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The meteor change still doesnt leave all ultimates unreflectable, as stated by ZOS
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Xeven✭✭✭✭✭
✭eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
A curse once every 3.5 seconds is a whopping 1700 dps. Spam fury on top of that and we might hit 2.5k dps. No DK, ever, will be even slightly phased by that.
We need meteor. We need mag det. It's still not enough.1 -
Didgerion✭✭✭✭✭
✭Name me just one long range or short range magicka based spammable DPS ability available to a Sorc that can hit a DK.
You can't.
Who's disingenuous?
Get over Meteor. Get over Magdet. You're still holding all the cards vs sorc.
Pour sorcs...how dared ZOS create a class that counters the sorc's burts!
Oh and keeping that thought - what is the DK's ability that can burst though the sorc's shields?
2 -
eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
A curse once every 3.5 seconds is a whopping 1700 dps. Spam fury on top of that and we might hit 2.5k dps. No DK, ever, will be even slightly phased by that.
We need meteor. We need mag det. It's still not enough.
So what do you do when you see a DK? Run?:trollin:1 -
Xeven✭✭✭✭✭
✭eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
A curse once every 3.5 seconds is a whopping 1700 dps. Spam fury on top of that and we might hit 2.5k dps. No DK, ever, will be even slightly phased by that.
We need meteor. We need mag det. It's still not enough.
So what do you do when you see a DK? Run?
I will never refuse a 1v1 that happens naturally or otherwise. The terrible ones always die. The good ones like Yoyouyi only die if they *** up and let wings drop with a curse up and a frag proc. The ridiculously good ones like Saber, there is absolutely nothing I can do to them.
Otherwise it's a wash. Magsorc can not apply any pressure to a good DK.Edited by Xeven on February 15, 2016 8:23PM1 -
Xeven✭✭✭✭✭
✭Name me just one long range or short range magicka based spammable DPS ability available to a Sorc that can hit a DK.
You can't.
Who's disingenuous?
Get over Meteor. Get over Magdet. You're still holding all the cards vs sorc.
Pour sorcs...how dared ZOS create a class that counters the sorc's burts!
Oh and keeping that thought - what is the DK's ability that can burst though the sorc's shields?
Wrecking Blow, Dragon Leap.1 -
Didgerion✭✭✭✭✭
✭Name me just one long range or short range magicka based spammable DPS ability available to a Sorc that can hit a DK.
You can't.
Who's disingenuous?
Get over Meteor. Get over Magdet. You're still holding all the cards vs sorc.
Pour sorcs...how dared ZOS create a class that counters the sorc's burts!
Oh and keeping that thought - what is the DK's ability that can burst though the sorc's shields?
Wrecking Blow, Dragon Leap.
That two abilities don't even connect to a good sorc.Edited by Didgerion on February 15, 2016 9:28PM0 -
eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Is that really fair? Dragon Leap is an ultimate. For them to need an ultimate to defeat us should be somewhat telling.Name me just one long range or short range magicka based spammable DPS ability available to a Sorc that can hit a DK.
You can't.
Who's disingenuous?
Get over Meteor. Get over Magdet. You're still holding all the cards vs sorc.
Pour sorcs...how dared ZOS create a class that counters the sorc's burts!
Oh and keeping that thought - what is the DK's ability that can burst though the sorc's shields?
Wrecking Blow, Dragon Leap.
:trollin:1 -
Xeven✭✭✭✭✭
✭eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
Is that really fair? Dragon Leap is an ultimate. For them to need an ultimate to defeat us should be somewhat telling.Name me just one long range or short range magicka based spammable DPS ability available to a Sorc that can hit a DK.
You can't.
Who's disingenuous?
Get over Meteor. Get over Magdet. You're still holding all the cards vs sorc.
Pour sorcs...how dared ZOS create a class that counters the sorc's burts!
Oh and keeping that thought - what is the DK's ability that can burst though the sorc's shields?
