Official Feedback Thread for Sorcerers

bloodenragedb14_ESO

@Ajax_22

i think you got the wrong guy in that post, i never said any of that

Edit: thx for the fix, i was like "have i gone crazy and developed a second persona?"

Ajax_22

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

@Ajax_22

i think you got the wrong guy in that post, i never said any of that

Thanks I fixed it. I really hate the quote system on these forums when quoting chain quotes or multiple quote posts.

juhasman

Stam sorc need help. My idea for helping him is for example moving adrenaline rush passive from redguard to sorc class passives and giving for example redguard 4% more poison/physical/disease dmg in return.

bloodenragedb14_ESO

Sorcerer in general needs help @juhasman, i get and agree that stamsorcs need help, my worry about all the attention the forums are giving that issue is that, its entirely possible, that magsorcs will get thrown under the bus in fixing stamsorc because ZOS is lazy

Grao

juhasman wrote: »

Stam sorc need help. My idea for helping him is for example moving adrenaline rush passive from redguard to sorc class passives and giving for example redguard 4% more poison/physical/disease dmg in return.

I am sorry, but that one is a horrible idea. For starters there is nothing about that passive that connects to sorcerers lore wise. I am all for buffing stamina sorcerers, don't get me wrong, but what do you propose we lose for this new passive?

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

NativeJoe wrote: »

And...
we as sorc population need to be more vocal about how we feel about all these changes before they just assume where chill with losing 70% of our shield duration, donating some of our passives to stamina sorcs,

Where the hell this coming from? No one wants Magic Sorcs do "donate" passives to us. We want our class passives updated so that Magic and Stam benefit from them. Kinda like what they did with Expert Mage.

DKs have 3 Skills and 3 Passives that affect or scale from Stamina, Weapon Power and Weapon Crit. (Not counting Ults)
NBs have 6 Skills and 4 Passives that affect or scale from Stamina, Weapon Power and Weapon Crit. (Not counting Ults)
Templars have 5 Skills and 3 Passives that affect or scale from Stamina, Weapon Power and Weapon Crit. (Not counting Ults)
Sorcerers have 4 Skills and 3 Passives that affect or scale from Stamina, Weapon Power and Weapon Crit. (Not counting Ults)

As you can see comparing to other classes, sorcerers do have a good number of abilities that either affect positively or scale from Stamina and Weapon Power. The huge issue is that some of those skills or passives are simply not strong enough. Dark Exchange Stamina morph for one is a horrible skill, then again, the skill is bad for Magicka sorcerers as well.

Our Ults are also not exceptional for stamina sorcerers, but looking into them, they are simply not exceptional in general. Atronach's damage is insufficient to justify its use and it carries almost no utility. Negate was buffed, so I will abstain from bashing it for now. I will say that Energy Overload should return stamina or magicka depending on which resource pool is greater.

Understand, we do think stamina sorcerers need buffing, we are just afraid that ZoS will take away passives and abilities magicka sorcerer's need. The class in general needs some serious reviewing, but I am not sure if @Wrobel is actually willing to put in the work needed.

When you look at those numbers everything looks pretty even (I'd argue that not including Leap skews that chart since it is the best Ult any stam build can get on live). However, those numbers are a huge misrepresentation of what is actually going on. Let's look at the NB passives compared to Sorcs.

NBs have one passive that is completely useless, and two that are questionable. Soul Siphoner is useless for stam. Magicka Flood and Executioner could be argued either way, but if you PvP you're not passing up more opportunities to use your magic based utility. I think NBs are the epitome of what passives and abilities should look like in regards to magic vs stam split.

Sorcs have five passives that are completely useless, and four passives that are questionable. Exploitation, Rebate, Expert Summoner, Energized, and Disintegrate are all useless for stam and no reasonable argument can be made otherwise. The questionable passives are, Blood Magic, Persistence, Deadric Protection, and Capacitor. Capacitor like Magicka Flood and Executioner allow you to use your magic utility more often. So that won't be passed up in PvP, but lets take a look at the other ones.

Blood Magic and Persistence
Blood Magic give you 8% health when you hit an enemy with a Dark Magic ability (4% in Cyrodiil and has a 1 second cooldown), and Persistence incresses the duration of those abilities by 20%. Encase is just bad on a Stam Sorc. Throwing out Caltrops, and using Lighting Form will give you the same end result, and do damage as well. You have to center your entire build around Rune Prison if you want to use it, and that build wouldn't work with Crit Surge. Mines are very niche for Stam Sorcs. They do very little damage, cost a lot, due to Blood Magic's cooldown you won't get health from every mine hit, and most of us just don't have bar space for it.

