Official Feedback Thread for Sorcerers

Lucky28

Derra wrote: »

Tyrannitar wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

@Wrobel

After testing on the PTS, this critsurge is such a NERF. And dark conversion is simply bad you can double the heal.again and it's still bad. Just give us a spammable in that tree in its place and let blood magic handle the rest. You already have a black bolt skill in game that some NPCs fire off, there that goes nice in our black magic skill tree. And just kill bound armor already, make it give 8% more health and change the pet 8%health to magic. Now we have a good reason to alot your weak pets.

And for the love of all make pets non toggles. Let them be summoned till they die and allow us to put the skills on the bar we want instead.

Make twilight tormentor an actual choice, have it be like the inferno skill, sending off a single target ability every 2 seconds like the AOE pet that either roots on every hit or stuns on last hit. Options, pets are not good enough to be on every one of our limited bars. This would instead allow us to have the pets and only toggle we will now NEED is inner light.

Just fix the Sorc. I am not even asking for shield duration anymore.

I felt like I was alone screaming that this surge update was a joke. PLAY THE PTS, we got NERFED. Not BUFFED.

Please please please don't put this into live @Wrobel

The only occasion where it´s a buff is pvp stamsorc (yay unicorns got buffed) - where it´s most likely a bug bc battlespirit does not affect surge heals atm.

another nerf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUXAHc-ABoY

Emma_Overload

Derra wrote: »

Tyrannitar wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

In PvP, the new Surge is a big buff, in my opinion. We were NEVER getting big heals off of targets that stacked Impenetrable (aka the good players), and we weren't getting any heals off DOT attacks like Velocious Curse or Rapid Strikes.

Yeah, maybe once in a blue moon I might get an 8K surge heal off of some sorry scrub I hit with an Overload light attack, but those types of heals never seem to come when you need them. I would much rather work with the more reliable, but reduced heal from the new Surge.

Most likely battlespirit not working atm is a bug.

Surge no longer "double dips" into battlespirit. It´s a fixed flat value that can also crit.

Why do i think that´s a bug? Because i can´t imagine 5k+ critical critsurge heals being working as intended for stamina sorcerers. That´s insane selfhealing.

But a confirmation of this being intended or not would be nice.

Edit: Also @Wrobel adjusting the value on a theoretically good skill to make it good is something that works. However the problem with dark exchange is not that it doesn´t do enough. The design of the skill is what keeps it from getting used.
You´d have to put it somewhere to 15k heal (in pvp) for me to ever consider slotting it. Even then i´d not be sure.

I'm loling at 5k self heals being labelled as "inSANe SELfHEalS"

That's on a 1 second cooldown.... That's really not that great compared to how it is on live right now.


Do you run a stam sorc?

A 5k selfheal in pvp. My post was strictly on pvp.

Also every dot triggering it makes it almost as reliable as funnel as long as something is doing dmg. 3k+ passive hps in pvp is pretty damn good.

Yeah that's what I keep trying to tell people. I don't think a lot of Sorcs really know what their sustained HPS has been, they just notice those occasional big Surge heals when the number crawls up their screen. I definitely do look at HPS, and I can attest that in PvP, it is really low... like 1K HPS if you are lucky. In PvE it's much migher, but then we have huge Wards in PvE, anyway.

My rotation consists of a lot of Crushing Shock, Velocious Curse and Light Attacks with only occasional procced Frags. Except for the Frags, none of these produce big Surge heals, and Curse doesn't proc Surge at all on Live. I expect the new Surge will double my HPS in PvP, maybe even triple it if I adjust my CP passives to maximize heals.

Emma_Overload

cpuScientist wrote: »

@Wrobel

After testing on the PTS, this critsurge is such a NERF. And dark conversion is simply bad you can double the heal.again and it's still bad. Just give us a spammable in that tree in its place and let blood magic handle the rest. You already have a black bolt skill in game that some NPCs fire off, there that goes nice in our black magic skill tree. And just kill bound armor already, make it give 8% more health and change the pet 8%health to magic. Now we have a good reason to alot your weak pets.

And for the love of all make pets non toggles. Let them be summoned till they die and allow us to put the skills on the bar we want instead.

Make twilight tormentor an actual choice, have it be like the inferno skill, sending off a single target ability every 2 seconds like the AOE pet that either roots on every hit or stuns on last hit. Options, pets are not good enough to be on every one of our limited bars. This would instead allow us to have the pets and only toggle we will now NEED is inner light.

Just fix the Sorc. I am not even asking for shield duration anymore.

Yeah, you're talking about "Fright Force", like what the Scaled Court Illusionists in Craglorn use, and you're not the first person to suggest adding it to the Dark Magic line. If it only had the same damage (and cost) as Force Pulse, it would be a huge boost to Sorc rotations, considering you would be proccing Blood Magic constantly in addition to Surge heals.

Lucky28

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Tyrannitar wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

In PvP, the new Surge is a big buff, in my opinion. We were NEVER getting big heals off of targets that stacked Impenetrable (aka the good players), and we weren't getting any heals off DOT attacks like Velocious Curse or Rapid Strikes.

