Spy Addon Group Damage

Bluepitbull13

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Function wrote: »

That is correct, the image he posted is the display only the person with the addon sees.. you cannot post it.

Of course you can.
- Screenshot and post link (takes 1 minute)
- Type numbers in chat (takes 10 seconds)

I admit that it is not as easy, quick and spammable than with a direct, keybound link in chat, but people can still do tons of nasty things with it.

Anyhow, the more people in favour of this addon post in this thread, the more apparent it is that they do not wish to help them : they want to point their finger at them, patronize them and filter them out.

.

Wait, you're saying people get viciously attack in the game over DPS parses?

SirDopey

Slayyer-AUS wrote: »

This add on shows me that im doing 90% on the damage in vet pledges lol. Group damage is the best add on.

Thats because you greedy with all that DPS and don't leave anything for anyone else to hit xD

anitajoneb17_ESO

Function wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Function wrote: »

That is correct, the image he posted is the display only the person with the addon sees.. you cannot post it.

Of course you can.
- Screenshot and post link (takes 1 minute)
- Type numbers in chat (takes 10 seconds)


I admit that it is not as easy, quick and spammable than with a direct, keybound link in chat, but people can still do tons of nasty things with it.

.

That is not what he was asking, he was asking if the addon had the functionality of posting it to chat.

I know. Still this "info" can be spread around for negative purposes just because it's there, even if the addon itself doesn't facilitate it.

.

Ra'Shtar

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Function wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Function wrote: »

That is correct, the image he posted is the display only the person with the addon sees.. you cannot post it.

Of course you can.
- Screenshot and post link (takes 1 minute)
- Type numbers in chat (takes 10 seconds)


I admit that it is not as easy, quick and spammable than with a direct, keybound link in chat, but people can still do tons of nasty things with it.

.

That is not what he was asking, he was asking if the addon had the functionality of posting it to chat.

I know. Still this "info" can be spread around for negative purposes just because it's there, even if the addon itself doesn't facilitate it.

.

From the look of your posts you must have been kicked out of a guild or something for having bad dps, i just tanked the vet pledge and the dps was so *** it took over an hour to finish the dungeon i run the addon yet i said nothing to the group because is a pug i don't expect 30k dps from pugs.

Bluepitbull13

I've been running the addon for 2 weeks and have been pugging pledges on 5 characters just about everyday that I have not been in groups where they viciously harass a player over low DPS. I don't know what kind of mass hysteria is going on about bad experiences, the game gives you tools to ignore and report such players.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Bluepitbull13 wrote: »

Wait, you're saying people get viciously attack in the game over DPS parses?

Sure. Over real or alleged "gaming performances" or lack thereof. In the game, in TeamSpeak, in forums, in videos...
Not everyone of course, not even a majority - by far, but enough to poison everyone's life a bit. Such an addon is just one more weapon they can use or misuse.

It's an MMO, it's a "society", with sub-groups (guilds) and their drama... people will be people, for better or worse. I believe such an add-on will encourage the worse aspect of it.
(Not withstanding that it is also "the internet"...)

What players really need to improve DPS-wise is training dummies.

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Bluepitbull13

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Bluepitbull13 wrote: »

Wait, you're saying people get viciously attack in the game over DPS parses?

Sure. Over real or alleged "gaming performances" or lack thereof. In the game, in TeamSpeak, in forums, in videos...
Not everyone of course, not even a majority - by far, but enough to poison everyone's life a bit. Such an addon is just one more weapon they can use or misuse.

It's an MMO, it's a "society", with sub-groups (guilds) and their drama... people will be people, for better or worse. I believe such an add-on will encourage the worse aspect of it.

.

but you couldn't say that it could possibly encourage the other perspective that if player B get's lower DPS and sees that player A is getting better DPS that the player would be interested in improving their build or damage output? I say this as I've done pledges where other players who are complete strangers to me and add me to ask questions about healing/dpsing.

Bluepitbull13

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

What players really need to improve DPS-wise is training dummies.

.

