Spy Addon Group Damage

omfgitsbatman

This add on is literally the best thing ever. I have used it to help at least 7 or 8 people already that didn't know they were hindering their groups while running pledges. That is the problem. People are hindering their groups and don't realize it a lot of the time. I like making sure I am doing the best I can, so if someone else Is doing better than me, I want to see it so I can ask how I can improve myself. I also use it to give out some advice to peyote that obviously need a few pointers.

FeaR Turbo

Information is Powerful, and that is what this add on does. Gives Information. No more QQ. Facts are facts. This add on just makes it easier to find those facts.

Love the add on.

Mojmir

I had this add on for awhile,it was cool seeing the numbers.then it became about numbers and not the game. i i un-installed the add on and only run with guild who doesn't care about numbers.BTW I have all the monster set PC's,and I didn't worry about numbers.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

If this addon gets pulled, this will be the reason

Ra'Shtar

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

If this addon gets pulled, this will be the reason

Too late ZoS is going to make code changes so it will not work anymore.

Zorrashi

Ra'Shtar wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

If this addon gets pulled, this will be the reason

Too late ZoS is going to make code changes so it will not work anymore.

But it doesn't have to be pulled out comepletly does it? Some amendments to the code to make it opt in can make it somewhat acceptible can it not? If the add on acts less "hacky" and instead acts more along the line of an optional ask prompt or something (and thus gain express permission to utilize their data) then the add on itself can remain.

Kammakazi

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

If this addon gets pulled, this will be the reason

Are you talking about QQ (crying about it) or Pugs (the breed or pickup groups)? LOL

Daveheart

@anitajoneb17_ESO I don't know what was done to you or who hurt you, but your elitist conspiracy theories are all over the place. I play with a lot of the people you seem to automatically dismiss as [snip]. I personally find your attitude extremely toxic to the game and these forums, and think everyone here would be better off completely ignoring you and making up their own minds.

Dymence wrote: »

MisterBigglesworth wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Just wanted to jump in here and say this addon is rubbish.

The API is still closed and the numbers displayed by this addon are more often than not extremely incorrect.

Use at own risk...

When you used it and got inaccurate numbers, was everyone in your group within close range the entire fight?

Yup, it sometimes deviated from actual DPS by 4 to 5k..

I've found it extremely accurate on total damage numbers, but always way off on DPS. Have you actually seen variation on total damage numbers?

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Kammakazi wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

If this addon gets pulled, this will be the reason

Are you talking about QQ (crying about it) or Pugs (the breed or pickup groups)? LOL

YES

anitajoneb17_ESO

Daveheart wrote: »

@anitajoneb17_ESO I don't know what was done to you or who hurt you, but your elitist conspiracy theories are all over the place. I play with a lot of the people you seem to automatically dismiss as [snip]. I personally find your attitude extremely toxic to the game and these forums, and think everyone here would be better off completely ignoring you and making up their own minds.
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

Waow... 3-in-1 here :

- With all the issues brought up in this topic, all you could come up with is a personal attack without any topic-related argument ?
- I also want people to make up their own mind and in doing so I do not advise them to ignore people I disagree with
- "Conspiracy theory" implies that a group of people have a hidden agenda, now please show me where I have said such a thing ?


.

Shader_Shibes

It's great, i love it! Now people can see how really op i am.

Mythk

Add-ons like this need to exist so that players that are very familiar with the game that also have this add-on are able to help people that may be less experienced and not realize they are doing anything wrong. All this add-on does is enable you to see the DPS of your group and with that knowledge you can give tips to your fellow group members and they can become better at doing their role (DPS) by listening what you may have to offer.

Personally, I normally go in zone and LFG my way into a pug group maybe once or twice a day, and I enjoy playing with other groups and helping them get through. With this add-on I can help the other DPS in my party to get better at what they are doing if they listen to what advice I may have to offer.

All this add-on does is separate the players who want to get better but don't know how from the people who just want to get carried and have to put in no work on their own (I see someone in support of this playstyle right in this thread @anitajoneb17_ESO ).

