Official Feedback Thread for Templars

blackcom90

Reading again what @tinythinker i' m more convinced that @Wrobel doesn't understand the gameplay of a templar in pve.... In pve if stay in the house you die. There are no alternatives.
In pve you use not only the resto staff skills, but destro staff too...
The synergy between skills was pretty good and now we have lost it.

He said that he made the change before the testing, and now we are providing a great deal of negative feedback regarding the pve healing issue AFTER the testin.... he will listen to us?
I don't think so.
He never did use of a templar in pve endgame so he has no reason to listen to us.
He did an halfassed and incomplete job and we will have to suffer for it.

nagarjunna

If we have to have a house, I do NOT want this one:



I would love to have this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gx_YryUCkAA

david.haypreub18_ESO

So according to Eric, the way to give the Templar more powerful abilities is to nerf the good ones Templars currently have so that they will try to use their crappier ones.

For all other classes, the way to give them more powerful abilities is to actually make their abilities more powerful.

It is painfully obvious from reading this transcript that he just has no clue at this point. His vague promises of possibly looking into a skill to help Templars tank is hilariously naïve, because Templars already had skills to tank: Blazing Shield and Blinding Flashes, and HE removed them. If Templars can't tank, he has no one to blame but himself, because he actively removed the skills they needed to tank.

TRoclodyte

Lettigall wrote: »

Piercing Javelin- Hurl your spear at an enemy with godlike strength,...

That made me laugh so hard I got weird looks.
So true though.

nagarjunna

TRoclodyte wrote: »

That made me laugh so hard I got weird looks.
So true though.

Buster Keaton is awesome - this is taken from his movie "the College"

Mojmir

nagarjunna wrote: »

TRoclodyte wrote: »

That made me laugh so hard I got weird looks.
So true though.

Buster Keaton is awesome - this is taken from his movie "the College"

Yea that casting time is way to short,I'm calling for a "buff"

GhostwalkerLD

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

So according to Eric, the way to give the Templar more powerful abilities is to nerf the good ones Templars currently have so that they will try to use their crappier ones.

For all other classes, the way to give them more powerful abilities is to actually make their abilities more powerful.

It is painfully obvious from reading this transcript that he just has no clue at this point. His vague promises of possibly looking into a skill to help Templars tank is hilariously naïve, because Templars already had skills to tank: Blazing Shield and Blinding Flashes, and HE removed them. If Templars can't tank, he has no one to blame but himself, because he actively removed the skills they needed to tank.

Yep.. complete and total BS. "We want you to have more abilities to use..." So you gut our good ability to force us to use other abilities instead,and make infinitesmal changes to our mediocre and useless abilities just so you can claim "Hey, we did a thing, stop complaining."

Can we please fire this idiot already? It's as if he's pathologically incapable of accepting any responsibility for the uselessness of a class that HE IS PRIMARILY RESPONSIBLE FOR CAUSING. And then completely ignoring the 34 pages (plus at least a dozen other similar-length threads) providing "feedback" that he supposedly requested.

tinythinker

TL;DR -- Make Restoring Light A Mobile Rune Based Skill Line

In case I get in another theory crafting mood, since so many experienced Templars keep popping into this thread, what do you think of this...

Someone started a poll thread and offered these options:

Why did YOU create a Templar?

• I wanted to be a sun-wielding Spartan of fire and light, blazing around the battlefield smiting foes with a searing spear.
• I wanted to be a sun-calling holy monk, sniping and burning foes to a crisp from a distance.
• I wanted to be a heavy armor battle healer, mending wounds and raising allies from the dead while imbuing them with my righteous power.
• I wanted to be a rune-hugging turtle healer, a light-slinging meat shield who "stands in my house" while the useful classes do actual work on the battlefield.

Clearly that last one was a jab at what Wrobel talked about in the most recent ESO Live. But I reworked it a little to make this;

• A rune-guarded healer, a light-weaver who buffs allies and weakens foes on the battlefield.

Now I think many of us, including me, have suggested changes that would help bring the first three from the original list to life. But that last one, the one I took from a snark to a decent-sounding option...

