Official Feedback Thread for Templars

hedna123b14_ESO

Nifty2g wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

GhostwalkerLD wrote: »

Dread_Knight_N7 wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We’ve been watching a lot of livestreams, and Templars appear to still be very useful using this ability in conjunction with others. This includes using Focused Healing which now grants you the Major Mending buff, or Healing Ritual which has a decreased cast time.

umm...does anyone else feel like this isn't true? I mean, there aren't that many Templar streamers as it is and I'm 99.99% sure that none of them actually use healing ritual for may reasons stated before.

Can we please stop having Healing Ritual shoved down our throats...

Not one templar player I know, including obviously myself, uses healing ritual. Not ONE. At all. Gina, please provide links to these 'streams' you're watching that shows ANYONE using healing ritual, let alone being "very useful." Not to mention you claiming we're "still very useful" after these nerfs, yet again makes me wonder why these nerfs (and all the others over the past two years) were heaped on the templar class. "Too useful" you mean?

Not that I'm happy with BoL changes, but I think thats kind of the point. Outside of raids no templar will use anything but BoL and repentance. They are trying to make it so that we have to use more healing skills and thus will be required to play more as a healer, rather than dps with an offheal.

Just saying this and looking at it from that point of view means they know nothing about their own gameplay lol.

This game is not about healing over time, it's all about burst damage and burst heals. What an odd direction they are taking in terms of healing, or wanting to take that direction, this game is too fast paced for damage and movement for Healing over time skills to ever work; you won't ever be able to out heal the incoming damage with rapid regen, healing ritual etc

That's just my opinion though, this goes for PvE by the way, guess you could say the same about PvP but that's probably where the main source of problem is, so my question is, why not just change how certain skills work inside and outside of PvP?

lets hope they bring us content that reflects this new direction...

david.haypreub18_ESO

They can't acknowledge this thread, because Wrobel would then have to acknowledge that his vision of the class is not working.

I think that somehow, he honestly believes that Templars are just fine, and that his changes have improved the game. How he believes that, I don't know; maybe he doesn't play a Templar or maybe he just tunes out any evidence that contradicts his vision. This was why he was able to say laughable things like Templars 'protecting my house'.

This isn't a one-time thing. He's been doing this for over a year now. Each update promised to fix and balance Templars; each actual update only ended up nerfing them more and making them less viable.

He is simply in over his head, and having his head stuck in the sand allows him to tune out the voices of actual Templars. Sad, but it's where we've been for over a year now. I don't think anything is going to change until someone, somehow, gets him to listen to reason.

staracino_ESO

SeptimusDova wrote: »

perhaps to focus us, canalize us, and prevent us from running amok in other areas on the board and causing a deafening ruckus.

They have about a week before all of this pours out into the General/Class forums "like a spilled chamberpot." Because while we may have been vocal and mostly civil, just imagine all of the players who do not visit the forums or read patch notes who will be blindsided by these changes. Imagine the sheer volume of bug reports they will write about BoL not healing 3 people; or the number of people who will come to the forums for the sole purpose of creating angry, uncivil threads.

Alabyn

Soris wrote: »

It is. But it is not an excuse for being ignored.

But there's nothing in the ToS that says they'll reply to forum suggestions, right? I mean, there's nothing that says they are obliged to even have official forums? Or patch notes for that matter. Providing those notes seems like a helpful courtesy.

There's no entitlement. Just a business transaction, service for cash under the ToS. Each has to decide with the wallet if it's a worthwhile transaction.

Alabyn

Abeille wrote: »

davidphowardb14_ESO wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

It is. But it is not an excuse for being ignored.

If you are that starved for attention and validation, perhaps gaming is not the best use of your time.

I am not minimizing your feelings on the matter. I am just pointing out that in the scheme of things this game means very little. If it is that encompassing, you may want to consider other life choices.

Well, in the great scheme of things, our very lives mean very little, and so does our life choices xD

Sure, gaming is just a hobby. But when you love something you do, you get upset when something about that is not going right, especially when it reaches a point that you can't enjoy that hobby that much anymore.

People who complain about issues for months to no end and insist for them to be fixed are people who love the game, and who want to enjoy it. Otherwise, they would just leave.

