Spy Addon Group Damage

Jahoel

demian977 wrote: »

Hi,
how can i deactivate the spy-functions of http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1259-GroupDamage.html?
thanks for an anwser

No one is 'spying' on you, OP. What Group Damage does is put a number on something we can already see - how well you damage the enemy, and/or heal your allies. It allows for more accurate performance judgement. Judgement that is made with or without the add-on. If anything, that's good for inexperienced players. Experienced players can see exactly what's wrong, and address it. Rather than just kicking you to the curb because your DPS 'might' be low. I don't see your post complaining about the countless add-ons that provide others with the numerical values of your health pool? If anything, I would consider that 'spying' long before I would consider Group Damage to be a 'spy'. It doesn't tell anyone anything about your character. Only how much damage you did in a fight that everyone was watching anyway, when you were expected to contribute to your team.

No one worth playing with is trying to call you bad when you're a good player, @Zorrashi, @anitajoneb17_ESO, @maxjapank (and anyone who I failed to name, apologies). 90% of this (or in my 10+ years of experience, ANY MMO) community doesn't care about the exact DPS of some random pugging for pledges. They either don't pug it, or they pug it knowing that the results may not be optimal. The other 10%? Ok, they might kick you for some awkward, arbitrary reason. But let's face it. Those idiots are going to do that regardless of the add-ons they do or do not have. If you really are running into these guys as often as you let on, those are some wild odds. I'm not saying that you are lying. I am saying that perhaps you are exaggerating. No one worth playing with (and your argument IS to enjoy the game with good people) is trying to exclude you from content that you are capable of successfully completing. Period. The add-on is not going to turn good people into MMO-elitist zombies. Good people are simply good people. Good people exist in every MMO that I've played. And they've almost all had some type of group damage parsing available.

So take your meds, learn to play, and/or offer your groups with the truth (whichever is your problem) before you expect your 'privacy' (which is not actually being violated in any way, mind you - this add on is displaying numbers for information that is already available in the game; and is beyond common place in the genre) to be respected. It comes off as incredibly naive, and selfish.

No one can make you run the add-on, no one can make you run in a group with the add-on, and no one can make you accept help. Get over yourselves. This is not a personal attack and I don't care how good or bad you are at the game. This is about the add-on. Which I fully support.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Function wrote: »

When you join a group Ask if they run this addon, when they say yes you can opt out.

And if they say no and are lying ? (LOL, are you truly that naive ?)


.

And if they say 15-20k and are lying?
It goes both ways, man.

Dymence wrote: »

Just wanted to jump in here and say this addon is rubbish.

The API is still closed and the numbers displayed by this addon are more often than not extremely incorrect.

Use at own risk...

Shockingly correct for me, actually. See damage done, % of damage done - not just your DPS (which is admittedly off based on combat time calculations) . Run another add-on for personal DPS parsing. Run Group Damage to see how well your group is performing comparatively. If you have ONE (or even a dozen) parses with a million point variable, that is surprising and I'm glad you shared, but more than excusable given the hundreds (if not thousands) of accurate parses I've already seen. So I'll take the 'risk'

@coolmodi - Thank you so much for your work on this add-on. Some of us really appreciate having at least some access to industry-standard information about our TEAMMATES performance. Easily top 5 most helpful add-ons in ESO right now in my opinion. API support for this type of information should absolutely be encouraged and expanded.

Vezuls

I'm on console, but I've seen this add on. It's absolutely fantastic and ZoS should implement this to consoles since we aren't getting FTC.

It's not about being elitist, it's about helping everyone improve. People will find ways to find weak links anyway. For example, most console guilds rely on Bloodspawn DPS tests. And we don't use it to name and shame, we use it to find weak links and IMPROVE them. This is exactly what Group Damage Provides.

When you're in a top raid guild and trying to compete for scores, you NEED to know who is not pulling the damage that should be pulled and why. Information is power. This game is supposed to allow us to play how we want to play, but it doesn't. This game is catered to the babies who refuse to get good, because it's too much work.

