Official Feedback Thread for Sorcerers

Mush55 · May 2016

Always thought Liquid lightening was a dot due to it's tiny radius unlike pulsar which actually dose area damage..

So we really dont have an effective aoe as a class skill.

Grao · May 2016

Mush55 wrote: »

Always thought Liquid lightening was a dot due to it's tiny radius unlike pulsar which actually dose area damage..

So we really dont have an effective aoe as a class skill.

Liquid Lightning and Lightning Flood are AoE DoTs and are considered quite powerful. It coupled with Unstable wall of elements does far more damage than spamming Ele Ring, for instance. If you stack both those AoEs + Lightning Form + Pulsar you will be doing considerable DPS while keeping all mobs debuffed with the 10% Health Reduction.

Throw in the AoE from Volatile Familiar and you get a really powerful AoE build, specially if they buff pets enough so they actually survive fights.

cpuScientist · May 2016

Grao wrote: »

Alright, this took a little while to type down, but here it goes. Sorcerers as I think they should / could be.

Dark Magic

Negate Magic: [As in Live]
Suppression Field: [As in the PTS] Create a globe of magic suppression, dispelling enemy placed effects instantly.
Enemy players will be silenced rather than stunned.
Heals you and your allies standing within the area of effect by X.

Absorption Field: [As in the PTS] Create a globe of magic suppression, dispelling enemy placed effects instantly.
Enemy players will be silenced rather than stunned.
Deals X Magic Damage to enemies standing within the area of effect.

Dark Exchange: Drains an enemy's strength causing X Magic Damage and Healing the caster by Y% of the Damage Caused. (Ranged, instant cast, 3000 – 3500 Magicka cost)
Dark Slash: [Replacing Dark Deal] Drains an enemy's strength causing X Magic Damage and Healing the caster by Y% of the Damage Caused.
Causes Z additional Magic Damage (Melee, instant cast, 3000 – 3500 Magicka cost)

Dark Conversion: Drains an enemy's strength causing X Magic Damage and Healing the caster by Y% of the Damage Caused.
Additionally regains Z% of the Damage caused as Magicka (Increased Range, instant cast, 3000 – 3500 Magicka cost)

Argument: This skill can be balanced to increase Sorcerer Magicka DPS just enough to be in the same level as the other Magicka Builds and Classes. It would replace Force Pulse in our rotation and its numbers could played with to fix the class's sustain issues while also creating diversity by stimulating the creation of a Melee DPS Magicka Sorcerer. At the same time it preserves some of the original essence of Dark Exchange.

Encase:[As in Live]
Shattering Prison: [As in Live]

Restraining Prison: [As in Live]

Rune Prison: [As in Live]
Rune Cage: [As in Live]

Defensive Rune: [As in Live]

Crystal Shard: [As in Live]
Crystal Blade: [Replacing Crystal Blast] Conjure a dark crystal blade and toss it at an enemy, dealing X Physical Damage and stunning them for 2 seconds.
Casting any other Stamina ability has a 35% chance of causing your next Crystal Blade to be instant, cause the target to bleed for Y seconds, and cost 50% less Stamina.

Crystal Fragments: [As in Live]

Daedric Curse: [Swap with Daedric Mines – As in Live]
Daedric Prey: [As in Live]

Velocious Curse: Curses an enemy with a destructive rune dealing X Magic Damage every second and Y Magic Damage to all other nearby enemies after 3.5 seconds.
Has shorter duration and is converted into a true DoT.

Argument: This ability should be swapped with Daedric Mines for a few reasons, the first being both skills are daedric in nature, but Daedric Curse doesn't summon anything and is not affected in anyway by the passives in the Daedric Summoning Tree. Meanwhile curses are considered Dark Magic and Daedric Mines actually does summon something, not to mention certain passives in Summoning Tree could be tinkered to affect that skill positively.

Unholy Knowledge: [As in Live]

Blood Magic: [As in Live ]

Persistence: [As in Live]

Exploitation: [As in Live]

Daedric Summoning

Argument: Allow all Magicka Scaling Pets to gain extra damage from Spell Power and Stamina Pets to gain extra damage from Weapon Power as well. That or simply increase their damage slightly.

Summon Storm Atronach: [As in Live]
Greater Storm Atronach: Summon a storm atronach at the target location. The atronach's arrival deals X Shock Damage and stuns nearby enemies for 3 seconds. The atronach cannot move but attacks the nearest enemy.
An ally can activate Lightning Barrier, granting a energy shield to all allies in range and the atronach absorbing Y damage for 8 seconds. Atronach has increased duration, health and damage.
Upon Synergy activation, grants all allies in range a energy shield (similar to barrier).

Summon Empowering Atronach: Summon a storm atronach at the target location. The atronach's arrival deals X Shock Damage and stuns nearby enemies for 3 seconds. The atronach cannot move but attacks the nearest enemy.
An ally can activate Charged Lightning, giving both the ally, the Atronach's caster and the atronach Major Berserk, increasing their damage by 25% for 8 seconds.
Caster of the Atronach is also granted Major Berserk upon the activation of the Atronach's Synergy. Additionally, the Atronach has a powerful area effect attack.

Argument: One of the things Sorcerers currently lack is useful utility for a raid or dungeon group. Granting Minor Prophecy is simply not enough and I believe Zenimax recognizes such as true as they are buffing Negate. This changes would grant the Atronach more power and interesting utility, the first morph would sacrifice damage to shield the raid and the second morph would empower not only the ally who activated the synergy, but also the sorcerer, helping the sorcerer DPS.

Unstable Familiar: [As in the PTS]*
Summon Unstable Clannfear: Command the powers of Oblivion to send a clannfear to fight at your side. The clannfear's attacks deal X Physical Damage plus an additional 15%.
Once summoned you can activate the clannfear's special ability, tail swiping nearby enemies and taunting the primary target for Y seconds.
The clannfear remains until killed or unsummoned. (Stamina Based)

Summon Volatile Familiar: [As in PTS]*

Bound Armor: Protect yourself with the power of Oblivion, creating a suit of Daedric mail that grants Minor Resolve and Minor Ward, increasing your Armor and Spell Resistance by X.
Bound Armaments: Protect yourself with the power of Oblivion, creating a suit of Daedric mail that grants Minor Resolve and Minor Ward, increasing your Armor and Spell Resistance by X.
The armor also increases your Max Stamina by 5%.
Once summoned you can activate the armament's special ability, granting Minor Berserk, increasing all damage done by 8% for 5 seconds.

Bound Aegis: Protect yourself with the power of Oblivion, creating a suit of Daedric mail that grants Minor Resolve and Minor Ward, increasing your Armor and Spell Resistance by X.
The armor also increases your Max Health by 5%.
Once summoned you can activate the armor's special ability, healing you for 35% of your Maximum Health

Argument: Again, in an effort to diversify builds this skills would support both Stamina and Tanking sorcerers greatly. The self heal removed from Clannfear coupled with the 5% Health increase would make this a useful toggle for Tanks while Minor Berserk would make Bound Armaments tempting not just for Stamina Sorcerers but also for Magicka Sorcerers. The 5% Stamina increase would be very useful for Stam DPS, but would also be tempting for tanks needing additional resources for blocking, etc.

Summon Winged Twilight: [As in PTS]*
Summon Twilight Tormentor: [As in PTS]*

Summon Twilight Matriarch: [As in PTS]*

Daedric Mines: [As in Live]
Daedric Tomb: [As in Live]

Daedric Minefield: [As in Live]

Conjured Ward: Conjures globes of Daedric energy for protection granting you a damage shield that absorbs X damage for 6 seconds and healing your pets for Y.
Hardened Ward: Conjures globes of Daedric energy for protection granting you a damage shield that absorbs X damage for 6 seconds and healing your pets for Y.
While the ward is active, your summoned creatures are immune to damage.
Your damage shield absorbs 30% more damage.

Empowered Ward: Conjures globes of Daedric energy for protection granting you a damage shield that absorbs X damage for 6 seconds and healing your pets for Y.
While the ward is active, your summoned creatures are immune to damage.
This skill also grants Minor Intellect to you and nearby allies, increasing your Magicka Recovery by 10% for 20 seconds and has reduced cost.

Argument: With the changes proposed above and the considerable nerf to all shields in the game this skill needs a few changes to remain viable, not to mention pets need better protection, specially as Sorcerers will no longer be able to maintain their Wards up 100% of the time. The idea here is to use your ward when your pet is going low on health or when you know it and your self are about to get hit with a massive amount of damage. The choice for the sorcerer would then be between having a larger shield or having their shield cost less and provide some minor utility for their allies.

Rebate: When one of your summoned creatures or mines is killed or triggered, you are restored X Magicka.

Power Stone: [As in Live]

Daedric Protection: [As in Live]

Expert Summoner: Grants you 4/8% more maximum magicka whenever you have a Daedric Summoning pet active.

Argument: Not only would this increase sorcerer DPS by increasing the Magicka pool, it would also increase the pet's DPS and thus make them more attractive. This would also help Tank builds that utilize the Clannfear as part of their build.

Storm Calling

Overload: Charge your fists with the power of the storm. Light attacks become lightning bolts, dealing X Shock Damage and 5% additional damage.
Attacks deplete Ultimate until you run out or the ability is toggled off.
Power Overload: Charge your fists with the power of the storm. Light attacks become lightning bolts, dealing X Shock Damage and 10% additional damage.
Attacks deplete Ultimate until you run out or the ability is toggled off.

Energy Overload: Charge your fists with the power of the storm. Light attacks become lightning bolts, dealing X Shock Damage and 5% additional damage.
Attacks deplete Ultimate until you run out or the ability is toggled off and restore X Magicka and / or Stamina.

Argument: First of all, this ultimate is, in my opinion, the best sorcerer ultimate, not only because its potential burst damage but also because it unlocks a third bar. For a class with quite a few toggles, that is quite a useful feature.
That is not to say it doesn't need a few small changes. Nerfs to its damage have made prolonged use of this ultimate less advantageous, so it could use a slight increase in its power. More importantly though, this is a ultimate plagued by bugs, the most annoying one being getting 'stuck' in heavy attack mode. As its heavy attack isn't powerful enough to be used, I propose simply disabling it as it is not truly a feature for the ultimate, but a problem. Power overload should be about making the ultimate more powerful, not about range and energy overload should return the resource that is actually useful to the sorcerer using the ability or simply return both resources.

Mage's Fury: [As in Live]
Mage's Wrath: [As in Live]*

Endless Fury: Call down lightning to strike an enemy for X Shock Damage.
If target enemy's health falls below 20% within 4 seconds, an explosion deals an additional Y Shock Damage to the target and Z Shock Damage to other enemies nearby.
Applies a lighting charge that increases the damage of the next cast of Endless Fury by 10% stacking up to 3 times.

Argument: I think no one will argue that Endless Fury feels lackluster when compared to Mage's Wrath. The use of the skill doesn't feel endless at all as its special trait only activates when you kill your enemy and at least in PvE that usually mean the fight is over and you don't need the very small amount of Magicka it returns. This change would encourage spamming this ability and would be an interesting boost for extra damage against enemies that won't die to just one or two explosions. I also believe Mage's Wrath AoE 'Explosion' could use buffs.

Lightning Form: [As in Live]
Hurricane: [Replacing Thundering Presence] Manifest yourself as lightning to gain Major Resolve and Major Ward, increasing Armor and Spell Resistance by X for 20 seconds.
While active, nearby enemies will take Y Physical Damage each second. The size and damage of the periodic effect increases the longer it is active, going up to 225% more damage and up to 9 meters in size.
Grants the Minor Expedition buff at all times while it is active.

Boundless Storm: [As in Live]*

Argument: The new Stamina morph for this ability seems great, but it does make the Magicka morph feeling very lackluster. Its cost is higher, its damage is weaker and the duration of its speed buff is considerably shorter, even if the buff is more powerful. Yes, the duration is longer which justify the higher cost, but the damage of the Magicka morph for this ability could use some small buff and its range could see a small increase.

Lightning Splash: [As in Live]
Liquid Lightning: [As in Live]*

Lightning Flood: [As in Live]

Argument: This is a good skill, but Liquid Lightning can be tricky to target. I would gladly see that morph lose its AoE aspect and become a more traditional, single target, powerful DoT. It is not a necessary change though.

Surge: [As in the PTS]*
Power Surge: [As in the PTS]*

Critical Surge: [As in the PTS]*

Argument: I heavily dislike some of the changes this skill suffered this last patch, but I believe Zenimax is still working the numbers. Besides, I believe other changes proposed above would take care of the sustain issues the changes to Surge's internal cooldown and heals would cause.

Bolt Escape: [As in Live]*
Streak: [As in Live]*

Ball of lightning: [As in Live]*

Argument: I will admit this is not a skill a use a lot as my enjoyment in PvP tends to fizzle out after fighting the considerable lag of Cyrodill for about an hour. I do believe the stacking cost increase intended to punish repetitive uses of the skill should be balanced out by a damage increase for each repetitive use. The idea is to keep sorcerers from spamming the ability to run away when they are in trouble, but if the sorcerer is using this ability aggressively, that should be rewarded.

Capacitor: [As in Live]

Energized: [As in the PTS]*

Argument: This is a good passive and the change to it adding Physical Damage is a step on the right direction. I'd love to see that damage buff extended to Magic Damage as well or to all Elemental Damage instead of just Shock Damage. Again, with the changes proposed above this may not be needed.

Implosion: [As in the PTS]

Expert Mage: [As in Live]

@Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno
Please take a look at this. Right here would make the Sorc viable and fun to play. We would have group buffs that would make us useful, and have damage and a really good reason to alot pets.

If anything atleast for now make the change with bound armor mines and pet magick passives...

Grao · May 2016

cpuScientist wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Alright, this took a little while to type down, but here it goes. Sorcerers as I think they should / could be.

Dark Magic

Negate Magic: [As in Live]
Suppression Field: [As in the PTS] Create a globe of magic suppression, dispelling enemy placed effects instantly.
Enemy players will be silenced rather than stunned.
Heals you and your allies standing within the area of effect by X.

Absorption Field: [As in the PTS] Create a globe of magic suppression, dispelling enemy placed effects instantly.
Enemy players will be silenced rather than stunned.
Deals X Magic Damage to enemies standing within the area of effect.

Dark Exchange: Drains an enemy's strength causing X Magic Damage and Healing the caster by Y% of the Damage Caused. (Ranged, instant cast, 3000 – 3500 Magicka cost)
Dark Slash: [Replacing Dark Deal] Drains an enemy's strength causing X Magic Damage and Healing the caster by Y% of the Damage Caused.
Causes Z additional Magic Damage (Melee, instant cast, 3000 – 3500 Magicka cost)

Dark Conversion: Drains an enemy's strength causing X Magic Damage and Healing the caster by Y% of the Damage Caused.
Additionally regains Z% of the Damage caused as Magicka (Increased Range, instant cast, 3000 – 3500 Magicka cost)

Argument: This skill can be balanced to increase Sorcerer Magicka DPS just enough to be in the same level as the other Magicka Builds and Classes. It would replace Force Pulse in our rotation and its numbers could played with to fix the class's sustain issues while also creating diversity by stimulating the creation of a Melee DPS Magicka Sorcerer. At the same time it preserves some of the original essence of Dark Exchange.

Encase:[As in Live]
Shattering Prison: [As in Live]

Restraining Prison: [As in Live]

Rune Prison: [As in Live]
Rune Cage: [As in Live]

Defensive Rune: [As in Live]

Crystal Shard: [As in Live]
Crystal Blade: [Replacing Crystal Blast] Conjure a dark crystal blade and toss it at an enemy, dealing X Physical Damage and stunning them for 2 seconds.
Casting any other Stamina ability has a 35% chance of causing your next Crystal Blade to be instant, cause the target to bleed for Y seconds, and cost 50% less Stamina.

Crystal Fragments: [As in Live]

Daedric Curse: [Swap with Daedric Mines – As in Live]
Daedric Prey: [As in Live]

Velocious Curse: Curses an enemy with a destructive rune dealing X Magic Damage every second and Y Magic Damage to all other nearby enemies after 3.5 seconds.
Has shorter duration and is converted into a true DoT.

Argument: This ability should be swapped with Daedric Mines for a few reasons, the first being both skills are daedric in nature, but Daedric Curse doesn't summon anything and is not affected in anyway by the passives in the Daedric Summoning Tree. Meanwhile curses are considered Dark Magic and Daedric Mines actually does summon something, not to mention certain passives in Summoning Tree could be tinkered to affect that skill positively.

Unholy Knowledge: [As in Live]

Blood Magic: [As in Live ]

Persistence: [As in Live]

Exploitation: [As in Live]

Daedric Summoning

Argument: Allow all Magicka Scaling Pets to gain extra damage from Spell Power and Stamina Pets to gain extra damage from Weapon Power as well. That or simply increase their damage slightly.

Summon Storm Atronach: [As in Live]
Greater Storm Atronach: Summon a storm atronach at the target location. The atronach's arrival deals X Shock Damage and stuns nearby enemies for 3 seconds. The atronach cannot move but attacks the nearest enemy.
An ally can activate Lightning Barrier, granting a energy shield to all allies in range and the atronach absorbing Y damage for 8 seconds. Atronach has increased duration, health and damage.
Upon Synergy activation, grants all allies in range a energy shield (similar to barrier).

Summon Empowering Atronach: Summon a storm atronach at the target location. The atronach's arrival deals X Shock Damage and stuns nearby enemies for 3 seconds. The atronach cannot move but attacks the nearest enemy.
An ally can activate Charged Lightning, giving both the ally, the Atronach's caster and the atronach Major Berserk, increasing their damage by 25% for 8 seconds.
Caster of the Atronach is also granted Major Berserk upon the activation of the Atronach's Synergy. Additionally, the Atronach has a powerful area effect attack.

Argument: One of the things Sorcerers currently lack is useful utility for a raid or dungeon group. Granting Minor Prophecy is simply not enough and I believe Zenimax recognizes such as true as they are buffing Negate. This changes would grant the Atronach more power and interesting utility, the first morph would sacrifice damage to shield the raid and the second morph would empower not only the ally who activated the synergy, but also the sorcerer, helping the sorcerer DPS.

Unstable Familiar: [As in the PTS]*
Summon Unstable Clannfear: Command the powers of Oblivion to send a clannfear to fight at your side. The clannfear's attacks deal X Physical Damage plus an additional 15%.
Once summoned you can activate the clannfear's special ability, tail swiping nearby enemies and taunting the primary target for Y seconds.
The clannfear remains until killed or unsummoned. (Stamina Based)

Summon Volatile Familiar: [As in PTS]*

Bound Armor: Protect yourself with the power of Oblivion, creating a suit of Daedric mail that grants Minor Resolve and Minor Ward, increasing your Armor and Spell Resistance by X.
Bound Armaments: Protect yourself with the power of Oblivion, creating a suit of Daedric mail that grants Minor Resolve and Minor Ward, increasing your Armor and Spell Resistance by X.
The armor also increases your Max Stamina by 5%.
Once summoned you can activate the armament's special ability, granting Minor Berserk, increasing all damage done by 8% for 5 seconds.

Bound Aegis: Protect yourself with the power of Oblivion, creating a suit of Daedric mail that grants Minor Resolve and Minor Ward, increasing your Armor and Spell Resistance by X.
The armor also increases your Max Health by 5%.
Once summoned you can activate the armor's special ability, healing you for 35% of your Maximum Health

Argument: Again, in an effort to diversify builds this skills would support both Stamina and Tanking sorcerers greatly. The self heal removed from Clannfear coupled with the 5% Health increase would make this a useful toggle for Tanks while Minor Berserk would make Bound Armaments tempting not just for Stamina Sorcerers but also for Magicka Sorcerers. The 5% Stamina increase would be very useful for Stam DPS, but would also be tempting for tanks needing additional resources for blocking, etc.

Summon Winged Twilight: [As in PTS]*
Summon Twilight Tormentor: [As in PTS]*

Summon Twilight Matriarch: [As in PTS]*

Daedric Mines: [As in Live]
Daedric Tomb: [As in Live]

Daedric Minefield: [As in Live]

Conjured Ward: Conjures globes of Daedric energy for protection granting you a damage shield that absorbs X damage for 6 seconds and healing your pets for Y.
Hardened Ward: Conjures globes of Daedric energy for protection granting you a damage shield that absorbs X damage for 6 seconds and healing your pets for Y.
While the ward is active, your summoned creatures are immune to damage.
Your damage shield absorbs 30% more damage.

Empowered Ward: Conjures globes of Daedric energy for protection granting you a damage shield that absorbs X damage for 6 seconds and healing your pets for Y.
While the ward is active, your summoned creatures are immune to damage.
This skill also grants Minor Intellect to you and nearby allies, increasing your Magicka Recovery by 10% for 20 seconds and has reduced cost.

Argument: With the changes proposed above and the considerable nerf to all shields in the game this skill needs a few changes to remain viable, not to mention pets need better protection, specially as Sorcerers will no longer be able to maintain their Wards up 100% of the time. The idea here is to use your ward when your pet is going low on health or when you know it and your self are about to get hit with a massive amount of damage. The choice for the sorcerer would then be between having a larger shield or having their shield cost less and provide some minor utility for their allies.

Rebate: When one of your summoned creatures or mines is killed or triggered, you are restored X Magicka.

Power Stone: [As in Live]

Daedric Protection: [As in Live]

Expert Summoner: Grants you 4/8% more maximum magicka whenever you have a Daedric Summoning pet active.

Argument: Not only would this increase sorcerer DPS by increasing the Magicka pool, it would also increase the pet's DPS and thus make them more attractive. This would also help Tank builds that utilize the Clannfear as part of their build.

Storm Calling

Overload: Charge your fists with the power of the storm. Light attacks become lightning bolts, dealing X Shock Damage and 5% additional damage.
Attacks deplete Ultimate until you run out or the ability is toggled off.
Power Overload: Charge your fists with the power of the storm. Light attacks become lightning bolts, dealing X Shock Damage and 10% additional damage.
Attacks deplete Ultimate until you run out or the ability is toggled off.

Energy Overload: Charge your fists with the power of the storm. Light attacks become lightning bolts, dealing X Shock Damage and 5% additional damage.
Attacks deplete Ultimate until you run out or the ability is toggled off and restore X Magicka and / or Stamina.

Argument: First of all, this ultimate is, in my opinion, the best sorcerer ultimate, not only because its potential burst damage but also because it unlocks a third bar. For a class with quite a few toggles, that is quite a useful feature.
That is not to say it doesn't need a few small changes. Nerfs to its damage have made prolonged use of this ultimate less advantageous, so it could use a slight increase in its power. More importantly though, this is a ultimate plagued by bugs, the most annoying one being getting 'stuck' in heavy attack mode. As its heavy attack isn't powerful enough to be used, I propose simply disabling it as it is not truly a feature for the ultimate, but a problem. Power overload should be about making the ultimate more powerful, not about range and energy overload should return the resource that is actually useful to the sorcerer using the ability or simply return both resources.

Mage's Fury: [As in Live]
Mage's Wrath: [As in Live]*

Endless Fury: Call down lightning to strike an enemy for X Shock Damage.
If target enemy's health falls below 20% within 4 seconds, an explosion deals an additional Y Shock Damage to the target and Z Shock Damage to other enemies nearby.
Applies a lighting charge that increases the damage of the next cast of Endless Fury by 10% stacking up to 3 times.

Argument: I think no one will argue that Endless Fury feels lackluster when compared to Mage's Wrath. The use of the skill doesn't feel endless at all as its special trait only activates when you kill your enemy and at least in PvE that usually mean the fight is over and you don't need the very small amount of Magicka it returns. This change would encourage spamming this ability and would be an interesting boost for extra damage against enemies that won't die to just one or two explosions. I also believe Mage's Wrath AoE 'Explosion' could use buffs.

Lightning Form: [As in Live]
Hurricane: [Replacing Thundering Presence] Manifest yourself as lightning to gain Major Resolve and Major Ward, increasing Armor and Spell Resistance by X for 20 seconds.
While active, nearby enemies will take Y Physical Damage each second. The size and damage of the periodic effect increases the longer it is active, going up to 225% more damage and up to 9 meters in size.
Grants the Minor Expedition buff at all times while it is active.

Boundless Storm: [As in Live]*

Argument: The new Stamina morph for this ability seems great, but it does make the Magicka morph feeling very lackluster. Its cost is higher, its damage is weaker and the duration of its speed buff is considerably shorter, even if the buff is more powerful. Yes, the duration is longer which justify the higher cost, but the damage of the Magicka morph for this ability could use some small buff and its range could see a small increase.

Lightning Splash: [As in Live]
Liquid Lightning: [As in Live]*

Lightning Flood: [As in Live]

Argument: This is a good skill, but Liquid Lightning can be tricky to target. I would gladly see that morph lose its AoE aspect and become a more traditional, single target, powerful DoT. It is not a necessary change though.

Surge: [As in the PTS]*
Power Surge: [As in the PTS]*

Critical Surge: [As in the PTS]*

Argument: I heavily dislike some of the changes this skill suffered this last patch, but I believe Zenimax is still working the numbers. Besides, I believe other changes proposed above would take care of the sustain issues the changes to Surge's internal cooldown and heals would cause.

Bolt Escape: [As in Live]*
Streak: [As in Live]*

Ball of lightning: [As in Live]*

Argument: I will admit this is not a skill a use a lot as my enjoyment in PvP tends to fizzle out after fighting the considerable lag of Cyrodill for about an hour. I do believe the stacking cost increase intended to punish repetitive uses of the skill should be balanced out by a damage increase for each repetitive use. The idea is to keep sorcerers from spamming the ability to run away when they are in trouble, but if the sorcerer is using this ability aggressively, that should be rewarded.

Capacitor: [As in Live]

Energized: [As in the PTS]*

Argument: This is a good passive and the change to it adding Physical Damage is a step on the right direction. I'd love to see that damage buff extended to Magic Damage as well or to all Elemental Damage instead of just Shock Damage. Again, with the changes proposed above this may not be needed.

Implosion: [As in the PTS]

Expert Mage: [As in Live]

@Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno
Please take a look at this. Right here would make the Sorc viable and fun to play. We would have group buffs that would make us useful, and have damage and a really good reason to alot pets.

If anything atleast for now make the change with bound armor mines and pet magick passives...

I am glad someone took the time to read all of that >.> Typing all of it and formating it too quite a bit of time

cpuScientist · May 2016

Grao wrote: »

Ops.

Valrien wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Mush55 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

potirondb16_ESO wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

kmatt wrote: »

STAM MORPH OF OVERLOAD,

Failing that change how Ultimats work so if its scaling off Stam it does physical damage and if its scaling off magic do magic damage for all class skills, this means that the champion point system works for your build.

Stam sorc needs some love still although hurricane is some nice improvement to its damage it has lost its utility of movement speed which was a big reason to use.

Again ill ask for the "Stone Shard" morph that is the Stam version of the morph we already have that adds a little AoE.

Last thing to say, make the passives useful as a stam sorc half of them are useless and no point taking & now with fighters guild changes we are punished for using our own class skills over fighters guild skills. Something like Major mending when dadric summoning skill is slotted, or at least change the pet passives to be useful to some extent without pets.

Stam Sorc is actually in a far better place than Mag. Sorc. now.

You guys deserve the boost FINALLY, and if other tweaks would further improve your lot - then by all means ask for them.

I would appreciate it if you could also comment on the Mag. Sorcs. nerfs however, as this is the overall Sorc. thread, and Stam. Sorcs. have the benefit of their own exclusive thread to feedback on.

id rather not have to 'donate' skills to a niche build that contridicts the purpose of a sorcerer, who is a master of magic. Mag sorc should be better, in most respects, to stam sorc. you guys want a buff? you should be calling for duel scaling, like the skills scale off your highest stat.

I'd rather not read another one of this ignorant post from someone who has no idea what an Elder Scrolls Sorcerer is. You should go do some research before you dismiss my class that is just a lore friendly as yours. Additionally, don't tell me what buffs I should be asking for if you've never played my class, dual scaling is just a terrible idea.

Oblivion Sorcerer

Morrowind Sorcerer

Have you even read those links you sent? I do agree that stamina sorcerers are something in the Elder Scroll's world, but as the game currently is set up, it is not at all like the Lore. First of all, stamina sorcerers in ESO are forced into medium armor, which they really didn't use that much on the other ES games. That affects how well sorcerers can shield them selves and absorb magika which is one of the class hugest features in the previous games. Also, because you are using medium armor your magika pool, which should be the largest in the game according to all Lore, will be shot... Because otherwise you will have no damage behind your abilities.

