Official Feedback Thread for Templars

Soris

puffy99 wrote: »

I don't understand what they are trying to do at all with Templars.
Are we suppose to be healers, battlemages or two hand sword dawnbreaker cleansers of the undead?

The problem with the whole class is one of direction, focus and synergy. It sounds like prior to console they had a much better grasp on what the class was suppose to be vs the weird resto/channeled don't move, no skill tree, hit sponge it is now becoming.

What the F happened?

It was always dilemma of the templar class. Should it be a healer or mage type ranged dps or warrior type melee dps or full tank? We have 3 skill lines which are completely different archetypes and playstyles. So we can do all but none of them with full potential except healing. Is that makes us healers? Class description doesn't say that. It says more like paladin related things with a 2 handed weapon in heavy armored knight and some healing capabilities. That's why i created my main char as a templar. But it is no where near to that archetype "anymore" after 1.5

MissBizz

Good day.

I finally had some time to play around on my Templar without streaming. I'm also ready to be reasonable now I guess.

BoL "Tweak"
I have no idea why this change was made, but I've heard a couple different things that may have been part of the reason. Maybe they weren't a thought at all, but if for some reason BoL *needs* a nerf I personally would prefer something different than what has been brought.

Problem: "BoL can outheal my damage output in Cyrodiil"
Cause: Multiple templars available in the surrounding area, which you may never see - each casting BoL. If you (or your group) are constantly attempting to burst down that one enemy it is likely you keep bringing their health down so they end up receivign the big heal from all BoL's in their range.
Solution: Nerf the big BoL heal so there are 3 heals, but all at the 50% mark.

Problem:"Templars can BoL in towers without even being in danger!"
Cause: No LoS checks
Solution: Bring BoL to it's previous version (you know, the one where there's a reason for that third person on the skill icon - and the 1 big heal 2 small), but add a LoS check.

Other nerf versions I'd prefer (so we could still have 3 targets):

• Increased cost.
• A general slight nerf to all 3 of it's heals.
• The "Bolt Escape/Roll Dodge" treatment. This will help stop it from being spammed, but still keeps it's use an an emergency heal.

Essentially what I'm trying to say is I would be more okay with any variation of nerf I can come up with that still allows BoL to heal 3 people. Running with groups I know well and they are well versed in the dungeons is no problem to have this BoL nerf, although when I am running with players new to a dungeon or groups I am not very familiar with I really find BoL to be a life saver.

Obviously none of the above matters. <-- EDIT.

Now for my other thoughts.

You have no idea how happy you made with the that sweeps stun instead of a knockback. THANK YOU. Really.

Dark Flare Buff - Ehhh, to me - this doesn't matter. The most I use dark flare is in a particular dungeon where there's lots of fire and lots of stomping Personally, I just used it for the debuff, and I don't see that changing. I did try to use it on the PTS and it's seems like a good opener but I'm not sure I'm willing to give up something on my bar to put it there. Thanks, but I didn't need this buff.

I'd love to say I tried the shield, but I didn't. My experience with any of those shield morphs is that they get hit ONCE and are done.. sorry. I'm still not intrigued.

I may have whined and complained about need to be inside a circle while healing but I've been playing around with it (and half nerfing myself on live trying to do it, haha) and I think the benefits can outweigh the negatives in my situation. Of course, I'm not running VMSA or that, just good ol' group dungeons.

nagarjunna

blabafat wrote: »

Templar, as @hammayolettuce stated, is in a good spot.

Templar is the most balanced class in the game right now. It excels at some things, but it also lacks some things. That's what a balanced class is.

The only changes I think should occur:
-Radiant Destruction shouldn't be dodgeable yes
-Purifying Light should be able to crit
-Explosive Charge should have a snare or something(Kinda weak atm)
-Fix bugs associated with Focused Charge
-Vampires Bane should be "Magic" damage not "Flame" damageyes via CP change
-Activating a Dawn's Wrath ability gives you 5% spell damage(Minor Sorcery). A different Templar passive gives 6% weapon damage(not a major/minor buff) without requiring anything slotted. Since Templar is seen as a weaker DPS class, a balanced change can be adding a 6% spell damage bonus to the weapon damage passive and changing the 5% spell damage from using a dawn's wrath ability to 5% overall damage

As you can see, these aren't OP, drastic changes. Most of them are minor tweaks to passives or abilities(much of which aren't working as intended).

I'd be happy with all of that. Plus 2 other changes:

1) Restoring Spirit Passive - Revert back to the original Restoring Spirit. However I'd make it a 2%/4% regain that restores either Magicka or Stamina. Alternatively reduce the high cost of our skills.
2) Rune Focus (plus morphs) - make the whole thing mobile.

SirDopey

AfkNinja wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

BullNetch wrote: »

There are Elloa and Deltia.

Indeed, both are my favorite ESO video makers by far.

Unfortunately, Deltia already said he is ok the the BOL nerf. He usually is the guy to ask, but in this case I wonder when was the last time he played Templar in vet dungeons with PUGs? He seems to play only with his vet group, and of course in a team of 500 CP guys even vet dungeons are incredibly easy to heal and he probably will not even notice much of the BOL nerf because he does not even need BOL in such groups. However, when you heal PUG groups with more than one V1 guy or even non-vets, every heal counts and the BOL nerf will drastically increase the wipes and reduce the fun. I will probably not run with PUGS anymore after this patch, because all people will blame the crappy healers, not the crappy BOL.