Players like @asneakybanana could use this add-on to help with their group coordination and get everyone on par with the competitive things they run.
Less competitive players can use this add-on to compare their numbers with their fellow group members and friends in order to see how they stack up against other people.
Players looking for a carry can cry about this add-on as it makes it harder for them to find a group willing to carry their pathetic cancerous [snip] through content.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Mythk wrote: »

.../...
Personally, I normally go in zone and LFG my way into a pug group maybe once or twice a day, and I enjoy playing with other groups and helping them get through. With this add-on I can help the other DPS in my party to get better at what they are doing if they listen to what advice I may have to offer.

All this add-on does is separate the players who want to get better but don't know how from the people who just want to get carried and have to put in no work on their own (I see someone in support of this playstyle right in this thread @anitajoneb17_ESO )..../...

Players looking for a carry can cry about this add-on as it makes it harder for them to find a group willing to carry their pathetic cancerous [snip] through content.

- What you call "helping people" is actually forcing / encouraging them to conform to your playstyle, a playstyle that is entirely oriented towards max DPS (not required by the game), which in turn will lead to more people running exactly the same build and the same rotation. Which in turn will lead to people getting bored and leaving the game. People like you kill the diversity the game is offering.

- No, I haven't said that. What I say is it is more fun, more social, more pleasant to organize a dungeon or raid run with people with different playstyles and builds and abilities (not all max DPS oriented) rather than selecting people for their uniform, identical DPS-oriented min/maxed builds. It also makes such groups play WITH the dungeon mechanics instead of bypassing them. And it makes each run different (therefore not boring) while max-DPS-only runs are all strictly identical. Restricting "being good" to "pulling more DPS" is a narrow-minded view that needs to be countered because it kills the game by killing its diversity. Of course, each group is free to play as they please, including max-burst-DPS, in which case this addon will be good for them, but it should be optional and not advertised as the only good way to play.

- I don't know what was behind the "snip" but resorting to cursing or insults only shows a lack of argumentation imho.

.

akriden

Mythk wrote: »

Add-ons like this need to exist so that players that are very familiar with the game that also have this add-on are able to help people that may be less experienced and not realize they are doing anything wrong.

Sorry, but this happens only in a perfect world. We do not live in a perfect world. People are not able to handle this informations in a social way.

Dymence

Daveheart wrote: »

@anitajoneb17_ESO I don't know what was done to you or who hurt you, but your elitist conspiracy theories are all over the place. I play with a lot of the people you seem to automatically dismiss as [snip]. I personally find your attitude extremely toxic to the game and these forums, and think everyone here would be better off completely ignoring you and making up their own minds.

Dymence wrote: »

MisterBigglesworth wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Just wanted to jump in here and say this addon is rubbish.

The API is still closed and the numbers displayed by this addon are more often than not extremely incorrect.

Use at own risk...

When you used it and got inaccurate numbers, was everyone in your group within close range the entire fight?

Yup, it sometimes deviated from actual DPS by 4 to 5k..

I've found it extremely accurate on total damage numbers, but always way off on DPS. Have you actually seen variation on total damage numbers?

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

Yes, I've even had an extreme case where the total damage deviated by 1 million damage.

Function

Dymence wrote: »

Just wanted to jump in here and say this addon is rubbish.

The API is still closed and the numbers displayed by this addon are more often than not extremely incorrect.

Use at own risk...

Its actually very accurate from all the tests I have done, I think you just overlooked the fact that it is a group damage meter that will begin a parse when anyone in your group attacks unlike a personal DPS meter like FTC that only starts when you attack yourself. Also GroupDamage waits a few seconds at the end of a fight to make sure it is over before ending the parse which usually lowers your DPS number a bit.

Dymence

Function wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Just wanted to jump in here and say this addon is rubbish.

The API is still closed and the numbers displayed by this addon are more often than not extremely incorrect.

Use at own risk...

