Official Feedback Thread for Sorcerers

Valrien

Why not put the single-target spam on Bound Aegis as a "Bound Weapon"-type spell. Quick shot from a bound bow or a stab from a bound sword? The pet toggles already have active abilities, why not the armor as well?

potirondb16_ESO

I don't know about you but sometime I feel like Dark Magic should give us more magika (power of the dark side), Daedric Summoning Should give us and group more sorcery, (summoning the force), and Storm Calling should give us more ressource regeneration (going back to the source)...

Like 8% more magika for haaving a Dark Magic ability slotted (would be either negate, dark conversion, or Crystal blast) Keep the 8% bonus to stamina with bound amor but make it so that it is just while slotted and give the skill a bonus upon activation. Do max health on the other morph and maybe gives minor protection for 15s. if activated.

Gives minor sorcery for activation a Daedric summoning skill, lot of viable option in that line.

More ressource regen from slotting a Storm Calling ability, same a lot of viable option.

That would restart theocrafting for sorcerer !

Grao

potirondb16_ESO wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

kmatt wrote: »

STAM MORPH OF OVERLOAD,

Failing that change how Ultimats work so if its scaling off Stam it does physical damage and if its scaling off magic do magic damage for all class skills, this means that the champion point system works for your build.

Stam sorc needs some love still although hurricane is some nice improvement to its damage it has lost its utility of movement speed which was a big reason to use.

Again ill ask for the "Stone Shard" morph that is the Stam version of the morph we already have that adds a little AoE.

Last thing to say, make the passives useful as a stam sorc half of them are useless and no point taking & now with fighters guild changes we are punished for using our own class skills over fighters guild skills. Something like Major mending when dadric summoning skill is slotted, or at least change the pet passives to be useful to some extent without pets.

Stam Sorc is actually in a far better place than Mag. Sorc. now.

You guys deserve the boost FINALLY, and if other tweaks would further improve your lot - then by all means ask for them.

I would appreciate it if you could also comment on the Mag. Sorcs. nerfs however, as this is the overall Sorc. thread, and Stam. Sorcs. have the benefit of their own exclusive thread to feedback on.

id rather not have to 'donate' skills to a niche build that contridicts the purpose of a sorcerer, who is a master of magic. Mag sorc should be better, in most respects, to stam sorc. you guys want a buff? you should be calling for duel scaling, like the skills scale off your highest stat.

I'd rather not read another one of this ignorant post from someone who has no idea what an Elder Scrolls Sorcerer is. You should go do some research before you dismiss my class that is just a lore friendly as yours. Additionally, don't tell me what buffs I should be asking for if you've never played my class, dual scaling is just a terrible idea.

Oblivion Sorcerer

Morrowind Sorcerer

Have you even read those links you sent? I do agree that stamina sorcerers are something in the Elder Scroll's world, but as the game currently is set up, it is not at all like the Lore. First of all, stamina sorcerers in ESO are forced into medium armor, which they really didn't use that much on the other ES games. That affects how well sorcerers can shield them selves and absorb magika which is one of the class hugest features in the previous games. Also, because you are using medium armor your magika pool, which should be the largest in the game according to all Lore, will be shot... Because otherwise you will have no damage behind your abilities.

ESO can't conform perfectly to the other ES games because it is MMO. It needs a different sort of balancing and I am sorry... MMO wise, sorcerers are primarily magic casters. Just like Nightblades are assassins and thus the class to go for stamina builds, just templars are supposed to the best healers and DK the best tanks. I understand wanting stamina sorcerers to be more viable, but doing so at the expense of the class losing its magika orientation is idiotic at best. For a long time sorcerers have had the worst DPS in general and near to no utility and this patch is only making things worse, at least for Magika sorcerers.

You are absolutely correct. This is an MMO, and because it's an MMO every single class needs to be equally viable. This includes Stam Sorcs. Furthermore, why are we the only class that has to put up with this amount of stupidity? I don't ever see Magic Templars telling Stam Templars that they have no right to exist.

No... I am sorry... You are just wrong... The majority of the MMOs have each class very specialized. Viable only means it is playable, not that playing it will give you awesome results. I am not saying Stamina Sorcerers have no right to exist, I fully support you guys as long as buffing your side of things doesn't mean more nerfs to the Magika sorcerer builds. Unfortunately it seems Zenimax can't do that!

As for why you don't have to deal with this sort of comment on other classes threads, well maybe it is because their class doesn't already suck! Templar are still the best healers in the game, which fits the MMO Meta for the class. DKs are still the best Tanks and Nightblades are still the best Stamina DPS. Unfortunately Sorcerers are the Worst Magika DPS currently in the game instead of the best... That is why we don't need more nerfs so Stamina Sorcs can be better!

Also, I was arguing against your Lore argument that Stamina sorcerers exist in Elder Scrolls because you will never be able to get good results with the same sort of build we used in the other games while playing ESO. Gods know I tried. I started playing as a sorcerer with heavy armor and a two handed sword that focused most of the points in having a huge magika pool... Exactly like the other Elder Scrolls games... Guess how well that worked?

Actually a vast majority of MMOs don't have very specialized classes anymore. Once Blizzard realized people don't like to pigeonholed into a single specific roll because of the class they chose pretty much every company since has followed suit. In most MMOs today nearly every class has at least one viable dps spec.

No viable means the class is capable of performing well enough to be brought into endgame content. Go ask someone that has cleared Vet MoL if they would take a Stam Sorc with them over any other class including Magic Sorc. We have the worst DPS and bring no group utility. We are not currently a viable endgame trial class.

Depending on the content your running NBs are actually far better healers than Templars. Stam DKs are the best stam DPS class, and probably have the highest DPS out of all eight classes. Additionally, the Elder Scrolls lore supports Magic NBs far better than Stam NBs. None of that actually explains why we have to put up with so many ignorant people.

Attacking Stam Sorcs will get you no where. Instead why don't you focus on changes that will improve Magic Sorcs. I'll give you some ideas. Revamp Overload this skill is the reason your sustained DPS is the lowest Magic DPS in MoL. Fight this terrible Surge change. Get Dark Exchange to be actually usable. Get a complete class passive revamp; we have the worst for magic and stam.

And WTF are you talking about??? Overload is the only Ultimate in the sorcerer class that is still useful. Atronach is stupid and doesn't DPS nearly enough and Negate was nerfed to near nonexistence! Revamp overload, you are only suggesting that because you want overload to have a freaking stamina special morph!

Overload is a terrible ultimate, and the reason Magic Sorcs have such low DPS in long fights. I want nothing to do with Overload in it's current form, even if we were given a stamina morph. I hated the skill when I played on my Magic Sorc as well. So don't assume you know why I'm suggesting something. If you know anything about Magic Sorc DPS then you will know that using Overload in a fight that is about 3+ minutes long is a huge DPS loss over using Meteor. However, when using Overload on short duration fights Magic Sorcs have the highest DPS. This is one of the main reason people dismiss Magic Sorcs when you ask for DPS increases. Getting Overload exchanged for some sustained DPS is the best way to help this class, other than removing the pets.

Overload should be reworked to be an instant cast, single target, low cost ultimate. Once this happens the class can be balanced properly.

Yes, remove sorcerer's only ultimate that still have uses instead of removing dark exchange, a useless ability not even 1% of the sorcs ever slots in their bars. You clearly know what you are talking about.

To fix the sustained DPS issue for magika sorcs Dark Exchange should be reworked in a spam-able spell with a melee and a ranged morph to untie the class from always needing Force Pulse and Destro Staff. With such an ability available Zenimax could easily mess with the number till they got sorcer DPS up to par with the other magika DPSs without buffing the other classes as well and without causing too much disturbance in PvP.

It would also help with self healing as every activation of our spam-able ability would proc Blood Magic, healing the caster. Pets don't need to be removed, they need a few reworks, that is all.

As far as magika sorc goes, simply modify the Proc chance of Crystal blast and you got it, but that has repercussion upon pvp a LOT. That's why I think it should be look at from a diversification of the build perspecive.

Add a class AOE that we can use, help people get rid of Bound Armor by giving the magika bonus somewhere else and let us use some much needed versatility.

Maybe an Aoe with the same type of mechanic as Healing Spring but for Domage.Something to spam when needed that we can put Inside our offbar.

We have a class AoE that is actually considered pretty good, if you can target it >.>

What we don't have is a single target damage ability that we can spam instead of being forced to use force pulse. Every other class has a magika single target, cheap ability they can spam mover and over and that has no cast time.

They will never buff Crystal fragments. There is already an endless river of PvPer tears about the skill hitting too hard as it is, even though it is one of the slowest spells in the game and can be reflected...

Grao

potirondb16_ESO wrote: »

I don't know about you but sometime I feel like Dark Magic should give us more magika (power of the dark side), Daedric Summoning Should give us and group more sorcery, (summoning the force), and Storm Calling should give us more ressource regeneration (going back to the source)...

Like 8% more magika for haaving a Dark Magic ability slotted (would be either negate, dark conversion, or Crystal blast) Keep the 8% bonus to stamina with bound amor but make it so that it is just while slotted and give the skill a bonus upon activation. Do max health on the other morph and maybe gives minor protection for 15s. if activated.

Gives minor sorcery for activation a Daedric summoning skill, lot of viable option in that line.

More ressource regen from slotting a Storm Calling ability, same a lot of viable option.

That would restart theocrafting for sorcerer !

That feels like a full rework... ZoS has problems / won't remake a single skill, do you think they will restart the class?

Valrien wrote: »

Why not put the single-target spam on Bound Aegis as a "Bound Weapon"-type spell. Quick shot from a bound bow or a stab from a bound sword? The pet toggles already have active abilities, why not the armor as well?

To a certain extent that is a good idea, but it would pose a few complications. Currently Bound armor is a toggle and its benefits to resources heavily influences both stamina and magika DPS. Giving it an active (like the pets have) would be cool, but I fear Zos Nerfing the passive gain of resources very heavily to give this active.

I still think replacing dark exchange would be a better alternative, not only because it is currently a pretty useless spell, despite all the buffing, but also because of the passives in the dark magic tree.

olsborg

The streaknerf is what got me into changing class from sorc to nb, you cant escape zergtrains as sorc anymore when youre solo, all you can do is take their *** right in the face. You can try to escape, but you wont get far, ppl can sprint after you with major expedition and still catch up with you with 50% of their stam left, but you will be completely out of magicka.

Since then, sorc has taken nerf after nerf, whiners got their way.

Grao

olsborg wrote: »

The streaknerf is what got me into changing class from sorc to nb, you cant escape zergtrains as sorc anymore when youre solo, all you can do is take their *** right in the face. You can try to escape, but you wont get far, ppl can sprint after you with major expedition and still catch up with you with 50% of their stam left, but you will be completely out of magicka.

Since then, sorc has taken nerf after nerf, whiners got their way.

Yup... And the nerfs to Streak started really early in the game. Like 2nd or 3rd patch notes after release, I think.

tennant94

Sorcs ultimate options are poor now dawnbreakers out the window. Soul strike can be bashed, cleansed and cloaked. Meteor can be blocked. Storm Atro is good but lacks the burst needed to finish most opponents, negate will be good but has no burst damage. Overload is strong but it's so obvious and in your face you need practice if you die to it. Batswarm could be good combined with proxy and impulse. Finally war horn and barrier are more supportive ultimates. Sorcerers basic skills can be countered in many ways, opposed to wrecking blow which can only be blocked or dodged. C frags is strong but can be reflected, dodged and it's easy for good players to see it coming because your hands glow, albeit you can throw at an unexpected time. Curse can be purged. Fighting Templars is pretty much impossible now. They cleanse your curse block your meteor what are you supposed to do? One shot them with crystal frags? Detonate them? Well that's been nerfed single target so nope. Fighting dks, they reflect all your skills and now with the reduction in shield duration you get cc'ed, shield runs out, dragon leap to execute your finished. Nbs same thing cc'ed to dps it's game over. All I can think of is gaining a little more passive defence but then your weaking your shields, maybe to the point where it's better to not have shields but then what's the point in playing the sorcerer anyway. To use streak? The skill unmorphed known as bolt escape that punishes you for trying to escape.

cpuScientist

@Wrobel
Has anyone here ever played Magicka Templar? If you have you will know of a certain heal with a cast time... That NO-ONE ever uses. They beg for it to go away every patch. You know why, becuase a cast time on a heal that can be interrupted is just plain bad. Even if it can't be interrupted, this game is about burst. Also the morph that costs stamina is lol, you killed our shields, we will be getting CC'd every second why on earth would anyone use that. What a worthless skill.

