Spy Addon Group Damage

coolmodi

This game would be pure horror again as a casual like me if the only option is to leave as soon as the dmg is too low, especially when playing a healer. Now I can at least see what the problem is, if I feel like it I could even help some people.

If the addon gets pulled I'll just never play heal again, it's just too frustrating with all those lazy DDs out there, and my DD gets a mouse macro, I watch a movie and just aim in the genral direction of the fight. Still better than half the DDs I get grouped with I guess. The macro can at least spam light attacks...

And no way the poor *** will ever find out that I do nothing thanks to my personal sensitive information beeing private! HA!

anitajoneb17_ESO

Carry on, @coolmodi ! Each time, you're revealing more and more of your state of mind when writing this addon ! For everyone here to make up his mind.

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omfgitsbatman

If we remove this addon from the game I would also like removed from the game the following addons since they spy on me as well:

Master Merchant- This addon is dispicable and tells everybody what price I sell my goods for. This should be between me and my buyer. This addon also tells people how much money I have made on a certain guild store every period of time. This leads to Elitist Trade guilds kicking people out if they do not meet a minimum sales requirement. This is nobodies business but my own. They should not be able to display averages for items based on my information if I don't want them to. Please let me opt out of this.

FTC, LUI, Advanced U/I, and all other group/target frames addons- These Spy addons tell everybody my exact health numbers, how large of a shield I have on, They tell my enemies my class. This information should be mine and mine alone. I don't want to have to share this with the rest of the game.

Srendarr- This addon is one of the worst offenders as it lets other people tell whether or not I have a food buff applied, which mundus stone I am using, and it also tells them what debuffs I currently have on me. This is a horrendous invasion of my privacy! When I eat my food is my business!!!

Kill Counter- This addon is poisounous! People should not be aware of who they get the killing blows on. They should not have a detailed count of how often they have killed me and I have killed them. This should just be a guessing game and should not be tracked in hard data .

Wykkyd's Loot Manager (And all that perform a similar function) - This addon actually lets people see what loot I recieve!!! There is no clearer form of spying than this. Please remove this addon from the game. Other people have no right to see what I recieve. I should be able to opt out of this.

There are so many more addons that spy on people! Let's fight to remove all of them and not just this one!!! Come on People!!!

DschiPeunt

omfgitsbatman wrote: »

[...]
There are so many more addons that spy on people! Let's fight to remove all of them and not just this one!!! Come on People!!!

Why only stop with the add-ons? ZOS should make my character invisible to others, so they can't see what armor I am wearing and which skills I use. Otherwise they may judge me.
Also I would like boss health bars removed. It is not fair, that people can see, how much damage the boss takes. Now that I am thinking of it, they should just make every fight end after 1 minute with a suicide of the boss, because otherwise people could estimate my DPS based on the length of the fight.
Also I shall have invincible mode, because I like to stand in enemy AOEs, but the rest of the group has no right to judge me, because I take a lot of damage.

Everyone who dislikes my playstyle is an elitist and a bad person in general. Nobody is right except me!

Bluepitbull13

code65536

kaer426 wrote: »

Besides.. don't all the hardcore carebears already freely post their dps? What is all this arguing about?

Honestly, I don't care much about final numbers that people post.

This addon tracks total damage (which I find more useful than DPS, due to the calculation discrepancies that arise from timing--how often have you seen FTC give out a report that covered only the last few seconds of an execute phase?) live, in real time. This is far more informative, as you can see the points where DPS spike and when DPS fall. Even if I was in a group where everyone posted their FTC numbers, I'd still prefer this instead.

It still amazes me how many people can get worked up about being able to quantify information that is already public (since, as noted before, you can already estimate people's performance by just observing).

Dawnblade

omfgitsbatman wrote: »

If we remove this addon from the game I would also like removed from the game the following addons since they spy on me as well:

Master Merchant- This addon is dispicable and tells everybody what price I sell my goods for. This should be between me and my buyer. This addon also tells people how much money I have made on a certain guild store every period of time. This leads to Elitist Trade guilds kicking people out if they do not meet a minimum sales requirement. This is nobodies business but my own. They should not be able to display averages for items based on my information if I don't want them too. Please let me opt out of this.

FTC, LUI, Advanced U/I, and all other group/target frames addons- These Spy addons tell everybody my exact health numbers, how large of a shield I have on, They tell my enemies my class. This information should be mine and mine alone. I don't want to have to share this with the rest of the game.

Srendarr- This addon is one of the worst offenders as it lets other people tell whether or not I have a food buff applied, which mundus stone I am using, and it also tells them what debuffs I currently have on me. This is a horrendous invasion of my privacy! When I eat my food is my business!!!