Even worse than the BOL nerf is the change to Sweeps, requiring you to stand still in a Focus Rune to receive the former healing, even though HA players do not even use Focus Runes and prefer Immovable Brute/Unstoppable to get mobility and Major Ward/Resolve. This example clearly shows that even ZOS seems to see Templars only as healing drones, deserving to be nailed as target dummies. I cannot remember the last time when I was standing still on the same spot in vet dungeons, vma or PvP. Standing still is the best way to get killed. It is just DUMB to play this way, but ZOS wants people to do so. No, thank you.

You can still run Immovable and use Purifying Ritual to get Major Mending.

So in order to maintain the same health to damage results in vMA I need to free up a slot and use an additional ability I wasn't using before, draining my resources even more and stay within its parameter. Yes, that's balance

Please don't defend these crippling changes...

AfkNinja

SirDopey wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

BullNetch wrote: »

There are Elloa and Deltia.

Indeed, both are my favorite ESO video makers by far.

Unfortunately, Deltia already said he is ok the the BOL nerf. He usually is the guy to ask, but in this case I wonder when was the last time he played Templar in vet dungeons with PUGs? He seems to play only with his vet group, and of course in a team of 500 CP guys even vet dungeons are incredibly easy to heal and he probably will not even notice much of the BOL nerf because he does not even need BOL in such groups. However, when you heal PUG groups with more than one V1 guy or even non-vets, every heal counts and the BOL nerf will drastically increase the wipes and reduce the fun. I will probably not run with PUGS anymore after this patch, because all people will blame the crappy healers, not the crappy BOL.

Even worse than the BOL nerf is the change to Sweeps, requiring you to stand still in a Focus Rune to receive the former healing, even though HA players do not even use Focus Runes and prefer Immovable Brute/Unstoppable to get mobility and Major Ward/Resolve. This example clearly shows that even ZOS seems to see Templars only as healing drones, deserving to be nailed as target dummies. I cannot remember the last time when I was standing still on the same spot in vet dungeons, vma or PvP. Standing still is the best way to get killed. It is just DUMB to play this way, but ZOS wants people to do so. No, thank you.

You can still run Immovable and use Purifying Ritual to get Major Mending.

So in order to maintain the same health to damage results in vMA I need to free up a slot and use an additional ability I wasn't using before, draining my resources even more and stay within its parameter. Yes, that's balance

Please don't defend these crippling changes...

Maybe if you had read the post right after that you would have realized I wasn't defending the changes, just making sure people are accurate in the information they are reporting in here.

Nifty2g

Puncturing Sweeps: I tried out Puncturing Sweep with Rapid Regen and Purifying Ritual - It's still weak. The heal needs to be increased it is being affected by Battle Spirit healing reduction, I don't know who at ZOS does the testings but this heal is fine in PvE but absolutely terrible in PvP at least give it some sort of balance testings. As I've mentioned a thousand times in the past, you really need to give Puncturing Sweep Heal the ability to crit with an ICD on it. I really want to know who deals with these Templar changes cause I don't believe it's Wrobel.

Balance Warrior: This needs to give Spell Damage, yes Stamplars need love but so do Magicka Templars in PvP. Giving Spell Damage will solve a lot of the issues players are having by being too weak.

Cresent Sweep: I believe this is still bugged, as no mention of it in the patch notes and ignored so I'll post it again

Asayre wrote: »

There are two bugs with Crescent Sweep
1. It does less than the tooltip damage
2. When it crits, it does not take into account Elfborn (it may be taking into account Piercing Strikes but I did not test this)



In the image above, I am attacking an effectively 0 resistance mob. Puncturing sweep does 2808 base damage and 4970 when it crits. My crit multiplier is 0.77 (0.5 base + 0.1 Piercing Spear + 0.17 Elfborn). The base damage of 2808 is exactly 2.4 times the tooltip value of Puncturing Sweep which is 1170. However Crescent Sweep deals 7061 damage which is less than the tooltip value of 8322. The DoT ticks of Crescent Sweep does 3927 base damage and 6951 on crits. The 3927 matches the tooltip value of 3927 and the crit multiplier here is still 0.77.


In this second image, Puncturing Sweep and DoT ticks of Crescent Sweep does the same damage as before. When Crescent Sweep crits, it deals 11298 damage. This means the crit multiplier for Crescent Sweep is 0.6 (11298/7061). This suggest that Elfborn is not being applied correct to the initial damage of Crescent Sweep but Elfborn is applied correctly to the DoT ticks of Crescent Sweep.

Toppling Charge: I believe the other morph has not been affected by the charge bug, mind abandoning the Toppling Charge seeing as it most likely wont ever be fixed and working on the other Morph as @blabafat mentioned

Vampires Bane: This ability travels way too slow, could we increase it?