So what pray tell would drive anyone to say hey lets give THAT to a Sorc. Yea they will LOVE THAT.

cpuScientist

tennant94 wrote: »

Sorcs ultimate options are poor now dawnbreakers out the window. Soul strike can be bashed, cleansed and cloaked. Meteor can be blocked. Storm Atro is good but lacks the burst needed to finish most opponents, negate will be good but has no burst damage. Overload is strong but it's so obvious and in your face you need practice if you die to it. Batswarm could be good combined with proxy and impulse. Finally war horn and barrier are more supportive ultimates. Sorcerers basic skills can be countered in many ways, opposed to wrecking blow which can only be blocked or dodged. C frags is strong but can be reflected, dodged and it's easy for good players to see it coming because your hands glow, albeit you can throw at an unexpected time. Curse can be purged. Fighting Templars is pretty much impossible now. They cleanse your curse block your meteor what are you supposed to do? One shot them with crystal frags? Detonate them? Well that's been nerfed single target so nope. Fighting dks, they reflect all your skills and now with the reduction in shield duration you get cc'ed, shield runs out, dragon leap to execute your finished. Nbs same thing cc'ed to dps it's game over. All I can think of is gaining a little more passive defence but then your weaking your shields, maybe to the point where it's better to not have shields but then what's the point in playing the sorcerer anyway. To use streak? The skill unmorphed known as bolt escape that punishes you for trying to escape.

Heyo listen to this consumer @Wrobel

Grao

cpuScientist wrote: »

tennant94 wrote: »

Sorcs ultimate options are poor now dawnbreakers out the window. Soul strike can be bashed, cleansed and cloaked. Meteor can be blocked. Storm Atro is good but lacks the burst needed to finish most opponents, negate will be good but has no burst damage. Overload is strong but it's so obvious and in your face you need practice if you die to it. Batswarm could be good combined with proxy and impulse. Finally war horn and barrier are more supportive ultimates. Sorcerers basic skills can be countered in many ways, opposed to wrecking blow which can only be blocked or dodged. C frags is strong but can be reflected, dodged and it's easy for good players to see it coming because your hands glow, albeit you can throw at an unexpected time. Curse can be purged. Fighting Templars is pretty much impossible now. They cleanse your curse block your meteor what are you supposed to do? One shot them with crystal frags? Detonate them? Well that's been nerfed single target so nope. Fighting dks, they reflect all your skills and now with the reduction in shield duration you get cc'ed, shield runs out, dragon leap to execute your finished. Nbs same thing cc'ed to dps it's game over. All I can think of is gaining a little more passive defence but then your weaking your shields, maybe to the point where it's better to not have shields but then what's the point in playing the sorcerer anyway. To use streak? The skill unmorphed known as bolt escape that punishes you for trying to escape.

Heyo listen to this consumer @Wrobel

He posted a whole explanation on Block cost changes etc just a little back... But not a word on the only feedback thread with more than 25 pages >.> Do you think he is listening? I don't.

cpuScientist

I need the developers to understand, that we are not QQing about our shields being nerfed. It's been a steady line of nerfs since the beginning. Just nerf after NERF! The shield was literally all that was left of the class it was the identity the one thing that made Sorcs different. And NOW you gut it and give it to everyone else. And in one fell swoop you also destroy our burst. The same burst that takes time and.can be purged. The burst that I abandoned because it only really worked on newer players, as templars knew to cleanse it, DK knew to reflect block and cc us. And NB cloaked.

So I will make my suggestions once again...

Crystal blast needs to be a stamina proc version like crystal frag.

Dark deal needs to be a magicka spam ability with a higher damage melee magick morph and ranged magick morph.

Bound armor the triple SLOT magicka booster that is just a horroble toggle version of a NB magicka flood. This instead needs to be our single targeted dot with a magicka and stamina morph. Just make it summon little floating daggers or orbs or who cares around an enemy doing damage every second. And move the magicka and stamina gains to a passive.

Counter bound armamanets make it give 12% more health minor resistances and morphs either take less dage from AOE or give a group buff of some sort.

Pets ahhhhhhhhhhh PETS!!! I am a summoner in every ESO game. Freaking love it, don't mind being a zookeeper once the zoo is useful. Now if you want to keep them as toggles fine double their abilities power or leg them scale off of spell power.

MORE PREFERABLY HOWEVER make them stay summoned until dead without being toggled, and change the passive.that increases health to increase magicka instead (if you don't want to give us that passive to just increase it outright) this way can slot my AOE pet and have him in my front bar and my healer on my back bar and please give them more health and resistances ( we are not able to keep shields on the. Indefinitely anymore.)

Change the twilight tormentor USELESS ability to a version of inferno that shoots out a blast every 2 seconds just like the AOE pet, and the last hit either stuns or it roots on each hit.

Finally our atro, make the increased duration always be there, and give one morph the AOE lightning component and the other morph be an air atro that also does its AOE tornado move.

Implement these changes and you are good to go ZOS. We will not be OP mind you I did not even ask for shield increase. We will be dropping atros and having ROOM for pets, it would be an interesting way to play for everyone. And instead of having a very few good viable skills we would have a great many that we could then theorycraft and for.

Grao

Valrien wrote: »

Why not put the single-target spam on Bound Aegis as a "Bound Weapon"-type spell. Quick shot from a bound bow or a stab from a bound sword? The pet toggles already have active abilities, why not the armor as well?

I see you liked my Signature XD I liked how you worded yours, so changing mine to match

Valrien

Grao wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

Why not put the single-target spam on Bound Aegis as a "Bound Weapon"-type spell. Quick shot from a bound bow or a stab from a bound sword? The pet toggles already have active abilities, why not the armor as well?

I see you liked my Signature XD I liked how you worded yours, so changing mine to match

Lol, I did get some inspiration from it

potirondb16_ESO

Grao wrote: »

potirondb16_ESO wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

kmatt wrote: »

STAM MORPH OF OVERLOAD,

Failing that change how Ultimats work so if its scaling off Stam it does physical damage and if its scaling off magic do magic damage for all class skills, this means that the champion point system works for your build.

Stam sorc needs some love still although hurricane is some nice improvement to its damage it has lost its utility of movement speed which was a big reason to use.

Again ill ask for the "Stone Shard" morph that is the Stam version of the morph we already have that adds a little AoE.

Last thing to say, make the passives useful as a stam sorc half of them are useless and no point taking & now with fighters guild changes we are punished for using our own class skills over fighters guild skills. Something like Major mending when dadric summoning skill is slotted, or at least change the pet passives to be useful to some extent without pets.

Stam Sorc is actually in a far better place than Mag. Sorc. now.

You guys deserve the boost FINALLY, and if other tweaks would further improve your lot - then by all means ask for them.

I would appreciate it if you could also comment on the Mag. Sorcs. nerfs however, as this is the overall Sorc. thread, and Stam. Sorcs. have the benefit of their own exclusive thread to feedback on.

id rather not have to 'donate' skills to a niche build that contridicts the purpose of a sorcerer, who is a master of magic. Mag sorc should be better, in most respects, to stam sorc. you guys want a buff? you should be calling for duel scaling, like the skills scale off your highest stat.

I'd rather not read another one of this ignorant post from someone who has no idea what an Elder Scrolls Sorcerer is. You should go do some research before you dismiss my class that is just a lore friendly as yours. Additionally, don't tell me what buffs I should be asking for if you've never played my class, dual scaling is just a terrible idea.

Oblivion Sorcerer

Morrowind Sorcerer

Have you even read those links you sent? I do agree that stamina sorcerers are something in the Elder Scroll's world, but as the game currently is set up, it is not at all like the Lore. First of all, stamina sorcerers in ESO are forced into medium armor, which they really didn't use that much on the other ES games. That affects how well sorcerers can shield them selves and absorb magika which is one of the class hugest features in the previous games. Also, because you are using medium armor your magika pool, which should be the largest in the game according to all Lore, will be shot... Because otherwise you will have no damage behind your abilities.

ESO can't conform perfectly to the other ES games because it is MMO. It needs a different sort of balancing and I am sorry... MMO wise, sorcerers are primarily magic casters. Just like Nightblades are assassins and thus the class to go for stamina builds, just templars are supposed to the best healers and DK the best tanks. I understand wanting stamina sorcerers to be more viable, but doing so at the expense of the class losing its magika orientation is idiotic at best. For a long time sorcerers have had the worst DPS in general and near to no utility and this patch is only making things worse, at least for Magika sorcerers.

You are absolutely correct. This is an MMO, and because it's an MMO every single class needs to be equally viable. This includes Stam Sorcs. Furthermore, why are we the only class that has to put up with this amount of stupidity? I don't ever see Magic Templars telling Stam Templars that they have no right to exist.

No... I am sorry... You are just wrong... The majority of the MMOs have each class very specialized. Viable only means it is playable, not that playing it will give you awesome results. I am not saying Stamina Sorcerers have no right to exist, I fully support you guys as long as buffing your side of things doesn't mean more nerfs to the Magika sorcerer builds. Unfortunately it seems Zenimax can't do that!

As for why you don't have to deal with this sort of comment on other classes threads, well maybe it is because their class doesn't already suck! Templar are still the best healers in the game, which fits the MMO Meta for the class. DKs are still the best Tanks and Nightblades are still the best Stamina DPS. Unfortunately Sorcerers are the Worst Magika DPS currently in the game instead of the best... That is why we don't need more nerfs so Stamina Sorcs can be better!

Also, I was arguing against your Lore argument that Stamina sorcerers exist in Elder Scrolls because you will never be able to get good results with the same sort of build we used in the other games while playing ESO. Gods know I tried. I started playing as a sorcerer with heavy armor and a two handed sword that focused most of the points in having a huge magika pool... Exactly like the other Elder Scrolls games... Guess how well that worked?

Actually a vast majority of MMOs don't have very specialized classes anymore. Once Blizzard realized people don't like to pigeonholed into a single specific roll because of the class they chose pretty much every company since has followed suit. In most MMOs today nearly every class has at least one viable dps spec.

No viable means the class is capable of performing well enough to be brought into endgame content. Go ask someone that has cleared Vet MoL if they would take a Stam Sorc with them over any other class including Magic Sorc. We have the worst DPS and bring no group utility. We are not currently a viable endgame trial class.

Depending on the content your running NBs are actually far better healers than Templars. Stam DKs are the best stam DPS class, and probably have the highest DPS out of all eight classes. Additionally, the Elder Scrolls lore supports Magic NBs far better than Stam NBs. None of that actually explains why we have to put up with so many ignorant people.

Attacking Stam Sorcs will get you no where. Instead why don't you focus on changes that will improve Magic Sorcs. I'll give you some ideas. Revamp Overload this skill is the reason your sustained DPS is the lowest Magic DPS in MoL. Fight this terrible Surge change. Get Dark Exchange to be actually usable. Get a complete class passive revamp; we have the worst for magic and stam.

And WTF are you talking about??? Overload is the only Ultimate in the sorcerer class that is still useful. Atronach is stupid and doesn't DPS nearly enough and Negate was nerfed to near nonexistence! Revamp overload, you are only suggesting that because you want overload to have a freaking stamina special morph!

Overload is a terrible ultimate, and the reason Magic Sorcs have such low DPS in long fights. I want nothing to do with Overload in it's current form, even if we were given a stamina morph. I hated the skill when I played on my Magic Sorc as well. So don't assume you know why I'm suggesting something. If you know anything about Magic Sorc DPS then you will know that using Overload in a fight that is about 3+ minutes long is a huge DPS loss over using Meteor. However, when using Overload on short duration fights Magic Sorcs have the highest DPS. This is one of the main reason people dismiss Magic Sorcs when you ask for DPS increases. Getting Overload exchanged for some sustained DPS is the best way to help this class, other than removing the pets.

