Official Feedback Thread for Templars

blackcom90

tinythinker wrote: »

blackcom90 wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

blackcom90 wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

blackcom90 wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

Sunah wrote: »

A great spell to add would be a healing fountain type HoT. You place it down and it shoots off tiny balls of light into the air to heal allies nearby (short radius maybe 10m). The heal wouldn't be anything amazing but it would be extra "padding" and just a cool new spell to play with. It would also trigger spell power cure as well. Maybe let people run up and activate it too for some mana or stam, whichever I lowest at the time. Put that effect on a 10 secs cd like shards and call it a day. Boom, more happy healers.

Would a rune-covered Templar acting like a healing fountain work?

Great idea... but with eso dx overlapping a cool rune and an armor will probably crash the game. Max you can hope for it's the same graphic effect of the red/blue bubble of banished vet.

They have those new glow paint costumes for Thieve's Guild, not looking for anything that would be graphics intensive. The artists seem to be able too make costume stuff that doesn't tax things too bad. Not like with all of the particle effect abilities. Have them do the body runes. Cool yes, so cool it lags us to death, no.

They are a static effect on a texture. You instead want a dynamic particellar effect on a 3d layer that should overlap with the armor texture... A lot like the camo hunter, but more extensive and intensive... They are still trying to fix camo...

I was thinking of something like a tabbard, only obviously not a tabbard, but I admit I don't know why that is the same as or different than Camo Hunter in detailed terms (I get that one is static and one is dynamically rendered and that one takes more resources to draw/redraw). The reason I mentioned costumes is that I recall one of the artists talking a few months ago about adding layers so you could do something like paint costumes. Extra layers like that could be used to add something, yes?

with that approach you can just have a second static layer of paint over you armor.
not really beautiful i dare to say.
It' really a shame how 'till eso will reach dx12, the havok engine will be update and used to the full extent of it's potentiality this game will never have a graphic like bdo (i name bdo because it allow what you are asking).

Havok it's really a powerful engine, but now it's a little castrated by the game itself.

http://www.havok.com

Hmm, well, that's why I was thinking of what they were doing with the new costumes as an example of what could be possible with runes, but I'd rather have what you're talking about with the dx12 upgrade. Something else to keep "recommending" to ESO through various channels. But is their hesitation because too many players might have outdated computers?

To spice up thing i think that adding Havok clothes would be really cool in the game.

https://youtu.be/7k_r9EkPFb4

If you look carefully at eso you can see that the game has a lot of place to improve (on the graphic)... we can't even swim in this game and the grass it's static.

I think they just rushed the graphic aspect of the game and now they are catching up to it.
In a recent interview one of the graph dev explained how all the "mist" in eso it's there to cover low detail textures that they will gradually replace with high def one. Same problems with the LOD.

Plus, the game has grat setting for the player that have old pc. The minimum setting will not change if they increase the detail in game.

Better wait a little more to see if the devs will give us more Graphic options to be on par with other mmorpg

dodgehopper_ESO

tinythinker wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

Templars are designed to stand tall
and not let people come into their house

Could you please supply the exact quote of what Wrobel said?

The particular excerpt you are requesting comes at the 01:14:13 mark in the video and transcribes as:

"I'm more about putting down areas of protection and I want to stand in these, and like this is, this is sort of like my house and if you come into my house it's gonna be bad for you" instead of "I'm really good at running away or whatever." So it helps distinguish the Templar from the other classes

That quote came in answer to a question about why Templars don't have better mobility/speed buffs, and the quotation marks indicate the perspective of an ideal Templar from Wrobel's perspective.

For all comments about Templars from the recent episode of ESO Live, except for the odd mention of a Templar ability here or there that was used an example for a different topic, a partial transcript of Wrobel's interview is provided below. The grammar is intact as spoken, though many extraneous "umms" and "uhhs" and murmurs of understanding or approval from the hosts have been omitted.

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Discussion of classes on ESO Live, Feb 12th 2016, focusing on Templar

Transcript begins at 00:25:22

Eric Wrobel: Next thing I wanna talk about is the classes in general and how they relate to each other and how that relationship has sort of changed over time. Initially when we were designing the classes and creating all the abilities our goal was just to make cool stuff. You know, like, just make a bunch of abilities, have some cool effects on 'em, like make so it's a good time casting the abilities, and call it a day, pretty much, right?

And I think we succeeded in doing that, right? Like the classes are a lot of fun. They can do a lot of of really cool things. But over time we've been moving towards making it so that every class can fulfill every role. And the reason we're doing that is it sorta supports more of an Elder Scrolls style game of "go anywhere and do anything". So we don't want you to be locked into "Oh I picked this class so that means I can only tank" or "I picked this class I have to be a healer", right?

Like we want ev--we want you to just--just pick a class because that's fun, right? Like, "I wanna breath fire", right? Or you know, "I wanna calla bunch of storms", right? And that's why you pick your class, and, and not for a specific thing you're going to be doing in the game. 'Cause you don't, you don't really know what thing, what part you're gonna like in our game, 'cause tanking in our game is different than in other games, healing is different than in other games:

Jessica Folsom: Or you may wanna switch it up and some point.

Eric Wrobel: Yep, absolutely.

So the changes with this update and updates in the future as well--we want to make it so that every class is able to fulfill every role, so that's like... For example, we gave Dragonknights some more things to make them better at fulfilling the healing role.

Jessica Folsom: And you'd still have to specialize into certain champion points, and class abilities, and passives if you wanted to specialize in a certain role but you'd have the ability to re-spec if you wanted to.

Eric Wrobel: Yep, absolutely.

Gina Bruno: So one of the recent changes that was put on the PTS build for Thieve's Guild was Breath of Life.

Eric Wrobel: Yes, we updated that.

Gina Bruno: And we know that has been a very hot topic. So did you want to kind of address that a little bit further from what we put on the forums?

Eric Wrobel: Yes, absolutely.

Gina Bruno: Good!

Eric Wrobel: Nawww, next topic. I don't--naw, I'm good...

Gina Bruno: Next!

Eric Wrobel: Uhhhh, yeah. Breath of Life is an extremely powerful ability and it's a very--sort of one of these class-defining abilities, that like, "Oh yeah it's really cool to play Templar, cause I can cast this heal and it's--it's a super-strong, like huge heal value", right? You can cast it while you're moving, you can cast it instantly, but then also with Breath of Life it was healing three targets. So not only was it doing all these things but it was a huge single-target and a huge AoE heal. So you didn't need to combine it with any other ability really. Like, you just need that and you're good to go, don't worry about anything else.

Jessica Folsom: Kind of a single go to...