Its actually very accurate from all the tests I have done, I think you just overlooked the fact that it is a group damage meter that will begin a parse when anyone in your group attacks unlike a personal DPS meter like FTC that only starts when you attack yourself. Also GroupDamage waits a few seconds at the end of a fight to make sure it is over before ending the parse which usually lowers your DPS number a bit.

Then explain my above post, how can a result deviate by a million damage?

These are just my personal experiences with this addon and as such I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. If it would work correctly that would be one thing, but that seems to be a rare occurence.

In my eyes this addon is like poison, and looking at this thread it only confirms that much for me. Everyone just blindly put their trust in the data provided by the addon even if it can be largely incorrect. The only thing this does is lead to misunderstandings/stress/hate between people where it is absolutely unnecessary.

As stated by previous posters, you don't need a group DPS addon to find out if someone's DPS is bad or not. You'll realize that by yourself by how slow the fights are going.

Function

Dymence wrote: »

Then explain my above post, how can a result deviate by a million damage?

These are just my personal experiences with this addon and as such I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. If it would work correctly that would be one thing, but that seems to be a rare occurence.

In my eyes this addon is like poison, and looking at this thread it only confirms that much for me. Everyone just blindly put their trust in the data provided by the addon even if it can be largely incorrect. The only thing this does is lead to misunderstandings/stress/hate between people where it is absolutely unnecessary.

As stated by previous posters, you don't need a group DPS addon to find out if someone's DPS is bad or not. You'll realize that by yourself by how slow the fights are going.

Were the parse times the exact same but with different damage amounts? If so I haven't encountered it being inaccurate like that.. the amount of damage GroupDamage displays me doing has always been extremely close to the amount FTC is telling me that I am doing.

*EDIT* Although my actual DPS number is normally lower because as I said above, the time starts when anyone else attacks and it also adds a few seconds to the end.

omfgitsbatman

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Mythk wrote: »

.../...
Personally, I normally go in zone and LFG my way into a pug group maybe once or twice a day, and I enjoy playing with other groups and helping them get through. With this add-on I can help the other DPS in my party to get better at what they are doing if they listen to what advice I may have to offer.

All this add-on does is separate the players who want to get better but don't know how from the people who just want to get carried and have to put in no work on their own (I see someone in support of this playstyle right in this thread @anitajoneb17_ESO )..../...

Players looking for a carry can cry about this add-on as it makes it harder for them to find a group willing to carry their pathetic cancerous [snip] through content.

- What you call "helping people" is actually forcing / encouraging them to conform to your playstyle, a playstyle that is entirely oriented towards max DPS (not required by the game), which in turn will lead to more people running exactly the same build and the same rotation. Which in turn will lead to people getting bored and leaving the game. People like you kill the diversity the game is offering.

- No, I haven't said that. What I say is it is more fun, more social, more pleasant to organize a dungeon or raid run with people with different playstyles and builds and abilities (not all max DPS oriented) rather than selecting people for their uniform, identical DPS-oriented min/maxed builds. It also makes such groups play WITH the dungeon mechanics instead of bypassing them. And it makes each run different (therefore not boring) while max-DPS-only runs are all strictly identical. Restricting "being good" to "pulling more DPS" is a narrow-minded view that needs to be countered because it kills the game by killing its diversity. Of course, each group is free to play as they please, including max-burst-DPS, in which case this addon will be good for them, but it should be optional and not advertised as the only good way to play.

- I don't know what was behind the "snip" but resorting to cursing or insults only shows a lack of argumentation imho.

.