I agree and if or when they give us housing I would hope I could put a training dummy in either the backyard or living room, until then people question each other's gear and compare numbers.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Ra'Shtar wrote: »

From the look of your posts you must have been kicked out of a guild or something for having bad dps, i just tanked the vet pledge and the dps was so *** it took over an hour to finish the dungeon i run the addon yet i said nothing to the group because is a pug i don't expect 30k dps from pugs.

No, I haven't been kicked from anywhere and I have decent DPS.
I once was in a PUG that lacked DPS but we simply disbanded nicely instead of trying to find someone guilty (It was the Praxin fight in 1.6, it was very hard back in the days), and noone was hurt (I think).
No, what I'm telling here is the result of my experience as a guild master. In this position I have many, many people come and talk to me about their ingame experiences, inside or outside the guild. I also talk to quite a few other guild masters, and witness many things. Sometimes it gets quite ugly, unfortunately. And "ingame performance" is often used, misused, abused, interpreted, in order to judge and devaluate other people as persons, for reasons sometimes purely personal and not even related to the game. I fight constantly against it. I want my guild members to feel safe and to be safe in the human environment provided by the guild.

code65536

Ra'Shtar wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Function wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Function wrote: »

That is correct, the image he posted is the display only the person with the addon sees.. you cannot post it.

Of course you can.
- Screenshot and post link (takes 1 minute)
- Type numbers in chat (takes 10 seconds)


I admit that it is not as easy, quick and spammable than with a direct, keybound link in chat, but people can still do tons of nasty things with it.

.

That is not what he was asking, he was asking if the addon had the functionality of posting it to chat.

I know. Still this "info" can be spread around for negative purposes just because it's there, even if the addon itself doesn't facilitate it.

.

From the look of your posts you must have been kicked out of a guild or something for having bad dps, i just tanked the vet pledge and the dps was so *** it took over an hour to finish the dungeon i run the addon yet i said nothing to the group because is a pug i don't expect 30k dps from pugs.

Exactly. I run the addon, and I've been in PUGs where, as the tank, I do more damage than the two DPS combined. But I don't say anything unless it's an extreme situation--if we're stuck wiping and there are obvious problems that they can correct right then and there--but you don't need this addon to spot those kinds of scenarios.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Bluepitbull13 wrote: »

but you couldn't say that it could possibly encourage the other perspective that if player B get's lower DPS and sees that player A is getting better DPS that the player would be interested in improving their build or damage output? I say this as I've done pledges where other players who are complete strangers to me and add me to ask questions about healing/dpsing.

In theory, yes. In practice, it's going to be rather rare and based on a number of human factors like sympathy, admiration and trust.
I do it myself quite often, when I see a sorc with a playstyle identical to mine who does obviously more damage (you don't need an add-on for that, it's something you can see very easily on a character with the same class and role as you), I ask about stuff, gear, skill and rotation, to see if I can find some tip or trick.
I also don't mind asking the group what I am doing wrong if I die too often, die repeatedly to the same things or obviously suck at whatever. I am convinced that people don't need an addon or anyone to tell them that they suck : people know when they're doing bad or not their best !

But it's the total opposite of someone coming straight to you when you haven't asked for anything, telling you that you suck and that you need to follow their "advice"... that's totally destructive, and I believe that this addon will lead far more often to the ladder situation than to the former.

Your question would be best answered by someone in that position (with weaker DPS). But, unsurprisingly to me, ALL opinions here in favor of the addon come from people who declare themselves as having a good DPS and "able to help weaker players". Not the other way around.

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Ra'Shtar

The addon has been in the game for more than a week now, the only thread i see complaining about the addon is this one if no one has made another thread you can be sure the addon is not having a negative effect on the game but rather the opposite, people who are jerks will kick and miss treat low dps player no matter what it has happened before and it will keep happening this addon is not going to suddenly create a massive amount of jerks tough it did created a massive amount of whining from ultra casuals who get hurt by the wings of a butterfly.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Ra'Shtar wrote: »

The addon has been in the game for more than a week now, the only thread i see complaining about the addon is this one if no one has made another thread you can be sure the addon is not having a negative effect on the game but rather the opposite, people who are jerks will kick and miss treat low dps player no matter what it has happened before and it will keep happening this addon is not going to suddenly create a massive amount of jerks tough it did created a massive amount of whining from ultra casuals who get hurt by the wings of a butterfly.