Sun Shield / Blazing Shield: All Templars want right now is a useful shield, increase the Shield on Sun Shield and Blazing Shield, just make Blazing Shield deal less damage to weigh it out

Burning Light: What happened to this, there was no mention of it? Was it stealth added, I posted twice in the Patch Notes thread and didn't get an answer, I'm hoping the damage wasn't lowered for nothing cause so far I'm only noticing a damage nerf to Burning Light but no double procs.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*] Burning Light – The proc chance appears to be lower than 25%

• There’s currently a half-second cooldown on this ability so when using a fast attack, such as Puncturing Strikes, it will not proc twice in a row. Also note that we’ve balanced the DPS of these abilities with this in mind.

Dimmit

ZOS definitely wants templars to disappear from the game. Why not just delete the class?

Does anyone from dev team actually play templar? How do you do that? How do you kill other classes in game?

Minno

Nifty2g wrote: »

Puncturing Sweeps: I tried out Puncturing Sweep with Rapid Regen and Purifying Ritual - It's still weak. The heal needs to be increased it is being affected by Battle Spirit healing reduction, I don't know who at ZOS does the testings but this heal is fine in PvE but absolutely terrible in PvP at least give it some sort of balance testings. As I've mentioned a thousand times in the past, you really need to give Puncturing Sweep Heal the ability to crit with an ICD on it. I really want to know who deals with these Templar changes cause I don't believe it's Wrobel.

Balance Warrior: This needs to give Spell Damage, yes Stamplars need love but so do Magicka Templars in PvP. Giving Spell Damage will solve a lot of the issues players are having by being too weak.

Cresent Sweep: I believe this is still bugged, as no mention of it in the patch notes and ignored so I'll post it again

Asayre wrote: »

There are two bugs with Crescent Sweep
1. It does less than the tooltip damage
2. When it crits, it does not take into account Elfborn (it may be taking into account Piercing Strikes but I did not test this)



In the image above, I am attacking an effectively 0 resistance mob. Puncturing sweep does 2808 base damage and 4970 when it crits. My crit multiplier is 0.77 (0.5 base + 0.1 Piercing Spear + 0.17 Elfborn). The base damage of 2808 is exactly 2.4 times the tooltip value of Puncturing Sweep which is 1170. However Crescent Sweep deals 7061 damage which is less than the tooltip value of 8322. The DoT ticks of Crescent Sweep does 3927 base damage and 6951 on crits. The 3927 matches the tooltip value of 3927 and the crit multiplier here is still 0.77.


In this second image, Puncturing Sweep and DoT ticks of Crescent Sweep does the same damage as before. When Crescent Sweep crits, it deals 11298 damage. This means the crit multiplier for Crescent Sweep is 0.6 (11298/7061). This suggest that Elfborn is not being applied correct to the initial damage of Crescent Sweep but Elfborn is applied correctly to the DoT ticks of Crescent Sweep.

Toppling Charge: I believe the other morph has not been affected by the charge bug, mind abandoning the Toppling Charge seeing as it most likely wont ever be fixed and working on the other Morph as @blabafat mentioned

Vampires Bane: This ability travels way too slow, could we increase it?

Sun Shield / Blazing Shield: All Templars want right now is a useful shield, increase the Shield on Sun Shield and Blazing Shield, just make Blazing Shield deal less damage to weigh it out

Burning Light: What happened to this, there was no mention of it? Was it stealth added, I posted twice in the Patch Notes thread and didn't get an answer, I'm hoping the damage wasn't lowered for nothing cause so far I'm only noticing a damage nerf to Burning Light but no double procs.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*] Burning Light – The proc chance appears to be lower than 25%

• There’s currently a half-second cooldown on this ability so when using a fast attack, such as Puncturing Strikes, it will not proc twice in a row. Also note that we’ve balanced the DPS of these abilities with this in mind.

Thanks for the info!

What you other spells and asayre working on testing next?

Nifty2g

Minno wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Puncturing Sweeps: I tried out Puncturing Sweep with Rapid Regen and Purifying Ritual - It's still weak. The heal needs to be increased it is being affected by Battle Spirit healing reduction, I don't know who at ZOS does the testings but this heal is fine in PvE but absolutely terrible in PvP at least give it some sort of balance testings. As I've mentioned a thousand times in the past, you really need to give Puncturing Sweep Heal the ability to crit with an ICD on it. I really want to know who deals with these Templar changes cause I don't believe it's Wrobel.

Balance Warrior: This needs to give Spell Damage, yes Stamplars need love but so do Magicka Templars in PvP. Giving Spell Damage will solve a lot of the issues players are having by being too weak.

Cresent Sweep: I believe this is still bugged, as no mention of it in the patch notes and ignored so I'll post it again

Asayre wrote: »

There are two bugs with Crescent Sweep
1. It does less than the tooltip damage
2. When it crits, it does not take into account Elfborn (it may be taking into account Piercing Strikes but I did not test this)



In the image above, I am attacking an effectively 0 resistance mob. Puncturing sweep does 2808 base damage and 4970 when it crits. My crit multiplier is 0.77 (0.5 base + 0.1 Piercing Spear + 0.17 Elfborn). The base damage of 2808 is exactly 2.4 times the tooltip value of Puncturing Sweep which is 1170. However Crescent Sweep deals 7061 damage which is less than the tooltip value of 8322. The DoT ticks of Crescent Sweep does 3927 base damage and 6951 on crits. The 3927 matches the tooltip value of 3927 and the crit multiplier here is still 0.77.


