Official Feedback Thread for Sorcerers

SublimeSparo

zos keeps spoiling my favourite characters.
First my dk tank with the stam regen nerf
Then my nb tank with with the siphoning attacks nerf
Now my revived dk tank is getting battered again by more tanking nerfs and my sorc... well there's not much sorc left; between everyone getting shields and this nerf to surge what is left-
a toggle, frags, mines, curse, 2 underwhelming aoe dots, toggle pets, a constantly nerfed ult, a useless ult, a powerful but buggy ult. Meh.

STEVIL

Dear ZOS

I won't use a "we" since I am not entitled to speak for anyone but myself and won't claim to do so.

I disagree with almost everything said in the letter below and encourage you to continue forward with your development, playtest, revision and production of new content for a game which i consider fun, well-done and very interesting.

i am intrigued by the Db DLC and the gameplay changes forthcoming.

With sincere thanks,

A Customer.

LordSidious wrote: »

Dear ZOS,

Due to your inability to effectively listen to feedback, develop an enhanced gameplay experience, and seek counsel from the community, we cast a vote of no-confidence in your ability to develop and support this title.

We may not be your shareholders, investors, or executives, but we are your customers. Customers that you painfully ignore since it's clear that any decision maker within your organization is out of touch with the community in which they make their living off of. It is clear that this studio was not ready to take on the task of expanding the experience of the Elder Scrolls universe.

Your community will crumble as AAA titles that are supported and driven by their fanbase take your customers away. The fact that you create an official feedback thread and not even provide a single reply shows how insignificant feedback is to the development of your product.

Sincerely,

A Sorcerer

Tyrannitar

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Tyrannitar wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

In PvP, the new Surge is a big buff, in my opinion. We were NEVER getting big heals off of targets that stacked Impenetrable (aka the good players), and we weren't getting any heals off DOT attacks like Velocious Curse or Rapid Strikes.

Yeah, maybe once in a blue moon I might get an 8K surge heal off of some sorry scrub I hit with an Overload light attack, but those types of heals never seem to come when you need them. I would much rather work with the more reliable, but reduced heal from the new Surge.

Most likely battlespirit not working atm is a bug.

Surge no longer "double dips" into battlespirit. It´s a fixed flat value that can also crit.

Why do i think that´s a bug? Because i can´t imagine 5k+ critical critsurge heals being working as intended for stamina sorcerers. That´s insane selfhealing.

But a confirmation of this being intended or not would be nice.

Edit: Also @Wrobel adjusting the value on a theoretically good skill to make it good is something that works. However the problem with dark exchange is not that it doesn´t do enough. The design of the skill is what keeps it from getting used.
You´d have to put it somewhere to 15k heal (in pvp) for me to ever consider slotting it. Even then i´d not be sure.

I'm loling at 5k self heals being labelled as "inSANe SELfHEalS"

That's on a 1 second cooldown.... That's really not that great compared to how it is on live right now.


Do you run a stam sorc?

A 5k selfheal in pvp. My post was strictly on pvp.

Also every dot triggering it makes it almost as reliable as funnel as long as something is doing dmg. 3k+ passive hps in pvp is pretty damn good.

Yeah that's what I keep trying to tell people. I don't think a lot of Sorcs really know what their sustained HPS has been, they just notice those occasional big Surge heals when the number crawls up their screen. I definitely do look at HPS, and I can attest that in PvP, it is really low... like 1K HPS if you are lucky. In PvE it's much migher, but then we have huge Wards in PvE, anyway.

My rotation consists of a lot of Crushing Shock, Velocious Curse and Light Attacks with only occasional procced Frags. Except for the Frags, none of these produce big Surge heals, and Curse doesn't proc Surge at all on Live. I expect the new Surge will double my HPS in PvP, maybe even triple it if I adjust my CP passives to maximize heals.

.... Anyone with FTC and sustained dps over 26k knows that this surge nerf gives a significant (around 13k) drop in hps.

ForsakenSin

After careful examination i have diagnosed that mages are suffering from severe Dissociative Identity Disorder.

"Im a glass cannon" ( with low dps compared to others ), " no wait .. im a Summoner" ( pets are useless and die)," no wait im a healer" ( ..heals are joke and pets die again )... "wait wait Im a tank yes with a bit of DPS " ( harden ward nerfed place more points in health take it from mana and get even lower dps) ........ and i believe you can see the point....


And in famous words of Jeremy Clarkson


"And on that bombshell...... am i the only one looking forward to Battlefield 1 ?"

RoxyPhoenix

why dont we start a petition, get votes, make them listen, maybe it'll help.
https://change.org/

byrom101b16_ESO

Oh look - no official response to the overwhelmingly negative feedback on this thread!

No interim assurances they will look at the issues.

No hint they are going to patch again to change things.

