Official Feedback Thread for Templars

Minno

ThatGuyCameron wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Don't blame you.

The time I did devote on these forums and testing stuff will be dedicated to the Camelot Unchained Beta. ESO still has amazing potential as its no cooldown and the fluidity of its combat (well, for the other three classes that can move and attack at the same time) are excellent foundational principles. It's unfortunate the developers are unwilling to listen to their customer base on how best to tap that potential.

*Googles "Camelot Unchained" out of curiosity*

Three Realms in one persistent, massive, open-world sandbox environment, with towns and cities built almost entirely by the players. Do battle over scarce resources, take and hold Places of Power, burn down your enemies' homes, and seek to conquer The Depths™, a TriRealm dungeon like none other in gaming. This might be a sandbox game, but you aren't building sandcastles: You are building and defending your homes!

Aha! It's the Elder Templars Online, where we not only build and defend our houses, but build our own towns and cities! Suck it Wrobel, you just lost 90% of your Templar population.

The classes look fun. Thinking of going Abbot due to my love of beer.

Kaliki

Minno wrote: »

ThatGuyCameron wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Don't blame you.

The time I did devote on these forums and testing stuff will be dedicated to the Camelot Unchained Beta. ESO still has amazing potential as its no cooldown and the fluidity of its combat (well, for the other three classes that can move and attack at the same time) are excellent foundational principles. It's unfortunate the developers are unwilling to listen to their customer base on how best to tap that potential.

*Googles "Camelot Unchained" out of curiosity*

Three Realms in one persistent, massive, open-world sandbox environment, with towns and cities built almost entirely by the players. Do battle over scarce resources, take and hold Places of Power, burn down your enemies' homes, and seek to conquer The Depths™, a TriRealm dungeon like none other in gaming. This might be a sandbox game, but you aren't building sandcastles: You are building and defending your homes!

Aha! It's the Elder Templars Online, where we not only build and defend our houses, but build our own towns and cities! Suck it Wrobel, you just lost 90% of your Templar population.

The classes look fun. Thinking of going Abbot due to my love of beer.

Apart from all the sandbox features they even seem to have something like spellcrafting via ability combinations.
Thx for making me notice, it sounds awesome.^^

dodgehopper_ESO

Ishammael wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Don't blame you.

The time I did devote on these forums and testing stuff will be dedicated to the Camelot Unchained Beta. ESO still has amazing potential as its no cooldown and the fluidity of its combat (well, for the other three classes that can move and attack at the same time) are excellent foundational principles. It's unfortunate the developers are unwilling to listen to their customer base on how best to tap that potential.

I get emails 2-3x per week from MJ. They live stream. There is a set of "principles" upon which the game is created.
Yeah its in a rough state right now, but hell, they are doing everything right.

ESO has been out for two years now. It had the potential to be the best RvR MMO ever made. The setting, graphics, action combat, class dynamics, and flexibility all but guaranteed it. Unfortunately, we the players have taken first seat to the utter squandering of that baseline. In fact, it is a testament to the base game that we are still playing today!

Does anyone recall all of the launch-day reviews of ESO? I do. Not one had a good thing to say about a single bit of the PvE content. Every, single one praised the PvP -- and it was almost totally messed up at launch. By god, do you remember the first time you rode out into the Cyrodiil zone? First time you sieged? First time you fought on Alessia bridge? Its not just nostalgia -- ESO, when it works, is amazing and fun.

But rather than work on the parts of the game that were actually good, ZoS doubled down on the parts that were bad. You know what the result is? PvE is still bad -- actually, its basically a joke. There is zero PvE endgame (lol grind VMA). The vet dungeons are laughable (except ICP which is just annoying). The vet zones went from challenging (good!) to face-to-keyboard easy (why?!).

