Official Feedback Thread for Templars

Zheg

Sypher wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

To be fair, attacking streamers like this is pretty absurd. If the devs make changes around the streamers' opinions instead of having testers and listening to the overall community feedback (what are these threads for again?), the devs are the ones in the wrong, not the streamers.

Everybody is angry, but using personal attacks against the streamers (first Fengrush, now Sypher), who are players like you and have opinions like you, is just wrong.

Thank you!

The nastier attacks aren't necessary, but as I've said before, you voluntarily put yourself on the pedestal and WANT the attention, but that also comes with equal parts disdain when you say something stupid or blatantly false. Can't have it both ways. I'll never understand why people want to watch someone else playing the game when they could be doing it themselves, but to each their own. No one should have to point out that there are mouth breathers who will hang off each and every word you say, and therefore will echo anything you say with 100% certainty that it's necessary and correct (even if it's completely wrong). A dose of caution before wading into topics you aren't well-versed in would probably be best for all parties.

Back to the thread, I've mostly stopped following it; it's become gigantic and frankly the only thing left that would be of interest that hasn't already been said is for an official post. Even the entertaining memes have stopped.

timidobserver

Abeille wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

To be fair, attacking streamers like this is pretty absurd. If the devs make changes around the streamers' opinions instead of having testers and listening to the overall community feedback (what are these threads for again?), the devs are the ones in the wrong, not the streamers.

Everybody is angry, but using personal attacks against the streamers (first Fengrush, now Sypher), who are players like you and have opinions like you, is just wrong.

It is true that they have a right to their opinion, but people can also have an opinion about those opinions. My opinion is that he is right. The purify synergy is OP and is the next Templar thing that needs nerfing.

Sure people can have opinions about their opinions, the problem is when people start calling them "idiots" and saying they are "ruining the game". Disgreeing is fine. I disagree with lots of stuff that both of them say, but it is not reasonable or fair to call them names because of their opinion.

Besides, this discussion is very important, even if it doesn't seem like the devs are reading it. It still has a lot of constructive feedback and I would like things to remain civil to avoid problems with the forum mods.

It is not fair to call him an idiot as a person because who actually knows him, but his bias, reflexive objection to buffing the purify synergy before he even knew what it was fits the definition of idiotic. So while he as a person may not be an idiot, his words in regard to the purify synergy were pretty idiotic per the definition of the word. Though I guess ignorant might be a better word?

Animal_Mother

Over 100 pages of Templar feedback in the past year and I don't believe anyone but Gina or moderators have ever responded from ZOS.

@AriBoh When you started the original mega-thread almost one year ago, would you have imagined we would be commenting about the very same issues? I sure wasn't.

blabafat

I think some people are over exaggerating Templar.

It's not at all gutted - especially magicka templar. It's very powerful next patch

Hymzir

ArgoCye wrote: »

Most of Hymzir's post contradicts itself, but he does have one very good point: "BoL no longer serves as panic heal".

Well... You are free to think what ever you like, and I do not have any intentions nor inclination about starting any sort of debate on the issue. So you found what I said contradictory, okay, I see. Interesting. I don't personally think so, but if it comes across to you as such, then... well so be it. I can live with that . But one could make the argument, that if you do indeed think so, and wish to voice that sentiment, then perhaps it might be prudent to also remark as in which way you find it to be so. Otherwise it becomes a fairly meaningless morsel of information, akin to "I like white chocolate." Which doesn't really add all that much to this discussion.

itscompton

Sypher wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

eliisra wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

Francescolg wrote: »

This is how other people, here: Sypher, are flattered by the incoming nurf to Templars, watch 01:32:33...

https://youtu.be/iwNDGTYG3ZE

..no, he's not biased at all! This video is a perfect example to explain how the combat-team is failing to treat the class in a balanced manner..! And to show, that most players don't even understand the class, when later on he is "shocked" about the synergy-heal on Cleansing Ritual.. lol

He's hurting the game so much and it feels like devs are fixing the game around him, pretty sad actually that a game that has "THE ELDER SCROLLS" in it's name is being balanced around a streamer who averges only 700 views in twitch ESO in a nutshell.

I have to agree. The video is pretty disgusting. He even complains about the buff to a synergy because he has so little understanding of the class that he doesn't know it is a synergy. I wonder if the patch next week will include a nerf to the purify synergy. It's kind of disappointing that the devs are actually listening to this guy.

I picture Wrobel watching this video desperately hoping for approval.

Yeah seriously, I almost puked in my mouth watching that.

He also claims to play "all classes". Even though his templar is like VR1 retired something and he doesn't even know what a Purify synergy is. Why would he tho? He only plays mag sorc and stamblade, because currently the strongest(while likely dreaming of 1.5 DK back).

I'm not really shocked that a guy like Sypher, that only plays fotm class/build combinations, for least resistance and easy wins, sits there and gloats when the individually weakest PvP class gets nerfed. More easy kills for him is better. He doesn't play the class, so why care?

The terrifying thing here is rather that devs wants to be hipster and seeks approval from low- to mid ranked streamers(most gamers never even heard of much less watched) over the entire templar community.

Ive heard him say stam templars are fine and not as bad as people think, then he can't even kill 2-3 guys on his templar while he can take on more than 10 on his DK, sorc or NB....

Just have to point the finger at someone huh? You think Zenimax bases their decisions on a guy like me who literally only plays one aspect of the game? (Solo pvp)

Give me a break. I give my OPINIONS on changes, my opinions are just that.. Opinions.