No explanation as to whey they made such massive and fundamental nerfs to Mag. Sorcs. and the viability of PvP and PvE for them.

No sign an OFFICIAL feedback thread means any more to them then a random thread buried in an irrelevant forum which they can ignore with impunity.

It's not like we haven't been telling them they have completely messed up for many days now is it...?

I find this lack of response to be absolutely unacceptable.

Who the hell do they think they are?

If this continues on much more I am going to be putting together a formal complaint letter to them and to the relevant consumer watchdog.

It is about time people engaged at this level in the same way consumers of other products do, and stop rolling over for poor treatment by untouchable developers who think they can significantly change the experience of the product during it's use with impunity, and ignore their customers.

Voting with one's wallet is one thing, sure.

Pressing for a change in consumer rights as regards such products is another.

They can't change the engine control software on your car to reduce performance without your permission! Accepting that a game develops over time - they should not be able to make your favourite toon useless - they should have to demonstrate that their changes are acceptable.

That's not what the T&Cs say of course, and that is far from the current situation...

... but aren't your TIRED of moving from MMO to MMO having your characters and experience degraded and unduly messed with by the same developers making the same stupid mistakes and doing it in a way which is a carbon copy of every other previous disdainful demonstration of how irrelevant they feel their players/customers opinions are?

I am.

You should be too - because this *** won't change unless you force it to.

Minalan

Dear ZOS,

I disagree with everything the below poster said, and encourage you to seriously look at the mess you're making of Sorcerer. The performance in PVE, as well as viability in PVP.

With sincere hopes,
A Customer

STEVIL wrote: »

Dear ZOS

I won't use a "we" since I am not entitled to speak for anyone but myself and won't claim to do so.

I disagree with almost everything said in the letter below and encourage you to continue forward with your development, playtest, revision and production of new content for a game which i consider fun, well-done and very interesting.

i am intrigued by the Db DLC and the gameplay changes forthcoming.

With sincere thanks,

A Customer.

LordSidious wrote: »

Dear ZOS,

Due to your inability to effectively listen to feedback, develop an enhanced gameplay experience, and seek counsel from the community, we cast a vote of no-confidence in your ability to develop and support this title.

We may not be your shareholders, investors, or executives, but we are your customers. Customers that you painfully ignore since it's clear that any decision maker within your organization is out of touch with the community in which they make their living off of. It is clear that this studio was not ready to take on the task of expanding the experience of the Elder Scrolls universe.

Your community will crumble as AAA titles that are supported and driven by their fanbase take your customers away. The fact that you create an official feedback thread and not even provide a single reply shows how insignificant feedback is to the development of your product.

Sincerely,

A Sorcerer

bloodenragedb14_ESO

ForsakenSin wrote: »

After careful examination i have diagnosed that mages are suffering from severe Dissociative Identity Disorder.

"Im a glass cannon" ( with low dps compared to others ), " no wait .. im a Summoner" ( pets are useless and die)," no wait im a healer" ( ..heals are joke and pets die again )... "wait wait Im a tank yes with a bit of DPS " ( harden ward nerfed place more points in health take it from mana and get even lower dps) ........ and i believe you can see the point....


And in famous words of Jeremy Clarkson


"And on that bombshell...... am i the only one looking forward to Battlefield 1 ?"

if the changes

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

Oh look - no official response to the overwhelmingly negative feedback on this thread!

No interim assurances they will look at the issues.

No hint they are going to patch again to change things.

No explanation as to whey they made such massive and fundamental nerfs to Mag. Sorcs. and the viability of PvP and PvE for them.

No sign an OFFICIAL feedback thread means any more to them then a random thread buried in an irrelevant forum which they can ignore with impunity.

It's not like we haven't been telling them they have completely messed up for many days now is it...?

I find this lack of response to be absolutely unacceptable.

Who the hell do they think they are?

If this continues on much more I am going to be putting together a formal complaint letter to them and to the relevant consumer watchdog.

It is about time people engaged at this level in the same way consumers of other products do, and stop rolling over for poor treatment by untouchable developers who think they can significantly change the experience of the product during it's use with impunity, and ignore their customers.

Voting with one's wallet is one thing, sure.

Pressing for a change in consumer rights as regards such products is another.

They can't change the engine control software to reduce performance without your permission! Accepting that a game develops over time - they should not be able to make your favourite toon useless - they should have to demonstrate that their changes are acceptable.

That's not what the T&Cs say of course, and that is far from the current situation...

... but aren't your TIRED of moving from MMO to MMO having your characters and experience degraded and unduly messed with by the same developers making the same stupid mistakes and doing it in a way which is a carbon copy of every other previous disdainful demonstration of how irrelevant they feel their players/customers opinions are?

I am.

