Official Feedback Thread for Templars

Sypher · February 2016

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

eliisra wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

Francescolg wrote: »

This is how other people, here: Sypher, are flattered by the incoming nurf to Templars, watch 01:32:33...

https://youtu.be/iwNDGTYG3ZE

..no, he's not biased at all! This video is a perfect example to explain how the combat-team is failing to treat the class in a balanced manner..! And to show, that most players don't even understand the class, when later on he is "shocked" about the synergy-heal on Cleansing Ritual.. lol

He's hurting the game so much and it feels like devs are fixing the game around him, pretty sad actually that a game that has "THE ELDER SCROLLS" in it's name is being balanced around a streamer who averges only 700 views in twitch ESO in a nutshell.

I have to agree. The video is pretty disgusting. He even complains about the buff to a synergy because he has so little understanding of the class that he doesn't know it is a synergy. I wonder if the patch next week will include a nerf to the purify synergy. It's kind of disappointing that the devs are actually listening to this guy.

I picture Wrobel watching this video desperately hoping for approval.

Yeah seriously, I almost puked in my mouth watching that.

He also claims to play "all classes". Even though his templar is like VR1 retired something and he doesn't even know what a Purify synergy is. Why would he tho? He only plays mag sorc and stamblade, because currently the strongest(while likely dreaming of 1.5 DK back).

I'm not really shocked that a guy like Sypher, that only plays fotm class/build combinations, for least resistance and easy wins, sits there and gloats when the individually weakest PvP class gets nerfed. More easy kills for him is better. He doesn't play the class, so why care?

The terrifying thing here is rather that devs wants to be hipster and seeks approval from low- to mid ranked streamers(most gamers never even heard of much less watched) over the entire templar community.

Ive heard him say stam templars are fine and not as bad as people think, then he can't even kill 2-3 guys on his templar while he can take on more than 10 on his DK, sorc or NB....

Just have to point the finger at someone huh? You think Zenimax bases their decisions on a guy like me who literally only plays one aspect of the game? (Solo pvp)

Give me a break. I give my OPINIONS on changes, my opinions are just that.. Opinions.

Sypher · February 2016

Dredlord wrote: »

Francescolg wrote: »

This is how other people, here: Sypher, are flattered by the incoming nurf to Templars, watch 01:32:33...

https://youtu.be/iwNDGTYG3ZE

..no, he's not biased at all! This video is a perfect example to explain how the combat-team is failing to treat the class in a balanced manner..! And to show, that most players don't even understand the class, when later on he is "shocked" about the synergy-heal on Cleansing Ritual.. lol

I have never watched this guy's stream
I had no idea he was so *** ing stupid. His reading comprehension is at an elementary school level.

I've never watched his stream either or know him. He's such an idiot!!!! Screw him!!!

timidobserver · February 2016

Sypher wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

eliisra wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

Francescolg wrote: »

This is how other people, here: Sypher, are flattered by the incoming nurf to Templars, watch 01:32:33...

https://youtu.be/iwNDGTYG3ZE

..no, he's not biased at all! This video is a perfect example to explain how the combat-team is failing to treat the class in a balanced manner..! And to show, that most players don't even understand the class, when later on he is "shocked" about the synergy-heal on Cleansing Ritual.. lol

He's hurting the game so much and it feels like devs are fixing the game around him, pretty sad actually that a game that has "THE ELDER SCROLLS" in it's name is being balanced around a streamer who averges only 700 views in twitch ESO in a nutshell.

I have to agree. The video is pretty disgusting. He even complains about the buff to a synergy because he has so little understanding of the class that he doesn't know it is a synergy. I wonder if the patch next week will include a nerf to the purify synergy. It's kind of disappointing that the devs are actually listening to this guy.

I picture Wrobel watching this video desperately hoping for approval.

Yeah seriously, I almost puked in my mouth watching that.

He also claims to play "all classes". Even though his templar is like VR1 retired something and he doesn't even know what a Purify synergy is. Why would he tho? He only plays mag sorc and stamblade, because currently the strongest(while likely dreaming of 1.5 DK back).

I'm not really shocked that a guy like Sypher, that only plays fotm class/build combinations, for least resistance and easy wins, sits there and gloats when the individually weakest PvP class gets nerfed. More easy kills for him is better. He doesn't play the class, so why care?

The terrifying thing here is rather that devs wants to be hipster and seeks approval from low- to mid ranked streamers(most gamers never even heard of much less watched) over the entire templar community.

Ive heard him say stam templars are fine and not as bad as people think, then he can't even kill 2-3 guys on his templar while he can take on more than 10 on his DK, sorc or NB....

