Official Feedback Thread for Templars

tinythinker

sadownik wrote: »

@Idinuse "Dont walk away... in silence" i would say it fits that thread.

sadownik

@tinythinker damn... cant beat that.

danno8

Cinbri wrote: »

<-- waiting for 2.3.3 patchnotes to be dissapointed even more.

You won't be disappointed with your disappointment.

Idinuse

sadownik wrote: »

@Idinuse "Dont walk away... in silence" i would say it fits that thread.

Indeed sadownik, indeed! Yet, Love (for Templars) will tear us apart wasn't that limping, maybe .

And tinythinker, that exit is epic! Might just be the Templar meme of 2016...

Well in any case, I for one am looking forward to Joys' further theorycrafting and insightful suggestions and thoughts about Templars.

*backontrack*

jhharvest

So I had been considering since December if I want to keep playing ESO at all. The reason for this was the class imbalance and shoddy PVP that's either Steel Tornado trains or burst kills from stealth, coupled with the lag and bizarre bugs in Templar skills like Toppling Charge. I was waiting for the TG patch to see if these issues got fixed.

Bottom line is: none of these got fixed. So I've got two options as far as I can figure out. First option is to just quit altogether like I was planning. It strongly looks like PVP and class balance is never going get fixed because it doesn't look like a priority for the dev team. This option would be a shame because I like the community and I like the lore and the PVE side where class balance doesn't really make much of a difference.

The second option is that I quit reading the forums since our feedback is completely ignored by the developers of the game, and shelve my Templar in favour of my other characters. I really liked my Templar - he was never the strongest or the fastest or the most min/maxed character but he was MY character. I guess, no more. I've been levelling a shield stacking sorc, that's pretty fun too, right? And if I'm in a dungeon group and people complain how hard it's to find dedicated healers, I'll just tell them the story of #bacon.

dennissomb16_ESO

Unfortunately they won't really loose a lot of their templar paying customers. The really unhappy templars will simply play another class. this will get worse once they remove vet levels since all a player will have to do is level to 50 and will have enough champ points to essentially be equal to the highest vet level (first pass i heard was only 160 champ points to be equal to vet 16).

Ongoing game issues may cause some erosion of the player base where everyone is effected (continuing lag in cyrodil as an example).

For me the main reason I am probably going to retire my templar is when the "Lead Designer" thinks standing in a small circle is a viable option for any class. This shows a serious lack of understanding of the game play, especially in PvP or Dungeons

SemiD4rkness

dennissomb16_ESO wrote: »

Unfortunately they won't really loose a lot of their templar paying customers. The really unhappy templars will simply play another class. this will get worse once they remove vet levels since all a player will have to do is level to 50 and will have enough champ points to essentially be equal to the highest vet level (first pass i heard was only 160 champ points to be equal to vet 16).

Ongoing game issues may cause some erosion of the player base where everyone is effected (continuing lag in cyrodil as an example).

For me the main reason I am probably going to retire my templar is when the "Lead Designer" thinks standing in a small circle is a viable option for any class. This shows a serious lack of understanding of the game play, especially in PvP or Dungeons

Im one of the templars that will leave soon. Even now I play a maximum of 2 hours a week, not even fun anymore. At first it was like a challenge, to beat players with the underdog build feels good but people get better and better, and there's a point where you can't push your class further and that's when you see how weak we actually are. I know a good stamina templar, very good one and I think he might be top 5 templar in the world, he has a very unique build. It's heartbreaking seing him get beaten so easily by fotm stam DKs or fotm magicka sorcs who are equally skilled as him (maybe even less)
Also it's very frustrating how they never ever hotfix anything, no matter how bad said thing is. 2h axe broken? Who cares there's a nice little ponny in the crown store. Reverberating bash broken for more than year? Who cares there are cute little cats in the crown store. Templars gapcloser broken and ruin the experience for many players? Whatever there's a nice dress I can put on my male orc. Remember how long it took for them to fix maces and nirn? If it's always gonna be like this I better spend my time somewhere else. I envy you pve players, at least you got some nice content and balance issues aren't as important in pve but sadly I can't enjoy pve im a pvp and only pvp player, so I cane to realise this isn't the game for me.

