Official Feedback Thread for Sorcerers

Daymond

Glantir wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

A 5k selfheal in pvp. My post was strictly on pvp.

Also every dot triggering it makes it almost as reliable as funnel as long as something is doing dmg. 3k+ passive hps in pvp is pretty damn good.

But you need to crit, and you cant crit on shields, everyone will have a shield after DB....

Crit surge works on shields

Derra

Daymond wrote: »

Glantir wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

A 5k selfheal in pvp. My post was strictly on pvp.

Also every dot triggering it makes it almost as reliable as funnel as long as something is doing dmg. 3k+ passive hps in pvp is pretty damn good.

But you need to crit, and you cant crit on shields, everyone will have a shield after DB....

Crit surge works on shields

This.

They enables surge proccs on shields (they are abysmal currently) but with a fixed value this is no longer an issue. You can enjoy your healing in pvp without downside really.

byrom101b16_ESO

2.4.2 is just awful for PvE-centric magicka Sorcs.

Competitive vMA is going to be a thing out of reach now for most who cannot do it in their sleep. The resource drain on M Sorcs. will be too high by far.

What Wroble et al seem to have missed, or don't care about is that M Sorcs have to sacrifice everything - health, stamina, regen and armour to get a sustained PvE dps that is 4th out of 4 - but at least close enough not to be embarrassing.

There is simply no more space to adapt to these changes. Nerf after nerf after nerf throughout the course of this game's development have pushed us into an ever decreasing corner, with fewer and fewer viable top-end builds.

These changes severely undermine just about the only one left to us.

I see the 10-20% of comments of thread stating this or that change is fine or even good for M Sorcs, but they all concentrate on either the numbers they see, or the singular skills - they take no account of the relevant realities of shorter durations, cast times, increased resource drain, healing cooldowns, the need for crits (obviating the sustain builds necessary to counter some of the damage done by all of this...) and the negative synergies that will in combination hollow Sorcerer's out. Some buffs to skills which have a cast time and are therefore useless in PvP are conveniently ignored or confused with something useful...

But still myopic low-skill PvP'ers endlessly troll on about Sorcerer burst (actually 2nd best out of only 4 classes) and Sorcerer Shields - which of course will now be 'Everyone's Shields'.

The vast majority of comments and feedback about Shields and Mag. Sorc. changes are overwhelmingly negative. Some are general comments - some show clearly what the problems are - and they are significant.

The changes to the grindiness of ESO and lack of a good MMO to move to had JUST managed to attract me back to the game... seems I'll be off again.

I just cannot understand why ZOS have such flawed understanding of the game THEY coded.

It defies logic every bit as much as the Block changes in the CP trees...

bloodenragedb14_ESO

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

I see the 10-20% of comments of thread stating this or that change is fine or even good for M Sorcs,

thats being generous in my opinion

cpuScientist

@Wrobel

After testing on the PTS, this critsurge is such a NERF. And dark conversion is simply bad you can double the heal.again and it's still bad. Just give us a spammable in that tree in its place and let blood magic handle the rest. You already have a black bolt skill in game that some NPCs fire off, there that goes nice in our black magic skill tree. And just kill bound armor already, make it give 8% more health and change the pet 8%health to magic. Now we have a good reason to alot your weak pets.

And for the love of all make pets non toggles. Let them be summoned till they die and allow us to put the skills on the bar we want instead.

Make twilight tormentor an actual choice, have it be like the inferno skill, sending off a single target ability every 2 seconds like the AOE pet that either roots on every hit or stuns on last hit. Options, pets are not good enough to be on every one of our limited bars. This would instead allow us to have the pets and only toggle we will now NEED is inner light.

Just fix the Sorc. I am not even asking for shield duration anymore.

bloodenragedb14_ESO

cpuScientist wrote: »

@Wrobel

After testing on the PTS, this critsurge is such a NERF. And dark conversion is simply bad you can double the heal.again and it's still bad. Just give us a spammable in that tree in its place and let blood magic handle the rest. You already have a black bolt skill in game that some NPCs fire off, there that goes nice in our black magic skill tree. And just kill bound armor already, make it give 8% more health and change the pet 8%health to magic. Now we have a good reason to alot your weak pets.

And for the love of all make pets non toggles. Let them be summoned till they die and allow us to put the skills on the bar we want instead.

Make twilight tormentor an actual choice, have it be like the inferno skill, sending off a single target ability every 2 seconds like the AOE pet that either roots on every hit or stuns on last hit. Options, pets are not good enough to be on every one of our limited bars. This would instead allow us to have the pets and only toggle we will now NEED is inner light.

Just fix the Sorc. I am not even asking for shield duration anymore.

if pets were non toggles id tolerate the shield duration nerf, read tolerate, we shouldnt have to make a tradeoff with how bad the class is getting nerfed

cpuScientist

I mean goodness templars and nightblade get to CHOOSE if they wanna use a ranges spammable it a melee spammable. DK' get one, but whooo does it hit HARD. (I have each at vr16.) And every other class has a targeted dot and a ground dot, Sorcs only got a LL it's strong but small. And no dot that we can throw on anyone, I would love to run curse but with all the toggles I have ZERO room to be creative honeslty.

