Official Feedback Thread for Templars

Mr_Nobody

Cinbri wrote: »

Dreddlock- wrote: »

Dyride wrote: »

Dyride wrote: »

Am I wrong in thinking that Restoring Focus is now a huge buff skill for tanking or stamplar PVP?

I don't have the PTS downloaded yet, but the changes for Focused Healing to give Major Mending should effect stamina heals.

So Restoring Focus will give Major Mending+Minor Vitality+ Major Resolve/Ward+Minor Protection. Couple that with Empowering Sweep+Minor Maim from Deep Slash+Defensive Stance and you have incredible mitigation.

Just to put that in perspective, that is +30% Healing done +8% Healing received and +16% mitigation from one skill (Restoring Focus).

minor protection is 8% not 16%. But I asked for this particual buff for this particular skill and since we got it, I will finally gladly respec back to Restoring Focus (it is templar version of Chocking Talons, but more effective since it apply buff on you, not cleansable debuff on enemy)... till i get new pvp sets Coz this morph make you drop only templar mana sustain skill - Channeled Focus. So, ZOS must buff Restoring Spirit passive.
And Focused Healing now 25% healing done, not 30%.
Also in theory if you use Bloodspawn and Tava = Empowering Sweep 10 sec mitigation = 60 ult + 15 ult from bloodspawn = 75 ult when previous Sweep expired, since Sweep costs 72 ult - instant Sweep and mitigation. But till Sweep get Major Protection as buff, it won't be that effective (or maybe grant this buff to Warden set, that will be even more great).

I suggest you do some testing, especially combined with Cyrodiils light. I have, and I plan on running high mitigation build. As for a little spoiler, an almost 4k spell dmg sorc hit me for 3.5k proc CFs while I was jabbing/using 1.2sec healing ritual. Works wonders, especially in this upcoming high burst damage meta.

Mark my words young Templars, you will see whats coming!

EgoRush

Just a few updates based on recent PTS tests:

1. Dark Flare initial cast: still slower than the tool tip mentions
2. Toppling Charge: still breaks occasionally locking out abilities or simply not casting at all (please prioritise fixing abilities before making changes such as going through dodge roll, if this ability can't be fixed then scrap it for something else like a magic damage version of Boundless Storm)

As for healing nerf to BoL. I do think it was unnecessary. We already had the Major Mending buff to BoL if we were in Extended Ritual/Rune Focus from the previous passive giving 30% extra healing. Now we only get 25% extra healing due to the change to Major Mending (I have no problem with this, btw, it makes sense why you changed it to 25%), but not we're hitting 1 fewer target. The sorcerer's Twilight does better healing now. I'm all for class balance, but when you give one class an entire tree dedicated to healing, Templar should always come out on top as healers. BoL still has great utility and I have continued to spam it like crazy in the new trial on PTS, but imo it would've been better to reduce the healing of BoL rather than remove a target. Keep it aligned with the sorcerer Twilight of healing ourselves and 2 others, but reduce the healing. Otherwise this morph practically loses it's worth over Honor the Dead and is largely the same as Ward Ally available to everyone using a Restoration Staff.

Lyrander

BalticBlues wrote: »

ESO Templar 2014 - not the fastest, but robust and fit for all terrains


ESO Templar 2015 - redesign for better PvP balance


ESO Templar 2016 - redesign for best PvP balance


ZOS, you really think it will be fun driving PUGS through dungeons with the new car?
What happens in vet dungeons like Darkshade with the bosses toxic air?
25% less receivers for BOL? The blame will be on us drivers, not on the crippled car...

Sorry, I feel betrayed. The 2016 Templar is not anymore what was sold to us.
Therefore, ZOS, please offer all Templars a free class change. Enough is enough.

I always loved playing my argonian magicka templar. Even though it was always crippled.

Never thought id say that but:

Im on board with a class change.

Ashamray

EgoRush wrote: »

Just a few updates based on recent PTS tests:

1. Dark Flare initial cast: still slower than the tool tip mentions

I was really surprised when I found out that 1,3 sec cast summon sorc's pet is faster than 1.1 Flare.
Templars just slower by design, you know.

Cinbri

Mumyo wrote: »

Akinos wrote: »

blabafat wrote: »

I think some people are over exaggerating Templar.

It's not at all gutted - especially magicka templar. It's very powerful next patch

It's not all gutted, you are right. However, you know as well as I do that templars are at the bottom of the food chain when it comes to pretty much everything, even healing now. If somebody pistols the whole other team in an FPS game, is it because of the players skill? Or because his weapon is good?

Templars are powerful yes....in the right hands. It takes SO MUCH MORE effort, thought, skill and patience to play a templar well compared to nightblades and sorcs. Imagine the carnage we would unleash if you or I rerolled nightblade or sorc. We could probably face palm our keyboards as a nightblade / sorc and still win more 1vX fights then we do on our templars.

Templars shouldn't have to try so hard to be competitive. This game only has 4 classes, there is no excuse for ESO not being more balanced. I've played games with over 30 playable classes that have more balance and sense then this game, @FENGRUSH knows what game I'm referring to. If ESO classes had a rating system like some fighting games do, I'm sure templars and probably DK's, would be rated 5 stars for difficulty, while the other two classes would be 1 or 2 stars and designed for beginners.