You should be too - because this *** won't change unless you force it to.

a perfect representation of my feelings on the matter

kmatt

STAM MORPH OF OVERLOAD,

Failing that change how Ultimats work so if its scaling off Stam it does physical damage and if its scaling off magic do magic damage for all class skills, this means that the champion point system works for your build.

Stam sorc needs some love still although hurricane is some nice improvement to its damage it has lost its utility of movement speed which was a big reason to use.

Again ill ask for the "Stone Shard" morph that is the Stam version of the morph we already have that adds a little AoE.

Last thing to say, make the passives useful as a stam sorc half of them are useless and no point taking & now with fighters guild changes we are punished for using our own class skills over fighters guild skills. Something like Major mending when dadric summoning skill is slotted, or at least change the pet passives to be useful to some extent without pets.

byrom101b16_ESO

kmatt wrote: »

STAM MORPH OF OVERLOAD,

Failing that change how Ultimats work so if its scaling off Stam it does physical damage and if its scaling off magic do magic damage for all class skills, this means that the champion point system works for your build.

Stam sorc needs some love still although hurricane is some nice improvement to its damage it has lost its utility of movement speed which was a big reason to use.

Again ill ask for the "Stone Shard" morph that is the Stam version of the morph we already have that adds a little AoE.

Last thing to say, make the passives useful as a stam sorc half of them are useless and no point taking & now with fighters guild changes we are punished for using our own class skills over fighters guild skills. Something like Major mending when dadric summoning skill is slotted, or at least change the pet passives to be useful to some extent without pets.

Stam Sorc is actually in a far better place than Mag. Sorc. now.

You guys deserve the boost FINALLY, and if other tweaks would further improve your lot - then by all means ask for them.

I would appreciate it if you could also comment on the Mag. Sorcs. nerfs however, as this is the overall Sorc. thread, and Stam. Sorcs. have the benefit of their own exclusive thread to feedback on.

ADarklore

kmatt wrote: »

STAM MORPH OF OVERLOAD,

Failing that change how Ultimats work so if its scaling off Stam it does physical damage and if its scaling off magic do magic damage for all class skills, this means that the champion point system works for your build.

Stam sorc needs some love still although hurricane is some nice improvement to its damage it has lost its utility of movement speed which was a big reason to use.

Again ill ask for the "Stone Shard" morph that is the Stam version of the morph we already have that adds a little AoE.

Last thing to say, make the passives useful as a stam sorc half of them are useless and no point taking & now with fighters guild changes we are punished for using our own class skills over fighters guild skills. Something like Major mending when dadric summoning skill is slotted, or at least change the pet passives to be useful to some extent without pets.

The latest patch notes state, "Hurricane (Lightning Form morph): This morph now also grants the Minor Expedition buff at all times while it is active."

bloodenragedb14_ESO

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

kmatt wrote: »

STAM MORPH OF OVERLOAD,

Failing that change how Ultimats work so if its scaling off Stam it does physical damage and if its scaling off magic do magic damage for all class skills, this means that the champion point system works for your build.

Stam sorc needs some love still although hurricane is some nice improvement to its damage it has lost its utility of movement speed which was a big reason to use.

Again ill ask for the "Stone Shard" morph that is the Stam version of the morph we already have that adds a little AoE.

Last thing to say, make the passives useful as a stam sorc half of them are useless and no point taking & now with fighters guild changes we are punished for using our own class skills over fighters guild skills. Something like Major mending when dadric summoning skill is slotted, or at least change the pet passives to be useful to some extent without pets.

Stam Sorc is actually in a far better place than Mag. Sorc. now.

You guys deserve the boost FINALLY, and if other tweaks would further improve your lot - then by all means ask for them.

I would appreciate it if you could also comment on the Mag. Sorcs. nerfs however, as this is the overall Sorc. thread, and Stam. Sorcs. have the benefit of their own exclusive thread to feedback on.

id rather not have to 'donate' skills to a niche build that contridicts the purpose of a sorcerer, who is a master of magic. Mag sorc should be better, in most respects, to stam sorc. you guys want a buff? you should be calling for duel scaling, like the skills scale off your highest stat.

TheHsN

@Wrobel
@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom ,

Hi to you all,

-First of all i hope you are reading all the comments and see how magicka players(specially SORCS) are unmotiveted before DLC come LIVE...
-All DB DLC is dedicated to Stamina Builds. i was very happy at the announcment of DB DLC.. but now eveery single patch you apply to DLC you are pusing me to leave the game...Since This month i was a SUB.reiber..but after see all those thing at the DLC there is not a single thing u make for magicka what could i do...And even u take away all good thing from magicka..
-I hope you are going to fix things back for us and actually bring somethings it this DLC for us too...
-As a Former SUB player i think you need to give ys something to play and sub again...While there isnt for me even more then that u take what we have how u expect that we play this game ...

i hope u notice what u do before somethings late...

Thank you guys.