Deadric Protection
This passive, one of the main Stam Sorc passives, requires a Deadric Summoning ability to be slotted. The only Deadric Summoning ability useful to us is Bound Armaments, and it requires two slots to use. Bound Armaments is a pretty good skill, and I think the bonus it gives is balanced. However, it's not worth two bar slots, and even if it was I don't have two things on my bar that would be worth giving up. The only way I can fit Bound Armaments into any of my builds is to run Overload, and use the third bar for utility.

The problem is not the strength of the passives that effect us. The problem is the extreme requirement for some of those passives, and the staggering number of passives that we can't make use of.

Sorcs need a complete class rework, but I agree it won't happen.

You are complaining of the same problems Magicka sorcerers face. We too have to use bound armor because the buff to our magicka pool is really important for our damage. We too have difficulty using half of our passives because they only affect a small portion of our abilities, some of which we never even consider using at least not in PvE.

I agree with you that the class needs some serious restructuring, specially as we don't seem to have a particular identity anymore.

As for Nightblades having more passives and skills that are stamina oriented, well... That makes sense doesn't it? Honestly, when you think of nightblades you think of assassins, a class usually stamina oriented that uses magic to support their use of blades.

Next you have Dragon knights and right away you think of fire and tanks. that is why they have the second most stamina oriented abilities and passives. Tanks need those.

Sorcerers and Templars though, you will start leaning towards more magically oriented classes that should have more magicka oriented passives and skills. That makes sense, sorcerers are the epitome of magicka DPS. Even in the ES Universe the main source of damage for sorcerers isn't their weapons, but spells they use to enhance said damage or their pets, etc. And templars, well... They are meant to be healers. Yes, tanky healers, but still, their main focus is towards healing.

My point is, you can't start taking things from a class that is supposed to be magicka oriented when the magicka builds are already suffering. We are dying from a thousand cuts here and it is not pleasant.

Minalan

Grao wrote: »

juhasman wrote: »

Stam sorc need help. My idea for helping him is for example moving adrenaline rush passive from redguard to sorc class passives and giving for example redguard 4% more poison/physical/disease dmg in return.

I am sorry, but that one is a horrible idea. For starters there is nothing about that passive that connects to sorcerers lore wise. I am all for buffing stamina sorcerers, don't get me wrong, but what do you propose we lose for this new passive?

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

NativeJoe wrote: »

And...
we as sorc population need to be more vocal about how we feel about all these changes before they just assume where chill with losing 70% of our shield duration, donating some of our passives to stamina sorcs,

Where the hell this coming from? No one wants Magic Sorcs do "donate" passives to us. We want our class passives updated so that Magic and Stam benefit from them. Kinda like what they did with Expert Mage.

DKs have 3 Skills and 3 Passives that affect or scale from Stamina, Weapon Power and Weapon Crit. (Not counting Ults)
NBs have 6 Skills and 4 Passives that affect or scale from Stamina, Weapon Power and Weapon Crit. (Not counting Ults)
Templars have 5 Skills and 3 Passives that affect or scale from Stamina, Weapon Power and Weapon Crit. (Not counting Ults)
Sorcerers have 4 Skills and 3 Passives that affect or scale from Stamina, Weapon Power and Weapon Crit. (Not counting Ults)

As you can see comparing to other classes, sorcerers do have a good number of abilities that either affect positively or scale from Stamina and Weapon Power. The huge issue is that some of those skills or passives are simply not strong enough. Dark Exchange Stamina morph for one is a horrible skill, then again, the skill is bad for Magicka sorcerers as well.

Our Ults are also not exceptional for stamina sorcerers, but looking into them, they are simply not exceptional in general. Atronach's damage is insufficient to justify its use and it carries almost no utility. Negate was buffed, so I will abstain from bashing it for now. I will say that Energy Overload should return stamina or magicka depending on which resource pool is greater.

Understand, we do think stamina sorcerers need buffing, we are just afraid that ZoS will take away passives and abilities magicka sorcerer's need. The class in general needs some serious reviewing, but I am not sure if @Wrobel is actually willing to put in the work needed.

When you look at those numbers everything looks pretty even (I'd argue that not including Leap skews that chart since it is the best Ult any stam build can get on live). However, those numbers are a huge misrepresentation of what is actually going on. Let's look at the NB passives compared to Sorcs.