Make pets non toggles. Let them be summoned till they die and allow us to put the skills on the bar we want instead.

Make bound armor give 8% more health and change the pet 8%health to magic. Now we have a good reason to slot those weak pets. and give the pets more health and resistances.they are extremely stupid and love to stand in red...

Derra

PvE wise i´m just at a loss for words for the state of the class (vMSA being the main focus here). The changes are so absolutely disconnected from my personal experience with the class compared to other classes (magplar, magblade and stamblade).

Meanwhile when you look at the NB class topic people complain after power extration being changed to desease that the skill needs something extra to be worth slotting over steelnado. wtf (and i´m betting money that will get adressed before anything gets changed for sorcs again).

Darlon

Derra wrote: »

PvE wise i´m just at a loss for words for the state of the class (vMSA being the main focus here). The changes are so absolutely disconnected from my personal experience with the class compared to other classes (magplar, magblade and stamblade).

Meanwhile when you look at the NB class topic people complain after power extration being changed to desease that the skill needs something extra to be worth slotting over steelnado. wtf (and i´m betting money that will get adressed before anything gets changed for sorcs again).

This basically @ZOS_GinaBruno

heyewe

This thread has been amazing and frankly, a bit discouraging to read. I'm on console, so I pour through the feedback you all share as you test on the PTS...and try to learn until we receive it.. So, thank you to everyone who has contributed insight. I learn from many of your posts every day!

I lovelovelove my Sorc, always have. And since day one...have been a pretty balanced PVP/PVE player. I'm not a pro/elite player but darn it, this girl is willing to learn and change whatever I can to do my best!!..andddddd I'm nervous about these changes. I'm not a Zerg player or a shield stacker, never have been...but If I am not invited to do VMoL because I'm not able to sustain or mitigate damage while bringing good damage numbers or able to complete VMalestrom because I was too late to the party to run it...I will be bummed. I already get 2-3 second snare followed by a 1-2 stun/sap/proxy/vicious death every death recap when I engage in PVP by the sea of NB's in NA/Xbone.

I'm sure I'll be 'okay'..L2P and all that...but darn it...I'm discouraged that my two main characters ( v16 Sorc/Templar) read like they're being transformed into bait. Or worse, a trophy item that I can sit on my shelf in my future house. *sad*

I hope that the good folks in development look closer before it hits live and reconsiders some of the gouges to both the Templar and Sorc classes.

FearlessOne_2014

Well with the

ForsakenSin wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

I agree with the above. Cancelled too. I'm for change, but I didn't sign up for street-fighter online button mashing.

Make the shields critable. Make them non-stackable. Whatever, neither of those changes would affect PVE, because you don't DO those in PVE.

Next patch learn the 10 hit combos! but for now learn ..

HADOKEN!!!!!!!!!!!

6sec Hardened Ward + Z-Motion + Punch / Forward, Down, Forward + Punch + Hardened Ward


After reading all of the posts honestly what else can be said ...

1) PVP got more screwed up... wait till you try fighting NB , temps or DK , with new shields....
2) R.I.P my pets , lack of health and shield now they are useless even more then before
3) PVE players got screwed over PVP Whingers ( as apparently that is all that everybody dose PVP right?....)

i honestly love this game and playing every night for 4 hr i got my friends to buy xbox one just so we can all play this game and as most of them are mages back to square one...

We shall see what happens hopefully the changes will not pass and there will be some adjustment but the way things are .. not looking good.

I for one will not give up and will try to salvage whats left of nerferd mage however if that is not possible well then Stamblade or Magtemp.


and please try to refrain from saying "L2P , real mages can use 6 sec shields ect ect " good for you, you are top player im sure 90% of players just like to enjoy the game to PVE and finish dungeons with friends and with guilds socialize and have fun and as per other peoples posts there are many things missing from mages to begin with, and now with nerf its really bad...

Not going to lie I used to main Sorc since the 2014 release even main it through the sorcerer dark ages. But these days even tho I love playing sorcerer in other RPGs and such I just don't feel like the sorcerer class in this is a actual sorcerer. I more so feel that the Templar should have been the actual sorcerer, and they should have just made current sorcerer into a Summoner that focus on pet/player synergy for damage and support. I think that the non sorcerer community of this game just want sorcs to be free kills because they are sword wielders.

I wish sorcerers in this game was the true glass cannons of magicka with a high risk high reward playstyle like Nightblade was supposed to been. But w/e one must adapt.

But ya if you like the mage archetype then I highly recommend switching to Magicka Templar so much more fun and versatile in pvp atm.

wookikiller95

This is all your Stam SORC Love?

cpuScientist

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Well with the

ForsakenSin wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

I agree with the above. Cancelled too. I'm for change, but I didn't sign up for street-fighter online button mashing.

Make the shields critable. Make them non-stackable. Whatever, neither of those changes would affect PVE, because you don't DO those in PVE.

Next patch learn the 10 hit combos! but for now learn ..

HADOKEN!!!!!!!!!!!