I have all the respect in the world for you @blabafat . I just can't agree with you or anybody else that says or even suggests that templars are balanced and don't have any problems.

I'm gonna go back to my house now, aka solitary confinement.

I can just agree with that, played my stamina templar since release and i got myself a v16 nb toon.

5minutes of playing with my templars gear and i did a 1v5 without even really knowing what im doing.
I was also on the pts and made a template sorc, slotted stuff for 5 minutes and fought a very experienced templar and managed to kill him.

Thats all there is to say... it is easy in comparison.
But on the other hand i think templar indeed got some pretty buffs and will be surely stronger with the coming patch. The question is : What about the other classes, how strong will they be. We will find out as soon as it goes live. Right now, i think (as a stamplar) i'll be fine since i allready kick ass and see many improvements coming. Im only afraid of the crazy burst builds that may come along.

I agree that stamplars got some nice buffs and thats why we will see much more of them. And sadly i didn't see a single buff for templars that will make magicka templars competitive in open-world pvp again --> another reason why stamplars number will increase.

Dreddlock-

Cinbri wrote: »

Dreddlock- wrote: »

Dyride wrote: »

Dyride wrote: »

Am I wrong in thinking that Restoring Focus is now a huge buff skill for tanking or stamplar PVP?

I don't have the PTS downloaded yet, but the changes for Focused Healing to give Major Mending should effect stamina heals.

So Restoring Focus will give Major Mending+Minor Vitality+ Major Resolve/Ward+Minor Protection. Couple that with Empowering Sweep+Minor Maim from Deep Slash+Defensive Stance and you have incredible mitigation.

Just to put that in perspective, that is +30% Healing done +8% Healing received and +16% mitigation from one skill (Restoring Focus).

minor protection is 8% not 16%. But I asked for this particual buff for this particular skill and since we got it, I will finally gladly respec back to Restoring Focus (it is templar version of Chocking Talons, but more effective since it apply buff on you, not cleansable debuff on enemy)... till i get new pvp sets Coz this morph make you drop only templar mana sustain skill - Channeled Focus. So, ZOS must buff Restoring Spirit passive.
And Focused Healing now 25% healing done, not 30%.
Also in theory if you use Bloodspawn and Tava = Empowering Sweep 10 sec mitigation = 60 ult + 15 ult from bloodspawn = 75 ult when previous Sweep expired, since Sweep costs 72 ult - instant Sweep and mitigation. But till Sweep get Major Protection as buff, it won't be that effective (or maybe grant this buff to Warden set, that will be even more great).

Ummmm, I think that you ment to respond to @Dyride because I never mentioned minor protections %. Good reply though thanks.

FENGRUSH

Cinbri wrote: »

Mumyo wrote: »

Akinos wrote: »

blabafat wrote: »

I think some people are over exaggerating Templar.

It's not at all gutted - especially magicka templar. It's very powerful next patch

It's not all gutted, you are right. However, you know as well as I do that templars are at the bottom of the food chain when it comes to pretty much everything, even healing now. If somebody pistols the whole other team in an FPS game, is it because of the players skill? Or because his weapon is good?

Templars are powerful yes....in the right hands. It takes SO MUCH MORE effort, thought, skill and patience to play a templar well compared to nightblades and sorcs. Imagine the carnage we would unleash if you or I rerolled nightblade or sorc. We could probably face palm our keyboards as a nightblade / sorc and still win more 1vX fights then we do on our templars.

Templars shouldn't have to try so hard to be competitive. This game only has 4 classes, there is no excuse for ESO not being more balanced. I've played games with over 30 playable classes that have more balance and sense then this game, @FENGRUSH knows what game I'm referring to. If ESO classes had a rating system like some fighting games do, I'm sure templars and probably DK's, would be rated 5 stars for difficulty, while the other two classes would be 1 or 2 stars and designed for beginners.

I have all the respect in the world for you @blabafat . I just can't agree with you or anybody else that says or even suggests that templars are balanced and don't have any problems.

I'm gonna go back to my house now, aka solitary confinement.

I can just agree with that, played my stamina templar since release and i got myself a v16 nb toon.

5minutes of playing with my templars gear and i did a 1v5 without even really knowing what im doing.
I was also on the pts and made a template sorc, slotted stuff for 5 minutes and fought a very experienced templar and managed to kill him.

Thats all there is to say... it is easy in comparison.
But on the other hand i think templar indeed got some pretty buffs and will be surely stronger with the coming patch. The question is : What about the other classes, how strong will they be. We will find out as soon as it goes live. Right now, i think (as a stamplar) i'll be fine since i allready kick ass and see many improvements coming. Im only afraid of the crazy burst builds that may come along.

I agree that stamplars got some nice buffs and thats why we will see much more of them. And sadly i didn't see a single buff for templars that will make magicka templars competitive in open-world pvp again --> another reason why stamplars number will increase.

Why would anyone play stamplar over magicka templar next patch with det + scaling ult + CP allocation in PVP?

Dyride

@Cinbri,

It comes out to 16% because you get Minor Protection+Major Armor/Spell Resist. The Major armor and spell resist buffs give 8% mitigation (5250 * (1% mitigation/ 650 armor)= 8.07% mitigation), though you could argue it isn't as good as a flat mitigation because it can be penetrated.