NBs have one passive that is completely useless, and two that are questionable. Soul Siphoner is useless for stam. Magicka Flood and Executioner could be argued either way, but if you PvP you're not passing up more opportunities to use your magic based utility. I think NBs are the epitome of what passives and abilities should look like in regards to magic vs stam split.

Sorcs have five passives that are completely useless, and four passives that are questionable. Exploitation, Rebate, Expert Summoner, Energized, and Disintegrate are all useless for stam and no reasonable argument can be made otherwise. The questionable passives are, Blood Magic, Persistence, Deadric Protection, and Capacitor. Capacitor like Magicka Flood and Executioner allow you to use your magic utility more often. So that won't be passed up in PvP, but lets take a look at the other ones.

Blood Magic and Persistence
Blood Magic give you 8% health when you hit an enemy with a Dark Magic ability (4% in Cyrodiil and has a 1 second cooldown), and Persistence incresses the duration of those abilities by 20%. Encase is just bad on a Stam Sorc. Throwing out Caltrops, and using Lighting Form will give you the same end result, and do damage as well. You have to center your entire build around Rune Prison if you want to use it, and that build wouldn't work with Crit Surge. Mines are very niche for Stam Sorcs. They do very little damage, cost a lot, due to Blood Magic's cooldown you won't get health from every mine hit, and most of us just don't have bar space for it.

Deadric Protection
This passive, one of the main Stam Sorc passives, requires a Deadric Summoning ability to be slotted. The only Deadric Summoning ability useful to us is Bound Armaments, and it requires two slots to use. Bound Armaments is a pretty good skill, and I think the bonus it gives is balanced. However, it's not worth two bar slots, and even if it was I don't have two things on my bar that would be worth giving up. The only way I can fit Bound Armaments into any of my builds is to run Overload, and use the third bar for utility.

The problem is not the strength of the passives that effect us. The problem is the extreme requirement for some of those passives, and the staggering number of passives that we can't make use of.

Sorcs need a complete class rework, but I agree it won't happen.

You are complaining of the same problems Magicka sorcerers face. We too have to use bound armor because the buff to our magicka pool is really important for our damage. We too have difficulty using half of our passives because they only affect a small portion of our abilities, some of which we never even consider using at least not in PvE.

I agree with you that the class needs some serious restructuring, specially as we don't seem to have a particular identity anymore.

As for Nightblades having more passives and skills that are stamina oriented, well... That makes sense doesn't it? Honestly, when you think of nightblades you think of assassins, a class usually stamina oriented that uses magic to support their use of blades.

Next you have Dragon knights and right away you think of fire and tanks. that is why they have the second most stamina oriented abilities and passives. Tanks need those.

Sorcerers and Templars though, you will start leaning towards more magically oriented classes that should have more magicka oriented passives and skills. That makes sense, sorcerers are the epitome of magicka DPS. Even in the ES Universe the main source of damage for sorcerers isn't their weapons, but spells they use to enhance said damage or their pets, etc. And templars, well... They are meant to be healers. Yes, tanky healers, but still, their main focus is towards healing.

My point is, you can't start taking things from a class that is supposed to be magicka oriented when the magicka builds are already suffering. We are dying from a thousand cuts here and it is not pleasant.

More like dying from a thousand little nerfs. Some necessary, and some (six second shield) NOT.

TheHsN

Shields Should be atleast 10 or 12 secs.... If u really watch PVP combats DK and Templar are classes that dies very hard...

other ways on the pts Chages are good...

and More skill morphs should be converted to stamina base...

bloodenragedb14_ESO

TheHsN wrote: »

Shields Should be atleast 10 or 12 secs.... If u really watch PVP combats DK and Templar are classes that dies very hard...

other ways on the pts Chages are good...

and More skill morphs should be converted to stamina base...

How about this, instead of changing existing skill morphs.....HOW ABOUT WE FUGGIN ADD NEW ONES

TheHsN

-Giving Stamina many usefull skills
-Giving them insanly boost
-Giving them poisin making (and even always mantioned Spell crafting not that but poison!!!)
-Giving to them all Fighters guild
-Gving them more damage
-Giving them more burst damage
-Givin them now SHIELD
-Giving them more armor


And

Taking our magicka Shiled :S:S:S:S:S:S we even make our most spell damage with 2 swords:D.... PLSSSS donr be redicilous ZOS...

you are better then this...I was full of hope with DB DLC dont take it away from us ok....
ok you have givin them many thing as BUFF

DONT NERF US keep it how it was atleast already this path you dont give atleast you dont take it away from us:D...