Eric Wrobel: Yeah, yeah. It's like your one-stop shop for healing needs. So what we did with this update is... we wanted you to have a little bit more breadth of ability usage if you wanted to be really dedicated to the healing role . So we started by making it so that their thirty percent healing bonus from their passives now gives them the Major Healing buff. So this means that now the--all the Restoration Staff abilities are also really good for Templar. 'Cause they all-all get that buff applied to them. And that, that thirty--that twenty five percent healing bonus, it applies to you now specifically instead of applying to your allies. So that means you just have to be standing in your area of protection and your allies don't have to anymore. So they can be running and going, and you know, you know...their hair's on fire...

Jessica Folsom: So you have DPS running all over the place...

Eric Wrobel: Yeah, you just need to make sure you're somewhere in that circle and you'll get that healing bonus applied. So, you'll, you'll end up be--be getting more heals out of your Breath of Lifes, you know, but against the, these smaller number of targets, so it makes it actually a little bit better as a single target nuke. Which is sort of the role we wanted to give for that. And then we have the Healing Ritual ability for the Templar which we improved as a really good AoE heal. And the cast time is now reduced, so it's easier to, to use that. 'Cause in general the burst damage happens really quickly, like you die really fast, right? So we wanted you to have time to hit and actually he-you know heal someone instead of like, "I hit the ability and I'm like waiting, and I'm waiting, and then they die before it goes off", right?

And in general, like, we'll definitely be evaluating this ability to see if it's sort of effective enough. It's definitely a really big heal and it heals a lot of people, so it is, is much better for healing a group than Rushed Ceremony but we wanna make sure that it's also still useful in a lot of situations. So we may end up in the future tweaking the radius so it's a little bit easier to hit allies if they're kind of running all over the place.

And, and then we are also, because the Restoration Staff is now usable as a Templar. You know, you could use Grand Healing as your AoE if wanted to to fulfill that role, either. So we kind of just wanted to give them more choices instead of being, like, "You're a Templar you have to only use Templar abilities."

Jessica Folsom: More tools in the toolbox.

Eric Wrobel: Yeah, absolutely.

Jessica Folsom: And it sounds like the change to Breath of Life was also, um, the goal was to add more diversity to different types of game play, different types of healing situations, fights that were maybe longer but sustained versus things that required burst heals, would, is that kind of what you were going for?

Eric Wrobel: Yeah, and also keep in mind we made these changes before we started doing the balance testing for this update. So, like, we tested trials, and we tested dungeons, and we tested PvP, with, with these values in mind, right? So it's not like, "Oh, we're just gonna like slip this in because this ability's kinda too good", right? Like the, the whole update we were planning on making this change, and we are, we are really happy with the vet now. This feels more like a single-target heal and you wanna use it in those burst situations.

Jessica Folsom: OK.

Gina Bruno: Right on.



****Omission of non-Templar discussion*****



Transcript resumes at 00:32:23

Eric Wrobel: We're going to go through every single ability, and every single morph, and make sure "Oh yeah, these are compelling morph choices", and you know, that, this is definitely an ability that I wanna cast, and that, you know, "I have an interesting set of abilities to use" instead of like, oh some things like Breath of Life where it's like "Oh I just use this one ability the whole time and like that's kind of boring."

Jessica Folsom: OK.

Eric Wrobel:So yeah.

Jessica Folsom: So a lot more parity between the magicka choices.

Eric Wrobel: Yeah. Yeah.



****Omission of non-Templar discussion*****



Transcript resumes at 00:51:31

Gina Bruno: Um, regarding--we're you gonna say something? I'm sorry.

Jessica Folsom: No, no, no, I like his answer.

Gina Bruno: Oh.

Eric Wrobel: Yes! I got a fan. It starts with one.

Gina Bruno: Um, regarding rapid re-removers--oh God...

Eric Wrobel: See!? I told you!

Gina Bruno: Dammit! I did that earlier!

Rapid--

Eric Wrobel: She told me she didn't say that.

Gina Bruno: I didn't and now it's in my head!

Rapid maneuvers, for God's sake.

Eric Wrobel: I went four levels deep to plant that idea in your head.

Gina Bruno: You probably did. That's all I'm gonna be saying forever now.

Rapid maneuvers. Since healing is clearly--

Eric Wrobel: That's an ability in our game.

Gina Bruno: It is.

--is clearly a Templar survivabilty, this players believes they will undoubtedly heal someone else and remove their Rapids. Are you comfortable with this change affecting a Templar far more than say a Sorcerer who relies on self-shields instead of healing for survivability?

Eric Wrobel: Yeah that's, that's a really good detailed thought out question which is--

Gina Bruno: It was actually longer but I kind of cut it up a little bit...

Eric Wrobel: Kind of smashed it together.

Gina Bruno: Yeah I did I smashed it.

Eric Wrobel: Don't worry I got, I got the point. Yeah in, in general, that sort of goes to our philosophy of not wanting to homogenize the classes. And yeah, like they all play different and some classes are better in some situations and some classes are better than others. And sort of with that particular healing ability that sort of makes the Honor the Dead morph a little bit better, 'cause that, that morph only hits one target, right? So, you're more likely to just heal yourself with it. Especially if you're low health and running away, whereas with the other morph it's an AoE and it's gonna hit two different targets. So if you heal someone else with it, yeah it's, it's gonna take it off.

So yeah, like that-that's a really good point and yeah we're definitely OK with it, but yeah, like, that-that that's an example of like a really good detail of all these changes that we made that, you know, we didn't initially you know think of every single situation in which every single ability gets cast. And yeah, like, that's the one of the things were going to keep monitoring and taking a look at. But yeah, it's a good question.



****Omission of non-Templar discussion*****



Transcript resumes at 01:12:32

Eric Wrobel: Um, what was your other question that I was rude about earlier?

Gina Bruno: Oh that's OK! Um, if you have any intention on bringing back Blinding Flashes?

Eric Wrobel: Um, yeah that was definitely a super-powerful ability, which was... there were sort of multiple reasons why we took it out. Also we don't have really good feedback in our game for when you miss. Like, it just, it feels bad, 'cause you just like swing your weapon and you're like, "Well I didn't hit him, what happened?" And you're like "I'm pretty sure I was moused over him but it didn't hit him, so like I'm not sure. Like was there lag there? Was I not targeting him?" Like, it's kind just of confusing in a game with the kind of targeting system that we have.

And I think specifically what they're looking for is an ability that'll help with tanking as a Templar, right? So that-that's something we can definitely look into, like, you know, an ability that sort of still gives that type of function but sort of like works better within the confines of the game that we have.

Jessica Folsom: That makes sense.

OK, so we talked about Templars a bit earlier--

Eric Wrobel: Yeah, I remember that. It's a good time.

Jessica Folsom: --and one of the big things they seem to be asking about is mobility boosts, specifically for stamina Templars. Is that something that we're looking at?

