Official Feedback Thread for Sorcerers

Derra

Critsurge and powersurge are kind of a mixed bag.

If they are supposed to not be reduced by battlespirit their values are solid and critsurge might even be too strong of a heal. If battlespirit having no effect is a bug then powersurge is definetly too weak (even worse than it is currently on live) for a pvp heal.

For pve powersurge is simply nerfed into oblivion as a heal.

Grao

Yay, stamina buffs and magicka nerfs!

Great job @Wrobel, as if magicka sorcerers weren't already horrible...

Glantir

They could change one passive into something that give you a bonus for every toggle skill in your bar e.g. for every toggle skill in your skillbar you gain additional 1%/2% on all max stats.

Only making a skill not toggle change nothing, I still have Inner Light on both bars for the crit buff ^^

Smolt

Just revert the shield duration nerf, and make shields crit-able.

potirondb16_ESO

Glantir wrote: »

They could change one passive into something that give you a bonus for every toggle skill in your bar e.g. for every toggle skill in your skillbar you gain additional 1%/2% on all max stats.

Only making a skill not toggle change nothing, I still have Inner Light on both bars for the crit buff ^^

I'm not sure that would fix all the issue, I really believe the toggle we are given to use is the issue, not how toggle works. Bound Armor should be design for Tank and Stamina while pet on the other hand should grant 8% more magika, that way if you are running a stam pet build you get a nice bonus to your magika in order to let you do more shielding and also more conversion. And you can also choose if you want more health or more stam coming from your bound armor.

Then as a magika you can choose which pet you want and that would become your toggle. As a Tank you don't have much toggle to work around and as a stam build well it wouldn't change much your build and since the stamina bonus is nicer then the magika one (+40% heavy Attack instead of minor spell protection). I will even go further make the twillight give 8% more magika while the Clanfear give 8% more stamina, and let the bound armor as told earlier.

Also that way magika build get one more slot open for dps ability/utility because while our armor was not giving us anything to work with except ressource (which is nice but ... still ask for a lot of bar space while other class can usually get a more deverse build).

And I kind of believe that even if pet are now becoming relevant at all time for Sorc (or at least to slot one) we can actually get more variety from our build with that then with bound armor. Also it gives us an option either for a utility pet or a domage pet for both stamina and magika.

And level the Plainfield for those who want a pet build with the possibility of 8% to all type of ressource.

If you like it please just type the insightfull

dagonbeer

So shield nerf and power surge nerf in one go huh?

I guess the removal of vet ranks is the real balancing fix here. Everyone's free to play another class without grinding them up to vr16, pity though since I liked my sorc's aesthetics the most.

ArvenAldmeri

I guess I reroll magblade DPS for next patch...

Joy_Division

Smolt wrote: »

Just revert the shield duration nerf, and make shields crit-able.

I'd rather my sorc have the short duration shields that are not crit-able.

potirondb16_ESO

lassitershawn wrote: »

NativeJoe wrote: »

*******************************************************************************************
IF YOU DON"T UNDERSTAND THE ISSUE SORCS ARE HAVING WITH SHIELD REDUCTION AND OTHER NERFS PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A POST STATING YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND. Thanks ~Broken'Stick
*******************************************************************************************


Why is the duration 6 seconds?
Because how long does fear last? right so u shield up. the NB gets a smirk, buffs up, fears you, u run around like and idiot lose ur shields, and he gets his combo in unmitigated. A well timed Dizzy swing and ur on the ground, ult time as soon as the shields expire. IT is basically just a way to give EVERY class their own shot at us without having to go through any mitigation. and lets not forget the dirty little secret of the transmutation set. If you are healed by a person and are wearing 7/7 impen... Sorcs CANNOT heal off you because you are immune to critical strikes. Also with everyone having shields...same issue. So sorcs cannot recover hp.

Why do I personally have an issue with the changes?
It isn't that they Changed just my shields and I'm QQing in the corner. let me try to paint a picture everyone can see.

In pvp... Every class has it's own damage mitigation techniques. NBs can stealth, shuffle, dodge. Dks Traditionally are the tankiest of builds and can mitigate damage greatly; they also get flappy wings to reflect direct damage projectiles such as crystal frags, overload, crushing shock, flame clench, and that sorta thing. Templars can out mitigate, out heal, and have insane resource management to get by, Sorcs have Streak, rune prison, soft CC, and Shields as our Damage mitigation techniques.

A broad description that isn't by any means absolute. or the entire story...but u get the idea...every class has it's own WAY of dealing with heavy damage.

So I'm playing a pet build...doing Awsome btw : https://www.twitch.tv/trixytricks/v/64395447 : And then Zos comes in and goes hey... shield duration reduced by 70%, Your pet curse now is not considered a dot and thus does not benefit from CP in thermaturge (these things are 2 major nerfs to my pets survival, my resource management, my ability to not get randomly ganked, etc) ..... okay awsome..... but they weren't finished. ALSO all shields now protect against all damage, every class can now shield stack, AND we're upping the damage of proxy. (5 pets x 25% more damage + me roughly means im going to take 20k damage from it by myself...if not more) So now all my opponents just got tougher, my dps just got lower, and they put in basically a kill switch to my pet build.

understand a little bit of my frustration here?