Just have to point the finger at someone huh? You think Zenimax bases their decisions on a guy like me who literally only plays one aspect of the game? (Solo pvp)

Give me a break. I give my OPINIONS on changes, my opinions are just that.. Opinions.

That purify synergy is OP though.

nagarjunna · February 2016

Sypher wrote: »

I've never watched his stream either or know him. He's such an idiot!!!! Screw him!!!

Hi @Sypher, brave of you to come in! I expect you'll be on the end of a whole pile of negative emotions! I'd seriously like to see some feedback from you on the changes being proposed!

nagarjunna · February 2016

One other thing - I'd love to see you streaming with your Templar.

Essiaga · February 2016

AzuraKin wrote: »

Spacemonkey wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

kaalmoth wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

AOECAPS wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

ZOS you should at least increase duration of Sun Shield. Yeah, it's weak, but if it lasted 12-18 s., it would at least not be complete pain for somebody who slots it.

Lol a 12-18second shield that is a 2k hp shield is still worthless you are just delaying the inevitable a little bit longer. It needs to be based off of max stat.period

I didn't say duration increase would solve the problem. What I'm saying, if the duration stays 6 s., it will still be useless no matter what else they do with the skill. At least for me.

on my hp build (something over 40K) 6s is
already very long (in pvp). Usually I want my blazing shield to explode as often as possible and even if I didn't want that, a shield between 7 and 8 K doesnt need a lot of hits to break anyway, so duration isn't the problem.

This is not the case with Radiant Ward.

How people even manage getting to 40k hp is beyond me.... Half points in hp WITH food only gives around 20k, i get you can maybe earn another 10k with gear if you dump ALL the enchants in hp, so the last 10k means you need a set that specifically gives hp.... so at 40k your magicka and stamina is what? like <10k each? how is that even viable?

I run around with 42k max magicka on my nb, its harder to get 42k max magicka then 40k health (and you can get 50k healt fyi).

Race and class have a bit to do with how high you can stack any stat. Imperial NB can stack health higher then a Breton or even Imperal Templar due to the passives.

With magicka ... Sorc and NB can stack Magicka pretty high compared to Templar and with the right race 40k isn't hard, though you might have to sacrifice in other stats it's WAY better then stacking health.

Abob wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Abob wrote: »

One quick question, can DK's still interrupt Remembrance?

Thank you

Yes, it still can. "Why?", you may ask. Because of reasons.

Great! I was afraid it was going to get fixed next patch.

That's an irrational fear. Templar don't get fixes to improve their skills. Just like the dead don't really raise from the grave.

Rest peacefully knowing the Templar will still be your, and everyone else, *** for the foreseeable future.

Abeille · February 2016

To be fair, attacking streamers like this is pretty absurd. If the devs make changes around the streamers' opinions instead of having testers and listening to the overall community feedback (what are these threads for again?), the devs are the ones in the wrong, not the streamers.

Everybody is angry, but using personal attacks against the streamers (first Fengrush, now Sypher), who are players like you and have opinions like you, is just wrong.

Animal_Mother · February 2016

Some feedback on PTS.

I can almost see Focused Healing getting cries for nerfs. It's nice that it applies to everything and even though other classes have access to it through res staff heavy attacks, I can see them being envious. I'm almost tempted to dust off my Argonian Templar - for even more self healing from pots.

Is Puncturing Sweeps returning the correct amount of health? It consistently healed me based on all hits being crits, which due to my template character's nakedness should have been impossible - 10% crit.

Razorback174 · February 2016

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote:

Breath of Life: We understand that many of you are frustrated with this change, but we found the ability was a little too powerful as a single ability (both as a single target and AoE healing ability). We’ve been watching a lot of livestreams, and Templars appear to still be very useful using this ability in conjunction with others. This includes using Focused Healing which now grants you the Major Mending buff, or Healing Ritual which has a decreased cast time. We don’t currently have any plans to change Breath of Life beyond what’s already been done.

I personally have nothing against streamers, but this quote alone proves that they are above and beyond the only people ZOS listen to. The lack of any official dev response with over 50 pages of feedback is very, VERY telling.

Sypher · February 2016

Abeille wrote: »

To be fair, attacking streamers like this is pretty absurd. If the devs make changes around the streamers' opinions instead of having testers and listening to the overall community feedback (what are these threads for again?), the devs are the ones in the wrong, not the streamers.

Everybody is angry, but using personal attacks against the streamers (first Fengrush, now Sypher), who are players like you and have opinions like you, is just wrong.