Considering it doesn't sound like you know what you're talking about when it comes to templars at all I dont think you should be giving any opinions on them. And you really do have terrible reading comprehension too. Have fun fighting a Templar standing inside cleanse getting back 20% more health from sweeps than they do now, haha.

maxjapank

blabafat wrote: »

I think some people are over exaggerating Templar.

It's not at all gutted - especially magicka templar. It's very powerful next patch

Thank you

AriBoh

blabafat wrote: »

I think some people are over exaggerating Templar.

It's not at all gutted - especially magicka templar. It's very powerful next patch

I think you under estimate your own talent. Not everyone is a streamer that plays all day and has lighting reactions to every situation. Most classes have their 'easy mode' builds but on a templar it takes more effort just to get by. This will come off as offensive while its not intended to be, but @blabafat you're a good pvper who plays a templar not the other way around.

FENGRUSH

AriBoh wrote: »

blabafat wrote: »

I think some people are over exaggerating Templar.

It's not at all gutted - especially magicka templar. It's very powerful next patch

I think you under exaggerate your own talent. Not everyone is a streamer that plays all day and has lighting reactions to every situation. Most classes have their 'easy mode' builds but on a templar it takes more effort just to get by. This will come off as offensive while its not intended to be, but @blabafat you're a good pvper who plays a templar not the other way around.

Same thing can be said of stam sorc. Magicka templar will be stronger than a stam sorc next patch as well.

AriBoh

FENGRUSH wrote: »

AriBoh wrote: »

blabafat wrote: »

I think some people are over exaggerating Templar.

It's not at all gutted - especially magicka templar. It's very powerful next patch

I think you under exaggerate your own talent. Not everyone is a streamer that plays all day and has lighting reactions to every situation. Most classes have their 'easy mode' builds but on a templar it takes more effort just to get by. This will come off as offensive while its not intended to be, but @blabafat you're a good pvper who plays a templar not the other way around.

Same thing can be said of stam sorc. Magicka templar will be stronger than a stam sorc next patch as well.

Which sucks for you man, and while I know it doesn't apply to you cause you like stam, the average sorc can and prolly will go magicka and shield stack to win. Templar has problems either spec before and after this patch.

Zheg

blabafat wrote: »

I think some people are over exaggerating Templar.

It's not at all gutted - especially magicka templar. It's very powerful next patch

For glass cannon magicka templars, sure, they can do a lot of damage, and you certainly will. I still don't like trying to fight the animations for dark flare and blazing spear to get them to land in lag though. With only one reflect and purify not working on projectiles any more, it will be fun fun fun when you die to your own buffed dark flare, or at the very least defile yourself when lag gets so bad the animation is still flying in the air towards your enemy after you've already been hit by the reflect. Your playstyle won't be impacted as much as people running around inside keeps where 2+ casts of bombard are being spammed every second, for which templars have neither the mitigation nor mobility to properly deal with (stam sorcs are also in a bad spot, yes, but they still have more options to handle that soon to be frequent situation of permaroots). With the rise of the bowtards in TG, you won't be able to purify snipes any more either, so have fun with that. The changes in the next patch are really only good if you're trolling pugs at a resource or in random fights in the middle of no where.

Sypher

itscompton wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

eliisra wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

Francescolg wrote: »

This is how other people, here: Sypher, are flattered by the incoming nurf to Templars, watch 01:32:33...

https://youtu.be/iwNDGTYG3ZE

..no, he's not biased at all! This video is a perfect example to explain how the combat-team is failing to treat the class in a balanced manner..! And to show, that most players don't even understand the class, when later on he is "shocked" about the synergy-heal on Cleansing Ritual.. lol

He's hurting the game so much and it feels like devs are fixing the game around him, pretty sad actually that a game that has "THE ELDER SCROLLS" in it's name is being balanced around a streamer who averges only 700 views in twitch ESO in a nutshell.

I have to agree. The video is pretty disgusting. He even complains about the buff to a synergy because he has so little understanding of the class that he doesn't know it is a synergy. I wonder if the patch next week will include a nerf to the purify synergy. It's kind of disappointing that the devs are actually listening to this guy.

I picture Wrobel watching this video desperately hoping for approval.

Yeah seriously, I almost puked in my mouth watching that.

He also claims to play "all classes". Even though his templar is like VR1 retired something and he doesn't even know what a Purify synergy is. Why would he tho? He only plays mag sorc and stamblade, because currently the strongest(while likely dreaming of 1.5 DK back).

I'm not really shocked that a guy like Sypher, that only plays fotm class/build combinations, for least resistance and easy wins, sits there and gloats when the individually weakest PvP class gets nerfed. More easy kills for him is better. He doesn't play the class, so why care?

The terrifying thing here is rather that devs wants to be hipster and seeks approval from low- to mid ranked streamers(most gamers never even heard of much less watched) over the entire templar community.

Ive heard him say stam templars are fine and not as bad as people think, then he can't even kill 2-3 guys on his templar while he can take on more than 10 on his DK, sorc or NB....

Just have to point the finger at someone huh? You think Zenimax bases their decisions on a guy like me who literally only plays one aspect of the game? (Solo pvp)

Give me a break. I give my OPINIONS on changes, my opinions are just that.. Opinions.

Considering it doesn't sound like you know what you're talking about when it comes to templars at all I dont think you should be giving any opinions on them. And you really do have terrible reading comprehension too. Have fun fighting a Templar standing inside cleanse getting back 20% more health from sweeps than they do now, haha.

Magicka Templar PvP 1
Magicka Templar PTS
Stamina Templar PvP 1
Stamina Templar PvP 2

My opinions are just opinions. Everyone has a right to one, including me.. The guy who doesn't know what he is talking about..