6sec Hardened Ward + Z-Motion + Punch / Forward, Down, Forward + Punch + Hardened Ward


After reading all of the posts honestly what else can be said ...

1) PVP got more screwed up... wait till you try fighting NB , temps or DK , with new shields....
2) R.I.P my pets , lack of health and shield now they are useless even more then before
3) PVE players got screwed over PVP Whingers ( as apparently that is all that everybody dose PVP right?....)

i honestly love this game and playing every night for 4 hr i got my friends to buy xbox one just so we can all play this game and as most of them are mages back to square one...

We shall see what happens hopefully the changes will not pass and there will be some adjustment but the way things are .. not looking good.

I for one will not give up and will try to salvage whats left of nerferd mage however if that is not possible well then Stamblade or Magtemp.


and please try to refrain from saying "L2P , real mages can use 6 sec shields ect ect " good for you, you are top player im sure 90% of players just like to enjoy the game to PVE and finish dungeons with friends and with guilds socialize and have fun and as per other peoples posts there are many things missing from mages to begin with, and now with nerf its really bad...

Not going to lie I used to main Sorc since the 2014 release even main it through the sorcerer dark ages. But these days even tho I love playing sorcerer in other RPGs and such I just don't feel like the sorcerer class in this is a actual sorcerer. I more so feel that the Templar should have been the actual sorcerer, and they should have just made current sorcerer into a Summoner that focus on pet/player synergy for damage and support. I think that the non sorcerer community of this game just want sorcs to be free kills because they are sword wielders.

I wish sorcerers in this game was the true glass cannons of magicka with a high risk high reward playstyle like Nightblade was supposed to been. But w/e one must adapt.

But ya if you like the mage archetype then I highly recommend switching to Magicka Templar so much more fun and versatile in pvp atm.

@Wrobel
I was using my Templar using dark flare and flame wheel with vampires bane and blazing spear and the occasional meteor, so.etimes getting fancy with soul trap and then finiahing with radiant. While sitting in my circle feeling like a real caster, dropping real pure ranged DPS this is in pve obviously. Felt like real pure ranged DPS caster dropping major DPS at range. And off healing my teammates giving them buffs and returning Stam.

What the sirc was supposed to be LOL. A caster high risk high risk high reward if you could master it, instead I have to triple slot on my bars and have effectively no room to throw dots or heals, to be in any way creative just keep all your toggles and wait for a frag. Until OL is up and then left click left click left click left click. We are high risk low reward. Lowest of the magicka dps and lower than stamdk amd probably now stam NB. Yaaay so fun whoohooo! (Sarcasm it's actually not fun or rewarding at ALL)

And then you nerf us again...

RoxyPhoenix

Its pointless, the class has been beaten to death. Maybe one or two exceptionally good players can make it kinda work, maybe some elites can figure out how to be on par with others, maybe.. all I know, is that for me and for majority of sorc devoted players, everything that we loved about the class is mostly gone.

Everyone can Learn 2 Play but no one can Learn 2 Have Fun.

Metafae

I hate pets.

Remove the entire Daedric Summoning skill line and start from scratch.

None of that AI nonsense this time please.

Metafae

Replace it with Snow Storm skill line or something

It goes with the theme of storm calling.

It would be neat to have Ice magic.

Lucky28

@Rylana

in Continuation to the other thread.

I said can do everything or a variant of. if you want to act cleaver at least be cleaver.

1. Magblades have better mobility/escape than sorcs in the current stage. (variant of)

3. Encase is not that great. bombard is better. at any rate i've always hated that meta and won't use that ***

4. Endless is one of the most unreliable Executes in the game. i like the ability, but doesn't always proc when it should and the splash damage is trash even in PvE.

5. magblades have more options which bring them on par with an overload sorc in terms of DPS. also with passive heals that are intertwined with their DPS. they have high survivability while maintaining high DPS.

7. lets be real here. the magblades Ult generation beats the sorcs reduced ult cost into the *** ground. i don't know why You and @KenaPKK started touting that all the sudden (that desperate?) it's never been the best it's good for overload and that's about it. outside of overload it doesn't beat increased Ult generation.

8. again more options in terms of DPS and with siphoning attacks can maintain their DPS longer than a sorc. who has the higher spell power doesn't matter.

I don't really care about Negate. i was a solo player. for group play it's awesome and the changes are great, for solo play not so great and the changes don't really matter. Doesn't make up for the loss of Flawless in terms of potential damage at least not for a solo player.

EDIT: now that i think about it. you always play in a group don't you?. if so, i can understand why you don't think these changes will affect you (cause they probably won't) for solo players the sorc is in a very very bad position.

Kas

cpuScientist wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

Honestly speaking, what does a magick Sorc have over any of the other classes in PvP now? With everyone having our ward what do we have that puts us over ANYONE of the other classes? Frags? DAEDRIC prey? Nothing we legitimately have nothing that would gives us an edge. There really is absolutely no reason to play this class over any other class. We have the least amount of damage and the least survivability. I honestly would like to know WHAT do we have. NOTHING!