Overload should be reworked to be an instant cast, single target, low cost ultimate. Once this happens the class can be balanced properly.

Yes, remove sorcerer's only ultimate that still have uses instead of removing dark exchange, a useless ability not even 1% of the sorcs ever slots in their bars. You clearly know what you are talking about.

To fix the sustained DPS issue for magika sorcs Dark Exchange should be reworked in a spam-able spell with a melee and a ranged morph to untie the class from always needing Force Pulse and Destro Staff. With such an ability available Zenimax could easily mess with the number till they got sorcer DPS up to par with the other magika DPSs without buffing the other classes as well and without causing too much disturbance in PvP.

It would also help with self healing as every activation of our spam-able ability would proc Blood Magic, healing the caster. Pets don't need to be removed, they need a few reworks, that is all.

As far as magika sorc goes, simply modify the Proc chance of Crystal blast and you got it, but that has repercussion upon pvp a LOT. That's why I think it should be look at from a diversification of the build perspecive.

Add a class AOE that we can use, help people get rid of Bound Armor by giving the magika bonus somewhere else and let us use some much needed versatility.

Maybe an Aoe with the same type of mechanic as Healing Spring but for Domage.Something to spam when needed that we can put Inside our offbar.

We have a class AoE that is actually considered pretty good, if you can target it >.>

What we don't have is a single target damage ability that we can spam instead of being forced to use force pulse. Every other class has a magika single target, cheap ability they can spam mover and over and that has no cast time.

They will never buff Crystal fragments. There is already an endless river of PvPer tears about the skill hitting too hard as it is, even though it is one of the slowest spells in the game and can be reflected...

Not actually quite an aoe, more like a dot, if you are using the aoe version of it, I agree it can work but then you have to refresh it way too many time during boss fight since we need to fight with it to keep a decent dps, and about the other one, it's actually more or less a passive move around thing.

Not a class change, I got some post where I was really having a bunch of modification, but this one is pretty simple. Adjusting passive to allow magika sorcerer to get max magika elsewhere then with bound armor and let so help us get more dps option when we fight.

Grao

Alright, this took a little while to type down, but here it goes. Sorcerers as I think they should / could be.

Dark Magic

Negate Magic: [As in Live]

• Suppression Field: [As in the PTS] Create a globe of magic suppression, dispelling enemy placed effects instantly.
  Enemy players will be silenced rather than stunned.
  Heals you and your allies standing within the area of effect by X.
• Absorption Field: [As in the PTS] Create a globe of magic suppression, dispelling enemy placed effects instantly.
  Enemy players will be silenced rather than stunned.
  Deals X Magic Damage to enemies standing within the area of effect.

Dark Exchange: Drains an enemy's strength causing X Magic Damage and Healing the caster by Y% of the Damage Caused. (Ranged, instant cast, 3000 – 3500 Magicka cost)

• Dark Slash: [Replacing Dark Deal] Drains an enemy's strength causing X Magic Damage and Healing the caster by Y% of the Damage Caused.
  Causes Z additional Magic Damage (Melee, instant cast, 3000 – 3500 Magicka cost)
• Dark Conversion: Drains an enemy's strength causing X Magic Damage and Healing the caster by Y% of the Damage Caused.
  Additionally regains Z% of the Damage caused as Magicka (Increased Range, instant cast, 3000 – 3500 Magicka cost)

Argument: This skill can be balanced to increase Sorcerer Magicka DPS just enough to be in the same level as the other Magicka Builds and Classes. It would replace Force Pulse in our rotation and its numbers could played with to fix the class's sustain issues while also creating diversity by stimulating the creation of a Melee DPS Magicka Sorcerer. At the same time it preserves some of the original essence of Dark Exchange.

Encase:[As in Live]

• Shattering Prison: [As in Live]
• Restraining Prison: [As in Live]

Rune Prison: [As in Live]

• Rune Cage: [As in Live]
• Defensive Rune: [As in Live]

Crystal Shard: [As in Live]

• Crystal Blade: [Replacing Crystal Blast] Conjure a dark crystal blade and toss it at an enemy, dealing X Physical Damage and stunning them for 2 seconds.
  Casting any other Stamina ability has a 35% chance of causing your next Crystal Blade to be instant, cause the target to bleed for Y seconds, and cost 50% less Stamina.
• Crystal Fragments: [As in Live]

Daedric Curse: [Swap with Daedric Mines – As in Live]

• Daedric Prey: [As in Live]
• Velocious Curse: Curses an enemy with a destructive rune dealing X Magic Damage every second and Y Magic Damage to all other nearby enemies after 3.5 seconds.
  Has shorter duration and is converted into a true DoT.

Argument: This ability should be swapped with Daedric Mines for a few reasons, the first being both skills are daedric in nature, but Daedric Curse doesn't summon anything and is not affected in anyway by the passives in the Daedric Summoning Tree. Meanwhile curses are considered Dark Magic and Daedric Mines actually does summon something, not to mention certain passives in Summoning Tree could be tinkered to affect that skill positively.

Unholy Knowledge: [As in Live]

Blood Magic: [As in Live ]

Persistence: [As in Live]

Exploitation: [As in Live]

Daedric Summoning

Argument: Allow all Magicka Scaling Pets to gain extra damage from Spell Power and Stamina Pets to gain extra damage from Weapon Power as well. That or simply increase their damage slightly.

Summon Storm Atronach: [As in Live]

• Greater Storm Atronach: Summon a storm atronach at the target location. The atronach's arrival deals X Shock Damage and stuns nearby enemies for 3 seconds. The atronach cannot move but attacks the nearest enemy.
  An ally can activate Lightning Barrier, granting a energy shield to all allies in range and the atronach absorbing Y damage for 8 seconds. Atronach has increased duration, health and damage.
  Upon Synergy activation, grants all allies in range a energy shield (similar to barrier).
• Summon Empowering Atronach: Summon a storm atronach at the target location. The atronach's arrival deals X Shock Damage and stuns nearby enemies for 3 seconds. The atronach cannot move but attacks the nearest enemy.
  An ally can activate Charged Lightning, giving both the ally, the Atronach's caster and the atronach Major Berserk, increasing their damage by 25% for 8 seconds.
  Caster of the Atronach is also granted Major Berserk upon the activation of the Atronach's Synergy. Additionally, the Atronach has a powerful area effect attack.

Argument: One of the things Sorcerers currently lack is useful utility for a raid or dungeon group. Granting Minor Prophecy is simply not enough and I believe Zenimax recognizes such as true as they are buffing Negate. This changes would grant the Atronach more power and interesting utility, the first morph would sacrifice damage to shield the raid and the second morph would empower not only the ally who activated the synergy, but also the sorcerer, helping the sorcerer DPS.

Unstable Familiar: [As in the PTS]*

• Summon Unstable Clannfear: Command the powers of Oblivion to send a clannfear to fight at your side. The clannfear's attacks deal X Physical Damage plus an additional 15%.
  Once summoned you can activate the clannfear's special ability, tail swiping nearby enemies and taunting the primary target for Y seconds.
  The clannfear remains until killed or unsummoned. (Stamina Based)
• Summon Volatile Familiar: [As in PTS]*

Bound Armor: Protect yourself with the power of Oblivion, creating a suit of Daedric mail that grants Minor Resolve and Minor Ward, increasing your Armor and Spell Resistance by X.

• Bound Armaments: Protect yourself with the power of Oblivion, creating a suit of Daedric mail that grants Minor Resolve and Minor Ward, increasing your Armor and Spell Resistance by X.
  The armor also increases your Max Stamina by 5%.
  Once summoned you can activate the armament's special ability, granting Minor Berserk, increasing all damage done by 8% for 5 seconds.
• Bound Aegis: Protect yourself with the power of Oblivion, creating a suit of Daedric mail that grants Minor Resolve and Minor Ward, increasing your Armor and Spell Resistance by X.
  The armor also increases your Max Health by 5%.
  Once summoned you can activate the armor's special ability, healing you for 35% of your Maximum Health

Argument: Again, in an effort to diversify builds this skills would support both Stamina and Tanking sorcerers greatly. The self heal removed from Clannfear coupled with the 5% Health increase would make this a useful toggle for Tanks while Minor Berserk would make Bound Armaments tempting not just for Stamina Sorcerers but also for Magicka Sorcerers. The 5% Stamina increase would be very useful for Stam DPS, but would also be tempting for tanks needing additional resources for blocking, etc.

Summon Winged Twilight: [As in PTS]*

• Summon Twilight Tormentor: [As in PTS]*
• Summon Twilight Matriarch: [As in PTS]*

Daedric Mines: [As in Live]

• Daedric Tomb: [As in Live]
• Daedric Minefield: [As in Live]

Conjured Ward: Conjures globes of Daedric energy for protection granting you a damage shield that absorbs X damage for 6 seconds and healing your pets for Y.

• Hardened Ward: Conjures globes of Daedric energy for protection granting you a damage shield that absorbs X damage for 6 seconds and healing your pets for Y.
  While the ward is active, your summoned creatures are immune to damage.
  Your damage shield absorbs 30% more damage.
• Empowered Ward: Conjures globes of Daedric energy for protection granting you a damage shield that absorbs X damage for 6 seconds and healing your pets for Y.
  While the ward is active, your summoned creatures are immune to damage.
  This skill also grants Minor Intellect to you and nearby allies, increasing your Magicka Recovery by 10% for 20 seconds and has reduced cost.

Argument: With the changes proposed above and the considerable nerf to all shields in the game this skill needs a few changes to remain viable, not to mention pets need better protection, specially as Sorcerers will no longer be able to maintain their Wards up 100% of the time. The idea here is to use your ward when your pet is going low on health or when you know it and your self are about to get hit with a massive amount of damage. The choice for the sorcerer would then be between having a larger shield or having their shield cost less and provide some minor utility for their allies.

Rebate: When one of your summoned creatures or mines is killed or triggered, you are restored X Magicka.

Power Stone: [As in Live]

Daedric Protection: [As in Live]

Expert Summoner: Grants you 4/8% more maximum magicka whenever you have a Daedric Summoning pet active.

Argument: Not only would this increase sorcerer DPS by increasing the Magicka pool, it would also increase the pet's DPS and thus make them more attractive. This would also help Tank builds that utilize the Clannfear as part of their build.

Storm Calling

Overload: Charge your fists with the power of the storm. Light attacks become lightning bolts, dealing X Shock Damage and 5% additional damage.
Attacks deplete Ultimate until you run out or the ability is toggled off.

• Power Overload: Charge your fists with the power of the storm. Light attacks become lightning bolts, dealing X Shock Damage and 10% additional damage.
  Attacks deplete Ultimate until you run out or the ability is toggled off.
• Energy Overload: Charge your fists with the power of the storm. Light attacks become lightning bolts, dealing X Shock Damage and 5% additional damage.
  Attacks deplete Ultimate until you run out or the ability is toggled off and restore X Magicka and / or Stamina.

Argument: First of all, this ultimate is, in my opinion, the best sorcerer ultimate, not only because its potential burst damage but also because it unlocks a third bar. For a class with quite a few toggles, that is quite a useful feature.
That is not to say it doesn't need a few small changes. Nerfs to its damage have made prolonged use of this ultimate less advantageous, so it could use a slight increase in its power. More importantly though, this is a ultimate plagued by bugs, the most annoying one being getting 'stuck' in heavy attack mode. As its heavy attack isn't powerful enough to be used, I propose simply disabling it as it is not truly a feature for the ultimate, but a problem. Power overload should be about making the ultimate more powerful, not about range and energy overload should return the resource that is actually useful to the sorcerer using the ability or simply return both resources.

Mage's Fury: [As in Live]

• Mage's Wrath: [As in Live]*
• Endless Fury: Call down lightning to strike an enemy for X Shock Damage.
  If target enemy's health falls below 20% within 4 seconds, an explosion deals an additional Y Shock Damage to the target and Z Shock Damage to other enemies nearby.
  Applies a lighting charge that increases the damage of the next cast of Endless Fury by 10% stacking up to 3 times.