Otherwise I think you are correct on all points, Channeled Focus would still be better for the sustain it provides. I use Channeled Focus for magicka return while using Mist for example.

FENGRUSH

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

eliisra wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

Francescolg wrote: »

This is how other people, here: Sypher, are flattered by the incoming nurf to Templars, watch 01:32:33...

https://youtu.be/iwNDGTYG3ZE

..no, he's not biased at all! This video is a perfect example to explain how the combat-team is failing to treat the class in a balanced manner..! And to show, that most players don't even understand the class, when later on he is "shocked" about the synergy-heal on Cleansing Ritual.. lol

He's hurting the game so much and it feels like devs are fixing the game around him, pretty sad actually that a game that has "THE ELDER SCROLLS" in it's name is being balanced around a streamer who averges only 700 views in twitch ESO in a nutshell.

I have to agree. The video is pretty disgusting. He even complains about the buff to a synergy because he has so little understanding of the class that he doesn't know it is a synergy. I wonder if the patch next week will include a nerf to the purify synergy. It's kind of disappointing that the devs are actually listening to this guy.

I picture Wrobel watching this video desperately hoping for approval.

Yeah seriously, I almost puked in my mouth watching that.

He also claims to play "all classes". Even though his templar is like VR1 retired something and he doesn't even know what a Purify synergy is. Why would he tho? He only plays mag sorc and stamblade, because currently the strongest(while likely dreaming of 1.5 DK back).

I'm not really shocked that a guy like Sypher, that only plays fotm class/build combinations, for least resistance and easy wins, sits there and gloats when the individually weakest PvP class gets nerfed. More easy kills for him is better. He doesn't play the class, so why care?

The terrifying thing here is rather that devs wants to be hipster and seeks approval from low- to mid ranked streamers(most gamers never even heard of much less watched) over the entire templar community.

Ive heard him say stam templars are fine and not as bad as people think, then he can't even kill 2-3 guys on his templar while he can take on more than 10 on his DK, sorc or NB....

Just have to point the finger at someone huh? You think Zenimax bases their decisions on a guy like me who literally only plays one aspect of the game? (Solo pvp)

Give me a break. I give my OPINIONS on changes, my opinions are just that.. Opinions.

Thing is, people who watch your stream will do and think the same way that you do. Before you and @Fengrush started complaining about breath of life there was pretty much 0 complains on the forums, as soon as you guys started pointing fingers at templars then suddenly all those who watch you started to think the same way.

This is actually not a change with BOL - its a change with the patch. When you could burst people from full to nothing in 1.6 BOL wasnt relevant. When they changed the meta to have the longest TTK with easy catchup CP for everyone - you have a lot of people able to flood BOLs.

The problem is the resource management, TTK, and numbers accentuate the issue indefinitely. Ive talked about this when trying to review the game at a higher level - if your takeaway is 'FENGRUSH say nerf BOL' then I dont know what to tell you. I dont advocate for direct nerfs on BOL, and the change they made wont even fix the issues I struggled with 1vXing in this game.

So did something change? Yes. Did ZOS approach the wrong solution by not properly identifying the problem? Yea - in my opinion they did. This has been happening for a long time. Welcome to a patch where we have det doing twice as much, still hitting as hard as ults, vicious set to combo with it, rather than rebalance without AOE caps. Its hard to say where to start, but I give my opinion on the game. Theres only one class that actually needed some kind of adjusting in the 'nerf' sense this patch - nightblade. Other issues were mechanics (EI: Sorc shields very strong) - not a class nerf required, mechanics fix needed.

Hope this helps clarify the black and white perspective being branded on 'streamers' for talking about issues the game clearly does have. At the end of the day, ZOS makes the decision though.

Ishammael

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

Thing is, people who watch your stream will do and think the same way that you do. Before you and @Fengrush started complaining about breath of life there was pretty much 0 complains on the forums, as soon as you guys started pointing fingers at templars then suddenly all those who watch you started to think the same way.

This is completely and utterly false. PvP play changed significantly with the 50% battle spirit (de)buff launched as part of IC. Coupled with increased stats due to v16 gear and higher CPs levels across the board BoL became too strong in the environment in which it existed. Regardless, the skill in and of itself wasn't really the issue. Unfortunately this is the way of things for ZoS balancing: rather than address core issues (e.g., out of control damage, infinite resources, shields, etc.) they slap idiotic band-aids across symptoms.

In either case, blaming Fengrush or any streaming for balance changes you disagree with is ridiculous. He is not a developer nor is he part of the ZoS decision making process!

FENGRUSH wrote: »

This is actually not a change with BOL - its a change with the skill. When you could burst people from full to nothing in 1.6 BOL wasnt relevant. When they changed the meta to have the longest TTK with easy catchup CP for everyone - you have a lot of people able to flood BOLs.

The problem is the resource management, TTK, and numbers accentuate the issue indefinitely. Ive talked about this when trying to review the game at a higher level - if your takeaway is 'FENGRUSH say nerf BOL' then I dont know what to tell you. I dont advocate for direct nerfs on BOL, and the change they made wont even fix the issues I struggled with 1vXing in this game.