Eric Wrobel: Yeah, and that sort of goes back to the, making every class feel different and feel unique. So yeah, Templars don't have that buff. And it's the Major Expedition buff, to be clear about that. And yeah, it's an awesome buff, it's, it's really powerful, but, that makes the Templar play very differently of "I'm more about putting down areas of protection and I want to stand in these, and like this is, this is sort of like my house and if you come into my house it's gonna be bad for you" instead of "I'm really good at running away or whatever." So it helps distinguish the Templar from the other classes but to... slightly, sort of... lower the disadvantage you get from not having that buff.

So what we've done with this update is that, Major Expedition, instead of giving you a forty percent movement buff, it gives you thirty percent, and sprinting now gives you a forty percent instead of a thirty percent, so we just sort of flip-flopped that. Because everyone has the sprint ability. And then it also means that the total maximum speed you can achieve is still the same, right? You can still get the 70% movement speed like before, so you won't be that slower.

And then it makes it--there's, there's some thing where you can get like reduced sprint cost and stuff like that--so we realize not everyone is going to be pouring tons and tons of points into that, right? But it makes it slightly better to have reduced sprint cost 'cause it's, it's more likely that you'll want to be sprinting in combat and it's actually a pretty useful thing to be doing. So that way Templar aren't quite as far down in terms of mobility battle and like how fast someone can catch them, or if they're running away how far they can get before someone catches them.

Jessica Folsom: OK.
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None of this factors the advantage of being a mobile platform while attacking. He's not recognizing the value of being able to attack (Ie move fast while not sprinting which locks attacks out, vs. high move spd and attacks).

blackcom90

pffff... @dodgehopper_ESO you just don't understand... We don't need to move to attack... every enemy want to steal our house and came right to use and, even if the enemies it's dying, it will not escape.. it will just stay there to wait for an eventual death.

Especially the stamplar will just need to stay there and wait... they will receive the skill "sticky rune" and every enemies will die like a fly.

It will be fun to watch! A bunch of templar will cast the rune in pvp and the enemies will form a line to enter one at the time inside every house. He said that the templar will be immortal in his house so every enemies will commit certain suicide.

Ah, i forgot. we can leave the house for 6-8 sec... we will be op

#SARCASMREKT

Razorback174

35 pages full of feedback and more alternative suggestions. And not a single dev response. The silence from ZoS is deafening.

Well then, guess if I had any doubts of unsubbing, they're long gone. I've seen pages and pages of so many reasonable and beneficial changes to this class. Not even in this thread but ones from MONTHS ago. And all they tell us is "defend your house!" With WHAT exactly?!

Shards? Not enough damage, negligible CC
Blazing Shield? Absolutely worthless in its current state
Blinding Flashes? Haha, if only...
Extended Ritual? Decent for some heals, but no offensive capability whatsoever.
Rune Focus? Seriously, a stationary defensive buff the size of a ritz cracker?

If they're going to absolutely destroy the healing role and then try to make us stand our ground, give us SOMETHING to do it with. As it stands now, attempting to do anything like that in PvP OR PvE is a surefire way to get you killed. You'll be CC'ed to no end in PvP, and end up in one of those nice little red circles (you know, the ones that will kill you instantly) in any group content.

In the time since this Wrobel fellow has been here, I've seen nothing but nerfs to anyone who tries to tank or heal. And I'm sure I'm not the only one noticing how rare these roles are when trying to find a pledge group. Now it's coming down to nothing but DPS. I guess it should have been obvious when they made Maelstrom. Might as well just skip the tank and heals (which seem to be nothing more than dead weight now) with 4 DPS and just hope you kill everything fast enough. Heck, just bring along any sorc with the new Matriarch heal and you should be good.

For those of you that remain, I wish you luck. Maybe one day they'll actually listen and give us changes that are beneficial, and not nerfs that end up gutting the class (a la Dragonknight).

RIP my V16 templar healer. You will be missed...

snoogadooch

I just like how all endgame content at this point is designed to challenge players by forcing them to do their jobs while being highly mobile. All raids, IC dungeons, and especially vMSA and you design a character to be a "don't come in my house" turtle. RIP. If you're not moving, you're dying.

dodgehopper_ESO

tinythinker wrote: »

TL;DR -- Make Restoring Light A Mobile Rune Based Skill Line

In case I get in another theory crafting mood, since so many experienced Templars keep popping into this thread, what do you think of this...

Someone started a poll thread and offered these options:

Why did YOU create a Templar?

• I wanted to be a sun-wielding Spartan of fire and light, blazing around the battlefield smiting foes with a searing spear.
• I wanted to be a sun-calling holy monk, sniping and burning foes to a crisp from a distance.
• I wanted to be a heavy armor battle healer, mending wounds and raising allies from the dead while imbuing them with my righteous power.
• I wanted to be a rune-hugging turtle healer, a light-slinging meat shield who "stands in my house" while the useful classes do actual work on the battlefield.

Clearly that last one was a jab at what Wrobel talked about in the most recent ESO Live. But I reworked it a little to make this;

• A rune-guarded healer, a light-weaver who buffs allies and weakens foes on the battlefield.

Now I think many of us, including me, have suggested changes that would help bring the first three from the original list to life. But that last one, the one I took from a snark to a decent-sounding option...

Writing that brought the idea of a rune-based skill line and associated images to mind. Images of spells that formed glowing runes on the caster as well as, in some cases, the ground. So let that kind of image sink in a moment. A caster with their armor marked and their face covered in wicked looking runes. (Hey, in PvP enemies are gonna spot a Templar quick anyway so why not look cool and with style? And if our ideas for buffing Templar were ever halfway implemented those markings could server as a warning.)

Now, as for the functional aspect, the mechanics, three types sprung to mind:

Body runes only that flash when you cast.

Instant cast, immediate effect, one off spells like Rushed Ceremony.

Body runes only that remain for the duration of the spell.

They are proximity based AoE "in waiting" spells that visibly "tag" players in need who come within range. That is, allies can run within range and get a blessing (buff and/or heal) or you can run to them. Closest thing currently in the game is the new Cauterize morph of Inferno for DK. I'm thinking it could be part of a revision of or a replacement for Healing Ritual (there would be no self-snare, it would be instant cast). This would also be the rune-type for Restoring Aura/Radiant Aura, whereas Repentance would be the first type (body runes that flash only when you cast).

Body *and* ground runes that remain for the duration of the spell.

They are active AoE spells, such as Cleansing Ritual and Rune Focus. Basically, you press a button to activate, but while inside the circle you can press it again to pick it up and move it. Press the key again to drop it at a new location. I've advocated for making Rune Focus last longer and have a larger radius which would fit well with this new idea. Of course, you may wonder why you woudn't just recast it rather than pick it up and move it, and the answer is that depends on what I come up with for these spells if I pursue the idea further.

