Official Feedback Thread for Templars

timidobserver · February 2016

maxjapank wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

SirDopey wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hello everyone!

[*] Templars: We’ve been reading your feedback across the forums. We understand your frustration, and do appreciate you taking the time to let us know about your pain points. We have some additional changes going in for you in the next patch including increasing the duration of the damage reduction from Empowering Sweep, increasing the bonus to the initial hit from Crescent Sweep, and adjusting the buffs from Rune Focus to stay on you for 8 seconds after leaving the rune.
[/list]

Okay! I don't care much for empowering sweep, but if they're true to their word and ALL buffs stay on Rune Focus for the 8 seconds, I will stomach the other nerfs.....

I'LL TAKE IT!!!

Edit: If this is the best they will give us I will take it. Would still prefer a 20 second armor buff though.

I don't understand what you are" taking." The buffs granted directly by base skill Rune Focus already stay on you for 8 seconds after leaving the circle. If they apply this "buff" to the morphs it would be a massive nerf to Channeled Focus and a slight buff to Restoring Focus.

Honestly speaking, the in-game tooltip for Channeled Focus right now says that you regen Magicka while within the rune focus. The fact that you continued to receive the regen while leaving the focus was likely unintended. I was actually suprised to know that this hasn't been the case and I'm sure other Templars were, too.

So..if they are meaning to allow the morphs to last 8 seconds after leaving the rune the same as the buffs to physical and magical resistances, I am very, very happy. Sure...I would love for this to last 10-20 seconds. But compared to the first patch notes that required us to stay in the focus for the morphs, I see this as a buff. It is a really, really cheap spell. And this at least, allows a bit more mobility.

I still don't understand. The first patch notes, if you read them, were nothing but a tooltip change/clarification. Nothing mechanical changed about Channeled Focus on the pts. Compared to how Channeled Focus works on live and on the pts, you are celebrating an effective massive nerf.

wayfarerx · February 2016

Nifty2g wrote: »

furthermore a change like this will just increase the stacking of more Templars spamming BoL in group which will just make the healing even worse. Especially if they all spam Major Mending

This ^

All this change is going to do, since it's not going to address the actual problems people have with BoL, is set us up for another nerf in the not-to-distant future.

Maldamus · February 2016

maxjapank
✭✭✭

timidobserver wrote: »

» show previous quotes

I don't understand what you are" taking." The buffs granted directly by base skill Rune Focus already stay on you for 8 seconds after leaving the circle. If they apply this "buff" to the morphs it would be a massive nerf to Channeled Focus and a slight buff to Restoring Focus.
Honestly speaking, the in-game tooltip for Channeled Focus right now says that you regen Magicka while within the rune focus. The fact that you continued to receive the regen while leaving the focus was likely unintended. I was actually suprised to know that this hasn't been the case and I'm sure other Templars were, too.

So..if they are meaning to allow the morphs to last 8 seconds after leaving the rune the same as the buffs to physical and magical resistances, I am very, very happy. Sure...I would love for this to last 10-20 seconds. But compared to the first patch notes that required us to stay in the focus for the morphs, I see this as a buff. It is a really, really cheap spell. And this at least, allows a bit more mobility.

Channelled Focus has always granted its magaicka regen for the full duration regardless of what Zos have stated in the tooltip or intended. Should this be fixed it will equate to another huge nerf to Templars, just because people have not had the wherewithal to accurately define just what is, exactly happening to their character, does not change in the slightest that we have always benefited from this, now facing another nerf of the colossal regen issues that we already deal with.

If nothing else if they aren't going to make this ability completely mobile for the love of Templars everywhere, do not ask them to change it from its present functioning, or reap the woes that will follow.

Dread_Guy · February 2016

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We’ve been watching a lot of livestreams, and Templars appear to still be very useful using this ability in conjunction with others. This includes using Focused Healing which now grants you the Major Mending buff, or Healing Ritual which has a decreased cast time.

umm...does anyone else feel like this isn't true? I mean, there aren't that many Templar streamers as it is and I'm 99.99% sure that none of them actually use healing ritual for may reasons stated before.

Can we please stop having Healing Ritual shoved down our throats...

SirDopey · February 2016

maxjapank wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

SirDopey wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hello everyone!

[*] Templars: We’ve been reading your feedback across the forums. We understand your frustration, and do appreciate you taking the time to let us know about your pain points. We have some additional changes going in for you in the next patch including increasing the duration of the damage reduction from Empowering Sweep, increasing the bonus to the initial hit from Crescent Sweep, and adjusting the buffs from Rune Focus to stay on you for 8 seconds after leaving the rune.
[/list]

Okay! I don't care much for empowering sweep, but if they're true to their word and ALL buffs stay on Rune Focus for the 8 seconds, I will stomach the other nerfs.....

I'LL TAKE IT!!!

Edit: If this is the best they will give us I will take it. Would still prefer a 20 second armor buff though.

I don't understand what you are" taking." The buffs granted directly by base skill Rune Focus already stay on you for 8 seconds after leaving the circle. If they apply this "buff" to the morphs it would be a massive nerf to Channeled Focus and a slight buff to Restoring Focus.

Honestly speaking, the in-game tooltip for Channeled Focus right now says that you regen Magicka while within the rune focus. The fact that you continued to receive the regen while leaving the focus was likely unintended. I was actually suprised to know that this hasn't been the case and I'm sure other Templars were, too.

So..if they are meaning to allow the morphs to last 8 seconds after leaving the rune the same as the buffs to physical and magical resistances, I am very, very happy. Sure...I would love for this to last 10-20 seconds. But compared to the first patch notes that required us to stay in the focus for the morphs, I see this as a buff. It is a really, really cheap spell. And this at least, allows a bit more mobility.

Yeah, for me its all about major mending and how its replaced focused healing - I know the magic regen out of the rune was always unintended but that's never been my beef. Because of this change, jabs "had to be nerfed to compensate for major mending", which makes self sustain a lot harder in events like vMA. The 8 seconds is still going to be a drain but it can be worked into our rotations without draining too much magic to ensure our healing to damage ratio stays much the same. That, that I can deal with.....