Also, keep in mind that how much a hobby means is different for each people. It might be just something you do on your free time for some, it might be the only thing you like to do on your free time for others, it might be much needed escape from reality for many more.

You make valid points, however, people who complain for months to no end might just as possibly be people whose identity is simply closely associated with complaining for months to no end. That's a tough thing to know and accept about oneself.

staracino_ESO

With so much competition for business in this industry, there is no room for things to be "just business" anymore. A company needs to consider the impact that all of its actions might have in its reputation. MMO's are always under development, and if you do not have forums or some other way of communicating with your customers, you are shutting them out of the development process. Customers need transparency when it comes to the products and services they are paying for. If a company does not provide this, they will damage their reputation. If they ask for feedback, and then do not engage with the people providing the feedback, that will damage their reputation. Even if they came in here and said "These ideas are stupid because x, or this wont work because y," they would at least be engaging with us.
In fact, I would be very interested in getting unfiltered dev responses to everything that has been going on this thread; no holds barred.

Swen_von_Walhallion

Well i am happy to play most OP class in ESO. Bc i se other reason to konstatly nerfing us

staracino_ESO

We are still suffering from the curse of the gold farmer... 2 years later. That and there was that one video of that one guy running around on a keep wall with sun shield, harness magicka, blazing shards and puncturing sweeps and he was killing everything back at launch so we must bear that burden until the end of days.

Essiaga

davidphowardb14_ESO wrote: »

Some things to consider.

• I read the majority of this thread.
• I am 46 and have gamed in multiplayer since the first MUDS
• This thread and these arguments have been around since the first MUDS.
• You all need to settle down. Its a game, not a lifestyle.

The rampant, need I say rabid, posts of "woe is nerf" is why I play on the XBOne. It feels more isolated and you avoid the PC txt interface. The "pro-gamer" mentality and the fundamental issues surrounding online PVP gaming and the incidental backlash that it causes PVE gamers is simply a fact of life. The only way to avoid it is to play single player games or only play MMOs that are PVE based with no PVP skill mixing. So far that has not happened in part to the vocal minority that is end game raid and end game PVP players. Until the casual base can find a voice, this will continue.

That being said, have fun. Its a game.

-Dave

All due respect but you're speaking for your self and don't know who or what drives the people making the comments they are making here. You don't know what the game means to people because you are you and you have what you have in your life to put things into a different perspective.

Others are not so fortune and do get frustrated that they supported a product and invested so much time in their lives to watch it go down hill. Some people have friends they don't want to lose. An activity they do with their boy/girlfriend, etc. Some of these people might be disabled and this game is the most human contact they can handle.

Your comment here is not constructive. Its not going to make someone who's passionate about a game any less passionate. It simply makes you feel better for telling someone you don't agree with to get a life with out regard to the life the do, don't, can't have.

We're all talking ESO here. Feel free to join in but please don't comment on the posters personally.

Solariken

SeptimusDova wrote: »

perhaps to focus us, canalize us, and prevent us from running amok in other areas on the board and causing a deafening ruckus.

You might be right honestly. If so, mission accomplished I guess. This whole debacle has honestly changed my perception of ZOS in a very negative way. They have lost a ton of my respect, and not because we didn't get the changes we were asking for, but because they are completely inept in key business areas like customer service and community engagement. The management/leadership is totally defunct and out of touch with their own game. While there are a ton of incredibly talented people at ZOS, the weak links may drive it into the ground.

I'll keep playing for now because it's a great game overall and I still have a lot of fun on my vampstamplar, but if another MMO with similar or better combat comes out, I'm gone.

AJ_1988

Essiaga wrote: »

davidphowardb14_ESO wrote: »

Some things to consider.

• I read the majority of this thread.
• I am 46 and have gamed in multiplayer since the first MUDS
• This thread and these arguments have been around since the first MUDS.
• You all need to settle down. Its a game, not a lifestyle.

The rampant, need I say rabid, posts of "woe is nerf" is why I play on the XBOne. It feels more isolated and you avoid the PC txt interface. The "pro-gamer" mentality and the fundamental issues surrounding online PVP gaming and the incidental backlash that it causes PVE gamers is simply a fact of life. The only way to avoid it is to play single player games or only play MMOs that are PVE based with no PVP skill mixing. So far that has not happened in part to the vocal minority that is end game raid and end game PVP players. Until the casual base can find a voice, this will continue.