Yeah, maybe once in a blue moon I might get an 8K surge heal off of some sorry scrub I hit with an Overload light attack, but those types of heals never seem to come when you need them. I would much rather work with the more reliable, but reduced heal from the new Surge.

Most likely battlespirit not working atm is a bug.

Surge no longer "double dips" into battlespirit. It´s a fixed flat value that can also crit.

Why do i think that´s a bug? Because i can´t imagine 5k+ critical critsurge heals being working as intended for stamina sorcerers. That´s insane selfhealing.

But a confirmation of this being intended or not would be nice.

Edit: Also @Wrobel adjusting the value on a theoretically good skill to make it good is something that works. However the problem with dark exchange is not that it doesn´t do enough. The design of the skill is what keeps it from getting used.
You´d have to put it somewhere to 15k heal (in pvp) for me to ever consider slotting it. Even then i´d not be sure.

I'm loling at 5k self heals being labelled as "inSANe SELfHEalS"

That's on a 1 second cooldown.... That's really not that great compared to how it is on live right now.


Do you run a stam sorc?

A 5k selfheal in pvp. My post was strictly on pvp.

Also every dot triggering it makes it almost as reliable as funnel as long as something is doing dmg. 3k+ passive hps in pvp is pretty damn good.

Yeah that's what I keep trying to tell people. I don't think a lot of Sorcs really know what their sustained HPS has been, they just notice those occasional big Surge heals when the number crawls up their screen. I definitely do look at HPS, and I can attest that in PvP, it is really low... like 1K HPS if you are lucky. In PvE it's much migher, but then we have huge Wards in PvE, anyway.

My rotation consists of a lot of Crushing Shock, Velocious Curse and Light Attacks with only occasional procced Frags. Except for the Frags, none of these produce big Surge heals, and Curse doesn't proc Surge at all on Live. I expect the new Surge will double my HPS in PvP, maybe even triple it if I adjust my CP passives to maximize heals.

I saw how *** Surge heals where in PvP at the start of the IC update which forced me to go from destro/duel wield to destro/resto.

It's just very sobering how ZOS chose this rout rather than adjusting how battle spirit affects certain abilities particularly percentage heals. it's this approach with these lazy 'fixes and changes' that's making this PTS quite the somber one.

Derra

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Tyrannitar wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

In PvP, the new Surge is a big buff, in my opinion. We were NEVER getting big heals off of targets that stacked Impenetrable (aka the good players), and we weren't getting any heals off DOT attacks like Velocious Curse or Rapid Strikes.

Yeah, maybe once in a blue moon I might get an 8K surge heal off of some sorry scrub I hit with an Overload light attack, but those types of heals never seem to come when you need them. I would much rather work with the more reliable, but reduced heal from the new Surge.

Most likely battlespirit not working atm is a bug.

Surge no longer "double dips" into battlespirit. It´s a fixed flat value that can also crit.

Why do i think that´s a bug? Because i can´t imagine 5k+ critical critsurge heals being working as intended for stamina sorcerers. That´s insane selfhealing.

But a confirmation of this being intended or not would be nice.

Edit: Also @Wrobel adjusting the value on a theoretically good skill to make it good is something that works. However the problem with dark exchange is not that it doesn´t do enough. The design of the skill is what keeps it from getting used.
You´d have to put it somewhere to 15k heal (in pvp) for me to ever consider slotting it. Even then i´d not be sure.

I'm loling at 5k self heals being labelled as "inSANe SELfHEalS"

That's on a 1 second cooldown.... That's really not that great compared to how it is on live right now.


Do you run a stam sorc?

A 5k selfheal in pvp. My post was strictly on pvp.

Also every dot triggering it makes it almost as reliable as funnel as long as something is doing dmg. 3k+ passive hps in pvp is pretty damn good.

Yeah that's what I keep trying to tell people. I don't think a lot of Sorcs really know what their sustained HPS has been, they just notice those occasional big Surge heals when the number crawls up their screen. I definitely do look at HPS, and I can attest that in PvP, it is really low... like 1K HPS if you are lucky. In PvE it's much migher, but then we have huge Wards in PvE, anyway.

My rotation consists of a lot of Crushing Shock, Velocious Curse and Light Attacks with only occasional procced Frags. Except for the Frags, none of these produce big Surge heals, and Curse doesn't proc Surge at all on Live. I expect the new Surge will double my HPS in PvP, maybe even triple it if I adjust my CP passives to maximize heals.

I had a build specifically tailored to use surge heals as a way to keep my HP in check even against shieldbreaker. Given a target to attack it would average roughly 2000 to 2500 hps.
However for me the changes to powersurge are a nerf as i will probably keep the same sustained heal but will loose "burst" heals from fragments or overload and proccs. Reliable constant healing creates more "fluff" heal that´s effectively wasted bc i´m at full HP anyways.
That´s mainly an issue for my personal build though. For the general sorc the changes to surge are a small buff in pvp when strictly looking at numbers.