Wrecking Blow, Dragon Leap.
Everyone good requires an ultimate burst combo to kill. Templar, DK, NB, Sorc, it doesnt matter. I don't know who you are, but if you fight any of the top players in Legend, you will never kill them without an ultimate.
And with that you have just revealed how naive you are. You don't have any experience playing at the top level of PvP, and cannot possibly speak to the validity of Meteor, or MagDet.
Good luck with the crying. Theyre not going to change it.
Edited by Xeven on February 15, 2016 8:28PM2 -
eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
Is that really fair? Dragon Leap is an ultimate. For them to need an ultimate to defeat us should be somewhat telling.Name me just one long range or short range magicka based spammable DPS ability available to a Sorc that can hit a DK.
You can't.
Who's disingenuous?
Get over Meteor. Get over Magdet. You're still holding all the cards vs sorc.
Pour sorcs...how dared ZOS create a class that counters the sorc's burts!
Oh and keeping that thought - what is the DK's ability that can burst though the sorc's shields?
Wrecking Blow, Dragon Leap.
Everyone good requires an ultimate burst combo to kill. Templar, DK, NB, Sorc, it doesnt matter. I don't know who you are, but if you fight any of the top players in Legend, you will never kill them without an ultimate.
And with that you have just revealed how naive you are. You don't have any experience playing at the top level of PvP, and cannot possibly speak to the validity of Meteor, or MagDet.
Good luck with the crying. Theyre not going to change it.
You always resort to insults and name calling when people don't agree with you. Not everyting you say is wrong, but you are incredibly myopic most of the time. You are just completely unable to see past yourself and look at the big picture. And nobody is crying about anything. You're the only one taking it to that level. I'm just asking you to be fair. And frankly you seem like a spoiled child who doesn't want to share his toys.Edited by eventide03b14a_ESO on February 15, 2016 8:33PM:trollin:4 -
RoyJade✭✭✭✭✭
✭Dk are the natural counter to sorc. In my opinion, it's fair. Sorc are really strong against Nb, Nb are good against DK, DK are good against sorc. So it was intended, but some change destroy this balance (especially with nerfs and stamina change, who bring a lot more possibility).
One build shouldn't be cookie-cutter. "Classic" magsorc aren't good against DK, but dot-based sorc are good ([EDIT : old build, non viable now] I remember my old sorc with liquid lightning, thunder staff, mines, rune cage, encase, curse, mage wrath, thunder form, caltrops and valkyn + reflect, who killed nearly every DK with dots, controls and valkyn meteor before 1.7), as stamsorc as (well, buggued WB spam is). A perfect pvp would be full of different build, each with weakness and advantage. DK are the perfect example for sorcshield, as light attack bow shield breaker's user are.Edited by RoyJade on February 15, 2016 9:11PM1 -
Xeven✭✭✭✭✭
✭It's not an insult, it's simply a fact. You don't have the experience.
You're asking me to be fair?
You think 2500 DPS is fair vs a dragon leaping, wreaking blow/fossilize/crit rush spamming tanky DK from hell?
It's not.
The argument of this thread is about meteor. If you can't handle a big boom and a rune at your feet for 3 seconds, then it is you who is crying, and it is you who is being unfair.
You're trying to make the argument about me. It's about meteor, and meteor is fine.
Edited by Xeven on February 15, 2016 8:40PM1 -
Xeven✭✭✭✭✭
✭Dk are the natural counter to sorc. In my opinion, it's fair. Sorc are really strong against Nb, Nb are good against DK, DK are good against sorc. So it was intended, but some change destroy this balance (especially with nerfs and stamina change, who bring a lot more possibility).
This is bad game design. Nobody should counter anyone at the character creation screen. It should be about wit, speed, strategy, skill etc.
Edited by Xeven on February 15, 2016 9:06PM2 -
eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It's not an insult, it's simply a fact. You don't have the experience.
You're asking me to be fair?
