wrote: »

STAM MORPH OF OVERLOAD,

Failing that change how Ultimats work so if its scaling off Stam it does physical damage and if its scaling off magic do magic damage for all class skills, this means that the champion point system works for your build.

Stam sorc needs some love still although hurricane is some nice improvement to its damage it has lost its utility of movement speed which was a big reason to use.

Again ill ask for the "Stone Shard" morph that is the Stam version of the morph we already have that adds a little AoE.

Last thing to say, make the passives useful as a stam sorc half of them are useless and no point taking & now with fighters guild changes we are punished for using our own class skills over fighters guild skills. Something like Major mending when dadric summoning skill is slotted, or at least change the pet passives to be useful to some extent without pets.

Stam Sorc is actually in a far better place than Mag. Sorc. now.

You guys deserve the boost FINALLY, and if other tweaks would further improve your lot - then by all means ask for them.

I would appreciate it if you could also comment on the Mag. Sorcs. nerfs however, as this is the overall Sorc. thread, and Stam. Sorcs. have the benefit of their own exclusive thread to feedback on.

id rather not have to 'donate' skills to a niche build that contridicts the purpose of a sorcerer, who is a master of magic. Mag sorc should be better, in most respects, to stam sorc. you guys want a buff? you should be calling for duel scaling, like the skills scale off your highest stat.

I'd rather not read another one of this ignorant post from someone who has no idea what an Elder Scrolls Sorcerer is. You should go do some research before you dismiss my class that is just a lore friendly as yours. Additionally, don't tell me what buffs I should be asking for if you've never played my class, dual scaling is just a terrible idea.

Oblivion Sorcerer

Morrowind Sorcerer

Have you even read those links you sent? I do agree that stamina sorcerers are something in the Elder Scroll's world, but as the game currently is set up, it is not at all like the Lore. First of all, stamina sorcerers in ESO are forced into medium armor, which they really didn't use that much on the other ES games. That affects how well sorcerers can shield them selves and absorb magika which is one of the class hugest features in the previous games. Also, because you are using medium armor your magika pool, which should be the largest in the game according to all Lore, will be shot... Because otherwise you will have no damage behind your abilities.

ESO can't conform perfectly to the other ES games because it is MMO. It needs a different sort of balancing and I am sorry... MMO wise, sorcerers are primarily magic casters. Just like Nightblades are assassins and thus the class to go for stamina builds, just templars are supposed to the best healers and DK the best tanks. I understand wanting stamina sorcerers to be more viable, but doing so at the expense of the class losing its magika orientation is idiotic at best. For a long time sorcerers have had the worst DPS in general and near to no utility and this patch is only making things worse, at least for Magika sorcerers.

You are absolutely correct. This is an MMO, and because it's an MMO every single class needs to be equally viable. This includes Stam Sorcs. Furthermore, why are we the only class that has to put up with this amount of stupidity? I don't ever see Magic Templars telling Stam Templars that they have no right to exist.

No... I am sorry... You are just wrong... The majority of the MMOs have each class very specialized. Viable only means it is playable, not that playing it will give you awesome results. I am not saying Stamina Sorcerers have no right to exist, I fully support you guys as long as buffing your side of things doesn't mean more nerfs to the Magika sorcerer builds. Unfortunately it seems Zenimax can't do that!

As for why you don't have to deal with this sort of comment on other classes threads, well maybe it is because their class doesn't already suck! Templar are still the best healers in the game, which fits the MMO Meta for the class. DKs are still the best Tanks and Nightblades are still the best Stamina DPS. Unfortunately Sorcerers are the Worst Magika DPS currently in the game instead of the best... That is why we don't need more nerfs so Stamina Sorcs can be better!

Also, I was arguing against your Lore argument that Stamina sorcerers exist in Elder Scrolls because you will never be able to get good results with the same sort of build we used in the other games while playing ESO. Gods know I tried. I started playing as a sorcerer with heavy armor and a two handed sword that focused most of the points in having a huge magika pool... Exactly like the other Elder Scrolls games... Guess how well that worked?