However if battlespirit not working on surge heals currently is a bug and this gets changed (i expect this to happen as surge no longer "double dips") surge will have gotten a huge nerf across the board for all specs (bc thats 990 heal for powersurge and 1500 heal for critsurge once a second).

cpuScientist

Derra wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Tyrannitar wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

In PvP, the new Surge is a big buff, in my opinion. We were NEVER getting big heals off of targets that stacked Impenetrable (aka the good players), and we weren't getting any heals off DOT attacks like Velocious Curse or Rapid Strikes.

Yeah, maybe once in a blue moon I might get an 8K surge heal off of some sorry scrub I hit with an Overload light attack, but those types of heals never seem to come when you need them. I would much rather work with the more reliable, but reduced heal from the new Surge.

Most likely battlespirit not working atm is a bug.

Surge no longer "double dips" into battlespirit. It´s a fixed flat value that can also crit.

Why do i think that´s a bug? Because i can´t imagine 5k+ critical critsurge heals being working as intended for stamina sorcerers. That´s insane selfhealing.

But a confirmation of this being intended or not would be nice.

Edit: Also @Wrobel adjusting the value on a theoretically good skill to make it good is something that works. However the problem with dark exchange is not that it doesn´t do enough. The design of the skill is what keeps it from getting used.
You´d have to put it somewhere to 15k heal (in pvp) for me to ever consider slotting it. Even then i´d not be sure.

I'm loling at 5k self heals being labelled as "inSANe SELfHEalS"

That's on a 1 second cooldown.... That's really not that great compared to how it is on live right now.


Do you run a stam sorc?

A 5k selfheal in pvp. My post was strictly on pvp.

Also every dot triggering it makes it almost as reliable as funnel as long as something is doing dmg. 3k+ passive hps in pvp is pretty damn good.

Yeah that's what I keep trying to tell people. I don't think a lot of Sorcs really know what their sustained HPS has been, they just notice those occasional big Surge heals when the number crawls up their screen. I definitely do look at HPS, and I can attest that in PvP, it is really low... like 1K HPS if you are lucky. In PvE it's much migher, but then we have huge Wards in PvE, anyway.

My rotation consists of a lot of Crushing Shock, Velocious Curse and Light Attacks with only occasional procced Frags. Except for the Frags, none of these produce big Surge heals, and Curse doesn't proc Surge at all on Live. I expect the new Surge will double my HPS in PvP, maybe even triple it if I adjust my CP passives to maximize heals.

I had a build specifically tailored to use surge heals as a way to keep my HP in check even against shieldbreaker. Given a target to attack it would average roughly 2000 to 2500 hps.
However for me the changes to powersurge are a nerf as i will probably keep the same sustained heal but will loose "burst" heals from fragments or overload and proccs. Reliable constant healing creates more "fluff" heal that´s effectively wasted bc i´m at full HP anyways.
That´s mainly an issue for my personal build though. For the general sorc the changes to surge are a small buff in pvp when strictly looking at numbers.

However if battlespirit not working on surge heals currently is a bug and this gets changed (i expect this to happen as surge no longer "double dips") surge will have gotten a huge nerf across the board for all specs (bc thats 990 heal for powersurge and 1500 heal for critsurge once a second).

It's a small boon now, but honestly it's going to be affected by battle spirit. So it's just a HUGE NERF. And in PVE it's still a huge NERF.

cpuScientist

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

@Wrobel

After testing on the PTS, this critsurge is such a NERF. And dark conversion is simply bad you can double the heal.again and it's still bad. Just give us a spammable in that tree in its place and let blood magic handle the rest. You already have a black bolt skill in game that some NPCs fire off, there that goes nice in our black magic skill tree. And just kill bound armor already, make it give 8% more health and change the pet 8%health to magic. Now we have a good reason to alot your weak pets.

And for the love of all make pets non toggles. Let them be summoned till they die and allow us to put the skills on the bar we want instead.

Make twilight tormentor an actual choice, have it be like the inferno skill, sending off a single target ability every 2 seconds like the AOE pet that either roots on every hit or stuns on last hit. Options, pets are not good enough to be on every one of our limited bars. This would instead allow us to have the pets and only toggle we will now NEED is inner light.

Just fix the Sorc. I am not even asking for shield duration anymore.

Yeah, you're talking about "Fright Force", like what the Scaled Court Illusionists in Craglorn use, and you're not the first person to suggest adding it to the Dark Magic line. If it only had the same damage (and cost) as Force Pulse, it would be a huge boost to Sorc rotations, considering you would be proccing Blood Magic constantly in addition to Surge heals.

Yes fright force, whooo that would finally be nice. A boon a boost. Fitting the theme of Dark Magic.

Derra

cpuScientist wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Tyrannitar wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

In PvP, the new Surge is a big buff, in my opinion. We were NEVER getting big heals off of targets that stacked Impenetrable (aka the good players), and we weren't getting any heals off DOT attacks like Velocious Curse or Rapid Strikes.

Yeah, maybe once in a blue moon I might get an 8K surge heal off of some sorry scrub I hit with an Overload light attack, but those types of heals never seem to come when you need them. I would much rather work with the more reliable, but reduced heal from the new Surge.