Agreed with Fengrush here.

timidobserver

Dreddlock- wrote: »

@Sypherpk didn't even know it the removal of knockback was a good thing or a bad thing on his 2.3.0 patch note video. The second he said that was the second I began to seriously doubt his Templar experience.

But...butt... He posted 4 videos.

Tankqull

blabafat wrote: »

I think some people are over exaggerating Templar.

It's not at all gutted - especially magicka templar. It's very powerful next patch

i compleatly agree, the BoL change wont be the end of the world, but the mindset behind the behaviour towards temps by ZOS indicated by these changes and the ignorence is.


i can understand why people(vocalized by fengrush among others) blame BoL in pvp for being to strong.
but when you look slightly behind the curtains of blood infront of your eyes you realize that you are able to kill a "heal"templar in a 1vs1 situation within 10-15 sec, so where has that all mighty BoL been gone?

the actual problem with BoL (especially with multiple casters) is the efficency disparity between target locking and smart healing. the more enemys are around you the less likely will you hit the target you attacked a second before even though you aimed at him perfectly. while every smart heal innitiated will reach your target.
its is really rediculous when your char jumps backwards when casting an ambush because an enemy player moved behind you back inbetween the camera and the target reticle, even though another char was glowing bright reddish with your reticled glued to it.
so true issue is the lack of a hard lock to actually keep your target attacked(gone since 1.5 where they changed the way tab-targeting worked - and in 1.6 they changed the animation to match the former change) and smart heals affecting the lowest char for sure, on top iced by the lack of LoS checks for heals to stay in safetiness. the lack of los will get even worse with magica sorcs becomming the most efficient healer in the next patch(when they can keep their pets alive - wich isnt that hard when they are out of reach)...

eserras7b16_ESO

The problem is not templar not being able to put off a fight, problem is some of our skills are poorly designed or just not strong enough, wich makes them useless.

blabafat

@SemiD4rkness @Hymzir

Yes; I agree that a skilled s/b stam DK is extremely hard to fight in live as a magicka templar - no doubt. Sribes beats me more than I beat him 100% true.

However, in the next update, it's WAYY EASIER to fight these kind of builds because of the changes to CP, sweeps, vampires bane, and proxy det. With the CP system you can mitigate so much damage while buffing your own. As to what was buffed:

Radiant Destruction - No longer dodgeable
Dark Flare - 12% additional damage
Vampires Bane - Everything about this skill was buffed. It's in general stronger - longer duration, damage, works on shields/block
Jabs - Snares for 70%
Healing passive applies major mending now - obvious buff
Crescent sweep - 66% additional damage now (Though I have yet to compare this to dawnbreaker. I just need to wait on live patch)


Those are the significant changes I saw. Radiant destruction not being dodgeable is HUGE. It hits extremely hard (Easily 10k plus ticks). As for channeled focus, on the live patch, you get the magicka recovery for 18 seconds, whether or not you are in the circle. On PTS, I haven't tested it after they made another change to it.

timidobserver

blabafat wrote: »

As for channeled focus, on the live patch, you get the magicka recovery for 18 seconds, whether or not you are in the circle. On PTS, I haven't tested it after they made another change to it.

I have tested this on the pts. While advertised as a buff, the magicka recovery was nerfed to 8 seconds.

Akinos

timidobserver wrote: »

blabafat wrote: »

As for channeled focus, on the live patch, you get the magicka recovery for 18 seconds, whether or not you are in the circle. On PTS, I haven't tested it after they made another change to it.

I have tested this on the pts. While advertised as a buff, the magicka recovery was nerfed to 8 seconds.

Really? They had to go and nerf that too? I just....can't even right now.

Cinbri

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Mumyo wrote: »

Akinos wrote: »

blabafat wrote: »

I think some people are over exaggerating Templar.

It's not at all gutted - especially magicka templar. It's very powerful next patch

It's not all gutted, you are right. However, you know as well as I do that templars are at the bottom of the food chain when it comes to pretty much everything, even healing now. If somebody pistols the whole other team in an FPS game, is it because of the players skill? Or because his weapon is good?

Templars are powerful yes....in the right hands. It takes SO MUCH MORE effort, thought, skill and patience to play a templar well compared to nightblades and sorcs. Imagine the carnage we would unleash if you or I rerolled nightblade or sorc. We could probably face palm our keyboards as a nightblade / sorc and still win more 1vX fights then we do on our templars.

Templars shouldn't have to try so hard to be competitive. This game only has 4 classes, there is no excuse for ESO not being more balanced. I've played games with over 30 playable classes that have more balance and sense then this game, @FENGRUSH knows what game I'm referring to. If ESO classes had a rating system like some fighting games do, I'm sure templars and probably DK's, would be rated 5 stars for difficulty, while the other two classes would be 1 or 2 stars and designed for beginners.

I have all the respect in the world for you @blabafat . I just can't agree with you or anybody else that says or even suggests that templars are balanced and don't have any problems.

I'm gonna go back to my house now, aka solitary confinement.

I can just agree with that, played my stamina templar since release and i got myself a v16 nb toon.

5minutes of playing with my templars gear and i did a 1v5 without even really knowing what im doing.
I was also on the pts and made a template sorc, slotted stuff for 5 minutes and fought a very experienced templar and managed to kill him.