You think 2500 DPS is fair vs a dragon leaping, wreaking blow/fossilize/crit rush spamming tanky DK from hell?
It's not.
The argument of this thread is about meteor. If you can't handle a big boom and a rune at your feet for 3 seconds, then it is you who is crying, and it is you who is being unfair.
You're trying to make the argument about me. It's about meteor, and meteor is fine.
I never complained that meteor was too powerful. You can't even keep who are raging at straight. I said it's going to cause massive amounts of lag like it has in the past. I never die from meteor as I'm sure most sorcs don't because it barely tickles our shields and the snare is laughable if you have streak slotted. Hell you can even roll dodge out of the snare. But it does cause major lag. If you're such an experienced player how can you not remember this?:trollin:1 -
RoyJade✭✭✭✭✭
✭That's why I've tried to develop a magicka sorc who wreck my natural counter. And it's working.
Basically, classes are stronger in some roles, but they can do something else with success. It's not just your class who determine who will win and who will loose, it's your build with this class' tool and your skill. Even if it's not perfect (but better than at the beginning), I find this game design interesting.
About meteor, the main defense is a block. But some people say that a hard-cc who bypass block would be too powerful. Every classes gave something like that, so with some skill, every one can use this meteor very well. We really need to see on the live server if the game will be a spamming flying-rock fest or not.
Edit :
1.7 destroy my build, caltrops, LL and valkyn combo wasn't viable anymore. I have enough regen to break free each 5 second and dodge each 4 second, and enough to spam encase and rune prison to waste all my enemy's stamina. It still work well, even if a frag/curse burst is way more viable, sadly.Oh and by the way, youre not going to kill Yoyouyi or Saber with LOL caltrops and liquid lightning. In fact the moment you throw caltrops on a mag sorc theyre going to fossilize and demolish you for wasting all your stamina.
And I'm not a dueling player, I speak (and can speak) only about little to big-sized group. In duel, negate, atro, nova, standard… and nearly all the ultimate I love don't work, nearly only burst ultimate work well.Edited by RoyJade on February 15, 2016 8:58PM0 -
eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭That's why I've tried to develop a magicka sorc who wreck my natural counter. And it's working.
Basically, classes are stronger in some roles, but they can do something else with success. It's not just your class who determine who will win and who will loose, it's your build with this class' tool and your skill. Even if it's not perfect (but better than at the beginning), I find this game design interesting.
About meteor, the main defense is a block. But some people say that a hard-cc who bypass block would be too powerful. Every classes gave something like that, so with some skill, every one can use this meteor very well. We really need to see on the live server if the game will be a spamming flying-rock fest or not.
See even if they were to make it blockable that's not an incentive to not use it. People need a reason to not use it. If there is no risk then there is no reason not to use it.:trollin:0 -
Xeven✭✭✭✭✭
✭One build shouldn't be cookie-cutter. "Classic" magsorc aren't good against DK, but dot-based sorc are good (I remember my old sorc with liquid lightning, thunder staff, mines, rune cage, encase, curse, mage wrath, thunder form, caltrops and valkyn + reflect, who killed nearly every DK with dots, controls and valkyn meteor before 1.7), as stamsorc as (well, buggued WB spam is). A perfect pvp would be full of different build, each with weakness and advantage. DK are the perfect example for sorcshield, as light attack bow shield breaker's user are.
Youre not going to kill Yoyouyi or Saber with LOL caltrops and liquid lightning. In fact the moment you throw caltrops on a mag sorc theyre going to fossilize and demolish you for wasting all your stamina, right there in your pathetic caltrops and what's left of your mines.
Are you trolling or what? That is the most absurd strategy I have ever heard of. Sorc needs more tools vs reflect and you "Sorcs" are compounding the problem.