By no means is that all they did, nor all they will do... they gotta do something about stamina sorc now...which probably means magicka sorcs of all kinds are about to lose something.

And thats just talking about this specific build. Sorc shield tanks, CC sustain sorc builds, and others are on the chopping block too. It's a wide range of builds that are going to suffer by changing a "class defining" skill.

Why do I have problems with it in pve?
basically our BIS gear (to be remotely competitive) doesn't give HP, and our defenses are paper thin... like unshielded we get one shot thin. So traditionally we used shields so we didn't have to lose THAT much dps by dropping lots of points into hp or jumping heavy armor or the like. Now in pve they are basically making us take off our shields..because there is no way to run molag kena (skills cost 33% more) and do a skill rotation and be spamming shields every 6 seconds. Which means we have to adapt... Maybe slotting a pet in the place of the shield would give enough hp room for templar healer to keep us up...idk but either way it's a massive change to sorcs, and it's a tough bullet to swallow to have to depend on the competency of another for survival.

Why do I feel like a wet noodle next to other classes in the dps role?
have you been in a parse with someone on the higher end of the dps spectrum. aka actually wearing bis gear? a NB or DK can easily pull 50k dps. Templar HEALERS doing their job can do 20k+ dps. Sorcs doing all their rotations, perfectly buffed, and in cookie cutter builds struggle to break 25k.

And remember the other classes shield stacking too...so if your doing the same ur cutting your dps for a no win scenerio. Dk's are now the best shield stackers with flappy wings, thorn shield (reflects 33% damage back), and the fact they can self heal and pretty much already dominated the damage mitigation scene prior to this anyway.

Our shields where donated to the other classes. my honest opinion is to ditch em, and try to go for something else. otherwise it is kinda like the vanilla days of wow...paladin vs paladin.

What else do I hate about DB changes as far as sorcs are concerned?
Currently we lack Complete originality in the area of Stamina sorcs (which use very few class skills and basically just use being a "sorc" as a utility)
And With magicka sorcs being the bottom of the barrel dps wise across the board and the fact our class "unique-ness" has been lost due to the fact everyone is now inheriting our damage mitigation techniques while retaining their own...
Get ganked by a shielded NB from stealth...because you forgot to spam your shield Every 6 seconds while walking around.
Sorcs are no longer the best shielders... DK's are. With flappy wings, thorn shield, and heavy damage mitigation...they're the new kings.
I hate that I'm having to rethink and recraft all my gear now. No longer can I depend on shields to get me through...but im lost as to what to do.
Currently I'm thinking with our shields being reduced to 6 seconds and it just not being feasible to refresh them constantly on a pet build or CC based sustain build for pvp we need to invest in tactics that Don't use shields... for that we basically need to take all points out of magicka and invest in health instead... utilizing the new buffs in heavy armor, and the +8% max hp for having a pet summoned we stack that with entrophy + 8% and we'll see a build that can actually take a hit from enemy players. The problem with this idea is where is our damage coming from, and more importantly how are we sustaining such a build? There is a pvp set that combined with 7/7 impren makes builds uncritable , and therefor we can't rely on critical surge for anything at all. As for our pet... he's 15k hp in DB and shieldless he's pretty much a one shot. But maybe there is a way to mitigate damage enough to let mutagens or something do the work for us.

For pve... shields are pointless, we;re already the lowest dps...refreshing a shield every 6 seconds is absolutely pointless. Infact it is a liability. So we're going to have to rely on healers, Slot a pet instead of a shield for the extra 8% hp (since our best in slot gear doesn't give us hp) and try to do our basic OL set up (molag kena and shield casting every 6 seconds doesn't work, some come DB you have to lose one or the other)

Now here's the thing... these 2 builds are not transferable from one area to the other... therefor I think those of us who do pvp mostly will have to Tank in the pve setting. and those of us pveing mostly will either have to hide in the Zerg and hope to not get hit in the cross fire, or go cookie cutter sorc.(cookie cutter sorc is using burst damage, 1 resto staff, 1 destro staff with trade mark abilities like crushing shock, mines, streak, and frags to destroy opponents)

Niche builds are basically being annihilated by this DB patch...and proxy counting pets as targets and scaling much higher much faster means pet builds are pretty much done in pvp. Also with our primary curse damage being deemed not a dot...our damage has been nerfed there as well since we can't invest in thermaturge to get that higher amount of damage. So yeah... think pet builds are done for now.

CC sustain builds may still be viable but we're going to need to highly consider not running shields and instead running hp instead because you can't take an even larger dps hit on a low dps build.