GhostwalkerLD · February 2016

Dread_Knight_N7 wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We’ve been watching a lot of livestreams, and Templars appear to still be very useful using this ability in conjunction with others. This includes using Focused Healing which now grants you the Major Mending buff, or Healing Ritual which has a decreased cast time.

umm...does anyone else feel like this isn't true? I mean, there aren't that many Templar streamers as it is and I'm 99.99% sure that none of them actually use healing ritual for may reasons stated before.

Can we please stop having Healing Ritual shoved down our throats...

Not one templar player I know, including obviously myself, uses healing ritual. Not ONE. At all. Gina, please provide links to these 'streams' you're watching that shows ANYONE using healing ritual, let alone being "very useful." Not to mention you claiming we're "still very useful" after these nerfs, yet again makes me wonder why these nerfs (and all the others over the past two years) were heaped on the templar class. "Too useful" you mean?

dodgehopper_ESO · February 2016

BalticBlues wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

For anyone who missed it there is some news here:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/246537/gameplay-updates-and-q-a-with-eric-wrobel
They aren't changing BoL back, in any way shape or form. Not budging.

They even had the nerves to say they watched life streams and BOL was too powerful.

ZOS devs, for gods sake, please play your own game instead of watching streams.
There are no life streams where people play vet dungeons in PUGs.

Today's vet pledge is City of Ash.
This is a typical dungeon where PUGs will die without a working BOL.
ZOS, please take your controllers and start a PUG for vCoA.
Once you will have people in your group who are not V16,
please tell us what you honestly think from first hand experience.

ZOS, be so fair and give us at least the option to change classes now.
Enough is enough. I loved and played my Templar since release, collected all skyshards, lore books, made each and every quest and spent months in Alliance Wars to get the skills. With each patch, it sucks more to play this class. Probably because nobody at ZOS plays it anymore, they prefer watching streams... I play this class, and I simply cannot bear the cripplings anymore. My baby Sorc plays like a charm compared to my crippled Templar. Please do not demand that I have to spend months again in skyshards, lore books, quests and Alliance Wars again. I want to have fun in the game again, not frustration.

Help us crippled Templars at least for one time in all these years and allow a class change now.
THANK YOU.

This is the dilemma many of us face isn't it. Quite a few of us came to the game, wanting to play the heavy armor wearing 2hander wielding Templar. What the game systems, gameplay and design suggest over time however is something completely different. It is hard for us to take the class seriously when it feels like ZoS doesn't particularly take the class seriously. The only silver lining to all of this, and my one big hope, is that by expanding the Healer role into the other classes, we might also start to see better playability for Templar skills. This is what I'm hanging on to, because I like many of you I dream of a day that it makes sense to play the armored knight in this game in Cyrodiil.

david.haypreub18_ESO · February 2016

By 'useful' she obviously means 'useful to other classes'. As in servants or slaves.

They are not at all useful otherwise, especially not solo.

wayfarerx · February 2016

GhostwalkerLD wrote: »

Dread_Knight_N7 wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We’ve been watching a lot of livestreams, and Templars appear to still be very useful using this ability in conjunction with others. This includes using Focused Healing which now grants you the Major Mending buff, or Healing Ritual which has a decreased cast time.

umm...does anyone else feel like this isn't true? I mean, there aren't that many Templar streamers as it is and I'm 99.99% sure that none of them actually use healing ritual for may reasons stated before.

Can we please stop having Healing Ritual shoved down our throats...

Not one templar player I know, including obviously myself, uses healing ritual. Not ONE. At all. Gina, please provide links to these 'streams' you're watching that shows ANYONE using healing ritual, let alone being "very useful." Not to mention you claiming we're "still very useful" after these nerfs, yet again makes me wonder why these nerfs (and all the others over the past two years) were heaped on the templar class. "Too useful" you mean?

Not only do I not know any templars that use this skill, I'm pretty sure I've never even seen it cast outside the first few times I tried it right after launch. I assumed all templars tried this skill out when they first unlocked it, thought to themselves "Ewww, a heal with a cast time? No thanks," and promptly moved on to using any other heal in the game since they are basically all superior.

Nifty2g · February 2016

Dread_Knight_N7 wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We’ve been watching a lot of livestreams, and Templars appear to still be very useful using this ability in conjunction with others. This includes using Focused Healing which now grants you the Major Mending buff, or Healing Ritual which has a decreased cast time.

umm...does anyone else feel like this isn't true? I mean, there aren't that many Templar streamers as it is and I'm 99.99% sure that none of them actually use healing ritual for may reasons stated before.

Can we please stop having Healing Ritual shoved down our throats...

I personally think healing ritual is amazing

i realized after i confused this skill with purify but i still like my comment so im not removing it lol

Dread_Guy · February 2016

Nifty2g wrote: »

Dread_Knight_N7 wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We’ve been watching a lot of livestreams, and Templars appear to still be very useful using this ability in conjunction with others. This includes using Focused Healing which now grants you the Major Mending buff, or Healing Ritual which has a decreased cast time.

umm...does anyone else feel like this isn't true? I mean, there aren't that many Templar streamers as it is and I'm 99.99% sure that none of them actually use healing ritual for may reasons stated before.

Can we please stop having Healing Ritual shoved down our throats...

I personally think healing ritual is amazing

i realized after i confused this skill with purify but i still like my comment so im not removing it lol

maxjapank · February 2016

timidobserver wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

SirDopey wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hello everyone!

[*] Templars: We’ve been reading your feedback across the forums. We understand your frustration, and do appreciate you taking the time to let us know about your pain points. We have some additional changes going in for you in the next patch including increasing the duration of the damage reduction from Empowering Sweep, increasing the bonus to the initial hit from Crescent Sweep, and adjusting the buffs from Rune Focus to stay on you for 8 seconds after leaving the rune.
[/list]

Okay! I don't care much for empowering sweep, but if they're true to their word and ALL buffs stay on Rune Focus for the 8 seconds, I will stomach the other nerfs.....