If you like it or want to see this fleshed out more, let me know with comments and/or comment ratings. If you hate it and want it to never be spoken of again, oh well. But I especially like the second rune type since the radius for an ability can still be a *bit* on the smaller but because the Templar can be mobile with it that matters less. If enough of you like the idea or at least want to see what it would look like worked on a bit more, I'll start a new thread when I get the time. Thanks for reading.

It could be interesting.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

Templars are designed to stand tall
and not let people come into their house

Could you please supply the exact quote of what Wrobel said?

The particular excerpt you are requesting comes at the 01:14:13 mark in the video and transcribes as:

"I'm more about putting down areas of protection and I want to stand in these, and like this is, this is sort of like my house and if you come into my house it's gonna be bad for you" instead of "I'm really good at running away or whatever." So it helps distinguish the Templar from the other classes

That quote came in answer to a question about why Templars don't have better mobility/speed buffs, and the quotation marks indicate the perspective of an ideal Templar from Wrobel's perspective.

For all comments about Templars from the recent episode of ESO Live, except for the odd mention of a Templar ability here or there that was used an example for a different topic, a partial transcript of Wrobel's interview is provided below. The grammar is intact as spoken, though many extraneous "umms" and "uhhs" and murmurs of understanding or approval from the hosts have been omitted.

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Discussion of classes on ESO Live, Feb 12th 2016, focusing on Templar

Transcript begins at 00:25:22

Eric Wrobel: Next thing I wanna talk about is the classes in general and how they relate to each other and how that relationship has sort of changed over time. Initially when we were designing the classes and creating all the abilities our goal was just to make cool stuff. You know, like, just make a bunch of abilities, have some cool effects on 'em, like make so it's a good time casting the abilities, and call it a day, pretty much, right?

And I think we succeeded in doing that, right? Like the classes are a lot of fun. They can do a lot of of really cool things. But over time we've been moving towards making it so that every class can fulfill every role. And the reason we're doing that is it sorta supports more of an Elder Scrolls style game of "go anywhere and do anything". So we don't want you to be locked into "Oh I picked this class so that means I can only tank" or "I picked this class I have to be a healer", right?

Like we want ev--we want you to just--just pick a class because that's fun, right? Like, "I wanna breath fire", right? Or you know, "I wanna calla bunch of storms", right? And that's why you pick your class, and, and not for a specific thing you're going to be doing in the game. 'Cause you don't, you don't really know what thing, what part you're gonna like in our game, 'cause tanking in our game is different than in other games, healing is different than in other games:

Jessica Folsom: Or you may wanna switch it up and some point.

Eric Wrobel: Yep, absolutely.

So the changes with this update and updates in the future as well--we want to make it so that every class is able to fulfill every role, so that's like... For example, we gave Dragonknights some more things to make them better at fulfilling the healing role.

Jessica Folsom: And you'd still have to specialize into certain champion points, and class abilities, and passives if you wanted to specialize in a certain role but you'd have the ability to re-spec if you wanted to.

Eric Wrobel: Yep, absolutely.

Gina Bruno: So one of the recent changes that was put on the PTS build for Thieve's Guild was Breath of Life.

Eric Wrobel: Yes, we updated that.

Gina Bruno: And we know that has been a very hot topic. So did you want to kind of address that a little bit further from what we put on the forums?

Eric Wrobel: Yes, absolutely.

Gina Bruno: Good!

Eric Wrobel: Nawww, next topic. I don't--naw, I'm good...

Gina Bruno: Next!

Eric Wrobel: Uhhhh, yeah. Breath of Life is an extremely powerful ability and it's a very--sort of one of these class-defining abilities, that like, "Oh yeah it's really cool to play Templar, cause I can cast this heal and it's--it's a super-strong, like huge heal value", right? You can cast it while you're moving, you can cast it instantly, but then also with Breath of Life it was healing three targets. So not only was it doing all these things but it was a huge single-target and a huge AoE heal. So you didn't need to combine it with any other ability really. Like, you just need that and you're good to go, don't worry about anything else.

Jessica Folsom: Kind of a single go to...

Eric Wrobel: Yeah, yeah. It's like your one-stop shop for healing needs. So what we did with this update is... we wanted you to have a little bit more breadth of ability usage if you wanted to be really dedicated to the healing role . So we started by making it so that their thirty percent healing bonus from their passives now gives them the Major Healing buff. So this means that now the--all the Restoration Staff abilities are also really good for Templar. 'Cause they all-all get that buff applied to them. And that, that thirty--that twenty five percent healing bonus, it applies to you now specifically instead of applying to your allies. So that means you just have to be standing in your area of protection and your allies don't have to anymore. So they can be running and going, and you know, you know...their hair's on fire...

Jessica Folsom: So you have DPS running all over the place...

Eric Wrobel: Yeah, you just need to make sure you're somewhere in that circle and you'll get that healing bonus applied. So, you'll, you'll end up be--be getting more heals out of your Breath of Lifes, you know, but against the, these smaller number of targets, so it makes it actually a little bit better as a single target nuke. Which is sort of the role we wanted to give for that. And then we have the Healing Ritual ability for the Templar which we improved as a really good AoE heal. And the cast time is now reduced, so it's easier to, to use that. 'Cause in general the burst damage happens really quickly, like you die really fast, right? So we wanted you to have time to hit and actually he-you know heal someone instead of like, "I hit the ability and I'm like waiting, and I'm waiting, and then they die before it goes off", right?

And in general, like, we'll definitely be evaluating this ability to see if it's sort of effective enough. It's definitely a really big heal and it heals a lot of people, so it is, is much better for healing a group than Rushed Ceremony but we wanna make sure that it's also still useful in a lot of situations. So we may end up in the future tweaking the radius so it's a little bit easier to hit allies if they're kind of running all over the place.

And, and then we are also, because the Restoration Staff is now usable as a Templar. You know, you could use Grand Healing as your AoE if wanted to to fulfill that role, either. So we kind of just wanted to give them more choices instead of being, like, "You're a Templar you have to only use Templar abilities."

Jessica Folsom: More tools in the toolbox.

Eric Wrobel: Yeah, absolutely.

Jessica Folsom: And it sounds like the change to Breath of Life was also, um, the goal was to add more diversity to different types of game play, different types of healing situations, fights that were maybe longer but sustained versus things that required burst heals, would, is that kind of what you were going for?

Eric Wrobel: Yeah, and also keep in mind we made these changes before we started doing the balance testing for this update. So, like, we tested trials, and we tested dungeons, and we tested PvP, with, with these values in mind, right? So it's not like, "Oh, we're just gonna like slip this in because this ability's kinda too good", right? Like the, the whole update we were planning on making this change, and we are, we are really happy with the vet now. This feels more like a single-target heal and you wanna use it in those burst situations.

Jessica Folsom: OK.

Gina Bruno: Right on.