dodgehopper_ESO

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

dennissomb16_ESO wrote: »

Unfortunately they won't really loose a lot of their templar paying customers. The really unhappy templars will simply play another class. this will get worse once they remove vet levels since all a player will have to do is level to 50 and will have enough champ points to essentially be equal to the highest vet level (first pass i heard was only 160 champ points to be equal to vet 16).

Ongoing game issues may cause some erosion of the player base where everyone is effected (continuing lag in cyrodil as an example).

For me the main reason I am probably going to retire my templar is when the "Lead Designer" thinks standing in a small circle is a viable option for any class. This shows a serious lack of understanding of the game play, especially in PvP or Dungeons

Im one of the templars that will leave soon. Even now I play a maximum of 2 hours a week, not even fun anymore. At first it was like a challenge, to beat players with the underdog build feels good but people get better and better, and there's a point where you can't push your class further and that's when you see how weak we actually are. I know a good stamina templar, very good one and I think he might be top 5 templar in the world, he has a very unique build. It's heartbreaking seing him get beaten so easily by fotm stam DKs or fotm magicka sorcs who are equally skilled as him (maybe even less)
Also it's very frustrating how they never ever hotfix anything, no matter how bad said thing is. 2h axe broken? Who cares there's a nice little ponny in the crown store. Reverberating bash broken for more than year? Who cares there are cute little cats in the crown store. Templars gapcloser broken and ruin the experience for many players? Whatever there's a nice dress I can put on my male orc. Remember how long it took for them to fix maces and nirn? If it's always gonna be like this I better spend my time somewhere else. I envy you pve players, at least you got some nice content and balance issues aren't as important in pve but sadly I can't enjoy pve im a pvp and only pvp player, so I cane to realise this isn't the game for me.

I really hope people don't leave the game for good. I understand taking a break when a game just isn't developing quickly enough (particularly with MMO's).

Joy_Division

Idinuse wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

-snip-
Which is probably why he/she(sorry Joy seem feminine but it a game and i know lots that play oposite sex characters, etc)

Actually, Joy Division was one of the first on the forum I remembered the name of, but then it seems Joy has an unusually good taste in music =D

https://youtu.be/zuuObGsB0No

I have excellent taste in music

That's a good one, but my favorite is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiCc_mFXD3E

My frustration is mostly about the lack of dev response to the worries that a lot of templars are losing their identity more than power. If power was what templar players wanted, they'd just play an alt. But you get attached to a character you may have played for 2 years, it's a tough pill to swallow when all of a sudden a sorcerer pet can crank out two big heals and you're looking to defend your house and see a lot of nothing.

Unfortunately, it seems we got to wait for DB update for anything new, but I'm not gonna lie, I'm already more so looking forward to Camelot Unchained as their developers seem more ... let's just say responsive ... to their player community. I've said what I said in what I think is in a fair and clear way and I said it back in October. At some point, just got to realize that saying something a 101st time isn't going to be any different than the 100th time.

As maxjapank remarked, the intent of those comments were not how they were interpreted and I respect him/her reaching out to me. It's not easy to reach out when in such a situation; we've all said thing and later realized "wow, should have put that another way." In any event, it's just a reminder there is no ideal templar build and that's something that distinguishes the class from say sorcerers. It's one of the charms about the class and I think we're losing some of that this patch. Kodi, probably one of the best players period on the NA server, has recently posted a video on the Alliance forums running what seems really low stats: 21k health, 9.5K magicka, 31K stamina and it's absolutely amazing gameplay. It's something I try to emulate on my magicka temp, though he is such a skilled player, there is a lot more "try" than actual results Worth checking out!