That being said, have fun. Its a game.

-Dave

All due respect but you're speaking for your self and don't know who or what drives the people making the comments they are making here. You don't know what the game means to people because you are you and you have what you have in your life to put things into a different perspective.

Others are not so fortune and do get frustrated that they supported a product and invested so much time in their lives to watch it go down hill. Some people have friends they don't want to lose. An activity they do with their boy/girlfriend, etc. Some of these people might be disabled and this game is the most human contact they can handle.

Your comment here is not constructive. Its not going to make someone who's passionate about a game any less passionate. It simply makes you feel better for telling someone you don't agree with to get a life with out regard to the life the do, don't, can't have.

We're all talking ESO here. Feel free to join in but please don't comment on the posters personally.

My thoughts exactly. Kudos to you.

Essiaga

Solariken wrote: »

SeptimusDova wrote: »

perhaps to focus us, canalize us, and prevent us from running amok in other areas on the board and causing a deafening ruckus.

You might be right honestly. If so, mission accomplished I guess. This whole debacle has honestly changed my perception of ZOS in a very negative way. They have lost a ton of my respect, and not because we didn't get the changes we were asking for, but because they are completely inept in key business areas like customer service and community engagement. The management/leadership is totally defunct and out of touch with their own game. While there are a ton of incredibly talented people at ZOS, the weak links may drive it into the ground.

I'll keep playing for now because it's a great game overall AMD I still have a lot of fun on my vampstamplar, but if another MMO with similar or better combat comes out, I'm gone.

There's plenty of Templar discussion in general and other postings. It's not contained and will only get worse once this hits live as people have pointed out. Good thing is ZOS doesn't seem to care. Good for them, and it saves me money too.

Having played other classes with Healing in other MMOs I should have know better the to play a healing class in this one. Its also the healers the devs just can't seemed to figure out how to balance out.

SeptimusDova

After this goes live I am going to buy many boxes of microwave popcorn just to see and enjoy the poop show that the general forums will bring. Lol I might just stream that for the lulz

Abeille

Alabyn wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

davidphowardb14_ESO wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

It is. But it is not an excuse for being ignored.

If you are that starved for attention and validation, perhaps gaming is not the best use of your time.

I am not minimizing your feelings on the matter. I am just pointing out that in the scheme of things this game means very little. If it is that encompassing, you may want to consider other life choices.

Well, in the great scheme of things, our very lives mean very little, and so does our life choices xD

Sure, gaming is just a hobby. But when you love something you do, you get upset when something about that is not going right, especially when it reaches a point that you can't enjoy that hobby that much anymore.

People who complain about issues for months to no end and insist for them to be fixed are people who love the game, and who want to enjoy it. Otherwise, they would just leave.

Also, keep in mind that how much a hobby means is different for each people. It might be just something you do on your free time for some, it might be the only thing you like to do on your free time for others, it might be much needed escape from reality for many more.

You make valid points, however, people who complain for months to no end might just as possibly be people whose identity is simply closely associated with complaining for months to no end. That's a tough thing to know and accept about oneself.

Possibly. I like to think that they are not the majority, and that most complainers actually mean well and are complaining for months because the issue they complain about has been aroudnd for months, and that they will stop once it is solved. But I might just not know people.

eliisra

Abeille wrote: »

Alabyn wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

davidphowardb14_ESO wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

It is. But it is not an excuse for being ignored.

If you are that starved for attention and validation, perhaps gaming is not the best use of your time.

I am not minimizing your feelings on the matter. I am just pointing out that in the scheme of things this game means very little. If it is that encompassing, you may want to consider other life choices.

Well, in the great scheme of things, our very lives mean very little, and so does our life choices xD

Sure, gaming is just a hobby. But when you love something you do, you get upset when something about that is not going right, especially when it reaches a point that you can't enjoy that hobby that much anymore.

People who complain about issues for months to no end and insist for them to be fixed are people who love the game, and who want to enjoy it. Otherwise, they would just leave.

Also, keep in mind that how much a hobby means is different for each people. It might be just something you do on your free time for some, it might be the only thing you like to do on your free time for others, it might be much needed escape from reality for many more.