ESO can't conform perfectly to the other ES games because it is MMO. It needs a different sort of balancing and I am sorry... MMO wise, sorcerers are primarily magic casters. Just like Nightblades are assassins and thus the class to go for stamina builds, just templars are supposed to the best healers and DK the best tanks. I understand wanting stamina sorcerers to be more viable, but doing so at the expense of the class losing its magika orientation is idiotic at best. For a long time sorcerers have had the worst DPS in general and near to no utility and this patch is only making things worse, at least for Magika sorcerers.

You are absolutely correct. This is an MMO, and because it's an MMO every single class needs to be equally viable. This includes Stam Sorcs. Furthermore, why are we the only class that has to put up with this amount of stupidity? I don't ever see Magic Templars telling Stam Templars that they have no right to exist.

No... I am sorry... You are just wrong... The majority of the MMOs have each class very specialized. Viable only means it is playable, not that playing it will give you awesome results. I am not saying Stamina Sorcerers have no right to exist, I fully support you guys as long as buffing your side of things doesn't mean more nerfs to the Magika sorcerer builds. Unfortunately it seems Zenimax can't do that!

As for why you don't have to deal with this sort of comment on other classes threads, well maybe it is because their class doesn't already suck! Templar are still the best healers in the game, which fits the MMO Meta for the class. DKs are still the best Tanks and Nightblades are still the best Stamina DPS. Unfortunately Sorcerers are the Worst Magika DPS currently in the game instead of the best... That is why we don't need more nerfs so Stamina Sorcs can be better!

Also, I was arguing against your Lore argument that Stamina sorcerers exist in Elder Scrolls because you will never be able to get good results with the same sort of build we used in the other games while playing ESO. Gods know I tried. I started playing as a sorcerer with heavy armor and a two handed sword that focused most of the points in having a huge magika pool... Exactly like the other Elder Scrolls games... Guess how well that worked?

Actually a vast majority of MMOs don't have very specialized classes anymore. Once Blizzard realized people don't like to pigeonholed into a single specific roll because of the class they chose pretty much every company since has followed suit. In most MMOs today nearly every class has at least one viable dps spec.

No viable means the class is capable of performing well enough to be brought into endgame content. Go ask someone that has cleared Vet MoL if they would take a Stam Sorc with them over any other class including Magic Sorc. We have the worst DPS and bring no group utility. We are not currently a viable endgame trial class.

Depending on the content your running NBs are actually far better healers than Templars. Stam DKs are the best stam DPS class, and probably have the highest DPS out of all eight classes. Additionally, the Elder Scrolls lore supports Magic NBs far better than Stam NBs. None of that actually explains why we have to put up with so many ignorant people.

Attacking Stam Sorcs will get you no where. Instead why don't you focus on changes that will improve Magic Sorcs. I'll give you some ideas. Revamp Overload this skill is the reason your sustained DPS is the lowest Magic DPS in MoL. Fight this terrible Surge change. Get Dark Exchange to be actually usable. Get a complete class passive revamp; we have the worst for magic and stam.

And WTF are you talking about??? Overload is the only Ultimate in the sorcerer class that is still useful. Atronach is stupid and doesn't DPS nearly enough and Negate was nerfed to near nonexistence! Revamp overload, you are only suggesting that because you want overload to have a freaking stamina special morph!

Overload is a terrible ultimate, and the reason Magic Sorcs have such low DPS in long fights. I want nothing to do with Overload in it's current form, even if we were given a stamina morph. I hated the skill when I played on my Magic Sorc as well. So don't assume you know why I'm suggesting something. If you know anything about Magic Sorc DPS then you will know that using Overload in a fight that is about 3+ minutes long is a huge DPS loss over using Meteor. However, when using Overload on short duration fights Magic Sorcs have the highest DPS. This is one of the main reason people dismiss Magic Sorcs when you ask for DPS increases. Getting Overload exchanged for some sustained DPS is the best way to help this class, other than removing the pets.

Overload should be reworked to be an instant cast, single target, low cost ultimate. Once this happens the class can be balanced properly.

Yes, remove sorcerer's only ultimate that still have uses instead of removing dark exchange, a useless ability not even 1% of the sorcs ever slots in their bars. You clearly know what you are talking about.

To fix the sustained DPS issue for magika sorcs Dark Exchange should be reworked in a spam-able spell with a melee and a ranged morph to untie the class from always needing Force Pulse and Destro Staff. With such an ability available Zenimax could easily mess with the number till they got sorcer DPS up to par with the other magika DPSs without buffing the other classes as well and without causing too much disturbance in PvP.

It would also help with self healing as every activation of our spam-able ability would proc Blood Magic, healing the caster. Pets don't need to be removed, they need a few reworks, that is all.

As far as magika sorc goes, simply modify the Proc chance of Crystal blast and you got it, but that has repercussion upon pvp a LOT. That's why I think it should be look at from a diversification of the build perspecive.

Add a class AOE that we can use, help people get rid of Bound Armor by giving the magika bonus somewhere else and let us use some much needed versatility.

Maybe an Aoe with the same type of mechanic as Healing Spring but for Domage.Something to spam when needed that we can put Inside our offbar.

We have a class AoE that is actually considered pretty good, if you can target it >.>.

What is this class aoe ?

Liquid Lightning / Lightning Flood
AoE Negate
AoE Atronach
Volatile Familiar's active ability
Mage's Wrath and morph's explosion
Daedric Curse

Those are all class skills with AoE Effects.

1's a pet (non-Ulti), 2 are Ultimates (not very good ones either), 1's an execute (not a very good one either), Curse does laughable splash damage, and Liquid Lightning is probably the best AoE DoT.

I agree they are not awesome skills, but they can still supplement a weapon AoE pretty decently. I also forgot Lightning form which is also a powerful AoE DoT and the Stamina morph was heavily buffed. I have hopes they will also increase the damage of the Magicka morph.

No they can't lol. The pet at endgame does half the aoe damage of impulse. And it requires triple slotting. An execute that triggers at 20% come on. ULTIMATES are not part of the conversation especially when they cost 150+ to whip out. Curse blows up after 3.5-6 seconds no bueno and the damage is laughable.

However I did find me a way to make it work that does not involve impulse but still relies on destro staves. Face it we are tied to destro for AOE and single target.

LOL we neeeeeed destro so bad we might aswell have a passive boosting destro use. It is 100% part of the Sorc.

Grao · May 2016

cpuScientist wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ops.

Valrien wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Mush55 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

potirondb16_ESO wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

kmatt wrote: »

STAM MORPH OF OVERLOAD,

Failing that change how Ultimats work so if its scaling off Stam it does physical damage and if its scaling off magic do magic damage for all class skills, this means that the champion point system works for your build.

Stam sorc needs some love still although hurricane is some nice improvement to its damage it has lost its utility of movement speed which was a big reason to use.

Again ill ask for the "Stone Shard" morph that is the Stam version of the morph we already have that adds a little AoE.

Last thing to say, make the passives useful as a stam sorc half of them are useless and no point taking & now with fighters guild changes we are punished for using our own class skills over fighters guild skills. Something like Major mending when dadric summoning skill is slotted, or at least change the pet passives to be useful to some extent without pets.

Stam Sorc is actually in a far better place than Mag. Sorc. now.

You guys deserve the boost FINALLY, and if other tweaks would further improve your lot - then by all means ask for them.

I would appreciate it if you could also comment on the Mag. Sorcs. nerfs however, as this is the overall Sorc. thread, and Stam. Sorcs. have the benefit of their own exclusive thread to feedback on.

id rather not have to 'donate' skills to a niche build that contridicts the purpose of a sorcerer, who is a master of magic. Mag sorc should be better, in most respects, to stam sorc. you guys want a buff? you should be calling for duel scaling, like the skills scale off your highest stat.

I'd rather not read another one of this ignorant post from someone who has no idea what an Elder Scrolls Sorcerer is. You should go do some research before you dismiss my class that is just a lore friendly as yours. Additionally, don't tell me what buffs I should be asking for if you've never played my class, dual scaling is just a terrible idea.

Oblivion Sorcerer

Morrowind Sorcerer

Have you even read those links you sent? I do agree that stamina sorcerers are something in the Elder Scroll's world, but as the game currently is set up, it is not at all like the Lore. First of all, stamina sorcerers in ESO are forced into medium armor, which they really didn't use that much on the other ES games. That affects how well sorcerers can shield them selves and absorb magika which is one of the class hugest features in the previous games. Also, because you are using medium armor your magika pool, which should be the largest in the game according to all Lore, will be shot... Because otherwise you will have no damage behind your abilities.

ESO can't conform perfectly to the other ES games because it is MMO. It needs a different sort of balancing and I am sorry... MMO wise, sorcerers are primarily magic casters. Just like Nightblades are assassins and thus the class to go for stamina builds, just templars are supposed to the best healers and DK the best tanks. I understand wanting stamina sorcerers to be more viable, but doing so at the expense of the class losing its magika orientation is idiotic at best. For a long time sorcerers have had the worst DPS in general and near to no utility and this patch is only making things worse, at least for Magika sorcerers.

You are absolutely correct. This is an MMO, and because it's an MMO every single class needs to be equally viable. This includes Stam Sorcs. Furthermore, why are we the only class that has to put up with this amount of stupidity? I don't ever see Magic Templars telling Stam Templars that they have no right to exist.

No... I am sorry... You are just wrong... The majority of the MMOs have each class very specialized. Viable only means it is playable, not that playing it will give you awesome results. I am not saying Stamina Sorcerers have no right to exist, I fully support you guys as long as buffing your side of things doesn't mean more nerfs to the Magika sorcerer builds. Unfortunately it seems Zenimax can't do that!

As for why you don't have to deal with this sort of comment on other classes threads, well maybe it is because their class doesn't already suck! Templar are still the best healers in the game, which fits the MMO Meta for the class. DKs are still the best Tanks and Nightblades are still the best Stamina DPS. Unfortunately Sorcerers are the Worst Magika DPS currently in the game instead of the best... That is why we don't need more nerfs so Stamina Sorcs can be better!

Also, I was arguing against your Lore argument that Stamina sorcerers exist in Elder Scrolls because you will never be able to get good results with the same sort of build we used in the other games while playing ESO. Gods know I tried. I started playing as a sorcerer with heavy armor and a two handed sword that focused most of the points in having a huge magika pool... Exactly like the other Elder Scrolls games... Guess how well that worked?

Actually a vast majority of MMOs don't have very specialized classes anymore. Once Blizzard realized people don't like to pigeonholed into a single specific roll because of the class they chose pretty much every company since has followed suit. In most MMOs today nearly every class has at least one viable dps spec.

No viable means the class is capable of performing well enough to be brought into endgame content. Go ask someone that has cleared Vet MoL if they would take a Stam Sorc with them over any other class including Magic Sorc. We have the worst DPS and bring no group utility. We are not currently a viable endgame trial class.

Depending on the content your running NBs are actually far better healers than Templars. Stam DKs are the best stam DPS class, and probably have the highest DPS out of all eight classes. Additionally, the Elder Scrolls lore supports Magic NBs far better than Stam NBs. None of that actually explains why we have to put up with so many ignorant people.

Attacking Stam Sorcs will get you no where. Instead why don't you focus on changes that will improve Magic Sorcs. I'll give you some ideas. Revamp Overload this skill is the reason your sustained DPS is the lowest Magic DPS in MoL. Fight this terrible Surge change. Get Dark Exchange to be actually usable. Get a complete class passive revamp; we have the worst for magic and stam.

And WTF are you talking about??? Overload is the only Ultimate in the sorcerer class that is still useful. Atronach is stupid and doesn't DPS nearly enough and Negate was nerfed to near nonexistence! Revamp overload, you are only suggesting that because you want overload to have a freaking stamina special morph!

Overload is a terrible ultimate, and the reason Magic Sorcs have such low DPS in long fights. I want nothing to do with Overload in it's current form, even if we were given a stamina morph. I hated the skill when I played on my Magic Sorc as well. So don't assume you know why I'm suggesting something. If you know anything about Magic Sorc DPS then you will know that using Overload in a fight that is about 3+ minutes long is a huge DPS loss over using Meteor. However, when using Overload on short duration fights Magic Sorcs have the highest DPS. This is one of the main reason people dismiss Magic Sorcs when you ask for DPS increases. Getting Overload exchanged for some sustained DPS is the best way to help this class, other than removing the pets.

Overload should be reworked to be an instant cast, single target, low cost ultimate. Once this happens the class can be balanced properly.

Yes, remove sorcerer's only ultimate that still have uses instead of removing dark exchange, a useless ability not even 1% of the sorcs ever slots in their bars. You clearly know what you are talking about.

To fix the sustained DPS issue for magika sorcs Dark Exchange should be reworked in a spam-able spell with a melee and a ranged morph to untie the class from always needing Force Pulse and Destro Staff. With such an ability available Zenimax could easily mess with the number till they got sorcer DPS up to par with the other magika DPSs without buffing the other classes as well and without causing too much disturbance in PvP.

It would also help with self healing as every activation of our spam-able ability would proc Blood Magic, healing the caster. Pets don't need to be removed, they need a few reworks, that is all.

As far as magika sorc goes, simply modify the Proc chance of Crystal blast and you got it, but that has repercussion upon pvp a LOT. That's why I think it should be look at from a diversification of the build perspecive.

Add a class AOE that we can use, help people get rid of Bound Armor by giving the magika bonus somewhere else and let us use some much needed versatility.

Maybe an Aoe with the same type of mechanic as Healing Spring but for Domage.Something to spam when needed that we can put Inside our offbar.

We have a class AoE that is actually considered pretty good, if you can target it >.>.

What is this class aoe ?

Liquid Lightning / Lightning Flood
AoE Negate
AoE Atronach
Volatile Familiar's active ability
Mage's Wrath and morph's explosion
Daedric Curse

Those are all class skills with AoE Effects.

1's a pet (non-Ulti), 2 are Ultimates (not very good ones either), 1's an execute (not a very good one either), Curse does laughable splash damage, and Liquid Lightning is probably the best AoE DoT.

I agree they are not awesome skills, but they can still supplement a weapon AoE pretty decently. I also forgot Lightning form which is also a powerful AoE DoT and the Stamina morph was heavily buffed. I have hopes they will also increase the damage of the Magicka morph.

No they can't lol. The pet at endgame does half the aoe damage of impulse. And it requires triple slotting. An execute that triggers at 20% come on. ULTIMATES are not part of the conversation especially when they cost 150+ to whip out. Curse blows up after 3.5-6 seconds no bueno and the damage is laughable.

However I did find me a way to make it work that does not involve impulse but still relies on destro staves. Face it we are tied to destro for AOE and single target.

LOL we neeeeeed destro so bad we might aswell have a passive boosting destro use. It is 100% part of the Sorc.

Well's you'd only have that pet for AoE fights against mobs, so you wouldn't need to triple slot it and while it doesn't do as much damage as impulse, it coupled with unstable wall of elements, liquid lighting, lighting form and Pulsar would do significant damage.

You are right about us being heavily tied to Destro Staves though. Even with the changes I proposed we'd still need it for supplemental AoE damage.

klink012 · May 2016

cpuScientist wrote: »

NativeJoe wrote: »

*******************************************************************************************
IF YOU DON"T UNDERSTAND THE ISSUE SORCS ARE HAVING WITH SHIELD REDUCTION AND OTHER NERFS PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A POST STATING YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND. Thanks ~Broken'Stick
*******************************************************************************************

Why is the duration 6 seconds?
Because how long does fear last? right so u shield up. the NB gets a smirk, buffs up, fears you, u run around like and idiot lose ur shields, and he gets his combo in unmitigated. A well timed Dizzy swing and ur on the ground, ult time as soon as the shields expire. IT is basically just a way to give EVERY class their own shot at us without having to go through any mitigation. and lets not forget the dirty little secret of the transmutation set. If you are healed by a person and are wearing 7/7 impen... Sorcs CANNOT heal off you because you are immune to critical strikes. Also with everyone having shields...same issue. So sorcs cannot recover hp.

Why do I personally have an issue with the changes?
It isn't that they Changed just my shields and I'm QQing in the corner. let me try to paint a picture everyone can see.

In pvp... Every class has it's own damage mitigation techniques. NBs can stealth, shuffle, dodge. Dks Traditionally are the tankiest of builds and can mitigate damage greatly; they also get flappy wings to reflect direct damage projectiles such as crystal frags, overload, crushing shock, flame clench, and that sorta thing. Templars can out mitigate, out heal, and have insane resource management to get by, Sorcs have Streak, rune prison, soft CC, and Shields as our Damage mitigation techniques.

A broad description that isn't by any means absolute. or the entire story...but u get the idea...every class has it's own WAY of dealing with heavy damage.

So I'm playing a pet build...doing Awsome btw : https://www.twitch.tv/trixytricks/v/64395447 : And then Zos comes in and goes hey... shield duration reduced by 70%, Your pet curse now is not considered a dot and thus does not benefit from CP in thermaturge (these things are 2 major nerfs to my pets survival, my resource management, my ability to not get randomly ganked, etc) ..... okay awsome..... but they weren't finished. ALSO all shields now protect against all damage, every class can now shield stack, AND we're upping the damage of proxy. (5 pets x 25% more damage + me roughly means im going to take 20k damage from it by myself...if not more) So now all my opponents just got tougher, my dps just got lower, and they put in basically a kill switch to my pet build.

understand a little bit of my frustration here?

By no means is that all they did, nor all they will do... they gotta do something about stamina sorc now...which probably means magicka sorcs of all kinds are about to lose something.

And thats just talking about this specific build. Sorc shield tanks, CC sustain sorc builds, and others are on the chopping block too. It's a wide range of builds that are going to suffer by changing a "class defining" skill.

Why do I have problems with it in pve?
basically our BIS gear (to be remotely competitive) doesn't give HP, and our defenses are paper thin... like unshielded we get one shot thin. So traditionally we used shields so we didn't have to lose THAT much dps by dropping lots of points into hp or jumping heavy armor or the like. Now in pve they are basically making us take off our shields..because there is no way to run molag kena (skills cost 33% more) and do a skill rotation and be spamming shields every 6 seconds. Which means we have to adapt... Maybe slotting a pet in the place of the shield would give enough hp room for templar healer to keep us up...idk but either way it's a massive change to sorcs, and it's a tough bullet to swallow to have to depend on the competency of another for survival.

Why do I feel like a wet noodle next to other classes in the dps role?
have you been in a parse with someone on the higher end of the dps spectrum. aka actually wearing bis gear? a NB or DK can easily pull 50k dps. Templar HEALERS doing their job can do 20k+ dps. Sorcs doing all their rotations, perfectly buffed, and in cookie cutter builds struggle to break 25k.

And remember the other classes shield stacking too...so if your doing the same ur cutting your dps for a no win scenerio. Dk's are now the best shield stackers with flappy wings, thorn shield (reflects 33% damage back), and the fact they can self heal and pretty much already dominated the damage mitigation scene prior to this anyway.

Our shields where donated to the other classes. my honest opinion is to ditch em, and try to go for something else. otherwise it is kinda like the vanilla days of wow...paladin vs paladin.

What else do I hate about DB changes as far as sorcs are concerned?
Currently we lack Complete originality in the area of Stamina sorcs (which use very few class skills and basically just use being a "sorc" as a utility)
And With magicka sorcs being the bottom of the barrel dps wise across the board and the fact our class "unique-ness" has been lost due to the fact everyone is now inheriting our damage mitigation techniques while retaining their own...
Get ganked by a shielded NB from stealth...because you forgot to spam your shield Every 6 seconds while walking around.
Sorcs are no longer the best shielders... DK's are. With flappy wings, thorn shield, and heavy damage mitigation...they're the new kings.
I hate that I'm having to rethink and recraft all my gear now. No longer can I depend on shields to get me through...but im lost as to what to do.
Currently I'm thinking with our shields being reduced to 6 seconds and it just not being feasible to refresh them constantly on a pet build or CC based sustain build for pvp we need to invest in tactics that Don't use shields... for that we basically need to take all points out of magicka and invest in health instead... utilizing the new buffs in heavy armor, and the +8% max hp for having a pet summoned we stack that with entrophy + 8% and we'll see a build that can actually take a hit from enemy players. The problem with this idea is where is our damage coming from, and more importantly how are we sustaining such a build? There is a pvp set that combined with 7/7 impren makes builds uncritable , and therefor we can't rely on critical surge for anything at all. As for our pet... he's 15k hp in DB and shieldless he's pretty much a one shot. But maybe there is a way to mitigate damage enough to let mutagens or something do the work for us.

For pve... shields are pointless, we;re already the lowest dps...refreshing a shield every 6 seconds is absolutely pointless. Infact it is a liability. So we're going to have to rely on healers, Slot a pet instead of a shield for the extra 8% hp (since our best in slot gear doesn't give us hp) and try to do our basic OL set up (molag kena and shield casting every 6 seconds doesn't work, some come DB you have to lose one or the other)

Now here's the thing... these 2 builds are not transferable from one area to the other... therefor I think those of us who do pvp mostly will have to Tank in the pve setting. and those of us pveing mostly will either have to hide in the Zerg and hope to not get hit in the cross fire, or go cookie cutter sorc.(cookie cutter sorc is using burst damage, 1 resto staff, 1 destro staff with trade mark abilities like crushing shock, mines, streak, and frags to destroy opponents)

Niche builds are basically being annihilated by this DB patch...and proxy counting pets as targets and scaling much higher much faster means pet builds are pretty much done in pvp. Also with our primary curse damage being deemed not a dot...our damage has been nerfed there as well since we can't invest in thermaturge to get that higher amount of damage. So yeah... think pet builds are done for now.

CC sustain builds may still be viable but we're going to need to highly consider not running shields and instead running hp instead because you can't take an even larger dps hit on a low dps build.

Anyway I think since Stamina sorcs are going to be getting some stuff, Magick sorcs need some attention to their passives and abilities as well.
We have lost our Sorc-ness, and need a new identity. Now personally I kinda like the GW2 idea with the mesmer class... Lots of pets, executes, and CC/bleed/confusion/condition effects to take down opponents. For non pet builds I like the idea of having more AOE static (this is my house) type of damage builds to combat the whole invisible/untargetable/shuffle/shielded builds that are going to be new meta. AS for passives... Anything that gives us more life and more life steal at this point.. we're totally screwed on that end without shields.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @Wrobel
This is where the class is left. Perfectly explains it. Now do something about it.

NativeJoe wrote: »

So just throwing this out there... We're supposed to spam shields constantly... how is this going to work with the poisen system?

...just throwing a little logic out here guys...but while this too doesn't effect people that instantly kill their opponents like gankers, or people that stack attacks like cookie cutter sorcs... but for pet builds, sustain builds, and anything else niche... it's going to be border line unfeasible. And this is just an example... there are stronger poisons out there.

100% agree with the above posts. I've played on and off since beta (70/30 split PVP to PVE). Time to make a Stamina NB and join over half the of the PVP population. That's if I continue to play ESO. The sheer lack of direction, multiple COMPLETE overhauls, and no character progression (Champion Points is an utter failure in my book).

Leave Sorc Ward's at 20 seconds.
Leave Harness Magicka the way it is.
DO NOT change Boneshield to absorb magicka.
Give the Mages Guild skill line a grappling hook like you did the Fighters Guild. (assaulting keeps and other structures will be soooo much fun!)

***Install a major and minor shielding system. Make Sorc ward a Major shield along with HEALING WARD (shields that can absorb both magicka and physical dmg should be Major) the other shields should be minor. ***

Revamp multiple Sorcerer skills and passives. Too many to list without the skills in front of me, but from reading through this thread you'll get the idea.

Character advancement - Make DLC with quest lines to further your class skill lines. Could do this in many ways. Add to the existing skill lines. Create more class skill trees / lines. Have a quest line that FORCES you to choose between 2 new class skill trees, you cannot have both! Do something to make uniqueness amongst the same classes. MAYBE even add a 3rd Morph to skills??

Spend major resources on improving every aspect of the overland PVP. IC will be fun for a little while come DB, but vicious death bombs will get very annoying. Your players LOVE the open world of Cyrodiil.

Sincerely,

Kastor Spiritsong - Beloved Sorcerer of few and Destroyer of many

Valrien · May 2016

Grao · May 2016

klink012 wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

NativeJoe wrote: »

*******************************************************************************************
IF YOU DON"T UNDERSTAND THE ISSUE SORCS ARE HAVING WITH SHIELD REDUCTION AND OTHER NERFS PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A POST STATING YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND. Thanks ~Broken'Stick
*******************************************************************************************

Why is the duration 6 seconds?
Because how long does fear last? right so u shield up. the NB gets a smirk, buffs up, fears you, u run around like and idiot lose ur shields, and he gets his combo in unmitigated. A well timed Dizzy swing and ur on the ground, ult time as soon as the shields expire. IT is basically just a way to give EVERY class their own shot at us without having to go through any mitigation. and lets not forget the dirty little secret of the transmutation set. If you are healed by a person and are wearing 7/7 impen... Sorcs CANNOT heal off you because you are immune to critical strikes. Also with everyone having shields...same issue. So sorcs cannot recover hp.

Why do I personally have an issue with the changes?
It isn't that they Changed just my shields and I'm QQing in the corner. let me try to paint a picture everyone can see.

In pvp... Every class has it's own damage mitigation techniques. NBs can stealth, shuffle, dodge. Dks Traditionally are the tankiest of builds and can mitigate damage greatly; they also get flappy wings to reflect direct damage projectiles such as crystal frags, overload, crushing shock, flame clench, and that sorta thing. Templars can out mitigate, out heal, and have insane resource management to get by, Sorcs have Streak, rune prison, soft CC, and Shields as our Damage mitigation techniques.

A broad description that isn't by any means absolute. or the entire story...but u get the idea...every class has it's own WAY of dealing with heavy damage.

So I'm playing a pet build...doing Awsome btw : https://www.twitch.tv/trixytricks/v/64395447 : And then Zos comes in and goes hey... shield duration reduced by 70%, Your pet curse now is not considered a dot and thus does not benefit from CP in thermaturge (these things are 2 major nerfs to my pets survival, my resource management, my ability to not get randomly ganked, etc) ..... okay awsome..... but they weren't finished. ALSO all shields now protect against all damage, every class can now shield stack, AND we're upping the damage of proxy. (5 pets x 25% more damage + me roughly means im going to take 20k damage from it by myself...if not more) So now all my opponents just got tougher, my dps just got lower, and they put in basically a kill switch to my pet build.

understand a little bit of my frustration here?

By no means is that all they did, nor all they will do... they gotta do something about stamina sorc now...which probably means magicka sorcs of all kinds are about to lose something.

And thats just talking about this specific build. Sorc shield tanks, CC sustain sorc builds, and others are on the chopping block too. It's a wide range of builds that are going to suffer by changing a "class defining" skill.

Why do I have problems with it in pve?
basically our BIS gear (to be remotely competitive) doesn't give HP, and our defenses are paper thin... like unshielded we get one shot thin. So traditionally we used shields so we didn't have to lose THAT much dps by dropping lots of points into hp or jumping heavy armor or the like. Now in pve they are basically making us take off our shields..because there is no way to run molag kena (skills cost 33% more) and do a skill rotation and be spamming shields every 6 seconds. Which means we have to adapt... Maybe slotting a pet in the place of the shield would give enough hp room for templar healer to keep us up...idk but either way it's a massive change to sorcs, and it's a tough bullet to swallow to have to depend on the competency of another for survival.

Why do I feel like a wet noodle next to other classes in the dps role?
have you been in a parse with someone on the higher end of the dps spectrum. aka actually wearing bis gear? a NB or DK can easily pull 50k dps. Templar HEALERS doing their job can do 20k+ dps. Sorcs doing all their rotations, perfectly buffed, and in cookie cutter builds struggle to break 25k.

And remember the other classes shield stacking too...so if your doing the same ur cutting your dps for a no win scenerio. Dk's are now the best shield stackers with flappy wings, thorn shield (reflects 33% damage back), and the fact they can self heal and pretty much already dominated the damage mitigation scene prior to this anyway.

Our shields where donated to the other classes. my honest opinion is to ditch em, and try to go for something else. otherwise it is kinda like the vanilla days of wow...paladin vs paladin.