I'll pop in to this and other templar threads form time to time to add a quick support for the many good ideas that come out of them, but the lack of communication and apparent concern for our feedback on ZoS's part for the game in general (it's more than just templars even if templars are the most outstanding example) has led me to believe my time and personal investment is better spent elsewhere. I still love my templar and will still play it and admire the tenacity of those folks continuing the good fight, but I'm too tired to offer much more than support.

AOECAPS

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom do you guys see this or care at all? This class has just been driven into the ground and your dev team is telling us "eh just stay in your house" when our house doesn't have a security system like a Sorcs has with mines. I love playing my Templar and am cool with the BOL reduction but everything else is still a complete and utter joke. Toppling charge over a year to be "looked at and fixed" burning light proc given a cool down without a word our shields are WORTHLESS in PvP because your devs were lazy with correcting shield problems. A pal has a sorc with a 9k shield in pvp my blazing shield is 3150 can even absorb a light attack. Empowering sweeps is still a joke but was given an additional 1 meter in distance. Nova costs more than standard and standard is way better we don't get resource management through passives like every other class in game. the least you can do is give us a class change for free since Wrobel doesn't have the time or intelligence to fix and balance the Templar class. Instead of having class abilities that we can use in pvp and pve we have to rely on weapon skills as stamplars. I can't proc burning light on sorc shields so why wouldn't I just spam wrecking blow and in turn have a sorc come here on the forums to complain about wrecking blow spam when I see a Templar in pvp I just laugh because I don't have to worry about anything when I'm on my NB they are just holding on to free AP or telvar stones for me.

Itoq

jhharvest wrote: »

I really liked my Templar - he was never the strongest or the fastest or the most min/maxed character but he was MY character.

Joy_Division wrote: »

In any event, it's just a reminder there is no ideal templar build and that's something that distinguishes the class from say sorcerers. It's one of the charms about the class and I think we're losing some of that this patch.

“All happy players are alike; each unhappy Templar player is unhappy in its own way.” - Leo Templar


* Edit: To avoid the risk of not paying proper recognition to Leo Tolstoy; The actual sentence, as translated, is, 'Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.' and is known as the Anna Karenina principle.

Abob

One quick question, can DK's still interrupt Remembrance?

Thank you

Cinbri

Abob wrote: »

One quick question, can DK's still interrupt Remembrance?

Thank you

Yes, it still can. "Why?", you may ask. Because of reasons.

sadownik

@Joy_Division thank you for a massive flashback from one of my more intensive LSD experiences. That was the toon.

Francescolg

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

It not that easy. Imaginve if they exclude Sun Shield from battle spirit - troll builds like templar with 50k hp and 100 points in Bastion will spam Blazing Shield into crowd and get 20k damage shield upon cast = it will be most effecient and unkillable bomb build. There is much more easy soultions - like buff other skills, to increase survivability.

Sure, a Bombplar will be the most efficient and unkillable guy with a 20k shield..

Do you know how much the incoming damage is in PvP? Do you really think a 20k shield.. sure?

eliisra

Francescolg wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

It not that easy. Imaginve if they exclude Sun Shield from battle spirit - troll builds like templar with 50k hp and 100 points in Bastion will spam Blazing Shield into crowd and get 20k damage shield upon cast = it will be most effecient and unkillable bomb build. There is much more easy soultions - like buff other skills, to increase survivability.

Sure, a Bombplar will be the most efficient and unkillable guy with a 20k shield..

Do you know how much the incoming damage is in PvP? Do you really think a 20k shield.. sure?

Removing Battle Spirit from all skills scaling of health would be to much. Both you're average DK+ templar PvP spec would be rocking a 10k shield with some points into Bastion. Everyone but NB's and stamina builds would be shield stack monsters.

They need to buff Sun Shield(any skill scaling of health really) individually. It's relevant in PvE to, since traditional tank spec's with 30k health have lost their purpose. Maybe buff the strength of Sun Shield with 10-15% or so and add something like evasion or 2-3 seconds expedition upon activation, for example.