Thats all there is to say... it is easy in comparison.
But on the other hand i think templar indeed got some pretty buffs and will be surely stronger with the coming patch. The question is : What about the other classes, how strong will they be. We will find out as soon as it goes live. Right now, i think (as a stamplar) i'll be fine since i allready kick ass and see many improvements coming. Im only afraid of the crazy burst builds that may come along.

I agree that stamplars got some nice buffs and thats why we will see much more of them. And sadly i didn't see a single buff for templars that will make magicka templars competitive in open-world pvp again --> another reason why stamplars number will increase.

Why would anyone play stamplar over magicka templar next patch with det + scaling ult + CP allocation in PVP?

Stamplars going against Wrobel's vision of templar and thus succesfull:
1. Stamina gapclosers have more worth effects than any morph of templar Charge. And none of them suffer from problem I showed here as hard as templar Charge:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_a9gKVP3UE

2. Stamplar have access to speedbuffs that can be used for escape. It cover worst templar weakness.
3. With snb stamplars can tank but not bound by channeled templar dd skills, even can use animation canceling to increase dps.
4. AvA nerfs and nerfs for templar skills not affecting stamplar, but changes(like Focused Healing) made him stronger.
5. Templar don't have solid class defense(healing is not defense), thats why stamplar won't suffer from lack of class defensive skills but can spam dodges unlike magicka templar.
So maybe for zerging magicka templar is good but for solo/2vX stamplar is best coz it cover all templar weaknesses. (Also sorry if something unclear, english is not my native language)
@blabafat While those changes are good, they in fact are mostly fixes of broken skills. Like DK got revamped Flame Talons and with revamp of CP system it is more than 25% damage buff to aoe skill, or sorc's useless mine morph transformed into ranged aoe root, thats what i call buffs.
Channeled Focus - techically it "fixed" but if you use it for full duration it it is technically buff coz with new 8 sec mechanic after CF duration expired, 8 sec buff of mana return still proccing = 1920 more mana return from this morph.
Crescent Sweep - thats my test vs pack of Undead:

Vs Undead in PvE Crescent+Radial+Burning Light procs loosing only ~12% damage on meter in compare with Dawnbreaker(125906 vs 101885), but since in PvP people are mostly not vampires, Crescent will be much more usefull now. Shooting Star+Crescent combo will hit harder when outnumbered now
Btw i maybe wrong but my tests showed that execute bonus now working vs damage shields.

Joy_Division

blabafat wrote: »

I think some people are over exaggerating Templar.

It's not at all gutted - especially magicka templar. It's very powerful next patch

I don't think anyone in this threads disputes templars are going to do more DPS and have a easier time putting that damage onto target. Players who play in the way that you do are going to feel that power.

But the unfulfilled expectations and hopes in this thread are from people who do not necessary want to hunt down and kill other players in Cyrodiil or DPS in the new PvE trial.

david.haypreub18_ESO

Sypher wrote: »

I didn't post the videos to prove templars are top notch. I know they are not. I just posted them to show that I have enough experience with the class to at least talk about the class.

Well at least that is one thing I hope we can all agree on: Templars right now are not 'top notch' in PvP compared to the other classes. I hope ZOS listens to that as much as the call for nerfs.

Hymzir

blabafat wrote: »

@SemiD4rkness @Hymzir

Yes; I agree that a skilled s/b stam DK is extremely hard to fight in live as a magicka templar - no doubt. Sribes beats me more than I beat him 100% true.

However, in the next update, it's WAYY EASIER to fight these kind of builds because of the changes to CP, sweeps, vampires bane, and proxy det. With the CP system you can mitigate so much damage while buffing your own. As to what was buffed:

Radiant Destruction - No longer dodgeable
Dark Flare - 12% additional damage
Vampires Bane - Everything about this skill was buffed. It's in general stronger - longer duration, damage, works on shields/block
Jabs - Snares for 70%
Healing passive applies major mending now - obvious buff
Crescent sweep - 66% additional damage now (Though I have yet to compare this to dawnbreaker. I just need to wait on live patch)


Those are the significant changes I saw. Radiant destruction not being dodgeable is HUGE. It hits extremely hard (Easily 10k plus ticks). As for channeled focus, on the live patch, you get the magicka recovery for 18 seconds, whether or not you are in the circle. On PTS, I haven't tested it after they made another change to it.

Okay... I can see where you are coming from. But I disagree with your assessment. The CP changes affect all builds, and they will change the meta. But to what degree and in what direction... I think it is too early to say for sure. But I don't see Templars coming on top of that shuffle.

Radiant not being dodgeable is nice, and a something that should have been done as a hotfix a long time ago. It was never meant to be dodgeable. But this mostly matters when fighting NBs, and since it's a channel you tend to use it against NBs as an execute when you have already basically won. What this means, is that from now on those pesky dodgers will get what's coming for them served just and well, isntead of them dodging and cloaking and scurrying away in desperation to save their bacon. Radiant is still easily interruptible and you can LOS away from it, and unless you are in execute range, it mostly just tickles. It is also hideously unresponsive and the animation fails to initiate way too often, especially in lag, which is most large fights in cyro.