The buff to the passive is a blessing in disguise for anyone who doesn't only really on breath of life for healing. AKA stamina templars or resto heals. I'm well aware.

dodgehopper_ESO

Sypher wrote: »

itscompton wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

eliisra wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

Francescolg wrote: »

This is how other people, here: Sypher, are flattered by the incoming nurf to Templars, watch 01:32:33...

https://youtu.be/iwNDGTYG3ZE

..no, he's not biased at all! This video is a perfect example to explain how the combat-team is failing to treat the class in a balanced manner..! And to show, that most players don't even understand the class, when later on he is "shocked" about the synergy-heal on Cleansing Ritual.. lol

He's hurting the game so much and it feels like devs are fixing the game around him, pretty sad actually that a game that has "THE ELDER SCROLLS" in it's name is being balanced around a streamer who averges only 700 views in twitch ESO in a nutshell.

I have to agree. The video is pretty disgusting. He even complains about the buff to a synergy because he has so little understanding of the class that he doesn't know it is a synergy. I wonder if the patch next week will include a nerf to the purify synergy. It's kind of disappointing that the devs are actually listening to this guy.

I picture Wrobel watching this video desperately hoping for approval.

Yeah seriously, I almost puked in my mouth watching that.

He also claims to play "all classes". Even though his templar is like VR1 retired something and he doesn't even know what a Purify synergy is. Why would he tho? He only plays mag sorc and stamblade, because currently the strongest(while likely dreaming of 1.5 DK back).

I'm not really shocked that a guy like Sypher, that only plays fotm class/build combinations, for least resistance and easy wins, sits there and gloats when the individually weakest PvP class gets nerfed. More easy kills for him is better. He doesn't play the class, so why care?

The terrifying thing here is rather that devs wants to be hipster and seeks approval from low- to mid ranked streamers(most gamers never even heard of much less watched) over the entire templar community.

Ive heard him say stam templars are fine and not as bad as people think, then he can't even kill 2-3 guys on his templar while he can take on more than 10 on his DK, sorc or NB....

Just have to point the finger at someone huh? You think Zenimax bases their decisions on a guy like me who literally only plays one aspect of the game? (Solo pvp)

Give me a break. I give my OPINIONS on changes, my opinions are just that.. Opinions.

Considering it doesn't sound like you know what you're talking about when it comes to templars at all I dont think you should be giving any opinions on them. And you really do have terrible reading comprehension too. Have fun fighting a Templar standing inside cleanse getting back 20% more health from sweeps than they do now, haha.

Magicka Templar PvP 1
Magicka Templar PTS
Stamina Templar PvP 1
Stamina Templar PvP 2

My opinions are just opinions. Everyone has a right to one, including me.. The guy who doesn't know what he is talking about..

The buff to the passive is a blessing in disguise for anyone who doesn't only really on breath of life for healing. AKA stamina templars or resto heals. I'm well aware.

Those are fun videos. I do think some of the underlying flaws in game systems still exist. The problem of the way mitigation works on Sorcerers for Stamina/Tank builds. The problem the way shields work in general. The way in which health skills work. The way stamina regeneration functions while blocking. Templar does have some issues, but you do highlight good Pvp Gameplay. I'd like to point out that some of what is posted highlights concerns about the class in general. You'll note that the 'armor skill' being used is shuffle, and not Rune Focus. This is not surprising to any of us, but its easy to compare head to head with something like Boundless Lightning. At least on the Stamina builds I would say what was done here could be accomplished by any Stamina Build more or less.

On the magicka builds I noticed you used the Charge. If you start to play the class a while, unless they really, truly have fixed it in PTS, that skill will get you killed, a lot over time. I can't say enough how annoying this skill can be. This isn't to say anything bad about your skills, but rather invariably this skill is problematic and still needs fixing. Again no Rune Focus, not surprising but noticeable. No sun shield either. I'll not deny though that a well played highly aggressive Templar build can be played and well, you show that much. Other builds though have been eroded. If we want the game to be DPS only, so be it. I think a lot will be lost if that's what its going to be though.

Hymzir

blabafat wrote: »

I think some people are over exaggerating Templar.

It's not at all gutted - especially magicka templar. It's very powerful next patch

What makes you think so? What changes in the update make magicka Templar really strong?

As far as I can say, the only real power buff is that Dark Flare hits harder. Every other change is either a nerf or a meaningless change to a skill no one really uses all that much. And the healing changes are "give some, take some" kinda deal. They will benefit certain playstyles and hinder others.

I really don't see any significant change in the Templar class that makes us strong in any particular way. We will be pretty much as "strong" as we were.

Now having said that, I do admit freely, that my build is going to be stronger come this new update. The changes that make me stronger, however, have nothing to do with the Templar class, and are in fact beneficial to all magicka builds from all classes. Things like the CP change, where elemental and magic damage go under one star. That will help buff the damage of my primary ranged attack, i.e. Force Shock weave, as well as making Meteor hit harder, since now I'll get the CP damage boost to those things too. Everything else I use does magic damage, so my points are thus currently spent on Thaumaturge.

But this change will also help Magicka Sorcs. Crystal Frags, Velocious Curse, Daedric mines... they all do magic damage, thus the Sorc no longer has to pick either elemental damage or magic damage to buff with CP. Now they too can buff all their attacks with one star.

So how much stronger I will be, relative to other classes, is difficult to gauge at this point. Especially since we also have all sort of tweaks to core mechanics, like how Rapids work, no double reflects anymore and so on. We also get changes to how commonly used skills work - Detonation deals tons of more damage and no reflecting Meteors anymore. How all these changes will move the meta remains to be seen.