Thank you!

SemiD4rkness · February 2016

Sypher wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

eliisra wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

Francescolg wrote: »

This is how other people, here: Sypher, are flattered by the incoming nurf to Templars, watch 01:32:33...

https://youtu.be/iwNDGTYG3ZE

..no, he's not biased at all! This video is a perfect example to explain how the combat-team is failing to treat the class in a balanced manner..! And to show, that most players don't even understand the class, when later on he is "shocked" about the synergy-heal on Cleansing Ritual.. lol

He's hurting the game so much and it feels like devs are fixing the game around him, pretty sad actually that a game that has "THE ELDER SCROLLS" in it's name is being balanced around a streamer who averges only 700 views in twitch ESO in a nutshell.

I have to agree. The video is pretty disgusting. He even complains about the buff to a synergy because he has so little understanding of the class that he doesn't know it is a synergy. I wonder if the patch next week will include a nerf to the purify synergy. It's kind of disappointing that the devs are actually listening to this guy.

I picture Wrobel watching this video desperately hoping for approval.

Yeah seriously, I almost puked in my mouth watching that.

He also claims to play "all classes". Even though his templar is like VR1 retired something and he doesn't even know what a Purify synergy is. Why would he tho? He only plays mag sorc and stamblade, because currently the strongest(while likely dreaming of 1.5 DK back).

I'm not really shocked that a guy like Sypher, that only plays fotm class/build combinations, for least resistance and easy wins, sits there and gloats when the individually weakest PvP class gets nerfed. More easy kills for him is better. He doesn't play the class, so why care?

The terrifying thing here is rather that devs wants to be hipster and seeks approval from low- to mid ranked streamers(most gamers never even heard of much less watched) over the entire templar community.

Ive heard him say stam templars are fine and not as bad as people think, then he can't even kill 2-3 guys on his templar while he can take on more than 10 on his DK, sorc or NB....

Just have to point the finger at someone huh? You think Zenimax bases their decisions on a guy like me who literally only plays one aspect of the game? (Solo pvp)

Give me a break. I give my OPINIONS on changes, my opinions are just that.. Opinions.

Thing is, people who watch your stream will do and think the same way that you do. Before you and @Fengrush started complaining about breath of life there was pretty much 0 complains on the forums, as soon as you guys started pointing fingers at templars then suddenly all those who watch you started to think the same way.

Francescolg · February 2016

Razorback174 wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote:

Breath of Life: We understand that many of you are frustrated with this change, but we found the ability was a little too powerful as a single ability (both as a single target and AoE healing ability). We’ve been watching a lot of livestreams, and Templars appear to still be very useful using this ability in conjunction with others. This includes using Focused Healing which now grants you the Major Mending buff, or Healing Ritual which has a decreased cast time. We don’t currently have any plans to change Breath of Life beyond what’s already been done.

I personally have nothing against streamers, but this quote alone proves that they are above and beyond the only people ZOS listen to. The lack of any official dev response with over 50 pages of feedback is very, VERY telling.

Exactly, they can not look at Templars in organized raids, who spam Healing Springs (/-field) all day long and who profit from all the group goodies, synergies, etc. and then tell us that Breath of Life is O.P. (after 2 years they did not notice that..).
The typical Templar, who should be taken into account in such a "study on live stream by ZOS", should be the Templar who plays in a random pvp/pve raid.. (he has the hardest job) Neither the specialized pro-gamer small group, nor the organized spot-healing spamming raid should be the subject of their class observations, here they simply fail..

They admit their failure (your quote of GinaBruno), when they say that they watch other players streaming to make their conclusions on class balance issues. The message underneath is - We don't know enough about Templars!

@Sypher
My purpose is not name calling but a direct reaction to you raising your fist to the sky in sight of the biggest Templar nurf since the release of the game.
Your video is done well and informative, and it perfectly shows how the non-Templar players still don't care so much, or don't even know about the problems, of the most-nurfed class of ESO (even nurfed multiple times when not requested).

This patch feels like the nail in the coffin, after years and years of constant nurfing, cutting and tweaking of a class left alone to the vultures. A class which never was invincible, or even comparable to the "old imba DK", or the "old Sorc Vamp infinite Ulti spec", never! A class which shines so brightly on the battle field, that everyone who doesn't attack it, must be stupid! A magnet for all interrupt spells/skills. A giggle of an encounter for a Sorcerer: "Yes, I don't even need to refresh my Hardened Ward! hahaha", a.s.o...

