Official Feedback Thread for Templars

Idinuse

bikerangelo wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

eliisra wrote: »

One of the most brutal templar nerfs this patch(not sure everyone gets that yet), is the changes to Rapid Maneuver.

Healing an ally will now remove the speed buff and snare immunity.

But Templars have no self-heals, templars have no viable self-shield since 1.7. All our heals are smart heals so they land on allies regardless. Even Honor of the Dead will go somewhere else if nearby guy is on lower health. So by trying to heal ourself to prevent dying while being hunted by zerg, we loose snare immunity, we loose speed. Run over by enemy raid and *** explode.

We're suppose to not heal ourself and just die, when we have Rapid on? Or maybe loose Rapid and die from that? What to pick.

How come all general changes ends up nerfing templars? The change to RM doesn't effects sorcs at all, for example.

This complete lack of judgement from developer side when it comes to nerfplars, it's just to shocking and why I wont be playing TG at all.

Maybe it is envisioned that the dedicated Healer class (with an entire Class Skill Tree dedicated to healing), in ESO:TU is supposed to use a Healing Potion in this particular situation.

The Wrobel logic is spreading. Please tell me how a 6k hp pot is going to help when you're trying to evade a zerg who is gap closing you persistantly.

Really, are you serious? Lol.

Jura23

I appreciate that you wrote your longest post ever about Templars @FENGRUSH I reall do, Im serious.

I know I wouldnt bother, let alone the fact its not even your main class.

nagarjunna

I'm pleased Fengrush came on! Takes courage to brave our house! His video comments are now in context and have been put into a wider viewpoint.

Jura23

nagarjunna wrote: »

I'm pleased Fengrush came on! Takes courage to brave our house! His video comments are now in context and have been put into a wider viewpoint.

lmao yeah, Fengrush dared to come to our house. Should not stay without consequnces.

bikerangelo

Idinuse wrote: »

bikerangelo wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

eliisra wrote: »

One of the most brutal templar nerfs this patch(not sure everyone gets that yet), is the changes to Rapid Maneuver.

Healing an ally will now remove the speed buff and snare immunity.

But Templars have no self-heals, templars have no viable self-shield since 1.7. All our heals are smart heals so they land on allies regardless. Even Honor of the Dead will go somewhere else if nearby guy is on lower health. So by trying to heal ourself to prevent dying while being hunted by zerg, we loose snare immunity, we loose speed. Run over by enemy raid and *** explode.

We're suppose to not heal ourself and just die, when we have Rapid on? Or maybe loose Rapid and die from that? What to pick.

How come all general changes ends up nerfing templars? The change to RM doesn't effects sorcs at all, for example.

This complete lack of judgement from developer side when it comes to nerfplars, it's just to shocking and why I wont be playing TG at all.

Maybe it is envisioned that the dedicated Healer class (with an entire Class Skill Tree dedicated to healing), in ESO:TU is supposed to use a Healing Potion in this particular situation.

The Wrobel logic is spreading. Please tell me how a 6k hp pot is going to help when you're trying to evade a zerg who is gap closing you persistantly.

Really, are you serious? Lol.

My bad, Cicero, I thought you were being serious and not alluding to the developer's intentions.

FENGRUSH

nagarjunna wrote: »

Takes courage to brave our house!

Hahaha nice one!

Sallington

If our Templar ground-AOEs are supposed to make us a force to be reckoned with, in any way, they need to put some nasty stacking DoT on people who stay within the area, and reduce projectile damage by 50% or something. There needs to be some advantage to standing relative still.

david.haypreub18_ESO

Props to Fengrush on coming in to face the music; that did take courage.

I will say that I think the game has only gotten worse under Wrobel's leadership. He seems to want PvP to be a simple DPS check. Blocking getting in the way of DPS finishing guys? Nerf blocking then. Healing getting in the way of DPS finishing guys? Nerf BoL. Shields getting in the way of DPS finishing guys? Maybe we'll need to nerf all shields.