****Omission of non-Templar discussion*****



Transcript resumes at 00:32:23

Eric Wrobel: We're going to go through every single ability, and every single morph, and make sure "Oh yeah, these are compelling morph choices", and you know, that, this is definitely an ability that I wanna cast, and that, you know, "I have an interesting set of abilities to use" instead of like, oh some things like Breath of Life where it's like "Oh I just use this one ability the whole time and like that's kind of boring."

Jessica Folsom: OK.

Eric Wrobel:So yeah.

Jessica Folsom: So a lot more parity between the magicka choices.

Eric Wrobel: Yeah. Yeah.



****Omission of non-Templar discussion*****



Transcript resumes at 00:51:31

Gina Bruno: Um, regarding--we're you gonna say something? I'm sorry.

Jessica Folsom: No, no, no, I like his answer.

Gina Bruno: Oh.

Eric Wrobel: Yes! I got a fan. It starts with one.

Gina Bruno: Um, regarding rapid re-removers--oh God...

Eric Wrobel: See!? I told you!

Gina Bruno: Dammit! I did that earlier!

Rapid--

Eric Wrobel: She told me she didn't say that.

Gina Bruno: I didn't and now it's in my head!

Rapid maneuvers, for God's sake.

Eric Wrobel: I went four levels deep to plant that idea in your head.

Gina Bruno: You probably did. That's all I'm gonna be saying forever now.

Rapid maneuvers. Since healing is clearly--

Eric Wrobel: That's an ability in our game.

Gina Bruno: It is.

--is clearly a Templar survivabilty, this players believes they will undoubtedly heal someone else and remove their Rapids. Are you comfortable with this change affecting a Templar far more than say a Sorcerer who relies on self-shields instead of healing for survivability?

Eric Wrobel: Yeah that's, that's a really good detailed thought out question which is--

Gina Bruno: It was actually longer but I kind of cut it up a little bit...

Eric Wrobel: Kind of smashed it together.

Gina Bruno: Yeah I did I smashed it.

Eric Wrobel: Don't worry I got, I got the point. Yeah in, in general, that sort of goes to our philosophy of not wanting to homogenize the classes. And yeah, like they all play different and some classes are better in some situations and some classes are better than others. And sort of with that particular healing ability that sort of makes the Honor the Dead morph a little bit better, 'cause that, that morph only hits one target, right? So, you're more likely to just heal yourself with it. Especially if you're low health and running away, whereas with the other morph it's an AoE and it's gonna hit two different targets. So if you heal someone else with it, yeah it's, it's gonna take it off.

So yeah, like that-that's a really good point and yeah we're definitely OK with it, but yeah, like, that-that that's an example of like a really good detail of all these changes that we made that, you know, we didn't initially you know think of every single situation in which every single ability gets cast. And yeah, like, that's the one of the things were going to keep monitoring and taking a look at. But yeah, it's a good question.



****Omission of non-Templar discussion*****



Transcript resumes at 01:12:32

Eric Wrobel: Um, what was your other question that I was rude about earlier?

Gina Bruno: Oh that's OK! Um, if you have any intention on bringing back Blinding Flashes?

Eric Wrobel: Um, yeah that was definitely a super-powerful ability, which was... there were sort of multiple reasons why we took it out. Also we don't have really good feedback in our game for when you miss. Like, it just, it feels bad, 'cause you just like swing your weapon and you're like, "Well I didn't hit him, what happened?" And you're like "I'm pretty sure I was moused over him but it didn't hit him, so like I'm not sure. Like was there lag there? Was I not targeting him?" Like, it's kind just of confusing in a game with the kind of targeting system that we have.

And I think specifically what they're looking for is an ability that'll help with tanking as a Templar, right? So that-that's something we can definitely look into, like, you know, an ability that sort of still gives that type of function but sort of like works better within the confines of the game that we have.

Jessica Folsom: That makes sense.

OK, so we talked about Templars a bit earlier--

Eric Wrobel: Yeah, I remember that. It's a good time.

Jessica Folsom: --and one of the big things they seem to be asking about is mobility boosts, specifically for stamina Templars. Is that something that we're looking at?

Eric Wrobel: Yeah, and that sort of goes back to the, making every class feel different and feel unique. So yeah, Templars don't have that buff. And it's the Major Expedition buff, to be clear about that. And yeah, it's an awesome buff, it's, it's really powerful, but, that makes the Templar play very differently of "I'm more about putting down areas of protection and I want to stand in these, and like this is, this is sort of like my house and if you come into my house it's gonna be bad for you" instead of "I'm really good at running away or whatever." So it helps distinguish the Templar from the other classes but to... slightly, sort of... lower the disadvantage you get from not having that buff.

So what we've done with this update is that, Major Expedition, instead of giving you a forty percent movement buff, it gives you thirty percent, and sprinting now gives you a forty percent instead of a thirty percent, so we just sort of flip-flopped that. Because everyone has the sprint ability. And then it also means that the total maximum speed you can achieve is still the same, right? You can still get the 70% movement speed like before, so you won't be that slower.

And then it makes it--there's, there's some thing where you can get like reduced sprint cost and stuff like that--so we realize not everyone is going to be pouring tons and tons of points into that, right? But it makes it slightly better to have reduced sprint cost 'cause it's, it's more likely that you'll want to be sprinting in combat and it's actually a pretty useful thing to be doing. So that way Templar aren't quite as far down in terms of mobility battle and like how fast someone can catch them, or if they're running away how far they can get before someone catches them.

Jessica Folsom: OK.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

None of this factors the advantage of being a mobile platform while attacking. He's not recognizing the value of being able to attack (Ie move fast while not sprinting which locks attacks out, vs. high move spd and attacks).

Well he did say right in his quote, that they didn't even think about the fact that healing would strip templars of Rapids. So it isn't really that hard to imagine why they didn't factor it in. Hell he even tries to blow some smoke up your ass, with hey this is why honor the dead might be better... Since you know you are less likely to screw yourself. That is what every pvper enjoys, fights decided by random dumb luck.

david.haypreub18_ESO

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Well he did say right in his quote, that they didn't even think about the fact that healing would strip templars of Rapids. So it isn't really that hard to imagine why they didn't factor it in. Hell he even tries to blow some smoke up your ass, with hey this is why honor the dead might be better... Since you know you are less likely to screw yourself. That is what every pvper enjoys, fights decided by random dumb luck.

That was just insulting on Eric's part. Rather than buff or (god forbid) actually fix Templar skills, they nerf them to force you to use other, still worse skills.

That is definitely balancing, Templar style.

Islyn

God this thread. I cry.

SublimeSparo

Has anyone mentioned/ noticed that with the new molten weapons and chains changes for dks, Templars now lack two/three major buffs that other classes have;
Major Expedition, and
Major Sorcery/ Brutality

Zinaroth

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

Justice31st wrote: »

I have been watching the, "We Are ESO" podcast and others like it and have been noticing that Richard Lambert and the other game DEVS have been watching it as well. What was the one thing all these 1vX streamers had in common? Nerf Templars.