It's definitely more fun when you join a vet dungeon group and are actually able to complete it. I have definitely been in groups that will sit there and bang their head against the wall again and again and then get angry and turn on each other.
I gave gotten into groups on my tank where at V16 the total dps was roughly 7k combined and mine was 2.5k as the tank. The healer was 2k. If you do the math on that, you'll realize that the 2 dps were pulling a combined total of 2.5k dps. This could not out dps the healing on veteran elder hollow's Bogdan. We spent 10 minutes per attempt to only wipe while the boss was at 98%. There was nothing fun about this at all. The healer got mad, and chewed the dps out, then rage quit (he did nit have GroupDamage). I stayed behind, offered them tips based on numbers I was seeing. They were not running addons and never even considered that they were hindering the groups that they joined.
Now they changed their builds up a bit and are actually capable of beating content. I'd say that's way more fun than the alternative of having every group you join get angry with you, quitting, and never being able to finish a gold pledge.

anitajoneb17_ESO

omfgitsbatman wrote: »

It's definitely more fun when you join a vet dungeon group and are actually able to complete it. I have definitely been in groups that will sit there and bang their head against the wall again and again and then get angry and turn on each other.
I gave gotten into groups on my tank where at V16 the total dps was roughly 7k combined and mine was 2.5k as the tank. The healer was 2k. If you do the math on that, you'll realize that the 2 dps were pulling a combined total of 2.5k dps. This could not out dps the healing on veteran elder hollow's Bogdan. We spent 10 minutes per attempt to only wipe while the boss was at 98%. There was nothing fun about this at all. The healer got mad, and chewed the dps out, then rage quit (he did nit have GroupDamage). I stayed behind, offered them tips based on numbers I was seeing. They were not running addons and never even considered that they were hindering the groups that they joined.
Now they changed their builds up a bit and are actually capable of beating content. I'd say that's way more fun than the alternative of having every group you join get angry with you, quitting, and never being able to finish a gold pledge.

Are you sure you aren't exaggerating a bit ? I don't know if it is even possible to pull under 2K DPS. People should do more than this using only light attacks.
Are you also sure these players were VR16 ? Because you have to level somehow in this game, and even if the leveling content is very easy, I'm not sure it is doable with such low DPS.
Exaggerated or not, this is an extreme, obviously rare case, and you don't need any addon to identify such low DPS anyway. Those players do not need an addon either to know that they have low DPS. And yes of course it's not fun to run in such conditions, but it's very rare and obviously beyond the "help" of any addon.

I was referring to the majority of players who run with 7-14K DPS and imho it's more fun to run with them than with 20-25K DPS players. I don't deny any group the right to aim for 25K each or more, I just don't want it to be the milestone for "good gaming".


.

coolmodi

omfgitsbatman wrote: »

The healer got mad, and chewed the dps out, then rage quit (he did nit have GroupDamage). I stayed behind, offered them tips based on numbers I was seeing. They were not running addons and never even considered that they were hindering the groups that they joined.
Now they changed their builds up a bit and are actually capable of beating content. I'd say that's way more fun than the alternative of having every group you join get angry with you, quitting, and never being able to finish a gold pledge.

This is why I made this addon, this is a MMO, you play with others to beat dungeons or other difficult NPCs (at least in PvE), and not even knowing how you perform in the group, not beeing able to see if others perform good or bad, not beeing able to tell what others may do wrong (would be the goal of the statistics part of the addon), just having no clue why you wipe over and over is just stupid in this kind of game.

Dmg is missing? Well, too bad, it's one or even both of the DDs, good luck finding out or even helping them, just disband the group, what else will you do? I can only think of the people talking as if their numbers are some kind of personal sensitive information are people who are responsible in those cases, but lack the will to do anything about it, they just want to go on and let themself get carried.

Even in WoW, where the community was arguably worse than here, I often got in the situation where people told others that they do crap dmg/don't heal correctly, and they should try doing this instead of spamming that, and guess what, they often got better in the same dungeon already and it was fine. Only the people who got agressive on beeing criticised were kicked.

Edit:
Every single argument against this addon is void as you can just not join the group. You can choose not to show your numbers that way. If you want in a group, but also not let them see your numbers, that can only mean you want to get carried and intentionally waste their time. This is nothing that should be supported.

And if you are actually not bad, actually perform as if the group you join would expect, then WHY OH WHY would you have a problem with them seeing it? It just makes no sense.