And, after we thought it couldn't get worse (for me: blazing shield), they start nurfing healing even more based on some videos watched!

Jura23 · February 2016

I'm not a big fan of soft caps, but I think its absence is one of the reasons for those neverending nerfs. The difference you can achieve with gear and all the things is simply too big and ZOS are not able to balance the game anymore, so they nerf what in their eyes (from watching streams?) seems to be overperforming. But it's definitely not the fault of ppl doing the streams.

Lettigall · February 2016

Streamers aren't the bad guys. Streamers in their shows can talk about whatever they like, we can't blame them for expressing their thoughts. We must blame devs for listening just to them. They take feedback from players who doesn't even play the class just because they stream but completely ignore forum feedback from pro templar players.

BalticBlues · February 2016

About general ESO streamers: These people make a living of their streams. Therefore, they need to be competent about the entire game. From competent and neutral streamers you can expect suggestions to ZOS about how lacking classes can be made competitive. People as Deltia have a bigger picture about PvP and PvE and about all classes. I appreciate if ZOS is listening to such competent and neutral people having the bigger picture.

About PvP-only streamers: These people make a living of their streams too, but their first priority is not being competent about the entire game, their first priority is being competitive in only one part of the game. Therefore, they play the most competitive classes in that part. Sypher probably is the World's best Sorc/NB player, and I really admire his playing style. However, he admits that he is not a Templar expert. His demands of making the weakest class in PvP even less competitive and attractive is serving only his own needs, not the needs of the game as a whole, especially not PvE. Of course, this is his right, but I do not appreciate if ZOS is crippling PvE because of people who only speak for PvP, for themsleves and for other classes, not for PvE and especially not for the Templar class.

About ZOS: ZOS has been nerfing Templars patch after patch after patch because of complaints of PvP streamers who do not even play that class to a level of absurdity. Everything the game demands - like dps, mobility, usable shields/cloaks, mitigation, non-channeled skills, 1v1-deciding ultimates - you can find in the Sorc/NB classes played by competitive PvP streamers, not in the Templar class anymore. While new PvE content is setting the requirements of dps, mobility, mitigation etc. higher and higher, the Templar class is more and more lacking, and players are noticing hit. With this patch finally even the last remaining and class-defining benefits of Templars are ruined for PvP (healing, rezzing), and even the little bit of mobility that was left is gone because of reduced sweeps healing for Templars who do not want to stand in circles (Heavy Armor's "Immovable" without circles now has reduced sweeps healing of -12%).

The Templar Class finally is a wreck, thanks to streamers and devs who obviously do not play it.

Hymzir · February 2016

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Classes are so balanced, that when speaking about balance people often forget a fourth class even exsist....

You're not the only one who has noticed this. It is actually pretty common on these forums. I don't think most people even realize that they mentally skip over the whole existence of the class when formulating their arguments.

Also, I find it annoying that the official promo art for the game features a Sorc, a Nb and a DK. No Templars represented.

As for Sypher... Not really surprised by what he says. While I recognize his skill as a player, I do not find his commentary all that relevant as far as game design goes, nor think his take on mechanics of the game is interesting. His videos clearly show that he has a strong bias towards certain playstyle, and all of his opinions are based on enabling that playstyle, and hindering those that oppose it.

Furthermore, I find his reactions to BoL nerf somewhat juvenile. No offense meant here, it's candid feedback on how he comes across in this video. And as a person who maintains a public presence (even if only limited to Youtube and twitch - it's still a public presence) I strongly advice him to keep in mind, that all he says in his public appearances, do reflect on him as a person. And going all giddy about the nerf to a class, that is universally seen as the underdogs in ESO, and more or less saying that: "Sucks to be you. Nananana. Not biased at all! Huray for BoL nerf!", does paint one's persona as not being all that gregarious.

A slightly more objective stance would have perhaps welcomed the change from one's own perspective, but also noted that this is a fairly serious nerf, and perhaps such a thing should have been compensated with some sort of a buff as well.

Besides, he completely misses the point, that the nerf to BoL is not the nerf he was looking for. He fails to understand how the skill works, and thus fails to realize, that the removal of one of the weak secondary heals, will not change anything meaningful on the battlefield. In fact it will make solitary Templars much harder to kill, since they will move to using Honor the Dead, and the magicka returns from that meansan ability to spam heals for that much longer. BoL used to be better than Honor since it was multipurpose. Now that BoL no longer serves as panic heal that also benefits groups (useful ability to have when playing with PUGs, or any group not all that well coordinated) it no longer can compete with Honor which is clearly the better single target panic heal.