One week is far too short to evaluate any impact in the game. I'd say it's only one week and there's already a thread about it, that proves that there's an issue.

And most of all... yet another supporter of this addon who speaks negatively of players who don't perform as well as they do. We can see a clear correlation here.

.

Function

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Ra'Shtar wrote: »

The addon has been in the game for more than a week now, the only thread i see complaining about the addon is this one if no one has made another thread you can be sure the addon is not having a negative effect on the game but rather the opposite, people who are jerks will kick and miss treat low dps player no matter what it has happened before and it will keep happening this addon is not going to suddenly create a massive amount of jerks tough it did created a massive amount of whining from ultra casuals who get hurt by the wings of a butterfly.

One week is far too short to evaluate any impact in the game. I'd say it's only one week and there's already a thread about it, that proves that there's an issue.

And most of all... yet another supporter of this addon who speaks negatively of players who don't perform as well as they do. We can see a clear correlation here.

.

Then why are you so gung *** over getting this add on removed? If not enough time has passed to be unsure of the impact why are you so adamantly against it?

anitajoneb17_ESO

Function wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Ra'Shtar wrote: »

The addon has been in the game for more than a week now, the only thread i see complaining about the addon is this one if no one has made another thread you can be sure the addon is not having a negative effect on the game but rather the opposite, people who are jerks will kick and miss treat low dps player no matter what it has happened before and it will keep happening this addon is not going to suddenly create a massive amount of jerks tough it did created a massive amount of whining from ultra casuals who get hurt by the wings of a butterfly.

One week is far too short to evaluate any impact in the game. I'd say it's only one week and there's already a thread about it, that proves that there's an issue.

And most of all... yet another supporter of this addon who speaks negatively of players who don't perform as well as they do. We can see a clear correlation here.

.

Then why are you so gung *** over getting this add on removed? If not enough time has passed to be unsure of the impact why are you so adamantly against it?

.. Haven't I explained enough already ... ?????

Some_Guy

I support this add-on completely. If I'm running trials, trying to get a good time/score and see that one player is MASSIVELY behind on dps, I'm going to start questioning it. If you're "worried" that people aren't going to want you in that group because of low dps, then you're probably the one dragging them down, and need to improve your build (and if you're going with the whole "play how you want", then you can do that, in someone else's group).
I like looking at the other dps in my group, because I see people running similar builds, and if their dps is lower, I'll try to help them, if it's higher, I'll ask them what they're doing differently so that I can improve my own dps. There are countless places online (if other players won't help you) where players have posted numerous viable builds, in an effort to help players. If you choose to play your own build and style, then don't get hurt feelings when you get kicked from the group because they don't want to carry you. Group events (trials, dungeons, etc) are a team effort, and people want to see if you're carrying your weight, or making them do all the work for you.
I say this especially from the angle of trials guilds. Complaining that you won't be able to run with the good guilds anymore because "now they can see your dps is low" is like being in a race, seeing the people who are beating you, and saying that they should be blinded, so they can't see how slow you are.
Long story short, if you're scared of an add-on that will show you as the weak link, don't be the weak link. If you're worried that people will harass you for your dps, learn how to use the mechanics ZOS has set in place to ignore or report people like that. Learn how to become someone who doesn't need to worry about an add-on like "spy damage reporting" add-ons. It is too easy. Don't know how? Google it.

maxjapank

code65536 wrote: »

Oh, and the addon

Ra'Shtar wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Function wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Function wrote: »

That is correct, the image he posted is the display only the person with the addon sees.. you cannot post it.