However, what can be said is that there really were no significant changes, no general buffs, no added synergy to passives as far as Templars are concerned. We got few buffs and few nerfs, but mostly remain just as we were before.

The issues we had before the update, are still the issues we have after the update. Resource management is PITA, there is no real synergy between our skills and our passives. Most Templars end up using mostly non Templar skills, since they are better and often come with passives that do offer synergy.

If you had problems running a Templar, you will still have those problems. If you have learned to work around those issues, and are an experienced player, then yes - you can make magicka Templar work. You can even be quite successful at doing so. It's just harder to pull off than it is with the other classes. That is the real issue.

Take mobility for example: As Templars, we have none. And will not have any in the future, because we have a house. Our spells are channels, or have cast time, or have hideously unresponsive animations, leading to a play experience that is best described as sluggish. Remember that "Templars are just slower... by design."

I can circumvent that and keep mobile. I just need to recast my house every few seconds or when ever I move more than 8 meters. Having been doing that for quite a long time, I've grown quite good at it, and religiously cast my Rune and my Ritual at the start of each engagement and constantly recast them wherever the flow of battle takes me. I carry large stack of Vanish potions with speed buff and stamina regain to have at least some means of escape when things go south. And I constantly keep swapping Rapid Maneuver to my flex slot when moving from place to place, since going at a slower pace is a death sentence. Especially to a Templar that roams Cyrodiil solo. I have adapted, I have learned how to succeed within the constraints of the system. But it is tedious, it is harder than it needs to be, and it is harder than it would be with another class. I for one have grown tired of always facing an uphill battle. I just want Templars to be on equal footing with the other classes.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

blabafat wrote: »

I think some people are over exaggerating Templar.

It's not at all gutted - especially magicka templar. It's very powerful next patch

Happens to lots of people really. Heck there are post in the NB thread about how the no regen in stealth while moving has broken stealth made sneaking useless and destroyed the class. NBs swearing off the game and canceling subs. Complaining about lack of communication and poor direction. I thought maybe I was in the Templar thread.

Khivas_Carrick

Still no reply from ZoS? We get streamers talking ***, but no dev response? Figures.

Also, while it's easy to blame the streamers, don't, it's not their fault ZoS is pretending they're their combat testing team without paying them lol

But seriously, don't blame them, blame ZoS.

Although Sypher did say something stupid lol But that's the only thing thus far. If I was a popular streamer, I'd post a video and use my voice to help the class, not *** on it further.

SemiD4rkness

@sypherpk and @blabafat Im very tired of repeating the same thing but I will so you guys can get it. Can templar be somewhat succesfull in pvp? Yes. Can templars be competitive in pvp? Magicka to a certain degree and a big NO for stam templar (same can be said about stam sorc)
I dare you guys to fight Sribes or any good sword and board stam DK with a templar (magicka or stamina). As I said before, you will not beat him. @sypherpk thinks of himself as a very talented player, id like to see him tryhard vs a top 5 magicka sorc on a templar (stam or magicka)
I could also post videos of me slaying 5+ dudes, heck, even 10 dudes sometimes in iC and all that as a stamina templar but that doesn't mean that the class is fine. You sypher kill vr4s and 5s by just spamming jabs then you expect us all to "realise" how good templars are.

maxjapank

Hymzir wrote: »

What makes you think so? What changes in the update make magicka Templar really strong?

As far as I can say, the only real power buff is that Dark Flare hits harder. Every other change is either a nerf or a meaningless change to a skill no one really uses all that much. And the healing changes are "give some, take some" kinda deal. They will benefit certain playstyles and hinder others.

I really don't see any significant change in the Templar class that makes us strong in any particular way. We will be pretty much as "strong" as we were.

Now having said that, I do admit freely, that my build is going to be stronger come this new update. The changes that make me stronger, however, have nothing to do with the Templar class, and are in fact beneficial to all magicka builds from all classes. Things like the CP change, where elemental and magic damage go under one star. That will help buff the damage of my primary ranged attack, i.e. Force Shock weave, as well as making Meteor hit harder, since now I'll get the CP damage boost to those things too. Everything else I use does magic damage, so my points are thus currently spent on Thaumaturge.

But this change will also help Magicka Sorcs. Crystal Frags, Velocious Curse, Daedric mines... they all do magic damage, thus the Sorc no longer has to pick either elemental damage or magic damage to buff with CP. Now they too can buff all their attacks with one star.

So how much stronger I will be, relative to other classes, is difficult to gauge at this point. Especially since we also have all sort of tweaks to core mechanics, like how Rapids work, no double reflects anymore and so on. We also get changes to how commonly used skills work - Detonation deals tons of more damage and no reflecting Meteors anymore. How all these changes will move the meta remains to be seen.

However, what can be said is that there really were no significant changes, no general buffs, no added synergy to passives as far as Templars are concerned. We got few buffs and few nerfs, but mostly remain just as we were before.

The issues we had before the update, are still the issues we have after the update. Resource management is PITA, there is no real synergy between our skills and our passives. Most Templars end up using mostly non Templar skills, since they are better and often come with passives that do offer synergy.

If you had problems running a Templar, you will still have those problems. If you have learned to work around those issues, and are an experienced player, then yes - you can make magicka Templar work. You can even be quite successful at doing so. It's just harder to pull off than it is with the other classes. That is the real issue.

Take mobility for example: As Templars, we have none. And will not have any in the future, because we have a house. Our spells are channels, or have cast time, or have hideously unresponsive animations, leading to a play experience that is best described as sluggish. Remember that "Templars are just slower... by design."