NativeJoe

********************************************************************************************************
My one request that All sorcs can then explore and make use of.... is simple....
********************************************************************************************************

make CP effect pets. (and proc pets)

Boom. Thats my only request for this patch.

Nerf me to the ground, give everyone my mitigation techniques, and nerf my heals... just give my pets some CP and we'll sort the rest out later. Only request.

bloodenragedb14_ESO

[

NativeJoe wrote: »

********************************************************************************************************
My one request that All sorcs can then explore and make use of.... is simple....
********************************************************************************************************

make CP effect pets. (and proc pets)

Boom. Thats my only request for this patch.

Nerf me to the ground, give everyone my mitigation techniques, and nerf my heals... just give my pets some CP and we'll sort the rest out later. Only request.

ill ask for that and more, we should not have to compromise, do not give in, do not surrender, do not compromise.
compromise is how all the crappy fixes we now have to live with got pushed to live server.
i understand the exasperation, the resignment, but dont let it get to you, fight it, fight it everywhere on the net you can, not just here, twitchs, twiiter, facebook, dont give in, keep the pressure on.

andryuhav

It seems that ZOS tends to completely ignore negative and rage driven feedback, but hey - to hell with mr. @Wrobel for his vision on how the class should be changed.
I hope you get nightmares with angry sorcs trying to deal with you using your wonderful hurricane.

byrom101b16_ESO

andryuhav wrote: »

It seems that ZOS tends to completely ignore negative and rage driven feedback, but hey - to hell with mr. @Wrobel for his vision on how the class should be changed.
I hope you get nightmares with angry sorcs trying to deal with you using your wonderful hurricane.

They respond most frequently to positive feedback or bug fix information with a lot of analysis and observational data behind it.

Translation: The player base doing their job for them...

However, this belies the fact that they seem make decisions on what to change in advance of knowing how it will pan out. Yet if they DO know what it will result in (as anyone sensible tries to do before they deliberately change something by design), they don't actually need the feedback on things other than bugs...

This demonstrates a lack of internal testing, a lack of knowledge on how the classes play, and a lack of appreciation of their customers motivations.

Now think about a car manufacturer not doing the above, and extrapolate what their sales would look like...?

The problem here is that the customer base doesn't know how to complain, doesn't want to complain, and even defends the poor performance of the developer due to their need to continue getting their MMO fix.

THIS is why MMO developers have such arrogant disregard for their customers, and value their own opinions above those of the people paying their salaries.

As long as customers of MMOs are passive sheep and roll over for them, attack those that do have the balls to speak up, or play the 'salty tears' card when someone gets upset about a part of the game THEY don't care about - the MMO developer customer service will resemble a politician's approach to their electorate just AFTER they have won a new term in office.

We don't make them improve, so they don't improve.

It's axiomatic.

STEVIL

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

They respond most frequently to positive feedback or bug fix information with a lot of analysis and observational data behind it.

Translation: The player base doing their job for them...

.

Translation: Players and playtesters offering cogent arguments presented reasonably supported by facts as opposed to rants driven by opinion de jour.

Uhhh... yeah.

AhPook_Is_Here

My magblade heals around 15-18k/s while dpsing ~30k/s. If you want to fix surge, just make it trigger off of all crits without any cool-down on the heal and if that is producing more than 15k/s healing, change the value it returns from crit damage by a fraction of the crit instead of the full value till it falls in line with magicka NB healing, which apparently isn't overpowered and also applies to other allies in the area unlike sorc healing. I am sure it will be effected by battle spirit anyway already giving it a 50% multiplier against what should be a majority of crit resistant targets. I don't really see the problem here. It still won't be a huge amount of self healing for tanks who will end up giving up a lot of crit to gain other types of mitigation and regeneration.

Just take a chance guys, surge was fine for the first half of the game, and it was only OP really when you guys messed up ultimate capping off of streak in PVP (which was good times, I admit!) It was never bad on it's own, just bad because of related bugs you guys left unfixed too long. Make surge good again.

ZOS_DaryaK

We removed a couple of posts that were not contributing to the discussion. We understand this is a polarizing issue for some players, please avoid personal attacks and keep your comments focused on the topic.

Minalan

STEVIL wrote: »

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

They respond most frequently to positive feedback or bug fix information with a lot of analysis and observational data behind it.

Translation: The player base doing their job for them...

.

Translation: Players and playtesters offering cogent arguments presented reasonably supported by facts as opposed to rants driven by opinion de jour.

Uhhh... yeah.

We've sort of already done that. PVE survival issues. PVE sustained DPS issues. PVP stun after four or five seconds of shields and instant-dead issues. Pet build issues. Class variety. Increased ganks. Resource management issues. Ridiculous short TTK issues without shield. Getting one shotted in PVE without a shield issues. Trial survivability issues.