And yet! And yet! PvP is still fun. AND THEY HAVEN'T ADDED A DAMN THING! In fact, all they have done is remove ***! Imagine if their effort had been spent on PvP additions. Imagine if IC was actually the PvP zone it should have been -- accessible via the broken bridges in the center of Cyrodiil. With capturable zones, and loot that mattered. Imagine if the Sewers was a sneaky way to enter enemy territory. Imagine if you could sneak scrolls through the sewers. Imagine if Bruma, Chey, Cropsford, etc. were capturable and provided a bonus to your faction. Imagine if PvP raids had been capped at 8 the minute lag started showing up in 1.3. Imagine if they had actually continued to update the PvP gear sets. Imagine if class balance had been a continually process rather than once per six months.

Anyway, this rant is making me tired. CU later.

I agree with a lot of your points on the PvP. I'm happy that they're adding new storyline content and trials for the players who like that sort of thing, but it is increasingly frustrating how it seems like they do nothing about class balance in pvp. They really need to offer alternatives so that every class can do everything, with guild skills or otherwise. I really wish Silver Leash were just a fighters guild version of Dragon Knight chains. I wish that there were a decent out-of-class aoe cc so that I wouldn't have to complain about the lack thereof in the Templar skill line. I actually wish there were a Cloak skill and a proper Shield skill obtainable through guilds, for the very reason of creating parity of all classes. Honestly, I wouldn't even care if they offered a heal skill to all classes. I just don't care, because honestly I don't even think classes were a good idea. The game should have self contained balance in the same manner that TSW has it, and that game has wide open skills. One of the things they did in TSW that made it work was that you had to mesh your gear with the loadout of skills. I realize they want to have armor open to a variety of builds, but even so they are doing that poorly right now with the way Heavy Armor works. It is frustrating, because all of the things I gravitated to stylistically at the start of the game were things which underperformed: Heavy Armor, Templars, Weapon Damage. The Sword and Shield was strong at least, but it took a major update to get weapons reasonably functioning, and I would posit that Heavy Armor and Templars have been goofy since the outset of the game, and have only gotten substantially worse. If you want to play Templar, there really is only one job you should take: Healer. All the other roles are possible, but you're fighting with one arm behind your back, and frankly I don't think ZoS cares. Templar is very shallow, and very poorly designed with respect to the state of the game and the build of other classes. We all know it. @blabafat has stated that the class is the 'most balanced' and I agree in one respect, if other classes were built like Templar the game would be a lot more balanced. Templars have the most give and take in what they are offered, and that at its root is very balancing. The problem is that the other classes don't have that kind of give and take, and therefore the balance is heavily against Templar favor.

I am growing weary of this conversation, and not because this forum thread is 73 pages long. I'm weary of this conversation because we have been giving feedback for 2 years. I'm weary because no one from ZoS has the cojones to come in here and talk to us like paying customers. They know we're mad and rather than meet us like men or women they're ignoring our thread, while they continue to pander the classes which aren't aggrieved. This reminds me of high school, where teachers, principles and school security were scared sh1tl3ss of the real trouble children, but would lay down the hammer on people who had very minor infractions (like being slightly late going from one class to another as they carried a large science project for instance). All the while the drug dealers had free reign, and the truly violent got away with whatever the hell they want. Its cowardice pure and simple, and this is my biggest irritation right now. 73 pages and not a damned thing has been said from ZoS of any substance here. Why? Why can't you come in here and talk about your vision, your goals, your plans, even in sweeping and general terms? Throw us a bone, you owe us that much, whether or not the Terms of Service say so one person to another you guys really should talk to us.

Minno

Kaliki wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

ThatGuyCameron wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Don't blame you.

The time I did devote on these forums and testing stuff will be dedicated to the Camelot Unchained Beta. ESO still has amazing potential as its no cooldown and the fluidity of its combat (well, for the other three classes that can move and attack at the same time) are excellent foundational principles. It's unfortunate the developers are unwilling to listen to their customer base on how best to tap that potential.