Anyway I think since Stamina sorcs are going to be getting some stuff, Magick sorcs need some attention to their passives and abilities as well.
We have lost our Sorc-ness, and need a new identity. Now personally I kinda like the GW2 idea with the mesmer class... Lots of pets, executes, and CC/bleed/confusion/condition effects to take down opponents. For non pet builds I like the idea of having more AOE static (this is my house) type of damage builds to combat the whole invisible/untargetable/shuffle/shielded builds that are going to be new meta. AS for passives... Anything that gives us more life and more life steal at this point.. we're totally screwed on that end without shields.

1. Fear lasts all of one second if you CC break it. Recast shields after. If you get feared and don't break free, and the NB has half a brain, your shield is only lasting the first 2-3 seconds of the fear anyways.

2. Agreed, each class does. The sorc mitigation technique in PvP is still good, and I barely noticed a change. IF YOU ARE PLAYING A GOOD PLAYER, YOUR SHIELD WASN'T LASTING SIX SECONDS ANYWAYS. Against someone who can't break your shield in 6 seconds... they are dead meat anyways.

3. And you would have survived that taking aim with a shield up...? Not unless it was an 80k shield. That move has like a 10 second charge up time, and oneshots anybody that isn't a bloody DK tank holding block. Roll dodge, interrupt, or pick up the defense sigil.

4. Total myth that sorcs struggle to break 25k out of overload.

This is my first and so far only attempt on manti since going to a meteor build for most content. Also, my crit is ~75% with minor prophecy up, so my Force Pulse, Shooting Star, and Mage's Wrath all had very bad crit. On Bloodspawn, solo, with zero buffs save taunt, I will always get above 27k. I am far from an amazing sorc btw, and I'm not even altmer (altmer would have ~1k more dps here). It is true, sorcs do not have the same DPS capabilities as the other mag classes and stam DKs in PvE, but it is a myth that we struggle to hit 20/25/whatever DPS on sorc, and we bring other things to the group. On Serpent for example, sorc is excellent on lamias. In SO speed runs sorcs can streak across the bridge and to levers, saving time. Sorc gives 3% crit to everyone in the group. I've heard that sorc is excellent for the backyard of the final vMoL boss (can't personally confirm, only been to second on vet, got to around 20%). And while we do not excel as much as other builds in group content, we are awesome solo (maelstrom) and will continue to excel in maelstrom.



You ARE right that pets suck, especially with the new shield changes. Instead of trying to create mass hysteria (which is a very NB thing to do, so don't do it) about sorc nerfs, how about starting a thread to suggest that the ward duration stays the same on pets? Or is even stronger on pets? Or that pets shouldn't be toggles? Or that pets should have like... 50k HP because their AI sucks so bad...? Pets do need major buffs until they are worth using (on builds not 100% dedicated to pet use), you are right on this.

Sorc did get nerfed, because it was overtuned in PvP (though as I've stated before, mainly our burst through loss of proxy/DB/curse not getting buffed by thaum, not our defense so much). I am not arguing that point. I play a sorc, and love the class, I just have a very different opinion about us than seemingly most sorcs do.

@PainfulFAFA How would you feel if you could get the 8% max magika from having the Twilight Slotted instead of it being link to bound armor (bound armor giving 10% max health instead) ?

luen79rwb17_ESO

Well, just tested a magicka sorc dps for the 1st 2 rounds of vMA and with the 2.4.2 changes I honestly feel I was playing more of a magplar than a magsorc, but a worse version of a magplar since you get flat heals off any source of crit damage.

Surge changes + shield short time added periods of vulnerability (shield timer runs out or is consumed) which flat heals can't cover and ended dying. Now you can't rely on overload heal, since its just that tiny heal per hit like everthing else. I had to spam shield and rely on dot crit heals since skills don't go off as fast + the 1 sec cd on heal means I got them most from dots. All in all this means my magicka pool went off real fast.

I'm not a pro player nor tester but these 2 changes (surge + shield) AFAIK makes it very difficult for magicka sorcs to recover fast form heavy hits / constant damage. Say you took 15k+ damage (1 direct hit or 3x4K hits) its gonna take a few seconds to recover while at the same time covering the missing health with a shield that wont last enough.

I would suggest they reconsider this change to surge. An idea would be give it a flat value for any sort of damage + a % based on damage form direct hits, a lesser % than live server maybe. But this might actually cover those much needed heals when health is low.

potirondb16_ESO

Pretty sure the critsurge is actually done for sorctank so they have a sustain heal through their fight.

No longer design for magika sorcerer Healing purpose

Emma_Overload

In PvP, the new Surge is a big buff, in my opinion. We were NEVER getting big heals off of targets that stacked Impenetrable (aka the good players), and we weren't getting any heals off DOT attacks like Velocious Curse or Rapid Strikes.

Yeah, maybe once in a blue moon I might get an 8K surge heal off of some sorry scrub I hit with an Overload light attack, but those types of heals never seem to come when you need them. I would much rather work with the more reliable, but reduced heal from the new Surge.

cpuScientist

Crit surge is capped at 3k with 100 in blessed it's a whopping 3750. Meant to be normalized vs a NB SAP essence. Dark conversion seems called at 8059 and 10,076 with 100 in blessed. So it's basically clap heal from templars, interruptible heal, but a strong heal.