For a group that is used to running together, Blessing of Restoration and Healing Springs are much better group heals. Sure, they're harder to use, and need a group that moves together in a coherent manner., but are also much better than BoL ever was. Also, as a bonus, the animations for those skills are tons less sluggish that the silly "almost instant cast time" animation of BoL... And Blessing is much easier to animation cancel as well.

Come this time next month, I wager that the forums will be filled by demands to nerf the primary heal of BoL and Honor since those pesky Templars are not dropping like flies. And isn't that what the design goal is after here?

So yeah... If this is the kind of feedback ZOS listens to then no wonder things suck.

Edit

I'm a slow writer, one who likes to think what I say and how I say it. Thus while I was writing this, Sypher appeared in the thread and the discussion moved on wards. I wish to remind that I have nothing against the man himself, but did find his comments on the Templar as somewhat irritating. As a person with a public presence, I merely want to remind Sypher with my remarks, that he is talking about a touchy subject.

Templars are not happy, and thus the community itself suffers as a whole. Perhaps this would be a good time for all streamers to come to the aid of our ailing class. Since ZOS is definitely not listening to the players of Templars.

But that being said, he is his own man, and free to say and broadcast what ever he wants, in whatever manner he likes. And I can respect that. But we, the public are also free to come to our own conclusions on what sort of merit we place in each particular streamers words and thoughts.

timidobserver · February 2016

Abeille wrote: »

To be fair, attacking streamers like this is pretty absurd. If the devs make changes around the streamers' opinions instead of having testers and listening to the overall community feedback (what are these threads for again?), the devs are the ones in the wrong, not the streamers.

Everybody is angry, but using personal attacks against the streamers (first Fengrush, now Sypher), who are players like you and have opinions like you, is just wrong.

It is true that they have a right to their opinion, but people can also have an opinion about those opinions. My opinion is that he is right. The purify synergy is OP and is the next Templar thing that needs nerfing.

david.haypreub18_ESO · February 2016

So a challenge to @fengrush and @sypher : please actually try playing a Templar in PvP, stream it and let us know how it goes.

Right now Templars are in a terrible place because of a vicious cycle: they are so bad no one plays them in PvP, but then when no one plays them they get worse because they have no advocate. You popular streamers have the ear of the developers, so accept that responsibility and actually do something for the good of the game: try a Templar in PvP-- I mean really try to walk just a mile in our shoes-- before you call for any further changes to the class.

Jura23 · February 2016

timidobserver wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

To be fair, attacking streamers like this is pretty absurd. If the devs make changes around the streamers' opinions instead of having testers and listening to the overall community feedback (what are these threads for again?), the devs are the ones in the wrong, not the streamers.

Everybody is angry, but using personal attacks against the streamers (first Fengrush, now Sypher), who are players like you and have opinions like you, is just wrong.

It is true that they have a right to their opinion, but people can also have an opinion about those opinions. My opinion is that he is right. The purify synergy is OP and is the next Templar thing that needs nerfing.

Just make it not stack with Undaunted command

ThatGuyCameron · February 2016

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

So a challenge to @fengrush and @sypher : please actually try playing a Templar in PvP, stream it and let us know how it goes.

Right now Templars are in a terrible place because of a vicious cycle: they are so bad no one plays them in PvP, but then when no one plays them they get worse because they have no advocate. You popular streamers have the ear of the developers, so accept that responsibility and actually do something for the good of the game: try a Templar in PvP-- I mean really try to walk just a mile in our shoes-- before you call for any further changes to the class.

Uh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcRqwJRtR4k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06DZiiKIXLM

More to the point, as some have said, streamers are just players like you or I. How much sway they have in the community isn't of consequence, the devs are solely responsible for how the game is patched.

As a sole-Templar player I'd love to see someone who mains a Templar appear on We Are ESO but at the same time it's worth realizing that it isn't their job, or anyone else's, to represent the entire class.

The Lord is slaying it as a Stamplar though... and I am very happy about that.

dodgehopper_ESO · February 2016

BalticBlues wrote: »

About general ESO streamers: These people make a living of their streams. Therefore, they need to be competent about the entire game. From competent and neutral streamers you can expect suggestions to ZOS about how lacking classes can be made competitive. People as Deltia have a bigger picture about PvP and PvE and about all classes. I appreciate if ZOS is listening to such competent and neutral people having the bigger picture.