I say, put in an opt out feature, because those we don't want parses to be seen are those who don't need to be in an end game raiding guild. Everyone in a guild that would make use of this add on understand some very important concepts:
1. There is always room to improve
2. Everyone has bad days - meaning, some days your best dps can have an awful parse. Knowing this will allow him to minimize these battles.
3. Everyone can be good at this game with the desire to learn and drive to improve.

This is just observations from a console player with no damage numbers, yet we still find ways to improve our players.

TL;DR
Group Damage needs to be implemented into the UI of ESO, but allow an opt out feature, because anyone in an end game raiding guild will be opted in so they can continuously improve and be better than they previously were.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Mythk wrote: »

A doctor doesn't run an MRI scan on someone, see a problem in their patient, and then proceed to tell them that everything is fine.

Mythk wrote: »

their pathetic cancerous [snip] through content.

Let's hope you're NOT a doctor...

Jahoel wrote: »

Good people are simply good people. Good people exist in every MMO that I've played.

ROFLMAO.
Well, rather sadly in the case of @Mythk , using tragic sicknesses in such a context as insults for people you simply disagree with says a lot about you not being good people, unlike @Jahoel likes to believe. @Jahoel you're pretty much in the same boat with your "take your meds".
Could quote more of your nauseous talk but what's the point ? There's no point in discussing with people who are not willing to understand, not even try.

The only think I tend to believe is that @coolmodi wrote his add-on probably (not sure, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt) with good intentions. You should have given it a little more thought. It happens.

ZOS has made a decision already and made it public, so just let's be happy about that.

See you on other threads ;-)

.

hedna123b14_ESO

NateAssassin wrote: »

robkrush wrote: »

Get over it. I can see you sorcs hard casting crystal frags in the back. Its obvious your dps is low low low. Now we can see just how low it really is. Lol

But what if my fingers hurt and I just want to press 1 button?

Lol then roll a templar

asneakybanana

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Mythk wrote: »

A doctor doesn't run an MRI scan on someone, see a problem in their patient, and then proceed to tell them that everything is fine.

Mythk wrote: »

their pathetic cancerous [snip] through content.

Let's hope you're NOT a doctor...

Jahoel wrote: »

Good people are simply good people. Good people exist in every MMO that I've played.

ROFLMAO.
Well, rather sadly in the case of @Mythk , using tragic sicknesses in such a context as insults for people you simply disagree with says a lot about you not being good people, unlike @Jahoel likes to believe. @Jahoel you're pretty much in the same boat with your "take your meds".
Could quote more of your nauseous talk but what's the point ? There's no point in discussing with people who are not willing to understand, not even try.

The only think I tend to believe is that @coolmodi wrote his add-on probably (not sure, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt) with good intentions. You should have given it a little more thought. It happens.

ZOS has made a decision already and made it public, so just let's be happy about that.

See you on other threads ;-)

.

They actually haven't made any decision if you properly read the post that chip made. All he says is that it wasn't originally intended and they have been discussing it internally and to be wary for the time being that it may be patched. Why are you putting words into the mouth of a dev? Are you really that desperate to get this addon removed? As I said earlier, the consent should not be required if it's for the good of the group just like consent isn't required when a security camera records footage of for the good of others.

tinythinker

Ah well, some people will be obnoxious in threads like this, whatever side they chose to defend or complain about, and they will act the same in a group.

As for the topic at hand, I personally don't have the gear to do great numbers on any of my characters and I am limited in my ability to get better gear. You don't have to understand why some people have such difficulties, simply accept that just because it's something readily attainable for you doesn't make it so for others. I rarely do group instances anymore unless they are scaled down a bit and when I do it is with people who know I am sometimes going to struggle to be as effective as they are. They won't be tracking my numbers in see if I am wasting their time.

So...

If you are worried about people tracking your contribution and mocking you/kicking you for being too weak, join a friendly no pressure guild that does group PvE and who is willing to help you get through content and to offer advice or crafting if you want it. Depending on which one you join they may expect improvement over time but if so they will likely help you gear up and give helpful advice on your skill bars and rotations. I am taking my time looking for the latter type of guild for PvE, but until then I just enjoy the game as I am able to play it.