Dark Flare - yes it's a buff. But it's the wrong buff. I still wont have space for it in my bar. For PVE I can see it having some use. But for PVP, beyond occasional use in sieges, it's still a bad choice. The problem with the spell never was damage. It was utility and ease of use. It's slow as hell, obvious as hell, and easily countered and has bugged animation. And with the no double reflect change, fairly dangerous to use. So, not a buff in my book.

Vampires bane - still too slow and weak to ever go on my bar. If it offered the crit bonus passively, like similar skills for other classes, and not as an active buff. I might slot it to introduce some extra DoT to my rotation. Or even better, let it grant Major Sorcery and I would have a real reason to slot it. As it stands now, it is too limited to be of use beyond PVE bosses.

Jabs... I know most see this as a buff. But I actually would have liked to have retained the knockback since it worked as an interrupt. All I wanted was to remove the 5 sec automatic immunity. Thy could've just limited the immunity to additional knockbacks and it would've been fine. Still, I'm okay with the snare, but only consider it a buff if it lands the snare on the first hit, thus negating some of the targeting issues the skill has. If it lands on the last, it's just different. People will adapt, change their play style and... some people will benefit and others will miss the knockback. And they did also lower the healing of Puncturing Sweeps for an extra little nerf to magplars. And yes, I know the theory that the Major Mending passive change thing will make up for it. But not always, and it does hinder the life of those who still try desperately make our gap closer work. I have give up on Focused Cahrge a long time ago, and am already spamming both ritual and rune, so its effect on me will be negligible. But on the general level, the nerf to healing received is still a nerf.

The healing passive is not an obvious buff. It's a change, and a small nerf to Restoring Light heals (down to 25% from 30%). It's certainly a buff to Stamplars, but as for Magplars... Well it's a change, and some people will benefit from it while others will lose previous utility. The majority of Magplars might ultimately gain from the change, but some of us will suffer.

Crecent Sweep - As a magplar I will still go with Meteor, especially now since it's no longer reflectable. It also works just as well as melee range damage bomb as a ranged damage bomb. And if I am swarmed by enemies... well there is Magicka Detonation for that. If I wanted to slot a Templar Damage Ultimate, I'd go with Supernova. I just fail to see the purpose behind this morph. We already have Dawnbreker in the game, and it does the same thing. And it does the job better. If both morphs of this ability were catering to tanks, with different methods of attaining tankiness I could see a point for it. (or if there were passives that gave me synergy for slotting it - remember that slotting Meteor gives you 2% extra magicka and 2% extra magicka regen,) But as it now stands... I fail to see why anyone would slot it over the other options. So a buff yes, but a buff to a skill that has no reason to be slotted, is not really a buff to the class itself.

And finally Rune Focus - been casting that thing every 8 seconds anyway for the defensive buffs. The buffs other classes get for 20 secs at a time while still retaining their mobility. So the changes to that skill do not make a licking difference for me, and ultimately the changes they are going with are a nerf compared to what is currently available on live.

So yeah. If these skills fit your playstyle then congrats, your build is gonna be buffed. But Magicka Templars, as a whole, are still pretty much where they were before the update.

EgoRush

Just something I realised: Wrobel thinks we should stay in our house. Therefore, why do we even have Toppling Charge as a skill? Maybe that's why the skill is broken, to prevent us from ever "leaving our house".

They should just delete this skill and replace it with a turret or sentry-like skill that can help protect my house. Maybe an alarm system so stealthed characters (i.e. burglars) are revealed if they enter my house.

(There is some sarcasm in this post...I want mobility).

FENGRUSH

I still feel the jabs knockdown is not a buff. Having played stamplar that allows you to have a class skill to close kills - granted the whole 'knockback effects' in this game and CC immunity not working is terribly horrible to deal with, its such a pain in the ass to deal with.

If knockbacks were tied to proper CC immunity itd be another story though I guess. The fact that it did provide CC immunity is one thing but many could and would lead with a javelin or something. Either way, that ministun mid DPS allowed for good closing afterwards - but it may just be a matter of preference. Theres plenty of ways to slow people in the game already.

Sypher

Dreddlock- wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

@sypherpk and @blabafat Im very tired of repeating the same thing but I will so you guys can get it. Can templar be somewhat succesfull in pvp? Yes. Can templars be competitive in pvp? Magicka to a certain degree and a big NO for stam templar (same can be said about stam sorc)
I dare you guys to fight Sribes or any good sword and board stam DK with a templar (magicka or stamina). As I said before, you will not beat him. @sypherpk thinks of himself as a very talented player, id like to see him tryhard vs a top 5 magicka sorc on a templar (stam or magicka)
I could also post videos of me slaying 5+ dudes, heck, even 10 dudes sometimes in iC and all that as a stamina templar but that doesn't mean that the class is fine. You sypher kill vr4s and 5s by just spamming jabs then you expect us all to "realise" how good templars are.

I didn't post the videos to prove templars are top notch. I know they are not. I just posted them to show that I have enough experience with the class to at least talk about the class.

I highly regard your DK, Sorc, and Nightblade skills, but when you don't even know if the removal of knockback on puncturing sweeps and it's morphs are good or bad..... please stop. Your embarrassing your self.

Actually it would have been embarrassing if I pretended to know if it was a good or bad thing without actually having the knowledge.