In this second image, Puncturing Sweep and DoT ticks of Crescent Sweep does the same damage as before. When Crescent Sweep crits, it deals 11298 damage. This means the crit multiplier for Crescent Sweep is 0.6 (11298/7061). This suggest that Elfborn is not being applied correct to the initial damage of Crescent Sweep but Elfborn is applied correctly to the DoT ticks of Crescent Sweep.

Toppling Charge: I believe the other morph has not been affected by the charge bug, mind abandoning the Toppling Charge seeing as it most likely wont ever be fixed and working on the other Morph as @blabafat mentioned

Vampires Bane: This ability travels way too slow, could we increase it?

Sun Shield / Blazing Shield: All Templars want right now is a useful shield, increase the Shield on Sun Shield and Blazing Shield, just make Blazing Shield deal less damage to weigh it out

Burning Light: What happened to this, there was no mention of it? Was it stealth added, I posted twice in the Patch Notes thread and didn't get an answer, I'm hoping the damage wasn't lowered for nothing cause so far I'm only noticing a damage nerf to Burning Light but no double procs.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*] Burning Light – The proc chance appears to be lower than 25%

• There’s currently a half-second cooldown on this ability so when using a fast attack, such as Puncturing Strikes, it will not proc twice in a row. Also note that we’ve balanced the DPS of these abilities with this in mind.

Thanks for the info!

What you other spells and asayre working on testing next?

I'm not sure if he's testing anything for Templars at the moment, mainly for Sorcerers as it's his main

Back to Burning Light, there is an issue that hasn't been mentioned

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Burning Light – The proc chance appears to be lower than 25%

There’s currently a half-second cooldown on this ability so when using a fast attack, such as Puncturing Strikes, it will not proc twice in a row. Also note that we’ve balanced the DPS of these abilities with this in mind.

With 84 hits of Puncturing Sweeps, 42 Hits of Blazing Spear Pulse and 7 Hits from Blazing Spear I received 26 procs from Burning Light, highest damage being 8,343 Crit with Full Raid Buffs. It seems like you have reduced the damage of Burning Light and reduced the proc chance

timidobserver

Nifty2g wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Puncturing Sweeps: I tried out Puncturing Sweep with Rapid Regen and Purifying Ritual - It's still weak. The heal needs to be increased it is being affected by Battle Spirit healing reduction, I don't know who at ZOS does the testings but this heal is fine in PvE but absolutely terrible in PvP at least give it some sort of balance testings. As I've mentioned a thousand times in the past, you really need to give Puncturing Sweep Heal the ability to crit with an ICD on it. I really want to know who deals with these Templar changes cause I don't believe it's Wrobel.

Balance Warrior: This needs to give Spell Damage, yes Stamplars need love but so do Magicka Templars in PvP. Giving Spell Damage will solve a lot of the issues players are having by being too weak.

Cresent Sweep: I believe this is still bugged, as no mention of it in the patch notes and ignored so I'll post it again

Asayre wrote: »

There are two bugs with Crescent Sweep
1. It does less than the tooltip damage
2. When it crits, it does not take into account Elfborn (it may be taking into account Piercing Strikes but I did not test this)



In the image above, I am attacking an effectively 0 resistance mob. Puncturing sweep does 2808 base damage and 4970 when it crits. My crit multiplier is 0.77 (0.5 base + 0.1 Piercing Spear + 0.17 Elfborn). The base damage of 2808 is exactly 2.4 times the tooltip value of Puncturing Sweep which is 1170. However Crescent Sweep deals 7061 damage which is less than the tooltip value of 8322. The DoT ticks of Crescent Sweep does 3927 base damage and 6951 on crits. The 3927 matches the tooltip value of 3927 and the crit multiplier here is still 0.77.


In this second image, Puncturing Sweep and DoT ticks of Crescent Sweep does the same damage as before. When Crescent Sweep crits, it deals 11298 damage. This means the crit multiplier for Crescent Sweep is 0.6 (11298/7061). This suggest that Elfborn is not being applied correct to the initial damage of Crescent Sweep but Elfborn is applied correctly to the DoT ticks of Crescent Sweep.

Toppling Charge: I believe the other morph has not been affected by the charge bug, mind abandoning the Toppling Charge seeing as it most likely wont ever be fixed and working on the other Morph as @blabafat mentioned

Vampires Bane: This ability travels way too slow, could we increase it?

Sun Shield / Blazing Shield: All Templars want right now is a useful shield, increase the Shield on Sun Shield and Blazing Shield, just make Blazing Shield deal less damage to weigh it out

Burning Light: What happened to this, there was no mention of it? Was it stealth added, I posted twice in the Patch Notes thread and didn't get an answer, I'm hoping the damage wasn't lowered for nothing cause so far I'm only noticing a damage nerf to Burning Light but no double procs.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*] Burning Light – The proc chance appears to be lower than 25%

• There’s currently a half-second cooldown on this ability so when using a fast attack, such as Puncturing Strikes, it will not proc twice in a row. Also note that we’ve balanced the DPS of these abilities with this in mind.