This is terrible game design.

david.haypreub18_ESO

Not sure if anyone has seen this posted by Husan, but it is perfect:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/245623/parody-zenileaks-a-zenimax-employees-thoughts-on-the-new-templar-changes-caught-on-tape/p1

Idinuse

bikerangelo wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

bikerangelo wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

eliisra wrote: »

One of the most brutal templar nerfs this patch(not sure everyone gets that yet), is the changes to Rapid Maneuver.

Healing an ally will now remove the speed buff and snare immunity.

But Templars have no self-heals, templars have no viable self-shield since 1.7. All our heals are smart heals so they land on allies regardless. Even Honor of the Dead will go somewhere else if nearby guy is on lower health. So by trying to heal ourself to prevent dying while being hunted by zerg, we loose snare immunity, we loose speed. Run over by enemy raid and *** explode.

We're suppose to not heal ourself and just die, when we have Rapid on? Or maybe loose Rapid and die from that? What to pick.

How come all general changes ends up nerfing templars? The change to RM doesn't effects sorcs at all, for example.

This complete lack of judgement from developer side when it comes to nerfplars, it's just to shocking and why I wont be playing TG at all.

Maybe it is envisioned that the dedicated Healer class (with an entire Class Skill Tree dedicated to healing), in ESO:TU is supposed to use a Healing Potion in this particular situation.

The Wrobel logic is spreading. Please tell me how a 6k hp pot is going to help when you're trying to evade a zerg who is gap closing you persistantly.

Really, are you serious? Lol.

My bad, Cicero, I thought you were being serious and not alluding to the developer's intentions.

Ok dear.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

Props to Fengrush on coming in to face the music; that did take courage.

I will say that I think the game has only gotten worse under Wrobel's leadership. He seems to want PvP to be a simple DPS check. Blocking getting in the way of DPS finishing guys? Nerf blocking then. Healing getting in the way of DPS finishing guys? Nerf BoL. Shields getting in the way of DPS finishing guys? Maybe we'll need to nerf all shields.

This is terrible game design.

I agree. I think it might be time for new thinking and new leadership in that position. From his ideas on IC to his ideas on class balance he seems to be out of touch with the player base. I didnt think the game was his. I thought the game was ours.

Joy_Division

Idinuse wrote: »

eliisra wrote: »

One of the most brutal templar nerfs this patch(not sure everyone gets that yet), is the changes to Rapid Maneuver.

Healing an ally will now remove the speed buff and snare immunity.

But Templars have no self-heals, templars have no viable self-shield since 1.7. All our heals are smart heals so they land on allies regardless. Even Honor of the Dead will go somewhere else if nearby guy is on lower health. So by trying to heal ourself to prevent dying while being hunted by zerg, we loose snare immunity, we loose speed. Run over by enemy raid and *** explode.

We're suppose to not heal ourself and just die, when we have Rapid on? Or maybe loose Rapid and die from that? What to pick.

How come all general changes ends up nerfing templars? The change to RM doesn't effects sorcs at all, for example.

This complete lack of judgement from developer side when it comes to nerfplars, it's just to shocking and why I wont be playing TG at all.

Maybe it is envisioned that the dedicated Healer class (with an entire Class Skill Tree dedicated to healing), in ESO:TU is supposed to use a Healing Potion in this particular situation.

If you watched ESO Live, it is clear Eric Wrobel did not anticipate that scenario so there was no envisioning.

Edit: sarcasm? WTB internet with tone of voice.

Zheg

The most recent posts have washed me of all guilt and shame for my normal wall of text nature.

Side note, I've read pretty much the entire thread and haven't seen this be a focus yet - fasallas guile. One of the questions I posed to wrobel that was answered (but not really...) was what happens when dmg numbers go up, hp and mitigation remain static? Answer = shift to dmg shields and away from reliance on heals, it's a huge hit to temps without any direct changes to our skills. Furthermore, no cooldown on fasallas guile means at least SOMEONE is running it in the enemy hordes you're fighting. Not only is the TG meta promoting shields we don't have, our heals will on average be 50% weaker in most of the fights that matter.

Even though I love Templar, I will be running that set on mine even though I know what it means for healing and the class as a whole. I hope people are at least AWARE of how interwoven into the meta that set will become in pvp if it remains as is. My build is niche and will survive it just fine, but a magicka Templar relying on heals or a stapler relying on vigor? GG.