*Googles "Camelot Unchained" out of curiosity*

Three Realms in one persistent, massive, open-world sandbox environment, with towns and cities built almost entirely by the players. Do battle over scarce resources, take and hold Places of Power, burn down your enemies' homes, and seek to conquer The Depths™, a TriRealm dungeon like none other in gaming. This might be a sandbox game, but you aren't building sandcastles: You are building and defending your homes!

Aha! It's the Elder Templars Online, where we not only build and defend our houses, but build our own towns and cities! Suck it Wrobel, you just lost 90% of your Templar population.

The classes look fun. Thinking of going Abbot due to my love of beer.

Apart from all the sandbox features they even seem to have something like spellcrafting via ability combinations.
Thx for making me notice, it sounds awesome.^^

And sandbox games are the future for MMO's especially for those that used Minecraft when they were 10-15 years old. When they get older, they will look for a game that feels less like a theme park and more exploratory.

SeptimusDova

Ill stick around long enough to turn the lights off and lock the door to our House and then I will CU around King Arthur's place. I hope the Abbot has good beer.

Minno

SeptimusDova wrote: »

Ill stick around long enough to turn the lights off and lock the door to our House and then I will CU around King Arthur's place. I hope the Abbot has good beer.

From what I read, they got an AOE beer spell that CC's

Animal_Mother

Minno wrote: »

SeptimusDova wrote: »

Ill stick around long enough to turn the lights off and lock the door to our House and then I will CU around King Arthur's place. I hope the Abbot has good beer.

From what I read, they got an AOE beer spell that CC's

Is it called Blinding Draughts?

technohic

Ishammael wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Don't blame you.

The time I did devote on these forums and testing stuff will be dedicated to the Camelot Unchained Beta. ESO still has amazing potential as its no cooldown and the fluidity of its combat (well, for the other three classes that can move and attack at the same time) are excellent foundational principles. It's unfortunate the developers are unwilling to listen to their customer base on how best to tap that potential.

I get emails 2-3x per week from MJ. They live stream. There is a set of "principles" upon which the game is created.
Yeah its in a rough state right now, but hell, they are doing everything right.

ESO has been out for two years now. It had the potential to be the best RvR MMO ever made. The setting, graphics, action combat, class dynamics, and flexibility all but guaranteed it. Unfortunately, we the players have taken first seat to the utter squandering of that baseline. In fact, it is a testament to the base game that we are still playing today!

Does anyone recall all of the launch-day reviews of ESO? I do. Not one had a good thing to say about a single bit of the PvE content. Every, single one praised the PvP -- and it was almost totally messed up at launch. By god, do you remember the first time you rode out into the Cyrodiil zone? First time you sieged? First time you fought on Alessia bridge? Its not just nostalgia -- ESO, when it works, is amazing and fun.

But rather than work on the parts of the game that were actually good, ZoS doubled down on the parts that were bad. You know what the result is? PvE is still bad -- actually, its basically a joke. There is zero PvE endgame (lol grind VMA). The vet dungeons are laughable (except ICP which is just annoying). The vet zones went from challenging (good!) to face-to-keyboard easy (why?!).

And yet! And yet! PvP is still fun. AND THEY HAVEN'T ADDED A DAMN THING! In fact, all they have done is remove ***! Imagine if their effort had been spent on PvP additions. Imagine if IC was actually the PvP zone it should have been -- accessible via the broken bridges in the center of Cyrodiil. With capturable zones, and loot that mattered. Imagine if the Sewers was a sneaky way to enter enemy territory. Imagine if you could sneak scrolls through the sewers. Imagine if Bruma, Chey, Cropsford, etc. were capturable and provided a bonus to your faction. Imagine if PvP raids had been capped at 8 the minute lag started showing up in 1.3. Imagine if they had actually continued to update the PvP gear sets. Imagine if class balance had been a continually process rather than once per six months.

Anyway, this rant is making me tired. CU later.