If you only want people with the right gear and numbers, say so in the group advert or run with member from an experienced guild of like-minded and similarly equipped players. Don't take pugs, don't join pugs. If someone types in /zone that they only want "good" players who "know the dungeon/trial", I appreciate that as it saves us all the hassle of me being invited to their group. Besides, if people want to use add-ons like this to kick people for not being willing or able to hit preferred target numbers, they were probably already kicking people without the add-on because it was clear that the mobs or boss wasn't dropping fast enough.

anitajoneb17_ESO

asneakybanana wrote: »

They actually haven't made any decision if you properly read the post that chip made. All he says is that it wasn't originally intended and they have been discussing it internally and to be wary for the time being that it may be patched. Why are you putting words into the mouth of a dev?

LoL :-)

Xjcon

Still fighting that fight I see. Someone should make a poll to show how many people are against this. I see a small handful of people here against it for a silly reason.

Joining a group should be consent to being judged based on your performance. And this particular addon allows for the sort of info needed to see the groups performance.

code65536

Philosophically, I'm all for open information and transparency, and I think that this addon is great.

The people who will use this information abusively will almost certainly be acting abusively in other ways already. I don't understand why so many of you can be so cynical that you are convinced that information can turn a good person into a jerk. The people who are jerks are people who were already jerks without this information.

A lot of this is stuff that you can already roughly eyeball; all that this addon does is let you see it more clearly. You can still spot a bad DPS or a very good DPS without this addon--all it does it quantify it.

And I like seeing other people's damage numbers for a variety of reasons. Am I pulling my own weight? Is there someone playing my class who is doing substantially more damage than me in the exact same fights? Is the person who's bragging about his DPS actually doing the kind of DPS he claims?

Zinaroth

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

NateAssassin wrote: »

robkrush wrote: »

Get over it. I can see you sorcs hard casting crystal frags in the back. Its obvious your dps is low low low. Now we can see just how low it really is. Lol

But what if my fingers hurt and I just want to press 1 button?

Lol then roll a templar

That's the first step to being bottom of the DPS meter for sure.

LadyNalcarya

Btw, from what I understand this addon sometimes shows wrong dps numbers... But what about percentage? Does it show accurate numbers?

Shunravi

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Btw, from what I understand this addon sometimes shows wrong dps numbers... But what about percentage? Does it show accurate numbers?

Dps is off because of timers. but the percentage is good.

maxjapank

I'll say it once again. All some of us are asking for is for this addon to work the same way that FTC does. You have the option to share information with other group members who have also selected that option. You can please those who want to share data and you can please those who don't. Honest to god, why would you change the way it's been until now?

LadyNalcarya

Shunravi wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Btw, from what I understand this addon sometimes shows wrong dps numbers... But what about percentage? Does it show accurate numbers?

Dps is off because of timers. but the percentage is good.

Nice. Thanks for the answer!

asneakybanana

maxjapank wrote: »

I'll say it once again. All some of us are asking for is for this addon to work the same way that FTC does. You have the option to share information with other group members who have also selected that option. You can please those who want to share data and you can please those who don't. Honest to god, why would you change the way it's been until now?

Because it's not up to the addon developer to do that, zos would need to do that. The way the addon is setup it is pulling raw damage done statistics for each player from the server. So unless everyone in the game had the addon installed and it was able to pull a blacklist of names that weren't allowed to be shown from a server or something that it could pull an updated list from every time the ui was refreshed then it would need to be a built in option of the game to hide your player ID from other players and who knows how many bugs that would cause. I mean maybe we will have people not able to see others doing damage to each other at all until you personally heal or damage them again since he's not pulling dps provided by the game but actual x player but y target for z and then adding up all those guys to figure out total damage and dividing it by fight length to figure out your dps.

maxjapank

asneakybanana wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

I'll say it once again. All some of us are asking for is for this addon to work the same way that FTC does. You have the option to share information with other group members who have also selected that option. You can please those who want to share data and you can please those who don't. Honest to god, why would you change the way it's been until now?