Writing that brought the idea of a rune-based skill line and associated images to mind. Images of spells that formed glowing runes on the caster as well as, in some cases, the ground. So let that kind of image sink in a moment. A caster with their armor marked and their face covered in wicked looking runes. (Hey, in PvP enemies are gonna spot a Templar quick anyway so why not look cool and with style? And if our ideas for buffing Templar were ever halfway implemented those markings could server as a warning.)

Now, as for the functional aspect, the mechanics, three types sprung to mind:

Body runes only that flash when you cast.

Instant cast, immediate effect, one off spells like Rushed Ceremony.

Body runes only that remain for the duration of the spell.

They are proximity based AoE "in waiting" spells that visibly "tag" players in need who come within range. That is, allies can run within range and get a blessing (buff and/or heal) or you can run to them. Closest thing currently in the game is the new Cauterize morph of Inferno for DK. I'm thinking it could be part of a revision of or a replacement for Healing Ritual (there would be no self-snare, it would be instant cast). This would also be the rune-type for Restoring Aura/Radiant Aura, whereas Repentance would be the first type (body runes that flash only when you cast).

Body *and* ground runes that remain for the duration of the spell.

They are active AoE spells, such as Cleansing Ritual and Rune Focus. Basically, you press a button to activate, but while inside the circle you can press it again to pick it up and move it. Press the key again to drop it at a new location. I've advocated for making Rune Focus last longer and have a larger radius which would fit well with this new idea. Of course, you may wonder why you woudn't just recast it rather than pick it up and move it, and the answer is that depends on what I come up with for these spells if I pursue the idea further.

If you like it or want to see this fleshed out more, let me know with comments and/or comment ratings. If you hate it and want it to never be spoken of again, oh well. But I especially like the second rune type since the radius for an ability can still be a *bit* on the smaller but because the Templar can be mobile with it that matters less. If enough of you like the idea or at least want to see what it would look like worked on a bit more, I'll start a new thread when I get the time. Thanks for reading.

Justice31st

I have been watching the, "We Are ESO" podcast and others like it and have been noticing that Richard Lambert and the other game DEVS have been watching it as well. What was the one thing all these 1vX streamers had in common? Nerf Templars.

timidobserver

Justice31st wrote: »

I have been watching the, "We Are ESO" podcast and others like it and have been noticing that Richard Lambert and the other game DEVS have been watching it as well. What was the one thing all these 1vX streamers had in common? Nerf Templars.

Indeed.

Hiero_Glyph

Justice31st wrote: »

I have been watching the, "We Are ESO" podcast and others like it and have been noticing that Richard Lambert and the other game DEVS have been watching it as well. What was the one thing all these 1vX streamers had in common? Nerf Templars.

Except it was never nerf Templars but to make smart healing spam not effective against targets that are through walls/floors. Again, it is a line of sight issue which ZOS continues to ignore. If that same healer had to expose themself to heal a player then they could more easily be targeted instead of being who knows where within a 28m radius. You can blame the PvPers but really this is solely ZOS' fault for once again not understanding the real problem: smart healing.

Justice31st

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

Justice31st wrote: »

I have been watching the, "We Are ESO" podcast and others like it and have been noticing that Richard Lambert and the other game DEVS have been watching it as well. What was the one thing all these 1vX streamers had in common? Nerf Templars.

Except it was never nerf Templars but to make smart healing spam not effective against targets that are through walls/floors. Again, it is a line of sight issue which ZOS continues to ignore. If that same healer had to expose themself to heal a player then they could more easily be targeted instead of being who knows where within a 28m radius. You can blame the PvPers but really this is solely ZOS' fault for once again not understanding the real problem: smart healing.

Not true, healing through doors was just one of their many issues. Another being, Bol healing for too much.

blackcom90

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

Justice31st wrote: »

I have been watching the, "We Are ESO" podcast and others like it and have been noticing that Richard Lambert and the other game DEVS have been watching it as well. What was the one thing all these 1vX streamers had in common? Nerf Templars.