Yeah. Cyrodil was the one thing they had here that could have been great.

Oh well. BDO for now and CU later as well.

technohic

Animal_Mother wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

SeptimusDova wrote: »

Ill stick around long enough to turn the lights off and lock the door to our House and then I will CU around King Arthur's place. I hope the Abbot has good beer.

From what I read, they got an AOE beer spell that CC's

Is it called Blinding Draughts?

Hmm. Wonder if there is impale ale.

Khivas_Carrick

Guys, come play The Division with me. As long that idiot Wrobel stays on this game, it's never going to be fun for us, so let it die. Guy's a sick sociopath that's toying with us, so let's go enjoy ourselves elsewhere.

Khivas_Carrick

Also, the above post is probably going to get deleted, like the several other posts staining Wrobel's name when I insulted him.

Sad when they'll react to that but no Dev response to actual game issues.

bowmanz607

I have always maintained that this game will be in beta until TG/DB release. a TES game is not complete w/o the two. We have been playing beta for 2 years+. I give them until DB release before i start flipping out. On a side note, i find the lack of skills in DB/TG concerning. they should not be treated differently then mage/fighters. anyway i digress.

Ffastyl

@bowmanz607 The reasons cited for not including non quality of life skill lines for both guilds is the lack of balance within the current skills. They do not want to add more when what they have is already unsound.

Zheg

Ffastyl wrote: »

@bowmanz607 The reasons cited for not including non quality of life skill lines for both guilds is the lack of balance within the current skills. They do not want to add more when what they have is already unsound.

To paraphrase, after 2.5+ years, Wrobel has been unable to balance a few dozen skills and anything on top of that would tax the already nonexistent capabilities to balance them.

bowmanz607

Ffastyl wrote: »

@bowmanz607 The reasons cited for not including non quality of life skill lines for both guilds is the lack of balance within the current skills. They do not want to add more when what they have is already unsound.

Yup I understand that. My opinion...don't release the DB/TG because they are not ready. No skills means no go. They are simply trying to force content out for the sake of forcing it out. It is a slap in the face to treat these guilds differently. I would argue that they are the 2 most popular guilds in TES games too. Zos is discriminating against two factions. That is just rude.

Razorback174

Zheg wrote: »

Ffastyl wrote: »

@bowmanz607 The reasons cited for not including non quality of life skill lines for both guilds is the lack of balance within the current skills. They do not want to add more when what they have is already unsound.

To paraphrase, after 2.5+ years, Wrobel has been unable to balance a few dozen skills and anything on top of that would tax the already nonexistent capabilities to balance them.

I really didn't want to be quick to antagonize this Wrobel character. That said, listening to his "vision" for the Templar class changed that instantly. I can't tell if it's pure ignorance or arrogance at this point.


Enjoy your "templar house."

On a related note, was he the guy in charge when they nerfed stamina regen while blocking? I'd like to know if he's the one who keeps coming up with these utterly insane, sweeping changes. This is not how you properly balance a game!!!

Zheg

Razorback174 wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Ffastyl wrote: »

@bowmanz607 The reasons cited for not including non quality of life skill lines for both guilds is the lack of balance within the current skills. They do not want to add more when what they have is already unsound.

To paraphrase, after 2.5+ years, Wrobel has been unable to balance a few dozen skills and anything on top of that would tax the already nonexistent capabilities to balance them.

I really didn't want to be quick to antagonize this Wrobel character. That said, listening to his "vision" for the Templar class changed that instantly. I can't tell if it's pure ignorance or arrogance at this point.


Enjoy your "templar house."

On a related note, was he the guy in charge when they nerfed stamina regen while blocking? I'd like to know if he's the one who keeps coming up with these utterly insane, sweeping changes. This is not how you properly balance a game!!!