I'LL TAKE IT!!!

Edit: If this is the best they will give us I will take it. Would still prefer a 20 second armor buff though.

I don't understand what you are" taking." The buffs granted directly by base skill Rune Focus already stay on you for 8 seconds after leaving the circle. If they apply this "buff" to the morphs it would be a massive nerf to Channeled Focus and a slight buff to Restoring Focus.

Honestly speaking, the in-game tooltip for Channeled Focus right now says that you regen Magicka while within the rune focus. The fact that you continued to receive the regen while leaving the focus was likely unintended. I was actually suprised to know that this hasn't been the case and I'm sure other Templars were, too.

So..if they are meaning to allow the morphs to last 8 seconds after leaving the rune the same as the buffs to physical and magical resistances, I am very, very happy. Sure...I would love for this to last 10-20 seconds. But compared to the first patch notes that required us to stay in the focus for the morphs, I see this as a buff. It is a really, really cheap spell. And this at least, allows a bit more mobility.

I still don't understand. The first patch notes, if you read them, were nothing but a tooltip change/clarification. Nothing mechanical changed about Channeled Focus on the pts. Compared to how Channeled Focus works on live and on the pts, you are celebrating an effective massive nerf.

I'm not sure why you don't undersand. Regen Magicka while within the rune focus means you only regen Magicka while within it, not outside it. That's what the tooltip says now. So I and every other unknowing Templar have been standing inside our foucus to regen Magicka. And we have been continually placing these down whenever we moved to a new spot.

I mean..I sorta feel stupid not knowing that I could just cast the spell and just happily run away...and get the Magicka regen ticking. Seems that I have been benefiting from it without knowing it. But I do use Rune Focus in pvp for the physical and magical resistance. And I know to run back over it after 8 seconds to pick up the buff again. And when I can't, I recast it in my new location. I would happily take a longer buff, though.

How it works on the pts and how it has worked until now is not what the Tooltip says. So I can see where many Templars see this as a nerf. But I don't think this is or was intended. So I see it as a buff. And I'm almost tempted to pick up the other Morph for group play. Gonna be a hard choice to make.

SirDopey · February 2016

wayfarerx wrote: »

GhostwalkerLD wrote: »

Dread_Knight_N7 wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We’ve been watching a lot of livestreams, and Templars appear to still be very useful using this ability in conjunction with others. This includes using Focused Healing which now grants you the Major Mending buff, or Healing Ritual which has a decreased cast time.

umm...does anyone else feel like this isn't true? I mean, there aren't that many Templar streamers as it is and I'm 99.99% sure that none of them actually use healing ritual for may reasons stated before.

Can we please stop having Healing Ritual shoved down our throats...

Not one templar player I know, including obviously myself, uses healing ritual. Not ONE. At all. Gina, please provide links to these 'streams' you're watching that shows ANYONE using healing ritual, let alone being "very useful." Not to mention you claiming we're "still very useful" after these nerfs, yet again makes me wonder why these nerfs (and all the others over the past two years) were heaped on the templar class. "Too useful" you mean?

Not only do I not know any templars that use this skill, I'm pretty sure I've never even seen it cast outside the first few times I tried it right after launch. I assumed all templars tried this skill out when they first unlocked it, thought to themselves "Ewww, a heal with a cast time? No thanks," and promptly moved on to using any other heal in the game since they are basically all superior.

Well, to be fair she is talking about watching the streams of people using it on PTS, which I haven't seen any of, so maybe the skill is useful now (mostly because BoL isn't)...

acw37162 · February 2016

This is tiresome I log and read four posts and get discouraged again.

I haven't watched one live stream where anyone used healing ritual for any purpose other than to test it and promptly take it off their bar.

Major mending buff;

For the thousandth time, gaining major mending on Templar will primarily be inside of rune focus or morphs or cleansing ritual or morph which confines us from a small circle to a medium sized circle in a game where mobility rules, look at the top two classes right now Sorc and NB they both have mobility in common.

Dragon knights have had major through earthen heart abilities for a bit now and you know what the freakin difference is, they primarily attain it through their shield with is a self buff attached to them not rooting them in a 2 X 3 circle or a slightly bigger circle.

Look I get it, major mending is huge buff that is implemented in a way that it's actually an ok buff.

And, as far as live streams of people using rune focus and major mending to great effect.........

It's not a matter of using them to great effect, not using what few class defining abilities you have left that have any value.

Thank you for major mending and dark flare buff, can we please have them implemented in a better way.

And, if we are meant to be stationary with even less mobility then dragon knights who at least have an ulti with a little mobility, leap can we some class defining skills that help us be a better statue.

And, can we not be the only class that dies not have access to major sorcery or major brutality buffs in out own skill line.

And, can our class defining shield scale off our max stat?

I mean come on for Pete's sake, wait Pete just texted me and wants no association with Templars in ESO, good grief.

wayfarerx · February 2016

SirDopey wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

GhostwalkerLD wrote: »

Dread_Knight_N7 wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We’ve been watching a lot of livestreams, and Templars appear to still be very useful using this ability in conjunction with others. This includes using Focused Healing which now grants you the Major Mending buff, or Healing Ritual which has a decreased cast time.

umm...does anyone else feel like this isn't true? I mean, there aren't that many Templar streamers as it is and I'm 99.99% sure that none of them actually use healing ritual for may reasons stated before.

Can we please stop having Healing Ritual shoved down our throats...

Not one templar player I know, including obviously myself, uses healing ritual. Not ONE. At all. Gina, please provide links to these 'streams' you're watching that shows ANYONE using healing ritual, let alone being "very useful." Not to mention you claiming we're "still very useful" after these nerfs, yet again makes me wonder why these nerfs (and all the others over the past two years) were heaped on the templar class. "Too useful" you mean?