And make me SUB u again:)

NativeJoe

Ajax_22 wrote: »

NativeJoe wrote: »

And...
we as sorc population need to be more vocal about how we feel about all these changes before they just assume where chill with losing 70% of our shield duration, donating some of our passives to stamina sorcs,

Where the hell this coming from? No one wants Magic Sorcs do "donate" passives to us. We want our class passives updated so that Magic and Stam benefit from them. Kinda like what they did with Expert Mage.

that may be the intention... but I don't think any sorcs ever asked for breath of life and we got it. I don't think NB's asked for ward...but they got it now lol. I'm actualy an advocate for you guys getting your stuff. u should be stronger, u need to be. atleast a solid 20k more dps. but I also fear for my side of the sorc as well.

byrom101b16_ESO

@Wroble

We await an answer to our many and repeated concerns and some kind of rationale to be offered for these sticking plaster shield changes that hit us so hard, and the PvP-tunnel vision point of view the changes make clear.

Please explain to us why you are happy to nerf the Sorcerer again?

Are you aware of the poor dps performance of Sorcerers in PvE?

Are you aware that you yourself have made it clear that this was a PvP-only decision?

Do you realise the significant issues PvE performance and play styles will now have because of this PvP-based decision?

Are you aware how shielding is the only effective defence a Sorcerer has?

Are you aware that by giving high levels of shielding to everyone else who wants it, you have made them all more survivable as they have a range of other survival options Sorcerers do not? Do you think this is fair?

I am asking these questions because by inference, it seems you are completely unaware of the problems your design decision is going to make.

Over to you.

P.S. Speaking to a few players has made me aware that the hit to magicka efficiency has gone far more towards making Sorcs. less viable even against lower health mob stocked vet dungeons.

The reason seems clear enough. For every other class, where every form of resource regen. does not have to be cut back to the bone to have dps that won't get you kicked out of a group (but is still the lowest in PvE) means that the new hikes to spell costs, on Sorcerer spells, already the most costly in the game, have hit us FAR harder than other classes.

They have regen. to spare whilst maintaining decent dps.

Sorcerers do not.

Look at the figures and sort this mess out will you?

cpuScientist

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

@Wroble

We await an answer to our many and repeated concerns and some kind of rationale to be offered for these sticking plaster shield changes that hit us so hard, and the PvP-tunnel vision point of view the changes make clear.

Please explain to us why you are happy to nerf the Sorcerer again?

Are you aware of the poor dps performance of Sorcerers in PvE?

Are you aware that you yourself have made it clear that this was a PvP-only decision?

Do you realise the significant issues PvE performance and play styles will now have because of this PvP-based decision?

Are you aware how shielding is the only effective defence a Sorcerer has?

Are you aware that by giving high levels of shielding to everyone else who wants it, you have made them all more survivable as they have a range of other survival options Sorcerers do not? Do you think this is fair?

I am asking these questions because by inference, it seems you are completely unaware of the problems your design decision is going to make.

Over to you.

P.S. Speaking to a few players has made me aware that the hit to magicka efficiency has gone far more towards making Sorcs. less viable even against lower health mob stocked vet dungeons.

The reason seems clear enough. For every other class, where every form of resource regen. does not have to be cut back to the bone to have dps that won't get you kicked out of a group (but is still the lowest in PvE) means that the new hikes to spell costs, on Sorcerer spells, already the most costly in the game, have hit us FAR harder than other classes.

They have regen. to spare whilst maintaining decent dps.

Sorcerers do not.

Look at the figures and sort this mess out will you?

also our spammable in the destro staff tree cost near twice that of swallow soul and is weaker lol with no healing. And costs more than lava whip also alot less damage and finally much weaker than jabbs and not as strong. High cost spammable with crappy damage. But we have to use it.

And the increased costs to all some sorcs will have to adapt by using seducers/magnus bye bye DPS, you were low already why not get lower....Ahhhhhhhhhhh it's almost funny TBH.

We have to many toggles bound armor should just be a passive honestly, increase max magick and stamina by 6% NB have something like this anyway. And then you can add another pet or a dot here. Oooohhhhhhh a dot/pet, you use this skill and it summons a small sword - dagger if you will - that hits that player only neato dot.

Get rid of exchange, what a bad skill and give us our spammable. Range with a melee and range morph. Give Stam instead a melee proc version of crystal frags. That would increase damage and healing and make it stun/slow.