Magicka Sorcs now join stamina Sorcs as the crappiest class, we are the worst magicka and stamina class now. Not just the duration killing but add to it the fact that all those other classes with their mitigation now have our shields.

The best ranged burst in the game (including a ranged wrecking blow that can be insta cast), the highest possible shield values, a 10k a click ultimate, a 3rd utility bar- and most importantly- one of the all around best skills in the game for offense, defense, and mobility in streak.

It honestly sounds like you don't even know the class or its strengths too well.

Our big burst was inevitable with daedric prey and Dawnbreaker. 2 of those are dead for us now. Range barely means anything in PvP, people just gap close in so range means nothing really. Our frags are nice if RNG decides to bless us. Frags are nice, nothing to give up all the skills that the other classes have. OL is nice, but now that is all we have. The OL sorc is the only viable one yaaaay....

Now NB stealth high high burst heal through damage - and shields
DK major mitigation dots and cc's up the wazoo reflect heal through damage - and shields
Templars mitigation hardest hitting range skill best execute heal through damage super heal - and shields

In other words all the other classes still have all of their strengths and mitigation techniques staying the same, and now have the sorcs only mitigation technique added to them.

I have played every class I know the good and the bad. I know the damage outputs of them all at endgame. No need to get rude. I am not some amazing player, but if you cannot see that everyone having the one thing sorcs had to mitigate on top of their usual ways then I think you are just trolling.

the new burst is curse with meteor whereas you streak through the enemy directly after meteor cast so that he's busy breaking and wont just block it. mid air you turn the camera and throw frags if they proc. if they don't, stand in mines, keep pressure and wait for next meteor. don't try to blow up 2+ at once anymore, play your combo as single target. I think it's still a very decent build to solo play in PvP (both truely solo and solo swinning along your faction's zerg). I don't think we'll see sorcs successfully duel very good stam players anytime soon, except for pet builds maybe (which are such a pain to use the larger the scale of the battle)

That said, i fully agree that sorc isn't too great now. Personally, I think they will join templars in typical zerg classes. Negate really is a great ulti for larger scale now. Combinations with frostwall+winterborn+skoria are possible, too.

Derra wrote: »

PvE wise i´m just at a loss for words for the state of the class (vMSA being the main focus here). The changes are so absolutely disconnected from my personal experience with the class compared to other classes (magplar, magblade and stamblade).

Meanwhile when you look at the NB class topic people complain after power extration being changed to desease that the skill needs something extra to be worth slotting over steelnado. wtf (and i´m betting money that will get adressed before anything gets changed for sorcs again).

that thread also struck me as forums going batshit crazy.

bloodenragedb14_ESO

Metafae wrote: »

I hate pets.

Remove the entire Daedric Summoning skill line and start from scratch.

None of that AI nonsense this time please.

no, you speak only for yourself, i love the summoning skilline, i just wish it was made more viable for other/any content, and the pieces to do it are all there, problem is they are far to focused on nerfing EVERYTHING to care about buffing anything

susmitds

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

2.4.2 is just awful for PvE-centric magicka Sorcs.

Competitive vMA is going to be a thing out of reach now for most who cannot do it in their sleep. The resource drain on M Sorcs. will be too high by far.

What Wroble et al seem to have missed, or don't care about is that M Sorcs have to sacrifice everything - health, stamina, regen and armour to get a sustained PvE dps that is 4th out of 4 - but at least close enough not to be embarrassing.

There is simply no more space to adapt to these changes. Nerf after nerf after nerf throughout the course of this game's development have pushed us into an ever decreasing corner, with fewer and fewer viable top-end builds.

These changes severely undermine just about the only one left to us.

I see the 10-20% of comments of thread stating this or that change is fine or even good for M Sorcs, but they all concentrate on either the numbers they see, or the singular skills - they take no account of the relevant realities of shorter durations, cast times, increased resource drain, healing cooldowns, the need for crits (obviating the sustain builds necessary to counter some of the damage done by all of this...) and the negative synergies that will in combination hollow Sorcerer's out. Some buffs to skills which have a cast time and are therefore useless in PvP are conveniently ignored or confused with something useful...

But still myopic low-skill PvP'ers endlessly troll on about Sorcerer burst (actually 2nd best out of only 4 classes) and Sorcerer Shields - which of course will now be 'Everyone's Shields'.

The vast majority of comments and feedback about Shields and Mag. Sorc. changes are overwhelmingly negative. Some are general comments - some show clearly what the problems are - and they are significant.

The changes to the grindiness of ESO and lack of a good MMO to move to had JUST managed to attract me back to the game... seems I'll be off again.

I just cannot understand why ZOS have such flawed understanding of the game THEY coded.

It defies logic every bit as much as the Block changes in the CP trees...

I understand how vMA will become for mag Sorcerers. Pretty much the same way, all stamina classes , especially Stamblades and Stamsorcs, found it impossible to compete in vMA due to lack of any kind of sustained DPS. StamDKs were the only stamina classes who had it relatively easy. I guess sorcerers will be prone to the same issue.