Dymence wrote: »

Just wanted to jump in here and say this addon is rubbish.

The API is still closed and the numbers displayed by this addon are more often than not extremely incorrect.

Use at own risk...

The absolute dmg/heal numbers can't be wrong if you never left the visual range of participating units, the API reports any combat event with a unique unitId for everything that is "loaded in". The dps/hps is often off a bit, it doesn't use ms and also the combat end is not handled the same as it is e.g. in FTC.

But yes, the addon is pretty crappy atm, but absolute numbers technically shouldn't be wrong in normal cases.

anitajoneb17_ESO

coolmodi wrote: »

And if you are actually not bad, actually perform as if the group you join would expect, then WHY OH WHY would you have a problem with them seeing it? It just makes no sense.

I have an "average-to-good" 15-20K DPS, 30K peaks with ulti in favourable short situations. I guess that's OK for 95% of the groups (only leaderboard aiming groups would rightfully reject it).
Read the thread please, I explained several times already why I still don't want to be in groups that use such an add-on. If there was an opt-out option I would not mind, but since there isn't, it can be used without my knowledge / consent, and I do not want that.

Code it so that people have to opt-in prior to their numbers being shared or made public and I'll be fine. I mean, I'd still not use it but I wouldn't consider it bad for the game or the community.
.

coolmodi

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

I have an "average-to-good" 15-20K DPS, 30K peaks with ulti in favourable short situations. I guess that's OK for 95% of the groups (only leaderboard aiming groups would rightfully reject it).
Read the thread please, I explained several times already why I still don't want to be in groups that use such an add-on. If there was an opt-out option I would not mind, but since there isn't, it can be used without my knowledge / consent, and I do not want that.

But why? I haven't read a single argument that would explain that. If you are not lying, then why are you people so scared of others seeing it? I don't get it. They have your account name, they have your character name, but you are afraid of them knowing some numbers? This just makes no sense. Except if you're actually lying.

I'm not even max Level, I play less them most, I probably have under 10k dps if I reach V16, but how could I have a problem with people seeing that, that's just a number I have on a character in a game. If that's not enough for content xy then so be it, but I won't just go in groups and let them wonder why everything is so hard, I'm not the problem, I have 35k dps, at least I told them so.

But people here also compare it to beeing photographed irl, it's more like grades in school not beeing visible to anybody, and if someone is too lazy and bad, the whole class fails. People here want to do exactly that, and just hope the others are good enough and work hard enough to carry them, all while hiding behind the information barrier.

akriden wrote: »

Sorry, but this happens only in a perfect world. We do not live in a perfect world. People are not able to handle this informations in a social way.

It even happened in WoW, are suggesting this community is even worse? Seriously? I can handle it, most people can, just don't play with the few childish elitists, problem solved.
The place where people got kicked in WoW (at least when I still played 3+ years ago) were raids or heroic dungeons that just couldn't be done with people performing too bad. But people here aparently want to take away the fun of others just so they can get carried, even if it means groups disbanding because they don't know whats wrong. That's just f***** up imho.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Code it so that people have to opt-in prior to their numbers being shared or made public and I'll be fine. I mean, I'd still not use it but I wouldn't consider it bad for the game or the community.

Also this is not possible, and it would also just end up in people who hide their performance not getting taken, as the only reason to hide it in a cooperative performance-critical task is because you have a reason to hide it.

It allegedly beeing some super sensitive personal info is not a reason, it's a virtual character with no connection to you irl.

Zorrashi

coolmodi wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

I have an "average-to-good" 15-20K DPS, 30K peaks with ulti in favourable short situations. I guess that's OK for 95% of the groups (only leaderboard aiming groups would rightfully reject it).
Read the thread please, I explained several times already why I still don't want to be in groups that use such an add-on. If there was an opt-out option I would not mind, but since there isn't, it can be used without my knowledge / consent, and I do not want that.