I can circumvent that and keep mobile. I just need to recast my house every few seconds or when ever I move more than 8 meters. Having been doing that for quite a long time, I've grown quite good at it, and religiously cast my Rune and my Ritual at the start of each engagement and constantly recast them wherever the flow of battle takes me. I carry large stack of Vanish potions with speed buff and stamina regain to have at least some means of escape when things go south. And I constantly keep swapping Rapid Maneuver to my flex slot when moving from place to place, since going at a slower pace is a death sentence. Especially to a Templar that roams Cyrodiil solo. I have adapted, I have learned how to succeed within the constraints of the system. But it is tedious, it is harder than it needs to be, and it is harder than it would be with another class. I for one have grown tired of always facing an uphill battle. I just want Templars to be on equal footing with the other classes.

I must say that this is probably the most knowledgeable post I've read so far. You Mr. @Hymzir , definitely know the strengths and weaknesses of playing a Templar in pvp. And it's a very fair description. Well done!

I highlighted a few areas that spoke true to me:

1) We need better resource management.

2) We need better mobility. I would die for a Magicka regen/spell power/speed pot. Stamina Templars can get a Stam regen/weapon power/speed pot, but what an expensive option when all we want is a little bit of speed. And it's the Rapid Maneuvers breaking on friendly spells, aka healing, that are going to hurt Magicka Templars the most.

3) Templars, in general, must cast Rune and Ritual religiously. If you are used to it, you will still do fine next patch. If you haven't been used to it, you will have to learn. The Major Mending (bonus) heals will happen more often when you are running next patch, since we still get that bonus 4 secs after leaving those areas.

Cinbri

maxjapank wrote: »

Hymzir wrote: »

What makes you think so? What changes in the update make magicka Templar really strong?

As far as I can say, the only real power buff is that Dark Flare hits harder. Every other change is either a nerf or a meaningless change to a skill no one really uses all that much. And the healing changes are "give some, take some" kinda deal. They will benefit certain playstyles and hinder others.

I really don't see any significant change in the Templar class that makes us strong in any particular way. We will be pretty much as "strong" as we were.

Now having said that, I do admit freely, that my build is going to be stronger come this new update. The changes that make me stronger, however, have nothing to do with the Templar class, and are in fact beneficial to all magicka builds from all classes. Things like the CP change, where elemental and magic damage go under one star. That will help buff the damage of my primary ranged attack, i.e. Force Shock weave, as well as making Meteor hit harder, since now I'll get the CP damage boost to those things too. Everything else I use does magic damage, so my points are thus currently spent on Thaumaturge.

But this change will also help Magicka Sorcs. Crystal Frags, Velocious Curse, Daedric mines... they all do magic damage, thus the Sorc no longer has to pick either elemental damage or magic damage to buff with CP. Now they too can buff all their attacks with one star.

So how much stronger I will be, relative to other classes, is difficult to gauge at this point. Especially since we also have all sort of tweaks to core mechanics, like how Rapids work, no double reflects anymore and so on. We also get changes to how commonly used skills work - Detonation deals tons of more damage and no reflecting Meteors anymore. How all these changes will move the meta remains to be seen.

However, what can be said is that there really were no significant changes, no general buffs, no added synergy to passives as far as Templars are concerned. We got few buffs and few nerfs, but mostly remain just as we were before.

The issues we had before the update, are still the issues we have after the update. Resource management is PITA, there is no real synergy between our skills and our passives. Most Templars end up using mostly non Templar skills, since they are better and often come with passives that do offer synergy.

If you had problems running a Templar, you will still have those problems. If you have learned to work around those issues, and are an experienced player, then yes - you can make magicka Templar work. You can even be quite successful at doing so. It's just harder to pull off than it is with the other classes. That is the real issue.

Take mobility for example: As Templars, we have none. And will not have any in the future, because we have a house. Our spells are channels, or have cast time, or have hideously unresponsive animations, leading to a play experience that is best described as sluggish. Remember that "Templars are just slower... by design."

I can circumvent that and keep mobile. I just need to recast my house every few seconds or when ever I move more than 8 meters. Having been doing that for quite a long time, I've grown quite good at it, and religiously cast my Rune and my Ritual at the start of each engagement and constantly recast them wherever the flow of battle takes me. I carry large stack of Vanish potions with speed buff and stamina regain to have at least some means of escape when things go south. And I constantly keep swapping Rapid Maneuver to my flex slot when moving from place to place, since going at a slower pace is a death sentence. Especially to a Templar that roams Cyrodiil solo. I have adapted, I have learned how to succeed within the constraints of the system. But it is tedious, it is harder than it needs to be, and it is harder than it would be with another class. I for one have grown tired of always facing an uphill battle. I just want Templars to be on equal footing with the other classes.

I must say that this is probably the most knowledgeable post I've read so far. You Mr. @Hymzir , definitely know the strengths and weaknesses of playing a Templar in pvp. And it's a very fair description. Well done!

I highlighted a few areas that spoke true to me:

1) We need better resource management.

2) We need better mobility. I would die for a Magicka regen/spell power/speed pot. Stamina Templars can get a Stam regen/weapon power/speed pot, but what an expensive option when all we want is a little bit of speed. And it's the Rapid Maneuvers breaking on friendly spells, aka healing, that are going to hurt Magicka Templars the most.

3) Templars, in general, must cast Rune and Ritual religiously. If you are used to it, you will still do fine next patch. If you haven't been used to it, you will have to learn. The Major Mending (bonus) heals will happen more often when you are running next patch, since we still get that bonus 4 secs after leaving those areas.