Most likely battlespirit not working atm is a bug.

Surge no longer "double dips" into battlespirit. It´s a fixed flat value that can also crit.

Why do i think that´s a bug? Because i can´t imagine 5k+ critical critsurge heals being working as intended for stamina sorcerers. That´s insane selfhealing.

But a confirmation of this being intended or not would be nice.

Edit: Also @Wrobel adjusting the value on a theoretically good skill to make it good is something that works. However the problem with dark exchange is not that it doesn´t do enough. The design of the skill is what keeps it from getting used.
You´d have to put it somewhere to 15k heal (in pvp) for me to ever consider slotting it. Even then i´d not be sure.

I'm loling at 5k self heals being labelled as "inSANe SELfHEalS"

That's on a 1 second cooldown.... That's really not that great compared to how it is on live right now.


Do you run a stam sorc?

A 5k selfheal in pvp. My post was strictly on pvp.

Also every dot triggering it makes it almost as reliable as funnel as long as something is doing dmg. 3k+ passive hps in pvp is pretty damn good.

Yeah that's what I keep trying to tell people. I don't think a lot of Sorcs really know what their sustained HPS has been, they just notice those occasional big Surge heals when the number crawls up their screen. I definitely do look at HPS, and I can attest that in PvP, it is really low... like 1K HPS if you are lucky. In PvE it's much migher, but then we have huge Wards in PvE, anyway.

My rotation consists of a lot of Crushing Shock, Velocious Curse and Light Attacks with only occasional procced Frags. Except for the Frags, none of these produce big Surge heals, and Curse doesn't proc Surge at all on Live. I expect the new Surge will double my HPS in PvP, maybe even triple it if I adjust my CP passives to maximize heals.

I had a build specifically tailored to use surge heals as a way to keep my HP in check even against shieldbreaker. Given a target to attack it would average roughly 2000 to 2500 hps.
However for me the changes to powersurge are a nerf as i will probably keep the same sustained heal but will loose "burst" heals from fragments or overload and proccs. Reliable constant healing creates more "fluff" heal that´s effectively wasted bc i´m at full HP anyways.
That´s mainly an issue for my personal build though. For the general sorc the changes to surge are a small buff in pvp when strictly looking at numbers.

However if battlespirit not working on surge heals currently is a bug and this gets changed (i expect this to happen as surge no longer "double dips") surge will have gotten a huge nerf across the board for all specs (bc thats 990 heal for powersurge and 1500 heal for critsurge once a second).

It's a small boon now, but honestly it's going to be affected by battle spirit. So it's just a HUGE NERF. And in PVE it's still a huge NERF.

I won´t even comment on pve anymore. I´ve muled my pve gear to my NB and that settles the case.

With the recent changes sorc is actually so far away from fluent fun gameplay in pve that i don´t consider the class fixable for pve with the current class development team (it needs a complete redesign at this point imo). They seem to have an entirely different definition of what the terms "vaible" "fun" "competetive DPS" and anything else you can come up with mean.

For me it seems they see sorc as kind of a lazy pet class that likes to slot both pets, boundarmor and magelight on both bars and then proceeds to refresh hardened + daedric prey (as their only active skills) aswell as the pet actives - god forbid not the heal one that would require effort -while having one finger in their nose digging for gold.

Attackopsn

Wondering how the change to surge will affect vma speed runs, overload crits were pretty nice when dpsing down a boss. Really hope this change doesn't go live, I would much rather see that hardened ward received a change of this caliber over surge . This seems like they are taking the fun, dynamic and powerful part out of sorc utility/survivability and trying to turn them more into a bubble class. @Wrobel, please don't let this change to surge go live!

forgottengd

I don't know what are u smoke, but u kill Sorcerer as class. Now everyone has shields, and surge nerf do Sorcerer best crap class in the game. GG WP. I glad i have stam dk 50 lvl

ADarklore

It almost makes me wonder... are they thinking, "hey, we gave them a boost to Annulment, so now we can just reduce their healing ability to force them to use that instead of Surge. After all, Sorcs should simply be all about SHIELDS, not healing" ...or so they seem to think.

Jsmalls

Hahahaha, funny. Really really really funny.

That puts dark conversion as a 4400 heal for a 1 second cast time in PvP. Laughable. Seriously useless. Yes let me throw my hardened Ward on, heal myself for 4400 once, maybe twice, to have to reapply said Ward, because enemies in PvP are doing far more than 6k dps. And start that cycle over again. Oh and you'll be draining your stamina while doing this, so have fun getting Cc'd and not being able to break it.

Then to add insult to injury you take away our only good PvE heal!!! My frags and Overload in PvE heal me for 12k easy in vMA, now you want to change that to not even 2k a second!?!? You know how useless that becomes in PvP as well? Every opponent will have a Ward up with this new patch, so you can make it proc off of every crit, still won't change the fact that it WON'T be proccing. And when it does proc I don't think that 990 point heal is going to help sway the battle in my favor, 2k if battle spirit doesn't affect it...