But why? I haven't read a single argument that would explain that. If you are not lying, then why are you people so scared of others seeing it? I don't get it. They have your account name, they have your character name, but you are afraid of them knowing some numbers? This just makes no sense. Except if you're actually lying.

I'm not even max Level, I play less them most, I probably have under 10k dps if I reach V16, but how could I have a problem with people seeing that, that's just a number I have on a character in a game. If that's not enough for content xy then so be it, but I won't just go in groups and let them wonder why everything is so hard, I'm not the problem, I have 35k dps, at least I told them so.

But people here also compare it to beeing photographed irl, it's more like grades in school not beeing visible to anybody, and if someone is too lazy and bad, the whole class fails. People here want to do exactly that, and just hope the others are good enough and work hard enough to carry them, all while hiding behind the information barrier.

akriden wrote: »

Sorry, but this happens only in a perfect world. We do not live in a perfect world. People are not able to handle this informations in a social way.

It even happened in WoW, are suggesting this community is even worse? Seriously? I can handle it, most people can, just don't play with the few childish elitists, problem solved.
The place where people got kicked in WoW (at least when I still played 3+ years ago) were raids or heroic dungeons that just couldn't be done with people performing too bad. But people here aparently want to take away the fun of others just so they can get carried, even if it means groups disbanding because they don't know whats wrong. That's just f***** up imho.

What part of preference is so foreign to you?

asneakybanana

"Why ask anyone for an authorization to be photographed ? Everybody knows that the only people who don't want to be on a picture are the ones who know that they are fat and ugly, that's the only true reason for anyone to refuse a photograph."

Actually, most pictures that are taken of you every day you don't consent to. Think about security cameras and traffic cameras, they record and capture your every move for the safety and good of people around you. This addon js the same thing, its recording your dps for the good of the people around you and therefore should not require one's consent.

coolmodi

Zorrashi wrote: »

What part of preference is so foreign to you?

The part where you put your preference (that just makes no sense) over that of the rest of the group having fun in this game.
"I, a complete stranger, prefer you to trust me on not ruining your day (or at least dungeon) and don't want to show you if I contribute anything towards the group, this is more important than you having fun!"

You play with other humans, they want to have fun and "win", why should you be able to ruin that without them beeing able to do something about it?*

If you don't plan on doing that, or run with people you know or your guild, then you won't have a problem. At least if you don't just abuse them since forever and can't anymore with this addon.

*: But that's not even what this addon is for, it's more a tool for helping others and yourself get better, but that was discussed enough already.

Grunim wrote: »

I'm curious, are there ways to look at other useful things people do for groups such as how many mobs were CC'd and for how long? Or looks at debuffs placed on enemies or buffs placed on the group? Tools that show things like that could be interesting

@Grunim Foreign debuffs don't work I think.
CC may work by looking for when a CC ability was used, that's possible, don't know if CC breaking is reportet though, but that would be interesting to look into.
Also the use of buffs like "Combat Prayer" MAY be able to get tracked too by looking at who was hit by the skill, but tracking the buff duration or anything, probably not.

If ZOS decides to remove the possibility to track other again, well, back to guessing and hoping anyways

omfgitsbatman

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

omfgitsbatman wrote: »

It's definitely more fun when you join a vet dungeon group and are actually able to complete it. I have definitely been in groups that will sit there and bang their head against the wall again and again and then get angry and turn on each other.
I gave gotten into groups on my tank where at V16 the total dps was roughly 7k combined and mine was 2.5k as the tank. The healer was 2k. If you do the math on that, you'll realize that the 2 dps were pulling a combined total of 2.5k dps. This could not out dps the healing on veteran elder hollow's Bogdan. We spent 10 minutes per attempt to only wipe while the boss was at 98%. There was nothing fun about this at all. The healer got mad, and chewed the dps out, then rage quit (he did nit have GroupDamage). I stayed behind, offered them tips based on numbers I was seeing. They were not running addons and never even considered that they were hindering the groups that they joined.
Now they changed their builds up a bit and are actually capable of beating content. I'd say that's way more fun than the alternative of having every group you join get angry with you, quitting, and never being able to finish a gold pledge.