What else do I hate about DB changes as far as sorcs are concerned?
Currently we lack Complete originality in the area of Stamina sorcs (which use very few class skills and basically just use being a "sorc" as a utility)
And With magicka sorcs being the bottom of the barrel dps wise across the board and the fact our class "unique-ness" has been lost due to the fact everyone is now inheriting our damage mitigation techniques while retaining their own...
Get ganked by a shielded NB from stealth...because you forgot to spam your shield Every 6 seconds while walking around.
Sorcs are no longer the best shielders... DK's are. With flappy wings, thorn shield, and heavy damage mitigation...they're the new kings.
I hate that I'm having to rethink and recraft all my gear now. No longer can I depend on shields to get me through...but im lost as to what to do.
Currently I'm thinking with our shields being reduced to 6 seconds and it just not being feasible to refresh them constantly on a pet build or CC based sustain build for pvp we need to invest in tactics that Don't use shields... for that we basically need to take all points out of magicka and invest in health instead... utilizing the new buffs in heavy armor, and the +8% max hp for having a pet summoned we stack that with entrophy + 8% and we'll see a build that can actually take a hit from enemy players. The problem with this idea is where is our damage coming from, and more importantly how are we sustaining such a build? There is a pvp set that combined with 7/7 impren makes builds uncritable , and therefor we can't rely on critical surge for anything at all. As for our pet... he's 15k hp in DB and shieldless he's pretty much a one shot. But maybe there is a way to mitigate damage enough to let mutagens or something do the work for us.

For pve... shields are pointless, we;re already the lowest dps...refreshing a shield every 6 seconds is absolutely pointless. Infact it is a liability. So we're going to have to rely on healers, Slot a pet instead of a shield for the extra 8% hp (since our best in slot gear doesn't give us hp) and try to do our basic OL set up (molag kena and shield casting every 6 seconds doesn't work, some come DB you have to lose one or the other)

Now here's the thing... these 2 builds are not transferable from one area to the other... therefor I think those of us who do pvp mostly will have to Tank in the pve setting. and those of us pveing mostly will either have to hide in the Zerg and hope to not get hit in the cross fire, or go cookie cutter sorc.(cookie cutter sorc is using burst damage, 1 resto staff, 1 destro staff with trade mark abilities like crushing shock, mines, streak, and frags to destroy opponents)

Niche builds are basically being annihilated by this DB patch...and proxy counting pets as targets and scaling much higher much faster means pet builds are pretty much done in pvp. Also with our primary curse damage being deemed not a dot...our damage has been nerfed there as well since we can't invest in thermaturge to get that higher amount of damage. So yeah... think pet builds are done for now.

CC sustain builds may still be viable but we're going to need to highly consider not running shields and instead running hp instead because you can't take an even larger dps hit on a low dps build.

Anyway I think since Stamina sorcs are going to be getting some stuff, Magick sorcs need some attention to their passives and abilities as well.
We have lost our Sorc-ness, and need a new identity. Now personally I kinda like the GW2 idea with the mesmer class... Lots of pets, executes, and CC/bleed/confusion/condition effects to take down opponents. For non pet builds I like the idea of having more AOE static (this is my house) type of damage builds to combat the whole invisible/untargetable/shuffle/shielded builds that are going to be new meta. AS for passives... Anything that gives us more life and more life steal at this point.. we're totally screwed on that end without shields.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @Wrobel
This is where the class is left. Perfectly explains it. Now do something about it.

NativeJoe wrote: »

So just throwing this out there... We're supposed to spam shields constantly... how is this going to work with the poisen system?

...just throwing a little logic out here guys...but while this too doesn't effect people that instantly kill their opponents like gankers, or people that stack attacks like cookie cutter sorcs... but for pet builds, sustain builds, and anything else niche... it's going to be border line unfeasible. And this is just an example... there are stronger poisons out there.

100% agree with the above posts. I've played on and off since beta (70/30 split PVP to PVE). Time to make a Stamina NB and join over half the of the PVP population. That's if I continue to play ESO. The sheer lack of direction, multiple COMPLETE overhauls, and no character progression (Champion Points is an utter failure in my book).

Leave Sorc Ward's at 20 seconds.
Leave Harness Magicka the way it is.
DO NOT change Boneshield to absorb magicka.
Give the Mages Guild skill line a grappling hook like you did the Fighters Guild. (assaulting keeps and other structures will be soooo much fun!)

***Install a major and minor shielding system. Make Sorc ward a Major shield along with HEALING WARD (shields that can absorb both magicka and physical dmg should be Major) the other shields should be minor. ***

Revamp multiple Sorcerer skills and passives. Too many to list without the skills in front of me, but from reading through this thread you'll get the idea.

Character advancement - Make DLC with quest lines to further your class skill lines. Could do this in many ways. Add to the existing skill lines. Create more class skill trees / lines. Have a quest line that FORCES you to choose between 2 new class skill trees, you cannot have both! Do something to make uniqueness amongst the same classes. MAYBE even add a 3rd Morph to skills??

Spend major resources on improving every aspect of the overland PVP. IC will be fun for a little while come DB, but vicious death bombs will get very annoying. Your players LOVE the open world of Cyrodiil.

Sincerely,

Kastor Spiritsong - Beloved Sorcerer of few and Destroyer of many

You are going a little over board there. I doubt they will give each skill a third morph as that would mean not only considerable scripting changes but also quite a bit of redesigning of the game's UI. Besides, it is not truly necessary, two morphs per skill is definitely enough as long as those morphs are attractive and interesting.

As for improving the PvP environment, I do agree with you, unfortunately that currently seems like a hardware issue more than a scripting problem. The server housing PvP is not powerful enough to handle the rendering of the scenario + all the AoE particles and spell particles when the server is full. The amount of graphic information and the number crunching is just too much. ZoS has been trying different fixes for that, but clearly it isn't an easy to solve problem and upgrading the server, which probably would be the best alternative, is simply too expensive.

Now... About the shields. True, a shield buff system could implemented to prevent or regulate shield stacking, but it would have to be far more complex than you described. First there are two different degrees of shielding, shields provided by Skills and shields provided by Ultimates. Ultimate shields have to be more powerful.

On top of that there are three different kinds of shields, energy shields that absorb all damage, physical shields which block physical damage and magical shields that prevent magical damage. You'd need different buffs for each one of those to maintain diversity between the different shields. Now, it would be possible to make so only one of this 6 could be active at the same time and that would prevent shield stacking, but I am not sure how happy PvPers would be about such change.

NativeJoe · May 2016

Grao wrote: »

wolfninja101b14_ESO wrote: »

I saw the increase of healing done for Dark Exchange and its morphs, but I would really like the cast time to be instant. This way the spell would be a viable self heal in PvP area without needing pets. The Clannfear and Twilight Matriarch heals are awesome and should be kept, but they're better used in PvE instances. Pets in PvP areas are often killed, and the cast time leaves you open. When you dodge roll or evade, the spell isn't carried through, thus not having the pet out for healing. I know both templars and nightblades have good heals, and are often used in PvP. The sorcerer doesn't have such healing.

If reducing the cast time for Dark Exchange and morphs aren't an option, then making pet summoning (after morphing) instant or faster is another possibility. My Clannfear will chase any enemy down, whether I saw them or allies did, but it just dies too often. I'd like to keep my Clannfear on my PvP ability bar, but again, if the cast time leaves me open. The pets have good passives, like restoring magicka and health when killed. Having the pets better suited for PvP instances will also make Daedric Prey, Daedric Curse's morph, more usable too. The time is whatever. The extra 50% damage is what really makes the morph worth it. However, as previously mentioned, the pets die too often and having to constantly resummon them makes me a open target. I'd love the pets to be better used in PvP. They offer so much but in combat sense they're best for PvE.

One more issue with pets!! I don't know if this changed or not, but enemy players can see pets while you're sneaking, thus giving away your position. I know you can sneak around mobs with your pets, but not with enemy players. If this can change, that would be awesome.

Unless that was reverted ZoS made so that pets also stealth when their summoner is in stealth. Of course if the pets Agro on to something or someone their stealth would be broken and likely the summoner's as well. Did you see my list of suggestions for changes above? I must say I don't PvP as much so I am not sure if I did enough to balance what PvP and PvE needs.

Eh my pets don't stealth with me. I've had several players tell me that latly

NativeJoe · May 2016

Grao wrote: »

Mush55 wrote: »

Always thought Liquid lightening was a dot due to it's tiny radius unlike pulsar which actually dose area damage..

So we really dont have an effective aoe as a class skill.

Liquid Lightning and Lightning Flood are AoE DoTs and are considered quite powerful. It coupled with Unstable wall of elements does far more damage than spamming Ele Ring, for instance. If you stack both those AoEs + Lightning Form + Pulsar you will be doing considerable DPS while keeping all mobs debuffed with the 10% Health Reduction.

Throw in the AoE from Volatile Familiar and you get a really powerful AoE build, specially if they buff pets enough so they actually survive fights.

Eh... I wouldn't consider it a "traditional aoe" in the sense I have NEVER killed anyone with it

cpuScientist · May 2016

Grao wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Alright, this took a little while to type down, but here it goes. Sorcerers as I think they should / could be.

Dark Magic

Negate Magic: [As in Live]
Suppression Field: [As in the PTS] Create a globe of magic suppression, dispelling enemy placed effects instantly.
Enemy players will be silenced rather than stunned.
Heals you and your allies standing within the area of effect by X.

Absorption Field: [As in the PTS] Create a globe of magic suppression, dispelling enemy placed effects instantly.
Enemy players will be silenced rather than stunned.
Deals X Magic Damage to enemies standing within the area of effect.

Dark Exchange: Drains an enemy's strength causing X Magic Damage and Healing the caster by Y% of the Damage Caused. (Ranged, instant cast, 3000 – 3500 Magicka cost)
Dark Slash: [Replacing Dark Deal] Drains an enemy's strength causing X Magic Damage and Healing the caster by Y% of the Damage Caused.
Causes Z additional Magic Damage (Melee, instant cast, 3000 – 3500 Magicka cost)

Dark Conversion: Drains an enemy's strength causing X Magic Damage and Healing the caster by Y% of the Damage Caused.
Additionally regains Z% of the Damage caused as Magicka (Increased Range, instant cast, 3000 – 3500 Magicka cost)

Argument: This skill can be balanced to increase Sorcerer Magicka DPS just enough to be in the same level as the other Magicka Builds and Classes. It would replace Force Pulse in our rotation and its numbers could played with to fix the class's sustain issues while also creating diversity by stimulating the creation of a Melee DPS Magicka Sorcerer. At the same time it preserves some of the original essence of Dark Exchange.

Encase:[As in Live]
Shattering Prison: [As in Live]

Restraining Prison: [As in Live]

Rune Prison: [As in Live]
Rune Cage: [As in Live]

Defensive Rune: [As in Live]

Crystal Shard: [As in Live]
Crystal Blade: [Replacing Crystal Blast] Conjure a dark crystal blade and toss it at an enemy, dealing X Physical Damage and stunning them for 2 seconds.
Casting any other Stamina ability has a 35% chance of causing your next Crystal Blade to be instant, cause the target to bleed for Y seconds, and cost 50% less Stamina.

Crystal Fragments: [As in Live]

Daedric Curse: [Swap with Daedric Mines – As in Live]
Daedric Prey: [As in Live]

Velocious Curse: Curses an enemy with a destructive rune dealing X Magic Damage every second and Y Magic Damage to all other nearby enemies after 3.5 seconds.
Has shorter duration and is converted into a true DoT.

Argument: This ability should be swapped with Daedric Mines for a few reasons, the first being both skills are daedric in nature, but Daedric Curse doesn't summon anything and is not affected in anyway by the passives in the Daedric Summoning Tree. Meanwhile curses are considered Dark Magic and Daedric Mines actually does summon something, not to mention certain passives in Summoning Tree could be tinkered to affect that skill positively.

Unholy Knowledge: [As in Live]

Blood Magic: [As in Live ]

Persistence: [As in Live]

Exploitation: [As in Live]

Daedric Summoning

Argument: Allow all Magicka Scaling Pets to gain extra damage from Spell Power and Stamina Pets to gain extra damage from Weapon Power as well. That or simply increase their damage slightly.

Summon Storm Atronach: [As in Live]
Greater Storm Atronach: Summon a storm atronach at the target location. The atronach's arrival deals X Shock Damage and stuns nearby enemies for 3 seconds. The atronach cannot move but attacks the nearest enemy.
An ally can activate Lightning Barrier, granting a energy shield to all allies in range and the atronach absorbing Y damage for 8 seconds. Atronach has increased duration, health and damage.
Upon Synergy activation, grants all allies in range a energy shield (similar to barrier).

Summon Empowering Atronach: Summon a storm atronach at the target location. The atronach's arrival deals X Shock Damage and stuns nearby enemies for 3 seconds. The atronach cannot move but attacks the nearest enemy.
An ally can activate Charged Lightning, giving both the ally, the Atronach's caster and the atronach Major Berserk, increasing their damage by 25% for 8 seconds.
Caster of the Atronach is also granted Major Berserk upon the activation of the Atronach's Synergy. Additionally, the Atronach has a powerful area effect attack.

Argument: One of the things Sorcerers currently lack is useful utility for a raid or dungeon group. Granting Minor Prophecy is simply not enough and I believe Zenimax recognizes such as true as they are buffing Negate. This changes would grant the Atronach more power and interesting utility, the first morph would sacrifice damage to shield the raid and the second morph would empower not only the ally who activated the synergy, but also the sorcerer, helping the sorcerer DPS.

Unstable Familiar: [As in the PTS]*
Summon Unstable Clannfear: Command the powers of Oblivion to send a clannfear to fight at your side. The clannfear's attacks deal X Physical Damage plus an additional 15%.
Once summoned you can activate the clannfear's special ability, tail swiping nearby enemies and taunting the primary target for Y seconds.
The clannfear remains until killed or unsummoned. (Stamina Based)

Summon Volatile Familiar: [As in PTS]*

Bound Armor: Protect yourself with the power of Oblivion, creating a suit of Daedric mail that grants Minor Resolve and Minor Ward, increasing your Armor and Spell Resistance by X.
Bound Armaments: Protect yourself with the power of Oblivion, creating a suit of Daedric mail that grants Minor Resolve and Minor Ward, increasing your Armor and Spell Resistance by X.
The armor also increases your Max Stamina by 5%.
Once summoned you can activate the armament's special ability, granting Minor Berserk, increasing all damage done by 8% for 5 seconds.

Bound Aegis: Protect yourself with the power of Oblivion, creating a suit of Daedric mail that grants Minor Resolve and Minor Ward, increasing your Armor and Spell Resistance by X.
The armor also increases your Max Health by 5%.
Once summoned you can activate the armor's special ability, healing you for 35% of your Maximum Health

Argument: Again, in an effort to diversify builds this skills would support both Stamina and Tanking sorcerers greatly. The self heal removed from Clannfear coupled with the 5% Health increase would make this a useful toggle for Tanks while Minor Berserk would make Bound Armaments tempting not just for Stamina Sorcerers but also for Magicka Sorcerers. The 5% Stamina increase would be very useful for Stam DPS, but would also be tempting for tanks needing additional resources for blocking, etc.

Summon Winged Twilight: [As in PTS]*
Summon Twilight Tormentor: [As in PTS]*

Summon Twilight Matriarch: [As in PTS]*

Daedric Mines: [As in Live]
Daedric Tomb: [As in Live]

Daedric Minefield: [As in Live]

Conjured Ward: Conjures globes of Daedric energy for protection granting you a damage shield that absorbs X damage for 6 seconds and healing your pets for Y.
Hardened Ward: Conjures globes of Daedric energy for protection granting you a damage shield that absorbs X damage for 6 seconds and healing your pets for Y.
While the ward is active, your summoned creatures are immune to damage.
Your damage shield absorbs 30% more damage.

Empowered Ward: Conjures globes of Daedric energy for protection granting you a damage shield that absorbs X damage for 6 seconds and healing your pets for Y.
While the ward is active, your summoned creatures are immune to damage.
This skill also grants Minor Intellect to you and nearby allies, increasing your Magicka Recovery by 10% for 20 seconds and has reduced cost.

Argument: With the changes proposed above and the considerable nerf to all shields in the game this skill needs a few changes to remain viable, not to mention pets need better protection, specially as Sorcerers will no longer be able to maintain their Wards up 100% of the time. The idea here is to use your ward when your pet is going low on health or when you know it and your self are about to get hit with a massive amount of damage. The choice for the sorcerer would then be between having a larger shield or having their shield cost less and provide some minor utility for their allies.

Rebate: When one of your summoned creatures or mines is killed or triggered, you are restored X Magicka.

Power Stone: [As in Live]

Daedric Protection: [As in Live]

Expert Summoner: Grants you 4/8% more maximum magicka whenever you have a Daedric Summoning pet active.

Argument: Not only would this increase sorcerer DPS by increasing the Magicka pool, it would also increase the pet's DPS and thus make them more attractive. This would also help Tank builds that utilize the Clannfear as part of their build.

Storm Calling

Overload: Charge your fists with the power of the storm. Light attacks become lightning bolts, dealing X Shock Damage and 5% additional damage.
Attacks deplete Ultimate until you run out or the ability is toggled off.
Power Overload: Charge your fists with the power of the storm. Light attacks become lightning bolts, dealing X Shock Damage and 10% additional damage.
Attacks deplete Ultimate until you run out or the ability is toggled off.

Energy Overload: Charge your fists with the power of the storm. Light attacks become lightning bolts, dealing X Shock Damage and 5% additional damage.
Attacks deplete Ultimate until you run out or the ability is toggled off and restore X Magicka and / or Stamina.

Argument: First of all, this ultimate is, in my opinion, the best sorcerer ultimate, not only because its potential burst damage but also because it unlocks a third bar. For a class with quite a few toggles, that is quite a useful feature.
That is not to say it doesn't need a few small changes. Nerfs to its damage have made prolonged use of this ultimate less advantageous, so it could use a slight increase in its power. More importantly though, this is a ultimate plagued by bugs, the most annoying one being getting 'stuck' in heavy attack mode. As its heavy attack isn't powerful enough to be used, I propose simply disabling it as it is not truly a feature for the ultimate, but a problem. Power overload should be about making the ultimate more powerful, not about range and energy overload should return the resource that is actually useful to the sorcerer using the ability or simply return both resources.

Mage's Fury: [As in Live]
Mage's Wrath: [As in Live]*

Endless Fury: Call down lightning to strike an enemy for X Shock Damage.
If target enemy's health falls below 20% within 4 seconds, an explosion deals an additional Y Shock Damage to the target and Z Shock Damage to other enemies nearby.
Applies a lighting charge that increases the damage of the next cast of Endless Fury by 10% stacking up to 3 times.

Argument: I think no one will argue that Endless Fury feels lackluster when compared to Mage's Wrath. The use of the skill doesn't feel endless at all as its special trait only activates when you kill your enemy and at least in PvE that usually mean the fight is over and you don't need the very small amount of Magicka it returns. This change would encourage spamming this ability and would be an interesting boost for extra damage against enemies that won't die to just one or two explosions. I also believe Mage's Wrath AoE 'Explosion' could use buffs.

Lightning Form: [As in Live]
Hurricane: [Replacing Thundering Presence] Manifest yourself as lightning to gain Major Resolve and Major Ward, increasing Armor and Spell Resistance by X for 20 seconds.
While active, nearby enemies will take Y Physical Damage each second. The size and damage of the periodic effect increases the longer it is active, going up to 225% more damage and up to 9 meters in size.
Grants the Minor Expedition buff at all times while it is active.

Boundless Storm: [As in Live]*

Argument: The new Stamina morph for this ability seems great, but it does make the Magicka morph feeling very lackluster. Its cost is higher, its damage is weaker and the duration of its speed buff is considerably shorter, even if the buff is more powerful. Yes, the duration is longer which justify the higher cost, but the damage of the Magicka morph for this ability could use some small buff and its range could see a small increase.

Lightning Splash: [As in Live]
Liquid Lightning: [As in Live]*

Lightning Flood: [As in Live]

Argument: This is a good skill, but Liquid Lightning can be tricky to target. I would gladly see that morph lose its AoE aspect and become a more traditional, single target, powerful DoT. It is not a necessary change though.

Surge: [As in the PTS]*
Power Surge: [As in the PTS]*

Critical Surge: [As in the PTS]*

Argument: I heavily dislike some of the changes this skill suffered this last patch, but I believe Zenimax is still working the numbers. Besides, I believe other changes proposed above would take care of the sustain issues the changes to Surge's internal cooldown and heals would cause.

Bolt Escape: [As in Live]*
Streak: [As in Live]*

Ball of lightning: [As in Live]*

Argument: I will admit this is not a skill a use a lot as my enjoyment in PvP tends to fizzle out after fighting the considerable lag of Cyrodill for about an hour. I do believe the stacking cost increase intended to punish repetitive uses of the skill should be balanced out by a damage increase for each repetitive use. The idea is to keep sorcerers from spamming the ability to run away when they are in trouble, but if the sorcerer is using this ability aggressively, that should be rewarded.

Capacitor: [As in Live]

Energized: [As in the PTS]*

Argument: This is a good passive and the change to it adding Physical Damage is a step on the right direction. I'd love to see that damage buff extended to Magic Damage as well or to all Elemental Damage instead of just Shock Damage. Again, with the changes proposed above this may not be needed.

Implosion: [As in the PTS]

Expert Mage: [As in Live]

@Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno
Please take a look at this. Right here would make the Sorc viable and fun to play. We would have group buffs that would make us useful, and have damage and a really good reason to alot pets.

If anything atleast for now make the change with bound armor mines and pet magick passives...

I am glad someone took the time to read all of that >.> Typing all of it and formating it too quite a bit of time

Gotta say it's just about everything I feel we would need. The only added thing is the twilight tormentor sucks as an damage pet. Active skill should be more like inferno for DK. BUT everything you listed is exactly as it should be honestly. Makes us feel like a class on par with everyone else. Gives our Ward good use. But we would not be dependant on it. Gives both Stam and magick an identity with pets, actually support oet play. Puts the mines where it needs to be, and gives us a dot. It's legitimately perfect and should be followed exactly as you have written it.

So seriously @Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno take note!

Grao · May 2016

NativeJoe wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Mush55 wrote: »

Always thought Liquid lightening was a dot due to it's tiny radius unlike pulsar which actually dose area damage..

So we really dont have an effective aoe as a class skill.

Liquid Lightning and Lightning Flood are AoE DoTs and are considered quite powerful. It coupled with Unstable wall of elements does far more damage than spamming Ele Ring, for instance. If you stack both those AoEs + Lightning Form + Pulsar you will be doing considerable DPS while keeping all mobs debuffed with the 10% Health Reduction.

Throw in the AoE from Volatile Familiar and you get a really powerful AoE build, specially if they buff pets enough so they actually survive fights.

Eh... I wouldn't consider it a "traditional aoe" in the sense I have NEVER killed anyone with it

It is not a traditional AoE, but it is still a useful AoE, just line Unstable Wall of Elements. It is not a spell you will spam in an AoE phase but it is a considerable increase in DPS when used in par with Impulse.

Don't forget, Impulse is used by pretty much every Magika build, or at least it used to be. Similarly to Steal Tornado for Stamina Builds.

cpuScientist wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Alright, this took a little while to type down, but here it goes. Sorcerers as I think they should / could be.

Dark Magic

Negate Magic: [As in Live]
Suppression Field: [As in the PTS] Create a globe of magic suppression, dispelling enemy placed effects instantly.
Enemy players will be silenced rather than stunned.
Heals you and your allies standing within the area of effect by X.

Absorption Field: [As in the PTS] Create a globe of magic suppression, dispelling enemy placed effects instantly.
Enemy players will be silenced rather than stunned.
Deals X Magic Damage to enemies standing within the area of effect.

Dark Exchange: Drains an enemy's strength causing X Magic Damage and Healing the caster by Y% of the Damage Caused. (Ranged, instant cast, 3000 – 3500 Magicka cost)
Dark Slash: [Replacing Dark Deal] Drains an enemy's strength causing X Magic Damage and Healing the caster by Y% of the Damage Caused.
Causes Z additional Magic Damage (Melee, instant cast, 3000 – 3500 Magicka cost)

Dark Conversion: Drains an enemy's strength causing X Magic Damage and Healing the caster by Y% of the Damage Caused.
Additionally regains Z% of the Damage caused as Magicka (Increased Range, instant cast, 3000 – 3500 Magicka cost)

Argument: This skill can be balanced to increase Sorcerer Magicka DPS just enough to be in the same level as the other Magicka Builds and Classes. It would replace Force Pulse in our rotation and its numbers could played with to fix the class's sustain issues while also creating diversity by stimulating the creation of a Melee DPS Magicka Sorcerer. At the same time it preserves some of the original essence of Dark Exchange.

Encase:[As in Live]
Shattering Prison: [As in Live]

Restraining Prison: [As in Live]

Rune Prison: [As in Live]
Rune Cage: [As in Live]

Defensive Rune: [As in Live]

Crystal Shard: [As in Live]
Crystal Blade: [Replacing Crystal Blast] Conjure a dark crystal blade and toss it at an enemy, dealing X Physical Damage and stunning them for 2 seconds.
Casting any other Stamina ability has a 35% chance of causing your next Crystal Blade to be instant, cause the target to bleed for Y seconds, and cost 50% less Stamina.

Crystal Fragments: [As in Live]

Daedric Curse: [Swap with Daedric Mines – As in Live]
Daedric Prey: [As in Live]

Velocious Curse: Curses an enemy with a destructive rune dealing X Magic Damage every second and Y Magic Damage to all other nearby enemies after 3.5 seconds.
Has shorter duration and is converted into a true DoT.

Argument: This ability should be swapped with Daedric Mines for a few reasons, the first being both skills are daedric in nature, but Daedric Curse doesn't summon anything and is not affected in anyway by the passives in the Daedric Summoning Tree. Meanwhile curses are considered Dark Magic and Daedric Mines actually does summon something, not to mention certain passives in Summoning Tree could be tinkered to affect that skill positively.

Unholy Knowledge: [As in Live]

Blood Magic: [As in Live ]

Persistence: [As in Live]

Exploitation: [As in Live]

Daedric Summoning

Argument: Allow all Magicka Scaling Pets to gain extra damage from Spell Power and Stamina Pets to gain extra damage from Weapon Power as well. That or simply increase their damage slightly.

Summon Storm Atronach: [As in Live]
Greater Storm Atronach: Summon a storm atronach at the target location. The atronach's arrival deals X Shock Damage and stuns nearby enemies for 3 seconds. The atronach cannot move but attacks the nearest enemy.
An ally can activate Lightning Barrier, granting a energy shield to all allies in range and the atronach absorbing Y damage for 8 seconds. Atronach has increased duration, health and damage.
Upon Synergy activation, grants all allies in range a energy shield (similar to barrier).

Summon Empowering Atronach: Summon a storm atronach at the target location. The atronach's arrival deals X Shock Damage and stuns nearby enemies for 3 seconds. The atronach cannot move but attacks the nearest enemy.
An ally can activate Charged Lightning, giving both the ally, the Atronach's caster and the atronach Major Berserk, increasing their damage by 25% for 8 seconds.
Caster of the Atronach is also granted Major Berserk upon the activation of the Atronach's Synergy. Additionally, the Atronach has a powerful area effect attack.

Argument: One of the things Sorcerers currently lack is useful utility for a raid or dungeon group. Granting Minor Prophecy is simply not enough and I believe Zenimax recognizes such as true as they are buffing Negate. This changes would grant the Atronach more power and interesting utility, the first morph would sacrifice damage to shield the raid and the second morph would empower not only the ally who activated the synergy, but also the sorcerer, helping the sorcerer DPS.

Unstable Familiar: [As in the PTS]*
Summon Unstable Clannfear: Command the powers of Oblivion to send a clannfear to fight at your side. The clannfear's attacks deal X Physical Damage plus an additional 15%.
Once summoned you can activate the clannfear's special ability, tail swiping nearby enemies and taunting the primary target for Y seconds.
The clannfear remains until killed or unsummoned. (Stamina Based)

Summon Volatile Familiar: [As in PTS]*

Bound Armor: Protect yourself with the power of Oblivion, creating a suit of Daedric mail that grants Minor Resolve and Minor Ward, increasing your Armor and Spell Resistance by X.
Bound Armaments: Protect yourself with the power of Oblivion, creating a suit of Daedric mail that grants Minor Resolve and Minor Ward, increasing your Armor and Spell Resistance by X.
The armor also increases your Max Stamina by 5%.
Once summoned you can activate the armament's special ability, granting Minor Berserk, increasing all damage done by 8% for 5 seconds.

Bound Aegis: Protect yourself with the power of Oblivion, creating a suit of Daedric mail that grants Minor Resolve and Minor Ward, increasing your Armor and Spell Resistance by X.
The armor also increases your Max Health by 5%.
Once summoned you can activate the armor's special ability, healing you for 35% of your Maximum Health

Argument: Again, in an effort to diversify builds this skills would support both Stamina and Tanking sorcerers greatly. The self heal removed from Clannfear coupled with the 5% Health increase would make this a useful toggle for Tanks while Minor Berserk would make Bound Armaments tempting not just for Stamina Sorcerers but also for Magicka Sorcerers. The 5% Stamina increase would be very useful for Stam DPS, but would also be tempting for tanks needing additional resources for blocking, etc.