Abob

Cinbri wrote: »

Abob wrote: »

One quick question, can DK's still interrupt Remembrance?

Thank you

Yes, it still can. "Why?", you may ask. Because of reasons.

Great! I was afraid it was going to get fixed next patch.

Francescolg

eliisra wrote: »

Removing Battle Spirit from all skills scaling of health would be to much. Both you're average DK+ templar PvP spec would be rocking a 10k shield with some points into Bastion. Everyone but NB's and stamina builds would be shield stack monsters.

I think that the overall incoming damage in PvP is way higher than I could defend by spamming a 10k absorb shield. The current armor sets with group synergies, Molag Kena, etc. etc. pp., combined together, lead to players having very high weapon/spell dmg builds.. which are far above the Templar's very own defensive capabilities, which is Blazing Shield... (see 13k aimed shot hits, see 10k spammable not-dodgeable gap closers, see 13k Crystal Fragments, all those hurt your shield, even if non-crit and the shield DOES NOT make immune to CC, and combining it with Immovable will not work because dmg is too high).

(I'll not sum up all possibilities for burst-dmg spec's in PvP and their relative group-strategies [def+att], combined with all new armors which came up during the last year, and within the next patch, WHICH push burst damage capabilities over the skies..)

Templars are left with too many interruptable-spells, NO AoE CC, NO mobility, NO real defense capability (I left out puncturing sweep, etc., as the heal is way better in pve), except a f..ng shield, which was nurfed into uselessness and a f...ing (and crippled) heal, so that every class can self-heal and self-shield way more effectively than a templar, whose self-heal is not sufficient ---> making Blazing Shield the only real way to defend yourself in PvP (no 1h/shield spec). (I'll not go further in depth, as it all stands in this thread)

Francescolg

This is how other people, here: Sypher, are flattered by the incoming nurf to Templars, watch 01:32:33...

https://youtu.be/iwNDGTYG3ZE

..no, he's not biased at all! This video is a perfect example to explain how the combat-team is failing to treat the class in a balanced manner..! And to show, that most players don't even understand the class, when later on he is "shocked" about the synergy-heal on Cleansing Ritual.. lol

SemiD4rkness

Francescolg wrote: »

This is how other people, here: Sypher, are flattered by the incoming nurf to Templars, watch 01:32:33...

https://youtu.be/iwNDGTYG3ZE

..no, he's not biased at all! This video is a perfect example to explain how the combat-team is failing to treat the class in a balanced manner..! And to show, that most players don't even understand the class, when later on he is "shocked" about the synergy-heal on Cleansing Ritual.. lol

He's hurting the game so much and it feels like devs are fixing the game around him, pretty sad actually that a game that has "THE ELDER SCROLLS" in it's name is being balanced around a streamer who averges only 700 views in twitch ESO in a nutshell.

Cinbri

Francescolg wrote: »

This is how other people, here: Sypher, are flattered by the incoming nurf to Templars, watch 01:32:33...

https://youtu.be/iwNDGTYG3ZE

..no, he's not biased at all! This video is a perfect example to explain how the combat-team is failing to treat the class in a balanced manner..! And to show, that most players don't even understand the class, when later on he is "shocked" about the synergy-heal on Cleansing Ritual.. lol

Why you still even watching it?
I remember IC PTS when sypher dueled Sribes stamknight. He managed to get victory on nb and sorc but his magicka templar was literally owned in 5 sec, like 20 times in a row; and he just abandoned it. This was perfect example how devs ruined class, but did sypher say anything regarding terrible templar balance?! No, for him everything was OK. Class that can't play competitive role is OK for him, less problems to kill templars. So i didn't watch him after this.(weird but several weeks later record sribes vs templar was deleted from twitch) All his reviews are not from templar pov, but from fight vs templar pov, so i doubt his opinion should be viable for you.
And this is sad coz i still remember time when templar was competitive class, before all those nerf hammers.