Argument: I think no one will argue that Endless Fury feels lackluster when compared to Mage's Wrath. The use of the skill doesn't feel endless at all as its special trait only activates when you kill your enemy and at least in PvE that usually mean the fight is over and you don't need the very small amount of Magicka it returns. This change would encourage spamming this ability and would be an interesting boost for extra damage against enemies that won't die to just one or two explosions. I also believe Mage's Wrath AoE 'Explosion' could use buffs.

Lightning Form: [As in Live]

• Hurricane: [Replacing Thundering Presence] Manifest yourself as lightning to gain Major Resolve and Major Ward, increasing Armor and Spell Resistance by X for 20 seconds.
  While active, nearby enemies will take Y Physical Damage each second. The size and damage of the periodic effect increases the longer it is active, going up to 225% more damage and up to 9 meters in size.
  Grants the Minor Expedition buff at all times while it is active.
• Boundless Storm: [As in Live]*

Argument: The new Stamina morph for this ability seems great, but it does make the Magicka morph feeling very lackluster. Its cost is higher, its damage is weaker and the duration of its speed buff is considerably shorter, even if the buff is more powerful. Yes, the duration is longer which justify the higher cost, but the damage of the Magicka morph for this ability could use some small buff and its range could see a small increase.

Lightning Splash: [As in Live]

• Liquid Lightning: [As in Live]*
• Lightning Flood: [As in Live]

Argument: This is a good skill, but Liquid Lightning can be tricky to target. I would gladly see that morph lose its AoE aspect and become a more traditional, single target, powerful DoT. It is not a necessary change though.

Surge: [As in the PTS]*

• Power Surge: [As in the PTS]*
• Critical Surge: [As in the PTS]*

Argument: I heavily dislike some of the changes this skill suffered this last patch, but I believe Zenimax is still working the numbers. Besides, I believe other changes proposed above would take care of the sustain issues the changes to Surge's internal cooldown and heals would cause.

Bolt Escape: [As in Live]*

• Streak: [As in Live]*
• Ball of lightning: [As in Live]*

Argument: I will admit this is not a skill a use a lot as my enjoyment in PvP tends to fizzle out after fighting the considerable lag of Cyrodill for about an hour. I do believe the stacking cost increase intended to punish repetitive uses of the skill should be balanced out by a damage increase for each repetitive use. The idea is to keep sorcerers from spamming the ability to run away when they are in trouble, but if the sorcerer is using this ability aggressively, that should be rewarded.

Capacitor: [As in Live]

Energized: [As in the PTS]*

Argument: This is a good passive and the change to it adding Physical Damage is a step on the right direction. I'd love to see that damage buff extended to Magic Damage as well or to all Elemental Damage instead of just Shock Damage. Again, with the changes proposed above this may not be needed.

Implosion: [As in the PTS]

Expert Mage: [As in Live]

Derra

Grao wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

kmatt wrote: »

STAM MORPH OF OVERLOAD,

Failing that change how Ultimats work so if its scaling off Stam it does physical damage and if its scaling off magic do magic damage for all class skills, this means that the champion point system works for your build.

Stam sorc needs some love still although hurricane is some nice improvement to its damage it has lost its utility of movement speed which was a big reason to use.

Again ill ask for the "Stone Shard" morph that is the Stam version of the morph we already have that adds a little AoE.

Last thing to say, make the passives useful as a stam sorc half of them are useless and no point taking & now with fighters guild changes we are punished for using our own class skills over fighters guild skills. Something like Major mending when dadric summoning skill is slotted, or at least change the pet passives to be useful to some extent without pets.

Stam Sorc is actually in a far better place than Mag. Sorc. now.

You guys deserve the boost FINALLY, and if other tweaks would further improve your lot - then by all means ask for them.

I would appreciate it if you could also comment on the Mag. Sorcs. nerfs however, as this is the overall Sorc. thread, and Stam. Sorcs. have the benefit of their own exclusive thread to feedback on.

id rather not have to 'donate' skills to a niche build that contridicts the purpose of a sorcerer, who is a master of magic. Mag sorc should be better, in most respects, to stam sorc. you guys want a buff? you should be calling for duel scaling, like the skills scale off your highest stat.

I'd rather not read another one of this ignorant post from someone who has no idea what an Elder Scrolls Sorcerer is. You should go do some research before you dismiss my class that is just a lore friendly as yours. Additionally, don't tell me what buffs I should be asking for if you've never played my class, dual scaling is just a terrible idea.

Oblivion Sorcerer

Morrowind Sorcerer

Have you even read those links you sent? I do agree that stamina sorcerers are something in the Elder Scroll's world, but as the game currently is set up, it is not at all like the Lore. First of all, stamina sorcerers in ESO are forced into medium armor, which they really didn't use that much on the other ES games. That affects how well sorcerers can shield them selves and absorb magika which is one of the class hugest features in the previous games. Also, because you are using medium armor your magika pool, which should be the largest in the game according to all Lore, will be shot... Because otherwise you will have no damage behind your abilities.

ESO can't conform perfectly to the other ES games because it is MMO. It needs a different sort of balancing and I am sorry... MMO wise, sorcerers are primarily magic casters. Just like Nightblades are assassins and thus the class to go for stamina builds, just templars are supposed to the best healers and DK the best tanks. I understand wanting stamina sorcerers to be more viable, but doing so at the expense of the class losing its magika orientation is idiotic at best. For a long time sorcerers have had the worst DPS in general and near to no utility and this patch is only making things worse, at least for Magika sorcerers.

You are absolutely correct. This is an MMO, and because it's an MMO every single class needs to be equally viable. This includes Stam Sorcs. Furthermore, why are we the only class that has to put up with this amount of stupidity? I don't ever see Magic Templars telling Stam Templars that they have no right to exist.

No... I am sorry... You are just wrong... The majority of the MMOs have each class very specialized. Viable only means it is playable, not that playing it will give you awesome results. I am not saying Stamina Sorcerers have no right to exist, I fully support you guys as long as buffing your side of things doesn't mean more nerfs to the Magika sorcerer builds. Unfortunately it seems Zenimax can't do that!

As for why you don't have to deal with this sort of comment on other classes threads, well maybe it is because their class doesn't already suck! Templar are still the best healers in the game, which fits the MMO Meta for the class. DKs are still the best Tanks and Nightblades are still the best Stamina DPS. Unfortunately Sorcerers are the Worst Magika DPS currently in the game instead of the best... That is why we don't need more nerfs so Stamina Sorcs can be better!

Also, I was arguing against your Lore argument that Stamina sorcerers exist in Elder Scrolls because you will never be able to get good results with the same sort of build we used in the other games while playing ESO. Gods know I tried. I started playing as a sorcerer with heavy armor and a two handed sword that focused most of the points in having a huge magika pool... Exactly like the other Elder Scrolls games... Guess how well that worked?

Actually a vast majority of MMOs don't have very specialized classes anymore. Once Blizzard realized people don't like to pigeonholed into a single specific roll because of the class they chose pretty much every company since has followed suit. In most MMOs today nearly every class has at least one viable dps spec.

No viable means the class is capable of performing well enough to be brought into endgame content. Go ask someone that has cleared Vet MoL if they would take a Stam Sorc with them over any other class including Magic Sorc. We have the worst DPS and bring no group utility. We are not currently a viable endgame trial class.

Depending on the content your running NBs are actually far better healers than Templars. Stam DKs are the best stam DPS class, and probably have the highest DPS out of all eight classes. Additionally, the Elder Scrolls lore supports Magic NBs far better than Stam NBs. None of that actually explains why we have to put up with so many ignorant people.

Attacking Stam Sorcs will get you no where. Instead why don't you focus on changes that will improve Magic Sorcs. I'll give you some ideas. Revamp Overload this skill is the reason your sustained DPS is the lowest Magic DPS in MoL. Fight this terrible Surge change. Get Dark Exchange to be actually usable. Get a complete class passive revamp; we have the worst for magic and stam.

And WTF are you talking about??? Overload is the only Ultimate in the sorcerer class that is still useful. Atronach is stupid and doesn't DPS nearly enough and Negate was nerfed to near nonexistence! Revamp overload, you are only suggesting that because you want overload to have a freaking stamina special morph!

Overload is a terrible ultimate, and the reason Magic Sorcs have such low DPS in long fights. I want nothing to do with Overload in it's current form, even if we were given a stamina morph. I hated the skill when I played on my Magic Sorc as well. So don't assume you know why I'm suggesting something. If you know anything about Magic Sorc DPS then you will know that using Overload in a fight that is about 3+ minutes long is a huge DPS loss over using Meteor. However, when using Overload on short duration fights Magic Sorcs have the highest DPS. This is one of the main reason people dismiss Magic Sorcs when you ask for DPS increases. Getting Overload exchanged for some sustained DPS is the best way to help this class, other than removing the pets.

Overload should be reworked to be an instant cast, single target, low cost ultimate. Once this happens the class can be balanced properly.

Yes, remove sorcerer's only ultimate that still have uses instead of removing dark exchange, a useless ability not even 1% of the sorcs ever slots in their bars. You clearly know what you are talking about.

To fix the sustained DPS issue for magika sorcs Dark Exchange should be reworked in a spam-able spell with a melee and a ranged morph to untie the class from always needing Force Pulse and Destro Staff. With such an ability available Zenimax could easily mess with the number till they got sorcer DPS up to par with the other magika DPSs without buffing the other classes as well and without causing too much disturbance in PvP.

It would also help with self healing as every activation of our spam-able ability would proc Blood Magic, healing the caster. Pets don't need to be removed, they need a few reworks, that is all.

I think he´s right though.

Yes Overload is the only currently vaible class ultimate. However it´s also the root of many of the classes DPS problems in pve. They simply can´t push the classes "normal" DPS to a really competetive level while leaving the option of a 800 ultimate dump overload into meteor normal rotation in place.
That would simply be too good.
Also "good" overload dps are too easy to achieve on sorcerers. There is no rotation or anything involved. Keep two spells active and spam left mouse. Done.

It´s one of the things holding sorcs back.

All in all sorcs require work on so many ends. The whole concept of having a class without a spam ability has failed imo (that needs reworking). Pets need major rebalancing to be competetive in any form. Overload needs rebalancing.

Attronarch, Twilight, Familiar, Bound Armor, Dark Exchange, Encase, Overload and Mages Wrath are the sorc active spells needing attention/balacing or complete overhauls imo. 8 out of 18 spells the class offers.
The main problem is they can´t be worked on one by one. The class isn´t functional as a whole. Basically the Pet tree is totally seperated from everything else bc it does not even scale in the same way as normal abilities.
But reworking/balancing 8 sorc abilities at once to make the class feel somewhat complete and well rounded at this point in development is most likelynot going to happen.

And that´s why i don´t have hope for the class anymore (also because the majority of these issue have been talked about since launch).

Grao

Derra wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

kmatt wrote: »

STAM MORPH OF OVERLOAD,

Failing that change how Ultimats work so if its scaling off Stam it does physical damage and if its scaling off magic do magic damage for all class skills, this means that the champion point system works for your build.

Stam sorc needs some love still although hurricane is some nice improvement to its damage it has lost its utility of movement speed which was a big reason to use.

Again ill ask for the "Stone Shard" morph that is the Stam version of the morph we already have that adds a little AoE.

Last thing to say, make the passives useful as a stam sorc half of them are useless and no point taking & now with fighters guild changes we are punished for using our own class skills over fighters guild skills. Something like Major mending when dadric summoning skill is slotted, or at least change the pet passives to be useful to some extent without pets.

Stam Sorc is actually in a far better place than Mag. Sorc. now.

You guys deserve the boost FINALLY, and if other tweaks would further improve your lot - then by all means ask for them.

I would appreciate it if you could also comment on the Mag. Sorcs. nerfs however, as this is the overall Sorc. thread, and Stam. Sorcs. have the benefit of their own exclusive thread to feedback on.

id rather not have to 'donate' skills to a niche build that contridicts the purpose of a sorcerer, who is a master of magic. Mag sorc should be better, in most respects, to stam sorc. you guys want a buff? you should be calling for duel scaling, like the skills scale off your highest stat.