Summon Winged Twilight: [As in PTS]*
Summon Twilight Tormentor: [As in PTS]*

Summon Twilight Matriarch: [As in PTS]*

Daedric Mines: [As in Live]
Daedric Tomb: [As in Live]

Daedric Minefield: [As in Live]

Conjured Ward: Conjures globes of Daedric energy for protection granting you a damage shield that absorbs X damage for 6 seconds and healing your pets for Y.
Hardened Ward: Conjures globes of Daedric energy for protection granting you a damage shield that absorbs X damage for 6 seconds and healing your pets for Y.
While the ward is active, your summoned creatures are immune to damage.
Your damage shield absorbs 30% more damage.

Empowered Ward: Conjures globes of Daedric energy for protection granting you a damage shield that absorbs X damage for 6 seconds and healing your pets for Y.
While the ward is active, your summoned creatures are immune to damage.
This skill also grants Minor Intellect to you and nearby allies, increasing your Magicka Recovery by 10% for 20 seconds and has reduced cost.

Argument: With the changes proposed above and the considerable nerf to all shields in the game this skill needs a few changes to remain viable, not to mention pets need better protection, specially as Sorcerers will no longer be able to maintain their Wards up 100% of the time. The idea here is to use your ward when your pet is going low on health or when you know it and your self are about to get hit with a massive amount of damage. The choice for the sorcerer would then be between having a larger shield or having their shield cost less and provide some minor utility for their allies.

Rebate: When one of your summoned creatures or mines is killed or triggered, you are restored X Magicka.

Power Stone: [As in Live]

Daedric Protection: [As in Live]

Expert Summoner: Grants you 4/8% more maximum magicka whenever you have a Daedric Summoning pet active.

Argument: Not only would this increase sorcerer DPS by increasing the Magicka pool, it would also increase the pet's DPS and thus make them more attractive. This would also help Tank builds that utilize the Clannfear as part of their build.

Storm Calling

Overload: Charge your fists with the power of the storm. Light attacks become lightning bolts, dealing X Shock Damage and 5% additional damage.
Attacks deplete Ultimate until you run out or the ability is toggled off.
Power Overload: Charge your fists with the power of the storm. Light attacks become lightning bolts, dealing X Shock Damage and 10% additional damage.
Attacks deplete Ultimate until you run out or the ability is toggled off.

Energy Overload: Charge your fists with the power of the storm. Light attacks become lightning bolts, dealing X Shock Damage and 5% additional damage.
Attacks deplete Ultimate until you run out or the ability is toggled off and restore X Magicka and / or Stamina.

Argument: First of all, this ultimate is, in my opinion, the best sorcerer ultimate, not only because its potential burst damage but also because it unlocks a third bar. For a class with quite a few toggles, that is quite a useful feature.
That is not to say it doesn't need a few small changes. Nerfs to its damage have made prolonged use of this ultimate less advantageous, so it could use a slight increase in its power. More importantly though, this is a ultimate plagued by bugs, the most annoying one being getting 'stuck' in heavy attack mode. As its heavy attack isn't powerful enough to be used, I propose simply disabling it as it is not truly a feature for the ultimate, but a problem. Power overload should be about making the ultimate more powerful, not about range and energy overload should return the resource that is actually useful to the sorcerer using the ability or simply return both resources.

Mage's Fury: [As in Live]
Mage's Wrath: [As in Live]*

Endless Fury: Call down lightning to strike an enemy for X Shock Damage.
If target enemy's health falls below 20% within 4 seconds, an explosion deals an additional Y Shock Damage to the target and Z Shock Damage to other enemies nearby.
Applies a lighting charge that increases the damage of the next cast of Endless Fury by 10% stacking up to 3 times.

Argument: I think no one will argue that Endless Fury feels lackluster when compared to Mage's Wrath. The use of the skill doesn't feel endless at all as its special trait only activates when you kill your enemy and at least in PvE that usually mean the fight is over and you don't need the very small amount of Magicka it returns. This change would encourage spamming this ability and would be an interesting boost for extra damage against enemies that won't die to just one or two explosions. I also believe Mage's Wrath AoE 'Explosion' could use buffs.

Lightning Form: [As in Live]
Hurricane: [Replacing Thundering Presence] Manifest yourself as lightning to gain Major Resolve and Major Ward, increasing Armor and Spell Resistance by X for 20 seconds.
While active, nearby enemies will take Y Physical Damage each second. The size and damage of the periodic effect increases the longer it is active, going up to 225% more damage and up to 9 meters in size.
Grants the Minor Expedition buff at all times while it is active.

Boundless Storm: [As in Live]*

Argument: The new Stamina morph for this ability seems great, but it does make the Magicka morph feeling very lackluster. Its cost is higher, its damage is weaker and the duration of its speed buff is considerably shorter, even if the buff is more powerful. Yes, the duration is longer which justify the higher cost, but the damage of the Magicka morph for this ability could use some small buff and its range could see a small increase.

Lightning Splash: [As in Live]
Liquid Lightning: [As in Live]*

Lightning Flood: [As in Live]

Argument: This is a good skill, but Liquid Lightning can be tricky to target. I would gladly see that morph lose its AoE aspect and become a more traditional, single target, powerful DoT. It is not a necessary change though.

Surge: [As in the PTS]*
Power Surge: [As in the PTS]*

Critical Surge: [As in the PTS]*

Argument: I heavily dislike some of the changes this skill suffered this last patch, but I believe Zenimax is still working the numbers. Besides, I believe other changes proposed above would take care of the sustain issues the changes to Surge's internal cooldown and heals would cause.

Bolt Escape: [As in Live]*
Streak: [As in Live]*

Ball of lightning: [As in Live]*

Argument: I will admit this is not a skill a use a lot as my enjoyment in PvP tends to fizzle out after fighting the considerable lag of Cyrodill for about an hour. I do believe the stacking cost increase intended to punish repetitive uses of the skill should be balanced out by a damage increase for each repetitive use. The idea is to keep sorcerers from spamming the ability to run away when they are in trouble, but if the sorcerer is using this ability aggressively, that should be rewarded.

Capacitor: [As in Live]

Energized: [As in the PTS]*

Argument: This is a good passive and the change to it adding Physical Damage is a step on the right direction. I'd love to see that damage buff extended to Magic Damage as well or to all Elemental Damage instead of just Shock Damage. Again, with the changes proposed above this may not be needed.

Implosion: [As in the PTS]

Expert Mage: [As in Live]

@Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno
Please take a look at this. Right here would make the Sorc viable and fun to play. We would have group buffs that would make us useful, and have damage and a really good reason to alot pets.

If anything atleast for now make the change with bound armor mines and pet magick passives...

I am glad someone took the time to read all of that >.> Typing all of it and formating it too quite a bit of time

Gotta say it's just about everything I feel we would need. The only added thing is the twilight tormentor sucks as an damage pet. Active skill should be more like inferno for DK. BUT everything you listed is exactly as it should be honestly. Makes us feel like a class on par with everyone else. Gives our Ward good use. But we would not be dependant on it. Gives both Stam and magick an identity with pets, actually support oet play. Puts the mines where it needs to be, and gives us a dot. It's legitimately perfect and should be followed exactly as you have written it.

So seriously @Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno take note!

Thanks! I really do hope they read it and that it gets to @Wrobel's hands...
As for the Tormentor's Active ability, I can see how you could think it is underwhelming, but I don't believe it is under powered. Coupled with Daedric Prey that active would have the Twilight causing 105% extra damage which is quite a boost if the pet's original DPS is already strong. To help with that base damage our mana pool would be further increased from 5% to 8% and pet attacks should also benefit from the Lightning Tree Passives giving them extra shock damage, physical damage and a chance to incinerate.

EDIT: I even made up a build in my head using those changes that would be so awesome for PvE T_T

cpuScientist · May 2016

At the very least though, I maintain its weak. However that is a lackluster ability, is they must keep it, either drop the cap down to extend danger until 20% so it's synergises with our execute or bring plot execute up to 50% tho start using it.

cpuScientist · May 2016

Also 100% of a low value is still a low value lol

MercTheMage · May 2016

So you're effectively killing off sorcerers. Oh? What's that, "Stam Sorcs"?
Yeah, cause that's what we all think of when we hear the word "Sorcerer"... Someone physical... That's not completely *** ridiculous at all...

You idiots are quick to nerf anything sorc related when some little *** complains about it being OP and unfair, but do you fix the actual problems with ESO? Noooo.
On that note, I have a solution to the biggest one...
A NEW DEVELOPER!!!

I 100% agree with everything said by @LordSidious

LordSidious wrote: »

Dear ZOS,

Due to your inability to effectively listen to feedback, develop an enhanced gameplay experience, and seek counsel from the community, we cast a vote of no-confidence in your ability to develop and support this title.

We may not be your shareholders, investors, or executives, but we are your customers. Customers that you painfully ignore since it's clear that any decision maker within your organization is out of touch with the community in which they make their living off of. It is clear that this studio was not ready to take on the task of expanding the experience of the Elder Scrolls universe.

Your community will crumble as AAA titles that are supported and driven by their fanbase take your customers away. The fact that you create an official feedback thread and not even provide a single reply shows how insignificant feedback is to the development of your product.

Sincerely,

A Sorcerer

I think I speak for all of Sorcdom when I say Screw you, you suck! You suck big, sweaty, hairy orc balls.

Grao · May 2016

cpuScientist wrote: »

At the very least though, I maintain its weak. However that is a lackluster ability, is they must keep it, either drop the cap down to extend danger until 20% so it's synergises with our execute or bring plot execute up to 50% tho start using it.

Yes, that is actually something I considered. Changing the cap to 20% and I almost did in the build, but I think numbers would need to be tweaked a lot, not only for the pets but for several of those skills so the class didn't went from under powered to over powered and needing nerfs. At the end of the day the pet attacking needs to be thought of as a DoT that is constantly ticking, it can't be too powerful, it is not there to be your main source of damage, it just there to give you a help.

What my bars would look like:

Bar 1: Dark Slash / Crystal Fragments / Daedric Prey / Inner Light / Twilight Tormentor / Power or Energy Overload
Bar 2: Unstable Wall of Elements / Elemental Ring / Liquid Lightning / (?) / Twilight Tormentor / Greater Atronach or Absorption Field
Overload Bar: Endless Fury / Power Surge / Boundless Storm / Empowered Ward / Twilight Tormentor / Overload

THe free slot on Bar 2 can be several things, from Rapid if the raid needs it, Volatile Familiar in heavy AoE situations, Elemental Drain. I am very tempted to work a few of those skills out and have Bound Armaments on for Minor Berserk, but I'd need to run tests. Weapons would be either Dual Wield Swords or Two Handed Sword for bar 1 and Lightning Staff for bar 2 causing all lightning DoTs to cause even more damage thanks to the passives in the Storm Calling Tree.

Grao · May 2016

MercTheMage wrote: »

So you're effectively killing off sorcerers. Oh? What's that, "Stam Sorcs"?
Yeah, cause that's what we all think of when we hear the word "Sorcerer"... Someone physical... That's not completely *** ridiculous at all...

You idiots are quick to nerf anything sorc related when some little *** complains about it being OP and unfair, but do you fix the actual problems with ESO? Noooo.
On that note, I have a solution to the biggest one...
A NEW DEVELOPER!!!

I 100% agree with everything said by @LordSidious

LordSidious wrote: »

Dear ZOS,

Due to your inability to effectively listen to feedback, develop an enhanced gameplay experience, and seek counsel from the community, we cast a vote of no-confidence in your ability to develop and support this title.

We may not be your shareholders, investors, or executives, but we are your customers. Customers that you painfully ignore since it's clear that any decision maker within your organization is out of touch with the community in which they make their living off of. It is clear that this studio was not ready to take on the task of expanding the experience of the Elder Scrolls universe.

Your community will crumble as AAA titles that are supported and driven by their fanbase take your customers away. The fact that you create an official feedback thread and not even provide a single reply shows how insignificant feedback is to the development of your product.

Sincerely,

A Sorcerer

I think I speak for all of Sorcdom when I say Screw you, you suck! You suck big, sweaty, hairy orc balls.

Again, there is base in the Elder Scrolls Lore for a Stamina user Sorcerer. Unfortunately what the lore describes is simply not possible for an MMO, in ES sorcerers are weapon wielders, heavy armored, sustain damage dealers with potential for split second bursts of damage. That is simply too powerful for an MMO, besides, though Sorcerers in ES usually wield heavy armor and blades, they are also the class with the highest Magicka pool, indicating that though they use stamina to operate their weapons a considerable amount of their damage is done by casting spells on the enemy and buffing the sorcerers own powers.

It is possible though, to make stamina sorcerers in ESO more viable (even if not absolutely Lore faithful) by changing a few of our passives and active abilities. We have quite a few useless skills that can be reworked to benefit stamina users, if you have the patience and time to read over all my suggestions a few posts back. All you have to do is keep in mind there are other possible builds while balancing everything.

Mush55 · May 2016

Mush55 wrote: »

Always thought Liquid lightening was a dot due to it's tiny radius unlike pulsar which actually dose area damage..

Grao wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ops.

Valrien wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Mush55 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

potirondb16_ESO wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

kmatt wrote: »

STAM MORPH OF OVERLOAD,

Failing that change how Ultimats work so if its scaling off Stam it does physical damage and if its scaling off magic do magic damage for all class skills, this means that the champion point system works for your build.

Stam sorc needs some love still although hurricane is some nice improvement to its damage it has lost its utility of movement speed which was a big reason to use.

Again ill ask for the "Stone Shard" morph that is the Stam version of the morph we already have that adds a little AoE.

Last thing to say, make the passives useful as a stam sorc half of them are useless and no point taking & now with fighters guild changes we are punished for using our own class skills over fighters guild skills. Something like Major mending when dadric summoning skill is slotted, or at least change the pet passives to be useful to some extent without pets.

Stam Sorc is actually in a far better place than Mag. Sorc. now.

You guys deserve the boost FINALLY, and if other tweaks would further improve your lot - then by all means ask for them.

I would appreciate it if you could also comment on the Mag. Sorcs. nerfs however, as this is the overall Sorc. thread, and Stam. Sorcs. have the benefit of their own exclusive thread to feedback on.

id rather not have to 'donate' skills to a niche build that contridicts the purpose of a sorcerer, who is a master of magic. Mag sorc should be better, in most respects, to stam sorc. you guys want a buff? you should be calling for duel scaling, like the skills scale off your highest stat.

I'd rather not read another one of this ignorant post from someone who has no idea what an Elder Scrolls Sorcerer is. You should go do some research before you dismiss my class that is just a lore friendly as yours. Additionally, don't tell me what buffs I should be asking for if you've never played my class, dual scaling is just a terrible idea.

Oblivion Sorcerer

Morrowind Sorcerer

Have you even read those links you sent? I do agree that stamina sorcerers are something in the Elder Scroll's world, but as the game currently is set up, it is not at all like the Lore. First of all, stamina sorcerers in ESO are forced into medium armor, which they really didn't use that much on the other ES games. That affects how well sorcerers can shield them selves and absorb magika which is one of the class hugest features in the previous games. Also, because you are using medium armor your magika pool, which should be the largest in the game according to all Lore, will be shot... Because otherwise you will have no damage behind your abilities.

ESO can't conform perfectly to the other ES games because it is MMO. It needs a different sort of balancing and I am sorry... MMO wise, sorcerers are primarily magic casters. Just like Nightblades are assassins and thus the class to go for stamina builds, just templars are supposed to the best healers and DK the best tanks. I understand wanting stamina sorcerers to be more viable, but doing so at the expense of the class losing its magika orientation is idiotic at best. For a long time sorcerers have had the worst DPS in general and near to no utility and this patch is only making things worse, at least for Magika sorcerers.

You are absolutely correct. This is an MMO, and because it's an MMO every single class needs to be equally viable. This includes Stam Sorcs. Furthermore, why are we the only class that has to put up with this amount of stupidity? I don't ever see Magic Templars telling Stam Templars that they have no right to exist.

No... I am sorry... You are just wrong... The majority of the MMOs have each class very specialized. Viable only means it is playable, not that playing it will give you awesome results. I am not saying Stamina Sorcerers have no right to exist, I fully support you guys as long as buffing your side of things doesn't mean more nerfs to the Magika sorcerer builds. Unfortunately it seems Zenimax can't do that!

As for why you don't have to deal with this sort of comment on other classes threads, well maybe it is because their class doesn't already suck! Templar are still the best healers in the game, which fits the MMO Meta for the class. DKs are still the best Tanks and Nightblades are still the best Stamina DPS. Unfortunately Sorcerers are the Worst Magika DPS currently in the game instead of the best... That is why we don't need more nerfs so Stamina Sorcs can be better!

Also, I was arguing against your Lore argument that Stamina sorcerers exist in Elder Scrolls because you will never be able to get good results with the same sort of build we used in the other games while playing ESO. Gods know I tried. I started playing as a sorcerer with heavy armor and a two handed sword that focused most of the points in having a huge magika pool... Exactly like the other Elder Scrolls games... Guess how well that worked?

Actually a vast majority of MMOs don't have very specialized classes anymore. Once Blizzard realized people don't like to pigeonholed into a single specific roll because of the class they chose pretty much every company since has followed suit. In most MMOs today nearly every class has at least one viable dps spec.

No viable means the class is capable of performing well enough to be brought into endgame content. Go ask someone that has cleared Vet MoL if they would take a Stam Sorc with them over any other class including Magic Sorc. We have the worst DPS and bring no group utility. We are not currently a viable endgame trial class.

Depending on the content your running NBs are actually far better healers than Templars. Stam DKs are the best stam DPS class, and probably have the highest DPS out of all eight classes. Additionally, the Elder Scrolls lore supports Magic NBs far better than Stam NBs. None of that actually explains why we have to put up with so many ignorant people.

Attacking Stam Sorcs will get you no where. Instead why don't you focus on changes that will improve Magic Sorcs. I'll give you some ideas. Revamp Overload this skill is the reason your sustained DPS is the lowest Magic DPS in MoL. Fight this terrible Surge change. Get Dark Exchange to be actually usable. Get a complete class passive revamp; we have the worst for magic and stam.

And WTF are you talking about??? Overload is the only Ultimate in the sorcerer class that is still useful. Atronach is stupid and doesn't DPS nearly enough and Negate was nerfed to near nonexistence! Revamp overload, you are only suggesting that because you want overload to have a freaking stamina special morph!

Overload is a terrible ultimate, and the reason Magic Sorcs have such low DPS in long fights. I want nothing to do with Overload in it's current form, even if we were given a stamina morph. I hated the skill when I played on my Magic Sorc as well. So don't assume you know why I'm suggesting something. If you know anything about Magic Sorc DPS then you will know that using Overload in a fight that is about 3+ minutes long is a huge DPS loss over using Meteor. However, when using Overload on short duration fights Magic Sorcs have the highest DPS. This is one of the main reason people dismiss Magic Sorcs when you ask for DPS increases. Getting Overload exchanged for some sustained DPS is the best way to help this class, other than removing the pets.

Overload should be reworked to be an instant cast, single target, low cost ultimate. Once this happens the class can be balanced properly.

Yes, remove sorcerer's only ultimate that still have uses instead of removing dark exchange, a useless ability not even 1% of the sorcs ever slots in their bars. You clearly know what you are talking about.

To fix the sustained DPS issue for magika sorcs Dark Exchange should be reworked in a spam-able spell with a melee and a ranged morph to untie the class from always needing Force Pulse and Destro Staff. With such an ability available Zenimax could easily mess with the number till they got sorcer DPS up to par with the other magika DPSs without buffing the other classes as well and without causing too much disturbance in PvP.

It would also help with self healing as every activation of our spam-able ability would proc Blood Magic, healing the caster. Pets don't need to be removed, they need a few reworks, that is all.

As far as magika sorc goes, simply modify the Proc chance of Crystal blast and you got it, but that has repercussion upon pvp a LOT. That's why I think it should be look at from a diversification of the build perspecive.

Add a class AOE that we can use, help people get rid of Bound Armor by giving the magika bonus somewhere else and let us use some much needed versatility.

Maybe an Aoe with the same type of mechanic as Healing Spring but for Domage.Something to spam when needed that we can put Inside our offbar.

We have a class AoE that is actually considered pretty good, if you can target it >.>.

What is this class aoe ?

Liquid Lightning / Lightning Flood
AoE Negate
AoE Atronach
Volatile Familiar's active ability
Mage's Wrath and morph's explosion
Daedric Curse

Those are all class skills with AoE Effects.

1's a pet (non-Ulti), 2 are Ultimates (not very good ones either), 1's an execute (not a very good one either), Curse does laughable splash damage, and Liquid Lightning is probably the best AoE DoT.

I agree they are not awesome skills, but they can still supplement a weapon AoE pretty decently. I also forgot Lightning form which is also a powerful AoE DoT and the Stamina morph was heavily buffed. I have hopes they will also increase the damage of the Magicka morph.

No they can't lol. The pet at endgame does half the aoe damage of impulse. And it requires triple slotting. An execute that triggers at 20% come on. ULTIMATES are not part of the conversation especially when they cost 150+ to whip out. Curse blows up after 3.5-6 seconds no bueno and the damage is laughable.

However I did find me a way to make it work that does not involve impulse but still relies on destro staves. Face it we are tied to destro for AOE and single target.

LOL we neeeeeed destro so bad we might aswell have a passive boosting destro use. It is 100% part of the Sorc.

Well's you'd only have that pet for AoE fights against mobs, so you wouldn't need to triple slot it and while it doesn't do as much damage as impulse, it coupled with unstable wall of elements, liquid lighting, lighting form and Pulsar would do significant damage.

You are right about us being heavily tied to Destro Staves though. Even with the changes I proposed we'd still need it for supplemental AoE damage.

But liquid lightening is no good in a mobile fight only good for static ones when it becomes quite powerful, pets are stupid and unreliable and I refuse to use them.

Agree with out the destro line we are pretty dire, my mage blade I use more now as it has it actually brings some usefulness to my group .and is not reliant on one skill to do good damage

Grao · May 2016

Mush55 wrote: »

Mush55 wrote: »

Always thought Liquid lightening was a dot due to it's tiny radius unlike pulsar which actually dose area damage..

Grao wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ops.

Valrien wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Mush55 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

potirondb16_ESO wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

kmatt wrote: »

STAM MORPH OF OVERLOAD,

Failing that change how Ultimats work so if its scaling off Stam it does physical damage and if its scaling off magic do magic damage for all class skills, this means that the champion point system works for your build.

Stam sorc needs some love still although hurricane is some nice improvement to its damage it has lost its utility of movement speed which was a big reason to use.

Again ill ask for the "Stone Shard" morph that is the Stam version of the morph we already have that adds a little AoE.

Last thing to say, make the passives useful as a stam sorc half of them are useless and no point taking & now with fighters guild changes we are punished for using our own class skills over fighters guild skills. Something like Major mending when dadric summoning skill is slotted, or at least change the pet passives to be useful to some extent without pets.

Stam Sorc is actually in a far better place than Mag. Sorc. now.

You guys deserve the boost FINALLY, and if other tweaks would further improve your lot - then by all means ask for them.

I would appreciate it if you could also comment on the Mag. Sorcs. nerfs however, as this is the overall Sorc. thread, and Stam. Sorcs. have the benefit of their own exclusive thread to feedback on.

id rather not have to 'donate' skills to a niche build that contridicts the purpose of a sorcerer, who is a master of magic. Mag sorc should be better, in most respects, to stam sorc. you guys want a buff? you should be calling for duel scaling, like the skills scale off your highest stat.

I'd rather not read another one of this ignorant post from someone who has no idea what an Elder Scrolls Sorcerer is. You should go do some research before you dismiss my class that is just a lore friendly as yours. Additionally, don't tell me what buffs I should be asking for if you've never played my class, dual scaling is just a terrible idea.

Oblivion Sorcerer

Morrowind Sorcerer

Have you even read those links you sent? I do agree that stamina sorcerers are something in the Elder Scroll's world, but as the game currently is set up, it is not at all like the Lore. First of all, stamina sorcerers in ESO are forced into medium armor, which they really didn't use that much on the other ES games. That affects how well sorcerers can shield them selves and absorb magika which is one of the class hugest features in the previous games. Also, because you are using medium armor your magika pool, which should be the largest in the game according to all Lore, will be shot... Because otherwise you will have no damage behind your abilities.

ESO can't conform perfectly to the other ES games because it is MMO. It needs a different sort of balancing and I am sorry... MMO wise, sorcerers are primarily magic casters. Just like Nightblades are assassins and thus the class to go for stamina builds, just templars are supposed to the best healers and DK the best tanks. I understand wanting stamina sorcerers to be more viable, but doing so at the expense of the class losing its magika orientation is idiotic at best. For a long time sorcerers have had the worst DPS in general and near to no utility and this patch is only making things worse, at least for Magika sorcerers.

You are absolutely correct. This is an MMO, and because it's an MMO every single class needs to be equally viable. This includes Stam Sorcs. Furthermore, why are we the only class that has to put up with this amount of stupidity? I don't ever see Magic Templars telling Stam Templars that they have no right to exist.

No... I am sorry... You are just wrong... The majority of the MMOs have each class very specialized. Viable only means it is playable, not that playing it will give you awesome results. I am not saying Stamina Sorcerers have no right to exist, I fully support you guys as long as buffing your side of things doesn't mean more nerfs to the Magika sorcerer builds. Unfortunately it seems Zenimax can't do that!

As for why you don't have to deal with this sort of comment on other classes threads, well maybe it is because their class doesn't already suck! Templar are still the best healers in the game, which fits the MMO Meta for the class. DKs are still the best Tanks and Nightblades are still the best Stamina DPS. Unfortunately Sorcerers are the Worst Magika DPS currently in the game instead of the best... That is why we don't need more nerfs so Stamina Sorcs can be better!

Also, I was arguing against your Lore argument that Stamina sorcerers exist in Elder Scrolls because you will never be able to get good results with the same sort of build we used in the other games while playing ESO. Gods know I tried. I started playing as a sorcerer with heavy armor and a two handed sword that focused most of the points in having a huge magika pool... Exactly like the other Elder Scrolls games... Guess how well that worked?

Actually a vast majority of MMOs don't have very specialized classes anymore. Once Blizzard realized people don't like to pigeonholed into a single specific roll because of the class they chose pretty much every company since has followed suit. In most MMOs today nearly every class has at least one viable dps spec.

No viable means the class is capable of performing well enough to be brought into endgame content. Go ask someone that has cleared Vet MoL if they would take a Stam Sorc with them over any other class including Magic Sorc. We have the worst DPS and bring no group utility. We are not currently a viable endgame trial class.

Depending on the content your running NBs are actually far better healers than Templars. Stam DKs are the best stam DPS class, and probably have the highest DPS out of all eight classes. Additionally, the Elder Scrolls lore supports Magic NBs far better than Stam NBs. None of that actually explains why we have to put up with so many ignorant people.

Attacking Stam Sorcs will get you no where. Instead why don't you focus on changes that will improve Magic Sorcs. I'll give you some ideas. Revamp Overload this skill is the reason your sustained DPS is the lowest Magic DPS in MoL. Fight this terrible Surge change. Get Dark Exchange to be actually usable. Get a complete class passive revamp; we have the worst for magic and stam.

And WTF are you talking about??? Overload is the only Ultimate in the sorcerer class that is still useful. Atronach is stupid and doesn't DPS nearly enough and Negate was nerfed to near nonexistence! Revamp overload, you are only suggesting that because you want overload to have a freaking stamina special morph!

Overload is a terrible ultimate, and the reason Magic Sorcs have such low DPS in long fights. I want nothing to do with Overload in it's current form, even if we were given a stamina morph. I hated the skill when I played on my Magic Sorc as well. So don't assume you know why I'm suggesting something. If you know anything about Magic Sorc DPS then you will know that using Overload in a fight that is about 3+ minutes long is a huge DPS loss over using Meteor. However, when using Overload on short duration fights Magic Sorcs have the highest DPS. This is one of the main reason people dismiss Magic Sorcs when you ask for DPS increases. Getting Overload exchanged for some sustained DPS is the best way to help this class, other than removing the pets.

Overload should be reworked to be an instant cast, single target, low cost ultimate. Once this happens the class can be balanced properly.

Yes, remove sorcerer's only ultimate that still have uses instead of removing dark exchange, a useless ability not even 1% of the sorcs ever slots in their bars. You clearly know what you are talking about.

To fix the sustained DPS issue for magika sorcs Dark Exchange should be reworked in a spam-able spell with a melee and a ranged morph to untie the class from always needing Force Pulse and Destro Staff. With such an ability available Zenimax could easily mess with the number till they got sorcer DPS up to par with the other magika DPSs without buffing the other classes as well and without causing too much disturbance in PvP.