At least I can admit when I don't know something or make a mistake. Except some of you are looking at a 2.5 hour video I posted where I read the notes for the first time quickly without any real time to reflect/analyze it and are trying to rip any slight mistake or slip up just to belittle or discredit me.

I stated right in the begging of my Templar part of the video that "I am NOT a Templar expert" so I'm confused where you are getting this idea that I know the class inside out. All I said was I've played it and I'm commenting on it from my experience with the class.


Where did this elitist attitude come from?

myrrrorb14_ESO

More pages on the Templar thread than all the other classes combined. Very impressive (depressive?).

Should be interesting to see how this plays out. I can't recall any previous change being talked about as much and in such a short period of time.

Not looking forward to relearning how to play my class... again...

Joy_Division

FENGRUSH wrote: »

I still feel the jabs knockdown is not a buff. Having played stamplar that allows you to have a class skill to close kills - granted the whole 'knockback effects' in this game and CC immunity not working is terribly horrible to deal with, its such a pain in the ass to deal with.

If knockbacks were tied to proper CC immunity itd be another story though I guess. The fact that it did provide CC immunity is one thing but many could and would lead with a javelin or something. Either way, that ministun mid DPS allowed for good closing afterwards - but it may just be a matter of preference. Theres plenty of ways to slow people in the game already.

It's certainly mixed. As pitiful as that CC was, it still could stop a wrecking blow. I was as frustrated as the next templar for the weak CC and all those free CC immunities, but I'm not totally on board with this change. Now I get nothing unless that last jab actually hits. That's not going to happen against the good PvP players unless they are CCed/rooted so there are going to be many situation whens the snare "buff" will not even apply.

Maybe ZoS thought a 70% snare on the intitial hit was too powerful, but I still think this ability needs more work. It's a key templar skill and ZoS should take the time to get it right.

bikerangelo

Stop blaming streamers, it's ZOS' game, plus they're probably never going to come into this thread as it'd be roughly the equivalent of kicking a hornet's nest.

• Magicka Templar dps will be fine next patch, whereas large scale utilitarian magicka templar will have a rough time adjusting.
• Stamina Templar will receive all the other negatives that other stamina classes will have, but now that cloak doesn't purge dots, Stamplars are going to have a better time, especially with the siege changes and DK's dots doing more damage.

The problem right now isn't that Templars are going to suck when TG comes out, it's that ZOS is almost purposefully disengaged from addressing a 58 page list of grievances from their player base. Recommending changes for Templars just feels futile and pointless, especially when the lead combat designer doesn't share the same ideas that the majority of the player base holds.

timidobserver

Sypher wrote: »

Dreddlock- wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

@sypherpk and @blabafat Im very tired of repeating the same thing but I will so you guys can get it. Can templar be somewhat succesfull in pvp? Yes. Can templars be competitive in pvp? Magicka to a certain degree and a big NO for stam templar (same can be said about stam sorc)
I dare you guys to fight Sribes or any good sword and board stam DK with a templar (magicka or stamina). As I said before, you will not beat him. @sypherpk thinks of himself as a very talented player, id like to see him tryhard vs a top 5 magicka sorc on a templar (stam or magicka)
I could also post videos of me slaying 5+ dudes, heck, even 10 dudes sometimes in iC and all that as a stamina templar but that doesn't mean that the class is fine. You sypher kill vr4s and 5s by just spamming jabs then you expect us all to "realise" how good templars are.

I didn't post the videos to prove templars are top notch. I know they are not. I just posted them to show that I have enough experience with the class to at least talk about the class.

I highly regard your DK, Sorc, and Nightblade skills, but when you don't even know if the removal of knockback on puncturing sweeps and it's morphs are good or bad..... please stop. Your embarrassing your self.

Actually it would have been embarrassing if I pretended to know if it was a good or bad thing without actually having the knowledge.

At least I can admit when I don't know something or make a mistake. Except some of you are looking at a 2.5 hour video I posted where I read the notes for the first time quickly without any real time to reflect/analyze it and are trying to rip any slight mistake or slip up just to belittle or discredit me.

I stated right in the begging of my Templar part of the video that "I am NOT a Templar expert" so I'm confused where you are getting this idea that I know the class inside out. All I said was I've played it and I'm commenting on it from my experience with the class.


Where did this elitist attitude come from?

The issue wasn't your mistake or slip up. The issue, for me at least, was the reflexive whine about an insignificant buff to a Templar synergy even though you had no idea what it was. It demonstrated your bias. You were so prepared to whine for more nerfs that you did it before you even knew what you were whining about.

Additionally, you basically celebrated the BoL nerf like it was a birthday present showing even more bias. You certainly have the right to be as bias as you want and celebrate our nerfs, but you shouldn't expect a friendly reception in our thread afterwards.

Lettigall

Joy_Division wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

I still feel the jabs knockdown is not a buff. Having played stamplar that allows you to have a class skill to close kills - granted the whole 'knockback effects' in this game and CC immunity not working is terribly horrible to deal with, its such a pain in the ass to deal with.

If knockbacks were tied to proper CC immunity itd be another story though I guess. The fact that it did provide CC immunity is one thing but many could and would lead with a javelin or something. Either way, that ministun mid DPS allowed for good closing afterwards - but it may just be a matter of preference. Theres plenty of ways to slow people in the game already.