Overall while it seems like a bit of a buff it's not really is it LOL. Crit surge could heal for alot more on high crit builds, and dark deal still takes 1 second to cast, and on pts was very buggy taking multiple casts.

But the working on dots is somewhat nice. We are lacking in class targetable dots so LL is our only dot that we can use for this unless you slot flame wheel, and Elemental Blockade. But the heal is alot more frequent and is not a horrible WHY DID YOU DO THIS tyoe change. It helps.

Can someone confirm though if this can crit because if yes then it is a very fine change in my ever so honest opinion.

cpuScientist

Once again dark conversion is still bad, make it a spammable DPS that morphs into a melee range and a distance (both morphs magicka, stamina have 4 options for spammable this would give mag Sorcs 2 and one not being ranged so a different style, it's fair)

Make crystal blast a stamina with the same proc chance as regular frags, 8 meter crystal blade/Lance or a slightly weaker range version. Because range means it should be a tocuh weaker...

Make bound armaments into a passive 6% magicka stamina in the passives. And instead put a single target non ground based dot in the skills place with a magicka and stamina morph.

Change pets into cast and remain until death. NE skot only needed, if you want access to the ability change to the bar it is slotted. Change twilight tormentor into a form of DK inferno single target going off every 2 seconds like the AOE pet, this way we have choices of how we want to use our pets 2 DPS 2 HEALS, or whatever the current tormentor ability is really very bad.

Give pets a good bit more health and resistances, they take 1.5 seconds to cast have a nifty cost and cam be 1 shotted, they need more health and resistances since we cannot afford to shield them much anymore, really cannot afford it, and make the proxy det not count them, that skill really should only count players.

Make the 28 second atro base and have it morph into either the AOE lightning atro or the AOE air atro.

Finally, whew, an air morph for OL no one uses the AOE morph make that air blasts and it's all good.

With these changes we now have a strong Magicka sorc with options and a strong Stam Sorc with a little identity.

Also change crystal like moves to ice just to give ice some love it can still do physical damage it is a blade made of ice... But this is just for the sake of ice every ES game dumos on ice lol.

Birdovic

Can someone confirm though if this can crit because if yes then it is a very fine change in my ever so honest opinion.

@cpuScientist

Surge Heals can crit.

bloodenragedb14_ESO

OK @ZOS_GinaBruno lets get flat answers, and i have alot of time so im saving this will continue to get a flat anwser whenever possible

the Conjured ward changes, with all the players on the forums crying to undo the change to the duration

FLAT ANSWER

Is there any intention on ZOS side to change this on the pts to a more tolerable duration before the month is out

Punn

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

In PvP, the new Surge is a big buff, in my opinion. We were NEVER getting big heals off of targets that stacked Impenetrable (aka the good players), and we weren't getting any heals off DOT attacks like Velocious Curse or Rapid Strikes.

Yeah, maybe once in a blue moon I might get an 8K surge heal off of some sorry scrub I hit with an Overload light attack, but those types of heals never seem to come when you need them. I would much rather work with the more reliable, but reduced heal from the new Surge.

the heal is still useless IMO, because now we have a Reduced heal that we still have to to Crit to get and now theres a cool down on it. So in long run its all the same thing. yes, you didnt get big heals of someone that stacked impenetrable. Now tho, your not getting big heal ever.

lassitershawn

So... saw the changes today.

Dark Exchange still sucks.
Power Surge is definitely a huge nerf, especially in vMA, where your healing comes almost entirely from this skill.
Nothing to raise sustained DPS in PvE.

Oh and wtf with the ravage magicka/stamina potions. What *** moron thought that was a good idea?

lassitershawn

potirondb16_ESO wrote: »

lassitershawn wrote: »

NativeJoe wrote: »

*******************************************************************************************
IF YOU DON"T UNDERSTAND THE ISSUE SORCS ARE HAVING WITH SHIELD REDUCTION AND OTHER NERFS PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A POST STATING YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND. Thanks ~Broken'Stick
*******************************************************************************************


Why is the duration 6 seconds?
Because how long does fear last? right so u shield up. the NB gets a smirk, buffs up, fears you, u run around like and idiot lose ur shields, and he gets his combo in unmitigated. A well timed Dizzy swing and ur on the ground, ult time as soon as the shields expire. IT is basically just a way to give EVERY class their own shot at us without having to go through any mitigation. and lets not forget the dirty little secret of the transmutation set. If you are healed by a person and are wearing 7/7 impen... Sorcs CANNOT heal off you because you are immune to critical strikes. Also with everyone having shields...same issue. So sorcs cannot recover hp.

Why do I personally have an issue with the changes?
It isn't that they Changed just my shields and I'm QQing in the corner. let me try to paint a picture everyone can see.