They don't care. Go roll a Magicka Templar/Nightblade. Seriously, take your money elsewhere because they just don't want it. Take a pass on this content, come back when they revamp the class in the necromancy patch everyone is screaming for. The absolute most important decision you can make is where to spend your monthly $15 or the $20 content money. They really won't care until thousands of people cancel or don't buy.

I sort of 'get' the change. If you played Skyrim, you'd know that the warding spells were all active, they only lasted as long as you held the button down, and it constantly drained Magicka while up. You couldn't cast offensive magic with a shield up. It's lore. That's how it always worked. I just don't think it was very enjoyable as a mechanic, and I don't think it fits in a game with gap closers, poisons, and instant death right out of cloak.

STEVIL

Minalan wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

They respond most frequently to positive feedback or bug fix information with a lot of analysis and observational data behind it.

Translation: The player base doing their job for them...

.

Translation: Players and playtesters offering cogent arguments presented reasonably supported by facts as opposed to rants driven by opinion de jour.

Uhhh... yeah.

We've sort of already done that. PVE survival issues. PVE sustained DPS issues. PVP stun after four or five seconds of shields and instant-dead issues. Pet build issues. Class variety. Increased ganks. Resource management issues. Ridiculous short TTK issues without shield. Getting one shotted in PVE without a shield issues. Trial survivability issues.

They don't care. Go roll a Magicka Templar/Nightblade. Seriously, take your money elsewhere because they just don't want it. Take a pass on this content, come back when they revamp the class in the necromancy patch everyone is screaming for. The absolute most important decision you can make is where to spend your monthly $15 or the $20 content money. They really won't care until thousands of people cancel or don't buy.

I sort of 'get' the change. If you played Skyrim, you'd know that the warding spells were all active, they only lasted as long as you held the button down, and it constantly drained Magicka while up. You couldn't cast offensive magic with a shield up. It's lore. That's how it always worked. I just don't think it was very enjoyable as a mechanic, and I don't think it fits in a game with gap closers, poisons, and instant death right out of cloak.

That is where i exist in a different reality than you.

In the first two patches, there are NUMEROUS examples of ZOS obvioysly listening to feedback and making changes that were at least responsive to even if not exactly matching what any specific suggestion was.

There is a world of difference between "they dont care" and "they didnt give me the exact change i want" and thsts where I play the game and enjoy it immensly.

Its now a couple of weeks into the playtest, the sun came up again and I believe that between now and release at least one more favorable to some or many players tweak will be made without needing thousands of people leaving in an exodus to cause it.

Call it a hunch.

Ajax_22

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

kmatt wrote: »

STAM MORPH OF OVERLOAD,

Failing that change how Ultimats work so if its scaling off Stam it does physical damage and if its scaling off magic do magic damage for all class skills, this means that the champion point system works for your build.

Stam sorc needs some love still although hurricane is some nice improvement to its damage it has lost its utility of movement speed which was a big reason to use.

Again ill ask for the "Stone Shard" morph that is the Stam version of the morph we already have that adds a little AoE.

Last thing to say, make the passives useful as a stam sorc half of them are useless and no point taking & now with fighters guild changes we are punished for using our own class skills over fighters guild skills. Something like Major mending when dadric summoning skill is slotted, or at least change the pet passives to be useful to some extent without pets.

Stam Sorc is actually in a far better place than Mag. Sorc. now.

You guys deserve the boost FINALLY, and if other tweaks would further improve your lot - then by all means ask for them.

I would appreciate it if you could also comment on the Mag. Sorcs. nerfs however, as this is the overall Sorc. thread, and Stam. Sorcs. have the benefit of their own exclusive thread to feedback on.

id rather not have to 'donate' skills to a niche build that contridicts the purpose of a sorcerer, who is a master of magic. Mag sorc should be better, in most respects, to stam sorc. you guys want a buff? you should be calling for duel scaling, like the skills scale off your highest stat.

I'd rather not read another one of these ignorant post from someone who has no idea what an Elder Scrolls Sorcerer is. You should go do some research before you dismiss my class that is just a lore friendly as yours. Additionally, don't tell me what buffs I should be asking for if you've never played my class, dual scaling is just a terrible idea.

Oblivion Sorcerer

Morrowind Sorcerer

Grao

Ajax_22 wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

kmatt wrote: »

STAM MORPH OF OVERLOAD,

Failing that change how Ultimats work so if its scaling off Stam it does physical damage and if its scaling off magic do magic damage for all class skills, this means that the champion point system works for your build.

Stam sorc needs some love still although hurricane is some nice improvement to its damage it has lost its utility of movement speed which was a big reason to use.

Again ill ask for the "Stone Shard" morph that is the Stam version of the morph we already have that adds a little AoE.

Last thing to say, make the passives useful as a stam sorc half of them are useless and no point taking & now with fighters guild changes we are punished for using our own class skills over fighters guild skills. Something like Major mending when dadric summoning skill is slotted, or at least change the pet passives to be useful to some extent without pets.