Pets are summon and stay until dead, the skills are now used the same except you can put your heal on your buff bar and what not however you want them (player choice hoooray) and give the twilight tormentor the same mechanic as inferno three attacks over a time. Sigle target and it stuns or slows or roots like the AOE pet, cause right now the tormentor sucks. Also cause I know y'all love meeting, never give oets a timer mechanic. IE lasts 30 seconds... Sorry for even mentioning this. I can see this happening!

Dyride

@Ajax_22 You mention using Blood Magic passive but only damage from a Dark Magic ability will proc Blood Magic passive. The passive is incorrectly worded and I have been reporting this since Orsinium.

The Dark Magic skills that can proc Blood Magic are Crystal Shard morphs, Shattering Prison (if they don't roll out), Daedric Mines and the new Suppression Field morph. These are the only ways to access that passive since nothing else causes damage.

dagonbeer

So is lightning based disintegrate gone? Stam sorc buffed at the expense of mag sorc?

susmitds

dagonbeer wrote: »

So is lightning based disintegrate gone? Stam sorc buffed at the expense of mag sorc?

Yup, it seems.

Valrien

susmitds wrote: »

dagonbeer wrote: »

So is lightning based disintegrate gone? Stam sorc buffed at the expense of mag sorc?

Yup, it seems.

I think it might also do lightning damage? Similar to Burning Light?

Daymond

dagonbeer wrote: »

So is lightning based disintegrate gone? Stam sorc buffed at the expense of mag sorc?

It says now also physical dmg so it did not replace was just added to.

susmitds

Daymond wrote: »

dagonbeer wrote: »

So is lightning based disintegrate gone? Stam sorc buffed at the expense of mag sorc?

It says now also physical dmg so it did not replace was just added to.

A bit below it says the damage dealt is now physical.

NativeJoe

where will you be when Nbs in pvp shield and gank you from stealth where ever you may go repeatedly?
Templars put eclipse on you, purge ur dots, and have a hay day stabbing you to death from behind their own shield/dot heals?
Vamp DK's out shield you and put on reflect and boneshield "reflects 33% of melee damage back', and proceed to go invisible we Dizzy swing you 3-6 times while your unable to do any direct attacks back.
Or people learn to just count to 5, CC you and burst combo you so they don't even have to think about your shields.

And for pve, when everyone is doing VMOL and they need more deep dps, you raise your hand and your turned away because there are many other builds that can double your dps out put. So you offer to tank...and every other class has better options then you. YOu offer yourself as heals and they just laugh at you. You offer yourself and a buff utility but all you have to bring to the fight is a negate and magicka regen that requires you to spam it and thus take a 25% cut to your already considerably low dps. You can offer yourself as a burst dps for the first bosses shield phase and all that with OL...but there are some serious bugs with OL...including it simply just not working till you die...(which we all know is a great fix for scored trials)

I recognize Cookie cutter, standard issue, run of the mill, every day sorcs and their builds will be still viable this DB patch. BUT every other niche build... doesn't seem to be. for numerous reasons...and not only shields.
We need atleast some diversity in builds, passives that make sense, a complete skill revamp for both stamina and magicka, single target skill that can replace crushing shock, some attention to pet sets (no magick based ones since vr12) , pets need to not be so incredibly weak, and we need to bring meaningful dps/utility/damage mitigation/self heals not tied to a pet/crit chance to the party.

Lets say with all the skills they took away the ultimates you can effectively use are meteor and soulstrike.

soulstrike channels for 4 seconds, it takes 2 seconds to cast your shields. but wait... before u cast soulstrike you want to empower it... The shields arn't even long enough to cover you while you cast a ult. Is that not a little more then ridicules?
They added a new mechanic sorcs have to deal with... instead of someone trying to attack our stamina then forcing us to remain cc'd, or stacking attacks to burst throw the shield and to the health, or equipping shield breaker/unresistable and blowing right throw the shields... now they can just CC us ... once they see us shield. count to 5, then cc burst combo wins every single time.

Then there is a the whole other factor of shields decreasing our dps...
Idk how else I can explain it...but EVERY class has their damage mitigation techniques and ways of dealing with damage as I have went deeper into on previous posts. They now get theirs, and ours now. sorcs are facing much much tougher opponents now...and unless your a cookie cutter build your dps has been significantly altered in DB, and other types of builds didn't have to SPAM shields infront of their opponents... thus allowing for some regen and more attacks to take place.