Actually a vast majority of MMOs don't have very specialized classes anymore. Once Blizzard realized people don't like to pigeonholed into a single specific roll because of the class they chose pretty much every company since has followed suit. In most MMOs today nearly every class has at least one viable dps spec.

No viable means the class is capable of performing well enough to be brought into endgame content. Go ask someone that has cleared Vet MoL if they would take a Stam Sorc with them over any other class including Magic Sorc. We have the worst DPS and bring no group utility. We are not currently a viable endgame trial class.

Depending on the content your running NBs are actually far better healers than Templars. Stam DKs are the best stam DPS class, and probably have the highest DPS out of all eight classes. Additionally, the Elder Scrolls lore supports Magic NBs far better than Stam NBs. None of that actually explains why we have to put up with so many ignorant people.

Attacking Stam Sorcs will get you no where. Instead why don't you focus on changes that will improve Magic Sorcs. I'll give you some ideas. Revamp Overload this skill is the reason your sustained DPS is the lowest Magic DPS in MoL. Fight this terrible Surge change. Get Dark Exchange to be actually usable. Get a complete class passive revamp; we have the worst for magic and stam.

And WTF are you talking about??? Overload is the only Ultimate in the sorcerer class that is still useful. Atronach is stupid and doesn't DPS nearly enough and Negate was nerfed to near nonexistence! Revamp overload, you are only suggesting that because you want overload to have a freaking stamina special morph!

Overload is a terrible ultimate, and the reason Magic Sorcs have such low DPS in long fights. I want nothing to do with Overload in it's current form, even if we were given a stamina morph. I hated the skill when I played on my Magic Sorc as well. So don't assume you know why I'm suggesting something. If you know anything about Magic Sorc DPS then you will know that using Overload in a fight that is about 3+ minutes long is a huge DPS loss over using Meteor. However, when using Overload on short duration fights Magic Sorcs have the highest DPS. This is one of the main reason people dismiss Magic Sorcs when you ask for DPS increases. Getting Overload exchanged for some sustained DPS is the best way to help this class, other than removing the pets.

Overload should be reworked to be an instant cast, single target, low cost ultimate. Once this happens the class can be balanced properly.

Yes, remove sorcerer's only ultimate that still have uses instead of removing dark exchange, a useless ability not even 1% of the sorcs ever slots in their bars. You clearly know what you are talking about.

To fix the sustained DPS issue for magika sorcs Dark Exchange should be reworked in a spam-able spell with a melee and a ranged morph to untie the class from always needing Force Pulse and Destro Staff. With such an ability available Zenimax could easily mess with the number till they got sorcer DPS up to par with the other magika DPSs without buffing the other classes as well and without causing too much disturbance in PvP.

It would also help with self healing as every activation of our spam-able ability would proc Blood Magic, healing the caster. Pets don't need to be removed, they need a few reworks, that is all.

As far as magika sorc goes, simply modify the Proc chance of Crystal blast and you got it, but that has repercussion upon pvp a LOT. That's why I think it should be look at from a diversification of the build perspecive.

Add a class AOE that we can use, help people get rid of Bound Armor by giving the magika bonus somewhere else and let us use some much needed versatility.

Maybe an Aoe with the same type of mechanic as Healing Spring but for Domage.Something to spam when needed that we can put Inside our offbar.

Not sure this is what you mean but DONT get rid of Bound Armor. its necessary for those who want to work a RESISTANCE based build instead of a Shield based one.

As for aoe damage, see my dark nexus idea one post up. A dark magic aoe spammable with a magic and poison morph solves a LOT of issues in one swell foop for both sta and mag.

Valrien

STEVIL wrote: »

potirondb16_ESO wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

kmatt wrote: »

STAM MORPH OF OVERLOAD,

Failing that change how Ultimats work so if its scaling off Stam it does physical damage and if its scaling off magic do magic damage for all class skills, this means that the champion point system works for your build.

Stam sorc needs some love still although hurricane is some nice improvement to its damage it has lost its utility of movement speed which was a big reason to use.

Again ill ask for the "Stone Shard" morph that is the Stam version of the morph we already have that adds a little AoE.