Stam Sorc is actually in a far better place than Mag. Sorc. now.

You guys deserve the boost FINALLY, and if other tweaks would further improve your lot - then by all means ask for them.

I would appreciate it if you could also comment on the Mag. Sorcs. nerfs however, as this is the overall Sorc. thread, and Stam. Sorcs. have the benefit of their own exclusive thread to feedback on.

id rather not have to 'donate' skills to a niche build that contridicts the purpose of a sorcerer, who is a master of magic. Mag sorc should be better, in most respects, to stam sorc. you guys want a buff? you should be calling for duel scaling, like the skills scale off your highest stat.

I'd rather not read another one of this ignorant post from someone who has no idea what an Elder Scrolls Sorcerer is. You should go do some research before you dismiss my class that is just a lore friendly as yours. Additionally, don't tell me what buffs I should be asking for if you've never played my class, dual scaling is just a terrible idea.

Oblivion Sorcerer

Morrowind Sorcerer

Have you even read those links you sent? I do agree that stamina sorcerers are something in the Elder Scroll's world, but as the game currently is set up, it is not at all like the Lore. First of all, stamina sorcerers in ESO are forced into medium armor, which they really didn't use that much on the other ES games. That affects how well sorcerers can shield them selves and absorb magika which is one of the class hugest features in the previous games. Also, because you are using medium armor your magika pool, which should be the largest in the game according to all Lore, will be shot... Because otherwise you will have no damage behind your abilities.

ESO can't conform perfectly to the other ES games because it is MMO. It needs a different sort of balancing and I am sorry... MMO wise, sorcerers are primarily magic casters. Just like Nightblades are assassins and thus the class to go for stamina builds, just templars are supposed to the best healers and DK the best tanks. I understand wanting stamina sorcerers to be more viable, but doing so at the expense of the class losing its magika orientation is idiotic at best. For a long time sorcerers have had the worst DPS in general and near to no utility and this patch is only making things worse, at least for Magika sorcerers.

cpuScientist

Kas wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

Kas wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

Honestly speaking, what does a magick Sorc have over any of the other classes in PvP now? With everyone having our ward what do we have that puts us over ANYONE of the other classes? Frags? DAEDRIC prey? Nothing we legitimately have nothing that would gives us an edge. There really is absolutely no reason to play this class over any other class. We have the least amount of damage and the least survivability. I honestly would like to know WHAT do we have. NOTHING!

Magicka Sorcs now join stamina Sorcs as the crappiest class, we are the worst magicka and stamina class now. Not just the duration killing but add to it the fact that all those other classes with their mitigation now have our shields.

The best ranged burst in the game (including a ranged wrecking blow that can be insta cast), the highest possible shield values, a 10k a click ultimate, a 3rd utility bar- and most importantly- one of the all around best skills in the game for offense, defense, and mobility in streak.

It honestly sounds like you don't even know the class or its strengths too well.

Our big burst was inevitable with daedric prey and Dawnbreaker. 2 of those are dead for us now. Range barely means anything in PvP, people just gap close in so range means nothing really. Our frags are nice if RNG decides to bless us. Frags are nice, nothing to give up all the skills that the other classes have. OL is nice, but now that is all we have. The OL sorc is the only viable one yaaaay....

Now NB stealth high high burst heal through damage - and shields
DK major mitigation dots and cc's up the wazoo reflect heal through damage - and shields
Templars mitigation hardest hitting range skill best execute heal through damage super heal - and shields

In other words all the other classes still have all of their strengths and mitigation techniques staying the same, and now have the sorcs only mitigation technique added to them.

I have played every class I know the good and the bad. I know the damage outputs of them all at endgame. No need to get rude. I am not some amazing player, but if you cannot see that everyone having the one thing sorcs had to mitigate on top of their usual ways then I think you are just trolling.

the new burst is curse with meteor whereas you streak through the enemy directly after meteor cast so that he's busy breaking and wont just block it. mid air you turn the camera and throw frags if they proc. if they don't, stand in mines, keep pressure and wait for next meteor. don't try to blow up 2+ at once anymore, play your combo as single target. I think it's still a very decent build to solo play in PvP (both truely solo and solo swinning along your faction's zerg). I don't think we'll see sorcs successfully duel very good stam players anytime soon, except for pet builds maybe (which are such a pain to use the larger the scale of the battle)

That said, i fully agree that sorc isn't too great now. Personally, I think they will join templars in typical zerg classes. Negate really is a great ulti for larger scale now. Combinations with frostwall+winterborn+skoria are possible, too.

Derra wrote: »

PvE wise i´m just at a loss for words for the state of the class (vMSA being the main focus here). The changes are so absolutely disconnected from my personal experience with the class compared to other classes (magplar, magblade and stamblade).