Just watch sypher templar vs sribes stmknight and see how unbalanced it was even than.
And LOL: stamplar don't have any class skill to defend against op sorc = totally balanced according to Sypher. Definetly won't watch anything from him again.

Jura23

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

Francescolg wrote: »

This is how other people, here: Sypher, are flattered by the incoming nurf to Templars, watch 01:32:33...

https://youtu.be/iwNDGTYG3ZE

..no, he's not biased at all! This video is a perfect example to explain how the combat-team is failing to treat the class in a balanced manner..! And to show, that most players don't even understand the class, when later on he is "shocked" about the synergy-heal on Cleansing Ritual.. lol

He's hurting the game so much and it feels like devs are fixing the game around him, pretty sad actually that a game that has "THE ELDER SCROLLS" in it's name is being balanced around a streamer who averges only 700 views in twitch ESO in a nutshell.

Nope, Sypher isn't hurting the game. And he's not even hurting Templars. Sure we can discuss if he doesn't care about our class or whatever, that's all legit opinions. But he's not responsible for actions of ZOS no matter what he says.

BalticBlues

Francescolg wrote: »

This is how other people, here: Sypher, are flattered by the incoming nurf to Templars

Listen to Sypher's own words: "I am no Templar expert".
Indeed he isn't. And he probably does not heal PUGS with BOL at all.
Sypher is a good guy, but he is the perfect example of how PvP DD streamers ruin PvE Templars.

timidobserver

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

Francescolg wrote: »

This is how other people, here: Sypher, are flattered by the incoming nurf to Templars, watch 01:32:33...

https://youtu.be/iwNDGTYG3ZE

..no, he's not biased at all! This video is a perfect example to explain how the combat-team is failing to treat the class in a balanced manner..! And to show, that most players don't even understand the class, when later on he is "shocked" about the synergy-heal on Cleansing Ritual.. lol

He's hurting the game so much and it feels like devs are fixing the game around him, pretty sad actually that a game that has "THE ELDER SCROLLS" in it's name is being balanced around a streamer who averges only 700 views in twitch ESO in a nutshell.

I have to agree. The video is pretty disgusting. He even complains about the buff to a synergy because he has so little understanding of the class that he doesn't know it is a synergy. I wonder if the patch next week will include a nerf to the purify synergy. It's kind of disappointing that the devs are actually listening to this guy.

I picture Wrobel watching this video desperately hoping for approval.

eliisra

timidobserver wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

Francescolg wrote: »

This is how other people, here: Sypher, are flattered by the incoming nurf to Templars, watch 01:32:33...

https://youtu.be/iwNDGTYG3ZE

..no, he's not biased at all! This video is a perfect example to explain how the combat-team is failing to treat the class in a balanced manner..! And to show, that most players don't even understand the class, when later on he is "shocked" about the synergy-heal on Cleansing Ritual.. lol

He's hurting the game so much and it feels like devs are fixing the game around him, pretty sad actually that a game that has "THE ELDER SCROLLS" in it's name is being balanced around a streamer who averges only 700 views in twitch ESO in a nutshell.

I have to agree. The video is pretty disgusting. He even complains about the buff to a synergy because he has so little understanding of the class that he doesn't know it is a synergy. I wonder if the patch next week will include a nerf to the purify synergy. It's kind of disappointing that the devs are actually listening to this guy.

I picture Wrobel watching this video desperately hoping for approval.

Yeah seriously, I almost puked in my mouth watching that.

He also claims to play "all classes". Even though his templar is like VR1 retired something and he doesn't even know what a Purify synergy is. Why would he tho? He only plays mag sorc and stamblade, because currently the strongest(while likely dreaming of 1.5 DK back).

I'm not really shocked that a guy like Sypher, that only plays fotm class/build combinations, for least resistance and easy wins, sits there and gloats when the individually weakest PvP class gets nerfed. More easy kills for him is better. He doesn't play the class, so why care?