Not only do I not know any templars that use this skill, I'm pretty sure I've never even seen it cast outside the first few times I tried it right after launch. I assumed all templars tried this skill out when they first unlocked it, thought to themselves "Ewww, a heal with a cast time? No thanks," and promptly moved on to using any other heal in the game since they are basically all superior.

Well, to be fair she is talking about watching the streams of people using it on PTS, which I haven't seen any of, so maybe the skill is useful now (mostly because BoL isn't)...

In continuing to be fair, the people streaming on the PTS are probably not your garden variety player. They are much more likely to be experienced, dedicated and skilled players that could probably heal in trials using nothing but an empty box of tissues and some used chewing gum. Not exactly the first place I would go looking for what the majority of the templars out there consider viable.

technohic · February 2016

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

By 'useful' she obviously means 'useful to other classes'. As in servants or slaves.

They are not at all useful otherwise, especially not solo.

Razorback174 · February 2016

I hate to say it, but this may be the patch that finally does it in for me. For the record, I am not a hardcore PvPer. I usually avoid it like the plague. In terms of PvE gameplay, this BoL nerf is terrible. Like many others, I run dungeons with PUGs. Not everyone is running a super powerful build, and I've had folk struggle through some final bosses on gold pledges (Bogdan with any vampires especially). This nerf is going to make running dungeons with PUGs an absolute nightmare.

BoL was a great way to keep up with some heavy damage when the tank loses aggro for a moment, or a DPS puts their big toe in a red circle. Healing Ritual is cheaper, and heals for quite a bit more, and is an AoE. Sounds like a real winner right? NO! Not in this game! Standing still, or casting a heal with a channel time is a death sentence in these dungeons (I can't even imagine attempting it in PvP). I tried to use it in the fight against the Engine Guardian in DC, and the cast time alone was way too slow, nearly killing both DPS before it finally fired off. And the lack of mobility is another problem in and of itself. Enjoy being stuck in the middle of a casting animation while that huge red circle (that will kill you instantly) forms around your feet. Doesn't help that you have to be so close to the fight to cast it either (within 10m), especially in these highly dynamic fights where you have everyone on a different side of the room (vet BC or the PUG-filter Netch in DC for example). BoL was superior in every way, even with a greater cost. Instant, 1 big heal with 2 smaller heals, and a far greater range. I can make the same argument for the rune nerf too. That one makes absolutely no sense. Every other class has a way to get those buffs AND remain mobile (a REQUIREMENT IN EVERY VET DUNGEON). Why can everyone else move about freely while we're limited to something stationary the size of a Ritz cracker?!

I know it may surprise a lot of you, but not all of us are "professional streamers" with builds that wreck the game or PvPers who whine when we can't one-shot someone. Some of us are just people looking to have fun in the game, in dungeons, quests, etc. Isn't balance supposed to occur in small tweaks, not heavy-handed nerfs? I'm still bitter about the stamina regen and blocking nerf that got pushed through without so much as a second thought to PUGs when IC came about. I think I recall them saying "Oh, the content is still DOABLE." Tanking=nerfed and now templar healing=nerfed. Really explains why I see "V16 DPS lfg pledge" ad infinitum.

I'd like to give them a chance to get things balanced out, but I've been here since beta and most of what I've seen is nerf after nerf after nerf. And now my V16 templar healer main, who I've healed everything from level 13 Spindle to VDSA on, looks destined to become nothing more than a liability in ANY type of content. I guess it's appropriate this expansion is called Thieves Guild.

TG. Pretty much stands for "Templar Gutting"...

/end rant

nagarjunna · February 2016

MissBizz wrote: »

For anyone who missed it there is some news here:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/246537/gameplay-updates-and-q-a-with-eric-wrobel

Thanks for the link! Hmmm... Thoughts! These thoughts are from the viewpoint of average players out on Saturday night to have fun!

Breath of Life
No change to a badly implemented and knee-jerk reaction to a couple of professional streamers who complained!

If you're going to do a change make BoL line of sight. This would then make PvE life easier, mostly satisfy the PvPers, and probably annoy the streamers who don't quite get what they want.

It's a compromise!

You keep on about Healing Ritual as being really great. You should be ashamed of yourselves, you know full well that it kills any movement, that the animation cannot be block cancelled (as far as I am aware), it has a tiny radius (10m) centered on the caster and that it places a huge glowing target arrow on the person casting it.

As an example of that, I was in Cyrodiil and saw a red templar casting remembrance. He became my target and died very quickly. Any Templar casting Healing Ritual will be similarly targeted and killed and for the same reasons - free AP.

Sweep

So you have not fixed a poorly implemented Ultimate. It has real issues in being executed and has a good chance to not hit anyone. Why on earth buff something that does not work properly in the first place?

Rune Focus

You have reverted something you nerfed. That's not a buff, that's a correction!

And finally

So we should be grateful you've made some changes, and I suppose this is meant to placate us?

I love the touch here - it is so cynical as to be totally awesome:

We’ve been reading your feedback across the forums. We understand your frustration, and do appreciate you taking the time to let us know about your pain points.

timidobserver · February 2016

maxjapank wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

SirDopey wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hello everyone!

[*] Templars: We’ve been reading your feedback across the forums. We understand your frustration, and do appreciate you taking the time to let us know about your pain points. We have some additional changes going in for you in the next patch including increasing the duration of the damage reduction from Empowering Sweep, increasing the bonus to the initial hit from Crescent Sweep, and adjusting the buffs from Rune Focus to stay on you for 8 seconds after leaving the rune.
[/list]

Okay! I don't care much for empowering sweep, but if they're true to their word and ALL buffs stay on Rune Focus for the 8 seconds, I will stomach the other nerfs.....

I'LL TAKE IT!!!

Edit: If this is the best they will give us I will take it. Would still prefer a 20 second armor buff though.

I don't understand what you are" taking." The buffs granted directly by base skill Rune Focus already stay on you for 8 seconds after leaving the circle. If they apply this "buff" to the morphs it would be a massive nerf to Channeled Focus and a slight buff to Restoring Focus.