The shield issue is so bad if your not running a cookie cutter build I'm trying to get around using shields...which isn't as easy as it is for so many other classes due to their mitigation techniques... https://www.twitch.tv/trixytricks/v/65488595

Valrien

NativeJoe wrote: »

where will you be when Nbs in pvp shield and gank you from stealth where ever you may go repeatedly?
Templars put eclipse on you, purge ur dots, and have a hay day stabbing you to death from behind their own shield/dot heals?
Vamp DK's out shield you and put on reflect and boneshield "reflects 33% of melee damage back', and proceed to go invisible we Dizzy swing you 3-6 times while your unable to do any direct attacks back.
Or people learn to just count to 5, CC you and burst combo you so they don't even have to think about your shields.

And for pve, when everyone is doing VMOL and they need more deep dps, you raise your hand and your turned away because there are many other builds that can double your dps out put. So you offer to tank...and every other class has better options then you. YOu offer yourself as heals and they just laugh at you. You offer yourself and a buff utility but all you have to bring to the fight is a negate and magicka regen that requires you to spam it and thus take a 25% cut to your already considerably low dps. You can offer yourself as a burst dps for the first bosses shield phase and all that with OL...but there are some serious bugs with OL...including it simply just not working till you die...(which we all know is a great fix for scored trials)

I recognize Cookie cutter, standard issue, run of the mill, every day sorcs and their builds will be still viable this DB patch. BUT every other niche build... doesn't seem to be. for numerous reasons...and not only shields.
We need atleast some diversity in builds, passives that make sense, a complete skill revamp for both stamina and magicka, single target skill that can replace crushing shock, some attention to pet sets (no magick based ones since vr12) , pets need to not be so incredibly weak, and we need to bring meaningful dps/utility/damage mitigation/self heals not tied to a pet/crit chance to the party.

Lets say with all the skills they took away the ultimates you can effectively use are meteor and soulstrike.

soulstrike channels for 4 seconds, it takes 2 seconds to cast your shields. but wait... before u cast soulstrike you want to empower it... The shields arn't even long enough to cover you while you cast a ult. Is that not a little more then ridicules?
They added a new mechanic sorcs have to deal with... instead of someone trying to attack our stamina then forcing us to remain cc'd, or stacking attacks to burst throw the shield and to the health, or equipping shield breaker/unresistable and blowing right throw the shields... now they can just CC us ... once they see us shield. count to 5, then cc burst combo wins every single time.

Then there is a the whole other factor of shields decreasing our dps...
Idk how else I can explain it...but EVERY class has their damage mitigation techniques and ways of dealing with damage as I have went deeper into on previous posts. They now get theirs, and ours now. sorcs are facing much much tougher opponents now...and unless your a cookie cutter build your dps has been significantly altered in DB, and other types of builds didn't have to SPAM shields infront of their opponents... thus allowing for some regen and more attacks to take place.

The shield issue is so bad if your not running a cookie cutter build I'm trying to get around using shields...which isn't as easy as it is for so many other classes due to their mitigation techniques... https://www.twitch.tv/trixytricks/v/65488595

You can't empower channels and DoTs. Just an FYI

Daymond

susmitds wrote: »

Daymond wrote: »

dagonbeer wrote: »

So is lightning based disintegrate gone? Stam sorc buffed at the expense of mag sorc?

It says now also physical dmg so it did not replace was just added to.

A bit below it says the damage dealt is now physical.

Wont know until on pts but i think it deals physical dmg when you proc it with physical dmg and when Lightning dmg its the same as before.

NativeJoe

Valrien wrote: »

NativeJoe wrote: »

where will you be when Nbs in pvp shield and gank you from stealth where ever you may go repeatedly?
Templars put eclipse on you, purge ur dots, and have a hay day stabbing you to death from behind their own shield/dot heals?
Vamp DK's out shield you and put on reflect and boneshield "reflects 33% of melee damage back', and proceed to go invisible we Dizzy swing you 3-6 times while your unable to do any direct attacks back.
Or people learn to just count to 5, CC you and burst combo you so they don't even have to think about your shields.