1. We need it indeed. On no CP campaign my templar is out of resources even on fully sustain build.
2. Wrobel confirmed that we won't get mobility. If you wanna play competitive open-world pvp templar - go stamplar that can cover this huge weakness.
3. Sadly for those templars who used those skills it means another 5% healing nerf.

Sypher

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

@sypherpk and @blabafat Im very tired of repeating the same thing but I will so you guys can get it. Can templar be somewhat succesfull in pvp? Yes. Can templars be competitive in pvp? Magicka to a certain degree and a big NO for stam templar (same can be said about stam sorc)
I dare you guys to fight Sribes or any good sword and board stam DK with a templar (magicka or stamina). As I said before, you will not beat him. @sypherpk thinks of himself as a very talented player, id like to see him tryhard vs a top 5 magicka sorc on a templar (stam or magicka)
I could also post videos of me slaying 5+ dudes, heck, even 10 dudes sometimes in iC and all that as a stamina templar but that doesn't mean that the class is fine. You sypher kill vr4s and 5s by just spamming jabs then you expect us all to "realise" how good templars are.

I didn't post the videos to prove templars are top notch. I know they are not. I just posted them to show that I have enough experience with the class to at least talk about the class.

Zinaroth

This thread has been derailed and turned into a witch hunt targeting certain high profile players in our community. The individuals who are derailing this thread is more toxic to the discussion/fight on/for the templar class than these hogh profile players will ever be. You all know I champion the cause of stamina templars, but the last 20 pages I have simply given up on this thread because of the mud throwing it has turned into, and I do not blame ZOS if they have done the same. The arguments being presented on page 1-10 are the same people are writing huge essays about on page 35. Do people not read others suggestions before they make their own? If they did a simple quote where you agree is enough, no need to write everything over. In Denmark we have a saying that dictates only a fool tries to reinvent a deep plate also called a bowl. Can you please get this thread back on track? Back on track being constructice criticism and not blaming certain individuals for everything bad in this game. Only then will we be taken seriously. These certain individuals preaching hate are basically ruining the entire "movement" and making everyone look bad in the process...

Thank you.

Akinos

blabafat wrote: »

I think some people are over exaggerating Templar.

It's not at all gutted - especially magicka templar. It's very powerful next patch

It's not all gutted, you are right. However, you know as well as I do that templars are at the bottom of the food chain when it comes to pretty much everything, even healing now. If somebody pistols the whole other team in an FPS game, is it because of the players skill? Or because his weapon is good?

Templars are powerful yes....in the right hands. It takes SO MUCH MORE effort, thought, skill and patience to play a templar well compared to nightblades and sorcs. Imagine the carnage we would unleash if you or I rerolled nightblade or sorc. We could probably face palm our keyboards as a nightblade / sorc and still win more 1vX fights then we do on our templars.

Templars shouldn't have to try so hard to be competitive. This game only has 4 classes, there is no excuse for ESO not being more balanced. I've played games with over 30 playable classes that have more balance and sense then this game, @FENGRUSH knows what game I'm referring to. If ESO classes had a rating system like some fighting games do, I'm sure templars and probably DK's, would be rated 5 stars for difficulty, while the other two classes would be 1 or 2 stars and designed for beginners.

I have all the respect in the world for you @blabafat . I just can't agree with you or anybody else that says or even suggests that templars are balanced and don't have any problems.

I'm gonna go back to my house now, aka solitary confinement.

SemiD4rkness

Zinaroth wrote: »

This thread has been derailed and turned into a witch hunt targeting certain high profile players in our community. The individuals who are derailing this thread is more toxic to the discussion/fight on/for the templar class than these hogh profile players will ever be. You all know I champion the cause of stamina templars, but the last 20 pages I have simply given up on this thread because of the mud throwing it has turned into, and I do not blame ZOS if they have done the same. The arguments being presented on page 1-10 are the same people are writing huge essays about on page 35. Do people not read others suggestions before they make their own? If they did a simple quote where you agree is enough, no need to write everything over. In Denmark we have a saying that dictates only a fool tries to reinvent a deep plate also called a bowl. Can you please get this thread back on track? Back on track being constructice criticism and not blaming certain individuals for everything bad in this game. Only then will we be taken seriously. These certain individuals preaching hate are basically ruining the entire "movement" and making everyone look bad in the process...

Thank you.

High profile players aren't being targeted just players who think templars are fine are being targeted, known or unknown players doesn't matter.

Sypher wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

@sypherpk and @blabafat Im very tired of repeating the same thing but I will so you guys can get it. Can templar be somewhat succesfull in pvp? Yes. Can templars be competitive in pvp? Magicka to a certain degree and a big NO for stam templar (same can be said about stam sorc)
I dare you guys to fight Sribes or any good sword and board stam DK with a templar (magicka or stamina). As I said before, you will not beat him. @sypherpk thinks of himself as a very talented player, id like to see him tryhard vs a top 5 magicka sorc on a templar (stam or magicka)
I could also post videos of me slaying 5+ dudes, heck, even 10 dudes sometimes in iC and all that as a stamina templar but that doesn't mean that the class is fine. You sypher kill vr4s and 5s by just spamming jabs then you expect us all to "realise" how good templars are.

I didn't post the videos to prove templars are top notch. I know they are not. I just posted them to show that I have enough experience with the class to at least talk about the class.