If these changes go live, Sorc class is dead, no reliable selfheal in PvP or PvE, a 6 second Ward that will need to be reapplied constantly draining our magicka (if we don't have that Ward up we get one shot very easily), our only class heals being dark conversion which may be viable in PvE as a tank... Useless in PvP, and solo PvE due to its delayed one second cast time for a measly 4k PvP, 8k PvE. And the Twilight... Which requires 2 slots, can be killed easily, and just isn't a reliable heal or even that strong of a heal.

I recently tried using the Twilight as a replacement for a resto, stacked magicka to 50k on the back bar with sword and board because unlike the Templar's heal it strictly scales off magicka, and even then it was useless. You have to pray your enemy isn't smart enough to 1 shot your pet forcing you to recast a 1.5 second ability for any type of heal, and in a 1 v X scenario it's 100% useless. And to get to 50k magicka I had to use 3 toggles on my back bar, two toggles on my front bar. And doing that I still received a measly 7.5k heal on crits, much less than any decent player can dish out per second in PvP.

You're killing the Sorc class, if the changes for 2.4 go live I see myself rolling a Stamina night blade or magicka Templar, and shelving my Sorc until further notice.

Valrien

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

Hahahaha, funny. Really really really funny.

That puts dark conversion as a 4400 heal for a 1 second cast time in PvP. Laughable. Seriously useless. Yes let me throw my hardened Ward on, heal myself for 4400 once, maybe twice, to have to reapply said Ward, because enemies in PvP are doing far more than 6k dps. And start that cycle over again. Oh and you'll be draining your stamina while doing this, so have fun getting Cc'd and not being able to break it.

Then to add insult to injury you take away our only good PvE heal!!! My frags and Overload in PvE heal me for 12k easy in vMA, now you want to change that to not even 2k a second!?!? You know how useless that becomes in PvP as well? Every opponent will have a Ward up with this new patch, so you can make it proc off of every crit, still won't change the fact that it WON'T be proccing. And when it does proc I don't think that 990 point heal is going to help sway the battle in my favor, 2k if battle spirit doesn't affect it...

If these changes go live, Sorc class is dead, no reliable selfheal in PvP or PvE, a 6 second Ward that will need to be reapplied constantly draining our magicka (if we don't have that Ward up we get one shot very easily), our only class heals being dark conversion which may be viable in PvE as a tank... Useless in PvP, and solo PvE due to its delayed one second cast time for a measly 4k PvP, 8k PvE. And the Twilight... Which requires 2 slots, can be killed easily, and just isn't a reliable heal or even that strong of a heal.

I recently tried using the Twilight as a replacement for a resto, stacked magicka to 50k on the back bar with sword and board because unlike the Templar's heal it strictly scales off magicka, and even then it was useless. You have to pray your enemy isn't smart enough to 1 shot your pet forcing you to recast a 1.5 second ability for any type of heal, and in a 1 v X scenario it's 100% useless. And to get to 50k magicka I had to use 3 toggles on my back bar, two toggles on my front bar. And doing that I still received a measly 7.5k heal on crits, much less than any decent player can dish out per second in PvP.

You're killing the Sorc class, if the changes for 2.4 go live I see myself rolling a Stamina night blade or magicka Templar, and shelving my Sorc until further notice.

You don't even need to kill it. A long (30-seconds-ish) CC will do the job just fine since they can't break it. Rune Prison or Fossilize will take them out of the fight entirely.

Emma_Overload

Derra wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Tyrannitar wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

In PvP, the new Surge is a big buff, in my opinion. We were NEVER getting big heals off of targets that stacked Impenetrable (aka the good players), and we weren't getting any heals off DOT attacks like Velocious Curse or Rapid Strikes.

Yeah, maybe once in a blue moon I might get an 8K surge heal off of some sorry scrub I hit with an Overload light attack, but those types of heals never seem to come when you need them. I would much rather work with the more reliable, but reduced heal from the new Surge.

Most likely battlespirit not working atm is a bug.

Surge no longer "double dips" into battlespirit. It´s a fixed flat value that can also crit.

Why do i think that´s a bug? Because i can´t imagine 5k+ critical critsurge heals being working as intended for stamina sorcerers. That´s insane selfhealing.

But a confirmation of this being intended or not would be nice.

Edit: Also @Wrobel adjusting the value on a theoretically good skill to make it good is something that works. However the problem with dark exchange is not that it doesn´t do enough. The design of the skill is what keeps it from getting used.
You´d have to put it somewhere to 15k heal (in pvp) for me to ever consider slotting it. Even then i´d not be sure.

I'm loling at 5k self heals being labelled as "inSANe SELfHEalS"

That's on a 1 second cooldown.... That's really not that great compared to how it is on live right now.


Do you run a stam sorc?

A 5k selfheal in pvp. My post was strictly on pvp.

Also every dot triggering it makes it almost as reliable as funnel as long as something is doing dmg. 3k+ passive hps in pvp is pretty damn good.

Yeah that's what I keep trying to tell people. I don't think a lot of Sorcs really know what their sustained HPS has been, they just notice those occasional big Surge heals when the number crawls up their screen. I definitely do look at HPS, and I can attest that in PvP, it is really low... like 1K HPS if you are lucky. In PvE it's much migher, but then we have huge Wards in PvE, anyway.