It would also help with self healing as every activation of our spam-able ability would proc Blood Magic, healing the caster. Pets don't need to be removed, they need a few reworks, that is all.

As far as magika sorc goes, simply modify the Proc chance of Crystal blast and you got it, but that has repercussion upon pvp a LOT. That's why I think it should be look at from a diversification of the build perspecive.

Add a class AOE that we can use, help people get rid of Bound Armor by giving the magika bonus somewhere else and let us use some much needed versatility.

Maybe an Aoe with the same type of mechanic as Healing Spring but for Domage.Something to spam when needed that we can put Inside our offbar.

We have a class AoE that is actually considered pretty good, if you can target it >.>.

What is this class aoe ?

Liquid Lightning / Lightning Flood
AoE Negate
AoE Atronach
Volatile Familiar's active ability
Mage's Wrath and morph's explosion
Daedric Curse

Those are all class skills with AoE Effects.

1's a pet (non-Ulti), 2 are Ultimates (not very good ones either), 1's an execute (not a very good one either), Curse does laughable splash damage, and Liquid Lightning is probably the best AoE DoT.

I agree they are not awesome skills, but they can still supplement a weapon AoE pretty decently. I also forgot Lightning form which is also a powerful AoE DoT and the Stamina morph was heavily buffed. I have hopes they will also increase the damage of the Magicka morph.

No they can't lol. The pet at endgame does half the aoe damage of impulse. And it requires triple slotting. An execute that triggers at 20% come on. ULTIMATES are not part of the conversation especially when they cost 150+ to whip out. Curse blows up after 3.5-6 seconds no bueno and the damage is laughable.

However I did find me a way to make it work that does not involve impulse but still relies on destro staves. Face it we are tied to destro for AOE and single target.

LOL we neeeeeed destro so bad we might aswell have a passive boosting destro use. It is 100% part of the Sorc.

Well's you'd only have that pet for AoE fights against mobs, so you wouldn't need to triple slot it and while it doesn't do as much damage as impulse, it coupled with unstable wall of elements, liquid lighting, lighting form and Pulsar would do significant damage.

You are right about us being heavily tied to Destro Staves though. Even with the changes I proposed we'd still need it for supplemental AoE damage.

But liquid lightening is no good in a mobile fight only good for static ones when it becomes quite powerful, pets are stupid and unreliable and I refuse to use them.

Agree with out the destro line we are pretty dire, my mage blade I use more now as it has it actually brings some usefulness to my group .and is not reliant on one skill to do good damage

Check the suggestions I gave on page 30 ^^

Pets can be made reliable (with changes) and we can be freed from the damned destro staves, at least to a point. I think the destro line for debuffs, buffs and AoEs is pretty good, Unstable Wall of Elements + Liquid lightning does so much damage, and yes, I agree with you, they are not easy to target and are better for static fights, but at least in PvE most AoE fights are static as it is easier for the healers to buff everyone by having the raid clustered together and not moving.

Grao · May 2016

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/265538/should-zos-be-more-responsive-to-their-official-feedback-threads#latest

Help me out with this please guys!

Mush55 · May 2016

Grao wrote: »

Mush55 wrote: »

Mush55 wrote: »

Always thought Liquid lightening was a dot due to it's tiny radius unlike pulsar which actually dose area damage..

Grao wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ops.

Valrien wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Mush55 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

potirondb16_ESO wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

kmatt wrote: »

STAM MORPH OF OVERLOAD,

Failing that change how Ultimats work so if its scaling off Stam it does physical damage and if its scaling off magic do magic damage for all class skills, this means that the champion point system works for your build.

Stam sorc needs some love still although hurricane is some nice improvement to its damage it has lost its utility of movement speed which was a big reason to use.

Again ill ask for the "Stone Shard" morph that is the Stam version of the morph we already have that adds a little AoE.

Last thing to say, make the passives useful as a stam sorc half of them are useless and no point taking & now with fighters guild changes we are punished for using our own class skills over fighters guild skills. Something like Major mending when dadric summoning skill is slotted, or at least change the pet passives to be useful to some extent without pets.

Stam Sorc is actually in a far better place than Mag. Sorc. now.

You guys deserve the boost FINALLY, and if other tweaks would further improve your lot - then by all means ask for them.

I would appreciate it if you could also comment on the Mag. Sorcs. nerfs however, as this is the overall Sorc. thread, and Stam. Sorcs. have the benefit of their own exclusive thread to feedback on.

id rather not have to 'donate' skills to a niche build that contridicts the purpose of a sorcerer, who is a master of magic. Mag sorc should be better, in most respects, to stam sorc. you guys want a buff? you should be calling for duel scaling, like the skills scale off your highest stat.

I'd rather not read another one of this ignorant post from someone who has no idea what an Elder Scrolls Sorcerer is. You should go do some research before you dismiss my class that is just a lore friendly as yours. Additionally, don't tell me what buffs I should be asking for if you've never played my class, dual scaling is just a terrible idea.

Oblivion Sorcerer

Morrowind Sorcerer

Have you even read those links you sent? I do agree that stamina sorcerers are something in the Elder Scroll's world, but as the game currently is set up, it is not at all like the Lore. First of all, stamina sorcerers in ESO are forced into medium armor, which they really didn't use that much on the other ES games. That affects how well sorcerers can shield them selves and absorb magika which is one of the class hugest features in the previous games. Also, because you are using medium armor your magika pool, which should be the largest in the game according to all Lore, will be shot... Because otherwise you will have no damage behind your abilities.

ESO can't conform perfectly to the other ES games because it is MMO. It needs a different sort of balancing and I am sorry... MMO wise, sorcerers are primarily magic casters. Just like Nightblades are assassins and thus the class to go for stamina builds, just templars are supposed to the best healers and DK the best tanks. I understand wanting stamina sorcerers to be more viable, but doing so at the expense of the class losing its magika orientation is idiotic at best. For a long time sorcerers have had the worst DPS in general and near to no utility and this patch is only making things worse, at least for Magika sorcerers.

You are absolutely correct. This is an MMO, and because it's an MMO every single class needs to be equally viable. This includes Stam Sorcs. Furthermore, why are we the only class that has to put up with this amount of stupidity? I don't ever see Magic Templars telling Stam Templars that they have no right to exist.

No... I am sorry... You are just wrong... The majority of the MMOs have each class very specialized. Viable only means it is playable, not that playing it will give you awesome results. I am not saying Stamina Sorcerers have no right to exist, I fully support you guys as long as buffing your side of things doesn't mean more nerfs to the Magika sorcerer builds. Unfortunately it seems Zenimax can't do that!

As for why you don't have to deal with this sort of comment on other classes threads, well maybe it is because their class doesn't already suck! Templar are still the best healers in the game, which fits the MMO Meta for the class. DKs are still the best Tanks and Nightblades are still the best Stamina DPS. Unfortunately Sorcerers are the Worst Magika DPS currently in the game instead of the best... That is why we don't need more nerfs so Stamina Sorcs can be better!

Also, I was arguing against your Lore argument that Stamina sorcerers exist in Elder Scrolls because you will never be able to get good results with the same sort of build we used in the other games while playing ESO. Gods know I tried. I started playing as a sorcerer with heavy armor and a two handed sword that focused most of the points in having a huge magika pool... Exactly like the other Elder Scrolls games... Guess how well that worked?

Actually a vast majority of MMOs don't have very specialized classes anymore. Once Blizzard realized people don't like to pigeonholed into a single specific roll because of the class they chose pretty much every company since has followed suit. In most MMOs today nearly every class has at least one viable dps spec.

No viable means the class is capable of performing well enough to be brought into endgame content. Go ask someone that has cleared Vet MoL if they would take a Stam Sorc with them over any other class including Magic Sorc. We have the worst DPS and bring no group utility. We are not currently a viable endgame trial class.

Depending on the content your running NBs are actually far better healers than Templars. Stam DKs are the best stam DPS class, and probably have the highest DPS out of all eight classes. Additionally, the Elder Scrolls lore supports Magic NBs far better than Stam NBs. None of that actually explains why we have to put up with so many ignorant people.

Attacking Stam Sorcs will get you no where. Instead why don't you focus on changes that will improve Magic Sorcs. I'll give you some ideas. Revamp Overload this skill is the reason your sustained DPS is the lowest Magic DPS in MoL. Fight this terrible Surge change. Get Dark Exchange to be actually usable. Get a complete class passive revamp; we have the worst for magic and stam.

And WTF are you talking about??? Overload is the only Ultimate in the sorcerer class that is still useful. Atronach is stupid and doesn't DPS nearly enough and Negate was nerfed to near nonexistence! Revamp overload, you are only suggesting that because you want overload to have a freaking stamina special morph!

Overload is a terrible ultimate, and the reason Magic Sorcs have such low DPS in long fights. I want nothing to do with Overload in it's current form, even if we were given a stamina morph. I hated the skill when I played on my Magic Sorc as well. So don't assume you know why I'm suggesting something. If you know anything about Magic Sorc DPS then you will know that using Overload in a fight that is about 3+ minutes long is a huge DPS loss over using Meteor. However, when using Overload on short duration fights Magic Sorcs have the highest DPS. This is one of the main reason people dismiss Magic Sorcs when you ask for DPS increases. Getting Overload exchanged for some sustained DPS is the best way to help this class, other than removing the pets.

Overload should be reworked to be an instant cast, single target, low cost ultimate. Once this happens the class can be balanced properly.

Yes, remove sorcerer's only ultimate that still have uses instead of removing dark exchange, a useless ability not even 1% of the sorcs ever slots in their bars. You clearly know what you are talking about.

To fix the sustained DPS issue for magika sorcs Dark Exchange should be reworked in a spam-able spell with a melee and a ranged morph to untie the class from always needing Force Pulse and Destro Staff. With such an ability available Zenimax could easily mess with the number till they got sorcer DPS up to par with the other magika DPSs without buffing the other classes as well and without causing too much disturbance in PvP.

It would also help with self healing as every activation of our spam-able ability would proc Blood Magic, healing the caster. Pets don't need to be removed, they need a few reworks, that is all.

As far as magika sorc goes, simply modify the Proc chance of Crystal blast and you got it, but that has repercussion upon pvp a LOT. That's why I think it should be look at from a diversification of the build perspecive.

Add a class AOE that we can use, help people get rid of Bound Armor by giving the magika bonus somewhere else and let us use some much needed versatility.

Maybe an Aoe with the same type of mechanic as Healing Spring but for Domage.Something to spam when needed that we can put Inside our offbar.

We have a class AoE that is actually considered pretty good, if you can target it >.>.

What is this class aoe ?

Liquid Lightning / Lightning Flood
AoE Negate
AoE Atronach
Volatile Familiar's active ability
Mage's Wrath and morph's explosion
Daedric Curse

Those are all class skills with AoE Effects.

1's a pet (non-Ulti), 2 are Ultimates (not very good ones either), 1's an execute (not a very good one either), Curse does laughable splash damage, and Liquid Lightning is probably the best AoE DoT.

I agree they are not awesome skills, but they can still supplement a weapon AoE pretty decently. I also forgot Lightning form which is also a powerful AoE DoT and the Stamina morph was heavily buffed. I have hopes they will also increase the damage of the Magicka morph.

No they can't lol. The pet at endgame does half the aoe damage of impulse. And it requires triple slotting. An execute that triggers at 20% come on. ULTIMATES are not part of the conversation especially when they cost 150+ to whip out. Curse blows up after 3.5-6 seconds no bueno and the damage is laughable.

However I did find me a way to make it work that does not involve impulse but still relies on destro staves. Face it we are tied to destro for AOE and single target.

LOL we neeeeeed destro so bad we might aswell have a passive boosting destro use. It is 100% part of the Sorc.

Well's you'd only have that pet for AoE fights against mobs, so you wouldn't need to triple slot it and while it doesn't do as much damage as impulse, it coupled with unstable wall of elements, liquid lighting, lighting form and Pulsar would do significant damage.

You are right about us being heavily tied to Destro Staves though. Even with the changes I proposed we'd still need it for supplemental AoE damage.

But liquid lightening is no good in a mobile fight only good for static ones when it becomes quite powerful, pets are stupid and unreliable and I refuse to use them.

Agree with out the destro line we are pretty dire, my mage blade I use more now as it has it actually brings some usefulness to my group .and is not reliant on one skill to do good damage

Check the suggestions I gave on page 30 ^^

Pets can be made reliable (with changes) and we can be freed from the damned destro staves, at least to a point. I think the destro line for debuffs, buffs and AoEs is pretty good, Unstable Wall of Elements + Liquid lightning does so much damage, and yes, I agree with you, they are not easy to target and are better for static fights, but at least in PvE most AoE fights are static as it is easier for the healers to buff everyone by having the raid clustered together and not moving.

I already run what you suggested have done for quite some time and yes it works well some times but it is not optimal and I am in no way trying to come across as an ass or just pick an argument

It's just a shame that my sorc which was my first char seems to be being left behind and have less to offer to my guild than my mage blade these days.

Minalan · May 2016

Grao wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Alright, this took a little while to type down, but here it goes. Sorcerers as I think they should / could be.

Dark Magic

Negate Magic: [As in Live]
Suppression Field: [As in the PTS] Create a globe of magic suppression, dispelling enemy placed effects instantly.
Enemy players will be silenced rather than stunned.
Heals you and your allies standing within the area of effect by X.

Absorption Field: [As in the PTS] Create a globe of magic suppression, dispelling enemy placed effects instantly.
Enemy players will be silenced rather than stunned.
Deals X Magic Damage to enemies standing within the area of effect.

Dark Exchange: Drains an enemy's strength causing X Magic Damage and Healing the caster by Y% of the Damage Caused. (Ranged, instant cast, 3000 – 3500 Magicka cost)
Dark Slash: [Replacing Dark Deal] Drains an enemy's strength causing X Magic Damage and Healing the caster by Y% of the Damage Caused.
Causes Z additional Magic Damage (Melee, instant cast, 3000 – 3500 Magicka cost)

Dark Conversion: Drains an enemy's strength causing X Magic Damage and Healing the caster by Y% of the Damage Caused.
Additionally regains Z% of the Damage caused as Magicka (Increased Range, instant cast, 3000 – 3500 Magicka cost)

Argument: This skill can be balanced to increase Sorcerer Magicka DPS just enough to be in the same level as the other Magicka Builds and Classes. It would replace Force Pulse in our rotation and its numbers could played with to fix the class's sustain issues while also creating diversity by stimulating the creation of a Melee DPS Magicka Sorcerer. At the same time it preserves some of the original essence of Dark Exchange.

Encase:[As in Live]
Shattering Prison: [As in Live]

Restraining Prison: [As in Live]

Rune Prison: [As in Live]
Rune Cage: [As in Live]

Defensive Rune: [As in Live]

Crystal Shard: [As in Live]
Crystal Blade: [Replacing Crystal Blast] Conjure a dark crystal blade and toss it at an enemy, dealing X Physical Damage and stunning them for 2 seconds.
Casting any other Stamina ability has a 35% chance of causing your next Crystal Blade to be instant, cause the target to bleed for Y seconds, and cost 50% less Stamina.

Crystal Fragments: [As in Live]

Daedric Curse: [Swap with Daedric Mines – As in Live]
Daedric Prey: [As in Live]

Velocious Curse: Curses an enemy with a destructive rune dealing X Magic Damage every second and Y Magic Damage to all other nearby enemies after 3.5 seconds.
Has shorter duration and is converted into a true DoT.

Argument: This ability should be swapped with Daedric Mines for a few reasons, the first being both skills are daedric in nature, but Daedric Curse doesn't summon anything and is not affected in anyway by the passives in the Daedric Summoning Tree. Meanwhile curses are considered Dark Magic and Daedric Mines actually does summon something, not to mention certain passives in Summoning Tree could be tinkered to affect that skill positively.

Unholy Knowledge: [As in Live]

Blood Magic: [As in Live ]

Persistence: [As in Live]

Exploitation: [As in Live]

Daedric Summoning

Argument: Allow all Magicka Scaling Pets to gain extra damage from Spell Power and Stamina Pets to gain extra damage from Weapon Power as well. That or simply increase their damage slightly.

Summon Storm Atronach: [As in Live]
Greater Storm Atronach: Summon a storm atronach at the target location. The atronach's arrival deals X Shock Damage and stuns nearby enemies for 3 seconds. The atronach cannot move but attacks the nearest enemy.
An ally can activate Lightning Barrier, granting a energy shield to all allies in range and the atronach absorbing Y damage for 8 seconds. Atronach has increased duration, health and damage.
Upon Synergy activation, grants all allies in range a energy shield (similar to barrier).

Summon Empowering Atronach: Summon a storm atronach at the target location. The atronach's arrival deals X Shock Damage and stuns nearby enemies for 3 seconds. The atronach cannot move but attacks the nearest enemy.
An ally can activate Charged Lightning, giving both the ally, the Atronach's caster and the atronach Major Berserk, increasing their damage by 25% for 8 seconds.
Caster of the Atronach is also granted Major Berserk upon the activation of the Atronach's Synergy. Additionally, the Atronach has a powerful area effect attack.

Argument: One of the things Sorcerers currently lack is useful utility for a raid or dungeon group. Granting Minor Prophecy is simply not enough and I believe Zenimax recognizes such as true as they are buffing Negate. This changes would grant the Atronach more power and interesting utility, the first morph would sacrifice damage to shield the raid and the second morph would empower not only the ally who activated the synergy, but also the sorcerer, helping the sorcerer DPS.

Unstable Familiar: [As in the PTS]*
Summon Unstable Clannfear: Command the powers of Oblivion to send a clannfear to fight at your side. The clannfear's attacks deal X Physical Damage plus an additional 15%.
Once summoned you can activate the clannfear's special ability, tail swiping nearby enemies and taunting the primary target for Y seconds.
The clannfear remains until killed or unsummoned. (Stamina Based)

Summon Volatile Familiar: [As in PTS]*

Bound Armor: Protect yourself with the power of Oblivion, creating a suit of Daedric mail that grants Minor Resolve and Minor Ward, increasing your Armor and Spell Resistance by X.
Bound Armaments: Protect yourself with the power of Oblivion, creating a suit of Daedric mail that grants Minor Resolve and Minor Ward, increasing your Armor and Spell Resistance by X.
The armor also increases your Max Stamina by 5%.
Once summoned you can activate the armament's special ability, granting Minor Berserk, increasing all damage done by 8% for 5 seconds.

Bound Aegis: Protect yourself with the power of Oblivion, creating a suit of Daedric mail that grants Minor Resolve and Minor Ward, increasing your Armor and Spell Resistance by X.
The armor also increases your Max Health by 5%.
Once summoned you can activate the armor's special ability, healing you for 35% of your Maximum Health

Argument: Again, in an effort to diversify builds this skills would support both Stamina and Tanking sorcerers greatly. The self heal removed from Clannfear coupled with the 5% Health increase would make this a useful toggle for Tanks while Minor Berserk would make Bound Armaments tempting not just for Stamina Sorcerers but also for Magicka Sorcerers. The 5% Stamina increase would be very useful for Stam DPS, but would also be tempting for tanks needing additional resources for blocking, etc.

Summon Winged Twilight: [As in PTS]*
Summon Twilight Tormentor: [As in PTS]*

Summon Twilight Matriarch: [As in PTS]*

Daedric Mines: [As in Live]
Daedric Tomb: [As in Live]

Daedric Minefield: [As in Live]

Conjured Ward: Conjures globes of Daedric energy for protection granting you a damage shield that absorbs X damage for 6 seconds and healing your pets for Y.
Hardened Ward: Conjures globes of Daedric energy for protection granting you a damage shield that absorbs X damage for 6 seconds and healing your pets for Y.
While the ward is active, your summoned creatures are immune to damage.
Your damage shield absorbs 30% more damage.

Empowered Ward: Conjures globes of Daedric energy for protection granting you a damage shield that absorbs X damage for 6 seconds and healing your pets for Y.
While the ward is active, your summoned creatures are immune to damage.
This skill also grants Minor Intellect to you and nearby allies, increasing your Magicka Recovery by 10% for 20 seconds and has reduced cost.

Argument: With the changes proposed above and the considerable nerf to all shields in the game this skill needs a few changes to remain viable, not to mention pets need better protection, specially as Sorcerers will no longer be able to maintain their Wards up 100% of the time. The idea here is to use your ward when your pet is going low on health or when you know it and your self are about to get hit with a massive amount of damage. The choice for the sorcerer would then be between having a larger shield or having their shield cost less and provide some minor utility for their allies.

Rebate: When one of your summoned creatures or mines is killed or triggered, you are restored X Magicka.

Power Stone: [As in Live]

Daedric Protection: [As in Live]

Expert Summoner: Grants you 4/8% more maximum magicka whenever you have a Daedric Summoning pet active.

Argument: Not only would this increase sorcerer DPS by increasing the Magicka pool, it would also increase the pet's DPS and thus make them more attractive. This would also help Tank builds that utilize the Clannfear as part of their build.

Storm Calling

Overload: Charge your fists with the power of the storm. Light attacks become lightning bolts, dealing X Shock Damage and 5% additional damage.
Attacks deplete Ultimate until you run out or the ability is toggled off.
Power Overload: Charge your fists with the power of the storm. Light attacks become lightning bolts, dealing X Shock Damage and 10% additional damage.
Attacks deplete Ultimate until you run out or the ability is toggled off.

Energy Overload: Charge your fists with the power of the storm. Light attacks become lightning bolts, dealing X Shock Damage and 5% additional damage.
Attacks deplete Ultimate until you run out or the ability is toggled off and restore X Magicka and / or Stamina.

Argument: First of all, this ultimate is, in my opinion, the best sorcerer ultimate, not only because its potential burst damage but also because it unlocks a third bar. For a class with quite a few toggles, that is quite a useful feature.
That is not to say it doesn't need a few small changes. Nerfs to its damage have made prolonged use of this ultimate less advantageous, so it could use a slight increase in its power. More importantly though, this is a ultimate plagued by bugs, the most annoying one being getting 'stuck' in heavy attack mode. As its heavy attack isn't powerful enough to be used, I propose simply disabling it as it is not truly a feature for the ultimate, but a problem. Power overload should be about making the ultimate more powerful, not about range and energy overload should return the resource that is actually useful to the sorcerer using the ability or simply return both resources.

Mage's Fury: [As in Live]
Mage's Wrath: [As in Live]*

Endless Fury: Call down lightning to strike an enemy for X Shock Damage.
If target enemy's health falls below 20% within 4 seconds, an explosion deals an additional Y Shock Damage to the target and Z Shock Damage to other enemies nearby.
Applies a lighting charge that increases the damage of the next cast of Endless Fury by 10% stacking up to 3 times.

Argument: I think no one will argue that Endless Fury feels lackluster when compared to Mage's Wrath. The use of the skill doesn't feel endless at all as its special trait only activates when you kill your enemy and at least in PvE that usually mean the fight is over and you don't need the very small amount of Magicka it returns. This change would encourage spamming this ability and would be an interesting boost for extra damage against enemies that won't die to just one or two explosions. I also believe Mage's Wrath AoE 'Explosion' could use buffs.

Lightning Form: [As in Live]
Hurricane: [Replacing Thundering Presence] Manifest yourself as lightning to gain Major Resolve and Major Ward, increasing Armor and Spell Resistance by X for 20 seconds.
While active, nearby enemies will take Y Physical Damage each second. The size and damage of the periodic effect increases the longer it is active, going up to 225% more damage and up to 9 meters in size.
Grants the Minor Expedition buff at all times while it is active.

Boundless Storm: [As in Live]*

Argument: The new Stamina morph for this ability seems great, but it does make the Magicka morph feeling very lackluster. Its cost is higher, its damage is weaker and the duration of its speed buff is considerably shorter, even if the buff is more powerful. Yes, the duration is longer which justify the higher cost, but the damage of the Magicka morph for this ability could use some small buff and its range could see a small increase.

Lightning Splash: [As in Live]
Liquid Lightning: [As in Live]*

Lightning Flood: [As in Live]

Argument: This is a good skill, but Liquid Lightning can be tricky to target. I would gladly see that morph lose its AoE aspect and become a more traditional, single target, powerful DoT. It is not a necessary change though.

Surge: [As in the PTS]*
Power Surge: [As in the PTS]*

Critical Surge: [As in the PTS]*

Argument: I heavily dislike some of the changes this skill suffered this last patch, but I believe Zenimax is still working the numbers. Besides, I believe other changes proposed above would take care of the sustain issues the changes to Surge's internal cooldown and heals would cause.

Bolt Escape: [As in Live]*
Streak: [As in Live]*

Ball of lightning: [As in Live]*

Argument: I will admit this is not a skill a use a lot as my enjoyment in PvP tends to fizzle out after fighting the considerable lag of Cyrodill for about an hour. I do believe the stacking cost increase intended to punish repetitive uses of the skill should be balanced out by a damage increase for each repetitive use. The idea is to keep sorcerers from spamming the ability to run away when they are in trouble, but if the sorcerer is using this ability aggressively, that should be rewarded.

Capacitor: [As in Live]

Energized: [As in the PTS]*

Argument: This is a good passive and the change to it adding Physical Damage is a step on the right direction. I'd love to see that damage buff extended to Magic Damage as well or to all Elemental Damage instead of just Shock Damage. Again, with the changes proposed above this may not be needed.

Implosion: [As in the PTS]

Expert Mage: [As in Live]

@Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno
Please take a look at this. Right here would make the Sorc viable and fun to play. We would have group buffs that would make us useful, and have damage and a really good reason to alot pets.

If anything atleast for now make the change with bound armor mines and pet magick passives...

I am glad someone took the time to read all of that >.> Typing all of it and formating it too quite a bit of time

I agree with most of that except for pet damage immunity. That's... Too much. Increase their shields, but immortal? No.

I'd also set the endless fury to hit at a higher execute percentage (40%? I mean radiant destruction triggers at HALF health). And leave it there.

I love the dark conversion ideas, so long as it's spammable!

Grao · May 2016

Minalan wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Alright, this took a little while to type down, but here it goes. Sorcerers as I think they should / could be.

Dark Magic

Negate Magic: [As in Live]
Suppression Field: [As in the PTS] Create a globe of magic suppression, dispelling enemy placed effects instantly.
Enemy players will be silenced rather than stunned.
Heals you and your allies standing within the area of effect by X.

Absorption Field: [As in the PTS] Create a globe of magic suppression, dispelling enemy placed effects instantly.
Enemy players will be silenced rather than stunned.
Deals X Magic Damage to enemies standing within the area of effect.

Dark Exchange: Drains an enemy's strength causing X Magic Damage and Healing the caster by Y% of the Damage Caused. (Ranged, instant cast, 3000 – 3500 Magicka cost)
Dark Slash: [Replacing Dark Deal] Drains an enemy's strength causing X Magic Damage and Healing the caster by Y% of the Damage Caused.
Causes Z additional Magic Damage (Melee, instant cast, 3000 – 3500 Magicka cost)

Dark Conversion: Drains an enemy's strength causing X Magic Damage and Healing the caster by Y% of the Damage Caused.
Additionally regains Z% of the Damage caused as Magicka (Increased Range, instant cast, 3000 – 3500 Magicka cost)

Argument: This skill can be balanced to increase Sorcerer Magicka DPS just enough to be in the same level as the other Magicka Builds and Classes. It would replace Force Pulse in our rotation and its numbers could played with to fix the class's sustain issues while also creating diversity by stimulating the creation of a Melee DPS Magicka Sorcerer. At the same time it preserves some of the original essence of Dark Exchange.

Encase:[As in Live]
Shattering Prison: [As in Live]

Restraining Prison: [As in Live]

Rune Prison: [As in Live]
Rune Cage: [As in Live]

Defensive Rune: [As in Live]

Crystal Shard: [As in Live]
Crystal Blade: [Replacing Crystal Blast] Conjure a dark crystal blade and toss it at an enemy, dealing X Physical Damage and stunning them for 2 seconds.
Casting any other Stamina ability has a 35% chance of causing your next Crystal Blade to be instant, cause the target to bleed for Y seconds, and cost 50% less Stamina.

Crystal Fragments: [As in Live]

Daedric Curse: [Swap with Daedric Mines – As in Live]
Daedric Prey: [As in Live]

Velocious Curse: Curses an enemy with a destructive rune dealing X Magic Damage every second and Y Magic Damage to all other nearby enemies after 3.5 seconds.
Has shorter duration and is converted into a true DoT.

Argument: This ability should be swapped with Daedric Mines for a few reasons, the first being both skills are daedric in nature, but Daedric Curse doesn't summon anything and is not affected in anyway by the passives in the Daedric Summoning Tree. Meanwhile curses are considered Dark Magic and Daedric Mines actually does summon something, not to mention certain passives in Summoning Tree could be tinkered to affect that skill positively.