Except it was never nerf Templars but to make smart healing spam not effective against targets that are through walls/floors. Again, it is a line of sight issue which ZOS continues to ignore. If that same healer had to expose themself to heal a player then they could more easily be targeted instead of being who knows where within a 28m radius. You can blame the PvPers but really this is solely ZOS' fault for once again not understanding the real problem: smart healing.

Not true. In their first podcast they all agreed that templars were pretty much fine despite none of them playing one (only later did Sypher level one up and it is still stuck at VR1). They then proceedee to spend 2 shows talking about how screwed DKs are and how they need buffs. All of those guys helped in creating the image of a templar class that was doing just fine because of their ignorance or lack of knowledge. Only as of late have Fengrush turned around and kind of aknowledged he was wrong. Sypher still doesn't even bother spending his time doing the templar fight and Richard and Lucy just seem to be in a constant haze of "*** ZOS". Fengrush has definetely earned my respect for aknowledging the issues our class is in, but he also plays stamsorc so he can relate. Sypher knows we're *** and he will now aknowledge that somewhat when asked, but don't really care, and Lucy and Richard are just clueless on the subject and would rather spent all of their stream time on criticizing ZOS it seems.

nagarjunna

Call' em up by name:

@Sypher, @FENGRUSH come on down! The price is right! Your chance to contribute to this discussion!

Cinbri

nagarjunna wrote: »

Call' em up by name:

@Sypher, @FENGRUSH come on down! The price is right! Your chance to contribute to this discussion!

None of them tried to play magicka templar in open world pvp, i.e. opinion irrelevant. Why you need to call them? To transfrom feedback thread into trash?

AriBoh

Have you noticed we haven't even had a forum mod come in here saying the please be civil crap either?

SeptimusDova

Two more pages and we tie the record.This damage was due to false information, the lack of knowledge of the class and it's playstyles. Those who started the ball rolling should feel bad. No more money or donations from me ever. They got what they wanted . Sow the wind reap the whirlwind.

Healing as we know it is done.We have been replaced by some singing starlet. It will be interesting to see if a certain stamsorc re-rolls to accommodate the singing loon of heals.

Very close to two years invested in this one class. Now that is shot to sh*t. A total waste of my time. And an Insult to all of the great Templars.

The concessions given to us are laudable at best.

From our class it has been nothing but take, take and more take.

My brother and Sister Templars I want to say that I feel bad for all of us. Our road is harder now. And this will solve nothing. For in the end all that will happen is in PVP more Templar's will be needed and zergs will get them.
for PVE trials and such it will be an exercise in frustration.

Essiaga

timidobserver wrote: »

@tinythinker The problem is that there is not a single reason an enemy or player shouldn't enter a Templar's house. Making such an implausible statement makes Wrobel seem incompetent thus the anger and frustration you are seeing. If there were a few things in the update to back up the whole house story he gave us, I think there would be a lot less anger and frustration. Instead of making changes to backup such a ludicrous statement we got a 1% increase to our shield and +1 added to the radius of our ultimate. He seemed to be describing the vision for the dragonknight not the Templar.

That's EXACTLY what i thought. Ash Cloud, standard, reflect, spike shield, and chains to pull you in and talons to keep you there. It was like there house was a house of horrors. Our house is like an old lady's house. Our house is weaker then Vigor.

In fact most classes get there major resolve/ward with mobility and utility. Lightning Form (Expedition, Major Resolve/ward, and damage). So Stam Sorc pops Vigor and Lightning form and they're out healing us, faster the us, and have just as much mitigation as we do ... IN OUR HOUSE. Then they have WB and we're supposed to stand in Rune?

Terrible design.

Now lets compare healing to other defensive skills in the game ... BOL does nothing to make you better, stronger, etc. Ward is simply better then BOL as it is a pre-cast form of BOL that allows you to play freely. Spam-bushed with BOL = quick death. Cloak synergies with NB offense ... big time. DK they have it all. Reflect projectiles and melee damage (damage from mitigation, with buffs), DoTs that heal. tons of CCs including passive that do more then CC. If GDB and Igneous Shield (though nerfed by Battle Spirit). Yes they lack mobility but the have the skills to slow the enemy down.

Great Design.

The biggest issue is Battle Spirit nerfs. Balance them out of the game. Should have been priority # 1. Then balance the classes when they ALL have ALL skills available to them. The 2 classes that stuggled the most are the ones that have Battle Spirit nerfed skills and had Miss Chance removed from them with no mitigation added. Its knock down, groin stomp combo.

BalticBlues

AriBoh wrote: »

Have you noticed we haven't even had a forum mod come in here saying the please be civil crap either?

This probably is because most Templars are civil and social.
Most Templars play healer, a social class trying to help other players.
Templars are the total opposite to the asocial gankers who even
were given their own ganker IC DLC after Mr. Wrobel killed our shields...

We as the victims of Mr. Wrobel's decisions only have a chance to be heard by keeping civil.
We endured so many nerfs, and this next nerf patch can be
the straw that finally breaks the Templar's back not only in PvP, but in PvE as well,
because healing PUGs in many cases will become a nightmare and fail.

Therefore, again the question to Mr. Wrobel:

tinythinker wrote: »

ESO live for Friday, Feb 12th:
-changes to BoL to create parity

When do Templars get mobility, premium dps and useful shields as Sorcs to create parity?
Now that you removed our premium healing and you also nerfed us to stay "in the house"
while Sorcs now even heal better the imbalance gets worse, not better.

Mr. Wrobel, most Templars are fed up being designed as victims.
Victims to be consumed by highly mobile classes
with high dps and premium mitigation (shields/cloaks).
We needed help, you asked for suggestions, and you received plenty in this forum.

After months, instead of help, you give us reduced healing outside of circles and -25% BOL?
Sorry, but this new nerf patch is not even funny anymore, it feels almost obscene.
And this is why we Templars refuse to accept it. We have enough.

Soris

Funny part is that how @Wrobel explains why they removed Blinding Flashes. He said players failed to understand why their skills miss when they attack a templar. They press the button and nothing happens, feels so unresponsive blah blah..

You completely removed templars' one of the most important defensive ability and destroyed the other one and this is your reasoning behind it? Seriously?

How do you explain shuffle then?

Essiaga

I think we should just make a thread for each skill or skill line (1 per thread) to review it and come up with long term short term ideas rather then long post involving the entire class. Then link all the thread in 1 thread and bump it constantly every day, maybe with a poll of some kind.

Then we need to request a direct discussion (maybe via twitch, maybe monthly or ever 2 months) with members of the development team so that we can communicate our concerns and have them respond to us. We'd select a few people (maybe 5 or so) from these forums to be our representatives (those with cooler heads) so that talks don't turn into $#!+ tossing.