Edited by Xeven on February 15, 2016 9:01PM0 -
RoyJade✭✭✭✭✭
✭I've seen your edit, so copy/paste of mine :Youre not going to kill Yoyouyi or Saber with LOL caltrops and liquid lightning. In fact the moment you throw caltrops on a mag sorc theyre going to fossilize and demolish you for wasting all your stamina, right there in your pathetic caltrops and what's left of your mines.
Are you trolling or what? That is the most absurd strategy I have ever heard of.
1.7 destroy my build, caltrops, LL and valkyn combo wasn't viable anymore. It's not an actual build.
I actually have enough regen to break free each 5 second and dodge each 4 second, and enough to spam encase and rune prison to waste all my enemy's stamina. It still work well, even if a frag/curse burst is way more viable, sadly.
And I'm not a dueling player, I speak (and can speak) only about little to big-sized group. In duel, negate, atro, nova, standard… and nearly all the ultimate I love don't work, nearly only burst ultimate work well.1 -
Xeven✭✭✭✭✭
✭I've seen your edit, so copy/paste of mine :Youre not going to kill Yoyouyi or Saber with LOL caltrops and liquid lightning. In fact the moment you throw caltrops on a mag sorc theyre going to fossilize and demolish you for wasting all your stamina, right there in your pathetic caltrops and what's left of your mines.
Are you trolling or what? That is the most absurd strategy I have ever heard of.
1.7 destroy my build, caltrops, LL and valkyn combo wasn't viable anymore. It's not an actual build.
I actually have enough regen to break free each 5 second and dodge each 4 second, and enough to spam encase and rune prison to waste all my enemy's stamina. It still work well, even if a frag/curse burst is way more viable, sadly.
And I'm not a dueling player, I speak (and can speak) only about little to big-sized group. In duel, negate, atro, nova, standard… and nearly all the ultimate I love don't work, nearly only burst ultimate work well.
Then please dont suggest this as a viable counter to reflect. Naive will believe it, and spread this misinformation further.1 -
eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I've seen your edit, so copy/paste of mine :Youre not going to kill Yoyouyi or Saber with LOL caltrops and liquid lightning. In fact the moment you throw caltrops on a mag sorc theyre going to fossilize and demolish you for wasting all your stamina, right there in your pathetic caltrops and what's left of your mines.
Are you trolling or what? That is the most absurd strategy I have ever heard of.
1.7 destroy my build, caltrops, LL and valkyn combo wasn't viable anymore. It's not an actual build.
I actually have enough regen to break free each 5 second and dodge each 4 second, and enough to spam encase and rune prison to waste all my enemy's stamina. It still work well, even if a frag/curse burst is way more viable, sadly.
And I'm not a dueling player, I speak (and can speak) only about little to big-sized group. In duel, negate, atro, nova, standard… and nearly all the ultimate I love don't work, nearly only burst ultimate work well.
Then please dont suggest this as a viable counter to reflect. Naive will believe it, and spread this misinformation further.
I don't really think that was his point. Insulting someone else doesn't prove you right by the way. It would be far more productive if you could hold a conversation about this in a polite tone. There are things I agree with you about but I also feel like you're being short sighted. You have to look at the whole picture.:trollin:0 -
RoyJade✭✭✭✭✭
✭I've said "before 1.7", but you're right, some people don't read everything. I've edit it to be more precise.
It don't change the problem, it enlighten an other one : the non-viability of numerous build because of the too strong burst build meta. It force every magsorc to use frag, every bow user to use snipe, nearly every stam user to use WB if not NB, every magDK to use whip… everyone need a fast burst ability, and only that. I hope that the new change on purge way and shield will bring back dots on the front scene, but the game still need some change (life and armor utility, perhaps?).2 -
Xeven✭✭✭✭✭
✭I don't have the time or the will to word this in a way that you deem politically correct.
If you actually had any arguments worth acknowledging we might actually have a conversation. So far you've done nothing but disregard the fact that Magsorc has no viable counter to wings at the highest level of play.
I already know what you want to say. I've read the other threads. Meteor spam. The far reaching consequences of it yadda yadda.