Of course you can.
- Screenshot and post link (takes 1 minute)
- Type numbers in chat (takes 10 seconds)


I admit that it is not as easy, quick and spammable than with a direct, keybound link in chat, but people can still do tons of nasty things with it.

.

That is not what he was asking, he was asking if the addon had the functionality of posting it to chat.

I know. Still this "info" can be spread around for negative purposes just because it's there, even if the addon itself doesn't facilitate it.

.

From the look of your posts you must have been kicked out of a guild or something for having bad dps, i just tanked the vet pledge and the dps was so *** it took over an hour to finish the dungeon i run the addon yet i said nothing to the group because is a pug i don't expect 30k dps from pugs.

Exactly. I run the addon, and I've been in PUGs where, as the tank, I do more damage than the two DPS combined. But I don't say anything unless it's an extreme situation--if we're stuck wiping and there are obvious problems that they can correct right then and there--but you don't need this addon to spot those kinds of scenarios.

I like your answer here better than the person you quoted. You sound like the type of person I enjoy running with. Willing to keep at it unless you keep wiping and you can see obvious problems, which this addon probably won't tell. Because in general, wipes are due to not knowing the mechanics rather than the dps.

These days in the Group Finder we encounter all sorts of people. Many of them are battle-leveled. Some of them don't wear set pieces yet, or haven't invested in enchants because they know they will replace stuff. It's hard to judge someone based on dps or heals alone.

NBrookus

I have mixed feelings about this addon. I can definitely picture people using and abusing it to be ****heads. But that is true for many things, and those people are going to find something else to be jerks about anyway.

I've been running it as a tool for my own improvement. And I've learned that despite the high DPS brag numbers that fly around online it is extremely situational. Bummed out I only did 6k on a fight? Wait, the other DPS only pulled 8k, and I know they have a solid build and skills... I've seen their FTC brag posts many times on good pulls. Suddenly 6k isn't great, but it doesn't look awful because I'm not comparing myself to an imagined 20-25k or more. Different fight; different expectations are needed.

And yes, it has revealed some awful PUG numbers. If you've got two PUG DPS, it can be hard to pinpoint which one, or both, is performing poorly. We adapted and took more time to help them out - without any naming or shaming - and they improved and learned something. They weren't lazy. Initially when they said they knew the dungeon, they were probably afraid to admit ignorance. They didn't get this fear from this addon existing, they got it from players who were jerks and have treated them poorly in the past. Too bad the No, Thank You addon can't remove the jerks.

Had a genuinely lazy player the other day. I didn't need an addon to notice him just standing there watching the rest of us fight.

Function

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Function wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Ra'Shtar wrote: »

The addon has been in the game for more than a week now, the only thread i see complaining about the addon is this one if no one has made another thread you can be sure the addon is not having a negative effect on the game but rather the opposite, people who are jerks will kick and miss treat low dps player no matter what it has happened before and it will keep happening this addon is not going to suddenly create a massive amount of jerks tough it did created a massive amount of whining from ultra casuals who get hurt by the wings of a butterfly.

One week is far too short to evaluate any impact in the game. I'd say it's only one week and there's already a thread about it, that proves that there's an issue.

And most of all... yet another supporter of this addon who speaks negatively of players who don't perform as well as they do. We can see a clear correlation here.

.

Then why are you so gung *** over getting this add on removed? If not enough time has passed to be unsure of the impact why are you so adamantly against it?

.. Haven't I explained enough already ... ?????

Nothing I have read is a good logical reason to have this addon removed.. you say revealing your damage numbers is a breach of privacy but there shouldn't be any privacy on group information. Its like saying an addon that shows the amount of health your group members have is a breach of privacy as well.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Function wrote: »

Nothing I have read is a good logical a reason I agree with.

Fixed it for you.

Health numbers is a result of build choices. DPS is a result of build choices too but mostly of performance.

People want to play, not to be judged by people that they have not elected to judge them. If you don't have enough sensitivity, experience of life or simple common sense to understand that, and that your comparison is totally fallacious, there's nothing more I can do.