Except it was never nerf Templars but to make smart healing spam not effective against targets that are through walls/floors. Again, it is a line of sight issue which ZOS continues to ignore. If that same healer had to expose themself to heal a player then they could more easily be targeted instead of being who knows where within a 28m radius. You can blame the PvPers but really this is solely ZOS' fault for once again not understanding the real problem: smart healing.

@Wrobel keep failing to create a plan to reach what he merely conceptualized... and while he fail he keep nerfing because he's not a good dev.

Plus we have problems with the structure of the mega server and base program of the game. Smart healing it's not the only technical issue. they have problem with the core working of toppling charge animation, with the function of the skills in pvp and a lot more. Why did they took away stam reg in the whole game instead of only the pvp. Because when they created the system they didn't think of allowing a different function call for every instance. Basically the program need a great overhaul and Wroebel should stop cutting corners to avoid the problems.

IITHEOPII

Temp changes feel great! Makes me feel powerful once again and not hit like a wet noodle, only thing I would wish if they buffed our shields or at least somewhat close to a sorc shield.

technohic

IITHEOPII wrote: »

Temp changes feel great! Makes me feel powerful once again and not hit like a wet noodle, only thing I would wish if they buffed our shields or at least somewhat close to a sorc shield.

Yeah, if we have to be speed bumps with a lack of mobility; would be nice if the attempts to nerf sorcs shields hadn't made ours worthless or it was at least buffed to compensate.

Idinuse

Grunim wrote: »

Northern_Eve wrote: »

At this point I simply feel betrayed and extremely disappointed. I'm not an experienced gamer enough to give good suggestions about Templars. However, this thread is full of great insight and suggestions - and love for the Templar class. The love that I share after spending the past 1,5 years to advance my main character, a simple and regular PvE Templar Healer. Nothing more, nothing less.

Now all that feels like in vain. Not just because of the unfair and unneeded BoL nerf - but because it has become painfully clear how Zos (Mr. Wroebel?) is simply not listening to the feedback they get. It is obvious the classes are not treated equally, and Templars really get the short end of the stick. Not just in healing, though healing is the area that affects me personally the most. But in other areas of the game, too.

So what are my choices now? To keep playing a class that is intentionally being made mediocre in everything they do? Or give up my commitment to this game? I don't have enough playtime to be able to create a new healer with a different class from scratch. Like most people, I work full time to be able to support myself. So starting all over at this point is not an option. I have invested too much in my Templar.

I'm really sad, and it feels weird to be sad about a computer game. So at least Zos has managed to give me a new experience in something...

I can totally understand your feelings of betrayal and disappointment. I've been screwed over in the gaming world in the past so I'm a cynical old gamer who learned to not put all my eggs in one basket. So I have made it a point to play multiple characters and not have a true single main character. I just play on whichever characters seems to be the most fun at the time and screw caring about things like how high your PvP rank is or how many achievement points you earned.

At this point in time, I'm glad I only used up one character slot for templar. After watching today's show I don't have much hope they will be fun to play for a long long time.

ZOS, if you believe templars can be fun to play with the "correct approach" could you please publish a guide teaching us how to play this class in a way that is fun? I sure as oblivion can't see how they can be fun to play.

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

Justice31st wrote: »

I have been watching the, "We Are ESO" podcast and others like it and have been noticing that Richard Lambert and the other game DEVS have been watching it as well. What was the one thing all these 1vX streamers had in common? Nerf Templars.

Except it was never nerf Templars but to make smart healing spam not effective against targets that are through walls/floors. Again, it is a line of sight issue which ZOS continues to ignore. If that same healer had to expose themself to heal a player then they could more easily be targeted instead of being who knows where within a 28m radius. You can blame the PvPers but really this is solely ZOS' fault for once again not understanding the real problem: smart healing.

Initially it was rage against Templars and BoL that was the mantra. The LoS heals nerf came far later. The LoS they didn't get, which would have been ok, but probably taxing on the servers (especially now that everyone and their grannies are going to use Meteor), nor a nerf to general heals since other classes got them buffed to almost at par with where Templars were before.