I'd rather not read another one of this ignorant post from someone who has no idea what an Elder Scrolls Sorcerer is. You should go do some research before you dismiss my class that is just a lore friendly as yours. Additionally, don't tell me what buffs I should be asking for if you've never played my class, dual scaling is just a terrible idea.

Oblivion Sorcerer

Morrowind Sorcerer

Have you even read those links you sent? I do agree that stamina sorcerers are something in the Elder Scroll's world, but as the game currently is set up, it is not at all like the Lore. First of all, stamina sorcerers in ESO are forced into medium armor, which they really didn't use that much on the other ES games. That affects how well sorcerers can shield them selves and absorb magika which is one of the class hugest features in the previous games. Also, because you are using medium armor your magika pool, which should be the largest in the game according to all Lore, will be shot... Because otherwise you will have no damage behind your abilities.

ESO can't conform perfectly to the other ES games because it is MMO. It needs a different sort of balancing and I am sorry... MMO wise, sorcerers are primarily magic casters. Just like Nightblades are assassins and thus the class to go for stamina builds, just templars are supposed to the best healers and DK the best tanks. I understand wanting stamina sorcerers to be more viable, but doing so at the expense of the class losing its magika orientation is idiotic at best. For a long time sorcerers have had the worst DPS in general and near to no utility and this patch is only making things worse, at least for Magika sorcerers.

You are absolutely correct. This is an MMO, and because it's an MMO every single class needs to be equally viable. This includes Stam Sorcs. Furthermore, why are we the only class that has to put up with this amount of stupidity? I don't ever see Magic Templars telling Stam Templars that they have no right to exist.

No... I am sorry... You are just wrong... The majority of the MMOs have each class very specialized. Viable only means it is playable, not that playing it will give you awesome results. I am not saying Stamina Sorcerers have no right to exist, I fully support you guys as long as buffing your side of things doesn't mean more nerfs to the Magika sorcerer builds. Unfortunately it seems Zenimax can't do that!

As for why you don't have to deal with this sort of comment on other classes threads, well maybe it is because their class doesn't already suck! Templar are still the best healers in the game, which fits the MMO Meta for the class. DKs are still the best Tanks and Nightblades are still the best Stamina DPS. Unfortunately Sorcerers are the Worst Magika DPS currently in the game instead of the best... That is why we don't need more nerfs so Stamina Sorcs can be better!

Also, I was arguing against your Lore argument that Stamina sorcerers exist in Elder Scrolls because you will never be able to get good results with the same sort of build we used in the other games while playing ESO. Gods know I tried. I started playing as a sorcerer with heavy armor and a two handed sword that focused most of the points in having a huge magika pool... Exactly like the other Elder Scrolls games... Guess how well that worked?

Actually a vast majority of MMOs don't have very specialized classes anymore. Once Blizzard realized people don't like to pigeonholed into a single specific roll because of the class they chose pretty much every company since has followed suit. In most MMOs today nearly every class has at least one viable dps spec.

No viable means the class is capable of performing well enough to be brought into endgame content. Go ask someone that has cleared Vet MoL if they would take a Stam Sorc with them over any other class including Magic Sorc. We have the worst DPS and bring no group utility. We are not currently a viable endgame trial class.

Depending on the content your running NBs are actually far better healers than Templars. Stam DKs are the best stam DPS class, and probably have the highest DPS out of all eight classes. Additionally, the Elder Scrolls lore supports Magic NBs far better than Stam NBs. None of that actually explains why we have to put up with so many ignorant people.

Attacking Stam Sorcs will get you no where. Instead why don't you focus on changes that will improve Magic Sorcs. I'll give you some ideas. Revamp Overload this skill is the reason your sustained DPS is the lowest Magic DPS in MoL. Fight this terrible Surge change. Get Dark Exchange to be actually usable. Get a complete class passive revamp; we have the worst for magic and stam.

And WTF are you talking about??? Overload is the only Ultimate in the sorcerer class that is still useful. Atronach is stupid and doesn't DPS nearly enough and Negate was nerfed to near nonexistence! Revamp overload, you are only suggesting that because you want overload to have a freaking stamina special morph!

Overload is a terrible ultimate, and the reason Magic Sorcs have such low DPS in long fights. I want nothing to do with Overload in it's current form, even if we were given a stamina morph. I hated the skill when I played on my Magic Sorc as well. So don't assume you know why I'm suggesting something. If you know anything about Magic Sorc DPS then you will know that using Overload in a fight that is about 3+ minutes long is a huge DPS loss over using Meteor. However, when using Overload on short duration fights Magic Sorcs have the highest DPS. This is one of the main reason people dismiss Magic Sorcs when you ask for DPS increases. Getting Overload exchanged for some sustained DPS is the best way to help this class, other than removing the pets.

Overload should be reworked to be an instant cast, single target, low cost ultimate. Once this happens the class can be balanced properly.

Yes, remove sorcerer's only ultimate that still have uses instead of removing dark exchange, a useless ability not even 1% of the sorcs ever slots in their bars. You clearly know what you are talking about.

To fix the sustained DPS issue for magika sorcs Dark Exchange should be reworked in a spam-able spell with a melee and a ranged morph to untie the class from always needing Force Pulse and Destro Staff. With such an ability available Zenimax could easily mess with the number till they got sorcer DPS up to par with the other magika DPSs without buffing the other classes as well and without causing too much disturbance in PvP.

It would also help with self healing as every activation of our spam-able ability would proc Blood Magic, healing the caster. Pets don't need to be removed, they need a few reworks, that is all.

I think he´s right though.

Yes Overload is the only currently vaible class ultimate. However it´s also the root of many of the classes DPS problems in pve. They simply can´t push the classes "normal" DPS to a really competetive level while leaving the option of a 800 ultimate dump overload into meteor normal rotation in place.
That would simply be too good.
Also "good" overload dps are too easy to achieve on sorcerers. There is no rotation or anything involved. Keep two spells active and spam left mouse. Done.

It´s one of the things holding sorcs back.

All in all sorcs require work on so many ends. The whole concept of having a class without a spam ability has failed imo (that needs reworking). Pets need major rebalancing to be competetive in any form. Overload needs rebalancing.

Attronarch, Twilight, Familiar, Bound Armor, Dark Exchange, Encase, Overload and Mages Wrath are the sorc active spells needing attention/balacing or complete overhauls imo. 8 out of 18 spells the class offers.
The main problem is they can´t be worked on one by one. The class isn´t functional as a whole. Basically the Pet tree is totally seperated from everything else bc it does not even scale in the same way as normal abilities.
But reworking/balancing 8 sorc abilities at once to make the class feel somewhat complete and well rounded at this point in development is most likelynot going to happen.

And that´s why i don´t have hope for the class anymore (also because the majority of these issue have been talked about since launch).

If the other sorcerer ults that provide utility were put in par with Veil and Nova in the healing / mitigation department Sorcerers would hardly ever if ever be allowed to use Overload for a long period of time. Actually, using that ultimate besides in burst situations is actually a loss in DPS thanks to a few nerfs the ability has suffered and also thanks to the bugs that plague it.

I do like using overload during execution phases though, so I at least would be sad to see it go.

WuffyCerulei

I saw the increase of healing done for Dark Exchange and its morphs, but I would really like the cast time to be instant. This way the spell would be a viable self heal in PvP area without needing pets. The Clannfear and Twilight Matriarch heals are awesome and should be kept, but they're better used in PvE instances. Pets in PvP areas are often killed, and the cast time leaves you open. When you dodge roll or evade, the spell isn't carried through, thus not having the pet out for healing. I know both templars and nightblades have good heals, and are often used in PvP. The sorcerer doesn't have such healing.

If reducing the cast time for Dark Exchange and morphs aren't an option, then making pet summoning (after morphing) instant or faster is another possibility. My Clannfear will chase any enemy down, whether I saw them or allies did, but it just dies too often. I'd like to keep my Clannfear on my PvP ability bar, but again, if the cast time leaves me open. The pets have good passives, like restoring magicka and health when killed. Having the pets better suited for PvP instances will also make Daedric Prey, Daedric Curse's morph, more usable too. The time is whatever. The extra 50% damage is what really makes the morph worth it. However, as previously mentioned, the pets die too often and having to constantly resummon them makes me a open target. I'd love the pets to be better used in PvP. They offer so much but in combat sense they're best for PvE.

One more issue with pets!! I don't know if this changed or not, but enemy players can see pets while you're sneaking, thus giving away your position. I know you can sneak around mobs with your pets, but not with enemy players. If this can change, that would be awesome.

Grao

wolfninja101b14_ESO wrote: »

I saw the increase of healing done for Dark Exchange and its morphs, but I would really like the cast time to be instant. This way the spell would be a viable self heal in PvP area without needing pets. The Clannfear and Twilight Matriarch heals are awesome and should be kept, but they're better used in PvE instances. Pets in PvP areas are often killed, and the cast time leaves you open. When you dodge roll or evade, the spell isn't carried through, thus not having the pet out for healing. I know both templars and nightblades have good heals, and are often used in PvP. The sorcerer doesn't have such healing.

If reducing the cast time for Dark Exchange and morphs aren't an option, then making pet summoning (after morphing) instant or faster is another possibility. My Clannfear will chase any enemy down, whether I saw them or allies did, but it just dies too often. I'd like to keep my Clannfear on my PvP ability bar, but again, if the cast time leaves me open. The pets have good passives, like restoring magicka and health when killed. Having the pets better suited for PvP instances will also make Daedric Prey, Daedric Curse's morph, more usable too. The time is whatever. The extra 50% damage is what really makes the morph worth it. However, as previously mentioned, the pets die too often and having to constantly resummon them makes me a open target. I'd love the pets to be better used in PvP. They offer so much but in combat sense they're best for PvE.

One more issue with pets!! I don't know if this changed or not, but enemy players can see pets while you're sneaking, thus giving away your position. I know you can sneak around mobs with your pets, but not with enemy players. If this can change, that would be awesome.

Unless that was reverted ZoS made so that pets also stealth when their summoner is in stealth. Of course if the pets Agro on to something or someone their stealth would be broken and likely the summoner's as well. Did you see my list of suggestions for changes above? I must say I don't PvP as much so I am not sure if I did enough to balance what PvP and PvE needs.

bloodenragedb14_ESO

I dont think Stamina guys need a pet with taunt, or rather, mag sorcs should not have to donate a ability useful to us. if you want to make it scale of the highest stat, fine, but that tanky thing is useful, however little, if you want a pet, take the scamp, but again, whatever skills you stamina callers want should still scale off the highest stat, not complete convert

Grao

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

I dont think Stamina guys need a pet with taunt, or rather, mag sorcs should not have to donate a ability useful to us. if you want to make it scale of the highest stat, fine, but that tanky thing is useful, however little, if you want a pet, take the scamp, but again, whatever skills you stamina callers want should still scale off the highest stat, not complete convert

That 'tanky thing' would still be useful for Magicka Sorcerers because what you want from it is not the damage as much as the tankiness. FOr a damage pet you have Twilight and it surviving, it is much better DPS pet.

The idea of making it scale and summon of stamina is to facilitate bringing back the pet for sorcerer tanks.

FearlessOne_2014

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

Hahahaha, funny. Really really really funny.

That puts dark conversion as a 4400 heal for a 1 second cast time in PvP. Laughable. Seriously useless. Yes let me throw my hardened Ward on, heal myself for 4400 once, maybe twice, to have to reapply said Ward, because enemies in PvP are doing far more than 6k dps. And start that cycle over again. Oh and you'll be draining your stamina while doing this, so have fun getting Cc'd and not being able to break it.

Then to add insult to injury you take away our only good PvE heal!!! My frags and Overload in PvE heal me for 12k easy in vMA, now you want to change that to not even 2k a second!?!? You know how useless that becomes in PvP as well? Every opponent will have a Ward up with this new patch, so you can make it proc off of every crit, still won't change the fact that it WON'T be proccing. And when it does proc I don't think that 990 point heal is going to help sway the battle in my favor, 2k if battle spirit doesn't affect it...