Idinuse

Joy_Division wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

eliisra wrote: »

One of the most brutal templar nerfs this patch(not sure everyone gets that yet), is the changes to Rapid Maneuver.

Healing an ally will now remove the speed buff and snare immunity.

But Templars have no self-heals, templars have no viable self-shield since 1.7. All our heals are smart heals so they land on allies regardless. Even Honor of the Dead will go somewhere else if nearby guy is on lower health. So by trying to heal ourself to prevent dying while being hunted by zerg, we loose snare immunity, we loose speed. Run over by enemy raid and *** explode.

We're suppose to not heal ourself and just die, when we have Rapid on? Or maybe loose Rapid and die from that? What to pick.

How come all general changes ends up nerfing templars? The change to RM doesn't effects sorcs at all, for example.

This complete lack of judgement from developer side when it comes to nerfplars, it's just to shocking and why I wont be playing TG at all.

Maybe it is envisioned that the dedicated Healer class (with an entire Class Skill Tree dedicated to healing), in ESO:TU is supposed to use a Healing Potion in this particular situation.

If you watched ESO Live, it is clear Eric Wrobel did not anticipate that scenario so there was no envisioning.

Edit: sarcasm? WTB internet with tone of voice.

Ok. Irony rather than sarcasm, but whatever.

Joy_Division

Zheg wrote: »

The most recent posts have washed me of all guilt and shame for my normal wall of text nature.

Side note, I've read pretty much the entire thread and haven't seen this be a focus yet - fasallas guile. One of the questions I posed to wrobel that was answered (but not really...) was what happens when dmg numbers go up, hp and mitigation remain static? Answer = shift to dmg shields and away from reliance on heals, it's a huge hit to temps without any direct changes to our skills. Furthermore, no cooldown on fasallas guile means at least SOMEONE is running it in the enemy hordes you're fighting. Not only is the TG meta promoting shields we don't have, our heals will on average be 50% weaker in most of the fights that matter.

Even though I love Templar, I will be running that set on mine even though I know what it means for healing and the class as a whole. I hope people are at least AWARE of how interwoven into the meta that set will become in pvp if it remains as is. My build is niche and will survive it just fine, but a magicka Templar relying on heals or a stapler relying on vigor? GG.

Yep, every horde is going to have a person wearing that set to get a heal debuff on the steel tornado and prox det spammers (as well as the poor templar who throws a spear shard). Of course, more of the horde will be wearing viscous death so it would be nice to have a decent shield when the person next to you goes *Boom*.

SeptimusDova

@Joy_Division
" willingness to make substantive changes"
This part is correct. they have the ability
they ask for feedback and even after a solid year of it they bury the threads and utilize none of the great ideas that you, tiny thinker,nifty or blabafat have put forth. Ideas and concepts that if had been put to use would of prevented the very thing we are now experiencing.

@Jura23
core problem = smart healing. *** mechanic if you ask me.
correct many have addressed this including i think @Fengrush but it falls on deaf ears. End result nerf BOL. When BOL was not the problem.Nerf the 30% base whne that was not the problem.

Just like 1.6 really short TTK was due in large part to the Nirn bug, the sharpened bug and the camo bug just to name some memorable bugs. End result of these bugs was Battle Spirit.

Since 1.5 it has been a cascading flow of errors squared by technical debt.

@Essiaga

opening specific threads for specfic abilities is a good idea. It would be worth a try. But do keep in mind that ZOS may not be receptive to any quick changes.

I think that the changes on the PTS are already set in stone. Just like the previous changes in the last three major updates. Feedback=Opinion. Opinion=/= Ok we wont make these changes.

@Fengrush

I haven't seen your last streams or Sypher's either for that matter. I remember the last Templar thread you engaged in that I was part of and I was not happy about the things you were saying. They put me off from your guys streams all together. The folks at zen who watched your stream were receptive to your guys words and they acted on them. We both know that ZOS is like a train. Designed and destined to go forward. Full speed ahead Casey Jones and damn the brakes.We will never know for sure if they heeded the words of the We Are ESO productions then, now or in the future. Joy Division forgives you and I respect the hell out of Joy. So that is good enough for me.