Honestly speaking, the in-game tooltip for Channeled Focus right now says that you regen Magicka while within the rune focus. The fact that you continued to receive the regen while leaving the focus was likely unintended. I was actually suprised to know that this hasn't been the case and I'm sure other Templars were, too.

So..if they are meaning to allow the morphs to last 8 seconds after leaving the rune the same as the buffs to physical and magical resistances, I am very, very happy. Sure...I would love for this to last 10-20 seconds. But compared to the first patch notes that required us to stay in the focus for the morphs, I see this as a buff. It is a really, really cheap spell. And this at least, allows a bit more mobility.

I still don't understand. The first patch notes, if you read them, were nothing but a tooltip change/clarification. Nothing mechanical changed about Channeled Focus on the pts. Compared to how Channeled Focus works on live and on the pts, you are celebrating an effective massive nerf.

I'm not sure why you don't undersand. Regen Magicka while within the rune focus means you only regen Magicka while within it, not outside it. That's what the tooltip says now. So I and every other unknowing Templar have been standing inside our foucus to regen Magicka. And we have been continually placing these down whenever we moved to a new spot.

I mean..I sorta feel stupid not knowing that I could just cast the spell and just happily run away...and get the Magicka regen ticking. Seems that I have been benefiting from it without knowing it. But I do use Rune Focus in pvp for the physical and magical resistance. And I know to run back over it after 8 seconds to pick up the buff again. And when I can't, I recast it in my new location. I would happily take a longer buff, though.

How it works on the pts and how it has worked until now is not what the Tooltip says. So I can see where many Templars see this as a nerf. But I don't think this is or was intended. So I see it as a buff. And I'm almost tempted to pick up the other Morph for group play. Gonna be a hard choice to make.

If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

If a skill gets made less effective and you didn't understand how effective it was, did it still get made less effective?

Clue: These two questions have the same answer.

GhostwalkerLD · February 2016

Razorback174 wrote: »

I hate to say it, but this may be the patch that finally does it in for me. For the record, I am not a hardcore PvPer. I usually avoid it like the plague. In terms of PvE gameplay, this BoL nerf is terrible. Like many others, I run dungeons with PUGs. Not everyone is running a super powerful build, and I've had folk struggle through some final bosses on gold pledges (Bogdan with any vampires especially). This nerf is going to make running dungeons with PUGs an absolute nightmare.

BoL was a great way to keep up with some heavy damage when the tank loses aggro for a moment, or a DPS puts their big toe in a red circle. Healing Ritual is cheaper, and heals for quite a bit more, and is an AoE. Sounds like a real winner right? NO! Not in this game! Standing still, or casting a heal with a channel time is a death sentence in these dungeons (I can't even imagine attempting it in PvP). I tried to use it in the fight against the Engine Guardian in DC, and the cast time alone was way too slow, nearly killing both DPS before it finally fired off. And the lack of mobility is another problem in and of itself. Enjoy being stuck in the middle of a casting animation while that huge red circle (that will kill you instantly) forms around your feet. Doesn't help that you have to be so close to the fight to cast it either (within 10m), especially in these highly dynamic fights where you have everyone on a different side of the room (vet BC or the PUG-filter Netch in DC for example). BoL was superior in every way, even with a greater cost. Instant, 1 big heal with 2 smaller heals, and a far greater range. I can make the same argument for the rune nerf too. That one makes absolutely no sense. Every other class has a way to get those buffs AND remain mobile (a REQUIREMENT IN EVERY VET DUNGEON). Why can everyone else move about freely while we're limited to something stationary the size of a Ritz cracker?!

I know it may surprise a lot of you, but not all of us are "professional streamers" with builds that wreck the game or PvPers who whine when we can't one-shot someone. Some of us are just people looking to have fun in the game, in dungeons, quests, etc. Isn't balance supposed to occur in small tweaks, not heavy-handed nerfs? I'm still bitter about the stamina regen and blocking nerf that got pushed through without so much as a second thought to PUGs when IC came about. I think I recall them saying "Oh, the content is still DOABLE." Tanking=nerfed and now templar healing=nerfed. Really explains why I see "V16 DPS lfg pledge" ad infinitum.

I'd like to give them a chance to get things balanced out, but I've been here since beta and most of what I've seen is nerf after nerf after nerf. And now my V16 templar healer main, who I've healed everything from level 13 Spindle to VDSA on, looks destined to become nothing more than a liability in ANY type of content. I guess it's appropriate this expansion is called Thieves Guild.

TG. Pretty much stands for "Templar Gutting"...

/end rant

My feelings exactly. I was going to wait until TG release to make a decision, but those smarmy remarks from the devs about that stream just clinched it. Unsubbed until and if things change for the better.

PhantomSpaceCop · February 2016

Razorback174 wrote: »

...Some of us are just people looking to have fun in the game, in dungeons, quests, etc. Isn't balance supposed to occur in small tweaks, not heavy-handed nerfs? I'm still bitter about the stamina regen and blocking nerf that got pushed through without so much as a second thought to PUGs when IC came about. I think I recall them saying "Oh, the content is still DOABLE." Tanking=nerfed and now templar healing=nerfed. Really explains why I see "V16 DPS lfg pledge" ad infinitum.

I'd like to give them a chance to get things balanced out, but I've been here since beta and most of what I've seen is nerf after nerf after nerf. And now my V16 templar healer main, who I've healed everything from level 13 Spindle to VDSA on, looks destined to become nothing more than a liability in ANY type of content. I guess it's appropriate this expansion is called Thieves Guild.

TG. Pretty much stands for "Templar Gutting"...

/end rant

From the perspective of a wholly insignificant player but avid Templar fan, this whole thread, and following (to the best of my ability) the patch updates makes me vaguely nervous about getting to Vet levels honestly, lmao. All I read are people at those levels and beyond complaining about the Templar class and BoL and nerfs. Which makes it seem like the game gets....worse for this class SPECIFICALLY as we go up in level/skill? That's my takeaway.