Joy_Division

susmitds wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

TheHsN wrote: »

@Wrobel
thanks with magicka an sorc nerf to you that u are destroying game for me and many like you.
do you aware in pts stamina nb's one shot to heavy armor tanks.

and why in whole patch there isnt anything for magicka and always nerfs to magicka specially sorcerer....(i have 2 sorcs)
why i SUB or why i buy this DLC there is only bad things for my Main characters...
i really dont understand why you are doing this what is the plan behind this ..ıs this just to show CUZ YOU CAN!


pls dont destroy our fun and pleasure with magicka build in this patch and give sorc back what u took...

dont nerf shield like this. atleast they should ne 10-12 secs
dont nerf SURGE

in pve without ultimade(overload) already there isnt any dps with sorc...
and force pulse cost twice more than swallow soul
i dont undertstan how u cant see this...

Just bring sorc back again in next patch for us

OR u just make me and many like me to quit playing...already that DLC was the last thing to make me wait to see what is going on...

and it is only nerfs and nothing to us...thats giving me a one choise to leave game till the next DLC or patch that u are going to do something for us...

TNX anyway...i hope u consider this things.

Translation:

stop changing skills

Translation:

Leave mag sorcs OP

Translation:

It's OK to nerf other classes just not mine.

Metafae

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

i just wish it was made more viable for other/any content

This is exactly why I hate them. They're more annoying than they are useful.

If they were just untargetable Orbs that you summoned and floated around you like magelight, auto-casting their light attacks and when you pressed the button they did their extra ability, they would be amazing.

To settle those that like the way they look, why not have them as mini versions of the pets that act like mage light.

byrom101b16_ESO

susmitds wrote: »

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

2.4.2 is just awful for PvE-centric magicka Sorcs.

Competitive vMA is going to be a thing out of reach now for most who cannot do it in their sleep. The resource drain on M Sorcs. will be too high by far.

What Wroble et al seem to have missed, or don't care about is that M Sorcs have to sacrifice everything - health, stamina, regen and armour to get a sustained PvE dps that is 4th out of 4 - but at least close enough not to be embarrassing.

There is simply no more space to adapt to these changes. Nerf after nerf after nerf throughout the course of this game's development have pushed us into an ever decreasing corner, with fewer and fewer viable top-end builds.

These changes severely undermine just about the only one left to us.

I see the 10-20% of comments of thread stating this or that change is fine or even good for M Sorcs, but they all concentrate on either the numbers they see, or the singular skills - they take no account of the relevant realities of shorter durations, cast times, increased resource drain, healing cooldowns, the need for crits (obviating the sustain builds necessary to counter some of the damage done by all of this...) and the negative synergies that will in combination hollow Sorcerer's out. Some buffs to skills which have a cast time and are therefore useless in PvP are conveniently ignored or confused with something useful...

But still myopic low-skill PvP'ers endlessly troll on about Sorcerer burst (actually 2nd best out of only 4 classes) and Sorcerer Shields - which of course will now be 'Everyone's Shields'.

The vast majority of comments and feedback about Shields and Mag. Sorc. changes are overwhelmingly negative. Some are general comments - some show clearly what the problems are - and they are significant.

The changes to the grindiness of ESO and lack of a good MMO to move to had JUST managed to attract me back to the game... seems I'll be off again.

I just cannot understand why ZOS have such flawed understanding of the game THEY coded.

It defies logic every bit as much as the Block changes in the CP trees...

I understand how vMA will become for mag Sorcerers. Pretty much the same way, all stamina classes , especially Stamblades and Stamsorcs, found it impossible to compete in vMA due to lack of any kind of sustained DPS. StamDKs were the only stamina classes who had it relatively easy. I guess sorcerers will be prone to the same issue.

Swapping which iteration of a class (magicka or stamina) is viable from one to the other is a ZOS thing.

Anyone else would fix the broken one and not break the one that's ok...

NBrookus

heyewe wrote: »

I'm sure I'll be 'okay'..L2P and all that...but darn it...I'm discouraged that my two main characters ( v16 Sorc/Templar) read like they're being transformed into bait. Or worse, a trophy item that I can sit on my shelf in my future house. *sad*

@heyewe Your templar is going to be fine. The stuff that didn't work still doesn't work, but Harness Magicka just got better overall. If they fix Thaumaturge/Jabs I'll be content. vMA is doable on a templar, plus so few people try it you are pretty much guaranteed weekly rewards.

And for MoL, if you are spec'ed as a healer (not at the same time as vMA runs!), templars are still the preferred healer class because they can help with resource management like nobody else.

cpuScientist

Kas wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

Honestly speaking, what does a magick Sorc have over any of the other classes in PvP now? With everyone having our ward what do we have that puts us over ANYONE of the other classes? Frags? DAEDRIC prey? Nothing we legitimately have nothing that would gives us an edge. There really is absolutely no reason to play this class over any other class. We have the least amount of damage and the least survivability. I honestly would like to know WHAT do we have. NOTHING!

Magicka Sorcs now join stamina Sorcs as the crappiest class, we are the worst magicka and stamina class now. Not just the duration killing but add to it the fact that all those other classes with their mitigation now have our shields.