My rotation consists of a lot of Crushing Shock, Velocious Curse and Light Attacks with only occasional procced Frags. Except for the Frags, none of these produce big Surge heals, and Curse doesn't proc Surge at all on Live. I expect the new Surge will double my HPS in PvP, maybe even triple it if I adjust my CP passives to maximize heals.

I had a build specifically tailored to use surge heals as a way to keep my HP in check even against shieldbreaker. Given a target to attack it would average roughly 2000 to 2500 hps.
However for me the changes to powersurge are a nerf as i will probably keep the same sustained heal but will loose "burst" heals from fragments or overload and proccs. Reliable constant healing creates more "fluff" heal that´s effectively wasted bc i´m at full HP anyways.
That´s mainly an issue for my personal build though. For the general sorc the changes to surge are a small buff in pvp when strictly looking at numbers.

However if battlespirit not working on surge heals currently is a bug and this gets changed (i expect this to happen as surge no longer "double dips") surge will have gotten a huge nerf across the board for all specs (bc thats 990 heal for powersurge and 1500 heal for critsurge once a second).

Well, if the flat value Surge heal gets cut in half by Battle Spirit, that's going to be too small. They're going to need to raise the value of the heal to compensate.

AhPook_Is_Here

I agree they should blow up the pet line. I would like a DD like Resonance Blast and a targeted aoe like Kel's Neutronium Plaything.

I think the multipliers for sorcs abilities need to be looked at. As a DD, single target on my sorc i can do about 24k without much work or luck, with the same gear on my magblade around 30-32k. As a tank on my sorc I feel I have less staying-power than my NB and do around 5k dps while tanking single target, 8k multi-target, my NB while being much harder to kill can do 12k single while tanking and 20k+ multi-target depending on number of targets.

I like my sorc for PVP, but not sure I will after this patch, other than the fact that burst damage won't buy you much against dodge rolling, rally spaming, shield spaming with shuffle up dodging your frags nbs and dks who will also be using 2 medum armor sets that are going to make this play style way better than it is today. I usually play solo and that won't be fun with 12-24 man groups each running 1 specific poison to avoid trait reduction of the poison effects all spaming them on AOES. So I will prob go back to my DK or my NB if I even bother with Cyrodiil, and of course I will have to group up to join some blob of **** players for AOE cap cover. It really is getting stupid, whole PVP game is just about making a big Venn diagram.

TiberX

forgottengd wrote: »

I don't know what are u smoke, but u kill Sorcerer as class. Now everyone has shields, and surge nerf do Sorcerer best crap class in the game.

Agreed!

Tyrannitar

Lucky28 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Tyrannitar wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

@Wrobel

After testing on the PTS, this critsurge is such a NERF. And dark conversion is simply bad you can double the heal.again and it's still bad. Just give us a spammable in that tree in its place and let blood magic handle the rest. You already have a black bolt skill in game that some NPCs fire off, there that goes nice in our black magic skill tree. And just kill bound armor already, make it give 8% more health and change the pet 8%health to magic. Now we have a good reason to alot your weak pets.

And for the love of all make pets non toggles. Let them be summoned till they die and allow us to put the skills on the bar we want instead.

Make twilight tormentor an actual choice, have it be like the inferno skill, sending off a single target ability every 2 seconds like the AOE pet that either roots on every hit or stuns on last hit. Options, pets are not good enough to be on every one of our limited bars. This would instead allow us to have the pets and only toggle we will now NEED is inner light.

Just fix the Sorc. I am not even asking for shield duration anymore.

I felt like I was alone screaming that this surge update was a joke. PLAY THE PTS, we got NERFED. Not BUFFED.

Please please please don't put this into live @Wrobel

The only occasion where it´s a buff is pvp stamsorc (yay unicorns got buffed) - where it´s most likely a bug bc battlespirit does not affect surge heals atm.

another nerf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUXAHc-ABoY

We didn't even get buffed in pvp >.>

The 1.5k heal we have I could literally get from light attacking someone in full impen on live currently.

Tyrannitar

wookikiller95 wrote: »

This is all your Stam SORC Love?

Srsly... This is the kind of love a psychopathic serial killer would show someone they wanted to torture

Joy_Division

The surge flat value is a terrible idea because the game is dynamic and what are considered "average' numbers ever changing.

I do not believe for a second ZoS will go through the trouble to figure out what ought to be the target number for this specific ability every single content update. Look at how Dragon's Blood, another heal based of a non-scaling value (our health pools) has been disregarded for over a year now.

Besides, the target value ZoS came up with it too small. I get about 1800 right now on a surge heal by crushing shock spam, let's not even get into the burst healing a sorc can get from a crystal frag or an Overload attack that will not be possible next patch.

And, If I recall correctly, on Live this has a cooldown of a quarter of a second. Now ZoS want to make this one second.

There is no way I trade all that for the convenience of procing off a DoT. Skill is worse and in my opinion noticeably so.