Last thing to say, make the passives useful as a stam sorc half of them are useless and no point taking & now with fighters guild changes we are punished for using our own class skills over fighters guild skills. Something like Major mending when dadric summoning skill is slotted, or at least change the pet passives to be useful to some extent without pets.

Stam Sorc is actually in a far better place than Mag. Sorc. now.

You guys deserve the boost FINALLY, and if other tweaks would further improve your lot - then by all means ask for them.

I would appreciate it if you could also comment on the Mag. Sorcs. nerfs however, as this is the overall Sorc. thread, and Stam. Sorcs. have the benefit of their own exclusive thread to feedback on.

id rather not have to 'donate' skills to a niche build that contridicts the purpose of a sorcerer, who is a master of magic. Mag sorc should be better, in most respects, to stam sorc. you guys want a buff? you should be calling for duel scaling, like the skills scale off your highest stat.

I'd rather not read another one of this ignorant post from someone who has no idea what an Elder Scrolls Sorcerer is. You should go do some research before you dismiss my class that is just a lore friendly as yours. Additionally, don't tell me what buffs I should be asking for if you've never played my class, dual scaling is just a terrible idea.

Oblivion Sorcerer

Morrowind Sorcerer

Have you even read those links you sent? I do agree that stamina sorcerers are something in the Elder Scroll's world, but as the game currently is set up, it is not at all like the Lore. First of all, stamina sorcerers in ESO are forced into medium armor, which they really didn't use that much on the other ES games. That affects how well sorcerers can shield them selves and absorb magika which is one of the class hugest features in the previous games. Also, because you are using medium armor your magika pool, which should be the largest in the game according to all Lore, will be shot... Because otherwise you will have no damage behind your abilities.

ESO can't conform perfectly to the other ES games because it is MMO. It needs a different sort of balancing and I am sorry... MMO wise, sorcerers are primarily magic casters. Just like Nightblades are assassins and thus the class to go for stamina builds, just templars are supposed to the best healers and DK the best tanks. I understand wanting stamina sorcerers to be more viable, but doing so at the expense of the class losing its magika orientation is idiotic at best. For a long time sorcerers have had the worst DPS in general and near to no utility and this patch is only making things worse, at least for Magika sorcerers.

You are absolutely correct. This is an MMO, and because it's an MMO every single class needs to be equally viable. This includes Stam Sorcs. Furthermore, why are we the only class that has to put up with this amount of stupidity? I don't ever see Magic Templars telling Stam Templars that they have no right to exist.

No... I am sorry... You are just wrong... The majority of the MMOs have each class very specialized. Viable only means it is playable, not that playing it will give you awesome results. I am not saying Stamina Sorcerers have no right to exist, I fully support you guys as long as buffing your side of things doesn't mean more nerfs to the Magika sorcerer builds. Unfortunately it seems Zenimax can't do that!

As for why you don't have to deal with this sort of comment on other classes threads, well maybe it is because their class doesn't already suck! Templar are still the best healers in the game, which fits the MMO Meta for the class. DKs are still the best Tanks and Nightblades are still the best Stamina DPS. Unfortunately Sorcerers are the Worst Magika DPS currently in the game instead of the best... That is why we don't need more nerfs so Stamina Sorcs can be better!

Also, I was arguing against your Lore argument that Stamina sorcerers exist in Elder Scrolls because you will never be able to get good results with the same sort of build we used in the other games while playing ESO. Gods know I tried. I started playing as a sorcerer with heavy armor and a two handed sword that focused most of the points in having a huge magika pool... Exactly like the other Elder Scrolls games... Guess how well that worked?

Actually a vast majority of MMOs don't have very specialized classes anymore. Once Blizzard realized people don't like to pigeonholed into a single specific roll because of the class they chose pretty much every company since has followed suit. In most MMOs today nearly every class has at least one viable dps spec.

No viable means the class is capable of performing well enough to be brought into endgame content. Go ask someone that has cleared Vet MoL if they would take a Stam Sorc with them over any other class including Magic Sorc. We have the worst DPS and bring no group utility. We are not currently a viable endgame trial class.