Templar has been my main since the day we went early access. I have been through all of the changes and this is where I now draw the line.

Cryhavoc

Much respect to @FENGRUSH

ZOS should hire several folks from this thread to handle class balance for them, even if for just one patch.

In DAOC, they had class leads to help with balance. Why not in ESO? Calling on @ZOS_MattFiror

jcasini222ub17_ESO

This is from live and mildly comical. I've been trying to stay in channeled focus in pve land, in general its a real chore. But that's not the point. The area rune focus and its morphs cover is terribad. Case in point I drop channeled to stay in my house, well a spider deadra decided to come into the rune all is still good however I turn to down a non silver npc creating more space for the spider daedra to occupy (it does).

Now I'm practically one foot out of rune and one foot it, I try to knockback the spider daedra but due to its size it doesn't vacate the rune.

I'm forced to recast and reset my 'house' since npc due to design, the space it occupies legs and all, couldnt be moved out of my first house. It was comical. It certainly didnt feel as strong as my dk where I can cast razor armor (forget it) and wb spam in med armor with better tankiness than my heavy armor temp.

Also like to point out with the size of rune many frontal attacks from pve mobs doesn't allow you to sidestep. For example a deadroth fire breath or wamasu frontal attack the rune isn't large enough to sidestep.

FENGRUSH

SeptimusDova wrote: »

@Joy_Division
" willingness to make substantive changes"
This part is correct. they have the ability
they ask for feedback and even after a solid year of it they bury the threads and utilize none of the great ideas that you, tiny thinker,nifty or blabafat have put forth. Ideas and concepts that if had been put to use would of prevented the very thing we are now experiencing.

@Jura23
core problem = smart healing. *** mechanic if you ask me.
correct many have addressed this including i think @Fengrush but it falls on deaf ears. End result nerf BOL. When BOL was not the problem.Nerf the 30% base whne that was not the problem.

Just like 1.6 really short TTK was due in large part to the Nirn bug, the sharpened bug and the camo bug just to name some memorable bugs. End result of these bugs was Battle Spirit.

Since 1.5 it has been a cascading flow of errors squared by technical debt.

@Essiaga

opening specific threads for specfic abilities is a good idea. It would be worth a try. But do keep in mind that ZOS may not be receptive to any quick changes.

I think that the changes on the PTS are already set in stone. Just like the previous changes in the last three major updates. Feedback=Opinion. Opinion=/= Ok we wont make these changes.

@Fengrush

I haven't seen your last streams or Sypher's either for that matter. I remember the last Templar thread you engaged in that I was part of and I was not happy about the things you were saying. They put me off from your guys streams all together. The folks at zen who watched your stream were receptive to your guys words and they acted on them. We both know that ZOS is like a train. Designed and destined to go forward. Full speed ahead Casey Jones and damn the brakes.We will never know for sure if they heeded the words of the We Are ESO productions then, now or in the future. Joy Division forgives you and I respect the hell out of Joy. So that is good enough for me.

Templar has been my main since the day we went early access. I have been through all of the changes and this is where I now draw the line.

I dunno - I cant speak for them, but we actually do make suggestions a lot on We are ESO about things and those rarely pan out. Again - they definitely hear the issues. They hear us complaining about AOE caps, they dont want to remove them (mostly due to fear of the impact). But they dont realize the changes to det and this set will have far stronger impact, actually not allowing people to group due to the nature of these skills. If you had no AOE caps and toned down skills with respect to it, people could still fight reasonably. The new combos will be anything but reasonable - its just bad solutions.

The time on We Are ESO we talked about healing - we started the conversation actually talking about people ressing over and over with no penalty - something people experience a lot now and come next patch we will see even more of. No real changes there, and when changes do come - I doubt they will be the sickness changes we asked for. There is no engagement on "We are working on X, Y and Z issues and want your feed back" and then also reaching out to some folks in this community for a private QnA saying here is what were planning, here is why, and heres what we want.. what do you guys think?

Is there any harm in this? Its either indifference or pride that keeps them from doing this. Which is worse?