Thanks for the info!

What you other spells and asayre working on testing next?

I'm not sure if he's testing anything for Templars at the moment, mainly for Sorcerers as it's his main

Back to Burning Light, there is an issue that hasn't been mentioned

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Burning Light – The proc chance appears to be lower than 25%

There’s currently a half-second cooldown on this ability so when using a fast attack, such as Puncturing Strikes, it will not proc twice in a row. Also note that we’ve balanced the DPS of these abilities with this in mind.

With 84 hits of Puncturing Sweeps, 42 Hits of Blazing Spear Pulse and 7 Hits from Blazing Spear I received 26 procs from Burning Light, highest damage being 8,343 Crit with Full Raid Buffs. It seems like you have reduced the damage of Burning Light and reduced the proc chance

That moment when your previous request for a buff to something nets you a nerf to it if instead.

cazlonb16_ESO

Sounds like Nifty came back down to earth after his initial euphoric reaction to the patch...

Minno

timidobserver wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Puncturing Sweeps: I tried out Puncturing Sweep with Rapid Regen and Purifying Ritual - It's still weak. The heal needs to be increased it is being affected by Battle Spirit healing reduction, I don't know who at ZOS does the testings but this heal is fine in PvE but absolutely terrible in PvP at least give it some sort of balance testings. As I've mentioned a thousand times in the past, you really need to give Puncturing Sweep Heal the ability to crit with an ICD on it. I really want to know who deals with these Templar changes cause I don't believe it's Wrobel.

Balance Warrior: This needs to give Spell Damage, yes Stamplars need love but so do Magicka Templars in PvP. Giving Spell Damage will solve a lot of the issues players are having by being too weak.

Cresent Sweep: I believe this is still bugged, as no mention of it in the patch notes and ignored so I'll post it again

Asayre wrote: »

There are two bugs with Crescent Sweep
1. It does less than the tooltip damage
2. When it crits, it does not take into account Elfborn (it may be taking into account Piercing Strikes but I did not test this)



In the image above, I am attacking an effectively 0 resistance mob. Puncturing sweep does 2808 base damage and 4970 when it crits. My crit multiplier is 0.77 (0.5 base + 0.1 Piercing Spear + 0.17 Elfborn). The base damage of 2808 is exactly 2.4 times the tooltip value of Puncturing Sweep which is 1170. However Crescent Sweep deals 7061 damage which is less than the tooltip value of 8322. The DoT ticks of Crescent Sweep does 3927 base damage and 6951 on crits. The 3927 matches the tooltip value of 3927 and the crit multiplier here is still 0.77.


In this second image, Puncturing Sweep and DoT ticks of Crescent Sweep does the same damage as before. When Crescent Sweep crits, it deals 11298 damage. This means the crit multiplier for Crescent Sweep is 0.6 (11298/7061). This suggest that Elfborn is not being applied correct to the initial damage of Crescent Sweep but Elfborn is applied correctly to the DoT ticks of Crescent Sweep.

Toppling Charge: I believe the other morph has not been affected by the charge bug, mind abandoning the Toppling Charge seeing as it most likely wont ever be fixed and working on the other Morph as @blabafat mentioned

Vampires Bane: This ability travels way too slow, could we increase it?

Sun Shield / Blazing Shield: All Templars want right now is a useful shield, increase the Shield on Sun Shield and Blazing Shield, just make Blazing Shield deal less damage to weigh it out

Burning Light: What happened to this, there was no mention of it? Was it stealth added, I posted twice in the Patch Notes thread and didn't get an answer, I'm hoping the damage wasn't lowered for nothing cause so far I'm only noticing a damage nerf to Burning Light but no double procs.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*] Burning Light – The proc chance appears to be lower than 25%

• There’s currently a half-second cooldown on this ability so when using a fast attack, such as Puncturing Strikes, it will not proc twice in a row. Also note that we’ve balanced the DPS of these abilities with this in mind.

Thanks for the info!

What you other spells and asayre working on testing next?

I'm not sure if he's testing anything for Templars at the moment, mainly for Sorcerers as it's his main

Back to Burning Light, there is an issue that hasn't been mentioned

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Burning Light – The proc chance appears to be lower than 25%

There’s currently a half-second cooldown on this ability so when using a fast attack, such as Puncturing Strikes, it will not proc twice in a row. Also note that we’ve balanced the DPS of these abilities with this in mind.

With 84 hits of Puncturing Sweeps, 42 Hits of Blazing Spear Pulse and 7 Hits from Blazing Spear I received 26 procs from Burning Light, highest damage being 8,343 Crit with Full Raid Buffs. It seems like you have reduced the damage of Burning Light and reduced the proc chance

That moment when your previous request for a buff to something nets you a nerf to it if instead.

I take back anything I said defending Templar changes lol.

MissBizz

For anyone who missed it there is some news here:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/246537/gameplay-updates-and-q-a-with-eric-wrobel

They aren't changing BoL back, in any way shape or form. Not budging.

Mentioned a couple other thoughts about changes for templars though.