You do not have enough experience with the class let me tell you that. You happen to have two vr16 nightblades, 1 vr16 DK and 1 vr16 Sorcerer, wonder why the only class you haven't leveled is templar. Don't blame you though if had any other class as a main I would never in thw world even consider playing a templar in it's current state. It'd be really nice if you would put the same amount of effort to ask for buffs as you do when asking for nerfs to anything that is bad to you.

As an example of how bad you know the class you can check your own stamina templar guide where you talk about restoring light passives and say that vigor rally will benefit from them. Fortunately this is getting adressed next patch and we will be granted the major mending buffs. Stop acting like you know the class.

Zinaroth

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

This thread has been derailed and turned into a witch hunt targeting certain high profile players in our community. The individuals who are derailing this thread is more toxic to the discussion/fight on/for the templar class than these hogh profile players will ever be. You all know I champion the cause of stamina templars, but the last 20 pages I have simply given up on this thread because of the mud throwing it has turned into, and I do not blame ZOS if they have done the same. The arguments being presented on page 1-10 are the same people are writing huge essays about on page 35. Do people not read others suggestions before they make their own? If they did a simple quote where you agree is enough, no need to write everything over. In Denmark we have a saying that dictates only a fool tries to reinvent a deep plate also called a bowl. Can you please get this thread back on track? Back on track being constructice criticism and not blaming certain individuals for everything bad in this game. Only then will we be taken seriously. These certain individuals preaching hate are basically ruining the entire "movement" and making everyone look bad in the process...

Thank you.

High profile players aren't being targeted just players who think templars are fine are being targeted, known or unknown players doesn't matter.

Sypher wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

@sypherpk and @blabafat Im very tired of repeating the same thing but I will so you guys can get it. Can templar be somewhat succesfull in pvp? Yes. Can templars be competitive in pvp? Magicka to a certain degree and a big NO for stam templar (same can be said about stam sorc)
I dare you guys to fight Sribes or any good sword and board stam DK with a templar (magicka or stamina). As I said before, you will not beat him. @sypherpk thinks of himself as a very talented player, id like to see him tryhard vs a top 5 magicka sorc on a templar (stam or magicka)
I could also post videos of me slaying 5+ dudes, heck, even 10 dudes sometimes in iC and all that as a stamina templar but that doesn't mean that the class is fine. You sypher kill vr4s and 5s by just spamming jabs then you expect us all to "realise" how good templars are.

I didn't post the videos to prove templars are top notch. I know they are not. I just posted them to show that I have enough experience with the class to at least talk about the class.

You do not have enough experience with the class let me tell you that. You happen to have two vr16 nightblades, 1 vr16 DK and 1 vr16 Sorcerer, wonder why the only class you haven't leveled is templar. Don't blame you though if had any other class as a main I would never in thw world even consider playing a templar in it's current state. It'd be really nice if you would put the same amount of effort to ask for buffs as you do when asking for nerfs to anything that is bad to you.

As an example of how bad you know the class you can check your own stamina templar guide where you talk about restoring light passives and say that vigor rally will benefit from them. Fortunately this is getting adressed next patch and we will be granted the major mending buffs. Stop acting like you know the class.

Yeah well I don't think console players should have a saying either because the game is much more skill based on PC because combat is much faster caused by easier access to movement, targeting and animation cancelling. This makes it two different experiences and the templar being a very slow class thrives a lot better on console than it does on PC. But that is just what I think and you don't see me preaching PC over console because everyone has their experiences and opinions. Both with low level play, high level play, console play or PC play, or even just facing templars. All experiences and opinions are valid. Some are more informed than others; for example are the PC crowd the one being able to test stuff which naturally makes them more knowledgeable and are able to back up arguments with data. But that does not mean feedback from console players isn't worth anything, just like feedback from high profile streamers are also worth somethint, no matter how limited their experience and knowledge on templars. You should never criticize someone for their opinion or feedback, instead challenge what they are saying. We're discussing a subject here, not whether certain individuals are allowed to voice their opinion or not.

Dreddlock-

@ZOS_GinaBruno

I've been team Stamplar since day one. On behalf of all Templars, thank you for the puncturing sweeps changes, the rune focus changes and NEW the radial sweep change buffing it's damage 66% and 1m range and finally Piercing javelin range extended to 28m.

The changes are great but there not enough. Empowering sweep needs to scale off of (similar to dragon leap) physical damage.

Rune focus needs to be completely mobilized. Swap out the animation of bone shards and make some pretty yellow runes and keep all of your new rune focus tooltips minus leaving the vicinity and your done.

One of the two gap closers (ie toppling charge) need a Stamina morph. Think about it as a Ranged magica Templar why would they want to enter melee range. Stamina Templars want to enter melee range and they want the damage of there gap closer to be based off of stamina.

Breath of life still needs to be able to heal 3 people. We understand why it was nerfed, but there's a better way to go about the nerf. It has drastically effected PvE. I would like to propose that you restore Breath of life to what it was and implement diminishing returns (ie consecutive dodge rolls or sorc bolt escape) to any cast with in three seconds. Reduce the amount the caster can heal if used repeatedly or increase the magica cost 20%, 40%, 60% 100%.

Sun shield needs it's damage output reduced to 0% and it's damage absorption increased and based if of stamina, magica, or a combo of health and stamina or a combo of health and magica.

Finally if ZOS wants Templar to be a stationary target, we need our shields to be scaled off of magica. We need a cc (blinding light) or a new passive that buffs our spell and physical resistance 15-33% when stationary.

Thank you for listening.

Cinbri

Dreddlock- wrote: »

Dyride wrote: »

Dyride wrote: »

Am I wrong in thinking that Restoring Focus is now a huge buff skill for tanking or stamplar PVP?