If these changes go live, Sorc class is dead, no reliable selfheal in PvP or PvE, a 6 second Ward that will need to be reapplied constantly draining our magicka (if we don't have that Ward up we get one shot very easily), our only class heals being dark conversion which may be viable in PvE as a tank... Useless in PvP, and solo PvE due to its delayed one second cast time for a measly 4k PvP, 8k PvE. And the Twilight... Which requires 2 slots, can be killed easily, and just isn't a reliable heal or even that strong of a heal.

I recently tried using the Twilight as a replacement for a resto, stacked magicka to 50k on the back bar with sword and board because unlike the Templar's heal it strictly scales off magicka, and even then it was useless. You have to pray your enemy isn't smart enough to 1 shot your pet forcing you to recast a 1.5 second ability for any type of heal, and in a 1 v X scenario it's 100% useless. And to get to 50k magicka I had to use 3 toggles on my back bar, two toggles on my front bar. And doing that I still received a measly 7.5k heal on crits, much less than any decent player can dish out per second in PvP.

You're killing the Sorc class, if the changes for 2.4 go live I see myself rolling a Stamina night blade or magicka Templar, and shelving my Sorc until further notice.

I'm with you on this, I've already shelved my sorc which was my main for 2 years till recent. I've got my Mageplar to V16 during the cake event, and let me tell you that should be the sorcerer class and ZOS should just delete the current sorcerer class for a another arch-type class.
I'm leveling up a Stamblade right now which at lvl 21 has already held it's ground and crushed other V16 players in IC thus far and this is before the buffs from the DB dlc. Next I'll level my Stam DK and after that I can somewhat forget I even liked the Sorcerer class in this game.

FearlessOne_2014

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

Oh look - no official response to the overwhelmingly negative feedback on this thread!

No interim assurances they will look at the issues.

No hint they are going to patch again to change things.

No explanation as to whey they made such massive and fundamental nerfs to Mag. Sorcs. and the viability of PvP and PvE for them.

No sign an OFFICIAL feedback thread means any more to them then a random thread buried in an irrelevant forum which they can ignore with impunity.

It's not like we haven't been telling them they have completely messed up for many days now is it...?

I find this lack of response to be absolutely unacceptable.

Who the hell do they think they are?

If this continues on much more I am going to be putting together a formal complaint letter to them and to the relevant consumer watchdog.

It is about time people engaged at this level in the same way consumers of other products do, and stop rolling over for poor treatment by untouchable developers who think they can significantly change the experience of the product during it's use with impunity, and ignore their customers.

Voting with one's wallet is one thing, sure.

Pressing for a change in consumer rights as regards such products is another.

They can't change the engine control software on your car to reduce performance without your permission! Accepting that a game develops over time - they should not be able to make your favourite toon useless - they should have to demonstrate that their changes are acceptable.

That's not what the T&Cs say of course, and that is far from the current situation...

... but aren't your TIRED of moving from MMO to MMO having your characters and experience degraded and unduly messed with by the same developers making the same stupid mistakes and doing it in a way which is a carbon copy of every other previous disdainful demonstration of how irrelevant they feel their players/customers opinions are?

I am.

You should be too - because this *** won't change unless you force it to.

My recomendation to you is to if you feel in such a way, is that you just stop playing MMOs in general. It's really not like we have 8 character slots to use for more then one character, right? It's really not like everyone can play all class and builds, right? It's not like there is anything else out there, right?

I am just as if not even more upset about the class changes of this game over the years as you. However what you are planning is just a waste of time and possibly money if you do decided to take this all the way. For what, just tell game dev teams that you are unhappy, when the masses in general continue to support said dev teams by throwing millions if not billions at them.

Not saying that you are wrong in your type of thinking I am just saying in this day and age of gaming it's a wasted effort. If you really want to force change then you have to do it through the masses first.

bardx86

cpuScientist wrote: »

tennant94 wrote: »

Sorcs ultimate options are poor now dawnbreakers out the window. Soul strike can be bashed, cleansed and cloaked. Meteor can be blocked. Storm Atro is good but lacks the burst needed to finish most opponents, negate will be good but has no burst damage. Overload is strong but it's so obvious and in your face you need practice if you die to it. Batswarm could be good combined with proxy and impulse. Finally war horn and barrier are more supportive ultimates. Sorcerers basic skills can be countered in many ways, opposed to wrecking blow which can only be blocked or dodged. C frags is strong but can be reflected, dodged and it's easy for good players to see it coming because your hands glow, albeit you can throw at an unexpected time. Curse can be purged. Fighting Templars is pretty much impossible now. They cleanse your curse block your meteor what are you supposed to do? One shot them with crystal frags? Detonate them? Well that's been nerfed single target so nope. Fighting dks, they reflect all your skills and now with the reduction in shield duration you get cc'ed, shield runs out, dragon leap to execute your finished. Nbs same thing cc'ed to dps it's game over. All I can think of is gaining a little more passive defence but then your weaking your shields, maybe to the point where it's better to not have shields but then what's the point in playing the sorcerer anyway. To use streak? The skill unmorphed known as bolt escape that punishes you for trying to escape.

Heyo listen to this consumer @Wrobel

Exactly !

Armann

Overall happy with what we got so far this PTS, there's just one item I think really needs to be addressed before DB goes live. Bound Armor, make something out of it that involves an active ability, anything would be better than letting it go live in its current state. Do something with it @Wrobel , please.

Mush55

Grao wrote: »

potirondb16_ESO wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

kmatt wrote: »

STAM MORPH OF OVERLOAD,

Failing that change how Ultimats work so if its scaling off Stam it does physical damage and if its scaling off magic do magic damage for all class skills, this means that the champion point system works for your build.

Stam sorc needs some love still although hurricane is some nice improvement to its damage it has lost its utility of movement speed which was a big reason to use.

Again ill ask for the "Stone Shard" morph that is the Stam version of the morph we already have that adds a little AoE.

Last thing to say, make the passives useful as a stam sorc half of them are useless and no point taking & now with fighters guild changes we are punished for using our own class skills over fighters guild skills. Something like Major mending when dadric summoning skill is slotted, or at least change the pet passives to be useful to some extent without pets.

Stam Sorc is actually in a far better place than Mag. Sorc. now.

You guys deserve the boost FINALLY, and if other tweaks would further improve your lot - then by all means ask for them.

I would appreciate it if you could also comment on the Mag. Sorcs. nerfs however, as this is the overall Sorc. thread, and Stam. Sorcs. have the benefit of their own exclusive thread to feedback on.

id rather not have to 'donate' skills to a niche build that contridicts the purpose of a sorcerer, who is a master of magic. Mag sorc should be better, in most respects, to stam sorc. you guys want a buff? you should be calling for duel scaling, like the skills scale off your highest stat.

I'd rather not read another one of this ignorant post from someone who has no idea what an Elder Scrolls Sorcerer is. You should go do some research before you dismiss my class that is just a lore friendly as yours. Additionally, don't tell me what buffs I should be asking for if you've never played my class, dual scaling is just a terrible idea.

Oblivion Sorcerer

Morrowind Sorcerer

Have you even read those links you sent? I do agree that stamina sorcerers are something in the Elder Scroll's world, but as the game currently is set up, it is not at all like the Lore. First of all, stamina sorcerers in ESO are forced into medium armor, which they really didn't use that much on the other ES games. That affects how well sorcerers can shield them selves and absorb magika which is one of the class hugest features in the previous games. Also, because you are using medium armor your magika pool, which should be the largest in the game according to all Lore, will be shot... Because otherwise you will have no damage behind your abilities.

ESO can't conform perfectly to the other ES games because it is MMO. It needs a different sort of balancing and I am sorry... MMO wise, sorcerers are primarily magic casters. Just like Nightblades are assassins and thus the class to go for stamina builds, just templars are supposed to the best healers and DK the best tanks. I understand wanting stamina sorcerers to be more viable, but doing so at the expense of the class losing its magika orientation is idiotic at best. For a long time sorcerers have had the worst DPS in general and near to no utility and this patch is only making things worse, at least for Magika sorcerers.

You are absolutely correct. This is an MMO, and because it's an MMO every single class needs to be equally viable. This includes Stam Sorcs. Furthermore, why are we the only class that has to put up with this amount of stupidity? I don't ever see Magic Templars telling Stam Templars that they have no right to exist.

No... I am sorry... You are just wrong... The majority of the MMOs have each class very specialized. Viable only means it is playable, not that playing it will give you awesome results. I am not saying Stamina Sorcerers have no right to exist, I fully support you guys as long as buffing your side of things doesn't mean more nerfs to the Magika sorcerer builds. Unfortunately it seems Zenimax can't do that!

As for why you don't have to deal with this sort of comment on other classes threads, well maybe it is because their class doesn't already suck! Templar are still the best healers in the game, which fits the MMO Meta for the class. DKs are still the best Tanks and Nightblades are still the best Stamina DPS. Unfortunately Sorcerers are the Worst Magika DPS currently in the game instead of the best... That is why we don't need more nerfs so Stamina Sorcs can be better!

Also, I was arguing against your Lore argument that Stamina sorcerers exist in Elder Scrolls because you will never be able to get good results with the same sort of build we used in the other games while playing ESO. Gods know I tried. I started playing as a sorcerer with heavy armor and a two handed sword that focused most of the points in having a huge magika pool... Exactly like the other Elder Scrolls games... Guess how well that worked?

Actually a vast majority of MMOs don't have very specialized classes anymore. Once Blizzard realized people don't like to pigeonholed into a single specific roll because of the class they chose pretty much every company since has followed suit. In most MMOs today nearly every class has at least one viable dps spec.

No viable means the class is capable of performing well enough to be brought into endgame content. Go ask someone that has cleared Vet MoL if they would take a Stam Sorc with them over any other class including Magic Sorc. We have the worst DPS and bring no group utility. We are not currently a viable endgame trial class.

Depending on the content your running NBs are actually far better healers than Templars. Stam DKs are the best stam DPS class, and probably have the highest DPS out of all eight classes. Additionally, the Elder Scrolls lore supports Magic NBs far better than Stam NBs. None of that actually explains why we have to put up with so many ignorant people.

Attacking Stam Sorcs will get you no where. Instead why don't you focus on changes that will improve Magic Sorcs. I'll give you some ideas. Revamp Overload this skill is the reason your sustained DPS is the lowest Magic DPS in MoL. Fight this terrible Surge change. Get Dark Exchange to be actually usable. Get a complete class passive revamp; we have the worst for magic and stam.

And WTF are you talking about??? Overload is the only Ultimate in the sorcerer class that is still useful. Atronach is stupid and doesn't DPS nearly enough and Negate was nerfed to near nonexistence! Revamp overload, you are only suggesting that because you want overload to have a freaking stamina special morph!

Overload is a terrible ultimate, and the reason Magic Sorcs have such low DPS in long fights. I want nothing to do with Overload in it's current form, even if we were given a stamina morph. I hated the skill when I played on my Magic Sorc as well. So don't assume you know why I'm suggesting something. If you know anything about Magic Sorc DPS then you will know that using Overload in a fight that is about 3+ minutes long is a huge DPS loss over using Meteor. However, when using Overload on short duration fights Magic Sorcs have the highest DPS. This is one of the main reason people dismiss Magic Sorcs when you ask for DPS increases. Getting Overload exchanged for some sustained DPS is the best way to help this class, other than removing the pets.

Overload should be reworked to be an instant cast, single target, low cost ultimate. Once this happens the class can be balanced properly.

Yes, remove sorcerer's only ultimate that still have uses instead of removing dark exchange, a useless ability not even 1% of the sorcs ever slots in their bars. You clearly know what you are talking about.

To fix the sustained DPS issue for magika sorcs Dark Exchange should be reworked in a spam-able spell with a melee and a ranged morph to untie the class from always needing Force Pulse and Destro Staff. With such an ability available Zenimax could easily mess with the number till they got sorcer DPS up to par with the other magika DPSs without buffing the other classes as well and without causing too much disturbance in PvP.

It would also help with self healing as every activation of our spam-able ability would proc Blood Magic, healing the caster. Pets don't need to be removed, they need a few reworks, that is all.

As far as magika sorc goes, simply modify the Proc chance of Crystal blast and you got it, but that has repercussion upon pvp a LOT. That's why I think it should be look at from a diversification of the build perspecive.

Add a class AOE that we can use, help people get rid of Bound Armor by giving the magika bonus somewhere else and let us use some much needed versatility.