Cinbri

Regarding fengrush since people started to talking:
1. I watched his video record about eso live and pretty agree about everything he said regarding its *** current state. I also agree on BoL nerf.
2. Saying that he played templar in beta, i.e. almost 2 years ago, and rolled sorc - just a confirmation that he knows about templars as much as I about stam sorcs = nothing. Nothing left from beta templar already...
3. As i said this thread for those who playing templar.
4. I may thinking now that combat team didn't played templar since beta, thats the only reason why they may think that templar is good now.

SeptimusDova

@jcasini222ub17_ESO

Yes the house is small. It is actually a renovated doghouse.

FENGRUSH

Cinbri wrote: »

Regarding fengrush since people started to talking:
1. I watched his video record about eso live and pretty agree about everything he said regarding its *** current state. I also agree on BoL nerf.
2. Saying that he played templar in beta, i.e. almost 2 years ago, and rolled sorc - just a confirmation that he knows about templars as much as I about sorcs = nothing. Nothing left from beta templar already...
3. As i said this thread for those who played templar.
4. I may thinking now that combat team didn't played templar since beta, thats the only reason why they may think that templar is good now.

Lol - all Im saying is I played it a lot, and keep up to date on its skills pretty well through the patches. When I see DK and NB, I do know their skills, but understanding how they pan out is different when I dont touch them.

I did go out and play on the templar Ive built - just not on stream. Ill throw out a build video for it sometime and you can come make fun of me.


EDIT: With that said - Im not saying I understand or feel the pains of your class first hand and I dont pretend to. But I just dont think its accurate to say I dont know or care about anything templar related, because aside from my own class its easily the one I know the most about and would be very comfortable just switching onto one and playing. I wouldnt be on a DK or NB.

Cinbri

Incremental patch delayed for tomorrow. 1 more day to wait till buffs and transfer

SeptimusDova

@Fengrush

"Is there any harm in this? Its either indifference or pride that keeps them from doing this. Which is worse?"



In this venue where design decisions affect customers either one of these are liabilites"For the long term health of the game"
simple answer to the rez issue is a cool down that stacks

first rez normal time

second rez adds a ten second cooldown to the casters ability and to the rezzed party( this prevents Rez exploiting) each successive rez doubles the cooldown

second rez 10 second CD
third rez 20 Second CD
fourth rez 40 Second CD
fifth rez 80 Second CD
6th rez 160 Second CD

Or something to that effect

And death would have time based consequences.

FENGRUSH

SeptimusDova wrote: »

@Fengrush

"Is there any harm in this? Its either indifference or pride that keeps them from doing this. Which is worse?"



In this venue where design decisions affect customers either one of these are liabilites"For the long term health of the game"
simple answer to the rez issue is a cool down that stacks

first rez normal time

second rez adds a ten second cooldown to the casters ability and to the rezzed party( this prevents Rez exploiting) each successive rez doubles the cooldown

second rez 10 second CD
third rez 20 Second CD
fourth rez 40 Second CD
fifth rez 80 Second CD
6th rez 160 Second CD

Or something to that effect

And death would have time based consequences.

I suggested something similar instead of longer ressing or impacted stats when you get up too. All Im saying is to offer an example of something they could take next patch consider it a big issue and totally fubar it and people could take to the forums saying I screwed their teamplay for my 1vX heroics. I dont want to derail though so just an example.

blackcom90

Ooookay... we are skyrocketting towards the 2000 comments... WHERE THE HELL THE ZOS IS? ISN'T THIS THE OFFICIAL THREAD!?!?

Soris

Yep this thread is now officially beat the record of this one http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/161959/templar-skills-bugged-made-useless-ignored/p1

SeptimusDova

TEMPLARS REJOICE we have set a new record !!!

we beat the previous record of 37 pages.

Keep it up we have yet to beat the most buried and suppressed thread record.

ZOS plz do not institute these changes. Listen to all of the suggestions from all the peeps on this thread and take the time to fix this right. Fix it once and never have to do it again. If you do this I will open my wallet back up... With the wife's permission of course.

Soris

Soris wrote: »

Yep this thread is now officially beat the record of this one http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/161959/templar-skills-bugged-made-useless-ignored/p1

And we still have same problems topkek

SeptimusDova

yes we do
tis a shame