Unholy Knowledge: [As in Live]

Blood Magic: [As in Live ]

Persistence: [As in Live]

Exploitation: [As in Live]

Daedric Summoning

Argument: Allow all Magicka Scaling Pets to gain extra damage from Spell Power and Stamina Pets to gain extra damage from Weapon Power as well. That or simply increase their damage slightly.

Summon Storm Atronach: [As in Live]
Greater Storm Atronach: Summon a storm atronach at the target location. The atronach's arrival deals X Shock Damage and stuns nearby enemies for 3 seconds. The atronach cannot move but attacks the nearest enemy.
An ally can activate Lightning Barrier, granting a energy shield to all allies in range and the atronach absorbing Y damage for 8 seconds. Atronach has increased duration, health and damage.
Upon Synergy activation, grants all allies in range a energy shield (similar to barrier).

Summon Empowering Atronach: Summon a storm atronach at the target location. The atronach's arrival deals X Shock Damage and stuns nearby enemies for 3 seconds. The atronach cannot move but attacks the nearest enemy.
An ally can activate Charged Lightning, giving both the ally, the Atronach's caster and the atronach Major Berserk, increasing their damage by 25% for 8 seconds.
Caster of the Atronach is also granted Major Berserk upon the activation of the Atronach's Synergy. Additionally, the Atronach has a powerful area effect attack.

Argument: One of the things Sorcerers currently lack is useful utility for a raid or dungeon group. Granting Minor Prophecy is simply not enough and I believe Zenimax recognizes such as true as they are buffing Negate. This changes would grant the Atronach more power and interesting utility, the first morph would sacrifice damage to shield the raid and the second morph would empower not only the ally who activated the synergy, but also the sorcerer, helping the sorcerer DPS.

Unstable Familiar: [As in the PTS]*
Summon Unstable Clannfear: Command the powers of Oblivion to send a clannfear to fight at your side. The clannfear's attacks deal X Physical Damage plus an additional 15%.
Once summoned you can activate the clannfear's special ability, tail swiping nearby enemies and taunting the primary target for Y seconds.
The clannfear remains until killed or unsummoned. (Stamina Based)

Summon Volatile Familiar: [As in PTS]*

Bound Armor: Protect yourself with the power of Oblivion, creating a suit of Daedric mail that grants Minor Resolve and Minor Ward, increasing your Armor and Spell Resistance by X.
Bound Armaments: Protect yourself with the power of Oblivion, creating a suit of Daedric mail that grants Minor Resolve and Minor Ward, increasing your Armor and Spell Resistance by X.
The armor also increases your Max Stamina by 5%.
Once summoned you can activate the armament's special ability, granting Minor Berserk, increasing all damage done by 8% for 5 seconds.

Bound Aegis: Protect yourself with the power of Oblivion, creating a suit of Daedric mail that grants Minor Resolve and Minor Ward, increasing your Armor and Spell Resistance by X.
The armor also increases your Max Health by 5%.
Once summoned you can activate the armor's special ability, healing you for 35% of your Maximum Health

Argument: Again, in an effort to diversify builds this skills would support both Stamina and Tanking sorcerers greatly. The self heal removed from Clannfear coupled with the 5% Health increase would make this a useful toggle for Tanks while Minor Berserk would make Bound Armaments tempting not just for Stamina Sorcerers but also for Magicka Sorcerers. The 5% Stamina increase would be very useful for Stam DPS, but would also be tempting for tanks needing additional resources for blocking, etc.

Summon Winged Twilight: [As in PTS]*
Summon Twilight Tormentor: [As in PTS]*

Summon Twilight Matriarch: [As in PTS]*

Daedric Mines: [As in Live]
Daedric Tomb: [As in Live]

Daedric Minefield: [As in Live]

Conjured Ward: Conjures globes of Daedric energy for protection granting you a damage shield that absorbs X damage for 6 seconds and healing your pets for Y.
Hardened Ward: Conjures globes of Daedric energy for protection granting you a damage shield that absorbs X damage for 6 seconds and healing your pets for Y.
While the ward is active, your summoned creatures are immune to damage.
Your damage shield absorbs 30% more damage.

Empowered Ward: Conjures globes of Daedric energy for protection granting you a damage shield that absorbs X damage for 6 seconds and healing your pets for Y.
While the ward is active, your summoned creatures are immune to damage.
This skill also grants Minor Intellect to you and nearby allies, increasing your Magicka Recovery by 10% for 20 seconds and has reduced cost.

Argument: With the changes proposed above and the considerable nerf to all shields in the game this skill needs a few changes to remain viable, not to mention pets need better protection, specially as Sorcerers will no longer be able to maintain their Wards up 100% of the time. The idea here is to use your ward when your pet is going low on health or when you know it and your self are about to get hit with a massive amount of damage. The choice for the sorcerer would then be between having a larger shield or having their shield cost less and provide some minor utility for their allies.

Rebate: When one of your summoned creatures or mines is killed or triggered, you are restored X Magicka.

Power Stone: [As in Live]

Daedric Protection: [As in Live]

Expert Summoner: Grants you 4/8% more maximum magicka whenever you have a Daedric Summoning pet active.

Argument: Not only would this increase sorcerer DPS by increasing the Magicka pool, it would also increase the pet's DPS and thus make them more attractive. This would also help Tank builds that utilize the Clannfear as part of their build.

Storm Calling

Overload: Charge your fists with the power of the storm. Light attacks become lightning bolts, dealing X Shock Damage and 5% additional damage.
Attacks deplete Ultimate until you run out or the ability is toggled off.
Power Overload: Charge your fists with the power of the storm. Light attacks become lightning bolts, dealing X Shock Damage and 10% additional damage.
Attacks deplete Ultimate until you run out or the ability is toggled off.

Energy Overload: Charge your fists with the power of the storm. Light attacks become lightning bolts, dealing X Shock Damage and 5% additional damage.
Attacks deplete Ultimate until you run out or the ability is toggled off and restore X Magicka and / or Stamina.

Argument: First of all, this ultimate is, in my opinion, the best sorcerer ultimate, not only because its potential burst damage but also because it unlocks a third bar. For a class with quite a few toggles, that is quite a useful feature.
That is not to say it doesn't need a few small changes. Nerfs to its damage have made prolonged use of this ultimate less advantageous, so it could use a slight increase in its power. More importantly though, this is a ultimate plagued by bugs, the most annoying one being getting 'stuck' in heavy attack mode. As its heavy attack isn't powerful enough to be used, I propose simply disabling it as it is not truly a feature for the ultimate, but a problem. Power overload should be about making the ultimate more powerful, not about range and energy overload should return the resource that is actually useful to the sorcerer using the ability or simply return both resources.

Mage's Fury: [As in Live]
Mage's Wrath: [As in Live]*

Endless Fury: Call down lightning to strike an enemy for X Shock Damage.
If target enemy's health falls below 20% within 4 seconds, an explosion deals an additional Y Shock Damage to the target and Z Shock Damage to other enemies nearby.
Applies a lighting charge that increases the damage of the next cast of Endless Fury by 10% stacking up to 3 times.

Argument: I think no one will argue that Endless Fury feels lackluster when compared to Mage's Wrath. The use of the skill doesn't feel endless at all as its special trait only activates when you kill your enemy and at least in PvE that usually mean the fight is over and you don't need the very small amount of Magicka it returns. This change would encourage spamming this ability and would be an interesting boost for extra damage against enemies that won't die to just one or two explosions. I also believe Mage's Wrath AoE 'Explosion' could use buffs.

Lightning Form: [As in Live]
Hurricane: [Replacing Thundering Presence] Manifest yourself as lightning to gain Major Resolve and Major Ward, increasing Armor and Spell Resistance by X for 20 seconds.
While active, nearby enemies will take Y Physical Damage each second. The size and damage of the periodic effect increases the longer it is active, going up to 225% more damage and up to 9 meters in size.
Grants the Minor Expedition buff at all times while it is active.

Boundless Storm: [As in Live]*

Argument: The new Stamina morph for this ability seems great, but it does make the Magicka morph feeling very lackluster. Its cost is higher, its damage is weaker and the duration of its speed buff is considerably shorter, even if the buff is more powerful. Yes, the duration is longer which justify the higher cost, but the damage of the Magicka morph for this ability could use some small buff and its range could see a small increase.

Lightning Splash: [As in Live]
Liquid Lightning: [As in Live]*

Lightning Flood: [As in Live]

Argument: This is a good skill, but Liquid Lightning can be tricky to target. I would gladly see that morph lose its AoE aspect and become a more traditional, single target, powerful DoT. It is not a necessary change though.

Surge: [As in the PTS]*
Power Surge: [As in the PTS]*

Critical Surge: [As in the PTS]*

Argument: I heavily dislike some of the changes this skill suffered this last patch, but I believe Zenimax is still working the numbers. Besides, I believe other changes proposed above would take care of the sustain issues the changes to Surge's internal cooldown and heals would cause.

Bolt Escape: [As in Live]*
Streak: [As in Live]*

Ball of lightning: [As in Live]*

Argument: I will admit this is not a skill a use a lot as my enjoyment in PvP tends to fizzle out after fighting the considerable lag of Cyrodill for about an hour. I do believe the stacking cost increase intended to punish repetitive uses of the skill should be balanced out by a damage increase for each repetitive use. The idea is to keep sorcerers from spamming the ability to run away when they are in trouble, but if the sorcerer is using this ability aggressively, that should be rewarded.

Capacitor: [As in Live]

Energized: [As in the PTS]*

Argument: This is a good passive and the change to it adding Physical Damage is a step on the right direction. I'd love to see that damage buff extended to Magic Damage as well or to all Elemental Damage instead of just Shock Damage. Again, with the changes proposed above this may not be needed.

Implosion: [As in the PTS]

Expert Mage: [As in Live]

@Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno
Please take a look at this. Right here would make the Sorc viable and fun to play. We would have group buffs that would make us useful, and have damage and a really good reason to alot pets.

If anything atleast for now make the change with bound armor mines and pet magick passives...

I am glad someone took the time to read all of that >.> Typing all of it and formating it too quite a bit of time

I agree with most of that except for pet damage immunity. That's... Too much. Increase their shields, but immortal? No.

I'd also set the endless fury to hit at a higher execute percentage (40%? I mean radiant destruction triggers at HALF health). And leave it there.

I love the dark conversion ideas, so long as it's spammable!

Yes, the idea is for Dark Exchange and morphs to replace Force Pulse in Magicka sorcerer DPS. It would be the skill to balance to increase our sustained DPS wothout causing massive issues in PvP.

As for the pets immunity, yes, you may be right, specially because of the combo of Clannfear taunt + the immunity to damage. All I want is for the shield to be powerful enough that pets would survive the bosses abilities if they were shielded (The clannfear can die when used for tanking the bosses massive hits though. It would be the sorcerer tank way of mitigating their damage, by having their pet take it and die instead.

And as to our execution, I probably wouldn't set our execute over 25% or so as it might become a problem in PvP. I think the templars execution needs nerfs instead as it is far stronger than what we have and what nightblades have.

Grao · May 2016

Mush55 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Mush55 wrote: »

Mush55 wrote: »

Always thought Liquid lightening was a dot due to it's tiny radius unlike pulsar which actually dose area damage..

Grao wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ops.

Valrien wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Mush55 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

potirondb16_ESO wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

kmatt wrote: »

STAM MORPH OF OVERLOAD,

Failing that change how Ultimats work so if its scaling off Stam it does physical damage and if its scaling off magic do magic damage for all class skills, this means that the champion point system works for your build.

Stam sorc needs some love still although hurricane is some nice improvement to its damage it has lost its utility of movement speed which was a big reason to use.

Again ill ask for the "Stone Shard" morph that is the Stam version of the morph we already have that adds a little AoE.

Last thing to say, make the passives useful as a stam sorc half of them are useless and no point taking & now with fighters guild changes we are punished for using our own class skills over fighters guild skills. Something like Major mending when dadric summoning skill is slotted, or at least change the pet passives to be useful to some extent without pets.

Stam Sorc is actually in a far better place than Mag. Sorc. now.

You guys deserve the boost FINALLY, and if other tweaks would further improve your lot - then by all means ask for them.

I would appreciate it if you could also comment on the Mag. Sorcs. nerfs however, as this is the overall Sorc. thread, and Stam. Sorcs. have the benefit of their own exclusive thread to feedback on.

id rather not have to 'donate' skills to a niche build that contridicts the purpose of a sorcerer, who is a master of magic. Mag sorc should be better, in most respects, to stam sorc. you guys want a buff? you should be calling for duel scaling, like the skills scale off your highest stat.

I'd rather not read another one of this ignorant post from someone who has no idea what an Elder Scrolls Sorcerer is. You should go do some research before you dismiss my class that is just a lore friendly as yours. Additionally, don't tell me what buffs I should be asking for if you've never played my class, dual scaling is just a terrible idea.

Oblivion Sorcerer

Morrowind Sorcerer

Have you even read those links you sent? I do agree that stamina sorcerers are something in the Elder Scroll's world, but as the game currently is set up, it is not at all like the Lore. First of all, stamina sorcerers in ESO are forced into medium armor, which they really didn't use that much on the other ES games. That affects how well sorcerers can shield them selves and absorb magika which is one of the class hugest features in the previous games. Also, because you are using medium armor your magika pool, which should be the largest in the game according to all Lore, will be shot... Because otherwise you will have no damage behind your abilities.

ESO can't conform perfectly to the other ES games because it is MMO. It needs a different sort of balancing and I am sorry... MMO wise, sorcerers are primarily magic casters. Just like Nightblades are assassins and thus the class to go for stamina builds, just templars are supposed to the best healers and DK the best tanks. I understand wanting stamina sorcerers to be more viable, but doing so at the expense of the class losing its magika orientation is idiotic at best. For a long time sorcerers have had the worst DPS in general and near to no utility and this patch is only making things worse, at least for Magika sorcerers.

You are absolutely correct. This is an MMO, and because it's an MMO every single class needs to be equally viable. This includes Stam Sorcs. Furthermore, why are we the only class that has to put up with this amount of stupidity? I don't ever see Magic Templars telling Stam Templars that they have no right to exist.

No... I am sorry... You are just wrong... The majority of the MMOs have each class very specialized. Viable only means it is playable, not that playing it will give you awesome results. I am not saying Stamina Sorcerers have no right to exist, I fully support you guys as long as buffing your side of things doesn't mean more nerfs to the Magika sorcerer builds. Unfortunately it seems Zenimax can't do that!

As for why you don't have to deal with this sort of comment on other classes threads, well maybe it is because their class doesn't already suck! Templar are still the best healers in the game, which fits the MMO Meta for the class. DKs are still the best Tanks and Nightblades are still the best Stamina DPS. Unfortunately Sorcerers are the Worst Magika DPS currently in the game instead of the best... That is why we don't need more nerfs so Stamina Sorcs can be better!

Also, I was arguing against your Lore argument that Stamina sorcerers exist in Elder Scrolls because you will never be able to get good results with the same sort of build we used in the other games while playing ESO. Gods know I tried. I started playing as a sorcerer with heavy armor and a two handed sword that focused most of the points in having a huge magika pool... Exactly like the other Elder Scrolls games... Guess how well that worked?

Actually a vast majority of MMOs don't have very specialized classes anymore. Once Blizzard realized people don't like to pigeonholed into a single specific roll because of the class they chose pretty much every company since has followed suit. In most MMOs today nearly every class has at least one viable dps spec.

No viable means the class is capable of performing well enough to be brought into endgame content. Go ask someone that has cleared Vet MoL if they would take a Stam Sorc with them over any other class including Magic Sorc. We have the worst DPS and bring no group utility. We are not currently a viable endgame trial class.

Depending on the content your running NBs are actually far better healers than Templars. Stam DKs are the best stam DPS class, and probably have the highest DPS out of all eight classes. Additionally, the Elder Scrolls lore supports Magic NBs far better than Stam NBs. None of that actually explains why we have to put up with so many ignorant people.

Attacking Stam Sorcs will get you no where. Instead why don't you focus on changes that will improve Magic Sorcs. I'll give you some ideas. Revamp Overload this skill is the reason your sustained DPS is the lowest Magic DPS in MoL. Fight this terrible Surge change. Get Dark Exchange to be actually usable. Get a complete class passive revamp; we have the worst for magic and stam.

And WTF are you talking about??? Overload is the only Ultimate in the sorcerer class that is still useful. Atronach is stupid and doesn't DPS nearly enough and Negate was nerfed to near nonexistence! Revamp overload, you are only suggesting that because you want overload to have a freaking stamina special morph!

Overload is a terrible ultimate, and the reason Magic Sorcs have such low DPS in long fights. I want nothing to do with Overload in it's current form, even if we were given a stamina morph. I hated the skill when I played on my Magic Sorc as well. So don't assume you know why I'm suggesting something. If you know anything about Magic Sorc DPS then you will know that using Overload in a fight that is about 3+ minutes long is a huge DPS loss over using Meteor. However, when using Overload on short duration fights Magic Sorcs have the highest DPS. This is one of the main reason people dismiss Magic Sorcs when you ask for DPS increases. Getting Overload exchanged for some sustained DPS is the best way to help this class, other than removing the pets.

Overload should be reworked to be an instant cast, single target, low cost ultimate. Once this happens the class can be balanced properly.

Yes, remove sorcerer's only ultimate that still have uses instead of removing dark exchange, a useless ability not even 1% of the sorcs ever slots in their bars. You clearly know what you are talking about.

To fix the sustained DPS issue for magika sorcs Dark Exchange should be reworked in a spam-able spell with a melee and a ranged morph to untie the class from always needing Force Pulse and Destro Staff. With such an ability available Zenimax could easily mess with the number till they got sorcer DPS up to par with the other magika DPSs without buffing the other classes as well and without causing too much disturbance in PvP.

It would also help with self healing as every activation of our spam-able ability would proc Blood Magic, healing the caster. Pets don't need to be removed, they need a few reworks, that is all.

As far as magika sorc goes, simply modify the Proc chance of Crystal blast and you got it, but that has repercussion upon pvp a LOT. That's why I think it should be look at from a diversification of the build perspecive.

Add a class AOE that we can use, help people get rid of Bound Armor by giving the magika bonus somewhere else and let us use some much needed versatility.

Maybe an Aoe with the same type of mechanic as Healing Spring but for Domage.Something to spam when needed that we can put Inside our offbar.

We have a class AoE that is actually considered pretty good, if you can target it >.>.

What is this class aoe ?

Liquid Lightning / Lightning Flood
AoE Negate
AoE Atronach
Volatile Familiar's active ability
Mage's Wrath and morph's explosion
Daedric Curse

Those are all class skills with AoE Effects.

1's a pet (non-Ulti), 2 are Ultimates (not very good ones either), 1's an execute (not a very good one either), Curse does laughable splash damage, and Liquid Lightning is probably the best AoE DoT.

I agree they are not awesome skills, but they can still supplement a weapon AoE pretty decently. I also forgot Lightning form which is also a powerful AoE DoT and the Stamina morph was heavily buffed. I have hopes they will also increase the damage of the Magicka morph.

No they can't lol. The pet at endgame does half the aoe damage of impulse. And it requires triple slotting. An execute that triggers at 20% come on. ULTIMATES are not part of the conversation especially when they cost 150+ to whip out. Curse blows up after 3.5-6 seconds no bueno and the damage is laughable.

However I did find me a way to make it work that does not involve impulse but still relies on destro staves. Face it we are tied to destro for AOE and single target.

LOL we neeeeeed destro so bad we might aswell have a passive boosting destro use. It is 100% part of the Sorc.

Well's you'd only have that pet for AoE fights against mobs, so you wouldn't need to triple slot it and while it doesn't do as much damage as impulse, it coupled with unstable wall of elements, liquid lighting, lighting form and Pulsar would do significant damage.

You are right about us being heavily tied to Destro Staves though. Even with the changes I proposed we'd still need it for supplemental AoE damage.

But liquid lightening is no good in a mobile fight only good for static ones when it becomes quite powerful, pets are stupid and unreliable and I refuse to use them.

Agree with out the destro line we are pretty dire, my mage blade I use more now as it has it actually brings some usefulness to my group .and is not reliant on one skill to do good damage

Check the suggestions I gave on page 30 ^^

Pets can be made reliable (with changes) and we can be freed from the damned destro staves, at least to a point. I think the destro line for debuffs, buffs and AoEs is pretty good, Unstable Wall of Elements + Liquid lightning does so much damage, and yes, I agree with you, they are not easy to target and are better for static fights, but at least in PvE most AoE fights are static as it is easier for the healers to buff everyone by having the raid clustered together and not moving.

I already run what you suggested have done for quite some time and yes it works well some times but it is not optimal and I am in no way trying to come across as an ass or just pick an argument

It's just a shame that my sorc which was my first char seems to be being left behind and have less to offer to my guild than my mage blade these days.

I agree, the state of this class right now is a shame. We lost most of our uniqueness to nerfs and buffs given to skills out of our class tree, our utility was bashed to pieces though it seems they are starting to glue thoe together now and our DPS is the lowest of all classes when once it was the highest.

It feels @Wrobel 's changes are patching with no direction, Sorcerers have no identity anymore.

cpuScientist · May 2016

Grao wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Alright, this took a little while to type down, but here it goes. Sorcerers as I think they should / could be.

Dark Magic

Negate Magic: [As in Live]
Suppression Field: [As in the PTS] Create a globe of magic suppression, dispelling enemy placed effects instantly.
Enemy players will be silenced rather than stunned.
Heals you and your allies standing within the area of effect by X.

Absorption Field: [As in the PTS] Create a globe of magic suppression, dispelling enemy placed effects instantly.
Enemy players will be silenced rather than stunned.
Deals X Magic Damage to enemies standing within the area of effect.

Dark Exchange: Drains an enemy's strength causing X Magic Damage and Healing the caster by Y% of the Damage Caused. (Ranged, instant cast, 3000 – 3500 Magicka cost)
Dark Slash: [Replacing Dark Deal] Drains an enemy's strength causing X Magic Damage and Healing the caster by Y% of the Damage Caused.
Causes Z additional Magic Damage (Melee, instant cast, 3000 – 3500 Magicka cost)

Dark Conversion: Drains an enemy's strength causing X Magic Damage and Healing the caster by Y% of the Damage Caused.
Additionally regains Z% of the Damage caused as Magicka (Increased Range, instant cast, 3000 – 3500 Magicka cost)

Argument: This skill can be balanced to increase Sorcerer Magicka DPS just enough to be in the same level as the other Magicka Builds and Classes. It would replace Force Pulse in our rotation and its numbers could played with to fix the class's sustain issues while also creating diversity by stimulating the creation of a Melee DPS Magicka Sorcerer. At the same time it preserves some of the original essence of Dark Exchange.

Encase:[As in Live]
Shattering Prison: [As in Live]

Restraining Prison: [As in Live]

Rune Prison: [As in Live]
Rune Cage: [As in Live]

Defensive Rune: [As in Live]

Crystal Shard: [As in Live]
Crystal Blade: [Replacing Crystal Blast] Conjure a dark crystal blade and toss it at an enemy, dealing X Physical Damage and stunning them for 2 seconds.
Casting any other Stamina ability has a 35% chance of causing your next Crystal Blade to be instant, cause the target to bleed for Y seconds, and cost 50% less Stamina.

Crystal Fragments: [As in Live]

Daedric Curse: [Swap with Daedric Mines – As in Live]
Daedric Prey: [As in Live]

Velocious Curse: Curses an enemy with a destructive rune dealing X Magic Damage every second and Y Magic Damage to all other nearby enemies after 3.5 seconds.
Has shorter duration and is converted into a true DoT.

Argument: This ability should be swapped with Daedric Mines for a few reasons, the first being both skills are daedric in nature, but Daedric Curse doesn't summon anything and is not affected in anyway by the passives in the Daedric Summoning Tree. Meanwhile curses are considered Dark Magic and Daedric Mines actually does summon something, not to mention certain passives in Summoning Tree could be tinkered to affect that skill positively.

Unholy Knowledge: [As in Live]

Blood Magic: [As in Live ]

Persistence: [As in Live]

Exploitation: [As in Live]

Daedric Summoning

Argument: Allow all Magicka Scaling Pets to gain extra damage from Spell Power and Stamina Pets to gain extra damage from Weapon Power as well. That or simply increase their damage slightly.

Summon Storm Atronach: [As in Live]
Greater Storm Atronach: Summon a storm atronach at the target location. The atronach's arrival deals X Shock Damage and stuns nearby enemies for 3 seconds. The atronach cannot move but attacks the nearest enemy.
An ally can activate Lightning Barrier, granting a energy shield to all allies in range and the atronach absorbing Y damage for 8 seconds. Atronach has increased duration, health and damage.
Upon Synergy activation, grants all allies in range a energy shield (similar to barrier).

Summon Empowering Atronach: Summon a storm atronach at the target location. The atronach's arrival deals X Shock Damage and stuns nearby enemies for 3 seconds. The atronach cannot move but attacks the nearest enemy.
An ally can activate Charged Lightning, giving both the ally, the Atronach's caster and the atronach Major Berserk, increasing their damage by 25% for 8 seconds.
Caster of the Atronach is also granted Major Berserk upon the activation of the Atronach's Synergy. Additionally, the Atronach has a powerful area effect attack.

Argument: One of the things Sorcerers currently lack is useful utility for a raid or dungeon group. Granting Minor Prophecy is simply not enough and I believe Zenimax recognizes such as true as they are buffing Negate. This changes would grant the Atronach more power and interesting utility, the first morph would sacrifice damage to shield the raid and the second morph would empower not only the ally who activated the synergy, but also the sorcerer, helping the sorcerer DPS.

Unstable Familiar: [As in the PTS]*
Summon Unstable Clannfear: Command the powers of Oblivion to send a clannfear to fight at your side. The clannfear's attacks deal X Physical Damage plus an additional 15%.
Once summoned you can activate the clannfear's special ability, tail swiping nearby enemies and taunting the primary target for Y seconds.
The clannfear remains until killed or unsummoned. (Stamina Based)

Summon Volatile Familiar: [As in PTS]*

Bound Armor: Protect yourself with the power of Oblivion, creating a suit of Daedric mail that grants Minor Resolve and Minor Ward, increasing your Armor and Spell Resistance by X.
Bound Armaments: Protect yourself with the power of Oblivion, creating a suit of Daedric mail that grants Minor Resolve and Minor Ward, increasing your Armor and Spell Resistance by X.
The armor also increases your Max Stamina by 5%.
Once summoned you can activate the armament's special ability, granting Minor Berserk, increasing all damage done by 8% for 5 seconds.

Bound Aegis: Protect yourself with the power of Oblivion, creating a suit of Daedric mail that grants Minor Resolve and Minor Ward, increasing your Armor and Spell Resistance by X.
The armor also increases your Max Health by 5%.
Once summoned you can activate the armor's special ability, healing you for 35% of your Maximum Health

Argument: Again, in an effort to diversify builds this skills would support both Stamina and Tanking sorcerers greatly. The self heal removed from Clannfear coupled with the 5% Health increase would make this a useful toggle for Tanks while Minor Berserk would make Bound Armaments tempting not just for Stamina Sorcerers but also for Magicka Sorcerers. The 5% Stamina increase would be very useful for Stam DPS, but would also be tempting for tanks needing additional resources for blocking, etc.

Summon Winged Twilight: [As in PTS]*
Summon Twilight Tormentor: [As in PTS]*

Summon Twilight Matriarch: [As in PTS]*

Daedric Mines: [As in Live]
Daedric Tomb: [As in Live]

Daedric Minefield: [As in Live]

Conjured Ward: Conjures globes of Daedric energy for protection granting you a damage shield that absorbs X damage for 6 seconds and healing your pets for Y.
Hardened Ward: Conjures globes of Daedric energy for protection granting you a damage shield that absorbs X damage for 6 seconds and healing your pets for Y.
While the ward is active, your summoned creatures are immune to damage.
Your damage shield absorbs 30% more damage.

Empowered Ward: Conjures globes of Daedric energy for protection granting you a damage shield that absorbs X damage for 6 seconds and healing your pets for Y.
While the ward is active, your summoned creatures are immune to damage.
This skill also grants Minor Intellect to you and nearby allies, increasing your Magicka Recovery by 10% for 20 seconds and has reduced cost.

Argument: With the changes proposed above and the considerable nerf to all shields in the game this skill needs a few changes to remain viable, not to mention pets need better protection, specially as Sorcerers will no longer be able to maintain their Wards up 100% of the time. The idea here is to use your ward when your pet is going low on health or when you know it and your self are about to get hit with a massive amount of damage. The choice for the sorcerer would then be between having a larger shield or having their shield cost less and provide some minor utility for their allies.