Maybe an Aoe with the same type of mechanic as Healing Spring but for Domage.Something to spam when needed that we can put Inside our offbar.

We have a class AoE that is actually considered pretty good, if you can target it >.>.

What is this class aoe ?

AhPook_Is_Here

Armann wrote: »

Overall happy with what we got so far this PTS, there's just one item I think really needs to be addressed before DB goes live. Bound Armor, make something out of it that involves an active ability, anything would be better than letting it go live in its current state. Do something with it @Wrobel , please.

I wouldn't mind if they just stacked the bonuses of both morphs of BA on a passive and replaced the skill slot with a decent instant cast DD we can weave with weapon attacks that has a sta and mag morph. Too easy to be tempted to put 4 toggles on both bars. I'd like it if the dd had a bonus effect for existing effects on target, like the way lava whip effects ob targets and SA/HB targets hit from stealth. Something like if the target is cursed or hit by a LF dot in the last x seconds than +x% damage from this ability.

Grao

Mush55 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

potirondb16_ESO wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

kmatt wrote: »

STAM MORPH OF OVERLOAD,

Failing that change how Ultimats work so if its scaling off Stam it does physical damage and if its scaling off magic do magic damage for all class skills, this means that the champion point system works for your build.

Stam sorc needs some love still although hurricane is some nice improvement to its damage it has lost its utility of movement speed which was a big reason to use.

Again ill ask for the "Stone Shard" morph that is the Stam version of the morph we already have that adds a little AoE.

Last thing to say, make the passives useful as a stam sorc half of them are useless and no point taking & now with fighters guild changes we are punished for using our own class skills over fighters guild skills. Something like Major mending when dadric summoning skill is slotted, or at least change the pet passives to be useful to some extent without pets.

Stam Sorc is actually in a far better place than Mag. Sorc. now.

You guys deserve the boost FINALLY, and if other tweaks would further improve your lot - then by all means ask for them.

I would appreciate it if you could also comment on the Mag. Sorcs. nerfs however, as this is the overall Sorc. thread, and Stam. Sorcs. have the benefit of their own exclusive thread to feedback on.

id rather not have to 'donate' skills to a niche build that contridicts the purpose of a sorcerer, who is a master of magic. Mag sorc should be better, in most respects, to stam sorc. you guys want a buff? you should be calling for duel scaling, like the skills scale off your highest stat.

I'd rather not read another one of this ignorant post from someone who has no idea what an Elder Scrolls Sorcerer is. You should go do some research before you dismiss my class that is just a lore friendly as yours. Additionally, don't tell me what buffs I should be asking for if you've never played my class, dual scaling is just a terrible idea.

Oblivion Sorcerer

Morrowind Sorcerer

Have you even read those links you sent? I do agree that stamina sorcerers are something in the Elder Scroll's world, but as the game currently is set up, it is not at all like the Lore. First of all, stamina sorcerers in ESO are forced into medium armor, which they really didn't use that much on the other ES games. That affects how well sorcerers can shield them selves and absorb magika which is one of the class hugest features in the previous games. Also, because you are using medium armor your magika pool, which should be the largest in the game according to all Lore, will be shot... Because otherwise you will have no damage behind your abilities.

ESO can't conform perfectly to the other ES games because it is MMO. It needs a different sort of balancing and I am sorry... MMO wise, sorcerers are primarily magic casters. Just like Nightblades are assassins and thus the class to go for stamina builds, just templars are supposed to the best healers and DK the best tanks. I understand wanting stamina sorcerers to be more viable, but doing so at the expense of the class losing its magika orientation is idiotic at best. For a long time sorcerers have had the worst DPS in general and near to no utility and this patch is only making things worse, at least for Magika sorcerers.

You are absolutely correct. This is an MMO, and because it's an MMO every single class needs to be equally viable. This includes Stam Sorcs. Furthermore, why are we the only class that has to put up with this amount of stupidity? I don't ever see Magic Templars telling Stam Templars that they have no right to exist.

No... I am sorry... You are just wrong... The majority of the MMOs have each class very specialized. Viable only means it is playable, not that playing it will give you awesome results. I am not saying Stamina Sorcerers have no right to exist, I fully support you guys as long as buffing your side of things doesn't mean more nerfs to the Magika sorcerer builds. Unfortunately it seems Zenimax can't do that!

As for why you don't have to deal with this sort of comment on other classes threads, well maybe it is because their class doesn't already suck! Templar are still the best healers in the game, which fits the MMO Meta for the class. DKs are still the best Tanks and Nightblades are still the best Stamina DPS. Unfortunately Sorcerers are the Worst Magika DPS currently in the game instead of the best... That is why we don't need more nerfs so Stamina Sorcs can be better!

Also, I was arguing against your Lore argument that Stamina sorcerers exist in Elder Scrolls because you will never be able to get good results with the same sort of build we used in the other games while playing ESO. Gods know I tried. I started playing as a sorcerer with heavy armor and a two handed sword that focused most of the points in having a huge magika pool... Exactly like the other Elder Scrolls games... Guess how well that worked?

Actually a vast majority of MMOs don't have very specialized classes anymore. Once Blizzard realized people don't like to pigeonholed into a single specific roll because of the class they chose pretty much every company since has followed suit. In most MMOs today nearly every class has at least one viable dps spec.

No viable means the class is capable of performing well enough to be brought into endgame content. Go ask someone that has cleared Vet MoL if they would take a Stam Sorc with them over any other class including Magic Sorc. We have the worst DPS and bring no group utility. We are not currently a viable endgame trial class.

Depending on the content your running NBs are actually far better healers than Templars. Stam DKs are the best stam DPS class, and probably have the highest DPS out of all eight classes. Additionally, the Elder Scrolls lore supports Magic NBs far better than Stam NBs. None of that actually explains why we have to put up with so many ignorant people.

Attacking Stam Sorcs will get you no where. Instead why don't you focus on changes that will improve Magic Sorcs. I'll give you some ideas. Revamp Overload this skill is the reason your sustained DPS is the lowest Magic DPS in MoL. Fight this terrible Surge change. Get Dark Exchange to be actually usable. Get a complete class passive revamp; we have the worst for magic and stam.

And WTF are you talking about??? Overload is the only Ultimate in the sorcerer class that is still useful. Atronach is stupid and doesn't DPS nearly enough and Negate was nerfed to near nonexistence! Revamp overload, you are only suggesting that because you want overload to have a freaking stamina special morph!

Overload is a terrible ultimate, and the reason Magic Sorcs have such low DPS in long fights. I want nothing to do with Overload in it's current form, even if we were given a stamina morph. I hated the skill when I played on my Magic Sorc as well. So don't assume you know why I'm suggesting something. If you know anything about Magic Sorc DPS then you will know that using Overload in a fight that is about 3+ minutes long is a huge DPS loss over using Meteor. However, when using Overload on short duration fights Magic Sorcs have the highest DPS. This is one of the main reason people dismiss Magic Sorcs when you ask for DPS increases. Getting Overload exchanged for some sustained DPS is the best way to help this class, other than removing the pets.

Overload should be reworked to be an instant cast, single target, low cost ultimate. Once this happens the class can be balanced properly.

Yes, remove sorcerer's only ultimate that still have uses instead of removing dark exchange, a useless ability not even 1% of the sorcs ever slots in their bars. You clearly know what you are talking about.

To fix the sustained DPS issue for magika sorcs Dark Exchange should be reworked in a spam-able spell with a melee and a ranged morph to untie the class from always needing Force Pulse and Destro Staff. With such an ability available Zenimax could easily mess with the number till they got sorcer DPS up to par with the other magika DPSs without buffing the other classes as well and without causing too much disturbance in PvP.

It would also help with self healing as every activation of our spam-able ability would proc Blood Magic, healing the caster. Pets don't need to be removed, they need a few reworks, that is all.

As far as magika sorc goes, simply modify the Proc chance of Crystal blast and you got it, but that has repercussion upon pvp a LOT. That's why I think it should be look at from a diversification of the build perspecive.

Add a class AOE that we can use, help people get rid of Bound Armor by giving the magika bonus somewhere else and let us use some much needed versatility.

Maybe an Aoe with the same type of mechanic as Healing Spring but for Domage.Something to spam when needed that we can put Inside our offbar.

We have a class AoE that is actually considered pretty good, if you can target it >.>.

What is this class aoe ?

Liquid Lightning / Lightning Flood
AoE Negate
AoE Atronach
Volatile Familiar's active ability
Mage's Wrath and morph's explosion
Daedric Curse

Those are all class skills with AoE Effects.

Valrien

Grao wrote: »

Mush55 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

potirondb16_ESO wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

kmatt wrote: »

STAM MORPH OF OVERLOAD,

Failing that change how Ultimats work so if its scaling off Stam it does physical damage and if its scaling off magic do magic damage for all class skills, this means that the champion point system works for your build.

Stam sorc needs some love still although hurricane is some nice improvement to its damage it has lost its utility of movement speed which was a big reason to use.

Again ill ask for the "Stone Shard" morph that is the Stam version of the morph we already have that adds a little AoE.

Last thing to say, make the passives useful as a stam sorc half of them are useless and no point taking & now with fighters guild changes we are punished for using our own class skills over fighters guild skills. Something like Major mending when dadric summoning skill is slotted, or at least change the pet passives to be useful to some extent without pets.

Stam Sorc is actually in a far better place than Mag. Sorc. now.

You guys deserve the boost FINALLY, and if other tweaks would further improve your lot - then by all means ask for them.

I would appreciate it if you could also comment on the Mag. Sorcs. nerfs however, as this is the overall Sorc. thread, and Stam. Sorcs. have the benefit of their own exclusive thread to feedback on.

id rather not have to 'donate' skills to a niche build that contridicts the purpose of a sorcerer, who is a master of magic. Mag sorc should be better, in most respects, to stam sorc. you guys want a buff? you should be calling for duel scaling, like the skills scale off your highest stat.

I'd rather not read another one of this ignorant post from someone who has no idea what an Elder Scrolls Sorcerer is. You should go do some research before you dismiss my class that is just a lore friendly as yours. Additionally, don't tell me what buffs I should be asking for if you've never played my class, dual scaling is just a terrible idea.

Oblivion Sorcerer

Morrowind Sorcerer

Have you even read those links you sent? I do agree that stamina sorcerers are something in the Elder Scroll's world, but as the game currently is set up, it is not at all like the Lore. First of all, stamina sorcerers in ESO are forced into medium armor, which they really didn't use that much on the other ES games. That affects how well sorcerers can shield them selves and absorb magika which is one of the class hugest features in the previous games. Also, because you are using medium armor your magika pool, which should be the largest in the game according to all Lore, will be shot... Because otherwise you will have no damage behind your abilities.

ESO can't conform perfectly to the other ES games because it is MMO. It needs a different sort of balancing and I am sorry... MMO wise, sorcerers are primarily magic casters. Just like Nightblades are assassins and thus the class to go for stamina builds, just templars are supposed to the best healers and DK the best tanks. I understand wanting stamina sorcerers to be more viable, but doing so at the expense of the class losing its magika orientation is idiotic at best. For a long time sorcerers have had the worst DPS in general and near to no utility and this patch is only making things worse, at least for Magika sorcerers.

You are absolutely correct. This is an MMO, and because it's an MMO every single class needs to be equally viable. This includes Stam Sorcs. Furthermore, why are we the only class that has to put up with this amount of stupidity? I don't ever see Magic Templars telling Stam Templars that they have no right to exist.

No... I am sorry... You are just wrong... The majority of the MMOs have each class very specialized. Viable only means it is playable, not that playing it will give you awesome results. I am not saying Stamina Sorcerers have no right to exist, I fully support you guys as long as buffing your side of things doesn't mean more nerfs to the Magika sorcerer builds. Unfortunately it seems Zenimax can't do that!

As for why you don't have to deal with this sort of comment on other classes threads, well maybe it is because their class doesn't already suck! Templar are still the best healers in the game, which fits the MMO Meta for the class. DKs are still the best Tanks and Nightblades are still the best Stamina DPS. Unfortunately Sorcerers are the Worst Magika DPS currently in the game instead of the best... That is why we don't need more nerfs so Stamina Sorcs can be better!