But I assume that the key issue here is your lack of good-will to understand. You won't admit either, even though it transpires with every post, that you don't actually want this addon to help people, but to judge and filter them.

When you'll have done so, imposed your standards onto everyone and forced every single player in the game to run the same cookie cutter build as the next DPS, you'll complain that there's not enough diversity and blame ZOS.

.

Ra'Shtar

I wonder if you would like that your tank and your healer would be as bad as those Dps that you are defending are, not taunting and letting you die constantly over and over the same way they just want to get carried trough the dungeon with 3 k dps and then cry because now people can see they are nothing but a carry.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Ra'Shtar wrote: »

I wonder if you would like that your tank and your healer would be as bad as those Dps that you are defending are, not taunting and letting you die constantly over and over the same way they just want to get carried trough the dungeon with 3 k dps and then cry because now people can see they are nothing but a carry.

See ? Yet another assumption that "people are bad and need to be identified as such". That is what you want from this addon, nothing else.

In my guild we have good and less good tanks, good and less good healers. Guess what we do ? We don't take them apart to "reveal" to them that they are sooo baaaad.... Instead, we run with them. Again. And again. ANd again. And again.
And guess what ? They get better.
.

Ra'Shtar

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Ra'Shtar wrote: »

I wonder if you would like that your tank and your healer would be as bad as those Dps that you are defending are, not taunting and letting you die constantly over and over the same way they just want to get carried trough the dungeon with 3 k dps and then cry because now people can see they are nothing but a carry.

See ? Yet another assumption that "people are bad and need to be identified as such". That is what you want from this addon, nothing else.

In my guild we have good and less good tanks, good and less good healers. Guess what we do ? We don't take them apart to "reveal" to them that they are sooo baaaad.... Instead, we run with them. Again. And again. ANd again. And again.
And guess what ? They get better.
.

Why should i run again and again with a pug i just met, when you pug something like vWGT or vICP you expect something better than the average 9k dps. If your dps can't go above 5 k and still you don't want to do anything about it but being carried by the other members of the group i don't even want to be near a person like that so selfish that doesn't think about the well being of the party.

Zaenidd

That's it, this add on is just a tool as the basic UI in eso does not give enough informations imo

Remember this is just a tool that allows raid leads to see what (if smthing) is going wrong, this doesn't mean a kick from group but allows us to see and help people to be a little bit better and not penalize other members of the group

We need this kind of tools

anitajoneb17_ESO

Ra'Shtar wrote: »

Why should i run again and again with a pug i just met, when you pug something like vWGT or vICP you expect something better than the average 9k dps. If your dps can't go above 5 k and still you don't want to do anything about it but being carried by the other members of the group i don't even want to be near a person like that so selfish that doesn't think about the well being of the party.

Thanks for admitting that it is not about helping at all.

IMHO vICP and vWGT are not puggable : it's content for guilds where people are on TeamSpeak, know each other and learn over time to play with each other - taking their respective strengths and weaknesses into consideration.

This addon is not going to help you completing this kind of dungeon. Get a nice guild.

Zorrashi

Zaenidd wrote: »

That's it, this add on is just a tool as the basic UI in eso does not give enough informations imo

Remember this is just a tool that allows raid leads to see what (if smthing) is going wrong, this doesn't mean a kick from group but allows us to see and help people to be a little bit better and not penalize other members of the group

We need this kind of tools

A tool it is. No one is denying that or arguing against them using it to better themselves. But we are asking for the option to opt out of your measuring. You and your mates can still use it to improve yourselves and others if you wish, but at least get thier consent about it.

Ra'Shtar

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Ra'Shtar wrote: »

Why should i run again and again with a pug i just met, when you pug something like vWGT or vICP you expect something better than the average 9k dps. If your dps can't go above 5 k and still you don't want to do anything about it but being carried by the other members of the group i don't even want to be near a person like that so selfish that doesn't think about the well being of the party.

Thanks for admitting that it is not about helping at all.