For whatever it's worth, right now as a PvE and veeeery casual PvP player, I'm still having a great time playing the game. Heals and heal support is decent, punching is great, no one's yelled at me verbally yet, it's all fab. I tried out an NB toon because I heard so many awesome things about the class, and ended up deleting that build and going with another Templar, then a DK. The lack of a true heal checked me right out. I know there's a learning curve to be had with other classes, and whatever this says about the Templar class, they're the easiest to play (for me).

I will freely admit that I've only been following the issues on these Templar threads on this site for about a month 1/2, so I'm sure there are a lot of fine details I still don't have a grasp on. All I know is for now, regardless of the behind the scenes nerfing and such, I'm still loving how my Templars play and can't imagine playing any other class as efficiently (as I may think I do, lol). Plus a Templar always has a place in a fight, no matter what people who get super elitist about their classes say. An opinion, obvs.

That noted, the Templar class has the potential to be one of the most powerful classes in the game, and for whatever reason, the GMs are definitely holding out. Maybe there's some kind of stigma on the class based in ancient MMO dev lore that I have no idea about because this is only the second MMO I've ever gotten involved in? Who Knows™. Whatever the case, don't hold out, ZoS, it's okay to let the divine knights rule the world.

#NightbladesSuck (just kidding, some are alright)

maxjapank · February 2016

timidobserver wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

SirDopey wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hello everyone!

[*] Templars: We’ve been reading your feedback across the forums. We understand your frustration, and do appreciate you taking the time to let us know about your pain points. We have some additional changes going in for you in the next patch including increasing the duration of the damage reduction from Empowering Sweep, increasing the bonus to the initial hit from Crescent Sweep, and adjusting the buffs from Rune Focus to stay on you for 8 seconds after leaving the rune.
[/list]

Okay! I don't care much for empowering sweep, but if they're true to their word and ALL buffs stay on Rune Focus for the 8 seconds, I will stomach the other nerfs.....

I'LL TAKE IT!!!

Edit: If this is the best they will give us I will take it. Would still prefer a 20 second armor buff though.

I don't understand what you are" taking." The buffs granted directly by base skill Rune Focus already stay on you for 8 seconds after leaving the circle. If they apply this "buff" to the morphs it would be a massive nerf to Channeled Focus and a slight buff to Restoring Focus.

Honestly speaking, the in-game tooltip for Channeled Focus right now says that you regen Magicka while within the rune focus. The fact that you continued to receive the regen while leaving the focus was likely unintended. I was actually suprised to know that this hasn't been the case and I'm sure other Templars were, too.

So..if they are meaning to allow the morphs to last 8 seconds after leaving the rune the same as the buffs to physical and magical resistances, I am very, very happy. Sure...I would love for this to last 10-20 seconds. But compared to the first patch notes that required us to stay in the focus for the morphs, I see this as a buff. It is a really, really cheap spell. And this at least, allows a bit more mobility.

I still don't understand. The first patch notes, if you read them, were nothing but a tooltip change/clarification. Nothing mechanical changed about Channeled Focus on the pts. Compared to how Channeled Focus works on live and on the pts, you are celebrating an effective massive nerf.

I'm not sure why you don't undersand. Regen Magicka while within the rune focus means you only regen Magicka while within it, not outside it. That's what the tooltip says now. So I and every other unknowing Templar have been standing inside our foucus to regen Magicka. And we have been continually placing these down whenever we moved to a new spot.

I mean..I sorta feel stupid not knowing that I could just cast the spell and just happily run away...and get the Magicka regen ticking. Seems that I have been benefiting from it without knowing it. But I do use Rune Focus in pvp for the physical and magical resistance. And I know to run back over it after 8 seconds to pick up the buff again. And when I can't, I recast it in my new location. I would happily take a longer buff, though.

How it works on the pts and how it has worked until now is not what the Tooltip says. So I can see where many Templars see this as a nerf. But I don't think this is or was intended. So I see it as a buff. And I'm almost tempted to pick up the other Morph for group play. Gonna be a hard choice to make.

If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

If a skill gets made less effective and you didn't understand how effective it was, did it still get made less effective?

Clue: These two questions have the same answer.

What a dumb response. I had more respect for you. But here's one for you:

If a tooltip states that you can only receive the buff while within the rune, but you get the buff anyways while outside, then is it a) a bugged skill b) an exploit c) a hidden buff d) a tooltip written by someone who didn't get the memo e) let's focus on what other positive changes we can get for Templars rather than being dumb

Faulgor · February 2016

Well, I still hope these will not be the only changes we will get, but if they are, I'm very much inclined to retire my Stamplar.

Which is quite ironic considering the timing, as I made her mid 2014 as a Thief/Pirate type character and we are getting the content for that just now.

I'm in the lucky position to have enough other characters to chose from, but I know lots of people are not because they main Templars or only play one character. My VR16 Templar Healer will probably still be good enough to run PUG dungeons once in a while, but other than that, I'm really not inspired to continue playing him either.
Good thing I still have my VR16 Stamina Sorc, haha, hahahahaha :'D

Well, good thing about lackluster class skills is that it frees up a lot of skill points. Could always make another crafter!

timidobserver · February 2016

maxjapank wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

SirDopey wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hello everyone!

[*] Templars: We’ve been reading your feedback across the forums. We understand your frustration, and do appreciate you taking the time to let us know about your pain points. We have some additional changes going in for you in the next patch including increasing the duration of the damage reduction from Empowering Sweep, increasing the bonus to the initial hit from Crescent Sweep, and adjusting the buffs from Rune Focus to stay on you for 8 seconds after leaving the rune.
[/list]

Okay! I don't care much for empowering sweep, but if they're true to their word and ALL buffs stay on Rune Focus for the 8 seconds, I will stomach the other nerfs.....

I'LL TAKE IT!!!

Edit: If this is the best they will give us I will take it. Would still prefer a 20 second armor buff though.