Rebate: When one of your summoned creatures or mines is killed or triggered, you are restored X Magicka.

Power Stone: [As in Live]

Daedric Protection: [As in Live]

Expert Summoner: Grants you 4/8% more maximum magicka whenever you have a Daedric Summoning pet active.

Argument: Not only would this increase sorcerer DPS by increasing the Magicka pool, it would also increase the pet's DPS and thus make them more attractive. This would also help Tank builds that utilize the Clannfear as part of their build.

Storm Calling

Overload: Charge your fists with the power of the storm. Light attacks become lightning bolts, dealing X Shock Damage and 5% additional damage.
Attacks deplete Ultimate until you run out or the ability is toggled off.
Power Overload: Charge your fists with the power of the storm. Light attacks become lightning bolts, dealing X Shock Damage and 10% additional damage.
Attacks deplete Ultimate until you run out or the ability is toggled off.

Energy Overload: Charge your fists with the power of the storm. Light attacks become lightning bolts, dealing X Shock Damage and 5% additional damage.
Attacks deplete Ultimate until you run out or the ability is toggled off and restore X Magicka and / or Stamina.

Argument: First of all, this ultimate is, in my opinion, the best sorcerer ultimate, not only because its potential burst damage but also because it unlocks a third bar. For a class with quite a few toggles, that is quite a useful feature.
That is not to say it doesn't need a few small changes. Nerfs to its damage have made prolonged use of this ultimate less advantageous, so it could use a slight increase in its power. More importantly though, this is a ultimate plagued by bugs, the most annoying one being getting 'stuck' in heavy attack mode. As its heavy attack isn't powerful enough to be used, I propose simply disabling it as it is not truly a feature for the ultimate, but a problem. Power overload should be about making the ultimate more powerful, not about range and energy overload should return the resource that is actually useful to the sorcerer using the ability or simply return both resources.

Mage's Fury: [As in Live]
Mage's Wrath: [As in Live]*

Endless Fury: Call down lightning to strike an enemy for X Shock Damage.
If target enemy's health falls below 20% within 4 seconds, an explosion deals an additional Y Shock Damage to the target and Z Shock Damage to other enemies nearby.
Applies a lighting charge that increases the damage of the next cast of Endless Fury by 10% stacking up to 3 times.

Argument: I think no one will argue that Endless Fury feels lackluster when compared to Mage's Wrath. The use of the skill doesn't feel endless at all as its special trait only activates when you kill your enemy and at least in PvE that usually mean the fight is over and you don't need the very small amount of Magicka it returns. This change would encourage spamming this ability and would be an interesting boost for extra damage against enemies that won't die to just one or two explosions. I also believe Mage's Wrath AoE 'Explosion' could use buffs.

Lightning Form: [As in Live]
Hurricane: [Replacing Thundering Presence] Manifest yourself as lightning to gain Major Resolve and Major Ward, increasing Armor and Spell Resistance by X for 20 seconds.
While active, nearby enemies will take Y Physical Damage each second. The size and damage of the periodic effect increases the longer it is active, going up to 225% more damage and up to 9 meters in size.
Grants the Minor Expedition buff at all times while it is active.

Boundless Storm: [As in Live]*

Argument: The new Stamina morph for this ability seems great, but it does make the Magicka morph feeling very lackluster. Its cost is higher, its damage is weaker and the duration of its speed buff is considerably shorter, even if the buff is more powerful. Yes, the duration is longer which justify the higher cost, but the damage of the Magicka morph for this ability could use some small buff and its range could see a small increase.

Lightning Splash: [As in Live]
Liquid Lightning: [As in Live]*

Lightning Flood: [As in Live]

Argument: This is a good skill, but Liquid Lightning can be tricky to target. I would gladly see that morph lose its AoE aspect and become a more traditional, single target, powerful DoT. It is not a necessary change though.

Surge: [As in the PTS]*
Power Surge: [As in the PTS]*

Critical Surge: [As in the PTS]*

Argument: I heavily dislike some of the changes this skill suffered this last patch, but I believe Zenimax is still working the numbers. Besides, I believe other changes proposed above would take care of the sustain issues the changes to Surge's internal cooldown and heals would cause.

Bolt Escape: [As in Live]*
Streak: [As in Live]*

Ball of lightning: [As in Live]*

Argument: I will admit this is not a skill a use a lot as my enjoyment in PvP tends to fizzle out after fighting the considerable lag of Cyrodill for about an hour. I do believe the stacking cost increase intended to punish repetitive uses of the skill should be balanced out by a damage increase for each repetitive use. The idea is to keep sorcerers from spamming the ability to run away when they are in trouble, but if the sorcerer is using this ability aggressively, that should be rewarded.

Capacitor: [As in Live]

Energized: [As in the PTS]*

Argument: This is a good passive and the change to it adding Physical Damage is a step on the right direction. I'd love to see that damage buff extended to Magic Damage as well or to all Elemental Damage instead of just Shock Damage. Again, with the changes proposed above this may not be needed.

Implosion: [As in the PTS]

Expert Mage: [As in Live]

@Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno
Please take a look at this. Right here would make the Sorc viable and fun to play. We would have group buffs that would make us useful, and have damage and a really good reason to alot pets.

If anything atleast for now make the change with bound armor mines and pet magick passives...

I am glad someone took the time to read all of that >.> Typing all of it and formating it too quite a bit of time

I agree with most of that except for pet damage immunity. That's... Too much. Increase their shields, but immortal? No.

I'd also set the endless fury to hit at a higher execute percentage (40%? I mean radiant destruction triggers at HALF health). And leave it there.

I love the dark conversion ideas, so long as it's spammable!

Yes, the idea is for Dark Exchange and morphs to replace Force Pulse in Magicka sorcerer DPS. It would be the skill to balance to increase our sustained DPS wothout causing massive issues in PvP.

As for the pets immunity, yes, you may be right, specially because of the combo of Clannfear taunt + the immunity to damage. All I want is for the shield to be powerful enough that pets would survive the bosses abilities if they were shielded (The clannfear can die when used for tanking the bosses massive hits though. It would be the sorcerer tank way of mitigating their damage, by having their pet take it and die instead.

And as to our execution, I probably wouldn't set our execute over 25% or so as it might become a problem in PvP. I think the templars execution needs nerfs instead as it is far stronger than what we have and what nightblades have.

Nah radiant is perfect where it is. Its a channeled skill and just fine as is. Ours needs a buff up to 40-50%.

Grao · May 2016

cpuScientist wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Alright, this took a little while to type down, but here it goes. Sorcerers as I think they should / could be.

Dark Magic

Negate Magic: [As in Live]
Suppression Field: [As in the PTS] Create a globe of magic suppression, dispelling enemy placed effects instantly.
Enemy players will be silenced rather than stunned.
Heals you and your allies standing within the area of effect by X.

Absorption Field: [As in the PTS] Create a globe of magic suppression, dispelling enemy placed effects instantly.
Enemy players will be silenced rather than stunned.
Deals X Magic Damage to enemies standing within the area of effect.

Dark Exchange: Drains an enemy's strength causing X Magic Damage and Healing the caster by Y% of the Damage Caused. (Ranged, instant cast, 3000 – 3500 Magicka cost)
Dark Slash: [Replacing Dark Deal] Drains an enemy's strength causing X Magic Damage and Healing the caster by Y% of the Damage Caused.
Causes Z additional Magic Damage (Melee, instant cast, 3000 – 3500 Magicka cost)

Dark Conversion: Drains an enemy's strength causing X Magic Damage and Healing the caster by Y% of the Damage Caused.
Additionally regains Z% of the Damage caused as Magicka (Increased Range, instant cast, 3000 – 3500 Magicka cost)

Argument: This skill can be balanced to increase Sorcerer Magicka DPS just enough to be in the same level as the other Magicka Builds and Classes. It would replace Force Pulse in our rotation and its numbers could played with to fix the class's sustain issues while also creating diversity by stimulating the creation of a Melee DPS Magicka Sorcerer. At the same time it preserves some of the original essence of Dark Exchange.

Encase:[As in Live]
Shattering Prison: [As in Live]

Restraining Prison: [As in Live]

Rune Prison: [As in Live]
Rune Cage: [As in Live]

Defensive Rune: [As in Live]

Crystal Shard: [As in Live]
Crystal Blade: [Replacing Crystal Blast] Conjure a dark crystal blade and toss it at an enemy, dealing X Physical Damage and stunning them for 2 seconds.
Casting any other Stamina ability has a 35% chance of causing your next Crystal Blade to be instant, cause the target to bleed for Y seconds, and cost 50% less Stamina.

Crystal Fragments: [As in Live]

Daedric Curse: [Swap with Daedric Mines – As in Live]
Daedric Prey: [As in Live]

Velocious Curse: Curses an enemy with a destructive rune dealing X Magic Damage every second and Y Magic Damage to all other nearby enemies after 3.5 seconds.
Has shorter duration and is converted into a true DoT.

Argument: This ability should be swapped with Daedric Mines for a few reasons, the first being both skills are daedric in nature, but Daedric Curse doesn't summon anything and is not affected in anyway by the passives in the Daedric Summoning Tree. Meanwhile curses are considered Dark Magic and Daedric Mines actually does summon something, not to mention certain passives in Summoning Tree could be tinkered to affect that skill positively.

Unholy Knowledge: [As in Live]

Blood Magic: [As in Live ]

Persistence: [As in Live]

Exploitation: [As in Live]

Daedric Summoning

Argument: Allow all Magicka Scaling Pets to gain extra damage from Spell Power and Stamina Pets to gain extra damage from Weapon Power as well. That or simply increase their damage slightly.

Summon Storm Atronach: [As in Live]
Greater Storm Atronach: Summon a storm atronach at the target location. The atronach's arrival deals X Shock Damage and stuns nearby enemies for 3 seconds. The atronach cannot move but attacks the nearest enemy.
An ally can activate Lightning Barrier, granting a energy shield to all allies in range and the atronach absorbing Y damage for 8 seconds. Atronach has increased duration, health and damage.
Upon Synergy activation, grants all allies in range a energy shield (similar to barrier).

Summon Empowering Atronach: Summon a storm atronach at the target location. The atronach's arrival deals X Shock Damage and stuns nearby enemies for 3 seconds. The atronach cannot move but attacks the nearest enemy.
An ally can activate Charged Lightning, giving both the ally, the Atronach's caster and the atronach Major Berserk, increasing their damage by 25% for 8 seconds.
Caster of the Atronach is also granted Major Berserk upon the activation of the Atronach's Synergy. Additionally, the Atronach has a powerful area effect attack.

Argument: One of the things Sorcerers currently lack is useful utility for a raid or dungeon group. Granting Minor Prophecy is simply not enough and I believe Zenimax recognizes such as true as they are buffing Negate. This changes would grant the Atronach more power and interesting utility, the first morph would sacrifice damage to shield the raid and the second morph would empower not only the ally who activated the synergy, but also the sorcerer, helping the sorcerer DPS.

Unstable Familiar: [As in the PTS]*
Summon Unstable Clannfear: Command the powers of Oblivion to send a clannfear to fight at your side. The clannfear's attacks deal X Physical Damage plus an additional 15%.
Once summoned you can activate the clannfear's special ability, tail swiping nearby enemies and taunting the primary target for Y seconds.
The clannfear remains until killed or unsummoned. (Stamina Based)

Summon Volatile Familiar: [As in PTS]*

Bound Armor: Protect yourself with the power of Oblivion, creating a suit of Daedric mail that grants Minor Resolve and Minor Ward, increasing your Armor and Spell Resistance by X.
Bound Armaments: Protect yourself with the power of Oblivion, creating a suit of Daedric mail that grants Minor Resolve and Minor Ward, increasing your Armor and Spell Resistance by X.
The armor also increases your Max Stamina by 5%.
Once summoned you can activate the armament's special ability, granting Minor Berserk, increasing all damage done by 8% for 5 seconds.

Bound Aegis: Protect yourself with the power of Oblivion, creating a suit of Daedric mail that grants Minor Resolve and Minor Ward, increasing your Armor and Spell Resistance by X.
The armor also increases your Max Health by 5%.
Once summoned you can activate the armor's special ability, healing you for 35% of your Maximum Health

Argument: Again, in an effort to diversify builds this skills would support both Stamina and Tanking sorcerers greatly. The self heal removed from Clannfear coupled with the 5% Health increase would make this a useful toggle for Tanks while Minor Berserk would make Bound Armaments tempting not just for Stamina Sorcerers but also for Magicka Sorcerers. The 5% Stamina increase would be very useful for Stam DPS, but would also be tempting for tanks needing additional resources for blocking, etc.

Summon Winged Twilight: [As in PTS]*
Summon Twilight Tormentor: [As in PTS]*

Summon Twilight Matriarch: [As in PTS]*

Daedric Mines: [As in Live]
Daedric Tomb: [As in Live]

Daedric Minefield: [As in Live]

Conjured Ward: Conjures globes of Daedric energy for protection granting you a damage shield that absorbs X damage for 6 seconds and healing your pets for Y.
Hardened Ward: Conjures globes of Daedric energy for protection granting you a damage shield that absorbs X damage for 6 seconds and healing your pets for Y.
While the ward is active, your summoned creatures are immune to damage.
Your damage shield absorbs 30% more damage.

Empowered Ward: Conjures globes of Daedric energy for protection granting you a damage shield that absorbs X damage for 6 seconds and healing your pets for Y.
While the ward is active, your summoned creatures are immune to damage.
This skill also grants Minor Intellect to you and nearby allies, increasing your Magicka Recovery by 10% for 20 seconds and has reduced cost.

Argument: With the changes proposed above and the considerable nerf to all shields in the game this skill needs a few changes to remain viable, not to mention pets need better protection, specially as Sorcerers will no longer be able to maintain their Wards up 100% of the time. The idea here is to use your ward when your pet is going low on health or when you know it and your self are about to get hit with a massive amount of damage. The choice for the sorcerer would then be between having a larger shield or having their shield cost less and provide some minor utility for their allies.

Rebate: When one of your summoned creatures or mines is killed or triggered, you are restored X Magicka.

Power Stone: [As in Live]

Daedric Protection: [As in Live]

Expert Summoner: Grants you 4/8% more maximum magicka whenever you have a Daedric Summoning pet active.

Argument: Not only would this increase sorcerer DPS by increasing the Magicka pool, it would also increase the pet's DPS and thus make them more attractive. This would also help Tank builds that utilize the Clannfear as part of their build.

Storm Calling

Overload: Charge your fists with the power of the storm. Light attacks become lightning bolts, dealing X Shock Damage and 5% additional damage.
Attacks deplete Ultimate until you run out or the ability is toggled off.
Power Overload: Charge your fists with the power of the storm. Light attacks become lightning bolts, dealing X Shock Damage and 10% additional damage.
Attacks deplete Ultimate until you run out or the ability is toggled off.

Energy Overload: Charge your fists with the power of the storm. Light attacks become lightning bolts, dealing X Shock Damage and 5% additional damage.
Attacks deplete Ultimate until you run out or the ability is toggled off and restore X Magicka and / or Stamina.

Argument: First of all, this ultimate is, in my opinion, the best sorcerer ultimate, not only because its potential burst damage but also because it unlocks a third bar. For a class with quite a few toggles, that is quite a useful feature.
That is not to say it doesn't need a few small changes. Nerfs to its damage have made prolonged use of this ultimate less advantageous, so it could use a slight increase in its power. More importantly though, this is a ultimate plagued by bugs, the most annoying one being getting 'stuck' in heavy attack mode. As its heavy attack isn't powerful enough to be used, I propose simply disabling it as it is not truly a feature for the ultimate, but a problem. Power overload should be about making the ultimate more powerful, not about range and energy overload should return the resource that is actually useful to the sorcerer using the ability or simply return both resources.

Mage's Fury: [As in Live]
Mage's Wrath: [As in Live]*

Endless Fury: Call down lightning to strike an enemy for X Shock Damage.
If target enemy's health falls below 20% within 4 seconds, an explosion deals an additional Y Shock Damage to the target and Z Shock Damage to other enemies nearby.
Applies a lighting charge that increases the damage of the next cast of Endless Fury by 10% stacking up to 3 times.

Argument: I think no one will argue that Endless Fury feels lackluster when compared to Mage's Wrath. The use of the skill doesn't feel endless at all as its special trait only activates when you kill your enemy and at least in PvE that usually mean the fight is over and you don't need the very small amount of Magicka it returns. This change would encourage spamming this ability and would be an interesting boost for extra damage against enemies that won't die to just one or two explosions. I also believe Mage's Wrath AoE 'Explosion' could use buffs.

Lightning Form: [As in Live]
Hurricane: [Replacing Thundering Presence] Manifest yourself as lightning to gain Major Resolve and Major Ward, increasing Armor and Spell Resistance by X for 20 seconds.
While active, nearby enemies will take Y Physical Damage each second. The size and damage of the periodic effect increases the longer it is active, going up to 225% more damage and up to 9 meters in size.
Grants the Minor Expedition buff at all times while it is active.

Boundless Storm: [As in Live]*

Argument: The new Stamina morph for this ability seems great, but it does make the Magicka morph feeling very lackluster. Its cost is higher, its damage is weaker and the duration of its speed buff is considerably shorter, even if the buff is more powerful. Yes, the duration is longer which justify the higher cost, but the damage of the Magicka morph for this ability could use some small buff and its range could see a small increase.

Lightning Splash: [As in Live]
Liquid Lightning: [As in Live]*

Lightning Flood: [As in Live]

Argument: This is a good skill, but Liquid Lightning can be tricky to target. I would gladly see that morph lose its AoE aspect and become a more traditional, single target, powerful DoT. It is not a necessary change though.

Surge: [As in the PTS]*
Power Surge: [As in the PTS]*

Critical Surge: [As in the PTS]*

Argument: I heavily dislike some of the changes this skill suffered this last patch, but I believe Zenimax is still working the numbers. Besides, I believe other changes proposed above would take care of the sustain issues the changes to Surge's internal cooldown and heals would cause.

Bolt Escape: [As in Live]*
Streak: [As in Live]*

Ball of lightning: [As in Live]*

Argument: I will admit this is not a skill a use a lot as my enjoyment in PvP tends to fizzle out after fighting the considerable lag of Cyrodill for about an hour. I do believe the stacking cost increase intended to punish repetitive uses of the skill should be balanced out by a damage increase for each repetitive use. The idea is to keep sorcerers from spamming the ability to run away when they are in trouble, but if the sorcerer is using this ability aggressively, that should be rewarded.

Capacitor: [As in Live]

Energized: [As in the PTS]*

Argument: This is a good passive and the change to it adding Physical Damage is a step on the right direction. I'd love to see that damage buff extended to Magic Damage as well or to all Elemental Damage instead of just Shock Damage. Again, with the changes proposed above this may not be needed.

Implosion: [As in the PTS]

Expert Mage: [As in Live]

@Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno
Please take a look at this. Right here would make the Sorc viable and fun to play. We would have group buffs that would make us useful, and have damage and a really good reason to alot pets.

If anything atleast for now make the change with bound armor mines and pet magick passives...

I am glad someone took the time to read all of that >.> Typing all of it and formating it too quite a bit of time

I agree with most of that except for pet damage immunity. That's... Too much. Increase their shields, but immortal? No.

I'd also set the endless fury to hit at a higher execute percentage (40%? I mean radiant destruction triggers at HALF health). And leave it there.

I love the dark conversion ideas, so long as it's spammable!

Yes, the idea is for Dark Exchange and morphs to replace Force Pulse in Magicka sorcerer DPS. It would be the skill to balance to increase our sustained DPS wothout causing massive issues in PvP.

As for the pets immunity, yes, you may be right, specially because of the combo of Clannfear taunt + the immunity to damage. All I want is for the shield to be powerful enough that pets would survive the bosses abilities if they were shielded (The clannfear can die when used for tanking the bosses massive hits though. It would be the sorcerer tank way of mitigating their damage, by having their pet take it and die instead.

And as to our execution, I probably wouldn't set our execute over 25% or so as it might become a problem in PvP. I think the templars execution needs nerfs instead as it is far stronger than what we have and what nightblades have.

Nah radiant is perfect where it is. Its a channeled skill and just fine as is. Ours needs a buff up to 40-50%.

An execution should be when an enemy is at their limit, close to dying, not when they are still at half their health, channeled or not, that Templar ability is way too powerful, the DPS it puts out is ridiculous and one of the reasons magic templars can do over 50k DPS in fights.

klink012 · May 2016

Grao wrote: »

klink012 wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

NativeJoe wrote: »

*******************************************************************************************
IF YOU DON"T UNDERSTAND THE ISSUE SORCS ARE HAVING WITH SHIELD REDUCTION AND OTHER NERFS PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A POST STATING YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND. Thanks ~Broken'Stick
*******************************************************************************************

Why is the duration 6 seconds?
Because how long does fear last? right so u shield up. the NB gets a smirk, buffs up, fears you, u run around like and idiot lose ur shields, and he gets his combo in unmitigated. A well timed Dizzy swing and ur on the ground, ult time as soon as the shields expire. IT is basically just a way to give EVERY class their own shot at us without having to go through any mitigation. and lets not forget the dirty little secret of the transmutation set. If you are healed by a person and are wearing 7/7 impen... Sorcs CANNOT heal off you because you are immune to critical strikes. Also with everyone having shields...same issue. So sorcs cannot recover hp.

Why do I personally have an issue with the changes?
It isn't that they Changed just my shields and I'm QQing in the corner. let me try to paint a picture everyone can see.

In pvp... Every class has it's own damage mitigation techniques. NBs can stealth, shuffle, dodge. Dks Traditionally are the tankiest of builds and can mitigate damage greatly; they also get flappy wings to reflect direct damage projectiles such as crystal frags, overload, crushing shock, flame clench, and that sorta thing. Templars can out mitigate, out heal, and have insane resource management to get by, Sorcs have Streak, rune prison, soft CC, and Shields as our Damage mitigation techniques.

A broad description that isn't by any means absolute. or the entire story...but u get the idea...every class has it's own WAY of dealing with heavy damage.

So I'm playing a pet build...doing Awsome btw : https://www.twitch.tv/trixytricks/v/64395447 : And then Zos comes in and goes hey... shield duration reduced by 70%, Your pet curse now is not considered a dot and thus does not benefit from CP in thermaturge (these things are 2 major nerfs to my pets survival, my resource management, my ability to not get randomly ganked, etc) ..... okay awsome..... but they weren't finished. ALSO all shields now protect against all damage, every class can now shield stack, AND we're upping the damage of proxy. (5 pets x 25% more damage + me roughly means im going to take 20k damage from it by myself...if not more) So now all my opponents just got tougher, my dps just got lower, and they put in basically a kill switch to my pet build.

understand a little bit of my frustration here?

By no means is that all they did, nor all they will do... they gotta do something about stamina sorc now...which probably means magicka sorcs of all kinds are about to lose something.

And thats just talking about this specific build. Sorc shield tanks, CC sustain sorc builds, and others are on the chopping block too. It's a wide range of builds that are going to suffer by changing a "class defining" skill.

Why do I have problems with it in pve?
basically our BIS gear (to be remotely competitive) doesn't give HP, and our defenses are paper thin... like unshielded we get one shot thin. So traditionally we used shields so we didn't have to lose THAT much dps by dropping lots of points into hp or jumping heavy armor or the like. Now in pve they are basically making us take off our shields..because there is no way to run molag kena (skills cost 33% more) and do a skill rotation and be spamming shields every 6 seconds. Which means we have to adapt... Maybe slotting a pet in the place of the shield would give enough hp room for templar healer to keep us up...idk but either way it's a massive change to sorcs, and it's a tough bullet to swallow to have to depend on the competency of another for survival.

Why do I feel like a wet noodle next to other classes in the dps role?
have you been in a parse with someone on the higher end of the dps spectrum. aka actually wearing bis gear? a NB or DK can easily pull 50k dps. Templar HEALERS doing their job can do 20k+ dps. Sorcs doing all their rotations, perfectly buffed, and in cookie cutter builds struggle to break 25k.

And remember the other classes shield stacking too...so if your doing the same ur cutting your dps for a no win scenerio. Dk's are now the best shield stackers with flappy wings, thorn shield (reflects 33% damage back), and the fact they can self heal and pretty much already dominated the damage mitigation scene prior to this anyway.

Our shields where donated to the other classes. my honest opinion is to ditch em, and try to go for something else. otherwise it is kinda like the vanilla days of wow...paladin vs paladin.

What else do I hate about DB changes as far as sorcs are concerned?
Currently we lack Complete originality in the area of Stamina sorcs (which use very few class skills and basically just use being a "sorc" as a utility)
And With magicka sorcs being the bottom of the barrel dps wise across the board and the fact our class "unique-ness" has been lost due to the fact everyone is now inheriting our damage mitigation techniques while retaining their own...
Get ganked by a shielded NB from stealth...because you forgot to spam your shield Every 6 seconds while walking around.
Sorcs are no longer the best shielders... DK's are. With flappy wings, thorn shield, and heavy damage mitigation...they're the new kings.
I hate that I'm having to rethink and recraft all my gear now. No longer can I depend on shields to get me through...but im lost as to what to do.
Currently I'm thinking with our shields being reduced to 6 seconds and it just not being feasible to refresh them constantly on a pet build or CC based sustain build for pvp we need to invest in tactics that Don't use shields... for that we basically need to take all points out of magicka and invest in health instead... utilizing the new buffs in heavy armor, and the +8% max hp for having a pet summoned we stack that with entrophy + 8% and we'll see a build that can actually take a hit from enemy players. The problem with this idea is where is our damage coming from, and more importantly how are we sustaining such a build? There is a pvp set that combined with 7/7 impren makes builds uncritable , and therefor we can't rely on critical surge for anything at all. As for our pet... he's 15k hp in DB and shieldless he's pretty much a one shot. But maybe there is a way to mitigate damage enough to let mutagens or something do the work for us.

For pve... shields are pointless, we;re already the lowest dps...refreshing a shield every 6 seconds is absolutely pointless. Infact it is a liability. So we're going to have to rely on healers, Slot a pet instead of a shield for the extra 8% hp (since our best in slot gear doesn't give us hp) and try to do our basic OL set up (molag kena and shield casting every 6 seconds doesn't work, some come DB you have to lose one or the other)

Now here's the thing... these 2 builds are not transferable from one area to the other... therefor I think those of us who do pvp mostly will have to Tank in the pve setting. and those of us pveing mostly will either have to hide in the Zerg and hope to not get hit in the cross fire, or go cookie cutter sorc.(cookie cutter sorc is using burst damage, 1 resto staff, 1 destro staff with trade mark abilities like crushing shock, mines, streak, and frags to destroy opponents)

Niche builds are basically being annihilated by this DB patch...and proxy counting pets as targets and scaling much higher much faster means pet builds are pretty much done in pvp. Also with our primary curse damage being deemed not a dot...our damage has been nerfed there as well since we can't invest in thermaturge to get that higher amount of damage. So yeah... think pet builds are done for now.

CC sustain builds may still be viable but we're going to need to highly consider not running shields and instead running hp instead because you can't take an even larger dps hit on a low dps build.

Anyway I think since Stamina sorcs are going to be getting some stuff, Magick sorcs need some attention to their passives and abilities as well.
We have lost our Sorc-ness, and need a new identity. Now personally I kinda like the GW2 idea with the mesmer class... Lots of pets, executes, and CC/bleed/confusion/condition effects to take down opponents. For non pet builds I like the idea of having more AOE static (this is my house) type of damage builds to combat the whole invisible/untargetable/shuffle/shielded builds that are going to be new meta. AS for passives... Anything that gives us more life and more life steal at this point.. we're totally screwed on that end without shields.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @Wrobel
This is where the class is left. Perfectly explains it. Now do something about it.

NativeJoe wrote: »

So just throwing this out there... We're supposed to spam shields constantly... how is this going to work with the poisen system?

...just throwing a little logic out here guys...but while this too doesn't effect people that instantly kill their opponents like gankers, or people that stack attacks like cookie cutter sorcs... but for pet builds, sustain builds, and anything else niche... it's going to be border line unfeasible. And this is just an example... there are stronger poisons out there.

100% agree with the above posts. I've played on and off since beta (70/30 split PVP to PVE). Time to make a Stamina NB and join over half the of the PVP population. That's if I continue to play ESO. The sheer lack of direction, multiple COMPLETE overhauls, and no character progression (Champion Points is an utter failure in my book).

Leave Sorc Ward's at 20 seconds.
Leave Harness Magicka the way it is.
DO NOT change Boneshield to absorb magicka.
Give the Mages Guild skill line a grappling hook like you did the Fighters Guild. (assaulting keeps and other structures will be soooo much fun!)