The best ranged burst in the game (including a ranged wrecking blow that can be insta cast), the highest possible shield values, a 10k a click ultimate, a 3rd utility bar- and most importantly- one of the all around best skills in the game for offense, defense, and mobility in streak.

It honestly sounds like you don't even know the class or its strengths too well.

Our big burst was inevitable with daedric prey and Dawnbreaker. 2 of those are dead for us now. Range barely means anything in PvP, people just gap close in so range means nothing really. Our frags are nice if RNG decides to bless us. Frags are nice, nothing to give up all the skills that the other classes have. OL is nice, but now that is all we have. The OL sorc is the only viable one yaaaay....

Now NB stealth high high burst heal through damage - and shields
DK major mitigation dots and cc's up the wazoo reflect heal through damage - and shields
Templars mitigation hardest hitting range skill best execute heal through damage super heal - and shields

In other words all the other classes still have all of their strengths and mitigation techniques staying the same, and now have the sorcs only mitigation technique added to them.

I have played every class I know the good and the bad. I know the damage outputs of them all at endgame. No need to get rude. I am not some amazing player, but if you cannot see that everyone having the one thing sorcs had to mitigate on top of their usual ways then I think you are just trolling.

the new burst is curse with meteor whereas you streak through the enemy directly after meteor cast so that he's busy breaking and wont just block it. mid air you turn the camera and throw frags if they proc. if they don't, stand in mines, keep pressure and wait for next meteor. don't try to blow up 2+ at once anymore, play your combo as single target. I think it's still a very decent build to solo play in PvP (both truely solo and solo swinning along your faction's zerg). I don't think we'll see sorcs successfully duel very good stam players anytime soon, except for pet builds maybe (which are such a pain to use the larger the scale of the battle)

That said, i fully agree that sorc isn't too great now. Personally, I think they will join templars in typical zerg classes. Negate really is a great ulti for larger scale now. Combinations with frostwall+winterborn+skoria are possible, too.

Derra wrote: »

PvE wise i´m just at a loss for words for the state of the class (vMSA being the main focus here). The changes are so absolutely disconnected from my personal experience with the class compared to other classes (magplar, magblade and stamblade).

Meanwhile when you look at the NB class topic people complain after power extration being changed to desease that the skill needs something extra to be worth slotting over steelnado. wtf (and i´m betting money that will get adressed before anything gets changed for sorcs again).

that thread also struck me as forums going batshit crazy.

I just have to disagree about the Templar part of your post. If you build them to 1vX they are some of the BEST. Those in the zergs in light armor die because they are running around inight armor thinking they are Sorcs with shields. Templar is Strong in PvP just got stronger and are actually fun, when the closer isn't bugged lol...

But back to Sorcs, my pet build is DEAD in the water. I always felt that pets should.have been in the mages guild tree though. But pet build is DEAD, there is no point to be a Sorc, EVERYTHING EVERY NICHE you can build for is done BETTER on another class. And I literally mean EVERY NICHE ROLE is done BETTER on other classes. Well accept one, Sorcs are now the BEST free walking AP by a LONGSHOT....

cpuScientist

I remember walking through the sewers with one of my Sorc Pet Build guild mates and we were watching NB go into stealth at the very sight of our million pets following us the 1 or 2 that attacked us were HANDLED. We were not OP we just looked menacing (and he is a very well known dueler, so they are naturally afraid if him anyway lol) and people knew it would take a bit more strategy to take us out. Now everyone knows our Pets are most likely not gonna be shielded, they know they can just sneeze on them and they are dead. And if they are magicka based just turn on the pet killswitch proxydet....

Kas

cpuScientist wrote: »

Kas wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

Honestly speaking, what does a magick Sorc have over any of the other classes in PvP now? With everyone having our ward what do we have that puts us over ANYONE of the other classes? Frags? DAEDRIC prey? Nothing we legitimately have nothing that would gives us an edge. There really is absolutely no reason to play this class over any other class. We have the least amount of damage and the least survivability. I honestly would like to know WHAT do we have. NOTHING!

Magicka Sorcs now join stamina Sorcs as the crappiest class, we are the worst magicka and stamina class now. Not just the duration killing but add to it the fact that all those other classes with their mitigation now have our shields.

The best ranged burst in the game (including a ranged wrecking blow that can be insta cast), the highest possible shield values, a 10k a click ultimate, a 3rd utility bar- and most importantly- one of the all around best skills in the game for offense, defense, and mobility in streak.

It honestly sounds like you don't even know the class or its strengths too well.

Our big burst was inevitable with daedric prey and Dawnbreaker. 2 of those are dead for us now. Range barely means anything in PvP, people just gap close in so range means nothing really. Our frags are nice if RNG decides to bless us. Frags are nice, nothing to give up all the skills that the other classes have. OL is nice, but now that is all we have. The OL sorc is the only viable one yaaaay....

Now NB stealth high high burst heal through damage - and shields
DK major mitigation dots and cc's up the wazoo reflect heal through damage - and shields
Templars mitigation hardest hitting range skill best execute heal through damage super heal - and shields

In other words all the other classes still have all of their strengths and mitigation techniques staying the same, and now have the sorcs only mitigation technique added to them.