I don't understand what you are" taking." The buffs granted directly by base skill Rune Focus already stay on you for 8 seconds after leaving the circle. If they apply this "buff" to the morphs it would be a massive nerf to Channeled Focus and a slight buff to Restoring Focus.

Honestly speaking, the in-game tooltip for Channeled Focus right now says that you regen Magicka while within the rune focus. The fact that you continued to receive the regen while leaving the focus was likely unintended. I was actually suprised to know that this hasn't been the case and I'm sure other Templars were, too.

So..if they are meaning to allow the morphs to last 8 seconds after leaving the rune the same as the buffs to physical and magical resistances, I am very, very happy. Sure...I would love for this to last 10-20 seconds. But compared to the first patch notes that required us to stay in the focus for the morphs, I see this as a buff. It is a really, really cheap spell. And this at least, allows a bit more mobility.

I still don't understand. The first patch notes, if you read them, were nothing but a tooltip change/clarification. Nothing mechanical changed about Channeled Focus on the pts. Compared to how Channeled Focus works on live and on the pts, you are celebrating an effective massive nerf.

I'm not sure why you don't undersand. Regen Magicka while within the rune focus means you only regen Magicka while within it, not outside it. That's what the tooltip says now. So I and every other unknowing Templar have been standing inside our foucus to regen Magicka. And we have been continually placing these down whenever we moved to a new spot.

I mean..I sorta feel stupid not knowing that I could just cast the spell and just happily run away...and get the Magicka regen ticking. Seems that I have been benefiting from it without knowing it. But I do use Rune Focus in pvp for the physical and magical resistance. And I know to run back over it after 8 seconds to pick up the buff again. And when I can't, I recast it in my new location. I would happily take a longer buff, though.

How it works on the pts and how it has worked until now is not what the Tooltip says. So I can see where many Templars see this as a nerf. But I don't think this is or was intended. So I see it as a buff. And I'm almost tempted to pick up the other Morph for group play. Gonna be a hard choice to make.

If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

If a skill gets made less effective and you didn't understand how effective it was, did it still get made less effective?

Clue: These two questions have the same answer.

What a dumb response. I had more respect for you. But here's one for you:

If a tooltip states that you can only receive the buff while within the rune, but you get the buff anyways while outside, then is it a) a bugged skill b) an exploit c) a hidden buff d) a tooltip written by someone who didn't get the memo e) let's focus on what other positive changes we can get for Templars rather than being dumb

Maybe ignorance is bliss?

It doesn't really matter how you classify it. The only thing that matters is that in response to complaints from the community about the skill, it is be buffed to be less effective than it currently is.

dodgehopper_ESO · February 2016

PhantomSpaceCop wrote: »

Razorback174 wrote: »

...Some of us are just people looking to have fun in the game, in dungeons, quests, etc. Isn't balance supposed to occur in small tweaks, not heavy-handed nerfs? I'm still bitter about the stamina regen and blocking nerf that got pushed through without so much as a second thought to PUGs when IC came about. I think I recall them saying "Oh, the content is still DOABLE." Tanking=nerfed and now templar healing=nerfed. Really explains why I see "V16 DPS lfg pledge" ad infinitum.

I'd like to give them a chance to get things balanced out, but I've been here since beta and most of what I've seen is nerf after nerf after nerf. And now my V16 templar healer main, who I've healed everything from level 13 Spindle to VDSA on, looks destined to become nothing more than a liability in ANY type of content. I guess it's appropriate this expansion is called Thieves Guild.

TG. Pretty much stands for "Templar Gutting"...

/end rant

From the perspective of a wholly insignificant player but avid Templar fan, this whole thread, and following (to the best of my ability) the patch updates makes me vaguely nervous about getting to Vet levels honestly, lmao. All I read are people at those levels and beyond complaining about the Templar class and BoL and nerfs. Which makes it seem like the game gets....worse for this class SPECIFICALLY as we go up in level/skill? That's my takeaway.

For whatever it's worth, right now as a PvE and veeeery casual PvP player, I'm still having a great time playing the game. Heals and heal support is decent, punching is great, no one's yelled at me verbally yet, it's all fab. I tried out an NB toon because I heard so many awesome things about the class, and ended up deleting that build and going with another Templar, then a DK. The lack of a true heal checked me right out. I know there's a learning curve to be had with other classes, and whatever this says about the Templar class, they're the easiest to play (for me).

I will freely admit that I've only been following the issues on these Templar threads on this site for about a month 1/2, so I'm sure there are a lot of fine details I still don't have a grasp on. All I know is for now, regardless of the behind the scenes nerfing and such, I'm still loving how my Templars play and can't imagine playing any other class as efficiently (as I may think I do, lol). Plus a Templar always has a place in a fight, no matter what people who get super elitist about their classes say. An opinion, obvs.

That noted, the Templar class has the potential to be one of the most powerful classes in the game, and for whatever reason, the GMs are definitely holding out. Maybe there's some kind of stigma on the class based in ancient MMO dev lore that I have no idea about because this is only the second MMO I've ever gotten involved in? Who Knows™. Whatever the case, don't hold out, ZoS, it's okay to let the divine knights rule the world. #NightbladesSuck (just kidding, some are alright)

Look at the very least, its a fun class to run the story content with, and you can still use it in dungeons and the like. Don't let us get you down. I actually believe that they'll eventually get around to fixing some of these core problems - they just have to.