In pvp... Every class has it's own damage mitigation techniques. NBs can stealth, shuffle, dodge. Dks Traditionally are the tankiest of builds and can mitigate damage greatly; they also get flappy wings to reflect direct damage projectiles such as crystal frags, overload, crushing shock, flame clench, and that sorta thing. Templars can out mitigate, out heal, and have insane resource management to get by, Sorcs have Streak, rune prison, soft CC, and Shields as our Damage mitigation techniques.

A broad description that isn't by any means absolute. or the entire story...but u get the idea...every class has it's own WAY of dealing with heavy damage.

So I'm playing a pet build...doing Awsome btw : https://www.twitch.tv/trixytricks/v/64395447 : And then Zos comes in and goes hey... shield duration reduced by 70%, Your pet curse now is not considered a dot and thus does not benefit from CP in thermaturge (these things are 2 major nerfs to my pets survival, my resource management, my ability to not get randomly ganked, etc) ..... okay awsome..... but they weren't finished. ALSO all shields now protect against all damage, every class can now shield stack, AND we're upping the damage of proxy. (5 pets x 25% more damage + me roughly means im going to take 20k damage from it by myself...if not more) So now all my opponents just got tougher, my dps just got lower, and they put in basically a kill switch to my pet build.

understand a little bit of my frustration here?

By no means is that all they did, nor all they will do... they gotta do something about stamina sorc now...which probably means magicka sorcs of all kinds are about to lose something.

And thats just talking about this specific build. Sorc shield tanks, CC sustain sorc builds, and others are on the chopping block too. It's a wide range of builds that are going to suffer by changing a "class defining" skill.

Why do I have problems with it in pve?
basically our BIS gear (to be remotely competitive) doesn't give HP, and our defenses are paper thin... like unshielded we get one shot thin. So traditionally we used shields so we didn't have to lose THAT much dps by dropping lots of points into hp or jumping heavy armor or the like. Now in pve they are basically making us take off our shields..because there is no way to run molag kena (skills cost 33% more) and do a skill rotation and be spamming shields every 6 seconds. Which means we have to adapt... Maybe slotting a pet in the place of the shield would give enough hp room for templar healer to keep us up...idk but either way it's a massive change to sorcs, and it's a tough bullet to swallow to have to depend on the competency of another for survival.

Why do I feel like a wet noodle next to other classes in the dps role?
have you been in a parse with someone on the higher end of the dps spectrum. aka actually wearing bis gear? a NB or DK can easily pull 50k dps. Templar HEALERS doing their job can do 20k+ dps. Sorcs doing all their rotations, perfectly buffed, and in cookie cutter builds struggle to break 25k.

And remember the other classes shield stacking too...so if your doing the same ur cutting your dps for a no win scenerio. Dk's are now the best shield stackers with flappy wings, thorn shield (reflects 33% damage back), and the fact they can self heal and pretty much already dominated the damage mitigation scene prior to this anyway.

Our shields where donated to the other classes. my honest opinion is to ditch em, and try to go for something else. otherwise it is kinda like the vanilla days of wow...paladin vs paladin.

What else do I hate about DB changes as far as sorcs are concerned?
Currently we lack Complete originality in the area of Stamina sorcs (which use very few class skills and basically just use being a "sorc" as a utility)
And With magicka sorcs being the bottom of the barrel dps wise across the board and the fact our class "unique-ness" has been lost due to the fact everyone is now inheriting our damage mitigation techniques while retaining their own...
Get ganked by a shielded NB from stealth...because you forgot to spam your shield Every 6 seconds while walking around.
Sorcs are no longer the best shielders... DK's are. With flappy wings, thorn shield, and heavy damage mitigation...they're the new kings.
I hate that I'm having to rethink and recraft all my gear now. No longer can I depend on shields to get me through...but im lost as to what to do.
Currently I'm thinking with our shields being reduced to 6 seconds and it just not being feasible to refresh them constantly on a pet build or CC based sustain build for pvp we need to invest in tactics that Don't use shields... for that we basically need to take all points out of magicka and invest in health instead... utilizing the new buffs in heavy armor, and the +8% max hp for having a pet summoned we stack that with entrophy + 8% and we'll see a build that can actually take a hit from enemy players. The problem with this idea is where is our damage coming from, and more importantly how are we sustaining such a build? There is a pvp set that combined with 7/7 impren makes builds uncritable , and therefor we can't rely on critical surge for anything at all. As for our pet... he's 15k hp in DB and shieldless he's pretty much a one shot. But maybe there is a way to mitigate damage enough to let mutagens or something do the work for us.