We can start a poll in the general forums "Would you like to have true Class discussions with the Devs?" to get support from and attention to the other classes as well. Maybe those of you that stream can plug the request in your streams. Those of you that watch streams can plug it in other peoples streams. Post links on Redit ... Really call attention to it.

What do you guys think? This forum approach isn't getting it done.

@Nifty2g @Zinaroth @tinythinker @Cinbri @timidobserver @dodgehopper_ESO @Leon119 @Joy_Division @david.haypreub18_ESO @Soris @SeptimusDova @Ashamray @bikerangelo @Zheg @technohic ... and many i missed. Sorry.

Hymzir

SublimeSparo wrote: »

Has anyone mentioned/ noticed that with the new molten weapons and chains changes for dks, Templars now lack two/three major buffs that other classes have;
Major Expedition, and
Major Sorcery/ Brutality

Yeah... Several times in fact. And most of us who have offered feedback on how to Templars could receive these critical key buffs. But since Wrobel wants to keep the classes different, we get to be the odd man out, to make that statement true. In other words... Since all the other classes have access to those buffs, Templars cannot. Otherwise the classes would not be different,. That's Wrobel logic for you.

Zheg

@Essiaga it's a nice idea and all, but ZOS gonna ZOS. Players are rarely (if ever) given a preview for the direction of balance changes before they actually happen, and when they do happen, it's almost always far too late to do anything about it as the patch doesn't have enough time between PTS and Live to be reworked. ZOS does not handle feedback well, plain and simple. Though I find Wrobel's work to be a monumental disappointment, the other dimension of the issue is a clear lack of resources. While one guy is clearly the problem, it's the entire company mantra and their behavior for over 2 years that's both enabled and contributed to where we are now.

Wrobel made clear his vision for the class, and it's pretty evident templars either don't want it or acknowledge the class lacks the tools to even pretend like it's a viable vision; while the forum approach has yet to be fruitful for templars, frankly it's one of the only ways we can share our disgust and put heat on them. Take vet levels as an example - the majority of the playerbase despised the system starting from beta and it took literally years of incessant complaining and players leaving in droves before they caved and now they'll finally be removed in 4-5 months. Eventually ZOS will indeed cave on templars, the problem is that it will (as is usual for them) be too late, the damage will be done, and players will have left the game. I've spent more time following other upcoming games over the past month or so than at any other time; many players are at a point where they only play ESO simply because of a lack of better options. With so many new mmorpg's on the near horizon, frankly ZOS will be getting what they deserve soon enough, though it will be tragic given the potential ESO had.

As ludicrous as it sounds, I run a super high health build on my templar and am probably about as close to the 'house' as one can get; I've been successful in that build in pvp but didn't even want to remotely talk about the build or share it with people publicly for fear that Wrobel in his perpetual ignorance would gut the capability of such a build. THAT is the level of trust in the lead combat designer, and I'm sure I'm not the only one that feels that way.

SeptimusDova

Not a single Comment from E.W on the Templar topic makes any sense in regards to"Our House"

Stand in a circle and no mitigation. How about giving us back blinding flashes. Then at least one out of two WB wont knock us out of our House. DK has Reflect

Blazing Shield how about restoring it to its former glory. As a reminder to all who approach" Warning Nuclear Meltdown Imminent". Sorcs have Hardened Ward

reverse the change made to jabs and the forced cone effect. Put it back to on camera.

There was no reason to make these changes in the first place. They were reactionary to appease the streamers and the elitists.

Parity? Really ? Ok Parity is everyone with white gear weapons and LA/HA attack. that's parity.So would be giving everyone access to all racial's all mundus stones and all skill lines.

Denying skill or nerfing to accommodate the above said E-groups above is appeasement, not balance. I am glad Cal Ripken was never like this during his baseball career.

Cinbri

Essiaga wrote: »

I think we should just make a thread for each skill or skill line (1 per thread) to review it and come up with long term short term ideas rather then long post involving the entire class. Then link all the thread in 1 thread and bump it constantly every day, maybe with a poll of some kind.

Then we need to request a direct discussion (maybe via twitch, maybe monthly or ever 2 months) with members of the development team so that we can communicate our concerns and have them respond to us. We'd select a few people (maybe 5 or so) from these forums to be our representatives (those with cooler heads) so that talks don't turn into $#!+ tossing.

We can start a poll in the general forums "Would you like to have true Class discussions with the Devs?" to get support from and attention to the other classes as well. Maybe those of you that stream can plug the request in your streams. Those of you that watch streams can plug it in other peoples streams. Post links on Redit ... Really call attention to it.

What do you guys think? This forum approach isn't getting it done.

@Nifty2g @Zinaroth @tinythinker @Cinbri @timidobserver @dodgehopper_ESO @Leon119 @Joy_Division @david.haypreub18_ESO @Soris @SeptimusDova @Ashamray @bikerangelo @Zheg @technohic ... and many i missed. Sorry.

Tbh i don't see reason in doing it coz it probably won't change much. I will post my suggestions with regard of Wrobel's words and some theorycrafting again, after read next incremental patch.
Also Wrobel's vision regarding templar's "house" was obviously as his vision of templar and i tried to play it but fount that in compare with DK, it is 3 times harder without proper tools.

kaalmoth

Essiaga wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

@tinythinker The problem is that there is not a single reason an enemy or player shouldn't enter a Templar's house. Making such an implausible statement makes Wrobel seem incompetent thus the anger and frustration you are seeing. If there were a few things in the update to back up the whole house story he gave us, I think there would be a lot less anger and frustration. Instead of making changes to backup such a ludicrous statement we got a 1% increase to our shield and +1 added to the radius of our ultimate. He seemed to be describing the vision for the dragonknight not the Templar.

That's EXACTLY what i thought. Ash Cloud, standard, reflect, spike shield, and chains to pull you in and talons to keep you there. It was like there house was a house of horrors. Our house is like an old lady's house. Our house is weaker then Vigor.

In fact most classes get there major resolve/ward with mobility and utility. Lightning Form (Expedition, Major Resolve/ward, and damage). So Stam Sorc pops Vigor and Lightning form and they're out healing us, faster the us, and have just as much mitigation as we do ... IN OUR HOUSE. Then they have WB and we're supposed to stand in Rune?

Terrible design.

Now lets compare healing to other defensive skills in the game ... BOL does nothing to make you better, stronger, etc. Ward is simply better then BOL as it is a pre-cast form of BOL that allows you to play freely. Spam-bushed with BOL = quick death. Cloak synergies with NB offense ... big time. DK they have it all. Reflect projectiles and melee damage (damage from mitigation, with buffs), DoTs that heal. tons of CCs including passive that do more then CC. If GDB and Igneous Shield (though nerfed by Battle Spirit). Yes they lack mobility but the have the skills to slow the enemy down.

Great Design.