Also, I was arguing against your Lore argument that Stamina sorcerers exist in Elder Scrolls because you will never be able to get good results with the same sort of build we used in the other games while playing ESO. Gods know I tried. I started playing as a sorcerer with heavy armor and a two handed sword that focused most of the points in having a huge magika pool... Exactly like the other Elder Scrolls games... Guess how well that worked?

Actually a vast majority of MMOs don't have very specialized classes anymore. Once Blizzard realized people don't like to pigeonholed into a single specific roll because of the class they chose pretty much every company since has followed suit. In most MMOs today nearly every class has at least one viable dps spec.

No viable means the class is capable of performing well enough to be brought into endgame content. Go ask someone that has cleared Vet MoL if they would take a Stam Sorc with them over any other class including Magic Sorc. We have the worst DPS and bring no group utility. We are not currently a viable endgame trial class.

Depending on the content your running NBs are actually far better healers than Templars. Stam DKs are the best stam DPS class, and probably have the highest DPS out of all eight classes. Additionally, the Elder Scrolls lore supports Magic NBs far better than Stam NBs. None of that actually explains why we have to put up with so many ignorant people.

Attacking Stam Sorcs will get you no where. Instead why don't you focus on changes that will improve Magic Sorcs. I'll give you some ideas. Revamp Overload this skill is the reason your sustained DPS is the lowest Magic DPS in MoL. Fight this terrible Surge change. Get Dark Exchange to be actually usable. Get a complete class passive revamp; we have the worst for magic and stam.

And WTF are you talking about??? Overload is the only Ultimate in the sorcerer class that is still useful. Atronach is stupid and doesn't DPS nearly enough and Negate was nerfed to near nonexistence! Revamp overload, you are only suggesting that because you want overload to have a freaking stamina special morph!

Overload is a terrible ultimate, and the reason Magic Sorcs have such low DPS in long fights. I want nothing to do with Overload in it's current form, even if we were given a stamina morph. I hated the skill when I played on my Magic Sorc as well. So don't assume you know why I'm suggesting something. If you know anything about Magic Sorc DPS then you will know that using Overload in a fight that is about 3+ minutes long is a huge DPS loss over using Meteor. However, when using Overload on short duration fights Magic Sorcs have the highest DPS. This is one of the main reason people dismiss Magic Sorcs when you ask for DPS increases. Getting Overload exchanged for some sustained DPS is the best way to help this class, other than removing the pets.

Overload should be reworked to be an instant cast, single target, low cost ultimate. Once this happens the class can be balanced properly.

Yes, remove sorcerer's only ultimate that still have uses instead of removing dark exchange, a useless ability not even 1% of the sorcs ever slots in their bars. You clearly know what you are talking about.

To fix the sustained DPS issue for magika sorcs Dark Exchange should be reworked in a spam-able spell with a melee and a ranged morph to untie the class from always needing Force Pulse and Destro Staff. With such an ability available Zenimax could easily mess with the number till they got sorcer DPS up to par with the other magika DPSs without buffing the other classes as well and without causing too much disturbance in PvP.

It would also help with self healing as every activation of our spam-able ability would proc Blood Magic, healing the caster. Pets don't need to be removed, they need a few reworks, that is all.

As far as magika sorc goes, simply modify the Proc chance of Crystal blast and you got it, but that has repercussion upon pvp a LOT. That's why I think it should be look at from a diversification of the build perspecive.

Add a class AOE that we can use, help people get rid of Bound Armor by giving the magika bonus somewhere else and let us use some much needed versatility.

Maybe an Aoe with the same type of mechanic as Healing Spring but for Domage.Something to spam when needed that we can put Inside our offbar.

We have a class AoE that is actually considered pretty good, if you can target it >.>.

What is this class aoe ?

Liquid Lightning / Lightning Flood
AoE Negate
AoE Atronach
Volatile Familiar's active ability
Mage's Wrath and morph's explosion
Daedric Curse

Those are all class skills with AoE Effects.

1's a pet (non-Ulti), 2 are Ultimates (not very good ones either), 1's an execute (not a very good one either), Curse does laughable splash damage, and Liquid Lightning is probably the best AoE DoT.

Grao

Ops.

Valrien wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Mush55 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

potirondb16_ESO wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

kmatt wrote: »

STAM MORPH OF OVERLOAD,

Failing that change how Ultimats work so if its scaling off Stam it does physical damage and if its scaling off magic do magic damage for all class skills, this means that the champion point system works for your build.

Stam sorc needs some love still although hurricane is some nice improvement to its damage it has lost its utility of movement speed which was a big reason to use.

Again ill ask for the "Stone Shard" morph that is the Stam version of the morph we already have that adds a little AoE.

Last thing to say, make the passives useful as a stam sorc half of them are useless and no point taking & now with fighters guild changes we are punished for using our own class skills over fighters guild skills. Something like Major mending when dadric summoning skill is slotted, or at least change the pet passives to be useful to some extent without pets.

Stam Sorc is actually in a far better place than Mag. Sorc. now.

You guys deserve the boost FINALLY, and if other tweaks would further improve your lot - then by all means ask for them.

I would appreciate it if you could also comment on the Mag. Sorcs. nerfs however, as this is the overall Sorc. thread, and Stam. Sorcs. have the benefit of their own exclusive thread to feedback on.

id rather not have to 'donate' skills to a niche build that contridicts the purpose of a sorcerer, who is a master of magic. Mag sorc should be better, in most respects, to stam sorc. you guys want a buff? you should be calling for duel scaling, like the skills scale off your highest stat.

I'd rather not read another one of this ignorant post from someone who has no idea what an Elder Scrolls Sorcerer is. You should go do some research before you dismiss my class that is just a lore friendly as yours. Additionally, don't tell me what buffs I should be asking for if you've never played my class, dual scaling is just a terrible idea.

Oblivion Sorcerer

Morrowind Sorcerer

Have you even read those links you sent? I do agree that stamina sorcerers are something in the Elder Scroll's world, but as the game currently is set up, it is not at all like the Lore. First of all, stamina sorcerers in ESO are forced into medium armor, which they really didn't use that much on the other ES games. That affects how well sorcerers can shield them selves and absorb magika which is one of the class hugest features in the previous games. Also, because you are using medium armor your magika pool, which should be the largest in the game according to all Lore, will be shot... Because otherwise you will have no damage behind your abilities.

ESO can't conform perfectly to the other ES games because it is MMO. It needs a different sort of balancing and I am sorry... MMO wise, sorcerers are primarily magic casters. Just like Nightblades are assassins and thus the class to go for stamina builds, just templars are supposed to the best healers and DK the best tanks. I understand wanting stamina sorcerers to be more viable, but doing so at the expense of the class losing its magika orientation is idiotic at best. For a long time sorcerers have had the worst DPS in general and near to no utility and this patch is only making things worse, at least for Magika sorcerers.

You are absolutely correct. This is an MMO, and because it's an MMO every single class needs to be equally viable. This includes Stam Sorcs. Furthermore, why are we the only class that has to put up with this amount of stupidity? I don't ever see Magic Templars telling Stam Templars that they have no right to exist.

No... I am sorry... You are just wrong... The majority of the MMOs have each class very specialized. Viable only means it is playable, not that playing it will give you awesome results. I am not saying Stamina Sorcerers have no right to exist, I fully support you guys as long as buffing your side of things doesn't mean more nerfs to the Magika sorcerer builds. Unfortunately it seems Zenimax can't do that!

As for why you don't have to deal with this sort of comment on other classes threads, well maybe it is because their class doesn't already suck! Templar are still the best healers in the game, which fits the MMO Meta for the class. DKs are still the best Tanks and Nightblades are still the best Stamina DPS. Unfortunately Sorcerers are the Worst Magika DPS currently in the game instead of the best... That is why we don't need more nerfs so Stamina Sorcs can be better!

Also, I was arguing against your Lore argument that Stamina sorcerers exist in Elder Scrolls because you will never be able to get good results with the same sort of build we used in the other games while playing ESO. Gods know I tried. I started playing as a sorcerer with heavy armor and a two handed sword that focused most of the points in having a huge magika pool... Exactly like the other Elder Scrolls games... Guess how well that worked?

Actually a vast majority of MMOs don't have very specialized classes anymore. Once Blizzard realized people don't like to pigeonholed into a single specific roll because of the class they chose pretty much every company since has followed suit. In most MMOs today nearly every class has at least one viable dps spec.

No viable means the class is capable of performing well enough to be brought into endgame content. Go ask someone that has cleared Vet MoL if they would take a Stam Sorc with them over any other class including Magic Sorc. We have the worst DPS and bring no group utility. We are not currently a viable endgame trial class.

Depending on the content your running NBs are actually far better healers than Templars. Stam DKs are the best stam DPS class, and probably have the highest DPS out of all eight classes. Additionally, the Elder Scrolls lore supports Magic NBs far better than Stam NBs. None of that actually explains why we have to put up with so many ignorant people.

Attacking Stam Sorcs will get you no where. Instead why don't you focus on changes that will improve Magic Sorcs. I'll give you some ideas. Revamp Overload this skill is the reason your sustained DPS is the lowest Magic DPS in MoL. Fight this terrible Surge change. Get Dark Exchange to be actually usable. Get a complete class passive revamp; we have the worst for magic and stam.

And WTF are you talking about??? Overload is the only Ultimate in the sorcerer class that is still useful. Atronach is stupid and doesn't DPS nearly enough and Negate was nerfed to near nonexistence! Revamp overload, you are only suggesting that because you want overload to have a freaking stamina special morph!

Overload is a terrible ultimate, and the reason Magic Sorcs have such low DPS in long fights. I want nothing to do with Overload in it's current form, even if we were given a stamina morph. I hated the skill when I played on my Magic Sorc as well. So don't assume you know why I'm suggesting something. If you know anything about Magic Sorc DPS then you will know that using Overload in a fight that is about 3+ minutes long is a huge DPS loss over using Meteor. However, when using Overload on short duration fights Magic Sorcs have the highest DPS. This is one of the main reason people dismiss Magic Sorcs when you ask for DPS increases. Getting Overload exchanged for some sustained DPS is the best way to help this class, other than removing the pets.

Overload should be reworked to be an instant cast, single target, low cost ultimate. Once this happens the class can be balanced properly.

Yes, remove sorcerer's only ultimate that still have uses instead of removing dark exchange, a useless ability not even 1% of the sorcs ever slots in their bars. You clearly know what you are talking about.

To fix the sustained DPS issue for magika sorcs Dark Exchange should be reworked in a spam-able spell with a melee and a ranged morph to untie the class from always needing Force Pulse and Destro Staff. With such an ability available Zenimax could easily mess with the number till they got sorcer DPS up to par with the other magika DPSs without buffing the other classes as well and without causing too much disturbance in PvP.

It would also help with self healing as every activation of our spam-able ability would proc Blood Magic, healing the caster. Pets don't need to be removed, they need a few reworks, that is all.

As far as magika sorc goes, simply modify the Proc chance of Crystal blast and you got it, but that has repercussion upon pvp a LOT. That's why I think it should be look at from a diversification of the build perspecive.

Add a class AOE that we can use, help people get rid of Bound Armor by giving the magika bonus somewhere else and let us use some much needed versatility.

Maybe an Aoe with the same type of mechanic as Healing Spring but for Domage.Something to spam when needed that we can put Inside our offbar.

We have a class AoE that is actually considered pretty good, if you can target it >.>.

What is this class aoe ?

Liquid Lightning / Lightning Flood
AoE Negate
AoE Atronach
Volatile Familiar's active ability
Mage's Wrath and morph's explosion
Daedric Curse

Those are all class skills with AoE Effects.

1's a pet (non-Ulti), 2 are Ultimates (not very good ones either), 1's an execute (not a very good one either), Curse does laughable splash damage, and Liquid Lightning is probably the best AoE DoT.

I agree they are not awesome skills, but they can still supplement a weapon AoE pretty decently. I also forgot Lightning form which is also a powerful AoE DoT and the Stamina morph was heavily buffed. I have hopes they will also increase the damage of the Magicka morph.