Spy Addon Group Damage

Grunim

Preyfar wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

Please. I do good dps and do good heals. And people who play with me have often commented on that. They don't need an addon to see that. But I'm gonna see if ZOS responds to this. It's really not my nor your decision. But let me know in game if I'm ever in a group with you so I can promptly leave. I prefer to not heal for people with this kind of attitude.

DPS isn't the entire story of the fight. If somebody dies, and I run over to res them, my DPS drops. I've had people ask why my DPS was "only" 14K after a fight's over. Only? Oh, sorry, next time I won't res and leave the healer dead on the ground.

People worry too much about DPS buy a number but doesn't tell the entire story of a fight. Granted, I have fought with people whose DPS was painfully low... but it's pretty obvious who those people are.

Thanks for the great post, Preyfar. (BTW, I've enjoyed fighting you and some of your group mates in Cyro in recent weeks).

I cringe whenever somebody posts their DPS performance in a pug group. I would rather be in a group who took longer to complete a dungeon, but the people were fun to play with. Like the random pledge group I joined today where I said I needed more coffee and when I came back with hot steaming coffee (yes it was delicious), the group chat was about everybody discussing their favorite sort of coffee and nobody minded that I wasted 2 minutes out of their day by satisfying my caffeine addiction.

I can understand how some of the competitive PvE community may want better tools, but a large amount of the community enjoys a more laid back and social group PvE experience than it being just about the "big numberz".

I'm with Preyfar, there are so many times I've rezzed someone and I'm sure the indicator would show my DPS suffering or the times I stopped DPSing to help the tank out with CC, etc.

coolmodi

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

There are so many garbage numbers online.

I always thought I'm super bad, my DPS always seemed so stupidly low compared to the numbers I always see at various sources. Now I know where I stand. This is also the original reason for me making this addon.

Zorrashi wrote: »

It would not be a big deal at all if it wasn't for the "spying" part. DPS and such measurements are fine if all parties consent to it.

Seriously, that's the world we live in? People that work with others towards a common goal demand to first give their "consent" for the others to even know if they do anything to reach that goal?

Can I please not have any information about my work in university-workgroups disclosed to the others, even if we fail, they should have no right to know it's my fault!

Just don't play with other random people, but doing that AND not giving a single **** whether you are even any good, or simply not wanting them to know you are not, is just pathetic.

@Grunim: Implementing an "active time", death counter, and if possible also rezz counter into the (unreleased and unfinished) statistics part of the addon was planned. This is not about DPS, but about having insight into the fight, and ultimately beeing able to have a tool to find mistakes and room for improvement, for yourself, but also for guilds.

I just don't think that should be made impossible just because some people don't want others to call them out on their lazyness. They are free to play alone, or with people that don't mind, I would mind, but I'd be glad to help people improve if they wish so.

Grunim

coolmodi wrote: »

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

There are so many garbage numbers online.

I always thought I'm super bad, my DPS always seemed so stupidly low compared to the numbers I always see at various sources. Now I know where I stand. This is also the original reason for me making this addon.

Zorrashi wrote: »

It would not be a big deal at all if it wasn't for the "spying" part. DPS and such measurements are fine if all parties consent to it.

Seriously, that's the world we live in? People that work with others towards a common goal demand to first give their "consent" for the others to even know if they do anything to reach that goal?

Can I please not have any information about my work in university-workgroups disclosed to the others, even if we fail, they should have no right to know it's my fault!

Just don't play with other random people, but doing that AND not giving a single **** whether you are even any good, or simply not wanting them to know you are not, is just pathetic.

@Grunim: Implementing an "active time", death counter, and if possible also rezz counter into the (unreleased and unfinished) statistics part of the addon was planned. This is not about DPS, but about having insight into the fight, and ultimately beeing able to have a tool to find mistakes and room for improvement, for yourself, but also for guilds.

I just don't think that should be made impossible just because some people don't want others to call them out on their lazyness. They are free to play alone, or with people that don't mind, I would mind, but I'd be glad to help people improve if they wish so.

I'm curious, are there ways to look at other useful things people do for groups such as how many mobs were CC'd and for how long? Or looks at debuffs placed on enemies or buffs placed on the group? Tools that show things like that could be interesting

maxjapank

coolmodi wrote: »

I just don't think that should be made impossible just because some people don't want others to call them out on their lazyness. They are free to play alone, or with people that don't mind, I would mind, but I'd be glad to help people improve if they wish so.

Why don't you make it possible to share info with others who choose to do so? You would make both camps happy. It's as simple as that.

Function

maxjapank wrote: »

Why don't you make it possible to share info with others who choose to do so? You would make both camps happy. It's as simple as that.

Xjcon recommended a simple fix for those who do not wish to share their DPS numbers.

Xjcon wrote: »

When you join a group Ask if they run this addon, when they say yes you can opt out.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Function wrote: »

When you join a group Ask if they run this addon, when they say yes you can opt out.

And if they say no and are lying ? (LOL, are you truly that naive ?)


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Ra'Shtar

Why do people pug if they have so many confidence issues on themselves ?

Function

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

And if they say no and are lying ? (LOL, are you truly that naive ?)