I don't have the PTS downloaded yet, but the changes for Focused Healing to give Major Mending should effect stamina heals.

So Restoring Focus will give Major Mending+Minor Vitality+ Major Resolve/Ward+Minor Protection. Couple that with Empowering Sweep+Minor Maim from Deep Slash+Defensive Stance and you have incredible mitigation.

Just to put that in perspective, that is +30% Healing done +8% Healing received and +16% mitigation from one skill (Restoring Focus).

minor protection is 8% not 16%. But I asked for this particual buff for this particular skill and since we got it, I will finally gladly respec back to Restoring Focus (it is templar version of Chocking Talons, but more effective since it apply buff on you, not cleansable debuff on enemy)... till i get new pvp sets Coz this morph make you drop only templar mana sustain skill - Channeled Focus. So, ZOS must buff Restoring Spirit passive.
And Focused Healing now 25% healing done, not 30%.
Also in theory if you use Bloodspawn and Tava = Empowering Sweep 10 sec mitigation = 60 ult + 15 ult from bloodspawn = 75 ult when previous Sweep expired, since Sweep costs 72 ult - instant Sweep and mitigation. But till Sweep get Major Protection as buff, it won't be that effective (or maybe grant this buff to Warden set, that will be even more great).

WillhelmBlack

Zheg wrote: »

blabafat wrote: »

I think some people are over exaggerating Templar.

It's not at all gutted - especially magicka templar. It's very powerful next patch

For glass cannon magicka templars, sure, they can do a lot of damage, and you certainly will. I still don't like trying to fight the animations for dark flare and blazing spear to get them to land in lag though. With only one reflect and purify not working on projectiles any more, it will be fun fun fun when you die to your own buffed dark flare, or at the very least defile yourself when lag gets so bad the animation is still flying in the air towards your enemy after you've already been hit by the reflect. Your playstyle won't be impacted as much as people running around inside keeps where 2+ casts of bombard are being spammed every second, for which templars have neither the mitigation nor mobility to properly deal with (stam sorcs are also in a bad spot, yes, but they still have more options to handle that soon to be frequent situation of permaroots). With the rise of the bowtards in TG, you won't be able to purify snipes any more either, so have fun with that. The changes in the next patch are really only good if you're trolling pugs at a resource or in random fights in the middle of no where.

This is the main point, no one can argue this.

Dreddlock-

@Sypherpk didn't even know it the removal of knockback was a good thing or a bad thing on his 2.3.0 patch note video. The second he said that was the second I began to seriously doubt his Templar experience.

Dreddlock-

Sypher wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

@sypherpk and @blabafat Im very tired of repeating the same thing but I will so you guys can get it. Can templar be somewhat succesfull in pvp? Yes. Can templars be competitive in pvp? Magicka to a certain degree and a big NO for stam templar (same can be said about stam sorc)
I dare you guys to fight Sribes or any good sword and board stam DK with a templar (magicka or stamina). As I said before, you will not beat him. @sypherpk thinks of himself as a very talented player, id like to see him tryhard vs a top 5 magicka sorc on a templar (stam or magicka)
I could also post videos of me slaying 5+ dudes, heck, even 10 dudes sometimes in iC and all that as a stamina templar but that doesn't mean that the class is fine. You sypher kill vr4s and 5s by just spamming jabs then you expect us all to "realise" how good templars are.

I didn't post the videos to prove templars are top notch. I know they are not. I just posted them to show that I have enough experience with the class to at least talk about the class.

I highly regard your DK, Sorc, and Nightblade skills, but when you don't even know if the removal of knockback on puncturing sweeps and it's morphs are good or bad..... please stop. Your embarrassing your self.

Mumyo

Akinos wrote: »

blabafat wrote: »

I think some people are over exaggerating Templar.

It's not at all gutted - especially magicka templar. It's very powerful next patch

It's not all gutted, you are right. However, you know as well as I do that templars are at the bottom of the food chain when it comes to pretty much everything, even healing now. If somebody pistols the whole other team in an FPS game, is it because of the players skill? Or because his weapon is good?

Templars are powerful yes....in the right hands. It takes SO MUCH MORE effort, thought, skill and patience to play a templar well compared to nightblades and sorcs. Imagine the carnage we would unleash if you or I rerolled nightblade or sorc. We could probably face palm our keyboards as a nightblade / sorc and still win more 1vX fights then we do on our templars.

Templars shouldn't have to try so hard to be competitive. This game only has 4 classes, there is no excuse for ESO not being more balanced. I've played games with over 30 playable classes that have more balance and sense then this game, @FENGRUSH knows what game I'm referring to. If ESO classes had a rating system like some fighting games do, I'm sure templars and probably DK's, would be rated 5 stars for difficulty, while the other two classes would be 1 or 2 stars and designed for beginners.

I have all the respect in the world for you @blabafat . I just can't agree with you or anybody else that says or even suggests that templars are balanced and don't have any problems.

I'm gonna go back to my house now, aka solitary confinement.

I can just agree with that, played my stamina templar since release and i got myself a v16 nb toon.

5minutes of playing with my templars gear and i did a 1v5 without even really knowing what im doing.
I was also on the pts and made a template sorc, slotted stuff for 5 minutes and fought a very experienced templar and managed to kill him.

Thats all there is to say... it is easy in comparison.
But on the other hand i think templar indeed got some pretty buffs and will be surely stronger with the coming patch. The question is : What about the other classes, how strong will they be. We will find out as soon as it goes live. Right now, i think (as a stamplar) i'll be fine since i allready kick ass and see many improvements coming. Im only afraid of the crazy burst builds that may come along.