Even buffed up Pets that heal better in ways than BoL, functioning the same (behind walls, healing 3 allies) but auto heals (I saw a 50K heal screencap) without the casters intervention and doesn't draw Mana with each heal. A fire and forget BoL letting your mana and skill useage go to either escape, applying shields or offensive attacks where a Templar would have to use resources and time each recast of BoL.

BoL nerf is a direct result from that, make no mistake. I've been (somewhat) debating it since more or less the BoL/Templar hate began. My main was even raged over in a live stream.

Can't be sugarcoated or whitewashed with post reconstructions. Too late for that.

Idinuse

IITHEOPII wrote: »

Temp changes feel great! Makes me feel powerful once again and not hit like a wet noodle, only thing I would wish if they buffed our shields or at least somewhat close to a sorc shield.

I agree on that. They better leave it as it is though...might just save my sub. It needs to be tested in the final Live TG.

Sunah

A great spell to add would be a healing fountain type HoT. You place it down and it shoots off tiny balls of light into the air to heal allies nearby (short radius maybe 10m). The heal wouldn't be anything amazing but it would be extra "padding" and just a cool new spell to play with. It would also trigger spell power cure as well. Maybe let people run up and activate it too for some mana or stam, whichever I lowest at the time. Put that effect on a 10 secs cd like shards and call it a day. Boom, more happy healers.

Solariken

What's up guys! Over 1000 comments in this thread! I wonder how much time and effort we've all spent up to this point, only to have our pleas fall on deaf ears. I wish there was more we could do.

tinythinker

Sunah wrote: »

A great spell to add would be a healing fountain type HoT. You place it down and it shoots off tiny balls of light into the air to heal allies nearby (short radius maybe 10m). The heal wouldn't be anything amazing but it would be extra "padding" and just a cool new spell to play with. It would also trigger spell power cure as well. Maybe let people run up and activate it too for some mana or stam, whichever I lowest at the time. Put that effect on a 10 secs cd like shards and call it a day. Boom, more happy healers.

Would a rune-covered Templar acting like a healing fountain work?

blackcom90

tinythinker wrote: »

Sunah wrote: »

A great spell to add would be a healing fountain type HoT. You place it down and it shoots off tiny balls of light into the air to heal allies nearby (short radius maybe 10m). The heal wouldn't be anything amazing but it would be extra "padding" and just a cool new spell to play with. It would also trigger spell power cure as well. Maybe let people run up and activate it too for some mana or stam, whichever I lowest at the time. Put that effect on a 10 secs cd like shards and call it a day. Boom, more happy healers.

Would a rune-covered Templar acting like a healing fountain work?

Great idea... but with eso dx overlapping a cool rune and an armor will probably crash the game. Max you can hope for it's the same graphic effect of the red/blue bubble of banished vet.

tinythinker

blackcom90 wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

Sunah wrote: »

A great spell to add would be a healing fountain type HoT. You place it down and it shoots off tiny balls of light into the air to heal allies nearby (short radius maybe 10m). The heal wouldn't be anything amazing but it would be extra "padding" and just a cool new spell to play with. It would also trigger spell power cure as well. Maybe let people run up and activate it too for some mana or stam, whichever I lowest at the time. Put that effect on a 10 secs cd like shards and call it a day. Boom, more happy healers.

Would a rune-covered Templar acting like a healing fountain work?

Great idea... but with eso dx overlapping a cool rune and an armor will probably crash the game. Max you can hope for it's the same graphic effect of the red/blue bubble of banished vet.

They have those new glow paint costumes for Thieve's Guild, not looking for anything that would be graphics intensive. The artists seem to be able too make costume stuff that doesn't tax things too bad. Not like with all of the particle effect abilities. Have them do the body runes. Cool yes, so cool it lags us to death, no.

Nifty2g

I wonder if 35 pages of negative feedback for the direction they want to take Templars will stop them from continuing.
Luckily I start university next week. Cya next Major Update my Templar brothers

blackcom90

tinythinker wrote: »

blackcom90 wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

Sunah wrote: »

A great spell to add would be a healing fountain type HoT. You place it down and it shoots off tiny balls of light into the air to heal allies nearby (short radius maybe 10m). The heal wouldn't be anything amazing but it would be extra "padding" and just a cool new spell to play with. It would also trigger spell power cure as well. Maybe let people run up and activate it too for some mana or stam, whichever I lowest at the time. Put that effect on a 10 secs cd like shards and call it a day. Boom, more happy healers.