You make valid points, however, people who complain for months to no end might just as possibly be people whose identity is simply closely associated with complaining for months to no end. That's a tough thing to know and accept about oneself.

Possibly. I like to think that they are not the majority, and that most complainers actually mean well and are complaining for months because the issue they complain about has been aroudnd for months, and that they will stop once it is solved. But I might just not know people.

Of course you're right lol.

Majority would likely rather be in-game playing a fun, smooth, balanced and bug-free class, than being unhappy on a gaming forum. Especially since the disappointment they're expressing, aren't getting any responses.

I've given up for now after 3 major DLC and roughly a year of being promised templar + buffs and fixes. Nothing gets fixed and with a minor buff you get just as many and even more brutal nerfs. I cancelled my sub and currently playing a another MMO, because that's more fun than "complaining" and being frustrated.

Hopefully at some point they start taking our templar feedback seriously and I will return to ESO. But not sure tbh, because most so called "complainers" are just barking really and no actions. That's why ZoS can continue to ignore things like templars, performance, game breaking bugs and you name it, they know most people will keep playing anyway and buy DLC's.

I dont blame them either, this game has so many good things about it. Amazing things really. If my templar wasn't the characters I considered closets to "myself", I would just switch to my NB or sorc and still playing this colourful game, even with all it's issues.

BlackEar

Page 73. No reply.

The only answer must be that they have a goodie bags of buffs in store for us as a surprise!

I still have faith.

staracino_ESO

SeptimusDova wrote: »

After this goes live I am going to buy many boxes of microwave popcorn just to see and enjoy the poop show that the general forums will bring. Lol I might just stream that for the lulz

You should do dramatic readings of each post.

puffy99

What good are the moderators if they don't even moderate or contribute to the forum in SOME way?
Just to update patch notes? Are they receptionists full time? They certainly are not developers or tech people.

At least hire some babes so I can look at something good looking in the ESO youtube broadcasts.

Dredlord

davidphowardb14_ESO wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

It is. But it is not an excuse for being ignored.

If you are that starved for attention and validation, perhaps gaming is not the best use of your time.

I am not minimizing your feelings on the matter. I am just pointing out that in the scheme of things this game means very little. If it is that encompassing, you may want to consider other life choices.

Maybe you should stick a feather in your ash and call it macaroni too eh?

Try not to be a hypocrit while your at it...

Ffastyl

staracino_ESO wrote: »

Food for thought: A moderate amount of homogeneity allows for easier balancing. Unique ideas are always welcome, but they serve as huge X factors when it comes to maintaining parity.
We have had a lot of discussion about Buffs and basic functionality like mobility, and I feel that this is where the safe homogeneity resides. Take all of the basic things a class needs to function and separate them into individual pieces, then combine them together in 4 different ways so that each class can get everything by using approximately the same number of in class abilities. Once that is done, you can begin adding in the X factors that make the classes unique.

@staracino_ESO This idea of balance is in line with my post from page 60 (#1800), please take a look at it.

SeptimusDova

@staracino_ESO

It will be a dramatic reading ! Something cross between James Earl Jones and Monty python.

Hiero_Glyph

SeptimusDova wrote: »

@staracino_ESO

It will be a dramatic reading ! Something cross between James Earl Jones and Monty python.

(James Earl Jones): The Templar prepared for the upcoming battle by preparing his formidable defense. He carefully placed the rune and steadied himself for the inevitable onslaught. He would defend this area that had become his home with his life.

The impertinent Sorcerer had other ideas and targeted the indomitable Templar with a Crystal Fragment. The damage done was instant and the scars of battle were too much for the Templar's rune to withstand.

(Monty Python): Run away! Run away!

(James Earl Jones): But alas, he was far too slow to escape his fate.

SeptimusDova

Hiero_Glyph
10/10 awesome

(Monty Python) We must build a wooden dragonknight and hide inside!

Hymzir

For the past several days I've come close to commenting on this thread. Had some stuff to say after the last ESO live, had some pithy remarks to make about latest developments and stuff like that. But... I always just ended up doing something else with my time, because... Why bother? Not like commenting on these forums is gonna make a licking difference to anything.