Are you sure you aren't exaggerating a bit ? I don't know if it is even possible to pull under 2K DPS. People should do more than this using only light attacks.
Are you also sure these players were VR16 ? Because you have to level somehow in this game, and even if the leveling content is very easy, I'm not sure it is doable with such low DPS.
Exaggerated or not, this is an extreme, obviously rare case, and you don't need any addon to identify such low DPS anyway. Those players do not need an addon either to know that they have low DPS. And yes of course it's not fun to run in such conditions, but it's very rare and obviously beyond the "help" of any addon.

I was referring to the majority of players who run with 7-14K DPS and imho it's more fun to run with them than with 20-25K DPS players. I don't deny any group the right to aim for 25K each or more, I just don't want it to be the milestone for "good gaming".


.

I did not exaggerate at all. I was out dpsing the 2 dps combined while doing nothing but spamming puncture. You should absolutely be able to do more damage than this with light attacks... however, many, many people don't know weaving or animation canceling is a thing. And when you are running with a Templar in light armor with a bow, spamming breath of life and blazing shield while calling himself a dps this is a very real thing.
The problem is that it isn't rare. I do pugs quite frequently where the dps just cannot break 3-4k. This is way more common than you seem to think.
This is not beyond the help of any addon. Without this addon, I would not have known if it was one or both dps that were not pulling their weight. I would not have been able to effectively help them. When I can tell them that the tank is out dosing both of them combined and give them hard facts, and tell them what an average dps is pulling these days, it makes people way more receptive to help.
In the case I stated earlier, I now run frequently with the 2 dps that I helped using this addon. The change is unbelievable. They both run the addon now too.

You say the majority of people do 7-14k dps... this is absolutely and terribly wrong and way elitist of you to say. Maybe you have really good luck in pug groups, but the majority of the player base, unless they receive help from a more experienced player will not even come close to this. The learning curve is very steep in this game. This addon is such a useful tool in the aid of newer inexperienced players.
I have done every bit of pve content in this game. I have been number 1 on all of the trials leaderboards many many times. I can pull more dps while healing than about 95% of dps. I can say all of this and still call you elitist with a straight face. If you believe that everyone can figure out all of the finer points of this game without help, and your say that my helping is forcing people to conform... I can't even begin to sum up what a poisonous attitude this is.
I can't even begin to tell you how many people I have taught how to play the game. I don't force people to play one build. I ask them what they want to do and I tell them the most effective way to do this. If they want to pull the highest dps that they possibly can, I can lead them that way. If they want to run more support, I tell them how they can be effective while doing that.
I am telling you straight up that this addon will be used for way more good than evil.

Mythk

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

- What you call "helping people" is actually forcing / encouraging them to conform to your playstyle, a playstyle that is entirely oriented towards max DPS (not required by the game), which in turn will lead to more people running exactly the same build and the same rotation. Which in turn will lead to people getting bored and leaving the game. People like you kill the diversity the game is offering.

- No, I haven't said that. What I say is it is more fun, more social, more pleasant to organize a dungeon or raid run with people with different playstyles and builds and abilities (not all max DPS oriented) rather than selecting people for their uniform, identical DPS-oriented min/maxed builds. It also makes such groups play WITH the dungeon mechanics instead of bypassing them. And it makes each run different (therefore not boring) while max-DPS-only runs are all strictly identical. Restricting "being good" to "pulling more DPS" is a narrow-minded view that needs to be countered because it kills the game by killing its diversity. Of course, each group is free to play as they please, including max-burst-DPS, in which case this addon will be good for them, but it should be optional and not advertised as the only good way to play.

- I don't know what was behind the "snip" but resorting to cursing or insults only shows a lack of argumentation imho.

.

I'm fairly certain you are just trolling at this point to be quite honest, it's just a shame that you trolling could perhaps get something very beneficial to the game ruined.