For pve... shields are pointless, we;re already the lowest dps...refreshing a shield every 6 seconds is absolutely pointless. Infact it is a liability. So we're going to have to rely on healers, Slot a pet instead of a shield for the extra 8% hp (since our best in slot gear doesn't give us hp) and try to do our basic OL set up (molag kena and shield casting every 6 seconds doesn't work, some come DB you have to lose one or the other)

Now here's the thing... these 2 builds are not transferable from one area to the other... therefor I think those of us who do pvp mostly will have to Tank in the pve setting. and those of us pveing mostly will either have to hide in the Zerg and hope to not get hit in the cross fire, or go cookie cutter sorc.(cookie cutter sorc is using burst damage, 1 resto staff, 1 destro staff with trade mark abilities like crushing shock, mines, streak, and frags to destroy opponents)

Niche builds are basically being annihilated by this DB patch...and proxy counting pets as targets and scaling much higher much faster means pet builds are pretty much done in pvp. Also with our primary curse damage being deemed not a dot...our damage has been nerfed there as well since we can't invest in thermaturge to get that higher amount of damage. So yeah... think pet builds are done for now.

CC sustain builds may still be viable but we're going to need to highly consider not running shields and instead running hp instead because you can't take an even larger dps hit on a low dps build.

Anyway I think since Stamina sorcs are going to be getting some stuff, Magick sorcs need some attention to their passives and abilities as well.
We have lost our Sorc-ness, and need a new identity. Now personally I kinda like the GW2 idea with the mesmer class... Lots of pets, executes, and CC/bleed/confusion/condition effects to take down opponents. For non pet builds I like the idea of having more AOE static (this is my house) type of damage builds to combat the whole invisible/untargetable/shuffle/shielded builds that are going to be new meta. AS for passives... Anything that gives us more life and more life steal at this point.. we're totally screwed on that end without shields.

1. Fear lasts all of one second if you CC break it. Recast shields after. If you get feared and don't break free, and the NB has half a brain, your shield is only lasting the first 2-3 seconds of the fear anyways.

2. Agreed, each class does. The sorc mitigation technique in PvP is still good, and I barely noticed a change. IF YOU ARE PLAYING A GOOD PLAYER, YOUR SHIELD WASN'T LASTING SIX SECONDS ANYWAYS. Against someone who can't break your shield in 6 seconds... they are dead meat anyways.

3. And you would have survived that taking aim with a shield up...? Not unless it was an 80k shield. That move has like a 10 second charge up time, and oneshots anybody that isn't a bloody DK tank holding block. Roll dodge, interrupt, or pick up the defense sigil.

4. Total myth that sorcs struggle to break 25k out of overload.

This is my first and so far only attempt on manti since going to a meteor build for most content. Also, my crit is ~75% with minor prophecy up, so my Force Pulse, Shooting Star, and Mage's Wrath all had very bad crit. On Bloodspawn, solo, with zero buffs save taunt, I will always get above 27k. I am far from an amazing sorc btw, and I'm not even altmer (altmer would have ~1k more dps here). It is true, sorcs do not have the same DPS capabilities as the other mag classes and stam DKs in PvE, but it is a myth that we struggle to hit 20/25/whatever DPS on sorc, and we bring other things to the group. On Serpent for example, sorc is excellent on lamias. In SO speed runs sorcs can streak across the bridge and to levers, saving time. Sorc gives 3% crit to everyone in the group. I've heard that sorc is excellent for the backyard of the final vMoL boss (can't personally confirm, only been to second on vet, got to around 20%). And while we do not excel as much as other builds in group content, we are awesome solo (maelstrom) and will continue to excel in maelstrom.



You ARE right that pets suck, especially with the new shield changes. Instead of trying to create mass hysteria (which is a very NB thing to do, so don't do it) about sorc nerfs, how about starting a thread to suggest that the ward duration stays the same on pets? Or is even stronger on pets? Or that pets shouldn't be toggles? Or that pets should have like... 50k HP because their AI sucks so bad...? Pets do need major buffs until they are worth using (on builds not 100% dedicated to pet use), you are right on this.

Sorc did get nerfed, because it was overtuned in PvP (though as I've stated before, mainly our burst through loss of proxy/DB/curse not getting buffed by thaum, not our defense so much). I am not arguing that point. I play a sorc, and love the class, I just have a very different opinion about us than seemingly most sorcs do.

@PainfulFAFA How would you feel if you could get the 8% max magika from having the Twilight Slotted instead of it being link to bound armor (bound armor giving 10% max health instead) ?

Not sure if you meant to quote me or something that PainfulFAFA said, but I personally would like it if the 8% magicka came from twilight slotted (not alive). At least it would give us a DPS boost until the twilight died.

code65536

lassitershawn wrote: »

Power Surge is definitely a huge nerf, especially in vMA, where your healing comes almost entirely from this skill.

If this change goes Live, the sorc weekly board is going to be as desolate as the DK one.

FriedEggSandwich

code65536 wrote: »

lassitershawn wrote: »

Power Surge is definitely a huge nerf, especially in vMA, where your healing comes almost entirely from this skill.

If this change goes Live, the sorc weekly board is going to be as desolate as the DK one.

Maybe that's the idea

Derra

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

In PvP, the new Surge is a big buff, in my opinion. We were NEVER getting big heals off of targets that stacked Impenetrable (aka the good players), and we weren't getting any heals off DOT attacks like Velocious Curse or Rapid Strikes.