I, like many other fellow Templars, have already moved onward and found an alternative game to spend my time with. The general lack of respect towards their customers by ZOS has made me fairly apathetic towards ESO as a whole. I simply don't care anymore. I'm not even really posting this for ZOS to read, since I do not believe they read anything posted here. I am posting this to you, my fellow Templars. It was a fun ride but it has come to an end, and it is time to move on. There has been a lot of brilliant ideas and suggestions on this thread. I wish ZOS would listen to their customers, but since they don't, there's really not much we can do about any of it. Other than walk away from this mess, that is.

At the moment I only log every third day or so, just to maintain my active status so as not to be kicked from my trading guilds. When I do log in, I might end up doing PVP for an hour or two, but can't seem to care much about that either. All I see is an ever increasing number of deto-trains running about making meaningful PVP an ever more elusive illusion. All it seems to be is about blind spamming of AOE heals and damage skills.

With no meaningful change to the Templar class, and nerf to several key aspects of our class, I just can't see why I would want to endure the pain and misery that the future holds. All the issues I've had with the Templar will still be there when TG hits live, and I will also be dealing with a whole bunch of new issues. PVP in general is gonna take a massive nose dive when everyone, and I mean everyone, will have access to magicka detonation. And now with an increase to damage to boot!

Maybe the new ridiculous DPS sets will make zerging a bad idea, but I highly doubt that. The fact that they added a bit to barrier that ensures that with multiple barriers firing at the same time, the shield is gonna prioritize low health targets that do not have barrier, will just mean that zergs need a few more healbots firing off barrier and purge non stop. What I do know for sure is that stopping a surging zerg will be almost impossible.

But you say detonation will hit lone targets for less damage! So what - 15% damage (with increases spell damage all around) will not mean anything when you eat 4-6 of them at the same time. And if you try to block a breach by having 10 guys defend it... well the zerg train that rushes past them all sporting detonation will mean that each guy in the breach will eat 4-6 detonations doing twice the damage they do on live. And with that I am gonna lose the last bit that kept me playing ESO - large scale PVP battles. They will degenerate to ever larger zerg fests where numbers is the only thing that matters.

But whatever - that is just tangential to this whole Templar debacle anyway. A re-work of the class, one that would've made Templars achieve parity with the other classes, would've gone a long way to keep me interested in this game. Even with the ever escalating power creep and DPS race that it has become. But that was not to be since Wrobel has a deranged vision about a house and is totally oblivious to the current meta that emphasizes mobility.

Once TG goes live, I will just politely inform my guildmates that I'm going to hibernation mode and thus will remove myself from the guild, so as not to take up a roster slot that could be filled with an actual active member. From thereon and forth, I will only log on days the monster gear vendor is available to check out if anything interesting is on sale. On such days I might stick around for an hour or two, maybe work on my fishing achievements or something, or I might just decide to hell with it and go do something that is actually interesting and enjoyable. Like playing another game...

One thing is certain, however, ZOS will not be getting any money from me ever again. If they do fix Templars at some distant future point, that might change or it might not. Since, by then, I'll have invested my energies in other ventures, and might feel ambivalent about returning to ESO. One other thing is also certain - I will never buy a game that lists Eric Wrobel among it's designers. In fact, I predict that the name of Wrobel will go down in the annals of gaming as a meme associated with failure. ESO was a fine game until it took Wrobel in the knee...

And with that I bid you all a fair farewell. You might spot me in Cyrodiil every now and then, or perhaps fishing in one of the PVE zones. But I no longer take active part in campaigns, or participate in trials or daily dungeons. I will no longer log on daily, and will only show up a couple of times each month and only stick around for an hour or two. I will also no longer waste my time offering feedback on the forums when it's so obvious that no one from ZOS is listening.

Joy_Division

Don't blame you.

The time I did devote on these forums and testing stuff will be dedicated to the Camelot Unchained Beta. ESO still has amazing potential as its no cooldown and the fluidity of its combat (well, for the other three classes that can move and attack at the same time) are excellent foundational principles. It's unfortunate the developers are unwilling to listen to their customer base on how best to tap that potential.

nagarjunna

Joy_Division wrote: »

Don't blame you.