And for pve, when everyone is doing VMOL and they need more deep dps, you raise your hand and your turned away because there are many other builds that can double your dps out put. So you offer to tank...and every other class has better options then you. YOu offer yourself as heals and they just laugh at you. You offer yourself and a buff utility but all you have to bring to the fight is a negate and magicka regen that requires you to spam it and thus take a 25% cut to your already considerably low dps. You can offer yourself as a burst dps for the first bosses shield phase and all that with OL...but there are some serious bugs with OL...including it simply just not working till you die...(which we all know is a great fix for scored trials)

I recognize Cookie cutter, standard issue, run of the mill, every day sorcs and their builds will be still viable this DB patch. BUT every other niche build... doesn't seem to be. for numerous reasons...and not only shields.
We need atleast some diversity in builds, passives that make sense, a complete skill revamp for both stamina and magicka, single target skill that can replace crushing shock, some attention to pet sets (no magick based ones since vr12) , pets need to not be so incredibly weak, and we need to bring meaningful dps/utility/damage mitigation/self heals not tied to a pet/crit chance to the party.

Lets say with all the skills they took away the ultimates you can effectively use are meteor and soulstrike.

soulstrike channels for 4 seconds, it takes 2 seconds to cast your shields. but wait... before u cast soulstrike you want to empower it... The shields arn't even long enough to cover you while you cast a ult. Is that not a little more then ridicules?
They added a new mechanic sorcs have to deal with... instead of someone trying to attack our stamina then forcing us to remain cc'd, or stacking attacks to burst throw the shield and to the health, or equipping shield breaker/unresistable and blowing right throw the shields... now they can just CC us ... once they see us shield. count to 5, then cc burst combo wins every single time.

Then there is a the whole other factor of shields decreasing our dps...
Idk how else I can explain it...but EVERY class has their damage mitigation techniques and ways of dealing with damage as I have went deeper into on previous posts. They now get theirs, and ours now. sorcs are facing much much tougher opponents now...and unless your a cookie cutter build your dps has been significantly altered in DB, and other types of builds didn't have to SPAM shields infront of their opponents... thus allowing for some regen and more attacks to take place.

The shield issue is so bad if your not running a cookie cutter build I'm trying to get around using shields...which isn't as easy as it is for so many other classes due to their mitigation techniques... https://www.twitch.tv/trixytricks/v/65488595

You can't empower channels and DoTs. Just an FYI

damn lol good to know. (can't trust tool tips, and never got to see the damage from the other side...so there wasn't anyway for me to know that ) point remains tho...there are things we may want to do. that 4 seconds just doesn't leave time for. There isn't enough space...and your more or less left out to die. Casting soulstrike is somewhat of a liability. It's most likly going to kill you to fully channel it.

Derra

First nerf shields.

Then nerf surge to a base value of 1980 per procc once every second (not reduced in cyrodiil atm so that might be okish).

Thanks for nerfing our main defense and afterwards gutting our ability to selfheal aswell. I´m out as any feedback is obviously wasting my time (only a pve related nerf - hello maelstrom arena).

Edit: 3000 heal from critsurge seems pretty nice for stam sorcs though.

olsborg

The surge nerf was below the belt tbh, 1980 healing wich is then cut in half in pvp and has a cd of 1 second....mmm yea, not good at all I say.

ArvenAldmeri

Surge heal nerf is beyond redicolous! Not whole 2k heal?! Seriously?! When I saw the patch notes I was hoping for at least 5k heal. This is not even comparable to what we had before. Doing maelstrom without resto staff now wont be possible anymore... Why do you want to force sorcs to be destro/resto users only?!

code65536

If the change to Critical Surge is good for stamsorcs (I'm not entirely convinced of that, though), why not change just that morph and leave Power Surge unchanged as-is?

With the nerf to Surge, the ward duration, and the availability of the new Harness Magicka for non-sorc builds, I think that even a magicka DK would have an easier time in vMA than a sorc.

SorataArisugawa

ArvenAldmeri wrote: »

Surge heal nerf is beyond redicolous! Not whole 2k heal?! Seriously?! When I saw the patch notes I was hoping for at least 5k heal. This is not even comparable to what we had before. Doing maelstrom without resto staff now wont be possible anymore... Why do you want to force sorcs to be destro/resto users only?!

Because 2 Swords gives the highest amount of Spelldamage. It wouldn't be nice, that a sorc has this in the bar

It is so sad

potirondb16_ESO

Repetition of the comment in the official patch note for 2.4.2

@Wrobel you really need to consider the toggle issue on sorc, we have way too many toggle requirement to deal with when we work our way toward high-end pve. The real issue being bound armor and how it connect to our build. I mean it's an ability you want to slot at all time because of the obvious magika bonus but it's also an ability which has no other advantage, I mean minor protection !! come on !