Kill Counter- This addon is poisounous! People should not be aware of who they get the killing blows on. They should not have a detailed count of how often they have killed me and I have killed them. This should just be a guessing game and should not be tracked in hard data .

Wykkyd's Loot Manager (And all that perform a similar function) - This addon actually lets people see what loot I recieve!!! There is no clearer form of spying than this. Please remove this addon from the game. Other people have no right to see what I recieve. I should be able to opt out of this.

There are so many more addons that spy on people! Let's fight to remove all of them and not just this one!!! Come on People!!!

I personally don't see how people can play this game on a console with the total lack of basic information provided by the base game UI.

An option to turn off data and have a minimal UI "for immersion" is fine, but not having options in the base game to provide basic information such as unit frames with HP and resources, combat data, and buffs / debuffs shown is pretty lame.

CloseLine

The real questions for me when I read this thread is two fold....

1. Why on earth would you ever NOT want to see what it is you're doing with real data?
2. What is your game experience like?

In regards to number 1; When I started this game at early access. I was bad. I was one of those baddie pugs. You know what I don't like doing? I don't like being a baddie pug. I don't like wiping on Spindleclutch because we can't kill the gargoyle before it enrages. You know what I do when I don't like something? I try to rectify the situation.

A very helpful player recommended FTC. I used the data to improve my performance and in a short amount of time with a little work on improving my build and rotation Spindleclutch was no longer an issue. I welcome all ways to track my performance with data. What your group mates are doing also effects your performance and vice versa.

In regards to number 2; who are you playing with? I'm in a guild with elitists, baddies, and mediocre folks. I would rate myself as being a bit above mediocre but no where near elite. I know this rating is accurate because I've seen the data.

Anyway, I never have any problems whatsoever with getting groups to complete hard content..... because after 2 years of playing this game.... I'VE MADE FRIENDS that I play with regularly. There's no elitism among friends. Make some damn friends.

If you are getting kicked out of groups with strangers.... I just can't relate to that. If all of my friends aren't on and I need to pick up a pug to fill, we can usually carry that pug. It's no problem to do so. It's not fair that we have to carry someone. They should be doing the same thing I did and improving. I don't mean meta. I mean improving. I try to improve in everything I do in IRL. I'll never be the best IRL either but why on earth would I ever want to force reality to reinforce me sucking at something?

zerosingularity

The mod in question is fine. It lets good players be more accurate on how their DPS allies are doing, so they can say things like "I noticed your DPS wasn't that high for your level, would you like some tips to improve it?" As with anything there will be jerks, this doesn't change that in the slightest. What it does do is allows experienced players to be more accurate and helpful to the less experienced.

85flyingbrick_ESO

I only just recently learned about this add-on. I was curious and downloaded it.I was really surprised to see people were misinterpreting what it does. It's just a DPS/Heals meter. I find it very handy for making sure I'm holding my own weight in group. I'm fortunate to belong to guilds where asking for help is encouraged.

I've done a lot of dungeons and a decent amount of PVP. My dps is okay. I've never been kicked from a group for 'inadequate dps'. If someone is playing in a PUG and gets booted those people are jerks. If you happen to be part of guild that does stuff like then they they're jerks and you don't need them. Both are few and far between in this game from what I've experienced.

This is a tool. Nothing more from what I have seen.

I do hope this add-on isn't eliminated. It serves a purpose.
And as someone who survived Radar in DAOC this is nothing.

rosy_ariete

I think this addon is really awesome. I don't see the point in hiding my dps/healing if I invested a bunch of time in raising well my char, crafting all the good gear, practicing the good rotation and such.

In my opinion jerks are not those that kick you 'cause you don't do your job well, but those that lie about the damage or healing done. If I'm unsure about my skills or if I'm learning to use a new character I raised or so, I simply tell the group (if they're guildies or not).

For me it's also like showing some respect for the "free time" that everyone has. My time is precious as it's the one from other players, so I want to be clear about my stats and let you decide if you want to help me practice (a.k.a. wipe a lot) or not in a dungeon/trial and so on...

So I'm not against this addon at all and I hope ZOS will have the same advice ^^

EDIT: some errors

Frenkthevile

i want this addon TO STAY.
i really like it.

Thelon

If there are 7 ppl in your group named Thermidor, how can you tell how much DPS the actual Thermidor did?

Malmai

Frenkthevile wrote: »

i want this addon TO STAY.
i really like it.

This addon must stay. Now we can see who needs help and Guilds can finally become helpful not just another one of those "Trade Guilds"...