Grao

You know... For two weeks I kept on giving suggestions and answering posts in this thread... And it is depressing. Clearly Zenimax is not reading our posts as we haven't got a single response from them and their changes... Not only they aren't enough to help Stamina sorcerer's out of the hole, they make magika sorcerers even freaking worse than they already were...

@Wrobel ... Honestly, I don't know how to keep having faith on you. You and your team really suck at your job, sorry to say it.

Tyrannitar

Joy_Division wrote: »

The surge flat value is a terrible idea because the game is dynamic and what are considered "average' numbers ever changing.

I do not believe for a second ZoS will go through the trouble to figure out what ought to be the target number for this specific ability every single content update. Look at how Dragon's Blood, another heal based of a non-scaling value (our health pools) has been disregarded for over a year now.

Besides, the target value ZoS came up with it too small. I get about 1800 right now on a surge heal by crushing shock spam, let's not even get into the burst healing a sorc can get from a crystal frag or an Overload attack that will not be possible next patch.

And, If I recall correctly, on Live this has a cooldown of a quarter of a second. Now ZoS want to make this one second.

There is no way I trade all that for the convenience of procing off a DoT. Skill is worse and in my opinion noticeably so.

Dude, it's a .1 on live. In a previous patch they buffed us, kind of. They removed DoTs affecting it but the cooldown was reduced to .1 in 1.6 IIRC, and now they're taking it away and making it worse than when it had a full 1 second cooldown!!!! At least way back then it still scaled off of damage done! Way more than this 3k/ 1.5k in pvp

@Wrobel, you do realize that at one point it didn't have a cooldown and people *still* laughed about it's viability?!? Like pre-impen days I ran a stam sorc and people in Legend literally laughed. Rightfully so. We're hurting right now and just got punched in the gut.

iafjpowiefpawoei I'm losing my mind here

bloodenragedb14_ESO

Grao wrote: »

You know... For two weeks I kept on giving suggestions and answering posts in this thread... And it is depressing. Clearly Zenimax is not reading our posts as we haven't got a single response from them and their changes... Not only they aren't enough to help Stamina sorcerer's out of the hole, they make magika sorcerers even freaking worse than they already were...

@Wrobel ... Honestly, I don't know how to keep having faith on you. You and your team really suck at your job, sorry to say it.

Agreed.

im paranoid, and some part of me thinks that they are intentionally doing this to make the most outraged of us to leave in exasperation, allowing them to post these changes with little to no opposition

well ya know what? not happening, and i advise all of you to fight against this even harder now.

Grao

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

You know... For two weeks I kept on giving suggestions and answering posts in this thread... And it is depressing. Clearly Zenimax is not reading our posts as we haven't got a single response from them and their changes... Not only they aren't enough to help Stamina sorcerer's out of the hole, they make magika sorcerers even freaking worse than they already were...

@Wrobel ... Honestly, I don't know how to keep having faith on you. You and your team really suck at your job, sorry to say it.

Agreed.

im paranoid, and some part of me thinks that they are intentionally doing this to make the most outraged of us to leave in exasperation, allowing them to post these changes with little to no opposition

well ya know what? not happening, and i advise all of you to fight against this even harder now.

It is a losing battle man... I am fighting some of their nerfs since Beta and nothing gets better. They just keep making the class worse >.>

We are still heavily tied to Destro staves, we still have half of our skills and passives pretty much useless, pets are still ***, we still have ZERO utility to offer a raid group (please don't even mention minor prophecy. That is pathetic considering the other classes offer chains, Nova, veil and more).

I am just tired and frustrated of every large patch coming, giving suggestions, begging Zenimax to actually come and talk to us... But it never happens. They just don't care.

Tyrannitar

This surge flat-heal thing is seriously terrifying.

I don't understand why @wrobel REFUSES to remove the cooldown altogether

Or REFUSES to give us a crystal punch stam morph

It's like the devs are so stubborn against certain ideas from the community that they refuse to see the reason behind them, or even give it a test run on the PTS...

Instead, we get well-intentioned crit-surge nerfs. It's obvious the team is trying to be earnest here and help us out at least a little... I mean

The minor expedition buff on hurricane is awesome.

It really sucks that I won't be able to check that out, though, as my dps is getting knocked and my survivability is so low that Cyrodiil looks like craglorn public dungeons at level 2 without scaling.

Crystal Frag stam morph (w/ either empower/ insta-cast and the knockdown cc)

Crit Surge (remove cooldown, allow DoTs to proc it.)

Literally these two things would stop all gripe from the stam-sorc end at this point.

PLEASE consider them.

Minalan

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

You know... For two weeks I kept on giving suggestions and answering posts in this thread... And it is depressing. Clearly Zenimax is not reading our posts as we haven't got a single response from them and their changes... Not only they aren't enough to help Stamina sorcerer's out of the hole, they make magika sorcerers even freaking worse than they already were...

@Wrobel ... Honestly, I don't know how to keep having faith on you. You and your team really suck at your job, sorry to say it.