Because it's not up to the addon developer to do that, zos would need to do that. The way the addon is setup it is pulling raw damage done statistics for each player from the server. So unless everyone in the game had the addon installed and it was able to pull a blacklist of names that weren't allowed to be shown from a server or something that it could pull an updated list from every time the ui was refreshed then it would need to be a built in option of the game to hide your player ID from other players and who knows how many bugs that would cause. I mean maybe we will have people not able to see others doing damage to each other at all until you personally heal or damage them again since he's not pulling dps provided by the game but actual x player but y target for z and then adding up all those guys to figure out total damage and dividing it by fight length to figure out your dps.

Thank you for the detailed explanation. But I'm asking for zos to revert the changes to how they were before. I'm really not attacking the addon author as much as I'm disagreeing with all players being at the mercy of this addon. Thankfully, ZOS has already said that allowing this information was an oversight and not intended. And we will have to wait to see what comes of their talks internally. It could be the case that reverting changes could be more trouble than it's worth for ZOS. We will just have to wait and see.

timidobserver

maxjapank wrote: »

I'll say it once again. All some of us are asking for is for this addon to work the same way that FTC does. You have the option to share information with other group members who have also selected that option. You can please those who want to share data and you can please those who don't. Honest to god, why would you change the way it's been until now?

Adding a toggle would be the most expensive option. ZOS is lazy. They aren't going to spend resources add the ability toggle it off and on. They are either going to leave it as it is now or block it entirely.

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Btw, from what I understand this addon sometimes shows wrong dps numbers... But what about percentage? Does it show accurate numbers?

This addon is concerned with GROUP DPS. FTC and other known DPS tracking addons are concerned with your DPS. This addon starts counting when anybody in your group attacks. FTC starts when you attack. Honestly, this addon is probably more accurate since it will tell you exactly what % of the damage you did to the target from the moment it started taking damage.

maxjapank

@timidobserver FTC does offer the option to share dps with group members. So not entirely accurate.

asneakybanana

maxjapank wrote: »

@timidobserver FTC does offer the option to share dps with group members. So not entirely accurate.

FTC does not work the same as this addon, its not nearly as accurate and mostly just bad. The way ftc shares dps is through map pings. Each coordinate corresponds to a specific dps and fight length so its easy to turn off because its a function of an add-on not a function of the game that's sharing the damage done. Where as I mentioned with this addon earlier it is not creating a method of sharing rather just displaying information shared by the game. So the only way for it to toggle on the addons end would be to have everyone download it so the people that didn't want to share dps could black list their names showing up or for zos to build the toggle into the game.

Lenikus

Is it potentially good? yes.
Is it potentially toxic? yes.
Severs a purpose? kind of.
*** it, why not.

timidobserver

maxjapank wrote: »

@timidobserver FTC does offer the option to share dps with group members. So not entirely accurate.

This addon provides a more accurate picture of your contribution to killing the enemy NPC. FTC provides a more accurate picture of your personal DPS.

So, if you wait until the boss is at 80% to attack and then do 20k dps from that point forward, FTC is going to show that you did 20k dps. This addon will penalize you for missing 20% of the dps done to the boss because it starts counting as soon as it detects damage done from any source. Both approaches are valid depending on goal of the addon.

Both addons provide valid/useful data, but it really doesn't matter. Being valid and useful is not a requirement for an Addon to exist.

Cuyler

maxjapank wrote: »

I'll say it once again. All some of us are asking for is for this addon to work the same way that FTC does. You have the option to share information with other group members who have also selected that option. You can please those who want to share data and you can please those who don't. Honest to god, why would you change the way it's been until now?

Jahoel wrote: »

I don't see your post complaining about the countless add-ons that provide others with the numerical values of your health pool?

@maxjapank ^this. Comparatively i assume you're ok with showing us how much HP you have? Which gives us insight into the same information that GroupDamage provides. Like if you show up as a dps but you have 25k HP. I know right away you're dps will be average at best. The same conclusions can be met.