I have played every class I know the good and the bad. I know the damage outputs of them all at endgame. No need to get rude. I am not some amazing player, but if you cannot see that everyone having the one thing sorcs had to mitigate on top of their usual ways then I think you are just trolling.

the new burst is curse with meteor whereas you streak through the enemy directly after meteor cast so that he's busy breaking and wont just block it. mid air you turn the camera and throw frags if they proc. if they don't, stand in mines, keep pressure and wait for next meteor. don't try to blow up 2+ at once anymore, play your combo as single target. I think it's still a very decent build to solo play in PvP (both truely solo and solo swinning along your faction's zerg). I don't think we'll see sorcs successfully duel very good stam players anytime soon, except for pet builds maybe (which are such a pain to use the larger the scale of the battle)

That said, i fully agree that sorc isn't too great now. Personally, I think they will join templars in typical zerg classes. Negate really is a great ulti for larger scale now. Combinations with frostwall+winterborn+skoria are possible, too.

Derra wrote: »

PvE wise i´m just at a loss for words for the state of the class (vMSA being the main focus here). The changes are so absolutely disconnected from my personal experience with the class compared to other classes (magplar, magblade and stamblade).

Meanwhile when you look at the NB class topic people complain after power extration being changed to desease that the skill needs something extra to be worth slotting over steelnado. wtf (and i´m betting money that will get adressed before anything gets changed for sorcs again).

that thread also struck me as forums going batshit crazy.

I just have to disagree about the Templar part of your post. If you build them to 1vX they are some of the BEST. Those in the zergs in light armor die because they are running around inight armor thinking they are Sorcs with shields. Templar is Strong in PvP just got stronger and are actually fun, when the closer isn't bugged lol...

But back to Sorcs, my pet build is DEAD in the water. I always felt that pets should.have been in the mages guild tree though. But pet build is DEAD, there is no point to be a Sorc, EVERYTHING EVERY NICHE you can build for is done BETTER on another class. And I literally mean EVERY NICHE ROLE is done BETTER on other classes. Well accept one, Sorcs are now the BEST free walking AP by a LONGSHOT....

w.r.t templars vs sorc:
templars can fight a predetermined 1vX well but they cannot pick their fights. on my sorc i can still play in the evening on an off-campaign and have solo fun against 25+ randoms raiding a keep. i show outside, poke with force pulse and blink around the corner looking if i can get 1-3 to follow. if there are more, i blink further, if there are none, i repeat the poking.

this is exactly the niche (find the fights you like, dodge others) that sorc have always excelled at and still have for them after the patch. magplar is absolutely unplayable when you're truely solo and only a single group of enemy randoms roams around.

DB will add negate-bots in lagtrain zergs to their repertoire.

other than that, I fully agree that it's not a great time for sorcs (in very small part due to sheild nerfs, in much larger part due to the buffs for archtypes/playstyles that are incredibly good at dodging projectiles, i.e. shuffle + enough reg for rolling a lot. they already were fairly hard to fight and now become a nightmare)

Derra

Kas wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

Kas wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

Honestly speaking, what does a magick Sorc have over any of the other classes in PvP now? With everyone having our ward what do we have that puts us over ANYONE of the other classes? Frags? DAEDRIC prey? Nothing we legitimately have nothing that would gives us an edge. There really is absolutely no reason to play this class over any other class. We have the least amount of damage and the least survivability. I honestly would like to know WHAT do we have. NOTHING!

Magicka Sorcs now join stamina Sorcs as the crappiest class, we are the worst magicka and stamina class now. Not just the duration killing but add to it the fact that all those other classes with their mitigation now have our shields.

The best ranged burst in the game (including a ranged wrecking blow that can be insta cast), the highest possible shield values, a 10k a click ultimate, a 3rd utility bar- and most importantly- one of the all around best skills in the game for offense, defense, and mobility in streak.

It honestly sounds like you don't even know the class or its strengths too well.

Our big burst was inevitable with daedric prey and Dawnbreaker. 2 of those are dead for us now. Range barely means anything in PvP, people just gap close in so range means nothing really. Our frags are nice if RNG decides to bless us. Frags are nice, nothing to give up all the skills that the other classes have. OL is nice, but now that is all we have. The OL sorc is the only viable one yaaaay....

Now NB stealth high high burst heal through damage - and shields
DK major mitigation dots and cc's up the wazoo reflect heal through damage - and shields
Templars mitigation hardest hitting range skill best execute heal through damage super heal - and shields

In other words all the other classes still have all of their strengths and mitigation techniques staying the same, and now have the sorcs only mitigation technique added to them.