The biggest issue is Battle Spirit nerfs. Balance them out of the game. Should have been priority # 1. Then balance the classes when they ALL have ALL skills available to them. The 2 classes that stuggled the most are the ones that have Battle Spirit nerfed skills and had Miss Chance removed from them with no mitigation added. Its knock down, groin stomp combo.

Exactly. It's not like I don't like Wrobel's fantasy of templar's house, but at some point, if it's REALLY the vision he has for us then he's got to start giving us the tools to be a good housekeeper.

Yesterday, I dueled a mag DK. I don't think he had very high spell damage cause he wasnt hitting that hard, but even then, if I didn't have eclipse reflecting his whips and my reflected dark flares I don't think I could have killed him. The guy obviously was spamming talons (so good luck landing some sweeps), and wings (so good luck with flares). Actually how are we supposed to kill a mag DK in TG? Spear Shards spam?

Reorx_Holybeard

Soris wrote: »

Funny part is that how @Wrobel explains why they removed Blinding Flashes. He said players failed to understand why their skills miss when they attack a templar. They press the button and nothing happens, feels so unresponsive blah blah..

You completely removed templars' one of the most important defensive ability and destroyed the other one and this is your reasoning behind it? Seriously?

How do you explain shuffle then?

Yah, the problem with this type of reasoning is that it can be arbitrarily applied to just about anything:

• Champion Points Defensives: Why do my skills hit less hard on some people for no obvious reason?
• Set of the Phoenix: Why does this player not actually die when I kill them?
• Shuffle: Why am I doing randomly less damage against this player?
• Reflect: Why are my spells hitting me?
• Vampire Undeath: Why does this player get hit for less damage when at low health?
• etc...

As long as a skill like Blinding Flashes has some sort of visual component to it (like Eclipse does) this it is really up to each player to recognize the ability use and do the appropriate counters...just like every other skill in the game.

Alorier

Hit him over the head with a pillow that's how it feels to me these days

bikerangelo

kaalmoth wrote: »

Essiaga wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

@tinythinker The problem is that there is not a single reason an enemy or player shouldn't enter a Templar's house. Making such an implausible statement makes Wrobel seem incompetent thus the anger and frustration you are seeing. If there were a few things in the update to back up the whole house story he gave us, I think there would be a lot less anger and frustration. Instead of making changes to backup such a ludicrous statement we got a 1% increase to our shield and +1 added to the radius of our ultimate. He seemed to be describing the vision for the dragonknight not the Templar.

That's EXACTLY what i thought. Ash Cloud, standard, reflect, spike shield, and chains to pull you in and talons to keep you there. It was like there house was a house of horrors. Our house is like an old lady's house. Our house is weaker then Vigor.

In fact most classes get there major resolve/ward with mobility and utility. Lightning Form (Expedition, Major Resolve/ward, and damage). So Stam Sorc pops Vigor and Lightning form and they're out healing us, faster the us, and have just as much mitigation as we do ... IN OUR HOUSE. Then they have WB and we're supposed to stand in Rune?

Terrible design.

Now lets compare healing to other defensive skills in the game ... BOL does nothing to make you better, stronger, etc. Ward is simply better then BOL as it is a pre-cast form of BOL that allows you to play freely. Spam-bushed with BOL = quick death. Cloak synergies with NB offense ... big time. DK they have it all. Reflect projectiles and melee damage (damage from mitigation, with buffs), DoTs that heal. tons of CCs including passive that do more then CC. If GDB and Igneous Shield (though nerfed by Battle Spirit). Yes they lack mobility but the have the skills to slow the enemy down.

Great Design.

The biggest issue is Battle Spirit nerfs. Balance them out of the game. Should have been priority # 1. Then balance the classes when they ALL have ALL skills available to them. The 2 classes that stuggled the most are the ones that have Battle Spirit nerfed skills and had Miss Chance removed from them with no mitigation added. Its knock down, groin stomp combo.

Exactly. It's not like I don't like Wrobel's fantasy of templar's house, but at some point, if it's REALLY the vision he has for us then he's got to start giving us the tools to be a good housekeeper.

Yesterday, I dueled a mag DK. I don't think he had very high spell damage cause he wasnt hitting that hard, but even then, if I didn't have eclipse reflecting his whips and my reflected dark flares I don't think I could have killed him. The guy obviously was spamming talons (so good luck landing some sweeps), and wings (so good luck with flares). Actually how are we supposed to kill a mag DK in TG? Spear Shards spam?

If they're a halfway decent DK, and you don't have magic det, you literally just have to leave. He'll hit you with dots but you can just purge everything. Here's some gameplay footage as an example.

Soris

Reorx_Holybeard wrote: »

As long as a skill like Blinding Flashes has some sort of visual component to it (like Eclipse does) this it is really up to each player to recognize the ability use and do the appropriate counters...just like every other skill in the game.

This was its animation and it was flashing every 2 secs. I think it cant be more obvious.

tinythinker

Essiaga wrote: »

I think we should just make a thread for each skill or skill line (1 per thread) to review it and come up with long term short term ideas rather then long post involving the entire class. Then link all the thread in 1 thread and bump it constantly every day, maybe with a poll of some kind.

Sounds fun, like a "How would you revise Aedric Spear?" or "How would you revise Restoring Light?"

However, it would just be for fun. I've suggested TONS of fun changes to the game, including class changes, as have many many others. And that's all it was/is, just for fun. If I only posted when I had high hopes the devs would take an interest in my ideas, I wouldn't bother. ZOS doesn't tend to take big cues from the forums (and if they did my posts aren't really the best examples of what they should consider ). Those of us who regularly write up ideas and express creative recommendations to improve/expand ESO are doing it for other players to review.

Zheg wrote: »

As ludicrous as it sounds, I run a super high health build on my templar and am probably about as close to the 'house' as one can get; I've been successful in that build in pvp but didn't even want to remotely talk about the build or share it with people publicly for fear that Wrobel in his perpetual ignorance would gut the capability of such a build. THAT is the level of trust in the lead combat designer, and I'm sure I'm not the only one that feels that way.

Well, I used to run somewhat tanky builds on all my Argonians (including my Templar) because the passives melded best with higher health and heavy armor, then I went to more convention builds to be, well, halfway effective. If you don't want to share publicly, I understand, but I won't tell anyone if you send some clues/pointers along less visible lines of communication

Cryhavoc

This thread is a zerg.

Questions for @Wrobel -

Is there a plan for balancing the classes?

I have to assume that the developers are not short sighted enough to balance 1 v 1.... Are you balancing around a group of 6? Why not 24? Why do we have a group of 24 in Cyrodiil, and trials have only 12? Etc Etc

Is there a vision for each class? We know that the "this is my house" thing is for Templars, what about the other classes? Did you just create a bunch of skills?

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It looks like my Templar is relegated to a Duel/DPS build in PVP, and I will need to go Vampire to have any survivability/mobility...