About PvP-only streamers: These people make a living of their streams too, but their first priority is not being competent about the entire game, their first priority is being competitive in only one part of the game. Therefore, they play the most competitive classes in that part. Sypher probably is the World's best Sorc/NB player, and I really admire his playing style. However, he admits that he is not a Templar expert. His demands of making the weakest class in PvP even less competitive and attractive is serving only his own needs, not the needs of the game as a whole, especially not PvE. Of course, this is his right, but I do not appreciate if ZOS is crippling PvE because of people who only speak for PvP, for themsleves and for other classes, not for PvE and especially not for the Templar class.

About ZOS: ZOS has been nerfing Templars patch after patch after patch because of complaints of PvP streamers who do not even play that class to a level of absurdity. Everything the game demands - like dps, mobility, usable shields/cloaks, mitigation, non-channeled skills, 1v1-deciding ultimates - you can find in the Sorc/NB classes played by competitive PvP streamers, not in the Templar class anymore. While new PvE content is setting the requirements of dps, mobility, mitigation etc. higher and higher, the Templar class is more and more lacking, and players are noticing hit. With this patch finally even the last remaining and class-defining benefits of Templars are ruined for PvP (healing, rezzing), and even the little bit of mobility that was left is gone because of reduced sweeps healing for Templars who do not want to stand in circles (Heavy Armor's "Immovable" without circles now has reduced sweeps healing of -12%).

The Templar Class finally is a wreck, thanks to streamers and devs who obviously do not play it.

The irony is I talked about the Templar's failings very early in the development cycle of the game and most of what I said fell on deaf ears. The Templar class has always been a sluggish class with 'the house' combat style, of staying in your rune. The reality is that this was much more workable in the old days before cc immunity, removal of caps, nerf of health multiplier, and general increased broken-ness of skills, as well as the removal of our only cc. The institution of cc immunity really hurt Templar, which in all fairness was too strong in its ability to constantly spam cc's early on. Once you had someone locked it WAS pretty brutal. This hid the fact that many of the underlying mechanics of the class were bad, and I've been calling this issue to them for a long time actually. I don't think we should be attacking @sypher or @fengrush though. It is a good point to make that these guys are biased toward their respective classes, but we don't need to malign them. Pointing out the bias should be enough, and I think its a fair point that @Deltia is the only person I can think of in the game who streams on behalf of the Templar class. I am sure there are others, I just simply don't spend my time looking at streamers, and I'm mostly familiar with Deltia because of the fact that he has regularly put out information on the game as a whole. I have also enjoyed watching some of @sypher's pvp sessions, or even @Ezareth and many others. What we need are more people like @blabafat out here discussing the rights and wrongs of the class in their streams, and the game as a whole. If the developers are only watching the 'popular streamers' then we can see why things have gone awry. I have a gut feeling that the Templar class has always been the red headed stepchild of the game, and therefore just doesn't get the traction that other classes have. At any regard lets remain civil about the whole affair shall we? Maybe this is a call for some of us to start filming our activities more in cyrodiil. I certainly would if I weren't always on the go lately (Laptop).

AriBoh · February 2016

ThatGuyCameron wrote: »

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

So a challenge to @fengrush and @sypher : please actually try playing a Templar in PvP, stream it and let us know how it goes.

Right now Templars are in a terrible place because of a vicious cycle: they are so bad no one plays them in PvP, but then when no one plays them they get worse because they have no advocate. You popular streamers have the ear of the developers, so accept that responsibility and actually do something for the good of the game: try a Templar in PvP-- I mean really try to walk just a mile in our shoes-- before you call for any further changes to the class.

Uh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcRqwJRtR4k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06DZiiKIXLM

More to the point, as some have said, streamers are just players like you or I. How much sway they have in the community isn't of consequence, the devs are solely responsible for how the game is patched.

As a sole-Templar player I'd love to see someone who mains a Templar appear on We Are ESO but at the same time it's worth realizing that it isn't their job, or anyone else's, to represent the entire class.

The Lord is slaying it as a Stamplar though... and I am very happy about that.

I don't have anything against Fengrush (or against Sypher. The bashing being done to them so far isn't needed or productive, bash ZoS they're the lying pieces of ***) But he has 2 templar abilities on that build and he is used to using a build (Stam Sorc) that has barely any skills he can use on stam as well, so he's more or less running what he's used to and isn't representing a templar as much as just a stam build. Also he's moving loads and not doing any of @Wrobels "house defending" BS.

SemiD4rkness · February 2016

I can see a magicka sorcerer winning a dueling tournament, I can also see a stam DK winning one too and same thing with a stamina nightblade. Templar? hahhahahhahahaha

Pandorii · February 2016

56 pages of feedback and counting! Still, I think this is not absolutely representative of the voice of the templar community, including myself. For a long time, I had been passively reading the feedback and silently agreeing. I think it is important for ZOS to see just how large the templar community is. For that reason, I've decided to also stand with them by posting my own stories and angst with the overall attitude towards templars.