I don't care about that. Let it rain meteors.1 -
eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I've said "before 1.7", but you're right, some people don't read everything. I've edit it to be more precise.
It don't change the problem, it enlighten an other one : the non-viability of numerous build because of the too strong burst build meta. It force every magsorc to use frag, every bow user to use snipe, nearly every stam user to use WB if not NB, every magDK to use whip… everyone need a fast burst ability, and only that. I hope that the new change on purge way and shield will bring back dots on the front scene, but the game still need some change (life and armor utility, perhaps?).
That's mostly because they nerfed our damage. Burst damage was easy to achieve in 1.6. I think that's what some people miss.:trollin:0 -
RoyJade✭✭✭✭✭
✭But burst damage in 1.6 with 1.7 stuff might be insane. Burst heal, burst damage, bursted defense/life, everything is a fast burst. Dots are purged or ignored, mitigation apart from block is useless, everything it's about burst. And it's where meteor shine so much.
Elloa say on the french forum that they want to boost the tanking role in pvp, and not just by fassala's set. I hope she's right, and I hope burst would be diminished but not dots/hots like in 1.7.0 -
BuggeX✭✭✭✭✭
✭Name me just one long range or short range magicka based spammable DPS ability available to a Sorc that can hit a DK.
You can't.
Who's disingenuous?
Get over Meteor. Get over Magdet. You're still holding all the cards vs sorc.
tell me one magicka based spamable dps skill for DKs which can bring a 30k sorc shild down.
and btw, you could have so many ways to kill a DK, lighning stuf, cant be reflected,
Bol would absorb the reflected Meteor, absorb magicka would also do and on topo of that it instant heal you full,
but better run arround with DW and cry...Edited by BuggeX on February 16, 2016 7:08AM#makemagickadkgreataigan
#givemeaexecute
#ineedheal
#betterhotfixgrindspots1 -
Oakmontowls_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭But burst damage in 1.6 with 1.7 stuff might be insane. Burst heal, burst damage, bursted defense/life, everything is a fast burst. Dots are purged or ignored, mitigation apart from block is useless, everything it's about burst. And it's where meteor shine so much.
Elloa say on the french forum that they want to boost the tanking role in pvp, and not just by fassala's set. I hope she's right, and I hope burst would be diminished but not dots/hots like in 1.7.
They had said something about changing the guard skill in the pvp trees to allow you to mitigate incoming damage to a target in the last eso live.0 -
its NOT an aoe, its a single target ult that has an aoe effect. no target, no leap
an there is other ults that can be dodged to, crescent sweep can for sure0 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Name me just one long range or short range magicka based spammable DPS ability available to a Sorc that can hit a DK.
You can't.
Who's disingenuous?
Get over Meteor. Get over Magdet. You're still holding all the cards vs sorc.
tell me one magicka based spamable dps skill for DKs which can bring a 30k sorc shild down.
and btw, you could have so many ways to kill a DK, lighning stuf, cant be reflected,
Bol would absorb the reflected Meteor, absorb magicka would also do and on topo of that it instant heal you full,
but better run arround with DW and cry...
BoL doesn't absorb reflected projectiles.DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU0 -
Leandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
So you really want all Werewolf attacks to be unavoidable and unreflectable?Strider_Roshin wrote: »Can they make it so that death stroke can't be dodged? Right now it's the only ultimate that's dodge-able just like meteor is the only ultimate that's reflect-able ;-)
Overload is both reflectable and dodgable. I'd like to see the tears if they changed that.0 -
yodased✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Name me just one long range or short range magicka based spammable DPS ability available to a Sorc that can hit a DK.
You can't.
Who's disingenuous?
Get over Meteor. Get over Magdet. You're still holding all the cards vs sorc.
Crushing shock. Lightning staff. Healing staff.Edited by yodased on February 20, 2016 6:28PMTl;dr really weigh the fun you have in game vs the business practices you are supporting.0