Nifty2g

cazlonb16_ESO wrote: »

Sounds like Nifty came back down to earth after his initial euphoric reaction to the patch...

nah im just listing obvious changes that are needed, pve wise templars are most likely the strongest but in pvp it's really weak still with 100% no charge on toppling charge

though i've barely been testing anything in pvp but most of the changes are very pve heavy and a huge nerf to the main dps of a pvp templar from puncturing sweeps and burning light that wasn't documented is pretty bad on zos's side

it's also annoying for a company to completely ignore game breaking skills that have been bugged reported many times and leaves the class with skills that doesn't work. it should be a priority to fix them

timidobserver

MissBizz wrote: »

For anyone who missed it there is some news here:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/246537/gameplay-updates-and-q-a-with-eric-wrobel

They aren't changing BoL back, in any way shape or form. Not budging.

Mentioned a couple other thoughts about changes for templars though.

Scavenger hunt. Who can find the line in what was posted that looks like a buff for us but will probably result in a huge nerf.

danno8

Nifty2g wrote: »

Back to Burning Light, there is an issue that hasn't been mentioned

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Burning Light – The proc chance appears to be lower than 25%

There’s currently a half-second cooldown on this ability so when using a fast attack, such as Puncturing Strikes, it will not proc twice in a row. Also note that we’ve balanced the DPS of these abilities with this in mind.

With 84 hits of Puncturing Sweeps, 42 Hits of Blazing Spear Pulse and 7 Hits from Blazing Spear I received 26 procs from Burning Light, highest damage being 8,343 Crit with Full Raid Buffs. It seems like you have reduced the damage of Burning Light and reduced the proc chance

With a half second cooldown you can pretty much cut the number of hits eligible for Burning Light from Puncturing Sweep from 84 to 42 maximum.

42+42+7 = 91 / 26 = 28.5% proc

Seems ok to me?

danno8

Nifty2g wrote: »

Puncturing Sweeps: I tried out Puncturing Sweep with Rapid Regen and Purifying Ritual - It's still weak. The heal needs to be increased it is being affected by Battle Spirit healing reduction, I don't know who at ZOS does the testings but this heal is fine in PvE but absolutely terrible in PvP at least give it some sort of balance testings.

Not surprised. When they replaced the 40% with a 35% they probably forgot to add the exception rule back in.

@ZOS_GinaBruno Can you let them know about this. I know you have nothing better to do.

Joy_Division

Thanks @Nifty2g for his extensive and detailed testing regarding key Templar skills.

Gina says what feedback we gave will come with the next incremental PTS patch, so I will wait until then before giving what were my first impressions (which I have posted earlier and elsewhere).

We'll see...

Nifty2g

danno8 wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Back to Burning Light, there is an issue that hasn't been mentioned

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Burning Light – The proc chance appears to be lower than 25%

There’s currently a half-second cooldown on this ability so when using a fast attack, such as Puncturing Strikes, it will not proc twice in a row. Also note that we’ve balanced the DPS of these abilities with this in mind.

With 84 hits of Puncturing Sweeps, 42 Hits of Blazing Spear Pulse and 7 Hits from Blazing Spear I received 26 procs from Burning Light, highest damage being 8,343 Crit with Full Raid Buffs. It seems like you have reduced the damage of Burning Light and reduced the proc chance

With a half second cooldown you can pretty much cut the number of hits eligible for Burning Light from Puncturing Sweep from 84 to 42 maximum.

42+42+7 = 91 / 26 = 28.5% proc

Seems ok to me?

I believe there has been a damage nerf based on what I'm currently getting from PTS, I'll wait till my download is finished and do some proper testings
But I haven't noticed any double procs nor any changes apart from dealing slightly less damage compared to Live

SirDopey

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hello everyone!


[*] Templars: We’ve been reading your feedback across the forums. We understand your frustration, and do appreciate you taking the time to let us know about your pain points. We have some additional changes going in for you in the next patch including increasing the duration of the damage reduction from Empowering Sweep, increasing the bonus to the initial hit from Crescent Sweep, and adjusting the buffs from Rune Focus to stay on you for 8 seconds after leaving the rune.
[/list]

Okay! I don't care much for empowering sweep, but if they're true to their word and ALL buffs stay on Rune Focus for the 8 seconds, I will stomach the other nerfs.....

AfkNinja

SirDopey wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hello everyone!


[*] Templars: We’ve been reading your feedback across the forums. We understand your frustration, and do appreciate you taking the time to let us know about your pain points. We have some additional changes going in for you in the next patch including increasing the duration of the damage reduction from Empowering Sweep, increasing the bonus to the initial hit from Crescent Sweep, and adjusting the buffs from Rune Focus to stay on you for 8 seconds after leaving the rune.
[/list]

Okay! I don't care much for empowering sweep, but if they're true to their word and ALL buffs stay on Rune Focus for the 8 seconds, I will stomach the other nerfs.....

I'LL TAKE IT!!!

Edit: If this is the best they will give us I will take it. Would still prefer a 20 second armor buff though.

Zinaroth

SirDopey wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hello everyone!