I started playing ESO in August 2015 on PS4. I consider my main to be a magicka Templar. She wears Kagrenacs armor (which is being nerfed) in order to quickly revive fallen teammates in PvE content. Although I typically run in the sewers (to grind NPCs for CP experience and tel var stones), I opted for a magicka templar healer build at the expense of having a pure templar DPS build. I can keep myself alive in the sewers against NPCs, sometimes fend of an occasional ganker, and run dungeons as the primary healer. Funny story: I wear the xivkyn polymorph costume when I run in the sewers to not look like a templar. If anyone sees me for what I am, they know I'll be squishy and die. Templars are easy kills. Everyone in PvP knows that. Though I can see how some PvP DPS templars may be excited about the changes, I see nothing to really look forward to as a PvE magicka healer templar in the next major patch.

Unfortunately, I am actually bothered by something greater than the substance of the upcoming changes. I am very bothered by the way that the ZOS team and developers have treated the templar community these last few weeks. I was shocked to see that although the templar voice has become 3 times louder than those of the nightblades (their feedback thread only 18 pages - some of which are templars trying to reach out where they can be seen), the nightblades have been paid attention to and some of their nerfs reduced. Even my NB and Sorc friends admit they are OP classes. The only comments our forum has received from ZOS were asking us to settle down and be respectful.

If they will continue to ignore us until we truly become a forgotten class, then I am inclined to let it be known to them that they have done us templars a great injustice. I've currently let my subscription end, and I am cautiously watching the progress in the PTS in deciding whether or not I will purchase the DLC or move on to a different game. With Black Desert Online in its last stages of Beta testing, this is a real possibility for many of us ZOS.

I am calling for diplomacy, ZOS. Admit that the templar class is far from being balanced relative to the three other classes in the game. Admit that the templar community has been ignored, and offer to truly make an effort to improve our condition (not for Dark Brotherhood but NOW).

ThatGuyCameron · February 2016

AriBoh wrote: »

ThatGuyCameron wrote: »

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

So a challenge to @fengrush and @sypher : please actually try playing a Templar in PvP, stream it and let us know how it goes.

Right now Templars are in a terrible place because of a vicious cycle: they are so bad no one plays them in PvP, but then when no one plays them they get worse because they have no advocate. You popular streamers have the ear of the developers, so accept that responsibility and actually do something for the good of the game: try a Templar in PvP-- I mean really try to walk just a mile in our shoes-- before you call for any further changes to the class.

Uh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcRqwJRtR4k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06DZiiKIXLM

More to the point, as some have said, streamers are just players like you or I. How much sway they have in the community isn't of consequence, the devs are solely responsible for how the game is patched.

As a sole-Templar player I'd love to see someone who mains a Templar appear on We Are ESO but at the same time it's worth realizing that it isn't their job, or anyone else's, to represent the entire class.

The Lord is slaying it as a Stamplar though... and I am very happy about that.

I don't have anything against Fengrush (or against Sypher. The bashing being done to them so far isn't needed or productive, bash ZoS they're the lying pieces of ***) But he has 2 templar abilities on that build and he is used to using a build (Stam Sorc) that has barely any skills he can use on stam as well, so he's more or less running what he's used to and isn't representing a templar as much as just a stam build. Also he's moving loads and not doing any of @Wrobels "house defending" BS.

Thing is, stam builds are generally very similar with each class having it's staple stam ability(s). For Templars, that is essentially just Jabs with maybe a Binding Jav thrown in for CC or pre-charge DPS. We have little else going for us on the stamina front which is what makes using a Stamplar more challenging (not to mention our comparatively lackluster passives). His only other options are dropping the occasional ward/purify which while useful aren't exactly game-changing abilities typical of a Templar purist.

I guess the point is to say Feng/Sypher "don't play Templar" is incorrect. They aren't Templar mains but they can and do use the classes to a degree of success. Thus I don't think the criticism of them being biased/ignorant is warranted as much as I don't believe it to be accurate.

SemiD4rkness · February 2016

ThatGuyCameron wrote: »

AriBoh wrote: »

ThatGuyCameron wrote: »

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

So a challenge to @fengrush and @sypher : please actually try playing a Templar in PvP, stream it and let us know how it goes.