Depending on the content your running NBs are actually far better healers than Templars. Stam DKs are the best stam DPS class, and probably have the highest DPS out of all eight classes. Additionally, the Elder Scrolls lore supports Magic NBs far better than Stam NBs. None of that actually explains why we have to put up with so many ignorant people.

Attacking Stam Sorcs will get you no where. Instead why don't you focus on changes that will improve Magic Sorcs. I'll give you some ideas. Revamp Overload this skill is the reason your sustained DPS is the lowest Magic DPS in MoL. Fight this terrible Surge change. Get Dark Exchange to be actually usable. Get a complete class passive revamp; we have the worst for magic and stam.

And WTF are you talking about??? Overload is the only Ultimate in the sorcerer class that is still useful. Atronach is stupid and doesn't DPS nearly enough and Negate was nerfed to near nonexistence! Revamp overload, you are only suggesting that because you want overload to have a freaking stamina special morph!

Overload is a terrible ultimate, and the reason Magic Sorcs have such low DPS in long fights. I want nothing to do with Overload in it's current form, even if we were given a stamina morph. I hated the skill when I played on my Magic Sorc as well. So don't assume you know why I'm suggesting something. If you know anything about Magic Sorc DPS then you will know that using Overload in a fight that is about 3+ minutes long is a huge DPS loss over using Meteor. However, when using Overload on short duration fights Magic Sorcs have the highest DPS. This is one of the main reason people dismiss Magic Sorcs when you ask for DPS increases. Getting Overload exchanged for some sustained DPS is the best way to help this class, other than removing the pets.

Overload should be reworked to be an instant cast, single target, low cost ultimate. Once this happens the class can be balanced properly.

Yes, remove sorcerer's only ultimate that still have uses instead of removing dark exchange, a useless ability not even 1% of the sorcs ever slots in their bars. You clearly know what you are talking about.

To fix the sustained DPS issue for magika sorcs Dark Exchange should be reworked in a spam-able spell with a melee and a ranged morph to untie the class from always needing Force Pulse and Destro Staff. With such an ability available Zenimax could easily mess with the number till they got sorcer DPS up to par with the other magika DPSs without buffing the other classes as well and without causing too much disturbance in PvP.

It would also help with self healing as every activation of our spam-able ability would proc Blood Magic, healing the caster. Pets don't need to be removed, they need a few reworks, that is all.

As far as magika sorc goes, simply modify the Proc chance of Crystal blast and you got it, but that has repercussion upon pvp a LOT. That's why I think it should be look at from a diversification of the build perspecive.

Add a class AOE that we can use, help people get rid of Bound Armor by giving the magika bonus somewhere else and let us use some much needed versatility.

Maybe an Aoe with the same type of mechanic as Healing Spring but for Domage.Something to spam when needed that we can put Inside our offbar.

Not sure this is what you mean but DONT get rid of Bound Armor. its necessary for those who want to work a RESISTANCE based build instead of a Shield based one.

As for aoe damage, see my dark nexus idea one post up. A dark magic aoe spammable with a magic and poison morph solves a LOT of issues in one swell foop for both sta and mag.

Then the bonuses should be changed and the magicka should be moved.

code65536

STEVIL wrote: »

Not sure this is what you mean but DONT get rid of Bound Armor. its necessary for those who want to work a RESISTANCE based build instead of a Shield based one.

You do realize that Minor Resolve and Minor Ward will only give you 1.5% damage mitigation, right? It's a bloody rounding error. The only reason anyone uses Bound Armor is for the max stat bonus. It is otherwise a complete waste of bar space.

ninti

I created a forum account just to come here and say this:

Don't nerf Sorcerer shields please. This is going to mean I am going to die a LOT more in PVE. It is going to suck.

AshTal

I have not read all the posts however put simply

1) Shield duration change is completely pointless. The big issue was PvP with shield stacking and insanely high shields on the uber 1% however this change will do nothing. The people who will be hit will be PvEers who never hurt anyone and wil now struggle with a lot of content. The idea would be to stop shield stacking and limit the size of the shield to 50% player health rather than this 6 second duration. ((Anyone else Arena where you could build an uber shield spell cast it rest to get back all Mana and it stayed))

2) You keep trying to improve pets. However while their damage is still crap and we only have 5 slots (and we lose them if we switch weapons) they will only ever be worth something in solo PvE. As such an extra 5K HP in PvP where NO ONE uses them is pointless. Pet damage needs to be increased in PvP by 300% so that people don't just ignore them but need to kill them. Right now everyone ignores the pets unless nothing else is in range. Also the AI is so stupid they just get killed by AOEs.