[*] Templars: We’ve been reading your feedback across the forums. We understand your frustration, and do appreciate you taking the time to let us know about your pain points. We have some additional changes going in for you in the next patch including increasing the duration of the damage reduction from Empowering Sweep, increasing the bonus to the initial hit from Crescent Sweep, and adjusting the buffs from Rune Focus to stay on you for 8 seconds after leaving the rune.
[/list]

Okay! I don't care much for empowering sweep, but if they're true to their word and ALL buffs stay on Rune Focus for the 8 seconds, I will stomach the other nerfs.....

Zinaroth wrote: »

Still nothing here to help stamina templars. Also you need to make rune focus a true self buff. Allowing the secondary effects to follow for 8 seconds will not be enough. It is too much micro management keeping this up. Let Major Mending be something given when standing inside Purfying Ritual and make Rune Focus into a full 20 seconds self buff with Major Ward, Major Resolve and Minor Protection along with either Minor Mending or magicka regen depending on what morph you take. In no way shape or form will this be too strong for a class that is already struggling.

Just thought I would post it here aswell.

BalticBlues

MissBizz wrote: »

For anyone who missed it there is some news here:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/246537/gameplay-updates-and-q-a-with-eric-wrobel
They aren't changing BoL back, in any way shape or form. Not budging.

They even had the nerves to say they watched life streams and BOL was too powerful.

ZOS devs, for gods sake, please play your own game instead of watching streams.
There are no life streams where people play vet dungeons in PUGs.

Today's vet pledge is City of Ash.
This is a typical dungeon where PUGs will die without a working BOL.
ZOS, please take your controllers and start a PUG for vCoA.
Once you will have people in your group who are not V16,
please tell us what you honestly think from first hand experience.

ZOS, be so fair and give us at least the option to change classes now.
Enough is enough. I loved and played my Templar since release, collected all skyshards, lore books, made each and every quest and spent months in Alliance Wars to get the skills. With each patch, it sucks more to play this class. Probably because nobody at ZOS plays it anymore, they prefer watching streams... I play this class, and I simply cannot bear the cripplings anymore. My baby Sorc plays like a charm compared to my crippled Templar. Please do not demand that I have to spend months again in skyshards, lore books, quests and Alliance Wars again. I want to have fun in the game again, not frustration.

Help us crippled Templars at least for one time in all these years and allow a class change now.
THANK YOU.

timidobserver

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

• Breath of Life: We understand that many of you are frustrated with this change, but we found the ability was a little too powerful as a single ability (both as a single target and AoE healing ability). We’ve been watching a lot of livestreams, and Templars appear to still be very useful using this ability in conjunction with others. This includes using Focused Healing which now grants you the Major Mending buff, or Healing Ritual which has a decreased cast time. We don’t currently have any plans to change Breath of Life beyond what’s already been done.

Thanks for the honesty in admitting out who caused the nerf. At least the Templar community can see straight from ZOS who is getting them nerfed. They can clearly understand whose feedback is more important(the massive detailed threads posted by regular players or the complaints of a few streamers.) Basically, you've said here that streamers are the reason for this knee-jerk nerf being given a higher priority than properly fixing focused charge which has been bugged for years.

I would honestly be okay with the nerf if the changes you gave us were good enough to balance out the nerf.

AriBoh

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*] Breath of Life: We understand that many of you are frustrated with this change, but we found the ability was a little too powerful as a single ability (according to the streamers that give us free publicity). We’ve been watching a lot of livestreams, and we like the free advertising we get from them so we'll pander and brown our noses to their every whim.

timidobserver

AfkNinja wrote: »

SirDopey wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hello everyone!


[*] Templars: We’ve been reading your feedback across the forums. We understand your frustration, and do appreciate you taking the time to let us know about your pain points. We have some additional changes going in for you in the next patch including increasing the duration of the damage reduction from Empowering Sweep, increasing the bonus to the initial hit from Crescent Sweep, and adjusting the buffs from Rune Focus to stay on you for 8 seconds after leaving the rune.
[/list]

Okay! I don't care much for empowering sweep, but if they're true to their word and ALL buffs stay on Rune Focus for the 8 seconds, I will stomach the other nerfs.....

I'LL TAKE IT!!!

Edit: If this is the best they will give us I will take it. Would still prefer a 20 second armor buff though.

I don't understand what you are" taking." The buffs granted directly by base skill Rune Focus already stay on you for 8 seconds after leaving the circle. If they apply this "buff" to the morphs it would be a massive nerf to Channeled Focus and a slight buff to Restoring Focus.

MissBizz

BalticBlues wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

For anyone who missed it there is some news here:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/246537/gameplay-updates-and-q-a-with-eric-wrobel
They aren't changing BoL back, in any way shape or form. Not budging.

They even had the nerves to say they watched life streams and BOL was too powerful.

ZOS devs, for gods sake, please play your own game instead of watching streams.
There are no life streams where people play vet dungeons in PUGs.

Today's vet pledge is City of Ash.
This is a typical dungeon where PUGs will die without a working BOL.
ZOS, please take your controllers and start a PUG for vCoA.
Once you will have people in your group who are not V16,
please tell us what you honestly think from first hand experience.