He's in charge of all combat (all skills, all passives) and all itemization (every single set in the game). He's also in charge of something relating to dungeons or whatever, but basically, if it's a balance issue, it's all him. ZOS never should have structured the teams that way; for all of my disdain of Wrobel's work, I will give him credit at least for that, the company never should have put him in charge of THAT many aspects of the game, nor any single person.

bowmanz607

Zheg wrote: »

Razorback174 wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Ffastyl wrote: »

@bowmanz607 The reasons cited for not including non quality of life skill lines for both guilds is the lack of balance within the current skills. They do not want to add more when what they have is already unsound.

To paraphrase, after 2.5+ years, Wrobel has been unable to balance a few dozen skills and anything on top of that would tax the already nonexistent capabilities to balance them.

I really didn't want to be quick to antagonize this Wrobel character. That said, listening to his "vision" for the Templar class changed that instantly. I can't tell if it's pure ignorance or arrogance at this point.


Enjoy your "templar house."

On a related note, was he the guy in charge when they nerfed stamina regen while blocking? I'd like to know if he's the one who keeps coming up with these utterly insane, sweeping changes. This is not how you properly balance a game!!!

He's in charge of all combat (all skills, all passives) and all itemization (every single set in the game). He's also in charge of something relating to dungeons or whatever, but basically, if it's a balance issue, it's all him. ZOS never should have structured the teams that way; for all of my disdain of Wrobel's work, I will give him credit at least for that, the company never should have put him in charge of THAT many aspects of the game, nor any single person.

You guys realize he is part of a team right? It is not like he is a dictator for balance. It was a team effort. He 8s simply the face of it.

Zheg

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Razorback174 wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Ffastyl wrote: »

@bowmanz607 The reasons cited for not including non quality of life skill lines for both guilds is the lack of balance within the current skills. They do not want to add more when what they have is already unsound.

To paraphrase, after 2.5+ years, Wrobel has been unable to balance a few dozen skills and anything on top of that would tax the already nonexistent capabilities to balance them.

I really didn't want to be quick to antagonize this Wrobel character. That said, listening to his "vision" for the Templar class changed that instantly. I can't tell if it's pure ignorance or arrogance at this point.


Enjoy your "templar house."

On a related note, was he the guy in charge when they nerfed stamina regen while blocking? I'd like to know if he's the one who keeps coming up with these utterly insane, sweeping changes. This is not how you properly balance a game!!!

He's in charge of all combat (all skills, all passives) and all itemization (every single set in the game). He's also in charge of something relating to dungeons or whatever, but basically, if it's a balance issue, it's all him. ZOS never should have structured the teams that way; for all of my disdain of Wrobel's work, I will give him credit at least for that, the company never should have put him in charge of THAT many aspects of the game, nor any single person.

You guys realize he is part of a team right? It is not like he is a dictator for balance. It was a team effort. He 8s simply the face of it.

He's the LEAD. In almost every team that means he makes the final call, and/or drives the initial battle-plan. It's a frightening thought to think that multiple people are as clueless as you'd need to be to produce what they've given us in the TG patch, so I'll just pretend like it's wrobel in dictatorial form.

Solariken

Ffastyl wrote: »

@bowmanz607 The reasons cited for not including non quality of life skill lines for both guilds is the lack of balance within the current skills. They do not want to add more when what they have is already unsound.

Yet any attempts at tweaking skills have been INCREDIBLY sparse over the last two years, and the changes we have seen are just aweful design decisions, from stam regen while blocking to the gap closer stun, removing Blinding Flashes to replace with a busted execute, Battle Spirit causing multiple levels of nerfs to the Templar toolset, etc. These guys have no idea what they are doing and I blame @ZOS_MattFiror as much as anyone because he lets this crap happen and doesn't provide the leadership this game deserves.

James-Wayne

At 74 pages long can someone summarize what has actually happen since page 5?

AJ_1988

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

Also, the above post is probably going to get deleted, like the several other posts staining Wrobel's name when I insulted him.