Zaenidd

you do group content, you share infos with group....simple as that, you shouldn't have anything to hide

Xexpo

There is no practical use for this add-on that cannot be accomplished by an already existing one.
If you cannot live without knowing a pug's dps/hps ... maybe you should

just sayin ...

Zorrashi

kaer426 wrote: »

There is no practical use for this add-on that cannot be accomplished by an already existing one.
If you cannot live without knowing a pug's dps/hps ... maybe you should

just sayin ...

Indeed. Honestly them using it to help people with their DPS has never been a problem for me. And as far as I'm concerned they should still be able to do so.
But they should not be able to measure that other persons DPS without their say so. Not wanting to give them option to decline is nothing more than you forcing your standards onto others--which I am vehemently against. After all, they can still say yes to your request.

TalonShina

I don't care if this addon stays or goes. I don't use it believe my husband does. i have my FTC damage bar and all I want to worry about is my numbers. I do see the problem with this addon though many people in this thread well i use it so I can help people fix their builds, now while I appreciate help sometimes its the tone of how said help comes across and those in this thread sound very elitist.

The other problem is being able to just kick because you feel their DPS doesn't measure up and it turns in Raiding games all about the numbers. Now I know some fights are DPS checks or have them. but I would rather not have someone breathing down my neck screaming for more DPS. If everyone focused on the fight and their roles and such I am sure you'd get by the DPS checks just find but when people start hollaring about numbers to me it makes me panic and I do things in panic rather then a sound head and careful rotation. This causes mistakes and mistakes cause wipes

Malmai

TalonShina wrote: »

I don't care if this addon stays or goes. I don't use it believe my husband does. i have my FTC damage bar and all I want to worry about is my numbers. I do see the problem with this addon though many people in this thread well i use it so I can help people fix their builds, now while I appreciate help sometimes its the tone of how said help comes across and those in this thread sound very elitist.

The other problem is being able to just kick because you feel their DPS doesn't measure up and it turns in Raiding games all about the numbers. Now I know some fights are DPS checks or have them. but I would rather not have someone breathing down my neck screaming for more DPS. If everyone focused on the fight and their roles and such I am sure you'd get by the DPS checks just find but when people start hollaring about numbers to me it makes me panic and I do things in panic rather then a sound head and careful rotation. This causes mistakes and mistakes cause wipes

No this addon will make you better because people are lazy now they are not forced and they need practice to do good rotations not to just spam 1 ability and stand in AOE. Most of them lean and leech from other players and that is not fair.

maxjapank

Malmai wrote: »

TalonShina wrote: »

I don't care if this addon stays or goes. I don't use it believe my husband does. i have my FTC damage bar and all I want to worry about is my numbers. I do see the problem with this addon though many people in this thread well i use it so I can help people fix their builds, now while I appreciate help sometimes its the tone of how said help comes across and those in this thread sound very elitist.

The other problem is being able to just kick because you feel their DPS doesn't measure up and it turns in Raiding games all about the numbers. Now I know some fights are DPS checks or have them. but I would rather not have someone breathing down my neck screaming for more DPS. If everyone focused on the fight and their roles and such I am sure you'd get by the DPS checks just find but when people start hollaring about numbers to me it makes me panic and I do things in panic rather then a sound head and careful rotation. This causes mistakes and mistakes cause wipes

No this addon will make you better because people are lazy now they are not forced and they need practice to do good rotations not to just spam 1 ability and stand in AOE. Most of them lean and leech from other players and that is not fair.

No. This addon will not make you better. It isn't magical. It's not going to make you be aware of mechanics. And it's not gonna fix your rotation. And rotations? Other than animation canceling, is there really that much involved? It's not like world of Warcraft feral Druid priority orders. There are some dps checks, but a lot of ESO is about mechanics.

maxjapank

@coolmodi

As the addon's author, I believe you said somewhere in this thread that you would disable the addon's ability to post info in chat. I may be mistaken, but I thought you said that somewhere.

If you do this, it would go a long way to alleviating my concerns about people using / abusing this.

Zorrashi

Malmai wrote: »

TalonShina wrote: »

I don't care if this addon stays or goes. I don't use it believe my husband does. i have my FTC damage bar and all I want to worry about is my numbers. I do see the problem with this addon though many people in this thread well i use it so I can help people fix their builds, now while I appreciate help sometimes its the tone of how said help comes across and those in this thread sound very elitist.

The other problem is being able to just kick because you feel their DPS doesn't measure up and it turns in Raiding games all about the numbers. Now I know some fights are DPS checks or have them. but I would rather not have someone breathing down my neck screaming for more DPS. If everyone focused on the fight and their roles and such I am sure you'd get by the DPS checks just find but when people start hollaring about numbers to me it makes me panic and I do things in panic rather then a sound head and careful rotation. This causes mistakes and mistakes cause wipes

No this addon will make you better because people are lazy now they are not forced and they need practice to do good rotations not to just spam 1 ability and stand in AOE. Most of them lean and leech from other players and that is not fair.