@Jahoel makes a very good point. That a player can determine your average dps with or without the addon, and need I remind you, without your consent anyways. Yet you ppl think the addon is giving us some sort of new information. Its not. All it does it put an exact number on information we can already derive. For example I can guess you'd do and average of 14-15k dps from watching you parse. All the addon does is tell me you did 15,245 dps. We already know.

The only place where a crap dps can hide and get a carry without being able to determine his average dps is in a 12-man trial. In which most casual players admittedly already don't spend a lot of time. The raiding community that does frequently attend trials however, has embraced this addon and has been using it since it's creation successfully to improve many a casual player's game experience. In practice, right now, all the groups I've been in recently use this addon. It has made our groups more fun and better ever since. Thank you @coolmodi

It didn't increase hostility or resentment. That's an experience that you and the others sharing your ideology, who don't even use this addon, have brought to this thread. This addon has been out for some time. Tell me, have you even been in a group where someone said, "I saw you on groupdamage doing crap dps, L2P, gkick"? Or are you just here to fight for a rite to opt out of something most of us can see with our own eyes?

maxjapank

@Cuyler

I'm not against an addon that helps competitive players share data amongst themselves. I am against an addon that "spies" on someone, not giving them a choice to share their information. There is a reason why ZOS does not allow players to inspect each other's gear. And it's the same reason they haven't allowed addons such as this one.

It isn't my ideology. It's been the ideology of ESO since its beginning.

riverdragon72

i'll take some new inexperienced players and barely squeak through a quest than a group full of elitist epeen strokers who know how to screen cap their split second 40k dps and gush over TS about how nerdtacular they are. Even I the Altmer stamina (lol) ultra mediocre DK can post up some ridiculous DPS under the right circumstances.

Drakilian

Lol, DPS matters in Cyro? Come on now. Your specific numbers don't matter so much as how many people you have throwing out those numbers in the same location at the same time.

Also, it should be said that anything above 20k is top tier DPS at the moment.

Xexpo

ZOS said this addon is providing an unintended function. And anyone who has been playing this game for awhile already knew that.

Besides.. don't all the hardcore carebears already freely post their dps? What is all this arguing about?
The right to know if some pugs are pulling their weight in a pledge? Like what the actual **** ?
lmao

MikeB

The people against this addon are only against it because they think its "spying" and their brain conceives spying as a bad thing because society says it is. This addon is not spying on you, its not hiding in your curtains watching what buttons you push. 99% of people that PuG with this addon won't even mention they have it or your contributions to the group unless the run is going horrible. And the ones that will say something when its going bad will do so kindly in an attempt to complete the run and help the others with their rotations, builds, gear,etc..for their future runs. Not in an attempt to get them to conform to a cookie cutter build but better their group contribution with how they want to play. I play with someone that wants to heal in heavy armor, have I told her its less efficient to do so? No. I've assisted her with the build and she has no problems healing vWGT or vICP where she had lots of troubles healing anything before.

The other day, since no one i knew was on, I queued for vWGT and was grouped with 3 guys that had never done it before. I knew on the first trash pull we weren't even going to get close to killing The Adjudicator, and guess what, we didn't get her health down more than 10-15% because the dps couldn't kill the adds before the next spawn. Did I say anything to them out if place? Nope. I waited until we wiped 5x on The Adjudicator before kindly saying "I don't think we're going to be able to do this, the adds are coming to fast". Then guess what happened, they kindly agreed, asked if i wanted to do the reg daily but since I was AD and all 3 of them were DC we couldn't, so we said our goodbyes and disbanded with no ones feelings hurt.

Jerks will be jerks no matter if they have this addon or not, good things have never come from limiting knowledge.

Malmai

I love the Addon can see now people reaching 4-5K DPS.

Mojmir

Isn't scrolling damage text coming this year? Sorry to derail but curious

Kyoma

Wait, so now this is getting nerfed? Way to go, carebears, way to go.....