Yeah, maybe once in a blue moon I might get an 8K surge heal off of some sorry scrub I hit with an Overload light attack, but those types of heals never seem to come when you need them. I would much rather work with the more reliable, but reduced heal from the new Surge.

Most likely battlespirit not working atm is a bug.

Surge no longer "double dips" into battlespirit. It´s a fixed flat value that can also crit.

Why do i think that´s a bug? Because i can´t imagine 5k+ critical critsurge heals being working as intended for stamina sorcerers. That´s insane selfhealing.

But a confirmation of this being intended or not would be nice.

Edit: Also @Wrobel adjusting the value on a theoretically good skill to make it good is something that works. However the problem with dark exchange is not that it doesn´t do enough. The design of the skill is what keeps it from getting used.
You´d have to put it somewhere to 15k heal (in pvp) for me to ever consider slotting it. Even then i´d not be sure.

Tyrannitar

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

In PvP, the new Surge is a big buff, in my opinion. We were NEVER getting big heals off of targets that stacked Impenetrable (aka the good players), and we weren't getting any heals off DOT attacks like Velocious Curse or Rapid Strikes.

Yeah, maybe once in a blue moon I might get an 8K surge heal off of some sorry scrub I hit with an Overload light attack, but those types of heals never seem to come when you need them. I would much rather work with the more reliable, but reduced heal from the new Surge.

Maybe give magicka sorcs this version of the morph and stam sorcs the old version back? Because I wholeheartedly disagree with everything about this post. While yeah, the rapids was an issue on the stam side; this hurts more than it helps.

Tyrannitar

Derra wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

In PvP, the new Surge is a big buff, in my opinion. We were NEVER getting big heals off of targets that stacked Impenetrable (aka the good players), and we weren't getting any heals off DOT attacks like Velocious Curse or Rapid Strikes.

Yeah, maybe once in a blue moon I might get an 8K surge heal off of some sorry scrub I hit with an Overload light attack, but those types of heals never seem to come when you need them. I would much rather work with the more reliable, but reduced heal from the new Surge.

Most likely battlespirit not working atm is a bug.

Surge no longer "double dips" into battlespirit. It´s a fixed flat value that can also crit.

Why do i think that´s a bug? Because i can´t imagine 5k+ critical critsurge heals being working as intended for stamina sorcerers. That´s insane selfhealing.

But a confirmation of this being intended or not would be nice.

Edit: Also @Wrobel adjusting the value on a theoretically good skill to make it good is something that works. However the problem with dark exchange is not that it doesn´t do enough. The design of the skill is what keeps it from getting used.
You´d have to put it somewhere to 15k heal (in pvp) for me to ever consider slotting it. Even then i´d not be sure.

I'm loling at 5k self heals being labelled as "inSANe SELfHEalS"

That's on a 1 second cooldown.... That's really not that great compared to how it is on live right now.


Do you run a stam sorc?

Derra

Tyrannitar wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

In PvP, the new Surge is a big buff, in my opinion. We were NEVER getting big heals off of targets that stacked Impenetrable (aka the good players), and we weren't getting any heals off DOT attacks like Velocious Curse or Rapid Strikes.

Yeah, maybe once in a blue moon I might get an 8K surge heal off of some sorry scrub I hit with an Overload light attack, but those types of heals never seem to come when you need them. I would much rather work with the more reliable, but reduced heal from the new Surge.

Most likely battlespirit not working atm is a bug.

Surge no longer "double dips" into battlespirit. It´s a fixed flat value that can also crit.

Why do i think that´s a bug? Because i can´t imagine 5k+ critical critsurge heals being working as intended for stamina sorcerers. That´s insane selfhealing.

But a confirmation of this being intended or not would be nice.

Edit: Also @Wrobel adjusting the value on a theoretically good skill to make it good is something that works. However the problem with dark exchange is not that it doesn´t do enough. The design of the skill is what keeps it from getting used.
You´d have to put it somewhere to 15k heal (in pvp) for me to ever consider slotting it. Even then i´d not be sure.

I'm loling at 5k self heals being labelled as "inSANe SELfHEalS"

That's on a 1 second cooldown.... That's really not that great compared to how it is on live right now.


Do you run a stam sorc?

A 5k selfheal in pvp. My post was strictly on pvp.

Also every dot triggering it makes it almost as reliable as funnel as long as something is doing dmg. 3k+ passive hps in pvp is pretty damn good.

Daymond

Derra wrote: »

Tyrannitar wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

In PvP, the new Surge is a big buff, in my opinion. We were NEVER getting big heals off of targets that stacked Impenetrable (aka the good players), and we weren't getting any heals off DOT attacks like Velocious Curse or Rapid Strikes.

Yeah, maybe once in a blue moon I might get an 8K surge heal off of some sorry scrub I hit with an Overload light attack, but those types of heals never seem to come when you need them. I would much rather work with the more reliable, but reduced heal from the new Surge.