And you are more than free to make that known. You can also, as some have pointed out, try and estimate their DPS based on their gear, abilities used and etc.
But you need to communicate your concerns like an adult and not use an add on to force your preferences onto others. If you initiate dialogue, and they express an interest, then you can help them better themselves.
You don't need an add on to make them better. It is entirely up to you and them.

Function

maxjapank wrote: »

@coolmodi

As the addon's author, I believe you said somewhere in this thread that you would disable the addon's ability to post info in chat. I may be mistaken, but I thought you said that somewhere.

If you do this, it would go a long way to alleviating my concerns about people using / abusing this.

GroupDamage doesn't have the ability to post any info to chat, that is FTC that has the damage parse posts.

maxjapank

Troneon wrote: »

Just started using it and love it so far. Also iv been putting peoples numbers in group chat to let them know how they are doing and they actually loved it, they kept asking me every boss fight, what did I get? And when they sucked they changed something and did better. Only silly people get offended by this addon.

Although im a healer so I am fine anyway Jerks will always be jerks regardless of this addon, if used properly and seen for what it actually is A HELP TOOL, then it can be hugely advantageous.

If players start using it to kick people and not even help them while being an elitist jerk, then they are not worth running groups with and are not using the tool properly....

So when @Troneon says that he puts numbers in group chat, he means he just typed the numbers in himself. There is no linking like you can do with FTC? No image like the one below?

I'm still not saying that I support this addon. But not being able to link info does address one of my main concerns. That being keeping unfriendly players from belittling others.

Function

maxjapank wrote: »

So when @Troneon says that he puts numbers in group chat, he means he just typed the numbers in himself. There is no linking like you can do with FTC? No image like the one below?

I'm still not saying that I support this addon. But not being able to link info does address one of my main concerns. That being keeping unfriendly players from belittling others.

That is correct, the image he posted is the display only the person with the addon sees.. you cannot post it.

Bluepitbull13

maxjapank wrote: »

Troneon wrote: »

Just started using it and love it so far. Also iv been putting peoples numbers in group chat to let them know how they are doing and they actually loved it, they kept asking me every boss fight, what did I get? And when they sucked they changed something and did better. Only silly people get offended by this addon.

Although im a healer so I am fine anyway Jerks will always be jerks regardless of this addon, if used properly and seen for what it actually is A HELP TOOL, then it can be hugely advantageous.

If players start using it to kick people and not even help them while being an elitist jerk, then they are not worth running groups with and are not using the tool properly....

So when @Troneon says that he puts numbers in group chat, he means he just typed the numbers in himself. There is no linking like you can do with FTC? No image like the one below?

I'm still not saying that I support this addon. But not being able to link info does address one of my main concerns. That being keeping unfriendly players from belittling others.

In FTC you can post your DPS parses to group chat through the damage report or through keybind, that image of group damage is an edited print screen to just show group damage on his comment.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Function wrote: »

That is correct, the image he posted is the display only the person with the addon sees.. you cannot post it.

Of course you can.
- Screenshot and post link (takes 1 minute)
- Type numbers in chat (takes 10 seconds)

I admit that it is not as easy, quick and spammable than with a direct, keybound link in chat, but people can still do tons of nasty things with it.

Anyhow, the more people in favour of this addon post in this thread, the more apparent it is that they do not wish to help other people with lesser DPS (herein described as "lazy", "baddies"...) : they want to point their finger at them, patronize them and filter them out.

And the question remains as to what "lesser DPS" means : look at the multiple threads about "what's decent DPS ?" and you'll see that perceptions vary very widely. Without this add-on, people just see if they complete the dungeon or not. WIth this add-on, people with 18K will start patronizing people with 15K, people with 15K will start patronising people with 13K, people with 13K will start patronizing people with 10K, and so on. Good luck with that.



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maxjapank

Thanks @Function and @Bluepitbull13 . That is good to know.

Function

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Function wrote: »

That is correct, the image he posted is the display only the person with the addon sees.. you cannot post it.

Of course you can.
- Screenshot and post link (takes 1 minute)
- Type numbers in chat (takes 10 seconds)


I admit that it is not as easy, quick and spammable than with a direct, keybound link in chat, but people can still do tons of nasty things with it.

.

That is not what he was asking, he was asking if the addon had the functionality of posting it to chat.

SirDopey

WOW....this thread certainly blew up. If you have crap DPS your group's already going to know, so don't be scared people....