The synergie Inside this tree really need to be look at, personnally if bound armor is Something that should be on any build it would probably be the tank build not the dps build. (simply because it's an armor) so maybe design it that way, like 4% to each stats or 10% to health and minor protection to phys and spell or reduce block cost, and the one then you have the one that's already there for stamina build). And then build Something around pet for magika build if you want us to go this way. Maybe add 8% max magika for having a pet ability slotted. This way we already get a nice bonus for using pet which may lead us to use this wierd shield of ours instead of harness magika.

Don't make pet for Tank, I'm not even sure Tank can summon pet ! (jk)

Derra

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Are surge heals not being affected by the battlespirit (de)buff working as intended or is this a bug?

exiledtyrant

First Impression Feedback:

Dark Magic

Dark Exchange: Increased the amount of health restored from this ability and its morphs by 100%.

*Great PvE heal now. It will absolutely replace vigor on my bar. With the new animation system in place skills roll off of dark exchanges cast time very smoothly. I can now invest even less points into stamina regen as a heavy attack weaved into a dark exchange is basically a free shards whenever I need it.

Whirling blades aoe will basically be indefinite now. It has a a good base of 8k and seems to be effected by all healing increases modifiers. The heal can not crit but with its 8k base I don't think it has to. It heals for 4k in Cyrodil. I don't think it will be the PvP heal of choice, but it doesn't really have to be.

Storm Calling

Disintegrate:
Renamed this passive ability to Implosion.
This passive ability now also grants all Physical Damage you deal a chance to instantly pulverize low health enemies, dealing additional Physical Damage to them.
Updated this passive’s tooltip to indicate what the health threshold is for it to trigger.

* Good on the damage. I wish the threshold was 25% health though but I guess that could be overwhelming with certain builds.

Energized: This passive ability now also increases your Physical Damage done in addition to the Shock Damage done.

* Another good addition

Hurricane (Lightning Form morph): This morph now also grants the Minor Expedition buff at all times while it is active.

* A great skill gets better. Minor expedition is fairly rare and now be combined with other sources of major expedition to make Sorcerers the fast class on foot. Nice change especially for bow sorcerers

Surge: This ability and its morphs now restore a flat value of health whenever you deal a Critical Strike. It will now also proc on any Critical Strike instead of only direct damage Critical Strikes, but can only restore health once every second.

* Magicka morph healing looks low for this. This may be a fair trade off because of magicka's improved shielding and healing options though. The stamina version is pretty awesome. Scales up to 3k base that looks to be effect by all % healing modifiers. The heal critical is also separate from a weapon critical, but seems to scale with weapon critical % chance. Therefore even if proc regularity is assured at a low level of weapon crit critical healing regularity isn't. Technically this means speccing into more weapon crit doesn't punish sorcerers because they gain more healing from stacking crit.

The proc itself went off like clock work on a build that does 6-9 hits a second at 25% crit chance. The heal was also not halved when I used it in Cyrodil. This may be a bug though.

******************************************************************************************************************

Now will all this said here is my dilemma regarding surge. As a dual wield sorcerer my two bars in PvE consist of:

Bloodthirst - Blood Craze - Hurricane - Rearming trap - Bound Armaments - Flawless Dawn / WW

Whirling Blades - Deadly Cloak - Hurricane - Dark exchange - Bound Armaments - Flawless Dawn / WW

As a dual wield sorceror my two bars in PvP consist of:

Bloodthirst - Blood Craze - Hurricane - silver leash/rune cage - Bound Armaments - Flawless Dawn / WW

Whirling Blades - Deadly Cloak - Hurricane - Vigor - Bound Armaments - Flawless Dawn / WW

Surge is basically competing for the slot against rearming trap ( 24k bleed and 8k flat damage over 12 seconds) and dark exchange. Dreugh Slayer lets me stay at 3500-4k+ weapon damage without ever having to buff again. Hidden blade does actual damage when weaving major brutality in and Rally offers utility along with its heal. Compared to other major brutality buffs it is a little hard to justify.

Then we consider healing. I'm going to want dark exchange now to heal me as it gives a larger heal and 2800 stamina per cast. Blood thirst + blood craze are generating around the same HPS as Surge at around 3500+ weapon power. A lot of good heals have surfaced and a lot of ways to gain major brutality have surfaced with distinct advantages ( extra skill slots, damage, snare immunity).

With all that said this is my point of view from how I play so it is a bit biased, but I don't see where it fits. More healing feels overkill. I would rather have more damage or more defensive utility.