Would a rune-covered Templar acting like a healing fountain work?

Great idea... but with eso dx overlapping a cool rune and an armor will probably crash the game. Max you can hope for it's the same graphic effect of the red/blue bubble of banished vet.

They have those new glow paint costumes for Thieve's Guild, not looking for anything that would be graphics intensive. The artists seem to be able too make costume stuff that doesn't tax things too bad. Not like with all of the particle effect abilities. Have them do the body runes. Cool yes, so cool it lags us to death, no.

They are a static effect on a texture. You instead want a dynamic particellar effect on a 3d layer that should overlap with the armor texture... A lot like the camo hunter, but more extensive and intensive... They are still trying to fix camo...

Nifty2g wrote: »

I wonder if 35 pages of negative feedback for the direction they want to take Templars will stop them from continuing.
Luckily I start university next week. Cya next Major Update my Templar brothers

i think we will have to ship all the 1023 comments on this thread to america to a voice actor studio. then ask for the actor with the biggest voice to go in front of @Wrobel house and read the comments loudly for 1 week no stop.

Good luck for uni btw^^

nagarjunna

As of this post our feedback thread is the same size as all of our Nightblade, Dragonknight and Sorceror feedback combined.

Food for thought!

tinythinker

blackcom90 wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

blackcom90 wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

Sunah wrote: »

A great spell to add would be a healing fountain type HoT. You place it down and it shoots off tiny balls of light into the air to heal allies nearby (short radius maybe 10m). The heal wouldn't be anything amazing but it would be extra "padding" and just a cool new spell to play with. It would also trigger spell power cure as well. Maybe let people run up and activate it too for some mana or stam, whichever I lowest at the time. Put that effect on a 10 secs cd like shards and call it a day. Boom, more happy healers.

Would a rune-covered Templar acting like a healing fountain work?

Great idea... but with eso dx overlapping a cool rune and an armor will probably crash the game. Max you can hope for it's the same graphic effect of the red/blue bubble of banished vet.

They have those new glow paint costumes for Thieve's Guild, not looking for anything that would be graphics intensive. The artists seem to be able too make costume stuff that doesn't tax things too bad. Not like with all of the particle effect abilities. Have them do the body runes. Cool yes, so cool it lags us to death, no.

They are a static effect on a texture. You instead want a dynamic particellar effect on a 3d layer that should overlap with the armor texture... A lot like the camo hunter, but more extensive and intensive... They are still trying to fix camo...

I was thinking of something like a tabbard, only obviously not a tabbard, but I admit I don't know why that is the same as or different than Camo Hunter in detailed terms (I get that one is static and one is dynamically rendered and that one takes more resources to draw/redraw). The reason I mentioned costumes is that I recall one of the artists talking a few months ago about adding layers so you could do something like paint costumes. Extra layers like that could be used to add something, yes?

blackcom90

tinythinker wrote: »

blackcom90 wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

blackcom90 wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

Sunah wrote: »

A great spell to add would be a healing fountain type HoT. You place it down and it shoots off tiny balls of light into the air to heal allies nearby (short radius maybe 10m). The heal wouldn't be anything amazing but it would be extra "padding" and just a cool new spell to play with. It would also trigger spell power cure as well. Maybe let people run up and activate it too for some mana or stam, whichever I lowest at the time. Put that effect on a 10 secs cd like shards and call it a day. Boom, more happy healers.

Would a rune-covered Templar acting like a healing fountain work?

Great idea... but with eso dx overlapping a cool rune and an armor will probably crash the game. Max you can hope for it's the same graphic effect of the red/blue bubble of banished vet.

They have those new glow paint costumes for Thieve's Guild, not looking for anything that would be graphics intensive. The artists seem to be able too make costume stuff that doesn't tax things too bad. Not like with all of the particle effect abilities. Have them do the body runes. Cool yes, so cool it lags us to death, no.