IMHO vICP and vWGT are not puggable : it's content for guilds where people are on TeamSpeak, know each other and learn over time to play with each other - taking their respective strengths and weaknesses into consideration.

This addon is not going to help you completing this kind of dungeon. Get a nice guild.

Its not helping my nerves with people like you that's it.

Prizax

I totally love this addon, but there is something that most people can't see which is how this addon work, it is based from the player/user as the center coordinate and it has a range from there.

This will cause that in some cases where there are big areas (like cyrodiil) a group of people using this addon, makes that each person (an average good player) will always see himself at the top of the list and yes this is right/accurate from the each player view but not from a group view.

Between in PvE this addon works perfect as long as all member stay near each other within the range, which is what happens most of the times in normal groups.

Zorrashi

Function wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Function wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Ra'Shtar wrote: »

The addon has been in the game for more than a week now, the only thread i see complaining about the addon is this one if no one has made another thread you can be sure the addon is not having a negative effect on the game but rather the opposite, people who are jerks will kick and miss treat low dps player no matter what it has happened before and it will keep happening this addon is not going to suddenly create a massive amount of jerks tough it did created a massive amount of whining from ultra casuals who get hurt by the wings of a butterfly.

One week is far too short to evaluate any impact in the game. I'd say it's only one week and there's already a thread about it, that proves that there's an issue.

And most of all... yet another supporter of this addon who speaks negatively of players who don't perform as well as they do. We can see a clear correlation here.

.

Then why are you so gung *** over getting this add on removed? If not enough time has passed to be unsure of the impact why are you so adamantly against it?

.. Haven't I explained enough already ... ?????

Nothing I have read is a good logical reason to have this addon removed.. you say revealing your damage numbers is a breach of privacy but there shouldn't be any privacy on group information. Its like saying an addon that shows the amount of health your group members have is a breach of privacy as well.

That's only your standard/opinion, Function. When people join a group, it's 'rules' are decided upon the consensus of that group. They are not made by me and they certainly are not made by you.
If the group essentially wants to do their own independent thing, they have a right to do so. If you disagree, discuss it with them and see if you can come to a consensus.
If the group wants to min max their build, have the BiS gear, maximize their efficiency then that is also their right.
If the group is split on thief group's standards then ideally you would discuss your views to reach an agreement.

You saying joining a group is an instant forfeiture of privacy, non-scrutinized performance or anything else is nothing more than you projecting your views and values into others.

Do not misunderstand me though, having those views are totally ok. But if you want your group to go by them then you should find those who think as you do and are willing to abide by your standards instead of trying to forcefully project your standards onto others.

Vangy

Well after reading the numerous posts here, there are 2 opposing views.

1) group damage is private information. No one should be able to quantify or see it. It's mine and mine alone.

2) group damage is group information. Everyone in the group should be able to see it. It's a group after all.


From what I've read there's good and bad on both sides and as someone has already pointed out, group rules should be group consensus and not one persons own personal opinion. So here's what I propose;

If you are using this addon, when the person using this enters the group instance; for example I enter a vet pledge in a group of 4, it posts in group chat @Vangy is using group damage addon. And anyone else using this addon while zoning in will also have this post on group chat. This way, if you are the minority not using this addon and are uncomfortable that your private information is being shared, you may choose to leave group. If you are the minority using this addon your group can ask u to turn it off and ask you to re zone to make sure you have it turned off. If it's a 50-50 split, let's face it this group can reach a consensus. It is a group after all and cooperation and CHOICE should never be removed. It is hypocritical to say you either want or don't want this addon and disregard the other parties views. The choice should go both ways and making this addon force type into group chat should be no problem I think. Also this way we can see if the majority of the player base want or don't want this addon. If most people don't use it and you keep getting asked to turn it off, eventually you would not bother running this. However if you see that most people are using this addon then you should accept the possibility that most people feel that group damage should be shared among the group and isn't your personal information.

To put it shortly, regardless of what your personal opinion is, you are part of a group and the group (Not you nor me) should decide what is private or group information.