Meanwhile when you look at the NB class topic people complain after power extration being changed to desease that the skill needs something extra to be worth slotting over steelnado. wtf (and i´m betting money that will get adressed before anything gets changed for sorcs again).

that thread also struck me as forums going batshit crazy.

I just have to disagree about the Templar part of your post. If you build them to 1vX they are some of the BEST. Those in the zergs in light armor die because they are running around inight armor thinking they are Sorcs with shields. Templar is Strong in PvP just got stronger and are actually fun, when the closer isn't bugged lol...

But back to Sorcs, my pet build is DEAD in the water. I always felt that pets should.have been in the mages guild tree though. But pet build is DEAD, there is no point to be a Sorc, EVERYTHING EVERY NICHE you can build for is done BETTER on another class. And I literally mean EVERY NICHE ROLE is done BETTER on other classes. Well accept one, Sorcs are now the BEST free walking AP by a LONGSHOT....

w.r.t templars vs sorc:
templars can fight a predetermined 1vX well but they cannot pick their fights. on my sorc i can still play in the evening on an off-campaign and have solo fun against 25+ randoms raiding a keep. i show outside, poke with force pulse and blink around the corner looking if i can get 1-3 to follow. if there are more, i blink further, if there are none, i repeat the poking.

this is exactly the niche (find the fights you like, dodge others) that sorc have always excelled at and still have for them after the patch. magplar is absolutely unplayable when you're truely solo and only a single group of enemy randoms roams around.

DB will add negate-bots in lagtrain zergs to their repertoire.

other than that, I fully agree that it's not a great time for sorcs (in very small part due to sheild nerfs, in much larger part due to the buffs for archtypes/playstyles that are incredibly good at dodging projectiles, i.e. shuffle + enough reg for rolling a lot. they already were fairly hard to fight and now become a nightmare)[/quote]

Yet still as I pointed out every niche a Sorc fills, another class does it bstter in this case if that is what you like a NB does it much BETTER. Besides zookeeper every other class does anything we do better sometimes waaaay better.

cpuScientist

potirondb16_ESO wrote: »

Glantir wrote: »

They could change one passive into something that give you a bonus for every toggle skill in your bar e.g. for every toggle skill in your skillbar you gain additional 1%/2% on all max stats.

Only making a skill not toggle change nothing, I still have Inner Light on both bars for the crit buff ^^

I'm not sure that would fix all the issue, I really believe the toggle we are given to use is the issue, not how toggle works. Bound Armor should be design for Tank and Stamina while pet on the other hand should grant 8% more magika, that way if you are running a stam pet build you get a nice bonus to your magika in order to let you do more shielding and also more conversion. And you can also choose if you want more health or more stam coming from your bound armor.

Then as a magika you can choose which pet you want and that would become your toggle. As a Tank you don't have much toggle to work around and as a stam build well it wouldn't change much your build and since the stamina bonus is nicer then the magika one (+40% heavy Attack instead of minor spell protection). I will even go further make the twillight give 8% more magika while the Clanfear give 8% more stamina, and let the bound armor as told earlier.

Also that way magika build get one more slot open for dps ability/utility because while our armor was not giving us anything to work with except ressource (which is nice but ... still ask for a lot of bar space while other class can usually get a more deverse build).

And I kind of believe that even if pet are now becoming relevant at all time for Sorc (or at least to slot one) we can actually get more variety from our build with that then with bound armor. Also it gives us an option either for a utility pet or a domage pet for both stamina and magika.

And level the Plainfield for those who want a pet build with the possibility of 8% to all type of ressource.

If you like it please just type the insightfull

I agree with this so so so much. I would still rather legs be non toggles and be there until death.

Buy implement it this way atleast we will not have to slot a skill that does NOTHING at all just sits there giving magicka, this really should just be a passive that increases max Stam and magicka. I mean we are wasting 3 slots on what is essentially a NB passive LOL do you understand how absurd that is?

ZOS_DaryaK

We've removed a couple of posts referencing previous moderator actions. Please remember that discussing moderation is against our forum rules as it does not help further the discussion.

Grao

...

Emma_Overload

Tyrannitar wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Tyrannitar wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

In PvP, the new Surge is a big buff, in my opinion. We were NEVER getting big heals off of targets that stacked Impenetrable (aka the good players), and we weren't getting any heals off DOT attacks like Velocious Curse or Rapid Strikes.

Yeah, maybe once in a blue moon I might get an 8K surge heal off of some sorry scrub I hit with an Overload light attack, but those types of heals never seem to come when you need them. I would much rather work with the more reliable, but reduced heal from the new Surge.

Most likely battlespirit not working atm is a bug.

Surge no longer "double dips" into battlespirit. It´s a fixed flat value that can also crit.