The time I did devote on these forums and testing stuff will be dedicated to the Camelot Unchained Beta. ESO still has amazing potential as its no cooldown and the fluidity of its combat (well, for the other three classes that can move and attack at the same time) are excellent foundational principles. It's unfortunate the developers are unwilling to listen to their customer base on how best to tap that potential.

I'll see you in CU, Joy! Really looking forward to the formal beta!

david.haypreub18_ESO

Yep, don't quit fellow Templars; if this goes live, then we take the fight to the General Forums. The more they nerf and ignore us, the more vocal we will be.

ThatGuyCameron

Joy_Division wrote: »

Don't blame you.

The time I did devote on these forums and testing stuff will be dedicated to the Camelot Unchained Beta. ESO still has amazing potential as its no cooldown and the fluidity of its combat (well, for the other three classes that can move and attack at the same time) are excellent foundational principles. It's unfortunate the developers are unwilling to listen to their customer base on how best to tap that potential.

*Googles "Camelot Unchained" out of curiosity*

Three Realms in one persistent, massive, open-world sandbox environment, with towns and cities built almost entirely by the players. Do battle over scarce resources, take and hold Places of Power, burn down your enemies' homes, and seek to conquer The Depths™, a TriRealm dungeon like none other in gaming. This might be a sandbox game, but you aren't building sandcastles: You are building and defending your homes!

Aha! It's the Elder Templars Online, where we not only build and defend our houses, but build our own towns and cities! Suck it Wrobel, you just lost 90% of your Templar population.

Solariken

Joy_Division wrote: »

Don't blame you.

The time I did devote on these forums and testing stuff will be dedicated to the Camelot Unchained Beta. ESO still has amazing potential as its no cooldown and the fluidity of its combat (well, for the other three classes that can move and attack at the same time) are excellent foundational principles. It's unfortunate the developers are unwilling to listen to their customer base on how best to tap that potential.

I'll see you in CU.

Ishammael

Joy_Division wrote: »

Don't blame you.

The time I did devote on these forums and testing stuff will be dedicated to the Camelot Unchained Beta. ESO still has amazing potential as its no cooldown and the fluidity of its combat (well, for the other three classes that can move and attack at the same time) are excellent foundational principles. It's unfortunate the developers are unwilling to listen to their customer base on how best to tap that potential.

I get emails 2-3x per week from MJ. They live stream. There is a set of "principles" upon which the game is created.
Yeah its in a rough state right now, but hell, they are doing everything right.

ESO has been out for two years now. It had the potential to be the best RvR MMO ever made. The setting, graphics, action combat, class dynamics, and flexibility all but guaranteed it. Unfortunately, we the players have taken first seat to the utter squandering of that baseline. In fact, it is a testament to the base game that we are still playing today!

Does anyone recall all of the launch-day reviews of ESO? I do. Not one had a good thing to say about a single bit of the PvE content. Every, single one praised the PvP -- and it was almost totally messed up at launch. By god, do you remember the first time you rode out into the Cyrodiil zone? First time you sieged? First time you fought on Alessia bridge? Its not just nostalgia -- ESO, when it works, is amazing and fun.

But rather than work on the parts of the game that were actually good, ZoS doubled down on the parts that were bad. You know what the result is? PvE is still bad -- actually, its basically a joke. There is zero PvE endgame (lol grind VMA). The vet dungeons are laughable (except ICP which is just annoying). The vet zones went from challenging (good!) to face-to-keyboard easy (why?!).

And yet! And yet! PvP is still fun. AND THEY HAVEN'T ADDED A DAMN THING! In fact, all they have done is remove ***! Imagine if their effort had been spent on PvP additions. Imagine if IC was actually the PvP zone it should have been -- accessible via the broken bridges in the center of Cyrodiil. With capturable zones, and loot that mattered. Imagine if the Sewers was a sneaky way to enter enemy territory. Imagine if you could sneak scrolls through the sewers. Imagine if Bruma, Chey, Cropsford, etc. were capturable and provided a bonus to your faction. Imagine if PvP raids had been capped at 8 the minute lag started showing up in 1.3. Imagine if they had actually continued to update the PvP gear sets. Imagine if class balance had been a continually process rather than once per six months.

Anyway, this rant is making me tired. CU later.