I have played every class I know the good and the bad. I know the damage outputs of them all at endgame. No need to get rude. I am not some amazing player, but if you cannot see that everyone having the one thing sorcs had to mitigate on top of their usual ways then I think you are just trolling.

the new burst is curse with meteor whereas you streak through the enemy directly after meteor cast so that he's busy breaking and wont just block it. mid air you turn the camera and throw frags if they proc. if they don't, stand in mines, keep pressure and wait for next meteor. don't try to blow up 2+ at once anymore, play your combo as single target. I think it's still a very decent build to solo play in PvP (both truely solo and solo swinning along your faction's zerg). I don't think we'll see sorcs successfully duel very good stam players anytime soon, except for pet builds maybe (which are such a pain to use the larger the scale of the battle)

That said, i fully agree that sorc isn't too great now. Personally, I think they will join templars in typical zerg classes. Negate really is a great ulti for larger scale now. Combinations with frostwall+winterborn+skoria are possible, too.

Derra wrote: »

PvE wise i´m just at a loss for words for the state of the class (vMSA being the main focus here). The changes are so absolutely disconnected from my personal experience with the class compared to other classes (magplar, magblade and stamblade).

Meanwhile when you look at the NB class topic people complain after power extration being changed to desease that the skill needs something extra to be worth slotting over steelnado. wtf (and i´m betting money that will get adressed before anything gets changed for sorcs again).

that thread also struck me as forums going batshit crazy.

I just have to disagree about the Templar part of your post. If you build them to 1vX they are some of the BEST. Those in the zergs in light armor die because they are running around inight armor thinking they are Sorcs with shields. Templar is Strong in PvP just got stronger and are actually fun, when the closer isn't bugged lol...

But back to Sorcs, my pet build is DEAD in the water. I always felt that pets should.have been in the mages guild tree though. But pet build is DEAD, there is no point to be a Sorc, EVERYTHING EVERY NICHE you can build for is done BETTER on another class. And I literally mean EVERY NICHE ROLE is done BETTER on other classes. Well accept one, Sorcs are now the BEST free walking AP by a LONGSHOT....

w.r.t templars vs sorc:
templars can fight a predetermined 1vX well but they cannot pick their fights. on my sorc i can still play in the evening on an off-campaign and have solo fun against 25+ randoms raiding a keep. i show outside, poke with force pulse and blink around the corner looking if i can get 1-3 to follow. if there are more, i blink further, if there are none, i repeat the poking.

this is exactly the niche (find the fights you like, dodge others) that sorc have always excelled at and still have for them after the patch. magplar is absolutely unplayable when you're truely solo and only a single group of enemy randoms roams around.

DB will add negate-bots in lagtrain zergs to their repertoire.

other than that, I fully agree that it's not a great time for sorcs (in very small part due to sheild nerfs, in much larger part due to the buffs for archtypes/playstyles that are incredibly good at dodging projectiles, i.e. shuffle + enough reg for rolling a lot. they already were fairly hard to fight and now become a nightmare)

NB does this just aswell with more stopping power than a sorc though.
Trolling is better on sorc but actually killing stuff works better on NB imo.

Tyrannitar

cpuScientist wrote: »

@Wrobel

After testing on the PTS, this critsurge is such a NERF. And dark conversion is simply bad you can double the heal.again and it's still bad. Just give us a spammable in that tree in its place and let blood magic handle the rest. You already have a black bolt skill in game that some NPCs fire off, there that goes nice in our black magic skill tree. And just kill bound armor already, make it give 8% more health and change the pet 8%health to magic. Now we have a good reason to alot your weak pets.

And for the love of all make pets non toggles. Let them be summoned till they die and allow us to put the skills on the bar we want instead.

Make twilight tormentor an actual choice, have it be like the inferno skill, sending off a single target ability every 2 seconds like the AOE pet that either roots on every hit or stuns on last hit. Options, pets are not good enough to be on every one of our limited bars. This would instead allow us to have the pets and only toggle we will now NEED is inner light.

Just fix the Sorc. I am not even asking for shield duration anymore.

I felt like I was alone screaming that this surge update was a joke. PLAY THE PTS, we got NERFED. Not BUFFED.

Please please please don't put this into live @Wrobel

Derra

Tyrannitar wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

@Wrobel

After testing on the PTS, this critsurge is such a NERF. And dark conversion is simply bad you can double the heal.again and it's still bad. Just give us a spammable in that tree in its place and let blood magic handle the rest. You already have a black bolt skill in game that some NPCs fire off, there that goes nice in our black magic skill tree. And just kill bound armor already, make it give 8% more health and change the pet 8%health to magic. Now we have a good reason to alot your weak pets.

And for the love of all make pets non toggles. Let them be summoned till they die and allow us to put the skills on the bar we want instead.

Make twilight tormentor an actual choice, have it be like the inferno skill, sending off a single target ability every 2 seconds like the AOE pet that either roots on every hit or stuns on last hit. Options, pets are not good enough to be on every one of our limited bars. This would instead allow us to have the pets and only toggle we will now NEED is inner light.

Just fix the Sorc. I am not even asking for shield duration anymore.

I felt like I was alone screaming that this surge update was a joke. PLAY THE PTS, we got NERFED. Not BUFFED.

Please please please don't put this into live @Wrobel

The only occasion where it´s a buff is pvp stamsorc (yay unicorns got buffed) - where it´s most likely a bug bc battlespirit does not affect surge heals atm.