You fail to see that having "decent" DPS is quite different from running "max" DPS. "Decent" DPS will be pulling anywhere from 9-11k+, something that is quite manageable if you give players you run with some build advice. On my full heal spec templar I can pull roughly 12k or so DPS, and this has out damaged the other DPS in my group in quite a few instances where I joined a group from zone. That is easily remediable and chances are your DPS will thank you for taking the time to help.

I don't recall once mentioning that I would make players conform to "max DPS" playstyle, I have only ever mentioned helping other players to improve at what they are doing (because if you're max rank and playing this game then I can logically assume you have some intentions of improving at it). You seem to be against helping other players.

And as for resulting to cursing or insults showing a lack of argumentation? Sorry that I see parasitic players for what they are. A doctor doesn't run an MRI scan on someone, see a problem in their patient, and then proceed to tell them that everything is fine.

coolmodi

omfgitsbatman wrote: »

This is not beyond the help of any addon. Without this addon, I would not have known if it was one or both dps that were not pulling their weight. I would not have been able to effectively help them. When I can tell them that the tank is out dosing both of them combined and give them hard facts, and tell them what an average dps is pulling these days, it makes people way more receptive to help.
In the case I stated earlier, I now run frequently with the 2 dps that I helped using this addon. The change is unbelievable. They both run the addon now too.

Mythk wrote: »

You fail to see that having "decent" DPS is quite different from running "max" DPS. "Decent" DPS will be pulling anywhere from 9-11k+, something that is quite manageable if you give players you run with some build advice. On my full heal spec templar I can pull roughly 12k or so DPS, and this has out damaged the other DPS in my group in quite a few instances where I joined a group from zone. That is easily remediable and chances are your DPS will thank you for taking the time to help.

This is why I said I'd trust this community to do way more good than bad with an addon like that. I refuse to belive the number of people abusing it to insult or kick players for no good reason is anywhere close to the number of people using it to help, whether it is themselfs or others.

The number of people abusing the old situation to be lazy without others beeing able to find out is probably not small either. And it was possible to find out before, just that it was much more complicated, and people could lie and therefore make others, even if innocent, the targets. That shouldn't be ignored too. It built up mistrust and made it impossible to stay together as a group, even if only 1 out of 4 was the problem, that maybe even could get helped.

Also just having a few stupid bars from the addon adds some competition to boring repeated dungeon grinding, and humans are very competitive by nature. Just trying to be #1 was a big part of what made WoW dungeons fun for me at least.

timidobserver

Dymence wrote: »

Function wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Just wanted to jump in here and say this addon is rubbish.

The API is still closed and the numbers displayed by this addon are more often than not extremely incorrect.

Use at own risk...

Its actually very accurate from all the tests I have done, I think you just overlooked the fact that it is a group damage meter that will begin a parse when anyone in your group attacks unlike a personal DPS meter like FTC that only starts when you attack yourself. Also GroupDamage waits a few seconds at the end of a fight to make sure it is over before ending the parse which usually lowers your DPS number a bit.

Then explain my above post, how can a result deviate by a million damage?

These are just my personal experiences with this addon and as such I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. If it would work correctly that would be one thing, but that seems to be a rare occurence.

In my eyes this addon is like poison, and looking at this thread it only confirms that much for me. Everyone just blindly put their trust in the data provided by the addon even if it can be largely incorrect. The only thing this does is lead to misunderstandings/stress/hate between people where it is absolutely unnecessary.

As stated by previous posters, you don't need a group DPS addon to find out if someone's DPS is bad or not. You'll realize that by yourself by how slow the fights are going.

It definitely isn't blind trust. Most people have compared it at some point and are aware that the total damage is mostly accurate and the damage per second is off due to start time differences between addons.

Though honestly the accuracy of the addon is irrelevant. An addon doesn't have to function correctly in order to be allowed to exist. If that were the case we would have to go delete 70% of them. This addon shouldn't be held to the standard of being flawless if others aren't. The only thing that matters is whether ZOS wants this to remain data available.