Sad when they'll react to that but no Dev response to actual game issues.

Yeah they react to criticism but don't react to anything that will help the game. Robots much?? I've gone on a rage before and been threatened with being banned but then I call them every name under the sun and I don't hear a peep lol. I'm still waiting to be banned from last year haha. Maybe they are too busy designing houses for Templars with only a basement for us to live in. Pretty soon all we can do is wave our hand and that's not even to heal we can only say hello and bend over and take it.

AJ_1988

James-Wayne wrote: »

At 74 pages long can someone summarize what has actually happen since page 5?

To put it simply, nothing. Any attempt to get devs to communicate has failed.

SeptimusDova

bowzman good observation tg and db should have trees to them as well I think they are going to use the legerdemain excuse on this dlc.

I thought after the IC debacle that ZOS would learn from the lesson.

And as others have already written. Feedback is RX only they will not Transmit to us anything. We have been Wrobelized and I do not think that there is any recovery from that DOT.

Cadbury

Razorback174 wrote: »

Enjoy your "templar house."

He's just a Templar, and he's on fire
Hotter than a fantasy, lonely like a highway
He's living in a world, and it's on fire
Feeling the catastrophe, but he knows he can fly away

Oh, he got both feet on the ground
And he's burning it down
Oh, he got his head in the clouds
And he's not backing down

This Templar is on fire
This Templar is on fire
He's walking on fire
This Templar is on fire

AJ_1988

SeptimusDova wrote: »

bowzman good observation tg and db should have trees to them as well I think they are going to use the legerdemain excuse on this dlc.

I thought after the IC debacle that ZOS would learn from the lesson.

And as others have already written. Feedback is RX only they will not Transmit to us anything. We have been Wrobelized and I do not think that there is any recovery from that DOT.

Who says big corporations don't create diseases lol. After contracting wrobel it's a slow painful death lol

Joy_Division

James-Wayne wrote: »

At 74 pages long can someone summarize what has actually happen since page 5?

Disappointment. Unfulfilled Expectations. Dashed Hopes. Yearning for better games. Lots of funny house GIFs.

bowmanz607

Zheg wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Razorback174 wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Ffastyl wrote: »

@bowmanz607 The reasons cited for not including non quality of life skill lines for both guilds is the lack of balance within the current skills. They do not want to add more when what they have is already unsound.

To paraphrase, after 2.5+ years, Wrobel has been unable to balance a few dozen skills and anything on top of that would tax the already nonexistent capabilities to balance them.

I really didn't want to be quick to antagonize this Wrobel character. That said, listening to his "vision" for the Templar class changed that instantly. I can't tell if it's pure ignorance or arrogance at this point.


Enjoy your "templar house."

On a related note, was he the guy in charge when they nerfed stamina regen while blocking? I'd like to know if he's the one who keeps coming up with these utterly insane, sweeping changes. This is not how you properly balance a game!!!

He's in charge of all combat (all skills, all passives) and all itemization (every single set in the game). He's also in charge of something relating to dungeons or whatever, but basically, if it's a balance issue, it's all him. ZOS never should have structured the teams that way; for all of my disdain of Wrobel's work, I will give him credit at least for that, the company never should have put him in charge of THAT many aspects of the game, nor any single person.

You guys realize he is part of a team right? It is not like he is a dictator for balance. It was a team effort. He 8s simply the face of it.

He's the LEAD. In almost every team that means he makes the final call, and/or drives the initial battle-plan. It's a frightening thought to think that multiple people are as clueless as you'd need to be to produce what they've given us in the TG patch, so I'll just pretend like it's wrobel in dictatorial form.