They could, but does it really even matter? Why don't you want other people to see your DPS numbers so bad? I cant think of any reasons you could possibly have.

Zorrashi

Function wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

Why don't you make it possible to share info with others who choose to do so? You would make both camps happy. It's as simple as that.

Xjcon recommended a simple fix for those who do not wish to share their DPS numbers.

Xjcon wrote: »

When you join a group Ask if they run this addon, when they say yes you can opt out.

I do believe toggles/opt ins are simpler. Even if only because the relative rarity of this particular add on makes it a tedium to repeatedly ask of its use.
Not to mention toggles/opt ins save that whole conversation of "what's are you talking about?" or "what add on is that?"

If enough people say no you can leave. Or conversely, if enough people say yes to it, then I leave. No harm no foul. Much more efficient and simpler than everyone not using the add on asking every group if the add on is in use.

Xjcon

Zorrashi wrote: »

Function wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

Why don't you make it possible to share info with others who choose to do so? You would make both camps happy. It's as simple as that.

Xjcon recommended a simple fix for those who do not wish to share their DPS numbers.

Xjcon wrote: »

When you join a group Ask if they run this addon, when they say yes you can opt out.

I do believe toggles/opt ins are simpler. Even if only because the relative rarity of this particular add on makes it a tedium to repeatedly ask of its use.
Not to mention toggles/opt ins save that whole conversation of "what's are you talking about?" or "what add on is that?"

If enough people say no you can leave. Or conversely, if enough people say yes to it, then I leave. No harm no foul. Much more efficient and simpler than everyone not using the add on asking every group if the add on is in use.

How would you even know if they are running it or not? Honestly unless you're getting called out for only doing 5k on a boss you wouldn't even know. And to be fair 99% of people who have it will not even bother the other person about their dps so long as the group is progressing.

Zorrashi

Function wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

And if they say no and are lying ? (LOL, are you truly that naive ?)

They could, but does it really even matter? Why don't you want other people to see your DPS numbers so bad? I cant think of any reasons you could possibly have.

It is simply a matter of preference to some. No other reason needed.

Zorrashi

Xjcon wrote: »

Zorrashi wrote: »

Function wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

Why don't you make it possible to share info with others who choose to do so? You would make both camps happy. It's as simple as that.

Xjcon recommended a simple fix for those who do not wish to share their DPS numbers.

Xjcon wrote: »

When you join a group Ask if they run this addon, when they say yes you can opt out.

I do believe toggles/opt ins are simpler. Even if only because the relative rarity of this particular add on makes it a tedium to repeatedly ask of its use.
Not to mention toggles/opt ins save that whole conversation of "what's are you talking about?" or "what add on is that?"

If enough people say no you can leave. Or conversely, if enough people say yes to it, then I leave. No harm no foul. Much more efficient and simpler than everyone not using the add on asking every group if the add on is in use.

How would you even know if they are running it or not? Honestly unless you're getting called out for only doing 5k on a boss you wouldn't even know. And to be fair 99% of people who have it will not even bother the other person about their dps so long as the group is progressing.

One would imagine that if ther was a opt in prompt in system at all, then that alone would be enough to signal the add ins use. Hence why I prefer it.
And "knowing" about the add on is hardly the point. Again, it's about consent. About if I want a third party system tracking my numbers and calculating it with or without my consent.

Xjcon

Just can't have nice things without someone having issues with it.

maxjapank

Xjcon wrote: »

Just can't have nice things without someone having issues with it.

Not at all. And it just astounds me how players who are willing to compromise and let like-minded players have the option to share information must defend ourselves against players who are unwilling to compromise. We keep saying and supporting your right to use an addon with your friends and guildmates. We keep saying that competitive players should have the right to compare numbers with their friends. But you guys won't have any of it. You want everyone to be at the mercy of this addon.

I feel like you are wanting all of us to join the high elf race. That there is no room for other races like wood elves and khajiits to exist.

Ra'Shtar

Xjcon wrote: »

Just can't have nice things without someone having issues with it.

There is always someone crying for something if its not pvp guy complaining about pve its a pve guy complaining about pvp and now we have the ultra casuals who play 2 hours a week (and probably don't even pay sub) complaining because they have 2k dps and don't want anyone to know it.

anitajoneb17_ESO

asneakybanana wrote: »

I'm not really a fan of the whole kick you out of the group because you suck thing. The only time I will stop helping commanding you and simply kick you out or running with you is if you refuse to learn obey and being ignorant refuse to get enlightened by my great knowledge.

Fixed it for you.

Cuyler wrote: »

At the time of my post the author hadn't posted sooo yea not sure why u so salty I asked for a source.

Because doubting a quote that's brought by a screenshot and asking for a source that you could have found by yourself in 10 seconds is far over the top.

asneakybanana wrote: »

If you don't like these things then take your carebear cancer back to skyrim and don't participate in an mmo.

Nice to meet you, too.

---

Why ask anyone for an authorization to be photographed ? Everybody knows that the only people who don't want to be on a picture are the ones who know that they are fat and ugly, that's the only true reason for anyone to refuse a photograph.