It's certainly mixed. As pitiful as that CC was, it still could stop a wrecking blow. I was as frustrated as the next templar for the weak CC and all those free CC immunities, but I'm not totally on board with this change. Now I get nothing unless that last jab actually hits. That's not going to happen against the good PvP players unless they are CCed/rooted so there are going to be many situation whens the snare "buff" will not even apply.

Maybe ZoS thought a 70% snare on the intitial hit was too powerful, but I still think this ability needs more work. It's a key templar skill and ZoS should take the time to get it right.

Interrupting with knockback is very situational- enemy mustn't have CC immunity at the moment, you need to cast jabs at the right moment, to early it's a CC immunity gift for enemy and if too late you get bashed in the face with WB. And also you need to actually land last hit to CC enemy.

If knocback was on first hit then change to snares could be looked as a nerf but right now it's not giving free CC immunity to everyone around. Chancing knockback to snares gives more control in battle, you can CC enemy when you need not when you manage to somehow land last hit.

With new changes Javelin will be actually useful in close combat, it's damage and lack of debuffs sucks, but it's still way better CC ability then Jabs.

Essiaga

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Mumyo wrote: »

Akinos wrote: »

blabafat wrote: »

I think some people are over exaggerating Templar.

It's not at all gutted - especially magicka templar. It's very powerful next patch

It's not all gutted, you are right. However, you know as well as I do that templars are at the bottom of the food chain when it comes to pretty much everything, even healing now. If somebody pistols the whole other team in an FPS game, is it because of the players skill? Or because his weapon is good?

Templars are powerful yes....in the right hands. It takes SO MUCH MORE effort, thought, skill and patience to play a templar well compared to nightblades and sorcs. Imagine the carnage we would unleash if you or I rerolled nightblade or sorc. We could probably face palm our keyboards as a nightblade / sorc and still win more 1vX fights then we do on our templars.

Templars shouldn't have to try so hard to be competitive. This game only has 4 classes, there is no excuse for ESO not being more balanced. I've played games with over 30 playable classes that have more balance and sense then this game, @FENGRUSH knows what game I'm referring to. If ESO classes had a rating system like some fighting games do, I'm sure templars and probably DK's, would be rated 5 stars for difficulty, while the other two classes would be 1 or 2 stars and designed for beginners.

I have all the respect in the world for you @blabafat . I just can't agree with you or anybody else that says or even suggests that templars are balanced and don't have any problems.

I'm gonna go back to my house now, aka solitary confinement.

I can just agree with that, played my stamina templar since release and i got myself a v16 nb toon.

5minutes of playing with my templars gear and i did a 1v5 without even really knowing what im doing.
I was also on the pts and made a template sorc, slotted stuff for 5 minutes and fought a very experienced templar and managed to kill him.

Thats all there is to say... it is easy in comparison.
But on the other hand i think templar indeed got some pretty buffs and will be surely stronger with the coming patch. The question is : What about the other classes, how strong will they be. We will find out as soon as it goes live. Right now, i think (as a stamplar) i'll be fine since i allready kick ass and see many improvements coming. Im only afraid of the crazy burst builds that may come along.

I agree that stamplars got some nice buffs and thats why we will see much more of them. And sadly i didn't see a single buff for templars that will make magicka templars competitive in open-world pvp again --> another reason why stamplars number will increase.

Why would anyone play stamplar over magicka templar next patch with det + scaling ult + CP allocation in PVP?

You could have said it like this ...

Why would anyone play stamina over magicka ANY CLASS next patch with det + scaling ult + CP allocation in PVP?

... since nothing is exclusive to Templar. We'll be using Det and meteor/dawn breaker and CP of course which can be said of NB, Sorc, and DK builds as well.

Its the utility you get out of the class skills that make it worthwhile as a stam and to a lesser extent magicka build. Templar are weaker in passives and mitigation then the other classes. There is no fear of a Templar that you don't have of another class. We just annoy people with BoL and without the mitigation to be able to defend our selves. Zerg on zerg we can hide in plain sight, this is where most of the complaints about Templar come from. Small skirmish we're who gets focused and dropped.

I want to be able to stand my ground. Admittedly I'm not as good as @blabafat, or most who have posted in this thread. I also haven't been PVP since launch and the reason for it because in other games when I get into PVP I find the class I identify with is not the same in PVP as its said to be or as it plays as in PVE. I shouldn't have to switch classes, and you shouldn't have to switch to magicka, to feel like you're not short changed after grinding through quests and content, crafting and dungeons, to find the class/race/playstyle you made your own constantly getting weaker at something the other classes are getting no weaker at. Mitigating damage. Has ZOS done anything but weaken damage mitigation abilities since going B2P?

'Fixing' Cleansing Ritual and changing reflects to be only 1 ... that was the last straw for me. I don't care if Magicka builds can Det a zerg to death or 1 shot with Dark Flare. I want to be able to stand and fight and I feel more and more like I'm just hurting myself by playing this class and this game. DPS might be king for most but for me its about extending the fight and beating the enemy down. I don't like trading blows ... I want strategies and the strategies that attracted me to this class and this game are all going away with removal of caps and the addition of CP.

timidobserver

The patch notes say that Toppling charge has been improved again. Anyone tested it yet?