Why do i think that´s a bug? Because i can´t imagine 5k+ critical critsurge heals being working as intended for stamina sorcerers. That´s insane selfhealing.

But a confirmation of this being intended or not would be nice.

Edit: Also @Wrobel adjusting the value on a theoretically good skill to make it good is something that works. However the problem with dark exchange is not that it doesn´t do enough. The design of the skill is what keeps it from getting used.
You´d have to put it somewhere to 15k heal (in pvp) for me to ever consider slotting it. Even then i´d not be sure.

I'm loling at 5k self heals being labelled as "inSANe SELfHEalS"

That's on a 1 second cooldown.... That's really not that great compared to how it is on live right now.


Do you run a stam sorc?

A 5k selfheal in pvp. My post was strictly on pvp.

Also every dot triggering it makes it almost as reliable as funnel as long as something is doing dmg. 3k+ passive hps in pvp is pretty damn good.

Yeah that's what I keep trying to tell people. I don't think a lot of Sorcs really know what their sustained HPS has been, they just notice those occasional big Surge heals when the number crawls up their screen. I definitely do look at HPS, and I can attest that in PvP, it is really low... like 1K HPS if you are lucky. In PvE it's much migher, but then we have huge Wards in PvE, anyway.

My rotation consists of a lot of Crushing Shock, Velocious Curse and Light Attacks with only occasional procced Frags. Except for the Frags, none of these produce big Surge heals, and Curse doesn't proc Surge at all on Live. I expect the new Surge will double my HPS in PvP, maybe even triple it if I adjust my CP passives to maximize heals.

.... Anyone with FTC and sustained dps over 26k knows that this surge nerf gives a significant (around 13k) drop in hps.

Where are all these Sorcs with "sustained dps over 26k"? Are you talking about spamming a bunch of Overload light attacks? Because that doesn't work in PvP, players will dodge or reflect 80% of your Overloads.

Ajax_22

Grao wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

kmatt wrote: »

STAM MORPH OF OVERLOAD,

Failing that change how Ultimats work so if its scaling off Stam it does physical damage and if its scaling off magic do magic damage for all class skills, this means that the champion point system works for your build.

Stam sorc needs some love still although hurricane is some nice improvement to its damage it has lost its utility of movement speed which was a big reason to use.

Again ill ask for the "Stone Shard" morph that is the Stam version of the morph we already have that adds a little AoE.

Last thing to say, make the passives useful as a stam sorc half of them are useless and no point taking & now with fighters guild changes we are punished for using our own class skills over fighters guild skills. Something like Major mending when dadric summoning skill is slotted, or at least change the pet passives to be useful to some extent without pets.

Stam Sorc is actually in a far better place than Mag. Sorc. now.

You guys deserve the boost FINALLY, and if other tweaks would further improve your lot - then by all means ask for them.

I would appreciate it if you could also comment on the Mag. Sorcs. nerfs however, as this is the overall Sorc. thread, and Stam. Sorcs. have the benefit of their own exclusive thread to feedback on.

id rather not have to 'donate' skills to a niche build that contridicts the purpose of a sorcerer, who is a master of magic. Mag sorc should be better, in most respects, to stam sorc. you guys want a buff? you should be calling for duel scaling, like the skills scale off your highest stat.

I'd rather not read another one of this ignorant post from someone who has no idea what an Elder Scrolls Sorcerer is. You should go do some research before you dismiss my class that is just a lore friendly as yours. Additionally, don't tell me what buffs I should be asking for if you've never played my class, dual scaling is just a terrible idea.

Oblivion Sorcerer

Morrowind Sorcerer

Have you even read those links you sent? I do agree that stamina sorcerers are something in the Elder Scroll's world, but as the game currently is set up, it is not at all like the Lore. First of all, stamina sorcerers in ESO are forced into medium armor, which they really didn't use that much on the other ES games. That affects how well sorcerers can shield them selves and absorb magika which is one of the class hugest features in the previous games. Also, because you are using medium armor your magika pool, which should be the largest in the game according to all Lore, will be shot... Because otherwise you will have no damage behind your abilities.

ESO can't conform perfectly to the other ES games because it is MMO. It needs a different sort of balancing and I am sorry... MMO wise, sorcerers are primarily magic casters. Just like Nightblades are assassins and thus the class to go for stamina builds, just templars are supposed to the best healers and DK the best tanks. I understand wanting stamina sorcerers to be more viable, but doing so at the expense of the class losing its magika orientation is idiotic at best. For a long time sorcerers have had the worst DPS in general and near to no utility and this patch is only making things worse, at least for Magika sorcerers.

You are absolutely correct. This is an MMO, and because it's an MMO every single class needs to be equally viable. This includes Stam Sorcs. Furthermore, why are we the only class that has to put up with this amount of stupidity? I don't ever see Magic Templars telling Stam Templars that they have no right to exist.