Agreed.

im paranoid, and some part of me thinks that they are intentionally doing this to make the most outraged of us to leave in exasperation, allowing them to post these changes with little to no opposition

well ya know what? not happening, and i advise all of you to fight against this even harder now.

Fight what? Lol. You have no power here.

You know what you can do?

1. Unsubscribe.
2. Don't buy the new content.
3. Play something else, vote with your wallet.

The ZOS combat designers have their ideas on what to make the game, they're incredibly stubborn about it. So let them wonder why all of their sorc player base neglected to buy their latest release.

Grao

Minalan wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

You know... For two weeks I kept on giving suggestions and answering posts in this thread... And it is depressing. Clearly Zenimax is not reading our posts as we haven't got a single response from them and their changes... Not only they aren't enough to help Stamina sorcerer's out of the hole, they make magika sorcerers even freaking worse than they already were...

@Wrobel ... Honestly, I don't know how to keep having faith on you. You and your team really suck at your job, sorry to say it.

Agreed.

im paranoid, and some part of me thinks that they are intentionally doing this to make the most outraged of us to leave in exasperation, allowing them to post these changes with little to no opposition

well ya know what? not happening, and i advise all of you to fight against this even harder now.

Fight what? Lol. You have no power here.

You know what you can do?

1. Unsubscribe.
2. Don't buy the new content.
3. Play something else, vote with your wallet.

The ZOS combat designers have their ideas on what to make the game, they're incredibly stubborn about it. So let them wonder why all of their sorc player base neglected to buy their latest release.

Sad reality? Even this little power we don't have. Not unless we could organize a group of at least 50 sorcerers to cancel their subscription all at once and afterward come to the forum and make a thread explaining their reasoning. It will never happen.

Minalan

Grao wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

You know... For two weeks I kept on giving suggestions and answering posts in this thread... And it is depressing. Clearly Zenimax is not reading our posts as we haven't got a single response from them and their changes... Not only they aren't enough to help Stamina sorcerer's out of the hole, they make magika sorcerers even freaking worse than they already were...

@Wrobel ... Honestly, I don't know how to keep having faith on you. You and your team really suck at your job, sorry to say it.

Agreed.

im paranoid, and some part of me thinks that they are intentionally doing this to make the most outraged of us to leave in exasperation, allowing them to post these changes with little to no opposition

well ya know what? not happening, and i advise all of you to fight against this even harder now.

Fight what? Lol. You have no power here.

You know what you can do?

1. Unsubscribe.
2. Don't buy the new content.
3. Play something else, vote with your wallet.

The ZOS combat designers have their ideas on what to make the game, they're incredibly stubborn about it. So let them wonder why all of their sorc player base neglected to buy their latest release.

Sad reality? Even this little power we don't have. Not unless we could organize a group of at least 50 sorcerers to cancel their subscription all at once and afterward come to the forum and make a thread explaining their reasoning. It will never happen.

Don't leave to get 'back at' anyone, do it for yourself. Just leave feedback with customer service when you do cancel (there's a link) and go play something you enjoy.

Let go, life is too short to get mad about some f***-wit peon video game designer.

I'm part of a guild that plays a lot of different games, it makes it real easy. And I'll be back again when they do a 'Worm Cult' necromancy expansion and (finally) revamp sorcs.

ForsakenSin

FearlessOne_2014


[/quote]

Not going to lie I used to main Sorc since the 2014 release even main it through the sorcerer dark ages. But these days even tho I love playing sorcerer in other RPGs and such I just don't feel like the sorcerer class in this is a actual sorcerer. I more so feel that the Templar should have been the actual sorcerer, and they should have just made current sorcerer into a Summoner that focus on pet/player synergy for damage and support. I think that the non sorcerer community of this game just want sorcs to be free kills because they are sword wielders.

I wish sorcerers in this game was the true glass cannons of magicka with a high risk high reward playstyle like Nightblade was supposed to been. But w/e one must adapt.

But ya if you like the mage archetype then I highly recommend switching to Magicka Templar so much more fun and versatile in pvp atm. [/quote]



LOL unfortunately im ahead of you ive already started playing Magic Templar and at level 16 i can fell just how much nerferd mages are ...

STEVIL

Been playing sorc since day 1, as well as the other four classes tho they not since day 1.
Still have 2 sor, 3 temp and 3 nb and plan to make my first #9 slot a khajit sorc stamina flavor as well as convert my imperial sorc into sta as well with the upcoming respec.

So, all in all, these changes excite me.

YMMV.

LordSidious

Dear ZOS,

Due to your inability to effectively listen to feedback, develop an enhanced gameplay experience, and seek counsel from the community, we cast a vote of no-confidence in your ability to develop and support this title.

We may not be your shareholders, investors, or executives, but we are your customers. Customers that you painfully ignore since it's clear that any decision maker within your organization is out of touch with the community in which they make their living off of. It is clear that this studio was not ready to take on the task of expanding the experience of the Elder Scrolls universe.

Your community will crumble as AAA titles that are supported and driven by their fanbase take your customers away. The fact that you create an official feedback thread and not even provide a single reply shows how insignificant feedback is to the development of your product.

Sincerely,

A Sorcerer