Right now Templars are in a terrible place because of a vicious cycle: they are so bad no one plays them in PvP, but then when no one plays them they get worse because they have no advocate. You popular streamers have the ear of the developers, so accept that responsibility and actually do something for the good of the game: try a Templar in PvP-- I mean really try to walk just a mile in our shoes-- before you call for any further changes to the class.

Uh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcRqwJRtR4k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06DZiiKIXLM

More to the point, as some have said, streamers are just players like you or I. How much sway they have in the community isn't of consequence, the devs are solely responsible for how the game is patched.

As a sole-Templar player I'd love to see someone who mains a Templar appear on We Are ESO but at the same time it's worth realizing that it isn't their job, or anyone else's, to represent the entire class.

The Lord is slaying it as a Stamplar though... and I am very happy about that.

I don't have anything against Fengrush (or against Sypher. The bashing being done to them so far isn't needed or productive, bash ZoS they're the lying pieces of ***) But he has 2 templar abilities on that build and he is used to using a build (Stam Sorc) that has barely any skills he can use on stam as well, so he's more or less running what he's used to and isn't representing a templar as much as just a stam build. Also he's moving loads and not doing any of @Wrobels "house defending" BS.

Thing is, stam builds are generally very similar with each class having it's staple stam ability(s). For Templars, that is essentially just Jabs with maybe a Binding Jav thrown in for CC or pre-charge DPS. We have little else going for us on the stamina front which is what makes using a Stamplar more challenging (not to mention our comparatively lackluster passives). His only other options are dropping the occasional ward/purify which while useful aren't exactly game-changing abilities typical of a Templar purist.

I guess the point is to say Feng/Sypher "don't play Templar" is incorrect. They aren't Templar mains but they can and do use the classes to a degree of success. Thus I don't think the criticism of them being biased/ignorant is warranted as much as I don't believe it to be accurate.

Class is underpowered. Just pick a good stam DK player and he will DESTROY anything these ''top tier'' players can pull off with a stamplar.

nagarjunna · February 2016

The challenge for these players is not to run a Templar once or twice and then claim, "There, see! I have run a Templar!!!!!".

The challenge is for these players to run a Templar, week after week after week, and explore all the possibilities! That means running in groups and healing them, running as a Magicka based Templar, and so on.

I applaud the fact they have come on here and made comments, I'd really welcome some constructive comments from them around how the class can be improved.

dodgehopper_ESO · February 2016

nagarjunna wrote: »

The challenge for these players is not to run a Templar once or twice and then claim, "There, see! I have run a Templar!!!!!".

The challenge is for these players to run a Templar, week after week after week, and explore all the possibilities! That means running in groups and healing them, running as a Magicka based Templar, and so on.

I applaud the fact they have come on here and made comments, I'd really welcome some constructive comments from them around how the class can be improved.

I really think this should be all of our approaches: Look at how a class can be made balanced but fun. We may not have the right idea, but I think if we come at it from that approach it would be better for all.

ArgoCye · February 2016

Most of Hymzir's post contradicts itself, but he does have one very good point: "BoL no longer serves as panic heal". The key word is 'panic' but most Templars were using as it as their 'usual' heal. It's a lazy skill and ZOS is entirely correct in reengineering it. Now Templars can make that great leap to mashing two, hell maybe even three buttons during a dungeon run instead of just one.

As far as PVP goes, yep, Honor the Dead is now much more viable ... have at it. Not sure where the problem is here.

As for those awful, nasty streamers, they are all VERY clear about where their perspectives are coming from. ZOS is not being unduly influenced by them, if they were, PVP wouldn't be the basket case it is atm and we would have had AOE caps removed months ago.

Abeille · February 2016

timidobserver wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

To be fair, attacking streamers like this is pretty absurd. If the devs make changes around the streamers' opinions instead of having testers and listening to the overall community feedback (what are these threads for again?), the devs are the ones in the wrong, not the streamers.

Everybody is angry, but using personal attacks against the streamers (first Fengrush, now Sypher), who are players like you and have opinions like you, is just wrong.

It is true that they have a right to their opinion, but people can also have an opinion about those opinions. My opinion is that he is right. The purify synergy is OP and is the next Templar thing that needs nerfing.

Sure people can have opinions about their opinions, the problem is when people start calling them "idiots" and saying they are "ruining the game". Disgreeing is fine. I disagree with lots of stuff that both of them say, but it is not reasonable or fair to call them names because of their opinion.

Besides, this discussion is very important, even if it doesn't seem like the devs are reading it. It still has a lot of constructive feedback and I would like things to remain civil to avoid problems with the forum mods.