Most likely battlespirit not working atm is a bug.

Surge no longer "double dips" into battlespirit. It´s a fixed flat value that can also crit.

Why do i think that´s a bug? Because i can´t imagine 5k+ critical critsurge heals being working as intended for stamina sorcerers. That´s insane selfhealing.

But a confirmation of this being intended or not would be nice.

Edit: Also @Wrobel adjusting the value on a theoretically good skill to make it good is something that works. However the problem with dark exchange is not that it doesn´t do enough. The design of the skill is what keeps it from getting used.
You´d have to put it somewhere to 15k heal (in pvp) for me to ever consider slotting it. Even then i´d not be sure.

I'm loling at 5k self heals being labelled as "inSANe SELfHEalS"

That's on a 1 second cooldown.... That's really not that great compared to how it is on live right now.


Do you run a stam sorc?

A 5k selfheal in pvp. My post was strictly on pvp.

Also every dot triggering it makes it almost as reliable as funnel as long as something is doing dmg. 3k+ passive hps in pvp is pretty damn good.

I agree really wanted a crit surge change and got one glad i can put it back on my bar. Now all i need is for them to rework bolt escape a lil and ill be set pretty much. Nice job Devs!

Glantir

Derra wrote: »

A 5k selfheal in pvp. My post was strictly on pvp.

Also every dot triggering it makes it almost as reliable as funnel as long as something is doing dmg. 3k+ passive hps in pvp is pretty damn good.

But you need to crit, and you cant crit on shields, everyone will have a shield after DB....

TheHsN

@Wrobel
thanks with magicka an sorc nerf to you that u are destroying game for me and many like you.
do you aware in pts stamina nb's one shot to heavy armor tanks.

and why in whole patch there isnt anything for magicka and always nerfs to magicka specially sorcerer....(i have 2 sorcs)
why i SUB or why i buy this DLC there is only bad things for my Main characters...
i really dont understand why you are doing this what is the plan behind this ..ıs this just to show CUZ YOU CAN!


pls dont destroy our fun and pleasure with magicka build in this patch and give sorc back what u took...

dont nerf shield like this. atleast they should ne 10-12 secs
dont nerf SURGE

in pve without ultimade(overload) already there isnt any dps with sorc...
and force pulse cost twice more than swallow soul
i dont undertstan how u cant see this...

Just bring sorc back again in next patch for us

OR u just make me and many like me to quit playing...already that DLC was the last thing to make me wait to see what is going on...

and it is only nerfs and nothing to us...thats giving me a one choise to leave game till the next DLC or patch that u are going to do something for us...

TNX anyway...i hope u consider this things.

bloodenragedb14_ESO

TheHsN wrote: »

@Wrobel
thanks with magicka an sorc nerf to you that u are destroying game for me and many like you.
do you aware in pts stamina nb's one shot to heavy armor tanks.

and why in whole patch there isnt anything for magicka and always nerfs to magicka specially sorcerer....(i have 2 sorcs)
why i SUB or why i buy this DLC there is only bad things for my Main characters...
i really dont understand why you are doing this what is the plan behind this ..ıs this just to show CUZ YOU CAN!


pls dont destroy our fun and pleasure with magicka build in this patch and give sorc back what u took...

dont nerf shield like this. atleast they should ne 10-12 secs
dont nerf SURGE

in pve without ultimade(overload) already there isnt any dps with sorc...
and force pulse cost twice more than swallow soul
i dont undertstan how u cant see this...

Just bring sorc back again in next patch for us

OR u just make me and many like me to quit playing...already that DLC was the last thing to make me wait to see what is going on...

and it is only nerfs and nothing to us...thats giving me a one choise to leave game till the next DLC or patch that u are going to do something for us...

TNX anyway...i hope u consider this things.

Translation:

stop changing skills

susmitds

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

TheHsN wrote: »

@Wrobel
thanks with magicka an sorc nerf to you that u are destroying game for me and many like you.
do you aware in pts stamina nb's one shot to heavy armor tanks.

and why in whole patch there isnt anything for magicka and always nerfs to magicka specially sorcerer....(i have 2 sorcs)
why i SUB or why i buy this DLC there is only bad things for my Main characters...
i really dont understand why you are doing this what is the plan behind this ..ıs this just to show CUZ YOU CAN!


pls dont destroy our fun and pleasure with magicka build in this patch and give sorc back what u took...

dont nerf shield like this. atleast they should ne 10-12 secs
dont nerf SURGE

in pve without ultimade(overload) already there isnt any dps with sorc...
and force pulse cost twice more than swallow soul
i dont undertstan how u cant see this...

Just bring sorc back again in next patch for us

OR u just make me and many like me to quit playing...already that DLC was the last thing to make me wait to see what is going on...

and it is only nerfs and nothing to us...thats giving me a one choise to leave game till the next DLC or patch that u are going to do something for us...

TNX anyway...i hope u consider this things.

Translation:

stop changing skills

Translation:

Leave mag sorcs OP