3) I kinda like the addition to the bound aegis so I can use it without losing my appearance. I am not sure I will but now its an option and I might trade out one of my shields for it. However its still a pain as its toggle on so it costs 1 slot on each bar which is a lot.

4) Don't think there is a 4 Sorcs are not getting much other than a huge nerf from what I can see.

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO

Yeah, sorcs are pretty much dead next patch, barely any decent class skills left anymore, all other classes does things better than a sorc so it's completely useless to be one. I really hope that they fix them but knowing zenimax we'll just keep getting nerfed, lol. Will be so much fun to see the game come crashing down when TES6 is released. xD

klink012

Minalan wrote: »

Testing Feedback:

A number of changes were made to our class when shields, undaunted, and fighters guild changes were made that affect our playstyle. It left our class seriously broken, and it needs to be fixed.


1. Sorcs need a spammable attack ability other than force pulse or crushing shock. Seriously, this is asinine design. To get competitive SPELL DAMAGE on a MAGICKA SORC, we have to duel wield SWORDS. Then when you do, you don't have a basic ranged attack, we have to borrow one that everyone gets. We used to at least be able to spam trapping webs.

2. Dark heal, why isn't this ability instant/spammable? Why would anyone bother to use it when it's not? Fix this. If we don't get long shields and no burst heal on crits, it's the least you could do.

3. Overload - fix the bugs that cause this ability to stick or misfire constantly. Or when you cast it without hitting block, the AOE lightning goes off. It happens every other time I fire this ultimate! Boss fight deaths and PVP losses when it's unnecessary. Dawn breaker used to be our ultimate of choice, now we have this to come back to and it's terrible.

4. Mages wrath: fix one morph to do more base damage, while the other one explodes for more. Our execute is behind everyone else's (radiant destruction anyone?)

Yes please.

dagonbeer

ninti wrote: »

I created a forum account just to come here and say this:

Don't nerf Sorcerer shields please. This is going to mean I am going to die a LOT more in PVE. It is going to suck.

Don't worry. Just keep one of our many class DoTs on the foe and you'll have improved chances of scoring a 2k heal.

NativeJoe

Check this out.... been fooling around on the PTS lol



Sorcs mysteriously lost all that really makes them unique...but now we got hp? rofl

But here's some kewl stuff I've done







I love sorcs and I wish they could maintain their... unique "build it your way" sort of game play and maintain viability.

but seriously I'll settle for just making CP effect pets. CP will help their dps, survivability, and are chief complaints about them. Give us at least "something" we can call our own.

STEVIL

dagonbeer wrote: »

ninti wrote: »

I created a forum account just to come here and say this:

Don't nerf Sorcerer shields please. This is going to mean I am going to die a LOT more in PVE. It is going to suck.

Don't worry. Just keep one of our many class DoTs on the foe and you'll have improved chances of scoring a 2k heal.

or the dot from weapon skills and guild skills... since surge isn't limited to class skills crits.

Running my sorc with a layered offense and text set to only show outgoing crits its pretty rare to see more than a fraction of a sec between something criting.

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO

NativeJoe wrote: »

Check this out.... been fooling around on the PTS lol



Sorcs mysteriously lost all that really makes them unique...but now we got hp? rofl

But here's some kewl stuff I've done







I love sorcs and I wish they could maintain their... unique "build it your way" sort of game play and maintain viability.

but seriously I'll settle for just making CP effect pets. CP will help their dps, survivability, and are chief complaints about them. Give us at least "something" we can call our own.

Yeah, I'd love for sorc pets to be viable in group settings etc, but as of now, they're more of a liability than anything else when in a group. The healing twilight I only run when I'm going to heal stuff but that's about it.

tennant94

How did you get 60k max magicka?