ZOS, be so fair and give us at least the option to change classes now.
Enough is enough. I loved and played my Templar since release, collected all skyshards, lore books, made each and every quest and spent months in Alliance Wars to get the skills. With each patch, it sucks more to play this class. Probably because nobody at ZOS plays it anymore, they prefer watching streams... I play this class, and I simply cannot bear the cripplings anymore. My baby Sorc plays like a charm compared to my crippled Templar. Please do not demand that I have to spend months again in skyshards, lore books, quests and Alliance Wars again. I want to have fun in the game again, not frustration.

Help us crippled Templars at least for one time in all these years and allow a class change now.
THANK YOU.

I've played PuG (or very close... guildmates I've never ran with or a group with 1 friend and 2 random folks we don't know) dungeons on my twitch channel. Unfortunately not on the PTS and apparently we only had 1 week to show them our feedback and thoughts before they refused to move on this. I do agree though. 99% of livestreams (including my own) will NOT be with PuGs. I'm not an amazing player, but many folks who livestream ARE. When I play with amazing people I'll do just fine with the BoL nerf too.

maxjapank

timidobserver wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

SirDopey wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hello everyone!


[*] Templars: We’ve been reading your feedback across the forums. We understand your frustration, and do appreciate you taking the time to let us know about your pain points. We have some additional changes going in for you in the next patch including increasing the duration of the damage reduction from Empowering Sweep, increasing the bonus to the initial hit from Crescent Sweep, and adjusting the buffs from Rune Focus to stay on you for 8 seconds after leaving the rune.
[/list]

Okay! I don't care much for empowering sweep, but if they're true to their word and ALL buffs stay on Rune Focus for the 8 seconds, I will stomach the other nerfs.....

I'LL TAKE IT!!!

Edit: If this is the best they will give us I will take it. Would still prefer a 20 second armor buff though.

I don't understand what you are" taking." The buffs granted directly by base skill Rune Focus already stay on you for 8 seconds after leaving the circle. If they apply this "buff" to the morphs it would be a massive nerf to Channeled Focus and a slight buff to Restoring Focus.

Honestly speaking, the in-game tooltip for Channeled Focus right now says that you regen Magicka while within the rune focus. The fact that you continued to receive the regen while leaving the focus was likely unintended. I was actually suprised to know that this hasn't been the case and I'm sure other Templars were, too.

So..if they are meaning to allow the morphs to last 8 seconds after leaving the rune the same as the buffs to physical and magical resistances, I am very, very happy. Sure...I would love for this to last 10-20 seconds. But compared to the first patch notes that required us to stay in the focus for the morphs, I see this as a buff. It is a really, really cheap spell. And this at least, allows a bit more mobility.

bikerangelo

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

• Breath of Life: We understand that many of you are frustrated with this change, but we found the ability was a little too powerful as a single ability (both as a single target and AoE healing ability). We’ve been watching a lot of livestreams, and Templars appear to still be very useful using this ability in conjunction with others. This includes using Focused Healing which now grants you the Major Mending buff, or Healing Ritual which has a decreased cast time. We don’t currently have any plans to change Breath of Life beyond what’s already been done.
  
• Templars: We’ve been reading your feedback across the forums. We understand your frustration, and do appreciate you taking the time to let us know about your pain points. We have some additional changes going in for you in the next patch including increasing the duration of the damage reduction from Empowering Sweep, increasing the bonus to the initial hit from Crescent Sweep, and adjusting the buffs from Rune Focus to stay on you for 8 seconds after leaving the rune.

Play. Your. Damn. Game.
Watching streams is not how you develop an educated opinion on your own combat system. Just play the game. Seriously.

As for the buffs, those are literally the last things that need adjustments. You do not seem to understand that Radial Sweep is the most worthless ultimate in the game because of its inability to reliably make contact with enemy players. Also, Rune Focus is already functioning like that both on live and on the PTS, so no one had to touch anything for that "change."
Just as an FYI, this isn't addressed directly at Gina (as some might assume), she's just the deliverer of lots of bad news.

Nifty2g

timidobserver wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

• Breath of Life: We understand that many of you are frustrated with this change, but we found the ability was a little too powerful as a single ability (both as a single target and AoE healing ability). We’ve been watching a lot of livestreams, and Templars appear to still be very useful using this ability in conjunction with others. This includes using Focused Healing which now grants you the Major Mending buff, or Healing Ritual which has a decreased cast time. We don’t currently have any plans to change Breath of Life beyond what’s already been done.

Thanks for the honesty in admitting out who caused the nerf. At least the Templar community can see straight from ZOS who is getting them nerfed. They can clearly understand whose feedback is more important(the massive detailed threads posted by regular players or the complaints of a few streamers.) Basically, you've said here that streamers are the reason for this knee-jerk nerf being given a higher priority than properly fixing focused charge which has been bugged for years.

I would honestly be okay with the nerf if the changes you gave us were good enough to balance out the nerf.

I think I said this awhile ago though, ZOS need to stop listening to 1vXers, sure some of the feedback is very good but other times it's very biased when they die and throw out such odd suggestions to make it benefit themselves. Again I'm not saying any names but it's very common in streamers to do this.
When coming out with changes as such as these you need to consider both Group and Solo play, furthermore a change like this will just increase the stacking of more Templars spamming BoL in group which will just make the healing even worse. Especially if they all spam Major Mending