They are a static effect on a texture. You instead want a dynamic particellar effect on a 3d layer that should overlap with the armor texture... A lot like the camo hunter, but more extensive and intensive... They are still trying to fix camo...

I was thinking of something like a tabbard, only obviously not a tabbard, but I admit I don't know why that is the same as or different than Camo Hunter in detailed terms (I get that one is static and one is dynamically rendered and that one takes more resources to draw/redraw). The reason I mentioned costumes is that I recall one of the artists talking a few months ago about adding layers so you could do something like paint costumes. Extra layers like that could be used to add something, yes?

with that approach you can just have a second static layer of paint over you armor.
not really beautiful i dare to say.
It' really a shame how 'till eso will reach dx12, the havok engine will be update and used to the full extent of it's potentiality this game will never have a graphic like bdo (i name bdo because it allow what you are asking).

Havok it's really a powerful engine, but now it's a little castrated by the game itself.

http://www.havok.com

Essiaga

Nifty2g wrote: »

The fact ZOS get us to create a feedback post before PTS was close to being here and they pretty much took none of that advice then they make this feedback thread and take none of the feedback

I'm almost finished honestly

Honestly, this (Nifty giving up on the Templar) would be a huge nerf to the class. ZOS don't let this happen. We've already lost so many great players to other classes and other games.

Kahl_dur wrote: »

You forgot to turn on the xmas lights (Cleansing Ritual).

tinythinker

blackcom90 wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

blackcom90 wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

blackcom90 wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

Sunah wrote: »

A great spell to add would be a healing fountain type HoT. You place it down and it shoots off tiny balls of light into the air to heal allies nearby (short radius maybe 10m). The heal wouldn't be anything amazing but it would be extra "padding" and just a cool new spell to play with. It would also trigger spell power cure as well. Maybe let people run up and activate it too for some mana or stam, whichever I lowest at the time. Put that effect on a 10 secs cd like shards and call it a day. Boom, more happy healers.

Would a rune-covered Templar acting like a healing fountain work?

Great idea... but with eso dx overlapping a cool rune and an armor will probably crash the game. Max you can hope for it's the same graphic effect of the red/blue bubble of banished vet.

They have those new glow paint costumes for Thieve's Guild, not looking for anything that would be graphics intensive. The artists seem to be able too make costume stuff that doesn't tax things too bad. Not like with all of the particle effect abilities. Have them do the body runes. Cool yes, so cool it lags us to death, no.

They are a static effect on a texture. You instead want a dynamic particellar effect on a 3d layer that should overlap with the armor texture... A lot like the camo hunter, but more extensive and intensive... They are still trying to fix camo...

I was thinking of something like a tabbard, only obviously not a tabbard, but I admit I don't know why that is the same as or different than Camo Hunter in detailed terms (I get that one is static and one is dynamically rendered and that one takes more resources to draw/redraw). The reason I mentioned costumes is that I recall one of the artists talking a few months ago about adding layers so you could do something like paint costumes. Extra layers like that could be used to add something, yes?

with that approach you can just have a second static layer of paint over you armor.
not really beautiful i dare to say.
It' really a shame how 'till eso will reach dx12, the havok engine will be update and used to the full extent of it's potentiality this game will never have a graphic like bdo (i name bdo because it allow what you are asking).

Havok it's really a powerful engine, but now it's a little castrated by the game itself.

http://www.havok.com

Hmm, well, that's why I was thinking of what they were doing with the new costumes as an example of what could be possible with runes, but I'd rather have what you're talking about with the dx12 upgrade. Something else to keep "recommending" to ESO through various channels. But is their hesitation because too many players might have outdated computers?

Farorin

Rudyard wrote: »

Oh yeah, that sorc pet that is replacing your heals? It gets covered by sorcs' hardened ward. That's right, the pet with better heals than you gets a shield you can only dream of. That shield also has a 20 second duration, so if not being directly attacked you don't have to recast it as often as say, other, less effective shields. Can you feel the love, Templars? I guess we all need to reroll Sorc.

This is legit making me feel a bit depressed right now.