Ya I know. But calling for Wrobel's head is just leading to the next person up from that team of people that did this in the first place. I actually respect them for sticking to their guns. They will see this vision through. I can at least respect someone who sticks to what they believe in.. I think the "protect this house" vision can work. Just not in the way they approach it. Templar needs better synergy within their class skills. Imo, we can expect a templar overhaul in next patch like the mag dk got this patch. Personally, I am fine with that. Why? Because as I stated before, this game is still in beta. I think templar overhaul with some tweaks to other class skills and some weapon skills will be in for DB. I think after that, the game will be damn close to where it should have been a year ago. Afterall, this is the best balanced patch we have seen and nothing can get worse then live.

All that said, if this game is not where it is supposed to be by DB, then I have zero faith it will happen.

Mr_Nobody

Ishammael wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Don't blame you.

The time I did devote on these forums and testing stuff will be dedicated to the Camelot Unchained Beta. ESO still has amazing potential as its no cooldown and the fluidity of its combat (well, for the other three classes that can move and attack at the same time) are excellent foundational principles. It's unfortunate the developers are unwilling to listen to their customer base on how best to tap that potential.

I get emails 2-3x per week from MJ. They live stream. There is a set of "principles" upon which the game is created.
Yeah its in a rough state right now, but hell, they are doing everything right.

ESO has been out for two years now. It had the potential to be the best RvR MMO ever made. The setting, graphics, action combat, class dynamics, and flexibility all but guaranteed it. Unfortunately, we the players have taken first seat to the utter squandering of that baseline. In fact, it is a testament to the base game that we are still playing today!

Does anyone recall all of the launch-day reviews of ESO? I do. Not one had a good thing to say about a single bit of the PvE content. Every, single one praised the PvP -- and it was almost totally messed up at launch. By god, do you remember the first time you rode out into the Cyrodiil zone? First time you sieged? First time you fought on Alessia bridge? Its not just nostalgia -- ESO, when it works, is amazing and fun.

But rather than work on the parts of the game that were actually good, ZoS doubled down on the parts that were bad. You know what the result is? PvE is still bad -- actually, its basically a joke. There is zero PvE endgame (lol grind VMA). The vet dungeons are laughable (except ICP which is just annoying). The vet zones went from challenging (good!) to face-to-keyboard easy (why?!).

And yet! And yet! PvP is still fun. AND THEY HAVEN'T ADDED A DAMN THING! In fact, all they have done is remove ***! Imagine if their effort had been spent on PvP additions. Imagine if IC was actually the PvP zone it should have been -- accessible via the broken bridges in the center of Cyrodiil. With capturable zones, and loot that mattered. Imagine if the Sewers was a sneaky way to enter enemy territory. Imagine if you could sneak scrolls through the sewers. Imagine if Bruma, Chey, Cropsford, etc. were capturable and provided a bonus to your faction. Imagine if PvP raids had been capped at 8 the minute lag started showing up in 1.3. Imagine if they had actually continued to update the PvP gear sets. Imagine if class balance had been a continually process rather than once per six months.

Anyway, this rant is making me tired. CU later.

DAoC was and most likely still is the best RvR game ever made. MJ created it and then killed for a few years during which it lost majority of the player base (ToA expansion, aka pve). He now surely knows that asking people to endlessly PvE in order to compete in PvP makes no sense. That's why CU will steal a lot of the players from many currently popular PvP mmos out there. If DAoC, at the current more than 15 year old state had the graphics of ESO, it would be the king of the hill out of all PvP related games.

Prepare your anu**s Mids & Albs, we, Dem Hibbies, are coming!

Idinuse

bowmanz607 wrote: »

I have always maintained that this game will be in beta until TG/DB release. a TES game is not complete w/o the two. We have been playing beta for 2 years+. I give them until DB release before i start flipping out. On a side note, i find the lack of skills in DB/TG concerning. they should not be treated differently then mage/fighters. anyway i digress.

My theory is that a more complete TG skill line would inevitably tap in to the NB skills, and if I recall it correctly, one (or more) of the developers (xD) is playing NB and so far the favoritism has been blatant imo.

Rather gimp the entire game than weaken the position of NBs perhaps? Just a thought.