The terrifying thing here is rather that devs wants to be hipster and seeks approval from low- to mid ranked streamers(most gamers never even heard of much less watched) over the entire templar community.

SemiD4rkness

eliisra wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

Francescolg wrote: »

This is how other people, here: Sypher, are flattered by the incoming nurf to Templars, watch 01:32:33...

https://youtu.be/iwNDGTYG3ZE

..no, he's not biased at all! This video is a perfect example to explain how the combat-team is failing to treat the class in a balanced manner..! And to show, that most players don't even understand the class, when later on he is "shocked" about the synergy-heal on Cleansing Ritual.. lol

He's hurting the game so much and it feels like devs are fixing the game around him, pretty sad actually that a game that has "THE ELDER SCROLLS" in it's name is being balanced around a streamer who averges only 700 views in twitch ESO in a nutshell.

I have to agree. The video is pretty disgusting. He even complains about the buff to a synergy because he has so little understanding of the class that he doesn't know it is a synergy. I wonder if the patch next week will include a nerf to the purify synergy. It's kind of disappointing that the devs are actually listening to this guy.

I picture Wrobel watching this video desperately hoping for approval.

Yeah seriously, I almost puked in my mouth watching that.

He also claims to play "all classes". Even though his templar is like VR1 retired something and he doesn't even know what a Purify synergy is. Why would he tho? He only plays mag sorc and stamblade, because currently the strongest(while likely dreaming of 1.5 DK back).

I'm not really shocked that a guy like Sypher, that only plays fotm class/build combinations, for least resistance and easy wins, sits there and gloats when the individually weakest PvP class gets nerfed. More easy kills for him is better. He doesn't play the class, so why care?

The terrifying thing here is rather that devs wants to be hipster and seeks approval from low- to mid ranked streamers(most gamers never even heard of much less watched) over the entire templar community.

Ive heard him say stam templars are fine and not as bad as people think, then he can't even kill 2-3 guys on his templar while he can take on more than 10 on his DK, sorc or NB....

darkstar2084

if you think that video is bad you should watch his wish list for Magicka Dk, pretty much everything on it has been crossed off. If he only has a veteran level 1 stam Templar and detests PVE. Sypher really shouldn't help make suggestions for nefing temp class PVE'rs. I wouldn't normally approve of this kind of thing, but 55+ pages of feedback I can see why someone finally did it. Sypher makes some pretty decent build & gear round up PVP videos. But Zos soley catering to these pvp streamers, when clearly they have a bias to pvp & certain classes that is not balance

Dredlord

Francescolg wrote: »

This is how other people, here: Sypher, are flattered by the incoming nurf to Templars, watch 01:32:33...

https://youtu.be/iwNDGTYG3ZE

..no, he's not biased at all! This video is a perfect example to explain how the combat-team is failing to treat the class in a balanced manner..! And to show, that most players don't even understand the class, when later on he is "shocked" about the synergy-heal on Cleansing Ritual.. lol

I have never watched this guy's stream
I had no idea he was so *** ing stupid. His reading comprehension is at an elementary school level.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

Classes are so balanced, that when speaking about balance people often forget a fourth class even exsist....

RoyJade wrote: »

Dk are the natural counter to sorc. In my opinion, it's fair. Sorc are really strong against Nb, Nb are good against DK, DK are good against sorc. So it was intended, but some change destroy this balance (especially with nerfs and stamina change, who bring a lot more possibility

Animal_Mother

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

I really hope people don't leave the game for good. I understand taking a break when a game just isn't developing quickly enough (particularly with MMO's).

I just came back after after three months off when Orsinium was released and got all excited when Gina posted in December about exciting changes coming in for us.

Cool finally some attention, I thought. I'll resub and get access to the PTS.

And now they are saying another 3 months. Screw you ZOS.

On live, I've been playing a DK over this weekend and it is so much easier than a Templar. It's too bad I need a res staff to heal, but if I get in trouble... Talons! It convinces me even more that we desperately need an AOE CC.