TipsyDrow · February 2016

Make healing ritual an instant ranged 28m heal, reduce the heal 25%. Make rune focus and all it's morphs move with the caster and have a buff duration of 12 seconds. Give templars a heavy armor passive (for each piece of heavy armor equipped the tempar gets 1.5% stam/magica regen). Balanced warrior needs spell damaged attached to it as well. BOL should have had LOS attached to it not had the number of people it heals nerfed, that was shortsighted and lazy dev work.
There's two roles in MMO's you DO NOT make it a complete pain in the but to play. Heals and tanks. ZOS you've already made tanks such a pain to play there are few left. Watch what happens to the healer pop if these nerfs go trhough. After the healer population drops you will have very few tanks and very few healers playing the game. then ya know what happens? Pugs can't form groups. When casual pugs can't form groups and do dungeons you know what happens next? They unsub and play something else. Go ahead.....take the (you're right and the community is wrong stance). The SWTOR devs did that a few times. Guess what happened? backlash, huge backlash. They lost so many subs they had to revert tons of nerfs. So go ahead....be arrogant. But then understand when you lose your playerbase.

kewl · February 2016

Soris wrote: »

Radial Sweep 1 meter increase, total of 6 meter range is still so little for an ultimate. Certain melee skills have 6 to 9 meter range. This skill should have 9 meter range minimum!

I'd like to see the normalization of all AoE around one number 8 or 9 meters.

Joy_Division · February 2016

Some feedback on Healing Ritual.

In one sentence: it's a great skill when it works (30K heals!), but it cannot be counted on to work.

When I first started playing my Templar at launch, I did use the skill and was relatively satisfied with how it worked. Part of this was because I didn't really understand the game's mechanics, one of the more prominent templar streamers (yes, there used to be one) used it a lot and I just trusted his judgement, and - importantly - at launch from levels 14-40 or so, the skill actually was reliable. It worked because during those levels the damage players took tended to be moderate and constant, which is exactly the type of damage this skill is best suited to heal.

The main problem with this spell is the type of damage players take in veteran content is completely unsuited for this skill: unpredictable spike damage. This is one of the few skills in the game that a legitimate argument can be made that players are actually hurting their group by using. I was messing around with in Wrothgar and was reminded of why I used it so long ago: the healing it does is actually *very* good (I was getting 30K critical heals without any buffs whatsoever). OK, so for fun I tried to use it on a world boss Daily, the tree guy from Nature's Bounty.

There were 9 people in the group. I was casting this spell a lot and the thought that kept coming to my mind was that 1.5 seconds is a short time, but seemed like an absolute eternity when people started taking damage. As the boss got to lower health, the damage was so fast and high there was no way I could anticipate when it was coming so I just spammed this skill. Yet, 7 people just insta-died, leaving just me and one other person alive. They died waiting for that 30K heal. I immediately reverted back to standard templar operating procedure, breath of life to make sure the other guy lived long enough for all the people to rez so a group of 9 didn't wipe to a World Boss. One second (without even considering reaction time and latency) is too long to wait for a heal. It's that simple.

Something else to consider: I was running some numbers and with the upcoming mending changes, and I think a templar spamming Healing Springs will provide more raw healing over time than Healing Ritual (and far more if the templars uses the Illustrious Healing morph instead). And the healing that comes from Springs is far more versatile because:

It can be cast while blocking
It cannot be interrupted
The healing is constant
No overhealing wastage that comes with Healing Ritual's 30K bursts
The templar can move while casting this
The templar can cast this where she is not standing
It's healing radius is larger

About the only advantage Healing Ritual has over Healing Springs is a big burst 1.5 seconds after the cast is finished (Healing Springs eventually overtakes multiple Healing Rituals because of the multiple cast times). If there was a less risky way to get that efficient burst, then spell's efficiency becomes very attractive and I think would merit serious consideration. One way to do this would be to make it such that the channel distributed the healing over the entire duration of the cast time. Such a mechanic would do much to mitigate the whole "waiting for a heal" problem. I would try it. Ironically,I think I'd actually want Live's longer cast in such an scenario as the 1 second global colldown in-between skills becomes the main limiting factor. (i.e. longer cast times means more time healing and less time waiting for global cooldowns).

Faulgor · February 2016

Joy_Division wrote: »

Some feedback on Healing Ritual.

In one sentence: it's a great skill when it works (30K heals!), but it cannot be counted on to work.

Yes, it heals a ton. But nobody needs 30k heals. Hardly anybody has even that much health, and if they do, healing them when they are at 5% health or whatever is way too risky. Anything above 20k is just gross overhealing. And in PvP, where the 30k heals would be reduced to 15k or even less, the 1.5 second cast time is even worse.
Which is why Templars don't need better magicka-based heals, IMO. Especially in PvE, there is more than enough healing available. The only thing Healing Ritual could be useful for is if it applied a really long duration HoT, or if it applied other buffs besides healing.

Cinbri · February 2016

First of all regarding Wrobel answer:
1. Quote about Rune Focus - i would be positive about it, but after everything we got i have feeling that this quote mean: "we will nerf Channeled Focus to proc mana return only inside rune and 8 sec after leaving rune". So i afraid it won't be buff of Restoring Focus, but nerf of Channeled Focus.

2. Quote about Empowering Sweep - i glad to hear that my idea of increasing duration of damage reduction is achieved Wrobel ears, however after more tests of pts with new sets i changed my mind - it don't need longer duration, but default 15% mitigation buff must be changed to Major Protection buff. Right now many non-vampire templars forced to use this ultimate for tanking and this is pure tanking ultimate, so increasing damage no needed for it, such templars don't have escape option so in many cases they using this ultimate to run away even when no enemies near. In the end it result in having only 15% mitigation buff; with some changes on pts, it will be easier to use ultimates, so in many cases we still will have just 15% mitigation that in pvp means nothing. So, again - change default 15% mitigation to 30% Major Protection.
Crescent Sweep - this ult cost only 26 more than Dawnbreaker but deal much less damage, so either initail hit should be buffed hard, or ult in addition should get some small changes like increase radius on 1m or short CC.
3. BoL nerf - most frustration from PvP templars regarding this nerf coming not coz nerf by itself but from fact that most effective healing build lost its effective but in return didn't get anything else to fill other roles. And since in qoute we heared nothing about AoE CC/roots/damage mitigation skills/increasing damage, i afraid we still won't get anything noticeble except small buffs. And thats is very bad since 100% healing buff of Inhale and Burnong Embers transformed outnumbered DK into Dk 1.0; and templars must get something as noticeble as this. And i afraid our pain point right now - is playing this class itself.