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anitajoneb17_ESO

Xjcon wrote: »

Just can't have nice things without someone having issues with it.

Just can't have a nice game without elitists wanting to make it a competition and force it onto everyone.

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Ruben

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

asneakybanana wrote: »

I'm not really a fan of the whole kick you out of the group because you suck thing. The only time I will stop helping commanding you and simply kick you out or running with you is if you refuse to learn obey and being ignorant refuse to get enlightened by my great knowledge.

Fixed it for you.

Some of us actually help and try to teach others when we group up and it's obvious that they don't know what they are doing.
The first step is to know that they need help and this addon is good for that.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Function wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

And if they say no and are lying ? (LOL, are you truly that naive ?)

They could, but does it really even matter? Why don't you want other people to see your DPS numbers so bad? I cant think of any reasons you could possibly have.

It's very simple : if they ask for it first (because they must), I know it's not the kind of group I will like to run with, so I can leave immediately (like I do now when people ask for linked gear, stats or achievements). It's simply not my state of mind and I don't want to run with such people. If they don't ask first (or lie when I ask them if they use the addon) I'll waste my time running with them and have no fun. Even maybe reach an achievement that I will be ashamed of.

Xjcon

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anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Xjcon wrote: »

Just can't have nice things without someone having issues with it.

Just can't have a nice game without elitists wanting to make it a competition and force it onto everyone.

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No one is being forced to compete.

Shunravi

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Function wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

And if they say no and are lying ? (LOL, are you truly that naive ?)

They could, but does it really even matter? Why don't you want other people to see your DPS numbers so bad? I cant think of any reasons you could possibly have.

It's very simple : if they ask for it first (because they must), I know it's not the kind of group I will like to run with, so I can leave immediately (like I do now when people ask for linked gear, stats or achievements). It's simply not my state of mind and I don't want to run with such people. If they don't ask first (or lie when I ask them if they use the addon) I'll waste my time running with them and have no fun. Even maybe reach an achievement that I will be ashamed of.

The only thing to be ashamed of is your inability to have fun.

Dymence

Just wanted to jump in here and say this addon is rubbish.

The API is still closed and the numbers displayed by this addon are more often than not extremely incorrect.

Use at own risk...

anitajoneb17_ESO

Shunravi wrote: »

The only thing to be ashamed of is your inability to have fun.

... meaning ???

anitajoneb17_ESO

Xjcon wrote: »

.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Xjcon wrote: »

Just can't have nice things without someone having issues with it.

Just can't have a nice game without elitists wanting to make it a competition and force it onto everyone.

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No one is being forced to compete.

Really ? What does this mean then :

coolmodi wrote: »

This addon only negatively affects people who want others to carry them and do all the work for them, people who refuse to improve. There is no reason people who aren't intetionally bad because of lazyness should be afraid of this addon.

if not "if you're not competitive you're lazy parasites" ?

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Kyoma

I do find this addon extremely useful, not because it shows someone's DPS but because I can use it to see the percentage of damage everybody did on a boss. As for it being inaccurate, well, that's very simple: DPS is "damage-per-second" and in order to get an average you need to monitor how long the combat lasts. And that.....is very sloppy in ESO.

Edit: Oh and I couldn't give a damn about the dps it may show when in a daily pug, you can see dps is low without addons simply because it takes too long.

Shunravi

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

The only thing to be ashamed of is your inability to have fun.

... meaning ???

Just poking with a stick... Carry on.

MisterBigglesworth

Dymence wrote: »

Just wanted to jump in here and say this addon is rubbish.

The API is still closed and the numbers displayed by this addon are more often than not extremely incorrect.

Use at own risk...

When you used it and got inaccurate numbers, was everyone in your group within close range the entire fight?

lolo_01b16_ESO

In my opinion it's a great addon:
- If running trials with guild mates the addon makes it much easier too figure out where the team can improve. (E.g. in fights where not everyone is stacked at the same point the addon can help to choose who should go where)
- If someone has surprisingly low dps you could try helping them to figure out what they are doing wrong.
- As healer (and to some extend as tank) you can adjust your skills depending on the dds to make the group better. When I'm running dungeons with random dds, I never know if it's worth buffing them, or if the boss would die faster if I simply dps myself. Seeing everyone's dps allows me to get a fast overview which buffs are worth it and which ones I can drop.

Also I don't think anyone will get kicked from group because of this addon. If someone kicks you he would have done the same without the addon. It might however have the opposite result. If someone wants to kick you because the group doesn't do enough dps, he might realize that his dps is lower than yours and will not kick you right away.

Dymence

MisterBigglesworth wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Just wanted to jump in here and say this addon is rubbish.

The API is still closed and the numbers displayed by this addon are more often than not extremely incorrect.

Use at own risk...

When you used it and got inaccurate numbers, was everyone in your group within close range the entire fight?

Yup, it sometimes deviated from actual DPS by 4 to 5k..

Slayyer-AUS

All this add on does is calculate how much damage you did and other people did. You can calculate this yourself with out any add ons group damage just does it for you.

If you do good dps you have nothing to complain about obviously it is only the people who can't do good dps that is complaining. In all seriousness...L2FP GOSH!