***Install a major and minor shielding system. Make Sorc ward a Major shield along with HEALING WARD (shields that can absorb both magicka and physical dmg should be Major) the other shields should be minor. ***

Revamp multiple Sorcerer skills and passives. Too many to list without the skills in front of me, but from reading through this thread you'll get the idea.

Character advancement - Make DLC with quest lines to further your class skill lines. Could do this in many ways. Add to the existing skill lines. Create more class skill trees / lines. Have a quest line that FORCES you to choose between 2 new class skill trees, you cannot have both! Do something to make uniqueness amongst the same classes. MAYBE even add a 3rd Morph to skills??

Spend major resources on improving every aspect of the overland PVP. IC will be fun for a little while come DB, but vicious death bombs will get very annoying. Your players LOVE the open world of Cyrodiil.

Sincerely,

Kastor Spiritsong - Beloved Sorcerer of few and Destroyer of many

You are going a little over board there. I doubt they will give each skill a third morph as that would mean not only considerable scripting changes but also quite a bit of redesigning of the game's UI. Besides, it is not truly necessary, two morphs per skill is definitely enough as long as those morphs are attractive and interesting.

As for improving the PvP environment, I do agree with you, unfortunately that currently seems like a hardware issue more than a scripting problem. The server housing PvP is not powerful enough to handle the rendering of the scenario + all the AoE particles and spell particles when the server is full. The amount of graphic information and the number crunching is just too much. ZoS has been trying different fixes for that, but clearly it isn't an easy to solve problem and upgrading the server, which probably would be the best alternative, is simply too expensive.

Now... About the shields. True, a shield buff system could implemented to prevent or regulate shield stacking, but it would have to be far more complex than you described. First there are two different degrees of shielding, shields provided by Skills and shields provided by Ultimates. Ultimate shields have to be more powerful.

On top of that there are three different kinds of shields, energy shields that absorb all damage, physical shields which block physical damage and magical shields that prevent magical damage. You'd need different buffs for each one of those to maintain diversity between the different shields. Now, it would be possible to make so only one of this 6 could be active at the same time and that would prevent shield stacking, but I am not sure how happy PvPers would be about such change.

My comments were feedback for the Dev's and ZoS, not you. Stop drinking their kool-aid. DLC is for content, progression, overhaul old areas, adding features, etc. This is what they are paid to do, why we give them money. Adding a UI image and possibly spell effects? That's going overboard? Seriously? Again, things aren't as difficult as ZoS and you make them out to be.

And of course Ultimate shields should be unchanged and stack with the major and minor shields. I kind of figured that would just be a given. People CRY and complain about SORC SHIELD STACKING. Its the bad Sorcs who use 3 shields anyways... So again, put Hardened Ward and Healing Ward as MAJOR shields because they absorb both damage types. Leave the others as Minor and leave the Ultimates alone. This change alone would solve half of the whining on PVP about Sorc shield stacking.

klink012 · May 2016

Grao wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Alright, this took a little while to type down, but here it goes. Sorcerers as I think they should / could be.

Dark Magic

Negate Magic: [As in Live]
Suppression Field: [As in the PTS] Create a globe of magic suppression, dispelling enemy placed effects instantly.
Enemy players will be silenced rather than stunned.
Heals you and your allies standing within the area of effect by X.

Absorption Field: [As in the PTS] Create a globe of magic suppression, dispelling enemy placed effects instantly.
Enemy players will be silenced rather than stunned.
Deals X Magic Damage to enemies standing within the area of effect.

Dark Exchange: Drains an enemy's strength causing X Magic Damage and Healing the caster by Y% of the Damage Caused. (Ranged, instant cast, 3000 – 3500 Magicka cost)
Dark Slash: [Replacing Dark Deal] Drains an enemy's strength causing X Magic Damage and Healing the caster by Y% of the Damage Caused.
Causes Z additional Magic Damage (Melee, instant cast, 3000 – 3500 Magicka cost)

Dark Conversion: Drains an enemy's strength causing X Magic Damage and Healing the caster by Y% of the Damage Caused.
Additionally regains Z% of the Damage caused as Magicka (Increased Range, instant cast, 3000 – 3500 Magicka cost)

Argument: This skill can be balanced to increase Sorcerer Magicka DPS just enough to be in the same level as the other Magicka Builds and Classes. It would replace Force Pulse in our rotation and its numbers could played with to fix the class's sustain issues while also creating diversity by stimulating the creation of a Melee DPS Magicka Sorcerer. At the same time it preserves some of the original essence of Dark Exchange.

Encase:[As in Live]
Shattering Prison: [As in Live]

Restraining Prison: [As in Live]

Rune Prison: [As in Live]
Rune Cage: [As in Live]

Defensive Rune: [As in Live]

Crystal Shard: [As in Live]
Crystal Blade: [Replacing Crystal Blast] Conjure a dark crystal blade and toss it at an enemy, dealing X Physical Damage and stunning them for 2 seconds.
Casting any other Stamina ability has a 35% chance of causing your next Crystal Blade to be instant, cause the target to bleed for Y seconds, and cost 50% less Stamina.

Crystal Fragments: [As in Live]

Daedric Curse: [Swap with Daedric Mines – As in Live]
Daedric Prey: [As in Live]

Velocious Curse: Curses an enemy with a destructive rune dealing X Magic Damage every second and Y Magic Damage to all other nearby enemies after 3.5 seconds.
Has shorter duration and is converted into a true DoT.

Argument: This ability should be swapped with Daedric Mines for a few reasons, the first being both skills are daedric in nature, but Daedric Curse doesn't summon anything and is not affected in anyway by the passives in the Daedric Summoning Tree. Meanwhile curses are considered Dark Magic and Daedric Mines actually does summon something, not to mention certain passives in Summoning Tree could be tinkered to affect that skill positively.

Unholy Knowledge: [As in Live]

Blood Magic: [As in Live ]

Persistence: [As in Live]

Exploitation: [As in Live]

Daedric Summoning

Argument: Allow all Magicka Scaling Pets to gain extra damage from Spell Power and Stamina Pets to gain extra damage from Weapon Power as well. That or simply increase their damage slightly.

Summon Storm Atronach: [As in Live]
Greater Storm Atronach: Summon a storm atronach at the target location. The atronach's arrival deals X Shock Damage and stuns nearby enemies for 3 seconds. The atronach cannot move but attacks the nearest enemy.
An ally can activate Lightning Barrier, granting a energy shield to all allies in range and the atronach absorbing Y damage for 8 seconds. Atronach has increased duration, health and damage.
Upon Synergy activation, grants all allies in range a energy shield (similar to barrier).

Summon Empowering Atronach: Summon a storm atronach at the target location. The atronach's arrival deals X Shock Damage and stuns nearby enemies for 3 seconds. The atronach cannot move but attacks the nearest enemy.
An ally can activate Charged Lightning, giving both the ally, the Atronach's caster and the atronach Major Berserk, increasing their damage by 25% for 8 seconds.
Caster of the Atronach is also granted Major Berserk upon the activation of the Atronach's Synergy. Additionally, the Atronach has a powerful area effect attack.

Argument: One of the things Sorcerers currently lack is useful utility for a raid or dungeon group. Granting Minor Prophecy is simply not enough and I believe Zenimax recognizes such as true as they are buffing Negate. This changes would grant the Atronach more power and interesting utility, the first morph would sacrifice damage to shield the raid and the second morph would empower not only the ally who activated the synergy, but also the sorcerer, helping the sorcerer DPS.

Unstable Familiar: [As in the PTS]*
Summon Unstable Clannfear: Command the powers of Oblivion to send a clannfear to fight at your side. The clannfear's attacks deal X Physical Damage plus an additional 15%.
Once summoned you can activate the clannfear's special ability, tail swiping nearby enemies and taunting the primary target for Y seconds.
The clannfear remains until killed or unsummoned. (Stamina Based)

Summon Volatile Familiar: [As in PTS]*

Bound Armor: Protect yourself with the power of Oblivion, creating a suit of Daedric mail that grants Minor Resolve and Minor Ward, increasing your Armor and Spell Resistance by X.
Bound Armaments: Protect yourself with the power of Oblivion, creating a suit of Daedric mail that grants Minor Resolve and Minor Ward, increasing your Armor and Spell Resistance by X.
The armor also increases your Max Stamina by 5%.
Once summoned you can activate the armament's special ability, granting Minor Berserk, increasing all damage done by 8% for 5 seconds.

Bound Aegis: Protect yourself with the power of Oblivion, creating a suit of Daedric mail that grants Minor Resolve and Minor Ward, increasing your Armor and Spell Resistance by X.
The armor also increases your Max Health by 5%.
Once summoned you can activate the armor's special ability, healing you for 35% of your Maximum Health

Argument: Again, in an effort to diversify builds this skills would support both Stamina and Tanking sorcerers greatly. The self heal removed from Clannfear coupled with the 5% Health increase would make this a useful toggle for Tanks while Minor Berserk would make Bound Armaments tempting not just for Stamina Sorcerers but also for Magicka Sorcerers. The 5% Stamina increase would be very useful for Stam DPS, but would also be tempting for tanks needing additional resources for blocking, etc.

Summon Winged Twilight: [As in PTS]*
Summon Twilight Tormentor: [As in PTS]*

Summon Twilight Matriarch: [As in PTS]*

Daedric Mines: [As in Live]
Daedric Tomb: [As in Live]

Daedric Minefield: [As in Live]

Conjured Ward: Conjures globes of Daedric energy for protection granting you a damage shield that absorbs X damage for 6 seconds and healing your pets for Y.
Hardened Ward: Conjures globes of Daedric energy for protection granting you a damage shield that absorbs X damage for 6 seconds and healing your pets for Y.
While the ward is active, your summoned creatures are immune to damage.
Your damage shield absorbs 30% more damage.

Empowered Ward: Conjures globes of Daedric energy for protection granting you a damage shield that absorbs X damage for 6 seconds and healing your pets for Y.
While the ward is active, your summoned creatures are immune to damage.
This skill also grants Minor Intellect to you and nearby allies, increasing your Magicka Recovery by 10% for 20 seconds and has reduced cost.

Argument: With the changes proposed above and the considerable nerf to all shields in the game this skill needs a few changes to remain viable, not to mention pets need better protection, specially as Sorcerers will no longer be able to maintain their Wards up 100% of the time. The idea here is to use your ward when your pet is going low on health or when you know it and your self are about to get hit with a massive amount of damage. The choice for the sorcerer would then be between having a larger shield or having their shield cost less and provide some minor utility for their allies.

Rebate: When one of your summoned creatures or mines is killed or triggered, you are restored X Magicka.

Power Stone: [As in Live]

Daedric Protection: [As in Live]

Expert Summoner: Grants you 4/8% more maximum magicka whenever you have a Daedric Summoning pet active.

Argument: Not only would this increase sorcerer DPS by increasing the Magicka pool, it would also increase the pet's DPS and thus make them more attractive. This would also help Tank builds that utilize the Clannfear as part of their build.

Storm Calling

Overload: Charge your fists with the power of the storm. Light attacks become lightning bolts, dealing X Shock Damage and 5% additional damage.
Attacks deplete Ultimate until you run out or the ability is toggled off.
Power Overload: Charge your fists with the power of the storm. Light attacks become lightning bolts, dealing X Shock Damage and 10% additional damage.
Attacks deplete Ultimate until you run out or the ability is toggled off.

Energy Overload: Charge your fists with the power of the storm. Light attacks become lightning bolts, dealing X Shock Damage and 5% additional damage.
Attacks deplete Ultimate until you run out or the ability is toggled off and restore X Magicka and / or Stamina.

Argument: First of all, this ultimate is, in my opinion, the best sorcerer ultimate, not only because its potential burst damage but also because it unlocks a third bar. For a class with quite a few toggles, that is quite a useful feature.
That is not to say it doesn't need a few small changes. Nerfs to its damage have made prolonged use of this ultimate less advantageous, so it could use a slight increase in its power. More importantly though, this is a ultimate plagued by bugs, the most annoying one being getting 'stuck' in heavy attack mode. As its heavy attack isn't powerful enough to be used, I propose simply disabling it as it is not truly a feature for the ultimate, but a problem. Power overload should be about making the ultimate more powerful, not about range and energy overload should return the resource that is actually useful to the sorcerer using the ability or simply return both resources.

Mage's Fury: [As in Live]
Mage's Wrath: [As in Live]*

Endless Fury: Call down lightning to strike an enemy for X Shock Damage.
If target enemy's health falls below 20% within 4 seconds, an explosion deals an additional Y Shock Damage to the target and Z Shock Damage to other enemies nearby.
Applies a lighting charge that increases the damage of the next cast of Endless Fury by 10% stacking up to 3 times.

Argument: I think no one will argue that Endless Fury feels lackluster when compared to Mage's Wrath. The use of the skill doesn't feel endless at all as its special trait only activates when you kill your enemy and at least in PvE that usually mean the fight is over and you don't need the very small amount of Magicka it returns. This change would encourage spamming this ability and would be an interesting boost for extra damage against enemies that won't die to just one or two explosions. I also believe Mage's Wrath AoE 'Explosion' could use buffs.

Lightning Form: [As in Live]
Hurricane: [Replacing Thundering Presence] Manifest yourself as lightning to gain Major Resolve and Major Ward, increasing Armor and Spell Resistance by X for 20 seconds.
While active, nearby enemies will take Y Physical Damage each second. The size and damage of the periodic effect increases the longer it is active, going up to 225% more damage and up to 9 meters in size.
Grants the Minor Expedition buff at all times while it is active.

Boundless Storm: [As in Live]*

Argument: The new Stamina morph for this ability seems great, but it does make the Magicka morph feeling very lackluster. Its cost is higher, its damage is weaker and the duration of its speed buff is considerably shorter, even if the buff is more powerful. Yes, the duration is longer which justify the higher cost, but the damage of the Magicka morph for this ability could use some small buff and its range could see a small increase.

Lightning Splash: [As in Live]
Liquid Lightning: [As in Live]*

Lightning Flood: [As in Live]

Argument: This is a good skill, but Liquid Lightning can be tricky to target. I would gladly see that morph lose its AoE aspect and become a more traditional, single target, powerful DoT. It is not a necessary change though.

Surge: [As in the PTS]*
Power Surge: [As in the PTS]*

Critical Surge: [As in the PTS]*

Argument: I heavily dislike some of the changes this skill suffered this last patch, but I believe Zenimax is still working the numbers. Besides, I believe other changes proposed above would take care of the sustain issues the changes to Surge's internal cooldown and heals would cause.

Bolt Escape: [As in Live]*
Streak: [As in Live]*

Ball of lightning: [As in Live]*

Argument: I will admit this is not a skill a use a lot as my enjoyment in PvP tends to fizzle out after fighting the considerable lag of Cyrodill for about an hour. I do believe the stacking cost increase intended to punish repetitive uses of the skill should be balanced out by a damage increase for each repetitive use. The idea is to keep sorcerers from spamming the ability to run away when they are in trouble, but if the sorcerer is using this ability aggressively, that should be rewarded.

Capacitor: [As in Live]

Energized: [As in the PTS]*

Argument: This is a good passive and the change to it adding Physical Damage is a step on the right direction. I'd love to see that damage buff extended to Magic Damage as well or to all Elemental Damage instead of just Shock Damage. Again, with the changes proposed above this may not be needed.

Implosion: [As in the PTS]

Expert Mage: [As in Live]

@Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno
Please take a look at this. Right here would make the Sorc viable and fun to play. We would have group buffs that would make us useful, and have damage and a really good reason to alot pets.

If anything atleast for now make the change with bound armor mines and pet magick passives...

I am glad someone took the time to read all of that >.> Typing all of it and formating it too quite a bit of time

I agree with most of that except for pet damage immunity. That's... Too much. Increase their shields, but immortal? No.

I'd also set the endless fury to hit at a higher execute percentage (40%? I mean radiant destruction triggers at HALF health). And leave it there.

I love the dark conversion ideas, so long as it's spammable!

Yes, the idea is for Dark Exchange and morphs to replace Force Pulse in Magicka sorcerer DPS. It would be the skill to balance to increase our sustained DPS wothout causing massive issues in PvP.

As for the pets immunity, yes, you may be right, specially because of the combo of Clannfear taunt + the immunity to damage. All I want is for the shield to be powerful enough that pets would survive the bosses abilities if they were shielded (The clannfear can die when used for tanking the bosses massive hits though. It would be the sorcerer tank way of mitigating their damage, by having their pet take it and die instead.

And as to our execution, I probably wouldn't set our execute over 25% or so as it might become a problem in PvP. I think the templars execution needs nerfs instead as it is far stronger than what we have and what nightblades have.

Nah radiant is perfect where it is. Its a channeled skill and just fine as is. Ours needs a buff up to 40-50%.

An execution should be when an enemy is at their limit, close to dying, not when they are still at half their health, channeled or not, that Templar ability is way too powerful, the DPS it puts out is ridiculous and one of the reasons magic templars can do over 50k DPS in fights.

I never understood why Templars were given an upgraded version of an Ultimate (Soul Assault) as a normal ability. With an execute!!!

Grao · May 2016

klink012 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

klink012 wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

NativeJoe wrote: »

*******************************************************************************************
IF YOU DON"T UNDERSTAND THE ISSUE SORCS ARE HAVING WITH SHIELD REDUCTION AND OTHER NERFS PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A POST STATING YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND. Thanks ~Broken'Stick
*******************************************************************************************

Why is the duration 6 seconds?
Because how long does fear last? right so u shield up. the NB gets a smirk, buffs up, fears you, u run around like and idiot lose ur shields, and he gets his combo in unmitigated. A well timed Dizzy swing and ur on the ground, ult time as soon as the shields expire. IT is basically just a way to give EVERY class their own shot at us without having to go through any mitigation. and lets not forget the dirty little secret of the transmutation set. If you are healed by a person and are wearing 7/7 impen... Sorcs CANNOT heal off you because you are immune to critical strikes. Also with everyone having shields...same issue. So sorcs cannot recover hp.

Why do I personally have an issue with the changes?
It isn't that they Changed just my shields and I'm QQing in the corner. let me try to paint a picture everyone can see.

In pvp... Every class has it's own damage mitigation techniques. NBs can stealth, shuffle, dodge. Dks Traditionally are the tankiest of builds and can mitigate damage greatly; they also get flappy wings to reflect direct damage projectiles such as crystal frags, overload, crushing shock, flame clench, and that sorta thing. Templars can out mitigate, out heal, and have insane resource management to get by, Sorcs have Streak, rune prison, soft CC, and Shields as our Damage mitigation techniques.

A broad description that isn't by any means absolute. or the entire story...but u get the idea...every class has it's own WAY of dealing with heavy damage.

So I'm playing a pet build...doing Awsome btw : https://www.twitch.tv/trixytricks/v/64395447 : And then Zos comes in and goes hey... shield duration reduced by 70%, Your pet curse now is not considered a dot and thus does not benefit from CP in thermaturge (these things are 2 major nerfs to my pets survival, my resource management, my ability to not get randomly ganked, etc) ..... okay awsome..... but they weren't finished. ALSO all shields now protect against all damage, every class can now shield stack, AND we're upping the damage of proxy. (5 pets x 25% more damage + me roughly means im going to take 20k damage from it by myself...if not more) So now all my opponents just got tougher, my dps just got lower, and they put in basically a kill switch to my pet build.

understand a little bit of my frustration here?

By no means is that all they did, nor all they will do... they gotta do something about stamina sorc now...which probably means magicka sorcs of all kinds are about to lose something.

And thats just talking about this specific build. Sorc shield tanks, CC sustain sorc builds, and others are on the chopping block too. It's a wide range of builds that are going to suffer by changing a "class defining" skill.

Why do I have problems with it in pve?
basically our BIS gear (to be remotely competitive) doesn't give HP, and our defenses are paper thin... like unshielded we get one shot thin. So traditionally we used shields so we didn't have to lose THAT much dps by dropping lots of points into hp or jumping heavy armor or the like. Now in pve they are basically making us take off our shields..because there is no way to run molag kena (skills cost 33% more) and do a skill rotation and be spamming shields every 6 seconds. Which means we have to adapt... Maybe slotting a pet in the place of the shield would give enough hp room for templar healer to keep us up...idk but either way it's a massive change to sorcs, and it's a tough bullet to swallow to have to depend on the competency of another for survival.

Why do I feel like a wet noodle next to other classes in the dps role?
have you been in a parse with someone on the higher end of the dps spectrum. aka actually wearing bis gear? a NB or DK can easily pull 50k dps. Templar HEALERS doing their job can do 20k+ dps. Sorcs doing all their rotations, perfectly buffed, and in cookie cutter builds struggle to break 25k.

And remember the other classes shield stacking too...so if your doing the same ur cutting your dps for a no win scenerio. Dk's are now the best shield stackers with flappy wings, thorn shield (reflects 33% damage back), and the fact they can self heal and pretty much already dominated the damage mitigation scene prior to this anyway.

Our shields where donated to the other classes. my honest opinion is to ditch em, and try to go for something else. otherwise it is kinda like the vanilla days of wow...paladin vs paladin.

What else do I hate about DB changes as far as sorcs are concerned?
Currently we lack Complete originality in the area of Stamina sorcs (which use very few class skills and basically just use being a "sorc" as a utility)
And With magicka sorcs being the bottom of the barrel dps wise across the board and the fact our class "unique-ness" has been lost due to the fact everyone is now inheriting our damage mitigation techniques while retaining their own...
Get ganked by a shielded NB from stealth...because you forgot to spam your shield Every 6 seconds while walking around.
Sorcs are no longer the best shielders... DK's are. With flappy wings, thorn shield, and heavy damage mitigation...they're the new kings.
I hate that I'm having to rethink and recraft all my gear now. No longer can I depend on shields to get me through...but im lost as to what to do.
Currently I'm thinking with our shields being reduced to 6 seconds and it just not being feasible to refresh them constantly on a pet build or CC based sustain build for pvp we need to invest in tactics that Don't use shields... for that we basically need to take all points out of magicka and invest in health instead... utilizing the new buffs in heavy armor, and the +8% max hp for having a pet summoned we stack that with entrophy + 8% and we'll see a build that can actually take a hit from enemy players. The problem with this idea is where is our damage coming from, and more importantly how are we sustaining such a build? There is a pvp set that combined with 7/7 impren makes builds uncritable , and therefor we can't rely on critical surge for anything at all. As for our pet... he's 15k hp in DB and shieldless he's pretty much a one shot. But maybe there is a way to mitigate damage enough to let mutagens or something do the work for us.

For pve... shields are pointless, we;re already the lowest dps...refreshing a shield every 6 seconds is absolutely pointless. Infact it is a liability. So we're going to have to rely on healers, Slot a pet instead of a shield for the extra 8% hp (since our best in slot gear doesn't give us hp) and try to do our basic OL set up (molag kena and shield casting every 6 seconds doesn't work, some come DB you have to lose one or the other)

Now here's the thing... these 2 builds are not transferable from one area to the other... therefor I think those of us who do pvp mostly will have to Tank in the pve setting. and those of us pveing mostly will either have to hide in the Zerg and hope to not get hit in the cross fire, or go cookie cutter sorc.(cookie cutter sorc is using burst damage, 1 resto staff, 1 destro staff with trade mark abilities like crushing shock, mines, streak, and frags to destroy opponents)

Niche builds are basically being annihilated by this DB patch...and proxy counting pets as targets and scaling much higher much faster means pet builds are pretty much done in pvp. Also with our primary curse damage being deemed not a dot...our damage has been nerfed there as well since we can't invest in thermaturge to get that higher amount of damage. So yeah... think pet builds are done for now.

CC sustain builds may still be viable but we're going to need to highly consider not running shields and instead running hp instead because you can't take an even larger dps hit on a low dps build.

Anyway I think since Stamina sorcs are going to be getting some stuff, Magick sorcs need some attention to their passives and abilities as well.
We have lost our Sorc-ness, and need a new identity. Now personally I kinda like the GW2 idea with the mesmer class... Lots of pets, executes, and CC/bleed/confusion/condition effects to take down opponents. For non pet builds I like the idea of having more AOE static (this is my house) type of damage builds to combat the whole invisible/untargetable/shuffle/shielded builds that are going to be new meta. AS for passives... Anything that gives us more life and more life steal at this point.. we're totally screwed on that end without shields.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @Wrobel
This is where the class is left. Perfectly explains it. Now do something about it.

NativeJoe wrote: »

So just throwing this out there... We're supposed to spam shields constantly... how is this going to work with the poisen system?

...just throwing a little logic out here guys...but while this too doesn't effect people that instantly kill their opponents like gankers, or people that stack attacks like cookie cutter sorcs... but for pet builds, sustain builds, and anything else niche... it's going to be border line unfeasible. And this is just an example... there are stronger poisons out there.

100% agree with the above posts. I've played on and off since beta (70/30 split PVP to PVE). Time to make a Stamina NB and join over half the of the PVP population. That's if I continue to play ESO. The sheer lack of direction, multiple COMPLETE overhauls, and no character progression (Champion Points is an utter failure in my book).

Leave Sorc Ward's at 20 seconds.
Leave Harness Magicka the way it is.
DO NOT change Boneshield to absorb magicka.
Give the Mages Guild skill line a grappling hook like you did the Fighters Guild. (assaulting keeps and other structures will be soooo much fun!)

***Install a major and minor shielding system. Make Sorc ward a Major shield along with HEALING WARD (shields that can absorb both magicka and physical dmg should be Major) the other shields should be minor. ***

Revamp multiple Sorcerer skills and passives. Too many to list without the skills in front of me, but from reading through this thread you'll get the idea.

Character advancement - Make DLC with quest lines to further your class skill lines. Could do this in many ways. Add to the existing skill lines. Create more class skill trees / lines. Have a quest line that FORCES you to choose between 2 new class skill trees, you cannot have both! Do something to make uniqueness amongst the same classes. MAYBE even add a 3rd Morph to skills??

Spend major resources on improving every aspect of the overland PVP. IC will be fun for a little while come DB, but vicious death bombs will get very annoying. Your players LOVE the open world of Cyrodiil.

Sincerely,

Kastor Spiritsong - Beloved Sorcerer of few and Destroyer of many

You are going a little over board there. I doubt they will give each skill a third morph as that would mean not only considerable scripting changes but also quite a bit of redesigning of the game's UI. Besides, it is not truly necessary, two morphs per skill is definitely enough as long as those morphs are attractive and interesting.

As for improving the PvP environment, I do agree with you, unfortunately that currently seems like a hardware issue more than a scripting problem. The server housing PvP is not powerful enough to handle the rendering of the scenario + all the AoE particles and spell particles when the server is full. The amount of graphic information and the number crunching is just too much. ZoS has been trying different fixes for that, but clearly it isn't an easy to solve problem and upgrading the server, which probably would be the best alternative, is simply too expensive.

Now... About the shields. True, a shield buff system could implemented to prevent or regulate shield stacking, but it would have to be far more complex than you described. First there are two different degrees of shielding, shields provided by Skills and shields provided by Ultimates. Ultimate shields have to be more powerful.

On top of that there are three different kinds of shields, energy shields that absorb all damage, physical shields which block physical damage and magical shields that prevent magical damage. You'd need different buffs for each one of those to maintain diversity between the different shields. Now, it would be possible to make so only one of this 6 could be active at the same time and that would prevent shield stacking, but I am not sure how happy PvPers would be about such change.

My comments were feedback for the Dev's and ZoS, not you. Stop drinking their kool-aid. DLC is for content, progression, overhaul old areas, adding features, etc. This is what they are paid to do, why we give them money. Adding a UI image and possibly spell effects? That's going overboard? Seriously? Again, things aren't as difficult as ZoS and you make them out to be.

And of course Ultimate shields should be unchanged and stack with the major and minor shields. I kind of figured that would just be a given. People CRY and complain about SORC SHIELD STACKING. Its the bad Sorcs who use 3 shields anyways... So again, put Hardened Ward and Healing Ward as MAJOR shields because they absorb both damage types. Leave the others as Minor and leave the Ultimates alone. This change alone would solve half of the whining on PVP about Sorc shield stacking.

I am sorry you don't want to hear other people's opinions on what you think, but this is a discussion forum, discussion being my point. At this stage, 15 days before the release of the new DLC the best we can hope is for them change one or two useless skill and adjust some numbers, there is absolutely no chance of them overhauling the entire current system and create a third morph for every ability currently available. We are trying to give reasonable feedback to get results and save this class, the keyword being reasonable.

As for shielding, Zenimax already demonstrated that when they turn something a skill give into one of those non stacking buffs that affects all abilities, ultimates included, they will be consistent on that. If they ever follow your idea for shielding, Major shields will be for ultimates and minor shields for normal skills and item sets.